Christian group's attempt to convert gay people sparks protests

[Chauga]

Can gay people be turned straight? If you ask the Christian group, Love In Action, the answer is yes. If you ask most mental health associations, they'd say no and that reparative therapy can be emotionally scarring.

But the parents of a Bartlett teenager hope that LIA will straighten out their son. Last Monday, these parents forced their son into LIA's youth program, Refuge, at the group's headquarters in a former church building in Raleigh.

Ordinarily, this wouldn't be news; lots of well-intentioned parents have sought to change their child's God-given sexuality. But this Bartlett 16-year-old, who came out to his parents just weeks ago and whom I won't name, keeps a Weblog. Thousands around the world have been following his saga online.

"They tell me that there is something psychologically wrong with me," he wrote on his blog May 29. "I'm a big screw up to them, who isn't on the path God wants me to be on. So I'm sitting here in tears... and I can't help it."

http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/news_columnists/article/0,1426,MCA_646_3853123,00.html

[sniffa]

1. sniffa's queering up camp

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x3447916

[DinahMoeHum]

2. If G*d didn't make gays and lesbians, there wouldn't be any.

n/t

[Lerkfish]

26. excellent! I may quote you.

if this comes up again.

[dhinojosa]

64. That is a good quote....

Oh Bartlett, where are you?

[tk2kewl]

66. A fundie would probably tell you that god made 'em straight and

the devil turned 'em gay. They would discount your statement out of hand because it doesn't fit their narrow view of the world.

[Montanan]

70. Yep, it's all Beelzebub's doing...

Fundies are taught to say that in their Sales Seminars...er, I mean in their Sunday Schools.

[The Doctor.]

3. Morons.

[insane_cratic_gal]

4. your teen is gay yet

your going to stick him in a home with other gay teens?

and this will cure him? LOL

If you haven't rented "Saved." I'd suggest you do so

[Zenlitened]

7. I think these kids should be steered toward athletics. A manly sport...

... like wrestling, perhaps.


Parents (sternly): "We think some good old fashioned sports will get this "gay" nonsense out of your system. So we've signed you up for the wrestling team this fall."

Gay teen (whispers): "Thank you, God!"

:D

[XemaSab]

40. Exactly

n/t

[HughBeaumont]

13. "But I'm A Cheerleader" is another good movie on this subject.

[Pawel K]

61. LOL, great point.

:rofl:

But you wont get very far using reason around those people.

[annarbor]

5. Don't worry....

At age 21 I was a staunch Evangelical that had been "healed" of the sin of homosexuality. I was in church at least three days a week; I spoke in tongues and danced in the spirit every Sunday. I joined the Marine Corps because of a lack of jobs here in Michigan. Once I arrived in boot camp and was surrounded by all of those gorgeous women Marines, I quickly learned that all that "healing" was nothing more than bullshit.....

Praise God for gorgeous women!

Ann Arbor

[The Doctor.]

15. Amen!

[central scrutinizer]

6. If any of those kids committ suicide,

the blood will be on the hands of those self-righteous control freaks.

[donco6]

10. Actually, there was quite a controversy about that.

"I would rather you commit suicide than have you leave Love In Action wanting to return to the gay lifestyle. In a physical death you could still have a spiritual resurrection; whereas, returning to homosexuality you are yielding yourself to a spiritual death from which there is no recovery." --The Final Indoctrination from John Smid, Director, Love In Action (LIA)

http://www.cherrybloss.org/2005/06/protest-against-love-in-action-day-two.html

[central scrutinizer]

12. that's fucking sick logic

so: if you committ suicide because you can't deny your homosexuality, that will somehow save you?

[donco6]

18. The "ducking stool" somehow comes to mind.

Maybe that's how that warped idea got started in teh first place?

[central scrutinizer]

24. good analogy

you're right - this is just like the Inquisition or the Salem witch trials. Torture you until you either die from the torture or admit to being a heretic so they can kill you for being a heretic.

[prodigal_green]

58. Clearly not Catholic

as suicide is the only unforgivable sin. It is the sin of despair, of not trusting God, rather than self-murder that condemns you to hell.

