US acts over Israeli arms sales to China

[DoYouEverWonder]

June 13, 2005

The United States has imposed sanctions on Israel after a dispute over Israel's sale of drones - unmanned aerial vehicles - to China, according to news reports.

The US has suspended co-operation on several development projects and frozen delivery of night-vision equipment.

An official at the US embassy in Tel Aviv said he was aware of the reports but would not comment on them. He said the information about the sanctions had come from the Israeli government and not the US.

<snip>

A report in the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz concluded: "Following the crisis, one can sense the repulsion toward Israel among lower- and middle-ranking officials in Washington.

"More and more of them are saying that it is not worth doing business with Israel."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1505184,00.html


The US is imposing sanctions on Israel? Well wonders will never cease.

[xray s]

1. Someone call Pat Robertson

The Rapture is on hold.

[Initech]

2. Huh?

Correct me if I'm wrong but didnt we just sell a bunch of weapons of mass de..., er, cluster bombs to Israel a few weeks ago?

[Frederik]

3. They had to hurry up

before sanctions kicked in

[Initech]

5. WWIII! WWIII!! WWIII! WWIII!!

This time next year?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

7. Will there be a "next year"?

[ninkasi]

11. Probably...

Whether it will be a year we want to live through is something else. Speaking for myself, I'm so sick of Bush, and the neocons, and the right wing fundies, that maybe oblivion would be preferable.

However much pain oblivion would avoid is beside the point. I am here, and so are all of you, and what we can, and must do, is to fight these thugs with every ounce of our being.

Dean has made an excellent start. He is giving us hope, and teaching other Democratic leaders to stand up to the neocons, or become obsolete. So, in the end, there will be a next year if we stand together.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

4. Our steadfast allies were selling military equipment to China??....

...I wonder who they learned that trick from?

[Boneman]

6. Does anyone besides me think this is a might suspicious occuring

right now, supposedly near to an Iran adventure. I think it may be a decoy.

[pie]

8. repulsion toward Israel among low/mid rank Washington officials

Interesting.

[Deja Q]

9. How long before we invade or nuke 'em?

This is a most surprising development.

Why...

[Algomas]

10. No honor among thieves.

[Behind the Aegis]

12. This is good news.

I am sure there are more than a few at this site that are 'drooling' over this and will be glad when Israel gets no funding, or better yet, no longer exists!

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. Oh please

It is Sharon and the Likud that most of us around here have a problem with.

Personally, I have a problem with anyone who wants to help arm our 'enemies', especially when we've spent billions of our tax dollars to support them.

[Behind the Aegis]

14. Oh please, redux

I agree Sharon and the Likud are problems. But, they aren't the only ones.

When did China become our "enemy?"

As for my other assertion, please, read some other sites and you will see that there are some who advocate the only real "solution" to the Israeli issue is to cut her funding completely and let only one nation exist...and it's not the one that is currently there.

[Mairead]

15. "the solution is cut her funding completely and let only one nation exist"

Are you saying that Israel can't exist on its own? That it's a sock puppet, dependent for its very existance on the US?

Is there any other nation in the world in that position? If not, shouldn't that be a hint?

[Behind the Aegis]

22. you read it wrong

Seeing as you took my quote out of context, I will explain. Israel can exist without funding; she might struggle, but she could last. However, I think there are many here, who think that if we just cut all funding that Israel will just fall. The 'one nation' would be Palestine as I pointed out, in the part of the quote you left out, "...and it's not the one that is currently there.", because some do not believe Israel has a right to exist, as I said in my original post.

[Mairead]

25. Your explanation implies that you said it wrong

The way you juxtaposed the two ideas creates the implication that there would be a causal relationship involved: funding goes away, so does Israel. If that wasn't what you meant, then it would have been better to have been more clear. I for one still don't understand what relationship you intended to imply, if not the one I inferred.

[Behind the Aegis]

27. No, you just read it wrong.

" read some other sites and you will see that there are some who advocate the only real "solution" to the Israeli issue is to cut her funding completely and let only one nation exist...and it's not the one that is currently there." The word "and" is used to join ideas; they need not be dependent on one another. Some want funding cut, some want only the nation of Palestine to exist. Those desires do not have to be hinged on one another. Now, some believe that is funding goes away, Israel would fall...that is not the case.

[Colorado Blue]

31. Why is Sharon a problem? He's leading the disengagement

effort.

And regardless of the endless demonization of Likud, I sincerely doubt people really have a clue as to what they really stand for or how they've evolved.

Likud politicians are NOT monolithic in their outlook and the party's platform has changed over the years. Moreover, they've been some of the most effective in reaching out to Arab states. Menachim Begin, for example, signed the peace agreement with Anwar Sadat.

