In S.F., Dean calls GOP 'a white Christian party'

[ruggerson]

Truth hurts, don't it?

----------------------

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/06/07/MNdean07.TMP

<snip>


Tuesday, June 7, 2005


Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean, unapologetic in the face of recent criticism that he has been too tough on his political opposition, said in San Francisco this week that Republicans are "a pretty monolithic party. They all behave the same. They all look the same. It's pretty much a white Christian party."

"The Republicans are not very friendly to different kinds of people," Dean said Monday, responding to a question about diversity during a forum with minority leaders and journalists. "We're more welcoming to different folks, because that's the type of people we are. But that's not enough. We do have deliver on things: jobs and housing and business opportunities."

The comments are another example of why the former Vermont governor, who remains popular with the party's grassroots, has been a lightning rod for criticism since being elected to head the Democratic National Committee last February. His comments last week that Republicans "never made an honest living in their lives," which he later clarified to say Republican "leaders," were disavowed by leading Democrats including Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson.

Dean was outspoken -- as usual -- as he trolled California this week, stoking his party's coffers, and meeting with grass-roots activists. His San Francisco visit was at the tail end of a cross-country road trip, and Dean said that he will continue to pound the pavement -- and the GOP -- to get the Democratic message across to new voters, particularly in minority communities.

<snip>

[TahitiNut]

1. It's more like a WASP's nest.

:shrug:

[struggle4progress]

116. It's more like "Night of the Living Dead." eom

[EFerrari]

127. LOL!

Exactly.

:rofl:

[leftchick]

220. omg you are right....

I think this is sean hannity!

[Lindacooks]

213. I like that!!

Nice and visual phrase, short and sweet, and SO true.

[DoBotherMe]

278. Or the KKK (?)

For me, when I hear the reference that Chairman Dean has made about the republican image it's the KKK I see. D ; )

[TahitiNut]

286. Yep. Kross-burning KKKristians.

Same rhetoric, slightly different clothing.

[SammyBlue]

342. Yeah, but did you read Ken Mehlman's flippant responses?

Talk about a slimier jackhole than Ed Gillespie.

"I'm sure alot of folks at Bar Mitzvah's would be surprised. . ."

Hey, scumsucker. . .I had my Bar Mitzvah. You have little support in the Jewish community. I'd say 5 to 10 percent, if you're lucky, scumbag.

''We gotta get ourselves beyond this point where when we disagree about politics, we call the other guy names. . ."

Excuse me while I choke! You people in the GOP take name-calling to an art form. . .and why are you so hyper-sensitive.

Bullshit artist.

As Sean Hannity would say: "G-d. I hate these people!"

[ananda]

2. Wow!

Good for him!

I'd just add, the GOP is the party of cold, inhuman corporations who know how to exploit White Xtians and WX wannabe's.

Sue

[Maat]

3. I love Howard - and these remarks.

Go Howard!

[olddad56]

13. I think his statement was stupid.

It just opens the door for more unjust criticism of the entire democratic party and all liberals. His statements are too general and caustic. They won't play well and they will backfire. Nobody listens to that sort of rhetoric. I think he needs to increase his dosage of lithium just a shade.

[sendero]

19. The Repugs..

.... use these kinds of generalizations and attacks all the time.

Tell me how it's hurt them?

It's the hand-wringing, nuanced, milquetoast, pink tutu talk that doesn't work in today's America - are you paying any attention?

[Name removed]

188. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

223. Deleted message

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[tsuki]

193. The Republicans have used generalizations and attacks for

at least twenty years. They have used them so long that I sometimes wonder if the beltway Democrats don't themselves believe the Republican rhetoric; that the beltway Democrats have become apologists for being members of their own party; and like a pathetic CNN have become a Faux-FOX to bolster their own self-image.

For twenty years, I have seen the Democratic Party membership characterized as the "give-away party." The spend-spend-spend party. The "they will raise your taxes and give them to the welfare queens" party. The party of the lazy. The party of no work ethic. The party of "color," blacks, Hispanics, Semites. The party of perverts, (Hillary is a lesbian.) The anti-God party. No label has been avoided. No smear has been challenged.

The Democratic Leadership is of the Neville Chamberlain mold, "Peace in our time." Appeasement is the answer. Or maybe, "don't worry, be happy."

It is no wonder that we have lost the working poor. They would rather identify with the Republicans than they would the sad shell of a party that the Democrats have become.

Dean frightens the old men. He is the outsider. He is the political Churchill to their Chamberlain. They are afraid of the new energy, loss of the status quo, and populism, and in their fear, they attack, not the Republicans who have long had them cowed, but Dean who has refused the party dictates of appeasement.

It is going to be a long, bumpy ride, at long last.

[geckosfeet]

335. 100% + correct. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

Its time start slingin' that shit back in their faces. Let them waste time calling Dean a mudslinger wahh wahh wahh etc etc. He is supposed to say what the candidates can't.

We will have candidates, and if they decide to elaborate, tone down, amplify Deans statements then thats their prerogative. Deans job is help the candidates do their job.

I think part of the strategy at this time is to feel out the messages that will work and polish them up for 2006.

[lakeguy]

206. right on brother!

[renaissanceguy]

281. Couldn't have put it better myself.

Dean speaks the truth. It's time the public hears it, even if it is painful.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.14744291

[Pacifist Patriot]

26. Nobody listens to that sort of rhetoric?

What the hell do you think has propelled the Republicans into the position that they enjoy?

Besides Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia that is.

Man is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. He comes on strong he's too hotheaded. He comes on soft he's too weak. No way he's going to please everyone. I'd rather see him put the Republicans on the defensive. Let them try to worm their way out of the generalizations.

[olddad56]

172. How did he put them on the defensive?

When have the fascists ever defended any allegation made against them. All he did was provide fodder for the government controlled media to use to attack the Democratic party.

It isn't about words, it is about action. It is about raising the consciousness of the American public that are voting for Bush but they don't know why. It isn't about some perceived outlandish statement that Howard Dean made, it is about you and I having the balls to call a fascist a fascist. It is about you and I being willing to risk our so called personal freedom to take a stand. Or, maybe it is about all of us pretending that Howard Dean making a statement worthy of a republican is all we need. Why don't we all just roll over and play dead.

[Name removed]

204. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kralizec]

36. This is war now. Dean's shaking things up and that's what's been needed

FOR AGES!!!!

I'm tired of soft democrats and liberals. The time to take the gloves off was long ago!

[Total Disaster]

343. Hold no punches!!! Go Howard Go!!!!! n/t

[Canuckistanian]

43. Well, let them prove the statement is false, then

Tell them to show you all the non-white, non-Christian Republicans.
That'd be a pretty small group.

[stopbush]

60. Right on! I'm sure that *, Frist, Brownback, DeLay, Cheney, Hastert,

Lott, Hannity, Coulter, Crosby, and all of the other non-non-white Rs are living proof that most Rs aren't white Xtians...or...er...ah...

Never mind.

[olddad56]

192. let them prove the statement is false...right

they don't have to prove anything. They don't have to defend anything. They own the media, they own the puppet in the white house, they own the senate, they own the house, they own the federal court systems, they own the voting machines and they own all of the minds that think what they are told to think (this would include the Christan's). The fascists don't have to prove anything, they have all of the power. All they have to do is keep alive the illusion that democracy still exists, and the bogus threat that the terrorists are gonna get us all and they have the power to steal your life.

[ClintonTyree]

336. So why not....

rattle their cages a little? It's true, the Slugs DO control most of what we call America. However, unless someone speaks up and starts poking these pricks with a stick, they'll continue to do so unabated.
Right now the Democratic Party has nothing to lose, so why not try a different tack? :shrug: We've been trying to "play nice" for so many years we've forgotten how to fight back. Sometimes you're going to get a black eye in a fight, sometimes you're going to GIVE someone a black eye. That's the nature of the fight.
Howard Dean is the right person to stir up the hornet's nest and get Democrats blood pumping again. Sure, some of the things he says may be too critical, general or off the wall for some people's tastes, but at least he has the Democrats excited again. The days of being nice, quiet acquiescing Democrats is OVER! :woohoo: I, for one, couldn't be happier that Howard is running around the nation stirring things up. GO HOWARD! :yourock:
He's got the reslugs pegged pretty good as well. They're all white, pseudo-christian boils on the ass of the nation that want to return the country to pre-civil war era America. Piss on them.

[99Pancakes]

361. Look at how well covered his remarks were.

The MSM is following Dean and talking about him. He's in the papers and on the nightly news. That's good. However, now he needs to capitalize on that. His comments are too broad (many Hispanics voted for *) and could be damaging for us. Dean might take lessons from John Edwards--he was positive and stayed on message without wildly lashing out.

[Firenze777]

270. At the Republican convention last fall

one lady who was not white, but placed in a front row, exclaimed to a tv reporter that she couldn't believe she got such a good seat! We all saw through their blatent 'strategery'

[rfranklin]

313. The Black Republicans convention could be held...

in an elevator. So piss off Republicans!

[stickdog]

46. You're right. Just like nobody equates liberals with commies.

Yep, Repukes have really paid the price for unjustly vilifying liberals for the last 20 years, haven't they? :sarcasm:

[Baclava]

58. He's not running on a ticket... he can say whatever the hell he pleases...

This isn't a race...it's a war.

[understandinglife]

106. "This isn't a race...it's a war." Thank you for that statement!!

Wonderfully cogent!!

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[bunkerbuster1]

253. It's a race war!

and that boy Dean, he a RACE TRAITOR!

</klanboy>

[CAcyclist]

59. What part of his statement wasn't true?

It IS a white Christian party. I'd go further and characterize it as a white male Christian party.

When the Republicans insist that we create quotas for their party in the news, in panels, etc., then we should ask why we should give affirmative action to the tired old white male point of view.

[Bluebear]

88. Further, white male heterosexual Christian party

Screw this "attracting moderates" bullshit already, he is speaking the truth even though it hurts.

[LiberallyInclined]

113. but that's not true- many of them are closeted homosexuals

nt

[digno dave]

168. Is this Dean's way of being a uniter and not a divider?

Must have gone to the Unity School of Bush. What does he propose we do, kill all the white republicans like Bush plans on killing all the homosexuals? Is that progress?

[July]

219. I don't think he ever claimed that role.

That would be Bush, who has failed miserably at it.

[October]

239. I think he's trying to unite the Democratic Party...eom

[Raksha]

323. I don't WANT him to be a uniter, dammit!

It's US vs. THEM, and it's always been US vs THEM!!! I'd like to see US winning for a change, and we're NOT going to do it by playing nice!!!

[marmar]

290. Soooo true

That trying to play the center, don't offend anybody, moderate bullshit hasn't worked for years. Yes, Clinton was in the center but he defended himself when he needed to. Dean is giving the party what it needs - an identity, a personality and some cajones.

:headbang:

[CAcyclist]

293. Yikes, I forgot one!

Thanks, Bluebear!

[jokerman93]

306. you mean...

You mean "white male mostly-in-the-closet cristian party". Right?

[DSperoRN]

353. I wish he had said "pseudo-Christian."

The fascists' base has pretty much shrunk to the hard right Evangelicals. But that's 30-40% of the people, and they're armed, and they vote.
I would like to win some of them over or split them up. Don't want to be seen as attacking Christianity, just the far-right, Armageddon-promoting version of it.

[Bake]

196. Well, first of all, the Pukes AREN'T Christian.

Pardon me for quibbling.

Bake

[Pacifist Patriot]

236. Regardless of fact...

most of them identify themselves as such. That, I believe, is the point he was making.

[forgethell]

264. Isn't that for God to judge n/t

[Barak And Roll]

346. Right, they aren't Christians...

But when Dean says stuff like this, it adds legitimacy to the right's bullshit claim that they're the "Christian party." They want their radical version of Christianity to be the only version of Christianity and we just helped them. We shouldn't be singling them out as Christians, instead we need to be talking about how un-Christian they really are.

[Straight Shooter]

79. Humph!

All I've got to say is:

[EFerrari]

117. Nope. It's just what the doctor ordered and we're ALL listening

to him.

Too general? LOL! He's just a tad more specific than the Dim Son claiming we're spreading FREEDOM with depleted uranium.

He's the Replicants' worst nightmare.

:)

[Malikshah]

129. They've been listening for years--waiting for someone from the Dems

to get a spine and give back as good as they've gotten from the slime that is the RNC.

The world is different. Rolling over doesn't work anymore.

[TheDebbieDee]

138. We need to STOP being politeness to these thugs.......

Our continued displays of class have been mistaken for weakness by these murderous, war-making pieces of shit.

It's not as if the repugs weren't going to accuse Howard Dean of being insane anyway. They've already branded us as the "lunatic fringe" and they've turned the word "liberal" into a slur.

Howard, keep doing what you're doing. You make me proud!

[Occulus]

147. kinda like how Republicans' statements about gays backfire, right? n/t

[Teaser]

160. Whatevah.

yawn.

[yurbud]

171. how have general, caustic comments been working for right for decades?

That kind of blunt talk has been one of the keys to their success.