On edit: Wasn't heavy metal music on trial in the 1980s/early 90s for "causing" or encouraging suicide. It was AC/DC, I believe that were actually dragged into court over a teen's suicide. Would this organization be legally responsible if one of their members killed him- or herself?

[icymist]

78. That way no one alive can say this sick program don't work.

Isn't it a crime to encourage suicides? Shouldn't someone prosecute this man and his group?

[99Pancakes]

23. OMG!!!

Is that a genuine statement! WTF!!!!

Here's their logo. Is encouraging them to kill themselves part of that "love in action".

[donco6]

27. Yep, it's genuine all right.

And the LIA folks don't even really get what the fuss is about.

Here's the scoop on the origins of LIA:

Love In Action

Love in Action, or LIA, was founded in 1973 by John Evans, who claimed to be a former homosexual, and Rev. Kent Philpott, a heterosexual. It was the first group to publicize cases of homosexuals who had allegedly been converted or learned to abstain from homosexuality or homosexual feelings, which were perceived as sinful and in violation of biblical moral code. After Evans' friend Jack McIntyre committed suicide out of despair concerning his inability to change, Evans left the project and denounced it as dangerous. He was quoted by the Wall Street Journal (April 21, 1993) as saying: "They're destroying people's lives. If you don't do their thing, you're not of God, you'll go to hell. They're living in a fantasy world." Shortly after founding the group, when his patients numbered six, Philpott wrote a book about his ministry called "The Third Sex?," which claimed that his patients had successfully changed their sexual orientation through prayer. His patients, who had not changed their orientation, confronted him, but he said it was "God's will" that the book be written. None of the men ever successfully changed their sexual orientation, and four of them, including Evans, filed suit against Philpott for misrepresenting them in the book. Rather than face the suit, Philpott had the book pulled off the market.

[99Pancakes]

28. Good!

Ha! The book got pulled from the market--good for them!

[Raster]

43. Five minutes alone with the good reverend, that's all I ask...

just five little minutes.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

36. ditto that

I'm speechless...

[AndyTiedye]

45. Is That a Burning Cross?

These people seem about as Christian as the KKK.

[99Pancakes]

50. Looks like some Christian city

after a tsunami.

[Montanan]

72. Moranopolis

[dhinojosa]

65. They misspelled their name

there is no space between In and Action.

[lildreamer316]

75. I think that is supremely ironic .n/t

[struggle4progress]

35. Nothing communicates Christian love quite like encouraging unhappy kids ..

.. to kill themselves. :grr: It would really be better for John Smid, if a millstone were tied around his neck and he were cast into the sea, than that he encourage such terminal despair ...

[Biased Liberal Media]

46. Isn't it against that religion to commit suicide??

WTF?

[geniph]

67. Um, hello, most Christians

believe suicide is a worse sin than homosexuality! I can't believe that idiot actually SAID that! Besides being unChristian, it's just plain EVIL to tell a kid who's already troubled and confused about their sexuality that you'd rather have them DIE than be who they are!

:mad:

[shawn703]

81. I think it's only Catholics

and other denominations who believe every sin must be confessed and repented of or you will go to hell. Since you can't confess to committing suicide, that makes sense if that's what you believe. But many fundamentalist denominations believe once saved, always saved, and that even those who commit suicide can get to heaven.

I think it is interesting that God assisted Samson in his own suicide.

Judges 16:28-30
28 And Samson called unto the LORD, and said, O Lord GOD, remember me, I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once, O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes.29 And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.30 And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than which he slew in his life.

[ekelly]

8. They would be stomping their feet

....if someone opened a youth program with the intention of "fixing" Christians (or any other religious believers).

Why can't they see that forcing their religion on others is religious persecution?

Do they understand it, but not care?
Or do they truly not get it?

[jobycom]

11. If you really want to understand what they think, I can tell you

I'm not defending them.