Here's a link to an interesting article from Yale University:

http://www.yaleisraeljournal.com/fall2003/likud.php

Can Likud Make Peace?

By Sharon Goott

While conventional wisdom attests that left-leaning governments are more open to negotiations than are right-leaning governments, the peace agreement between Israel and Egypt, presents a dramatic exception to this common-sense rule. Taking Israel’s historic peace with Egypt signed by Likud’s Menachem Begin as a successful model, and the subsequent failures at peace during the 1980s as unsuccessful models, this article examines the complex interplay of international and domestic factors necessary for peace.

Peace with Egypt involved a combination of factors that may never again be repeated. However, the prolonged success of the peace created by the Camp David Accords makes that process an obvious episode to examine in any attempt to identify preconditions for peace. A Likud government in Israel may be uniquely situated to make peace; constituents know Likud will not overstep certain boundaries because it has earned a reputation for being tough on security. In turn, a left-wing opposition would support any efforts towards peace. However, the experience of Camp David suggests that several different elements must be working in favor of peace for a Likud government to reach an agreement: committed and creative political leaders must emerge on both sides; parties that are willing to negotiate must have a sufficient domestic mandate to make concessions; a third party must provide outside pressure; and there must be an international balance of power that motivates the states to seek peace. A combination of these crucial factors allowed Israel and Egypt to reach their landmark agreement; the absence of one or more of these factors has perhaps doomed subsequent negotiations.

Egypt: Israel’s Partner

Anwar Sadat was a complicated leader who represented a distinct departure from the way that Gamal Abdel Nasser had ruled Egypt. Sadat assumed the presidency in 1970 with specific domestic and international goals that indicated a broader vision of Egypt’s place in the world. His plan included improving the decimated Egyptian economy, liberalizing social policies in Egypt, shifting Egyptian ties away from the Soviet Union and towards the United States, reaching a peace settlement with Israel that would result in the return of the Sinai to Egyptian control, and moving away from a pan-Arab orientation. By stabilizing the Middle East and aligning with the United States, Sadat hoped to secure funding from the U.S. and to increase the flow of foreign capital to Egypt.1 He championed the cause of “Egypt first,” hoping to re-establish Egypt’s dignity and centrality in the Arab world, which had been shaken by the Egyptian defeat in 1967. In addition, attaining peace with Israel would free up money that would otherwise have been spent on the military. More money would then be available for housing the urban poor, whose unrest threatened to destabilize Sadat’s regime.2

A relationship with the United States was of vital importance to Sadat, and if peace with Israel was the price, then Sadat was willing to pay. Sadat desperately wanted to be accepted by the powerful leaders in the world, especially those of the United States. Sadat hoped to turn the U.S. into an ally through his search for peace with Israel, using America as a mediator and honest broker in an unprecedented way. Sadat’s vision paved the way for a fundamental shift in American foreign policy, allowing an American administration to deal directly with an Arab leader for the first time. The increased U.S. involvement would prove crucial when Israelis and Egyptians arrived at impasses in negotiations. Without heavy U.S. involvement, and especially the dedication and perseverance of Ford administration Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, and then President Jimmy Carter, the Egyptian-Israeli peace talks might have stalled permanently at numerous points.3


snip

[Wright Patman]

16. Sorcha Faal's take

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index725.htm

[DoYouEverWonder]

17. Well that certainly would be a distraction

Get your Armageddon, I suppose?

[Mairead]

18. I wonder what sort of name 'Sorcha Faal' is -- it's not Russian

Perhaps it's Israeli?

I think it's quite funny that her site has a 'return to main page' link that points to NPR, as though her site is somehow a legitimate subsidiary. Charming.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. Linguist?

Because her name is not "Russian" and she is writing about Israel, it must be an "Israeli" surname? First, one can live anywhere and have a name of different origin. Second, there is no language called "Israeli" and therefore, a name couldn't be "Israeli." Did you mean to say her name maybe a Hebrew or Arabic surname?

[Mairead]

24. "there is no language called 'Israeli' "

Does your knee hurt when it jerks like that?

The only nation in the world where Hebrew names are found routinely is Israel. I think that allows a certain amount of leeway in labelling, even if you disagree. I might similarly say 'Afghanistani', 'Pakistani', 'Persian'/'Iranian', or 'Cambodian' rather than 'Pushto', 'Urdu', 'Farsi', or 'Khmer' respectively.