[olddad56]

174. simple, they own the media.

How did Clinton get impeached because he lied about a blow job, but Bush gets away with illegally invading an oil rich country and slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent people. Do you think Bush would get impeached for getting a blow job. Not even if it were from Condi Rice would he ever get impeached. It wouldn't even make the headlines.

[yurbud]

214. yep--but they sell it by speaking in plain language

[MadisonProgressive]

287. I'm sure Condi give's him a daily blowjob.

How else do you explain her meteoric rise to Secretary of State of the United States of Am'urka ??

[confludemocrat]

198. I don't hear you refuting the truth of this "general" statement

Nobody listens to this type of rhetoric? I think that anyone who is, as you should be, disturbed by its accuracy might better find another thing to say than what you did here.

We should gloss that over and "find something else to talk about" than the central white supremacy implicit in the Republican Party?

Dean is heroic in this instance. Wake up. This is not an ordinary time.

[Bucky]

215. Sadly, I agree. He's really taking this "loose cannon" routine to heart

I'd like to see us elevate the debate against the Republicans. Dean is just dumbing us down to their level and I don't think it helps.

Clinton was right--when the debate turns to matters of substance, we win. When assclowns distract us from the issues of the day with their assclownery, Republicans get the upper hand. Maybe Dean thinks that by acting like this he can beat them at their own game. Or maybe he's just a crass person. But I don't like it.

I've met gay, black, brown, and Jewish Republicans. Their views on politics and economics are whack, but for the most part they're basically decent, non-bigoted people.

[ClintonTyree]

338. What good has elevating the debate done?

Al Gore elevated the debate.....and lost. John Kerry elevated the debate....and lost. Perhaps it's time for a new tack? :shrug:
The American public WANTS the debate dumbed down, the American public, for lack of a better word, is DUMB! They don't WANT to be confused with too many facts. Here's what a a typical American thinks before he/she votes; flag, America, god....GOOD. Terra', foreigners, intellectuals....BAD! And there you have it, the reason the slugs have been cleaning our clock for the last three decades or so. The Slugs appeal to their BASEST instincts, and it works!
I'm for giving Howard the benefit of the doubt here. We have to try something, ANYTHING other than what we've been doing. What we've been doing hasn't worked. Sure, we have the upper hand when it comes to intellectual debate, but it's not plausible in today's society. America is just plain dumb and getting dumber by the minute. :silly:

[hnsez]

217. Kerrys statements while less caustic are general, confusing and exhausting

[leesa]

228. I think it's just fine. We don't need any more lily-livered, mealy mouthed

accomodating Dems running around. Being meek and passive doesn't work, or haven't you noticed.

[MadisonProgressive]

289. Totally agree

We need to give the pukes a hard kick in the balls at every opportunity.

[Lerkfish]

233. Ann Coulter, Rush limbaugh, Frist and Delay..

all say much, much worse things that are untrue. they even avocate executing judges.

why the outrage over the truth? If the shoe fits, and frankly, this shoe fits very well.

I'm a white christian myself, so I chafe at the association, but that does not mean it is untrue. (not for me, of course)

[October]

245. Dean's just holding up the mirror

The republicans have been defining who the Democrats are for far too long, and we've spent about 30 years defending ourselves.

It's ridiculous. They set every agenda.

It's "pro-life," not "pro-fetus" because they named it.

It's "pro-abortion," not "pro-choice," because they named it.

It's "War on Terror" not an "invasion" because they named it.

It's "Tax Incentives" not "How to decimate the middle class" because they named it.

It's "death tax" not "estate tax."

And on, and on....we should start a thread...

[CottonBear]

291. We Democrats listen to Dean's "rhetoric." He speaks the truth.

Are you suggesting that Howard Dean has Bi-Polar disorder? How could you possibly suggest such a thing?

Let "them" (the Republicans and the MSM) criticize us. They criticize because he is speaking truth to power. They cannot supress the truth.

[BobF]

312. Ever hear of "Good Cop, Bad Cop"?

Dean is the "Bad Cop". He gets to speak the Honest Truth, get people buzzing, frame the debate, and generally rile things up.

Our congressional (and eventually presidential) candidates can play the role of the "Good Cop"...acting more 'civilized', but already at an advantage because the topic of Pug abuses has been clearly voiced by Doc Dean.

So the Good Cops get to say something along the lines of "Well, maybe Chairman Dean went a little too far in saying what he did, but people DO tend to vote against their own self-interests when they vote Republican".

Result: We get the Truth out, and get to look 'moderate' (read: electable) in the process.

It's a move worthy of KKKarl, but with Laudable motives.

Well Done, Doctor Dean!

[Beaverhausen]

321. What part of his statement is wrong? He should have added "Male"

He should have added that the Repubs are "white, Christian and MALE"

They aren't too keen on letting women keep their rights.

[Gronk Groks]

339. Lush Limbaugh uses blanket attacks all the time...

...and nobody says anything. It is time to STOP being Mr Nice Guy and get down to mud wrestling. We HAVE been politically correct too long and the 'Pugs have kicked our asses royally!!:rant:

[saskatoon]

345. to "old Dad 56"

This from Old(ER) Mom 87. We need to tell it like it is and let the chips fall where they may. Quit the pussyfooting around and call the Bastards what they are pure and simple. What do you want to do? act like pussyfooting Kerry who lost us the election. I sent that guy $250. when my Soc Sec is $606. a month and a small savings account.

[FighttheFuture]

352. Perhaps you should follow your own medical advice....

It seems that many people here, and elsewhere are listening and cheering Dean onward!! Let's see who's criticizing him:

o Repugligans
o Repuglican-Lites
o John Edwards, who came out backtracking, fast! See: http://blog.oneamericacommittee.com/article.pl?sid=05/06/06/2117240§ion=&mode=nested&tid=1
o Milquetoasts, such as you!

I ain't worried!!

Give 'em hell Howard!!!

[merwin]

16. He should have become president

[ValentinoM]

123. Good for Dean.. I hope he will be our candidate in 2008

.. or even Gore.. I love Hillary, but she can't win any more than Kerry could.. Both carry too much luggage going into the election.

[Dangerously Amused]

317. Hmmm...

Who knows that Dean WASN'T our candidate in 2004?

Were any of the relevant primaries done on Diebold machines...?

Did the Bush campaign get Kerry because they WANTED Kerry?

I've often wondered.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

4. Someone had to say it

Dr. Dean :yourock:

[bloom]

5. Just like the (Republican) caller to Cspan

who said that the Christian right wants things done a certain way - and Bush accomodates them.

Esp. with judges, etc.

[jody]

6. The problem is that not all white-Christians are Repugs, many are Dems.

Dean's loose tongue may please some but I wonder if he offends more?

There are other phrases that he could use such as "narrow-minded, fundamentalists who pretend to practice the teachings of Jesus while hating their brothers and sisters"

[ruggerson]

10. He didn't say all White Christians are Repubs

he said MOST Repubs are white christians.

Which is utterly and totally true.

Don't buy into the media spin. Dean told the truth.

[jody]

12. Quote "It's pretty much a white Christian party." n/t

[ruggerson]

17. Exactly

He didn't say it's *THE* white, christian party. He said it's *A* white, Christian party. Meaning that it's membership is monolithic and not diverse.

In other words, they are the party of one brand of American while we are striving to be the party of EVERY brand of American (including, I might add, white Christians).

[jody]

62. Instead of defending Dean, look at how statements from his powerful

position may harm our party.

Obviously we disagree. :hi:

[Eloriel]

85. He can't harm our party

It's so fucking down and out that the gutter is UP.

There's nothing he can do to "harm" the party except perhaps if he chose to follow McAuliffe's game plan and/or make nice with the DLC.

[jody]

86. Sadly I believe you may be correct. n/t

[neuvocat]

137. That's for sure.

The dems have done far worse with the likes of Daschle and Gephardt.

[Pacifist Patriot]

238. Hey!

Kill the pessimism, there's an optimist in the room.

;)

[pennylane100]

100. How could it harm our party?

Could Dean risk losing the house, the senate, the white house, the supreme court. No, we already did that without his help. What more harm is there to be done to our party.

[anitar1]

115. Why don't you write and see if he will apologize to the Pugs.?

It is time someone spoke up and shoveled it right back to them. We have been reviled and lied about long enough.

[jody]

122. Apologies not required and certainly not to the pugs. Dean should be

more considerate of white-Christian independent voters because we need them to elect a president and control congress.

[Name removed]

161. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JNelson6563]

222. OMG!!! Dean's stating the obvious!!!

We're doomed!! :scared:


Oy!

Julie

[Bake]

197. That's too fine a point. The public won't get it.

And it just feeds the Puke spin. It was a stupid thing to say.

Bake

[Rainscents]

190. Maybe you should listen to Mike Malloy... he also said same thing

as Dean did... Most Republicans Christans are white! Truth must be told and Dean is telling the truth!

[amandabeech]

11. Isn't Dean himself a white, WASPish, lapsed Episcopalian?

White--kettle--black.

You have much better wording, Jody.


From a white, WASPish, lapsed Methodist Democrat.

[AspenRose]

108. Ah, but his wife is Jewish

Democrats ARE more tolerant and accepting (even though we do argue more among ourselves because we value diversity of opinion). Even his personal life reflects that.

[amandabeech]

139. Agreed. We're much more open-minded.

n/t

[okieinpain]

22. your joking right, you want him to say "narrow-minded

fundamentalists who pretend to practice the teachings of Jesus while hating their brothers and sisters", instead of "white christian party".

you've got to be kidding. please tell me you're joking.

[jody]

65. I'm not joking, are you? n/t

[anarchy1999]

165. I like how you bring up the teachings of Jesus

It's interesting, don't you think, that many Demos think of the teachings of Jesus, when considering how to treat all Americans ("Love thy neighbor") but are averse to actually hanging out with "Christians".

When the word "Christian" comes up, we think Repug. And hypocrite.

Jesus would be ashamed.

[July]

221. Dean doesn't say anything about being averse to hanging out with

Christians. And I think most "Demos" here hang out with plenty of Christians, especially given that there are more Christians than adherents of other religions in this country.

I didn't read anything that I think Jesus would be ashamed of. IMO, he would be ashamed of the perversion of his message that Republican Christians (not all of them, of course) offer, as well as the use of religion BY REPUBLICANS for political gain.

[okieinpain]

229. yes he would be ashamed the way people use his name. but

that is what they have done. they never solve anything just bitch about what they don't like.

[FredStembottom]

242. How can one "not hang out with Christians"?

It's impossible in this country!

[Pacifist Patriot]

You're looking at it backwards.

He didn't say white Christian is Republican he said Republican is white Christian. Big difference!

[jody]

70. I'm not looking at it backwards. You fail to see the full implications

of his remark. :shrug:

[Pacifist Patriot]

234. Nope. I see them.

I just don't find them as alarming as you do. I still think you are misinterpreting his remark. He is not saying A=B. He is saying B includes mostly A and very little C.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jody]

75. Now you know I didn't say that. Please read very slowly my statement

before you jump to the wrong conclusion.

[ruggerson]

78. And please read Dr. Dean's statement

very carefully before you jump to the wrong conclusion.

;)

[jody]

87. I read it and I believe he spoke carelessly. Obviously we disagree. n/t

[stickdog]

99. I repeat, what exactly are you afraid of here?

[jody]

109. I'm not afraid of anything. I do want my party back in control

in Washington and that means understanding the needs and expectations of the fifteen percent or so of independent voters that we need.

I don't care whether you like or dislike Dean's comments but I do care whether Dean attracts or alienates independent voters.

Clinton would never have made the statement about "white Christians" that Dean made.

[stickdog]

151. Dean didn't make a statement about white Christians, he made an undeniably

true statement about the demographics of the Republican Party.

So, again, what are you afraid of? That Dean "let the cat out of the bag " that the Democratic party is more diverse than the Republican party? Do you really think that the white Christians who are currently voting Democratic don't realize as much? Do you really think Dems need to cater to white Christians who think diversity is bad?

I must admit that I don't remember Clinton saying all that much to alienate bigots, but that didn't seem to stop the bigots from making Bill & Hill their mortal enemies to the point of impeachment, now did it?

[jody]

158. Dean said "It's pretty much a white Christian party." Clearly you are

wrong in saying "Dean didn't make a statement about white Christians".

Goodbye and have a nice evening. :hi:

[stickdog]

177. Obviously you don't understand basic grammar. The subject of that sentence

is the pronoun "it" which refers to the Republican Party. Hence the statement was about the Republican Party.

Let me give you another example to make this clear since this simple grammatical concept obviously baffles you. If I told you,

"My family is pretty much white Christians"

would I be making a statement about my family or about white Christians?

[Pastiche423]

175. Hey!

I'm one of those Independents and I'm loving what he's been saying.

Keep it up, Howie!

[Bake]

199. Just this:

That Howard will alienate the last remaining liberal/moderate Christians who vote Democratic but are tired of getting painted with the broad "fundie" brush that is so frickin' common here at DU.