They believe that they hold the truth to eternal life and happiness, that their belief is right and everyone else's is wrong, that God has shown them a glorious truth which will save the life of anyone who accepts it, and that all other paths are attempts by the devil to lead people astray. They are told by their Bible and by their preachers that to remain silent when they have a chance to testify to a non-believer or a sinner is a sin itself. They are told that love and goodness requires them to testify, and to do all in their power to save. If you work for Amway and you recruit someone you get brownie points, but if you work for God and recruit someone you get merits in Heaven and you save the soul of another human being.

Yes, they believe that what they do is done for love, for the betterment of the person they are "saving." They are, in effect, good people doing what they believe is the highest good they can accomplish on Earth. From the outside, it's quite obvious that they are doing wrong, but in their minds, and hearts, they are motivated by goodness, and cannot see themselves as bad people. If you convince them to give up on the effort to save someone, they will feel in their hearts as though they have given in to evil and fear for giving up.

Again, I don't believe they are right, but that's what they are thinking.

That's why I don't like any political path that ridicules these people, any more than I like any path which legitimizes or empowers them. Religion and government should be separated by an insurmountable wall, and these matters should be private matters, and any politician who brings religion into a campaign should be pelted with eggs and denounced from every pulpit, street corner and radio program in the nation until they are forced to retire from public life and work at a snow cone shop on a rural country highway.

Having said that, the parents should be horsewhipped. And so should their minister, with even more lashes.

[Maat]

25. Well, I think that you have done a good job of getting inside their heads.

But this is too dangerous to ignore!

Someone could commit suicide!

This is emotional abuse. The county needs to go out there and threaten to take any licenses they have away unless the end this 'suicide is better' talk, in my humble opinion.

I, as a retired social worker, honor someone's private religious beliefs, especially a parent's. And I was always able to work these conflicts out with a parent, usually by getting the parents to go to a PFLAG meeting.

Usually, I'm for butting out, in a lot of cases, but not here.

Thoughts?

[jobycom]

34. I didn't say to ignore it

I didn't comment on what they were doing at all, except to say they should be horsewhipped. I just answered the question about why parents do these kinds of things.

As for what I think should be done, the secular authorities should investigate to make sure no one is practicig medicine or psychology without a license, and to make sure they are not violating any laws if there are licenses. I think a medical board should analyze what is going on and, in a scientific manner, should decide what harm is being done, especially to minors. Religion shouldn't enter into it at all--which is where the wall comes into play. This organization should be investigated on purely medical grounds, with no reference or deference to religious beliefs.

If laws are being broken, punish. If safety--mental or physical--is being endangered, close it down and consider pressing abuse charges against the parents. If they are just preaching, let them preach. It sounds like more than preaching to me, though.

As for getting inside their heads, that's how I grew up. I know the terrible guilt that accompanies seeing someone who isn't "saved" and not preaching to them. You feel the same way a fireman would feel passing a burning house and not being able to rescue a child on the third floor. Fortunately for me (and my friends) I could also see other sides to the questions--not everyone can.

[Maat]

38. I agree. I agree. I agree. (n/t).

And I, for one, certainly didn't miscontrue what you said. I understood, and hope that you didn't take offense to my reply.

I kind of was just thinking aloud.

I do think that the authorities have things to investigate here (not aimed at religion) aimed at seeing if there are competent staff members who know how to address suicidality (I'm fairly sure that they do not have mental health professionals on staff by the sound of things on the kid's blog).

[Ian David]

16. I say we should try it.

Let's start a group that tries to convert straight white Christians into gay atheists.

We could preach on the sidewalks.

[Bigmack]

20. Preach on the sidewalks....

and carry signs that encourage the "saved" to repent and use reason rather than dogma to run their lives.

Actually, we owe it to them.... owe it to the world.... to heal them. They're hurting themselves and their children with all that guilt and self-loathing. They're dangerous to the world because they want everybody to believe like they do, and are willing to kill anybody who won't get their theology straight.

Imagine the signs.... imagine the chants...

[Ian David]

21. "Hi, are you a homosexual? We can help you BECOME a homosexual..."

It would be a hoot, wouldn't it?

[UCLA Dem]

9. Poor kid. Those parents are such idiots.

[SoCalDem]

14. So.. where is the group that will be converting

Asians, African-Americans, and Hispanics..Why can't they too be "converted" into white straight 'Murikins?