[Behind the Aegis]

26. mislabeling

"The only nation in the world where Hebrew names are found routinely is Israel." Really? This must be news to people around the world who have Hebrew names, both first and last. Some of us even have Hebrew names and are originally from Russia. However, I think your intention was very clear.

[Mairead]

28. "Some of us even have Hebrew names and are originally from Russia"

No doubt. But few --perhaps none-- are birthnames, which are transliterated Ashkenazi: Russian Jewish families got their surnames in Germany, Sergej Ajzenshtajn (usually rendered Eisenstein) being a good example.

Oh, and the word 'routinely' should have been a hint that I was talking about 'more often than not', as in: go into a room with a random hundred people and make a bet as to how many will have Hebrew surnames. The number to bet on is zero unless you're in Israel or possibly the former Jewish Autonomous Oblast'.

[Colorado Blue]

29. I'm quite sure that isn't a Hebrew name. It actually sounds

GAELIC, or possibly one of the Nordic languages.

And, judging from her writings, she seems to be Christian and into the paranormal or mystic.

[Mairead]

33. I only suggested Hebrew because I didn't recognise it--and I do

recognise the origin of most names.

'Sorcha' means 'light' in the Gaelic, but 'Faal' doesn't work--doubled vowels aren't used. It's a peculiar name, for sure. It could be Romany, I suppose--the Rom often adopt 'business' names either as disguise or lure.

She claims to have grown up in Leningrad, and she's certainly European by her looks. But she has a book telling the 'allegorical tale of Vanya and her search for knowing the future'. Except that Vanya is the diminutive of Ivan, 'Johnny'. The f. version of Ivan, Ivana, exists in south and west Slavic languages, but I'm not aware of it existing in Russian. So what's she doing, if she's a native Russian speaker?

Oh well, buggrit. Millenium hand and shrimp.

[Behind the Aegis]

34. Gaelic

As found here: Search results for: Faal
(origin: Gaelic.) A rocky place; Fells, Saxon, crags, barren and stony hills. Fales has the same signification. Falaise, a town in France, takes its name from the rocks which surround it.

[Colorado Blue]

35. Do you read Russian? My grandparents were from there but

I never learned the language.

Is it hard? I love Russian literature, it must be breathtaking in the original?

[leesa]

19. Are they selling the stuff we GAVE them?

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. If we didn't give it to them

we certainly paid for it one way or another.

[Colorado Blue]

32. Israel has some of the greatest scientists and researchers

in the world.

I believe the drones were their invention.

You might be interested in an article from the BBC, which I just posted in LBN, detailing the growth of a date palm from a 2,000 year old seed.

It is hoped the plant, famous in ancient days for its medicinal purposes, will yield new remedies for tumors and other diseases.

And, the Israelis are working on innovative desalinization techniques.

They're recently signed a pact with Jordan and the P.A. to build a gigantic water, power and desalinization project that should provide power and fresh water to the region for 50 years, while simultaneously refreshing the Dead Sea.

[sweetheart]

21. Its a sign of weakening US power

Israel snuggles up to the emerging power of the day that has the most
influence in its back yard. Once that was Britain. It became the US
for a while, and now it is increasingly China. Bush has so eroded the
street-cred of US influence and funnily, they've kept it a secret to
keep the jewish lobby silent.

[Colorado Blue]

30. Maybe it's just a sign of people needing to make a living.

Nothing more sinister than that.

We've armed most of the planet after all, and used Israel during the Iran/Iraq war, to arm Iran - while WE armed Iraq.

So all this tsuris because Israel sells some weapons I find both sad and amusing.

Something else that's sort of funny here: China is one of our hugest trading partners and one of our hugest creditors. They're hardly an enemy.

However, care must be taken not to alarm Russia.

[Darranar]

36. A number of thoughts...

I don't care in the slightest that Israel is "our" ally, and is therefore "betraying us." The American Empire, as a force aimed at imperial dominance, a force corrupt to the core, is hardly something to be supported. There is no good reason that Israel should be any more attached to it than to China other than reasons of power, and reasons of power seem to be tied to this decision, so the point is moot.

International politics has nothing to with "loyalty." It is mostly a matter of advancing one's own interests, sometimes at the expense of other nations, sometimes in alliance with other nations.

This is a sign of decreasing US hegemony - a process that is positive in many aspects, not least because the decentralization of power is essential to any world where some modicum of justice can be achieved. China is achieving quite a bit of progress in its rivalry with the US; its leaders seem to be rather competent, gathering strength where US imperialism is faltering due to incompetence and intense popular opposition.

An Israeli desire to stop dealing so much with the US may also help Middle East peace initiatives; dealing with nations less willing to accomodate Israeli policy when it angers Arabs will likely have that effect.