If you think I'm wrong, go ahead and declare the Democratic Party the "Non-Christian/Atheist Party" and see how many elections you win. We don't need to ALIENATE our voters, we need to BRING THEM IN. What part of that DON'T you understand?

Bake

[jody]

311. "declare the Democratic Party the 'Non-Christian/Atheist Party'" or worse

declare it the "Non-white, non-Christian Party" and see how many elections we lose.

Thanks for pointing out the simple complement to Deans remark about the "white Christian party"

[ClintonTyree]

340. Repeat your sig line aloud to yourself....

and then read Dr. Deans comments again. If that isn't "the bell of truth" ringing, I don't know what is? Leon Russell and the Shelter People....one of my all time faves. I guess we just disagree on the gravity of his statement. I don't give it that much weight, but others might. Let's just agree to disagree. ;)

[Rainscents]

194. jody... I know many white Democrats and they're also

very well aware that most Christan Republicans are white and they themself brought this to my attention. So, I don't believe, Dean is offending any white Democrats... Maybe you and you only! You cannot speak for all other white democrats, because they don't feel same way as you.

[Tux]

318. Sheesh

He said most Reps are white Christians. He didn't say white Christians are Reps.

Not all Freemasons are Knights Templar but all Knights Templar are Freemasons. See the difference?

[many a good man]

7. Howard the Lightning Rod

for uncomfortable truths.

When lightning strikes in the dead of night, it illuminates.

[Warren Stupidity]

8. The DLC corporate whores

will be lining up again to join in with the MSM whores to attack Dean for his anti-christian remarks.

And we will see here, once again, a chorus of thoughtful misguided progressives saying "yes it is true, but he shouldn't have said it because ".

So Howard is a smart cookie. I say he is outing the whores in our midst. I agree. Lets find out exactly who is who.

[okieinpain]

24. hear, hear.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

56. The ultimate litmus test...

my little rant..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1836472&mesg_id=1836472


Call 'em out, and hold them accountable! MKJ

[Zhade]

68. Well, we definitely needs all whores, DLC and non, outed.

Then they can't get away with being corporatist sellouts quite so easliy.

I like to hear Dean making strong comments. At least SOMEONE'S doing it!

[Guaranteed]

181. That's a brilliant post. You're absolutely right.

We'll see.

[jillan]

9. Howard speaks the truth!

That's exactly what that party has become.

Except he should have called it a RICH, white, christian party:thumbsup:

[tnlefty]

29. Welcome to DU, pirhana! Like your sticker image.

I want a spay/neuter republican one. :hi:

[bunnyhugger]

324. that's my howard!

hillary has been pandering to the DARK SIDE lately, in an effort to become more middle-of-the-road........

we DESPERATELY NEED someone strong & ballsy and POSSIBLY OFFENSIVE to run in 08.

i agree with most on this thread-- WHAT IS IT ABOUT HIS REMARK ISN'T TRUE????

i am a white, (raised as/non-practicing) christian and i look at our senate hearings & think-- sometimes aloud-- "just look at that! they are all white, male and about to croak, and making life-altering decisions FOR ME & MY BODY.

GO HOWIE BABY!!!!!!! AND MAY WE BE SO LUCKY AS TO HAVE SOMEONE LIKE HIM RUNING THIS COUNTRY FOR 8 YEARS!!!!!!

[killbotfactory]

14. This statement will be edited by the press

Just like his "some republicans never worked an honest day in their lives" comment magically lost the "some" part so they could pretend he was talking about all republicans.

This time they will drop the "pretty much" and say Dean called the GOP an all white christian party.

[okieinpain]

25. they are an all white christian party.

[killbotfactory]

69. Except for the 1% of minority's

They constantly parade around whenever they can.

[PassingFair]

102. Don't forget the Bacardi Cubans

in Florida....

[MountainLaurel]

121. As someone pointed out on another thread

Most of those Miami Cubans are from the Bautista regime, and descend from the European overlords

[PassingFair]

140. That's why I referred to them as

"Bacardi" cubans.....

;-)

[MountainLaurel]

232. Aha

Thanks for providing my ticket to the clue train -- had to get up extra early yesterday and have been rather Terri Schiavo all day.

:hi:

[PassingFair]

337. Well, get it together, or

..I'll get all Galloway on your ass!

:bounce:

:toast:

[IndianaGreen]

155. Exactly, like the elites in Venezuela and other Latin countries

they are all white, and very proud of their European roots. Being proud is one thing, but they also look down on the vast majority of their compatriots who happen to be of color. One of the main reasons the Venezuelan elites hate Chavez is that he is of mixed race.

The European-blooded elites feel right at home when they rub shoulders with their American counterparts. It is a case of "we all look alike, so we all like each other" sort of thing.

[okieinpain]

230. is it even 1%, I can't wait until the hispanic's start demanding more

time on the stage. wonder how those diverse repug's are going to respond.

[Zorra]

15. Looks like the Doc is full on going for it. He has my full support.

There are an awful lot of non-voters that do not vote because they do not see much difference between DLC Dems and the GOP.

Howard Dean is trying to change that perception, to bring this party back to where it is most effective - at it's populist roots.

It will be interesting to see the Democratic Party in 2008 A.D. (After Dean)

[ninkasi]

53. I agree...

Besides, I look at it this way...for the past almost 5 years, we have bowed and scraped, trying oh, so hard to be the nice guys, the ones who were better than the Repukes...and now, all 3 branches of government are firmly in *'s grubby, greedy little paws.

If trying not to offend didn't work, and it didn't, then let's try what Dean is doing...telling the truth, and fighting back, and not worrying about what the Repukes think. They also criticized us when we were nice, and tried to work out compromises.

We know that none of that got us anywhere, so I want the Democratic Party to fight, and fight as hard as they can, to restore honest government, and look out for the citizens of our country.

Dr. Dean is not saying anything that isn't the truth. We've tried it the other way, and we've lost ground doing so. This time, let's tell the truth, fight back, and get our country back.

[bluedonkey]

18. Dean is doing

what the republiclones been doing for ages! They can say anything and get away with it and when others do the same they scream 'insult'!

Dr Dean is telling the truth! They all talk the same,look the same and have no lips and it is a white party.

[Eloriel]

97. With one MAJOR exception

They weren't telling the truth, nor were they honorable men (and women).
Dean is, on both counts.

[EFerrari]

134. finally

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

:party:

[bunnyhugger]

325. OMG!

where did you find that penguin thing?? i almost p*ssed myself laughing!

[question everything]

20. Saying that the Republican part in a monolithic

waspy is OK... saying that Republicans have never worked a day in their lives... is not OK.

In 1992 some rich Republicans from the most Conservative county - Orange, in California - openly supported Clinton. One of them was a developer. I once heard her talking and she was invited to the "club of 100" - those donors who gave $100K to the party - a large sum those days.

And the chairman of the party - Barbour, came to her with that smooth southern accent of his and ask: and who are you with, little lady? And she replied: I am with the Club 100...

Especially in California: as long as they insist on behaving like Neanderthals they will lose.

[Pacifist Patriot]

35. Except that working comment is not remotely what he said.

That's an expected cognitive development resulting from pisspoor reporting. You've spit back exactly what the spin machines want you to think he said.

[question everything]

152. OK, so what did he say? n/t

[Pacifist Patriot]

247. Try this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3794246

Transcript of Dean's Speech

http://www.ourfuture.org/docUploads/caf060205dean.pdf

[question everything]

296. Thanks for the link

Here is that paragraph:

"You -- (applause continues) -- you know, the idea that you have to wait on line for eight hours to cast your ballot in Florida -- there's something the matter with that. You think people can work all day and then pick up their kids at child care or wherever, and get home and then have a -- still manage to sandwich in an eight-hour vote? Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that, because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives. (Light applause.) But for ordinary working people, who have to work eight hours a day, they have kids, they got to get home to those kids, the idea of making them stand for eight hours to cast their ballot for democracy is wrong. We ought to
make voting easier to do. Mail -- Oregon has got it right. (Applause.)"

So he said that "a lot of them" never made an honest living in their lives.

I don't think that this is accurate. Many of the Republican voters, too many, are poor people who work from paycheck to paycheck, unskilled. Individuals who are not educated enough to be able to form their own opinions, who are influenced by their pastors and by Limbaugh blame someone "liberals!" "Hillary!" "feminazis!" for their failures.

[Pacifist Patriot]

302. Here's the distinction.

And granted it is a subtle one and something I've wanted to address in general for quite awhile. Within context I don't believe he was necessarily addressing Republican voters. Yes, he is talking about voting and disenfranchising Democrats but I believe he is speaking to the corruption that was the overall theme of his speech. In other words, Republicans in this context means Republican movers and shakers, office holders...not rank and file voters.

Location joke. I think you had to be there.

[medeak]

21. he should have said white christian EVANGELICAL party

there's a big difference.

[Iowa]

143. You nailed it medeak...

There IS a big difference. Dean has a way of being off the mark just enough to create a ton of blow-back. It is the "evangelicals" who define the Republicans - the smarmy, phony, Jerry Falwell/Pat Robertson types who make a mockery of Christianity. The Democratic party probably has as many "Christians" as the Republican party. And the Democratic party is the ONLY party that espouses Christian values (Bill Moyers being a shining example). If that's what Dean meant (and I suspect it is) that's what he should have said. Once again, he was off just a twist, but he was off enough to make himself the issue instead of the enemy.

Most here seem to think that Dean is a champion because he isn't afraid to insult Republicans. I agree. Most believe that the milquetoast, pansy, sissy, appeasement approach has been a dismal failure, and that Dean should be commended for attacking. I agree and I'd even go further; I think he should beat the living hell out of the enemy - bring the bas**rds down, pound them into mush, and bury their evil ideology under the slimy rock it crawled out from under. But what I hear only a few saying is that Dean should be held to a higher standard - when he makes inflammatory comments (which he absolutely should be doing!) he should get it right the first time, intensify the damage caused to the enemy, and minimize the blow-back. This is a war that must be won. We need a flawless execution.

[Teaser]

166. This isn't an inflammatory comment.

It is a demographic statement and is 100% accurate.

[medeak]

354. awe shucks

thanks for validating me.

[XemaSab]

23. I don't understand

how this is a remotely controversial statement.

Seems like a bald statement of fact to me.

Go Howard!!!!!

[jsw_81]

27. Glad I didn't vote for Dean

His wacky comments -- and there have been so many lately -- are hurting the party. This kind of stuff excites lefties in places like San Francisco and New York but moderates and others who might consider voting Democratic see them as arrogant and even insulting.

Combine his recent comments with his lousy fund-raising skills and I have a feeling that Dean will be out of a job sometime this summer.

[Pacifist Patriot]

34. Lousy fundraising skills, what have you been reading?

He's set records since taking over as chairman. Someone posted the exact numbers not two days ago.

It's comments like his that keep the pressure on and the dialogue going.

[Kralizec]

37. He's been reading right-wing news. They are the one's trying to

spread the word that his fund raising is lackluster. It's actually better than it was 4 years ago at the same time, after a Democratic presidential loss. It's that he's not getting the money from corporations anymore, or at least as much, and so they put out reports that he isn't doing well.

If you don't agree with what Dean is saying, you're just not paying attention.

[Pacifist Patriot]

38. I agree.

Sometimes Dean makes me cringe, but he ALWAYS makes me think. I have a nasty habit of being diplomatic but sometimes bluntness is required and this is one of those times.

[ruggerson]

39. I, for one, am tired of the arrogant demeaning remarks

made by supposed "regular folks" about people on the coasts, including New York and California.

Works both ways.

[Pacifist Patriot]

41. I hear you.

I can only take so many "what the f*** is wrong with Florida?" comments.

[Sivafae]

74. ^Amen to both of those!

I am tired of blanket statements about the people of this great country. But the Rupugs are so good with the double speak. Demo's are just not gonna go for the *nudge nudge* "states rights" talk. This is something I think the Demo's really need to expose about the repugs. That when they say so and so, they mean such and such.

[stickdog]

55. So you think we need Dean to be more like Lieberman?

You know, so as to not damage freeper sensibilities and all?

Better not to lose by too much than to fight to win, right?

[Don Claybrook]

89. His comments excited at least 2 people in Louisville, KY

Far, far from Berkeley.

Is there any time, in your estimation, that it's appropriate to stand up and call a spade a fucking spade? Or should we always just hope the Republicans are nice and throw us a bone once in awhile?

[bunnyhugger]

327. well put, don claybrook!! nt

[LizW]

141. More $ than any other Dem chairman in a non-presidential election year

ever. That lousy, you mean?

[FighttheFuture]

358. Really?!! Well, let them vote Republican, or stay home, then...

we can all see what is worse, "wacky comments" or a wacky country!!

In case you haven't caught on, we got our asses kicked, but good for the last to $elections. Stolen or not, the Dems in power let it happen!!! Time to try something new I say!

Dean is energizing the grass roots and the idealism of the Democratic party to what it once was. From this true rebirth will come. All the DLC and other pansy-ass milquetoast dems are doing is sucking us into a slow death.

Give 'em hell, Howard!!!

[wicket]

28. Keep on giving them hell Howard!!!!!!

Keep giving the Republicans the RED ASS!!!! :rofl: Oh man, Dean RULES :D

[Triana]

30. Keep Talkin Howard...

...'cause everytime the reichwingnuts get all flustered about your comments, the stupider they look. It really galls me that repukes can say ANYTHING and get away with it - no one makes a peep about their rediculous commentary on a daily basis.

But, when an outspoken Democrat (and there's the key word - they are pissy few and far between these days) says anything about anything, Repukes are OUTRAGED!

Well. GOOD FOR THEM. Let them stay outraged. I for one hope Dean keeps talking. I hope he keeps that passel of self-righteous chickenhawks in a bluster every minute of every day.

AT LEAST Howard Dean is NOT being ignored like McCauliff. He is being HEARD and as much as the pukes hate to admit it, he's being LISTENED to, as well.

[understandinglife]

31. Gov Dean, keep speaking the truth. Thank you; thank you!

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - We support Apian's goal of 10,000,000 signatures on Congressman Conyers letter by June 21, 2005; make it happen! http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/6/214643/6438

[Orangepeel]

32. why is that an insult? are they embarrassed by it?

[PretzelWarrior]

33. KEEP IT GOING, HOWIE!

you may just bring me back into the "contributing Democrat" fold. I have refused to give a DIME to the Democrats since Kerry folded like a cheap tent in the election.

[Erika]

40. Dean is doing beautiful - Each major dem has his/her role

and they are playing off each other beautifully while portraying the GOP's weak points and socking it to them. They are "framing" the message very competently.

More and more, I'm finding people who are regretting their decision to vote Republican.

[Gelliebeans]

42. Good

I hope this latest comment by Dr Dean "outs" another round of Democrats willing to eat their own for the DLC and that ilk.

I'm keeping my eyes wide open to those Dems willing to sell us out to the highest bidder. I don't care if they are running for squat if they think that by stepping on the chairman and his grassroot efforts are the way to go they need to think again.

[brentspeak]

44. This WAS a stupid thing for Dean to say

WHO is he trying to pull in with a comment like that? You think Joe Middle America, who's probably white and Christian, is going to feel like he belongs in the Democratic Party when the DNC chairman makes it sound as if there's something wrong to be white and Christian?

I liked it better when Dean just pointed out how the Republicans were ripping off and conning the American people. I liked his energy. But these deliberately controversial quotes of his, targeted directly at the middle American demographic, are the dumbest things he could possibly do.

[ruggerson]

49. No, you're not listening to what Dean is saying

you're only hearing the MSM static.

[brentspeak]

54. No, I am listening to what Dean is saying

He's a walking, talking backfiring quotation machine. The average American doesn't have time to pore over the fine details of articles covering politics. Rule Number One of Politics that Dean doesn't seem to understand: Never, EVER give your opponent ammunition. Rule Number Two: Never, ever cause division within your own ranks.

[stickdog]

64. Rule Number One: Say something short & sweet that gets attention.

Rule Number Two: Say it loudly and proudly over and over again until it changes the parameters of the debate.

Rule Number Three: Rinse & repeat.

You obviously haven't been watching how tough-talking, closed-ranks Repukes have steamrolled over weak-ass "don't say anything controversial" Dems.

[Sivafae]

84. No this is a smart thing to do. White people are not going to be the

majority for much longer. If can reach out to minorities (soon to be majority) by showing what haters the repugs are, then we will have a stronger party for it in the long run.

[Bluebear]

93. And that TERRIFIES Republicans

Why the sudden interest in recruiting peopl of color as their spokesmodels? They can do the math and know the white majority is passe.

[ruggerson]

76. He's getting more airplay than McAullife did

and firing up the base. That's EXACTLY what a Dem Chair is supposed to do.

You think past GOP Chairs didn't make caustic remarks demeaning Democrats, liberals and leftists?

He's finally fighting back after twenty years of the Repubs beating up on us.

[tsuki]

201. Since when has a Democrat ever "had" to give a Republican

ammunition? If they can't use the truth, they'll tell a lie. Did you catch the Hillary comment today? Heard any Republicans or Democrats objecting.

And please, do not tell me that OxyRush is not a Republican Party spokesperson. $25 million a year, all the drugs you want, and no consequences. That the rewards for taking the Republican talking points and spin-spin-spinning.

The Republicans see plausible deniability. I see a Republican Party script.

[More Than A Feeling]

329. Rule #1: Opponents will take ammunition whether you give it or not

So say what you mean and mean what you say, and you will never regret it.

[Erika]

52. The controversy is beautiful!

The people who voted for Bush don't represent mainstream America. They voted out of fear of terror, and the Christian white fanatics got out their voters.

The democrat senators represent a heck of a lot more citizens than do the GOP senators.

[stickdog]

61. So you think Joe Middle America hates any party that welcomes diversity?

[dissent1977]

63. But he wasn't attacking white Christians

he was attacking the lack of diversity in the Republican Party. He was saying that they only are able to see things through a single frame, whereas a party with more diversity is able to view the world from multiple perspectives and get a better view of what the people really look like.

[Don Claybrook]

92. No. Targeted at a San Francisco audience. n/t

[Malikshah]

132. MOTS speak doesn't work anymore

More
Of
The
Same


It's time for something new. the last 25 years' worth of strategy (i.e. rollover and take it) didn't work.

Howzabout a good ole dose of reality.

And if folks get their knickers in a twist and can't see what Dean said for what it was-- Reality-- then screw them.

[Massachusetts]

45. Whats the problem?

"a pretty monolithic party. They all behave the same. They all look the same. It's pretty much a white Christian party."

[the_spectator]

71. What's the problem? This is a LOSING strategy.

Smart Republican tactics: characterize the types of people in the opposition party as the "liberal elite": most people know they're not "elite", and those that are, being rich, tend to be Republican. So the average American thinks, yeah, those "Others", that "liberal elite", that's what the Democrats are about, I guess I'm a Republican.

Dean's tactical error: characterize the people in the opposition party as "White Christians." The U.S. is 75% white. The U.S. is 76% Christian. So the average American thinks, hey, if the head of the Democrats says that's what the Republicans are, maybe I'm a Republican too.

The thing about Democracy, is getting the most votes: you know, like "the majority"?

[jody]

82. Well said!

:thumbsup:

[Bluebear]

90. Yesterday the Gov. of Texas told gays to move out of his state

And he said it while signing a public piece of legislation in a Christian church. Screw this "strategy" already, time for calling it what it is.

[stickdog]

96. So is it whites who hate diversity or Christians?

Or is it just human nature to abhor diversity?

Futhermore, straight white Christians make up about 30% of our nation's voting age population. They just vote in far greater numbers than non-white non-Christians -- at least in part because Repukes keep throwing them red meat. You know, the kind of red meat that you don't want Dean throwing our base. I'd say that getting a larger portion of non-white, non-Christians to the polls to vote Democratic is a very good strategy. Wouldn't yoy agree?

[the_spectator]

107. IF "straight white Christians" made up about 30%, then you would be right

I doubt that figure though. 75% count as "white" according to the census, and 76% count as Christian. I could definitely accept that maybe 30% of our voters are straight white Christian MALES, another 30% would be SWC females, adding up to a majority of 60%.

How do you get that 30% figure total? It might be a 30% total with fundamentalists/evangelicals, but there are a lot of low-key Christians out there.

[stickdog]

135. In 2008, an estimated 70% of Americans will be white.

In 1995, 55% of Americans reported going to any church at least once a year (other than weddings and funerals).

http://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/services/index.html

I can't find the breakdown, but blacks and Latinos attend church a lot more than whites.

Even using your own numbers, you are talking about 56% of the population in 2000 and rapidly declining.

[ruggerson]

210. But that's the point

his statement won't offend "low key" christians, because they don't define themselves, be all and end all, as christians - they're also many other things in their lives.

His statement WILL offend the fundamentalists, and are we bothered by that? the statement was designed to rally the base, and indeed he is doing that. I doubt very much whether the broad middle spectrum pays attention to all this minuatuae. They WILL pay attention to whomever we nominate, and that person will get to play good cop and come across as very middle of the road.

Dean's strategy seems to be as the man to excite the base, raise funds and give Democrats back their spine. I'd say he's doing a great job so far.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

237. Totally agree

I love Howard Dean, and the "Republicans never worked a day in their lives" comment was a righteous dig. But this was a dumb thing to say. Speaking as a white, male, sububanite Christian, it sounds as though Dean thinks I'm in the wrong party. How am I supposed to go to my middle-of-the-road neighbors (who all look like me) and get them to vote Democratic, when there's the appearance that the top Democrat holds them in contempt?

That being said, I still think Dean is the best thing that's happened to the DNC in a very long time. Howard needs to keep talking, but he really, really needs to think a little more.

[NYCGirl]

260. BTW, Dean never said "Republicans never worked a day in their lives";

What he said was "lots of Republicans never made an honest living in their lives." There's a BIG difference in that statement.

[renaissanceguy]

282. Considering Dean is a white Christian himself...

I think any human being with a BRAIN would realize he means fundamentalist hypocrites/chauvanists.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/466053

[confludemocrat]

303. Here's the problem with your outlook

The Repubs are determinidely a white peoples party, integrating only those very few minorities who are thoroughly and perversely unrepresentative of most Americans and nearly every other member of their own minority group.

The Repubs then trumpet that tactic as furthering diversity and this goes unquestioned by the mainstream (nearly as white as the Repubs) media. The undiverse media then unquestioningly gives a ton of time and attention to such people while ignoring those who are representative of their own demographic. When Dean brings this related subject up it makes many white people uncomfortable. Too bad.

They the Repubs have made no attempts-- none--to act with any other approach than this. Someone should call them on it. And criticizing Dean for what we know is true is not good judgement.

This is less for me about tactics than truth telling. How about some of that for a change? And if you're raising money with truthtelling as he is doing then follow, lead in another direction or get out of the way all you fainthearted Demo naysayers.

[Democat]

363. Valid points

As much as I like having someone willing to fight, I don't expect Dean to last too much longer as head of the DNC if he keeps making comments like this.

He is supposed to be helping raise money. Who does he think donates to the Democratic party?

[bvar22]

47. This is a winning strategy!

Howard Dean and the Democrats need to JUST KEEP ATTACKING. It would be POWERFUL if the Democratic Party or even some members of our Party would publicly support him. The Doctor and the Democrats NEVER need to APOLOGIZE or BACKTRACK...Attack...Attack...Attack.....

If the Republicans or the CorpoMedia start whining...Attack some MORE.
If minor mistakes are made, the record can be corrected BY THE INDIVIDUAL WHO MADE THEM if HE/She so decides (NOT Biden, liberman, or the DLC)....but no apologies!!!

It is the Republicans who SHOULD be on the defensive EVERY FUCKING DAY!

John Kerry should have LAUGHED OUT LOUD at the Swift Boat Liars and called them a bunch of DISGUSTING LYING COWARDS NOT WORTHY OF HIS TIME (case closed)....and then DIRECTLY ATTACKED AWOL for NOT having the COURAGE to DO HIS PART!!!

GOOD on YOU Howard!!!!

WE need to keep sending messages of support to HIM from the grass roots that frightened the Establishment Dems into throwing us a bone. The MORE THEY try to undercut him, the MORE WE NEED to SUPPORT HIM, and the MORE we need to let the Establishment Dems know that we don't like it when they DIS the DOCTOR.

Howard SPEAKS FOR US!!!
YOU dis the Doctor; you DIS US!!!

[quaoar]

48. John 8:32

"and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

[Malva Zebrina]

51. SMILE nt

[gordianot]

57. I really think Howard Dean has found his calling as DNC.

He really needs to find a way to appeal to these White Christians while mantaining diversity. Not an easy task.

[Erika]

67. A lot of White Christians voted Dem

Like those who believe the GOP violated Christ's Golden Rule in his war policy and those who believe we should feed the needy and help all Americans, not just the upper crust.

[stickdog]

73. Here ya go

courtesy of http://www.grassrootdems.org/

[gordianot]

81. That's great I like that! Thanks

[Erika]

91. Yes, Lots of White & Black Christians voted Dem

Look at what Bush's war policy did to our kids and innocent Iraqis at www.icasualties.org

[gordianot]

157. I encountered two Iraqi veterans recently.

This occurred at our Boy Scout Troop (Yes I know Boy Scouts are not a popular subject on DU) but it does fit in somewhat with the faith based idea. One of our scouts Eagle Scout announced he was going to enlist soon. My son and I took him aside to try and talk him out of this idea (we know the family very well, they are also Democrats). Two of our new Scouts fathers had just returned from Iraq. They heard our discussion came over to join in. At first I was unsure what they were going to say. They spent the better part of an hour telling him why he did not need to enlist with graphic details of why Iraq is a mess what they had seen and experienced.

This young man has abandoned the idea of enlistment.

[brentspeak]

66. The only ones more pleased with Dean are the Freepers:

To: marblehead17

We need to convince the dems he is exactly what is needed to defeat the right.

3 posted on 06/07/2005 5:54:23 PM PDT by handy old one
............................................................
To: handy old one

So far, Dean has been the best thing for us.

4 posted on 06/07/2005 5:55:24 PM PDT by marblehead17
.............................................................
So glad the libs are blessed with this horse's butt.

5 posted on 06/07/2005 5:09:56 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
...........................................................
To: anniegetyourgun
Oh, me too. But I wonder... how long before complete knee-biters like Daily Kos, DU, etc. are claiming Dean is actually a Karl Rove plant? :-)
.................................................................
To: anniegetyourgun
So glad the libs are blessed with this horse's butt.

I think it is the GOP who is blessed.

But let's not tell the dims.
8 posted on 06/07/2005 5:14:39 PM PDT by South40
...................................................................
To: infoguy

Let's be nice to Dr.Dean. He's on our side he just doesn't know it.

13 posted on 06/07/2005 5:40:26 PM PDT by rodguy911
To: infoguy
..................................................................
Keep it up, Dean.

14 posted on 06/07/2005 5:41:16 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy
To: worldclass
...............................................................
God bless Howard Dean. He's doing to the Dems what our GOP leadership could only dream of possibly inflicting on them.

7 posted on 06/07/2005 8:15:03 AM PDT by TBarnett34
..................................................................
To: TBarnett34
It is my fervent hope that Howard Dean stays at the DNC helm for as long as possible. We couldn't ASK for a better Republican recruiting tool.

Thanks, Howie!!
13 posted on 06/07/2005 8:24:47 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic

[killbotfactory]

77. White christian freepers drool with glee

truth, it's what's for dinner

[stickdog]

80. Me thinks the freeps doth protest too much.

Of course they think diversity is a bad and unpopular thing and monolithic theocracy is irresistibly appealing. They're freeps, for Christ's sake!

[brentspeak]

83. What are they protesting?

They're glad Dean is DNC chair.

[stickdog]

104. Because they are freeps. It's called idiocy and/or false bravado.

They also think Michael Savage would make a great RNC chairperson.

[Don Claybrook]

98. Why do you waste your time wondering about the musings of inbreeders?

Seriously, are you actually impressed with their rhetoric, thought processes? I don't give much of a fuck what a three-toed sloth thinks of the DNC chair, and by the same token, I don't really care what the hate-filled, non-cognitive members of Free Republic think.

Why do you?

[bunnyhugger]

348. c'mon!

how many of us say WAY worse stuff than this about "our" closet satanic president, and he was (kind of) elected not once but TWICE!!??

[bamacrat]

72. I like what he said, and love that he said it but....

[abb9]

105. Dean spoke the Truth.

Dean spoke the truth and the truth hurts.As draftee and a disabled viet Nam Vet,I have notcied that too many of our democratic leaders have been turning into Republican lite,so much so,that I can not tell the difference most times between them.

They all just about,gave Bush the green light for his illegal war for oil,except for maybe about 3 or 4 guys,and have been silent most times when they are supposed to confront the warmongering fascist on many things they have done,example?

Hardly anyone of the so called Dems,have mentioned anything about the issue of the Downing St.Memo.

They have been giving awol a fee ride for most of the last four plus years and besides,being an African American who have voted democrat all my life,it is good to see at least one democrat making an effort to include all of America like they used to,with the ackowledgement that they have to also do more than lip service.
The truth hurts,and all those who are saying he should not say what he did,knows deep down that he is right.

The Republican party is mostly A Rich,White Male chauvanist Party, who has many of the same ideas of many of the Supremist,and haters,and the intollerant,hypocrit and phony so called Christian right.

Dean Rocks

[Erika]

119. Great post

Thanks for sharing.

[LeftCoast]

94. For those criticizing Dean...don't you get it?

No matter WHAT we as Democrats say, Republicans will criticize and spin it. As long as Dean's message is remotely effective the Republicans will be on him with guns blazing. Like it or not, the Repub's have ended the days of bipartisanship.

Democrats who fight will continue to be targeted by the Republican Noise Machine. Do not judge Democrats based on whether or not they hurt Republican's feelings.

[wisteria]

153. What do we gain by Dean's insults.

I thought he was suppose to raise money and recruit voters to our side. Yeah, its fun to give it to the re pubs,but how does that actually get us where we need to be? We may all love the zingers, but we are all ready democrats and we already contribute to the party. How is this bringing in new people and money?

[renaissanceguy]

283. We gain because he's fighting for US

and he's fighting the coporate media's LIE that "mainstream" America is fundamentalist Christian.

He speaks the truth, and the truth sometimes hurts. Considering we're losing support from minorities, I think this statement speaks out to the minorities: We're the umbrella party.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.21272015

[Guaranteed]

185. Awesome post. nt

[Justitia]

240. Yeah, who's following Evan Bayh around w/a microphone???? ha, ha

Dr. Dean is being very EFFECTIVE and it shows.

Besides, every word of what he said WAS THE TRUTH and it landed on a nerve, didn't it?

[Chalco]

95. He's right.

I remember during the attempt to impeach Clinton. The Repugs all looked alike--white preppie boys with something stuck up their ass. Completely homogeneous group.

Then, when you looked at the people defending Clinton you saw a heterogeneous group: women, black, white, asian, hispanic.

I love Dean. He says the truth.

The truth shall set us free. Keep saying the truth.

DrudgeReport acts like Dean is committing a crime. I say, bring it on, Dean, bring it on!

[dchill]

103. preppie boys with something

stuck up their ass.

Yup. Each other.

"Homogenous" indeed!

[Nancy Waterman]

114. THESE G-DAMNED DEMOCRATS SHOULD BACK HOWARD!!

They need to say things like this:

In response to the comment about Repubs never working

Well, their policies certainly don't help the working people.

In response to the White Christian Party comments

The Repubs certainly don't stand up for minority Americans on issues of jobs and health care needs, etc., and they talk a lot about Christianity in public

The Dems need to SUPPORT WHAT IS BEHIND WHAT HOWARD SAYS, ignore the criticism and the aspect of agreement or disagreement. They need to keep the GOP on the defensive, not let the whole thing become about Howard and not about the lousy GOP polcies. They play right into the GOP's manipulative hands!!

[rayofreason]

202. Democrats and Dean

Biden was already trashing Dean BEFORE this

http://dadahead.blogspot.com/2005/06/piss-off-biden.html

How many of the Democratic leaders will, finger in the wind, attack Dean tomorrow?

[truthisfreedom]

101. keep it up, Dean! this is perfect... keep them reacting and drawing

attention to you... use them to further your cause! you're not PC, Dean... never were... but you're getting the attention you need to further the party's agenda!

[AlCzervik]

110. hmmm, why are they upset, he's only stating the obvious but i guess thats

a crime now.

[anitar1]

111. Good for Dean. Some one has to stand up to these nuts,

and he is the man.

[Duncan Grant]

112. "We're more welcoming to different folks, ..." True or False?

He's speaking the truth. Personally, I don't need a diplomat to be my party chair - I need a fucking warrior. Especially now.

[EFerrari]

120. Me, too. Island San Francisco for Dean.

Tom Daschle, for example, was a good guy. But we needed a hammer not a dinner bell.

(Did I say that? lol )

[creeksneakers2]

118. Howard needs to cool out

Its been fun to watch the GOP get a taste of its own medicine. However, instead of taking the fight to the GOP, and showing how wrong they are on issues, Howard is making himself the issue. Last Sunday only one talk show host asked about the Downing Street memo. They ALL talked about Howard Dean.

I was all for Howard but this latest one is just too much. All Republicans look alike? That's crazy.

[Erika]

125. Dean's just getting warmed up! Go Dean!

The policy makers like Boxer, Kennedy, Kerry etc will take care of the issues such as the memo.

The GOP is pathetically weak right now. Their prince charming, Bush, has turned into a little green frog when it comes to the running of this country.

[EFerrari]

126. Have you checked out Bush's audiences lately?

Howard is on the mark. Don't support him at your and your party's peril.

[Erika]

142. Bush always places Blacks behind him in televised speeches

in full view of the camera. However, when the cameras sweep the room, those placed Blacks are usually the only ones in the room. Evidently those few Blacks don't mind being used.

[EFerrari]

145. Product placement. n/t

[bklyncowgirl]

130. Aw c'mon haven't you every played "count the black people"

while watching the Republican convention.

Hey! There's one--Oh wait--that's Alan Keyes--never mind.

[Orion The Hunter]

267. RE: Count the blacks at the RN Convention

This comment reminds me of a few years back when Chris Rock was a commentator during the election and was following the Republican convention around... his comment was "Well I am the only black person here...AGAIN."

I have to concur - Dean was spot on about how the Republican party is mostly a white (and male) party of Christian conservatives. He hit the nail right on the head and no one should be apologizing for that fact. But Dean has also been fairly tough on the Democratic party with regards to minorities, when he noted that the Democratic party cannot only show up during election time to curry favor with minorities and then disappear thereafter.

While I do think Dean can tone his rhetoric down a bit so he does not become the story instead of his message, I am likewise pleased that Dean is speaking the blunt truth and not being apologetic for saying what he feels (which is sadly what we get a lot of from many within the Democratic party).

[conflictgirl]

131. And you know exactly how many Muslims for Bush?

Yeah, I tell you, when I see photos of Bush rallies I see lots of diversity there. Anyone who would imply that the Republican party isn't diverse is just being inflammatory and radical. :eyes:

[Malikshah]

133. No-- the MSM is making Dean the Issue.

Had Dean been caspar milquetoast-- they would be sniggering in their sleaves and making it Front Page material.

With the MSM in the pockets of the fascists--it's hard to win.

It doesn't help when folks buy into the tripe hook line and sinker, though.

[Guaranteed]

187. That's fine. We can use that.

They're giving him the mic.

[stickdog]

136. Really? Aren't self-identified Repukes over 95% white & Christian?

Is it "crazy" to observe the truth?

[Bake]

200. How many Dems are also Christians??

Can we TRY not to piss them off? Can we try to not paint all Christians with the broad "fundie" brush? It would be helpful if they turned out and voted Dem AGAIN. Or do you want to continue to lose elections WITHOUT them?

Bake

[stickdog]

207. Why would saying Repukes are generally white Christians piss off

non-Repuke white Christians?

Here's a simple lesson in logic:

Saying "Repukes are pretty much white Christians" says something about Repukes, not white Christians. It certainly DOES NOT mean "white Christians are generally Repukes."

Put in logical terms, a statement does NOT imply it's converse.

[Pacifist Patriot]

235. Exactly. Logic 101.

[2Design]

124. it is the south rising again - as promised -

[devilgrrl]

128. That about sums it up!

What's not true about his statement?

[tallahasseedem]

144. Dont like what Dean says?

Hold your own informal poll of those driving the vehicles with Bush/Cheney stickers. See what you come up with. Why in the hell are we worried what they say about us? These are the people that passed out purple heart band-aids and demeaned a faithful servant of our country. Screw 'em. It time they swallowed the jagged pill they have been force feeding us for years.

[EndElectoral]

146. Disagree. I find nothing Christian-like by Repub actions at all

[NuttyFluffers]

148. good on him. no such thing as bad publicity in america.

don't like what he said -- tough titty, he said it, he's right, and he got *controversy*, the very lifeblood of politics, it whips up its base and makes fence sitters (who strategic people *never* rely on, because they are unreliable by their very nature!) stop and think for good or ill.

great move. may he make a thousand more. may he be a thorn in the side of namby pamby pudding pie pink tutu democrats. don't need 'em. ain't gonna fight when you're nation is about to collapse into fascist downward spiral, then *when* are you going ot fight? time to start ignoring cowards' advice and follow truth as painful as it may be.

[Skip Intro]

149. Dean rocks, that's the only way I can say it.

:thumbsup:

[wisteria]

150. I suppose now he thinks he is on a roll and the insults will continue.

If he wanted to sling insults at republicans all the time he should have taken a job as a left wing radio talk show host. Is he really raising large sums of money this way? He is a very visible Representative of the Democratic party. Why can't he criticize the content of Bush and the repubs opinions, and viewpoints with out getting personal and insulting potential swing voters. I thought the whole idea was to attract more voters to our side not alienate them.

[stickdog]

154. Exactly. That's why Repukes never say anything insulting about liberals.

:sarcasm:

[wisteria]

156. What repubs are you referring to?

Not the RNC chairman, not repub senators directly, not even Bush or Chaney. We get bashed by the talk radio people and political pundits. Think what you will, I think his comments are inappropriate for the DNC chairman.

[stickdog]

178. Any and all of them trash liberals constantly. Do you actually live here?

[wisteria]

191. You either didn't read my whole post or you misunderstand.

Repub bashing has a time and place. Just as Liberal bashing does. My point is, Repubs in power positions don't usually go around slinging the mud at democrats they let their operatives do it for them. People such as Hannity, Colter etc are the attack dogs. Dean, IMO should not be doing the attacking so directly and so often. Other dems should be the mouth pieces. Dean's main focus should be on raising money and gaining new support and voters.

[July]

224. Cheney to Senator Leahy: "Go fuck yourself."

Senator Helms stating publicly that Clinton had better bring a bodyguard if he goes to Helms's state.

RNC leadership response to Dean: "desperate."

Etc.

[bunnyhugger]

350. we are tired of P*SSIES nt

[Justitia]

243. My (TEXAS) gov just said gay people should leave my state!!

And he signed legislation encouraging them to do so IN A A CHURCH!

That was a 100% WHITE CHRISTIAN (hateful bigots all) event!

[The Straight Story]

159. Indeed, to fight them we will become like them

Now all we need is a rush limbaugh on the left to spread fear, hate and lies and we will be well on our way to 'winning' - though what we will win I am not real sure of.

In all fairness to dean though, I don't think he was trying to insult anyone - he was merely describing the base. I do think he was somewhat inaccurate in a sense though - colin powell and condi are not white, nor are many others. It could be seen as a slam on christians - many of whom are black and hispanic and while they may see the white part as being correct they might also see the way he used christian as a negative.

Time will tell - if nothing else, he will get people talking. Will be interesting to see what they say on it.

[stickdog]

180. So what's the alternative, avoiding the truth if anybody might possibly

take offense?

Did that work for us in 2002?

[The Straight Story]

195. So what is it voters want to hear then?

Dems already will vote dem. If we want to win over voters are we saying that we are doing wrong is not making enough sweeping accusations with other connotations that can be easily read into them (Like the dems are the party of black atheists while the repugs are the party of white christians?)

Dean's messages play well with us, and can fire up the base. But the base will vote dem no matter what anyway. Only two parties have a chance and no one on this board will flip over to repug side.

So what message is it we are missing to the middle/swing voters? Is it that bush is bad, or that things are wrong and we can fix em and you are all welcome to help out? Christians make up a majority of this country - reaching out instead of bashing might go a long way (not saying he was bashing them, just talking in general about attitudes and messages).

I don't know the answers - I just am not sure this method is it. I might be wrong. Kind of hope I am too :)

[Teaser]

163. Please learn to read.

This didn't insult anyone. Not anyone, dig?

It was a statement of Demographic fact.

Jesus, the Democratic party is doomed if its members can't read for fucking content.

[NuttyFluffers]

252. halleluiah, a voice of sanity.

if i could only put your post in bold 50pt. font.

hypersensitive tea cozies do no service to truth in the face of abused power.

[ernstbass]

276. My concern is that the average citizen

won't take time to read the content and they aren't going to get it from the MSM. I have no problem with Dr Dean's statements but I fear that they will offend more persons than they will attract and I think this is about winning more elections, isn't it?

[lynne]

162. So, are white Christian Dem's -

- now required to defect to Freeperville?

Dean becomes a liability to the party when he begins insulting and alienating our core base - a good part of which is both white and Christian.

He's already talked himself out of 2008. If he keeps it up, he may soon talk himself out of his job based on the number of democrats that seem to be distancing themselves from him.

[Teaser]

164. Read for Content, Coolio.

He's not saying White Christians can't be Democrats. Can you read? Are you reading this? If so, why the difficult time picking through the plain text of the article. If you need help parsing it, I'll be glad to walk you through it. I've one literacy outreach my whole life.

[lynne]

226. I've got no problem reading for content -

- and the entire statement "They all behave the same. They all look the same. It's pretty much a white Christian party" will be interpreted by some to mean that if you're white and christian you behave and look like a republican.

The conflict that his statements are causing amongst the faithful just on the DU board should be evidence enough to prove to you that I am right. If WE - here at DU - are not fully understanding of his intent, exactly what do you think the average dem who gets their news via the MSM is thinking?

Defend Dean if you wish. I think he's turning into a liability.

[ElectroPrincess]

268. Really, you should stop torturing yourself -

Join up with the DINOs and please please please, encourage these bastards to become the Moderate Republicans that they are ... they ARE all for Big Business NOT the average working man. Our party has gone WAY too far to the right, it's time to return to the BASE who will fight in the trenches and have SPINES - both representatives and constituents.

On edit: I'm a practicing liberal Catholic and I take no offense at Dean's remark. He's not referring to us white liberal Christian Democrats BECAUSE we respect the separation of Church and State PLUS we do not "use Jesus" to force our beliefs on others.

[Justitia]

244. Some people seem to have reading comprehension problems here. -eom

[stickdog]

184. Yes, because all white Christian Dems are xenophobes who hate diversity.

But none of them realized that the Dem Party was more diverse than Repuke Party until Dean alienated all of them by pointing out that obvious and undeniable fact. :sarcasm:

[ElectroPrincess]

271. If you want to personally believe that BUNK - fine! But kindly stand out

of Our Way (Dean Supporters) while we kick Republican a**. We promise to share the spoils.

But for now, please LEAD, FOLLOW or get the HELL OUT OF OUR WAY!!! :patriot:

[digno dave]

167. It's sad that just as repugs are falling apart Dean gives media ammo so

they can point the gun back at us.
I kind of get what he was saying but being a politician he should know he needs to choose his phrasing more carefully, though.
An asian reporter was asking him about why Democrats should be more appealing to asians than republicans.
No party spokesman should be out there making blanket statements like that. That's the kind if shit a political newbie running for city council would say, not the Chairman of the DNC.

[Erika]

169. Many Black & White Christians vote Democratic

They don't like W reversing Christ's Golden Ruling and helping only the rich.

[stickdog]

186. So the obvious truth that Dems have more diversity than Repukes is

dangerous territory?

And "it's pretty much a white Christian party" is a "blanket statement" rather than an undeniably truthful observation?

[digno dave]

189. It could be said that he implies that Dems want neither whites or Xstians

Is that the message he wants to get out?

[stickdog]

208. It could also be said that any statement implies it's converse.

But, of course, that's not logical, now is it?

[July]

225. Or it could be said that Republicans are almost exclusively

white and Christian, while Democrats are white, Christian, AND everything else.

[confludemocrat]

203. Go read the faint-hearted olddad56 above

He has a similar outlook to yours. Dean is blunt, honest and accurate. What a concept.

[FighttheFuture]

360. Bullshit!! Dean is putting out a life-preserver for those looking...

for leadership that is not afraid to speak truth to power!!

[Placebo]

170. What a fool.

[ElectroPrincess]

183. No, I respectfully disagree. Dean is a courageous American Patriot ...

He speaks truth to power. The base consists of religious extremists. Sad to say that some of my fellow Catholics got sucked in on the "self-righteous" indignation that spews from the noise machine. The Right Wing republicans have the funding to manipulate the working class southern whites to vote for them with carefully orchestrated themes: "Godless liberals" - "Hate America first crowd" - "They look European" - Good minorities vote conservative or are whacked out on dogmatic religious beliefs.

Yes, Dean is speaking truth to power. I'd appreciate a thoughtful "pass" by our secular humanitarians, agnostics, etc. when I say with all my heart and soul, May God Bless Dean! He's exactly what we need now to mobilize the masses.

We must play hard and bluntly speak the truth IF we are to have a prayer of winning back our Democratic Republic from the Corporate Elites.

[Justitia]

246. EP - do you expect a different sentiment from this poster?? -eom

[confludemocrat]

205. A fool for the sake of truth then, if he's a fool

Like a fool for love, how can that be so bad. But he's not a fool, he speaks quite accurately on this matter.

[Rainscents]

212. Fool? You must not get it!

[eridani]

173. He's just agreeing with Nancy Reagan

http://www.ipoaa.com/earl_ofari_hutchinson.htm


During a campaign stop in New Hampshire in 1976, Reagan phoned Nancy and raved about the state's beautiful white snow. Nancy's retort was that she wished he could be in Chicago with her "to see all these beautiful white people." There is no indication that Reagan was bothered by Nancy's "slip." But even if he was, and chastised Nancy for her intemperate remark, his assault on civil rights, affirmative action, and social programs were the final testament to his belief that maybe Nancy was right. (Source: Nixon's Piano: President's and Racial Politics From Washington to Clinton, Kenneth O'Reilly, The Free Press, 1995, pp.352, 377-378)

[Erika]

182. I remember listening to Reagan talking about the 1950's

when he said there were no race problems then and we all got along.

I thought to myself, and I was a child, this guy is an utter fool. The pot was boiling for the race riots.

I understand this guy made us feel good about ourselves by never looking at the mistakes we made, and offering a better life for all.

I don't understand how he got away with hiding reality.

[mitchum]

176. It's a money-grubbing, racist party filled with religious fanatics

[AgadorSparticus]

179. TROLLED??!!?!! Dr. Dean, you can troll my state ANYTIME with balls

of steel like that! I LOVE the doctor!!
:loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

[Behind the Aegis]

209. and?

It is! It might not have been the best way to state it, but at least he has the balls to call a duck a duck! Good for him!!! Perhaps he needs to learn to be more diplomatic/philosophic (bullshitter), but I am glad we have someone who will take people to task, including our own party!

(The philosophy = bullshit is my own tribute to Mel Brooks on the loss of his beautiful and talented wife, Anne Bancroft!)

[Rainscents]

211. Dr. Dean... You ROCK!!!

We need lot more people like you in democratic party!!! Speak up and tell the ruth!!! :toast: :thumbsup:

[Irreverend IX]

216. Not the best statement to make...

I'm far from Christian, but I don't think leaders like Dean should make statements equating Christians with Democratic opposition. This will do nothing but alienate people and inspire "libruls hate us poor oppressed Christians" talking points. I do think it's important to point out the lack of racial diversity in the GOP, though.

[OETKB]

218. Hard Road

Dr. Dean is a change agent and as such many feathers get ruffled. All those entrenched elements that want to preserve the status quo will come out of the woodwork. It is the fate of change agents to bring about the change but they seldom get prominent leadership positons once the confrontaton is over. To those that are the beneficiaries of the change they then want stability and those who didn't would be humiliated by seeing the change agent in a position of power. Fortunately or unfortunately human nature usually takes over when the dust settles. The history of humans is to have straigtforward existence interspersed with occassional noble moments.

Further, in citing a "white Christian" culture there is also a hard reality. In 30 to 50 years white christians will be in the minority given current demographic trends. It is not wrong to open some eyes to that inevitable cultural transition. All this talk of what the present makeup of our nation will soon be moot.

[mdelaguna2000]

256. I agree

Change is hard, it is not warm and fuzzy. Someone's got to shake it up, disturb people - make them ask questions, wake up, get uncomfortable (even more so).

I agree with your assessment of Howard's role in the process. How lucky we are that he is so good at this sort of thing.

[DC Law]

227. Let's get real

Nabeshin is spot-on. Dean's statement clearly draws a line between white Christians and the Democratic party, and plays DIRECTLY into Republicans' rhetoric that we seek to oppress this class of people. (This shouldn't matter, but I am neither Christian nor white, incidentally.) White Christians make up an enormous portion of our population, and if and when they become a minority in this country, the Democratic Party should stand up for them as it has for all minorities. We are the party of *inclusion*, remember?

No, Dean's statements, to the extent that they are attributed to Democrats as a whole, only marginalize the party by playing to society's worst fears and prejudices. Moreover, refraining from such meaningless, base rhetoric does *nothing* to compromise the party's ideals or ideas.

Let me repeat this: refraining from these statements is *not* a retreat from principled, liberal political positions. Why? Because they aren't political ideas at all. They do nothing to advance progressive thought or make it attractive to the public. All they do is alienate a vast segment of the population that could (or already does) agree with Democratic goals, and at the same time redirect Democratic energy in an altogether fruitless, futile, and negative direction.

Many well-intending progressives here and elsewhere are confusing strength and purity of ideology and speech with offensiveness and divisiveness of rhetoric. The two could not be more different.

That is all I have to say.

[Justitia]

250. Wrong. He commented solely on the demographic of the R party

and his stmts were entirely correct. It IS mostly WHITE and (professed) CHRISTIAN.

It is a logical fallacy to claim the reverse, and I am beginning to think this obfuscation by others is intentional - as usual.

[illini]

231. The Doctor is just giving an honest diagnosis!

NT

[hippiechick]

241. Rock on, Dr !

The more he tells the truth about the incestousness <sp?> of Washington DC - BOTH parties, mind you - and the obviousness that 'our' representatives tend to look out for certain big donor groups' interests over 'the common good' - the more regular average people are going to listen to the 'new' Dem message, and the more the party can be remade with real people to get the corporate whores on both sides of the aisle fired, and the Fundie branch of the GOP tossed out on their keisters !



DEAN FOR POPE !! oh, uh .. errr ... :silly:

[bdot]

248. Dean is really gaining attention.

He's doing things that a lot of people kept refusing to do. Speak up. Speak out.
Kerry was seen as a coward because everytime someone something happened where he was shown as weak or unable to do things, he wouldn't speak out. He just nodded his head and went back rambling about something unrelated. People saw him as having no backbone and had no respect for him.

[kentuck]

249. This is better than "fund-raising"...

Why do you raise funds? Just so you can get publicity... Of course, the Repubs don't like it. Screw 'em!

[Guckert]

251. GOP= DIVERT, DISTRACT, DISTORT. we cant let real news get out.

[natrat]

254. dude you forgot the most important thing -STEAL,,,alot

big rise in cayman island accounts, lot of money diverted there. These are crooks plain and simple, it's part of the ethos.

[Roland99]

255. Any see his interview by Matt Lauer on NBC's The Today Show?

Matt kept trying to focus on what Dean had said in recent months while Dean was trying to focus on the fact that the Democratic party is trying to reach out to people from all walks of life.

I know the point Dean is trying to make but he needs to settle down on the rhetoric and start coming up with more detail behind this agenda. Start pushing some legislation through and making the GOP look like the party of the panderers.

[Justitia]

258. I did see Pres Carter just back up what Dean said.

Lauer tried to sucker punch him w/a question about Dean, tried to bait him into disagreeing w/Dean.

Pres Carter didn't fall for it at all! He said Howard is simply pointing out that the repub party has created a monolithic presence in DC that doesn't allow anyone in their party to act in a bipartisan manner.

He didn't miss a beat - Pres Carter is a smart man.
THAT is how to handle the media!

[Roland99]

265. Sweet!

[InvisibleTouch]

257. I love that guy!

He's got the courage to tell it like it is. When did Democrats become so afraid of telling the unvarnished truth? When did honesty become a liability? I've been disappointed lately to see even Dems I admire, try to distance themselves from Dr. Dean's straightforward diagnosis. Obviously the truth works - because he's raising money hand-over-fist. Mealy-mouthed weaseling that doesn't dare take a stand, has obviously not worked. The rest of the party needs to sit up and take notice.

You go, Howard!

[Catchawave]

259. Blowing kisses to Howard ! n/t

[4_TN_TITANS]

261. Who didn't see this coming?!?!?

C'mon now, we all knew that Dean was going to do things like this because his history is to fight fire with fire. It's not my style, but we do need someone who can brazenly lead a charge. His remark is shocking (shocking, I say) coming from a Democrat, but it's peanuts compared to what the Repugs have said about us.

My two cents is - GO HOWARD GO!

[paineinthearse]

262. Excellent related post - Dean is a genious

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1838078

[truthpusher]

263. He's pretty close to the truth...

...even though his remarks are too general, they are closer to the truth than 'The Republicans are a party of inclusion".

[theophilus]

266. Don't give them the satisfaction of calling them "Christian".

I know that many who have been hijacked and brainwashed by the Repub leadership ARE Christians. The leadership, however, are highly questionable when it comes to the teachings of Jesus. Neocons and corporatists are probably fanatics of one stripe or another. Mr. Dean can tell it like it is......a white party of Religion led by hypocrites and Pharisees, etc.

I admire him for addressing the issue, though.

[winter999]

269. Isn't Dean a White Christian?

And so is John Edwards, John Kerry, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter.....

"Those who throw stones..."

Just because the Repubs make generalizations like this doesn't make it right. Do we want to be like the enemy??

[ElectroPrincess]

272. wHat? They're the enemy, are they not?

On edit - I want to destroy the Republican Noise Machine. If it takes fighting them on their turf (we have no choice) in order to win our democratic republic back, then as The Chimperor loves to quip, "BRING IT ON!"

[Justitia]

275. How is calling them a "mostly white Christian party" throwing stones?

Wow - are they AFRAID or ASHAMED of being described so accurately???

If not, why RUN AWAY from the label??

Looks like Dean has hit more than a few nerves!

[mermaid]

298. In The Same Way That It Is Insulting To Call A Pig A Pig

in other words, it isn't.

You can dress up the pig all you want, you can put all the lipstick on the pig you want...at the end of the day, IT IS STILL A PIG!!

and I, for one, salute Howard Dean for having the guts to finally stand up and call the GOP Pig exactly what it is!!

[Lost-in-FL]

273. It is just me?

But I think he is right... And why repubs (and even some republican light are so "touchy-feely" about the subject?

[Justitia]

277. Nope, not just you. Looks like some are kinda uncomfortable w/the

accurate description, huh???

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Northern Experiment]

274. Man it feels good to have an outspoken leader!

Dean is the man no doubt. When he speaks, I listen. I think its about time that someone pisses off the Republicans for once and not just rolling over to them.

[nolabels]

279. Ice Cream is cold, but all cold things are not Ice Cream, Duh

Can we say Howard's just outing the Republicans for who they really are?
I think the real question to ask about it is why would they be angry?

To beat back the ugly thing it will take inclusion not narrow casting and divisiveness that they practice. How can you be accommodating and at the same time a purveyor of ethics and morality? That's a tough row to hoe that even Icons long past struggled with. What seems fair to some might not seem fair others. Unchecked wealth and power are easy to counter but being able to identify the new ways these types of elements are hidden could be the task.

Ask a thousand different people what freedom is and you might get a thousand different answers, but still it's a good question to ask, isn't it?

[Robworld]

280. This is what the Democratic Party needs.

You don't have to agree with what he said (even though he is right) but you have to agree that the Democratic party has bent over to the Republicans for way to long. Republicans have been slinging shit for years, and after 2004 it is time to start fighting back.

http://www.Dumdumgoestothecircus.com

[DirtyDawg]

284. Typical

The responses of a Joe Biden, et. al., and their 'distancing' themselves from Howard, strikes me as exactly what's been wrong with the demos all these years. They seem to still believe that people should be civil in their debates about the direction of the country...only they forgot to get the repigs to go along with that tactic. They've - demos intent on playing nice (and in their parlance, smart) - become like the frogs that don't notice the heat until it's too late. It's just these folks, the ones that don't like this kind of 'calling a spade, a spade' and that are turned off with the confrontation, that wake up one day and wonder how in hell the country got into the fix that we're in. Or, more likely, go to their graves worrying more about being polite than fighting back.

[ElectroPrincess]

288. Many times it has little to do with "being polite"

Many of these DINOS are as greedy (and spoiled!) as their Republican counterparts across the aisle. Like the shameful fawning behavior both Clintons have demonstrated lately, it's NO - *ZERO* sacrifice to them if we send more troops over to an horrible war - OR - the average American is up to his eyeballs in Credit Card debt.

All that is important to these "play nice" DINOs is THEM. We need to get rid of the horrid freaks ... "get along" my a** - many times our "gutless wonder" Democratic Representatives are part of the waltz ... the fix. Many are heavily invested in corporations promoting this evil occupation. (The Military-Industrial Complex).

No, they only warrant our contempt. They need to go.

[ozone_man]

285. It has been more and more so since 1950, but it takes Dean to say it

I think he's framed this one perfectly. The Democratic Party is about diversity, tolerance and defending our constitutional rights of separation of church and state.

It's time to support Dean's DNC with grass roots dollars to show the DLC types that this is the kind of message we want to hear, not some Republican lite crap that I hear from Biden, Edwards, and Richardson.

[napi21]

292. Yea, and all the MSM is saying Dean put his foot in his mouth again!

I think he's exactly right too! They do all look alike...watch cspan some time!

[Jon8503]

294. Go Howard; About Time A Democrat With Guts

The democrats like Biden might do well by supporting our Chairman.

Its the leaders of the party such as Biden who have got us in this mess by not being on point, taking a hard stand and standing "united" instead of always caving or trying to compromise with these people.

This means when Howard Dean speaks we all need to unite behind him. We may not agree with everything he says or how he says it but we must stand united. This is how we will defeat the right wing christian evangelical party who is taking this country down with their hate, greed and uncaring attitude towards those who do not agree with them.

I have always supported Howard Dean, he was my choice for our candidate and if he could get the total backing of our party, he would be even better.

[Dangerously Amused]

331. Don't Shoot the Messenger!

My thoughts precisely.

Okay, so some of us don't agree exactly with something Howard said... BUT...

We KNOW Howard stands for what we all want. We KNOW he has our best interests at heart.

People, the answer is NOT to go on the offensive against our man!!! The answer is to SUPPORT our man ala Scotty McC: "What Howard MEANT to say was... (insert relevant Dem talking point here).

Hey, we are going to get the occasional imperfect remark from Howard because he is a strong leader speaking with unscripted passion. For Pete's sake, look at all the bizarre mutations of the English language that come out of W's mouth - and he is scripted 24/7 - and his supporters don't bat an eye. Well, then again, a good number of them are probably semi-literate as well.

So anyway. Point being - let's decide right now that on those occasions when Howard makes a spontaneous comment which in retrospect might benefit from a little tweak... that we will not hold it against him; that we will give him the benefit of the doubt, and rush in to support him based on all the other TREMENDOUS GOOD he's accomplished for our party.

As for me and my house, we say,

GO HOWARD GO! GIVE 'EM HELL! WE SUPPORT YOU 100% !!!

[Tommymac]

295. You ROCK Dr. Dean!

About time we Dems have someone who is not afraid to fight fire with fire. Someone who is willing to roll up their sleeves (and pant legs) and get down in the Repug mud pit.

I have been a Dem since the 70's...and am sick of the way our Party always seems to be on the defensive, apologizing for everything under the sun.

The Repugs have made a caricature out of us, it's about time we fought back and paint them with their own brush.

I am not a regular poster...but if this keeps up I may very well have my fire reignited and become one.

Thanks Dr. Dean! You ROCK baby!

[Tommymac]

305. I put my money where my mouth is!

I just contributed $25 dollars to the DNC...sent them a little letter stating that it was ONLY because of what Gov Dean said. I have not contributed much since the fall...because I was so sick of the sos coming out of our spokespeople's mouths...

Show your support for Gov Dean ... go to the DNC's website and at least send them a message stating you are behind Gov Dean on this...don't necessarily need to contribute...but at least let the leadership know we are "Mad as Hell and Are No Going to Take it ANYMORE"!!!

YEEEAHHHHHHHHGGGGG!!!!!!!

[mermaid]

297. 'Bout FUCKING TIME Someone Came Out And Said

what we all already KNOW...

Go, DEAN!!!

[TWiley]

299. Let me say in advance EDWARDS can KISS my ASS.

The same goes for Senator Bidden.

Thanks for the stupidity of these types of people, we have the shrub in the white house for 4 more years.

I think it is about damn time that the Democrats spoke their mind about the hypocrisy of the republican party, and God Bless Howard Dean for taking the lead role.

Thinking twice, let me re frame my comment and say that it is our MORAL OBLIGATION TO CRITICIZE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

Idiots like John Edwards believe that the best evidence of opposition is no opposition whatsoever. He believes that the best way to express dissent is to kiss their asses.

John Edwards should shut the fuck up and let the rest of us lead the Democratic party to victory.

Go Howard !!!

[shantipriya]

300. Go Dean!!!

I agree wuth Dean. He had the guts to say what is a fact. Isn't that one of the reasons why so many white rednecks vote against their own interests by voting Repugs!A lot of whites vote republican because of racism,pure & simple.

[Pryderi]

301. HE'S 'MOBILIZING THE BASE' AND RAISING MONEY! LEAVE HIM ALONE!

[BooScout]

304. Dean speaks the truth......

And the other wussy Democrats like Biden need to sit down and shut up. I am sick of playing nice with the Republican Party. It's time to not shy away from the truth and expose them for what they are.....a bunch of fat, good old boy white men trying to run this country into the ground.

[progressivebydesign]

307. This morning.. after thinking about it.. I still say, 'what's the fuss?

Dean spoke the truth. My God.. it's not like he called them devoid of morals, haters of the military, welfare queens, or losers. I mean.. that would be like.. oh. it would be like what the REPUBLICAN LEADERS CALL US ALL THE TIME!!!!

The ONLY reason some Democrats are in a snit is because they think the ONLY way to be elected (when they run for President) is to pacify and place nicey nice with the Republicans. Bullshit. Bush the idiot got re-elected because people felt that he was a straight shooter (the voting machines helped, too).

everyone needs to leave Dean alone. The dipshit Dems who are hoping to run for Prez need to chill, all they are doing is giving the media more red meat. It's not DEAN that's the issue, it's the apologists in our Party that are.

Howard Dean.. you speak for me.

[bkcc]

308. He's right, but everyone only hears soundbites.

And it gets twisted out of shape, as usual.

By far, the remark that pissed me off most was from Ken Mehlman:

Asked about it on the "Fox & Friends" show, GOP Party Chairman Ken Mehlman joked that "a lot of folks who attended my Bar Mitzvah would be surprised" he heads a Christian party.

I HATE that the Republicans do this all the time. They put someone like Mehlman or Colin Powell in a very public role and then trumpet their party's commitment to diversity.

Frankly, we need more outspoken people like Dean and less wimpy little apologists like Edwards and Biden.

[BooScout]

309. Yup...

The Republicans do like their high profile tokens.

[monobrau]

310. Keep up the good work Howard!

This is the first time a person in a position of authority in the Democratic party has spoken for me. It's time to take our country back from the fundie pigs. If some of you cracker asses around here don't like it, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[onehandle]

314. Stupid people come in all races and religions.

Of course the ruling class of the GOP are White Males to be even more specific. However their religion is Corporatism.

The sheep of the party are mostly white and Christian, true.

And all are different mixes of stupid, greedy, and hateful.

The non-whites tend to be stupid or greedy more than hateful.

[CAcyclist]

315. My letter to Carla:

Dear Carla Marinucci,

What part of white Christian party is offensive? It's true. The Republican Party is 87% white the last time I read the stats - that's pretty damn white. Of course, you can always find the exceptions that prove the rules, but why the outrage and exaggerated shock? Dean didn't call them all KKK apologists or gun lobby nuts or religious freaks or the party of hate, after all, he just said what everyone can see for themselves.

What I find outrageous is when so-called journalists repeat Republican right-wing talking points without bothering to check the facts. Of course the Republicans are outstripping the democrats in fund-raising - that tends to happen when you shower rich folk with tax cuts and shovel pork to corporations. What you fail to note is that Dean has outstripped all fund-raising efforts in an off-election year:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1825374
Stampy52 (36 posts) Fri Jun-03-05 01:49 AM
Original message
A final word on Dean and raising money


MyDD offers the same information and a final word on Dean's fundraising activity, and it is this: don't believe the hype.

A quick look at actual FEC reports shows that Dean has raised more money in an off year than any DNC Chair in history.
First Quarter of 2005 - $16.7 million
Q1/2004 - $28.7 million
Q1/2003 - $8.7 million
Q1/2002 - $11.8

And Dean is on pace to break the midyear fundraising of $23.7 in the first six months of 2001.

It turns out numbers can be false when they are true, as the "low" number of 2005 is extremely misleading. Thanks Business Week. It also turns out that a true picture of Dean portrays him as a great fundraiser and a progressive to boot! Well fuckin' A. Progressives 1, establishment Dems 0.

Here's the good news: Dean is bringing in the cash without selling out. That means more AMERICANS care. How much does it mean for a corp to give money versus an American? Well, in the first instance it is an investment, and in the second, a sacrifice. So America is sacrficing for our cause, and that's beyond great.

MyDD offers one final, parting thought:

Not to mention that there is no reason for corporation donor to even hedge their bets with Democrats since the GOP controls everything.


so what was that score? Progressives 32468, Establishment Democrats .. well get off the court, losers. There's a new star in town.

link:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/6/2/85226/67718


So, next time you are asked to write a right-wing hit piece on us democrats, maybe you'll dig a little deeper. Dean DOES stand for me - and I will donate to the DNC every time he is bashed.

[TwentyFive]

316. GO HOWARD!! Everybody KNOWS he means BIGOTED White and FAR RIGHT Christian

But everybody know what he meant, and who he is pointing the finger at too.

[Sparkle]

319. Howard Dean speaks the truth!

[0007]

320. 'Tis very clear and the thruth hurts to those that have a closed mind.

Go Dean go

[Barkley]

322. Howard Dean Speaks for me! eom

[redqueen]

326. Go Howard!

:applause:

[Chicago Democrat]

328. GO GO GO HOWARD GO!

yeeeeHA!

[bloom]

330. If he called them ""Christian Masculinicists"

it would describe the Republicans more accurately - and Democrats who are white Christians wouldn't have to feel that they were lumped together with these Republicans.

It also covers the women that go along with this nonsense.

If there are any "Christian Masculinicists" in our party - I would happy to have them leave.


Ex.

"a Christian without a Pit Bull Attitude is a Poodle Christian"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3811461

[tea and oranges]

332. This is just one remark

That it stands out at all is a symptom of how pathetic the Dems have been for years.

We are the opposition party (love the British phrase, The Loyal Opposition), so let the oppositioning keep on happening.

We'll get better at it with practice!

[natrat]

333. GO HOWARD

most of the rest are traitors and should be shot

[PATRICK]

334. To be expected

That the only way for Dean to get mentioned at all would be some "lightning rod" comment that can be spun negatively- immediately.

That the context and the rest of the message will barely leak through.

That the comment will likely contain painful truth.

And worst of all, that First Among Sharks with media scenting blood in the water would be you-know-who kind of Democrats, especially miffed organizational failures and hopeful presidential candidates(who also will also not be quoted unless they have something bad to say about Democrats).

Now, I know there are knotty problems trying to address the media propagandist issue and some value in the controversy when the kernel of truth can weigh in mightily against the sting of offense, but

CAN WE PLEASE GET THROUGH TO THE "OTHER" DEMOCRATS ON THE LAST POINT?

The Attack Riposte Part Two is always refueled by DLC insurgents or people easily trapped into getting on the news by naively accepting the role of thoughtful critic. It is amazing how (most) Dems can get on track about being silent or extremely circumspect OR cautious dry detail parsing about: vote fraud, the phony war, hot issues, loss of America, imminent disasters. Yet nobody can lock the reps and fundraisers and campaign managers in a Sesame Street hotel for when it really is expedient to be careful or silent about a media fueled intra-party squabble.

ABC's: When asked to comment about a controversial issue by the enemy with the sort of trap that Jesus had to face over and over again(taxation, breaking the Sabbath, forgiveness of sins) don't be eager to be a nice, naive participant or cowardly in casting the blame on the Democrat being attacked. Or the appearance thereof by selective quotes. Make a blunt statement that will highlight the truth the media doesn't want to hear in the first place, expose the media role within the statement(turning tables), destroy the paradigm, the debate rules, the expected. And maybe ask them the question: Well how many minorities ARE registered in the GOP and at what income level compared to the Democrats? If it is such a hot comment how about some research?

That is the golden rule for adversarial debate when the the third party in between is doing the opponent's bidding. It is not to pose or allow oneself to be posed as a predictable actor in the circular firing squad.

And the Dems are POLITICIANS for X sake's! The above is advisable for anyone, but politicians. You are trying to score with the people NOT the media gurus. The people not the media. The people looking for competence impressed by incompetent politicians? Competence, not manners avoiding controversy. There IS a difference and the media is NOT neutral in the slightest even if the immediate interviewer seems so or parts of the media(on page 12) allow the semblance of "fairness".

Getting the media to study what is a GOP member these days would be really interesting. Stop helping them divert the issue.

MacAuliffe got roasted when he stuck his neck out too. ANYONE does. The script for the Dean crucifixion has already been written large and in crayon on media bulletin boards. It is not a hard or surprising thing to grasp. It doesn't mean that Dean should dance the DLC ballet complete with tutu, deference, quietism and effuse helpless apologies.

If you didn't take Politics 101 with the Prerequisite core course, Media 100, don't even try to criticize your fellow Democrats.

[baron j]

341. Whatever!

The ignorant and the spinmeisters will get worked up over anything our side says, yet they won't get all in a lather over the blatant lies, deception, corporate cronyism, greed, social darwinism, and destructiveness of the repugs.

His meaning is just being twisted out of context. Go back and look at the participants the gop convention of last year (if you can stomach it), and compare it to ours. The difference in diversity is readily apparent. That, and the repugs had the nerve to hold it in New York city, diversity central.

[really annoyed]

344. No white Christians?

In the Democratic party? I don't think Dean should paint such a broad brush.

There is no doubt that the Democratic party is probably composed of white Christians. Sure, there is a great variety of people in the mix, but not a majority of them.

[wrate]

347. One thing is clear: Dean has some major balls! I think it was a Republican

who came up with the expression: "The nice guy always finishes last". Probably talking about a Democrat. Dean knows this. If anything, it is very refreshing to hear a Democrat state the truth in such unambiguous terms. You go Dean!

[reality based]

349. OK the media has convinced me. Republicans aren't Christians.

At least in the Biblical sense.

[LeahMira]

351. Probably mostly true, but...

... white Christians are the majority and Republican white Christians are proud of themselves for being who they are.

I wonder what Dr. Dean is thinking! Of course many Republicans will spin this as an attack on Christianity while others will spin it as racist while still others will spin it some other way.

There are dozens of "qualities" that distinguish Republicans from Democrats (among whom there are also a few white Christians). Elitist comes to mind. Members of the good old boys club also comes to mind. Then there's arrogant, bullying, and a few other choice terms, all of which can be illustrated with very concrete examples from their behavior and attitides.

For heaven's sake, if you're going to make a statement about someone you don't particularly like, make it about their absolute worst qualities and qualities that most folks quickly agree are obnoxious ones.

Also, it might be wise to consider the fact that there are many black, brown and yellow Christians who will hear this. True, they aren't white, but I wonder how they will feel about the Democratic party leadership when their sincerely held beliefs are characterized as "white Republican."

[Ksec]

357. Probably true but?

We shouldnt be honest about the truth?

Jeesh. Im amazed

[Knight of Ni]

355. Adlai Stevenson explained it best......

"I will make a bargain with the Republicans. If they will stop telling lies about Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."

The Repubs haven't stopped attacking us with lies. They didn't keep up their end of Adlai's "bargain". Why the hell are we keeping ours? The deal is null and void!


What Howard did was get in a clean hit.

[Princess Turandot]

356. The Republican Party during the Bush Administration..

has had a simple and clear intent: to firmly re-establish & entrench an American ruling class. (While that has been their intent for decades, his administration obviously presented them with the best opportunity to do so because of one party dominance in all aspects of government.) Personally, I think that needs to be the talking point of talking points and said in a way that makes it clear that only a small amount of individuals and corporations benefit from their policies and that in the short and long run, far more average Americans are already being hurt by them, and will be hurt more as time passes. That's the ultimate point at which the interests of the Republican party separates from the interests of most Republican voters (many of whom I suspect are not registered Republicans high-rollers) and the interests of the rest of America. The more one broadens a description of Republicans, whether correct or not, the less impact the point has, except to certain of the Democratic faithful.

In a way, it's somewhat irrelevant that Republican voters are substantially Christian or white, except to the extent that one seeks to bring those voters over to our side and needs to figure out how. The most important lack of diversity is not in the religious affiliation of Republican voters or their skin color; the biggest lack of diversity is in the masters whom that party actually serves. That's what needs to be stressed, and I don't think codewords such as 'white Christians' makes that point, especially to lower middle class or poor white Christians who currently vote for Republicans.

After all, when Republicans call Democrats the 'Liberal Elite' they are trying to project their own essence onto us: i.e upper middle class over-educated people who wanted to take your money away and give it to someone else, in our case to those damn 'welfare queens'. That's what needs to be firmly thrown back onto them, in simple, direct terms.

[Ksec]

359. Yep. They have been playing hardball

We are playing tic tac toe.

Dean threw the truth out there and they had a meltdown/ How DARE he speak truth?

[Placebo]

362. Dean will mean the end of the Democratic Party.

:patriot: DUMP. DEAN. NOW. :patriot:

[Chicago Democrat]

364. SHOW SUPPORT FOR DEAN! GIVE TO DNC!!!!

Tonight!

[Ganja Ninja]

365. Dean was wrong!

What he should have said was they are a party of white, Christian posers, pretending to be something they aren't. They are phony, fake, liars, hucksters, con-men & con-women. One thing they aren't are true followers of Jesus Christ. They worship the almighty dollar and they would step on their own grandmother's face to get one. Dean needs to clarify that.

[boohootwo]

366. I really don't like Dean's comment.

I'm white. I'm Christian.

[Justitia]

367. Are you Republican? If not, this doesn't apply to you. -eom

[boohootwo]

369. Referring to a group as " White Christians" and saying it in a

derogatory manner is insulting. And, beleive me, the Democratic party doesn't need to alienate White Christians.

[Justitia]

370. He said "repubs are mostly white Christians". How is that insulting?

Are they ASHAMED of what they are???
It is an accurate demographic.
Why would they be ASHAMED of being identified as exactly what they are?

He was talking about the demographic make-up of the GOP, don't twist it into "all white Christians are GOP", that's a logical fallacy.

[boohootwo]

373. Party leadership should unify & identify THEIR PARTY.

If they choose to attack opposing party, do so in a way that makes THEIR OWN PARTY look good. Bringing race & religion into party identification is not good.

[Justitia]

374. Uh, he DID that. Did you actually read his remarks?? - eom

[boohootwo]

376. He did NOT unify. Most important.

[Justitia]

377. What are you talking about? Dean has been a HUGE unifying force

in our party.

Where have you been? Are you a Democrat, BTW?

[boohootwo]

378. So all you have to do is disagree with someone on DU and

you're a Republican? So much for unity. HA!

[Justitia]

379. I was looking for your perspective. Why don't you want it to be known?

I'm a proud, partisan Democrat.
You should know that when I make stmts about the party, to be able to put them in context.

And just to clarify, I didn't accuse you of being of ANY political party - republican, green, socialist or independent.
You should know that we have mbrs of ALL those here on Democratic Underground.

[mbperrin]

368. I guess they'd like it better if he called them a colored pagan

party, right?

Just checking...

[boohootwo]

371. Poor idea to identify a party by race & religion.

[Justitia]

375. According to who? Republicans?? It's a truthful demographic. -eom

[Norquist Nemesis]

372. WTF??????? "as he TROLLED California"

McAuliffe nailed it: that job is a human firehydrant.