Oh wait.. their skin color is in their genetic make-up...just like :eyes:

[Ian David]

17. The Mormons believe people can be turned white

According to Mormon dogma:

1) Native Americans have red skin because Jesus came to America and was rejected by the Indians. So Jesus turned their skin red.

2) Black people have dark skin because they are descended from Caine who killed Abel and they bear his sin.

3) If these non-white people becomes Mormons and they're really, really, REALLY good, their skin will actually lighten and they may someday get into Heaven.

On the other hand, there's Michael Jackson...

[FlaGranny]

22. All I can say to that is -

YIKES!!!

[FreeState]

31. Almost correct

According to Mormon dogma:

1) Native Americans have red skin because Jesus came to America and was rejected by the Indians. So Jesus turned their skin red.

Nope LDS doctrine is that their skin changed color way before that. When the Nephites came to America Nephi's brother's (Lamen and Lemual) skin became dark (Lamanites) because they became evil and disobeyed their brother and father. This is about 600 B.C.

2) Black people have dark skin because they are descended from Caine who killed Abel and they bear his sin.

This and in the 'pre-existance' they could not decide to follow Jesus or Lucifer (fence sitters). Thus they were cursed so we could see who was not a follower of Jesus. For more information look for the first printing of "Mormon Doctrine" by Bruce McConckie (the newer versions have taken this out). Or just do a search online for Brigham Young and racism.

3) If these non-white people becomes Mormons and they're really, really, REALLY good, their skin will actually lighten and they may someday get into Heaven.

Yep - in the next life and even in the present LDS believe that their skin will become "Light and Delightsum" if they are faithful.

Disclaimer: I am a former Mormon and do not personally believe any of the above.

[Conker]

33. That's weird logic.

Did the bible ever discuss non-white skin color as a bad thing?Can the LIA get arrested for encouraging the kid to commit suicide?

[Raster]

42. just a little addendum from a former mormon, the church also preaches

that the American Indians are the lost tribe of Israel which has been CONCLUSIVELY genetically disproven.

Funny this should come up, just thinking along these lines this morning.

[CreekDog]

57. Is Michael Jackson LDS?

Because I notice that he has turned white over the years.

And he seems to like children a lot too.

[bobbieinok]

71. I've heard this from a former Mormon...1 of the many beliefs they do NOT

publicize

another belief.....if a Mormon MAN does everything he is supposed to, eventually sometime after death he will stand to a universe as God stands to our universe

publicizing this belief should/would/could make Pentecostal, So Bapts, and others who work with Mormons on religious wrong issues pull back

[brentspeak]

19. I'm beginning to think there are more gay (closeted) Republicans

than there are (openly) gay Democrats.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

29. "Republic of T." Blog Has More to Say

Republic of T.

It links to the kid's blog.

[sakabatou]

30. I rmember a few days ago

about another teen, maybe the same, kept a weblog. His name is Zach.

[HockeyMom]

32. These people are pushing me to become a Atheist

and take my gay daughter with me.

[Biased Liberal Media]

47. My mother was brainwashed by Exodus

and that is one of the reasons I am Agnostic now.

I can't sit here and believe in any god that would bear doom on a person because of their sexuality. Truly, it's disgusting.

[Redstone]

37. If that kid wants to run away, he can come to our house.

We have plenty of room, and would treat him like a human being, not like a freak.

Redstone

[Maat]

39. And, when I was a social worker, that's how it worked out sometimes.

Sometimes, the best thing for a kid was to grant a guardianship to one of his friend's parents, for example.

And sometimes the judge had to warn the victim-teenager's parents that placing the kid with another family was better than a kid winding up on the streets (which was generally where things were heading) or dead (from suicide).

[deadparrot]

41. I left the kid a message.

Took a while to register with the site, but it was worth it.

They're not even allowed to HUG each other at this program. I can't imagine any parent doing this. :puke:

[Ladyinblack]

44. "Christian group's attempt to convert gay people sparks protests"

Sexual preferences are hard wired at an early age or in some cases from birth. You could no more turn a heterosexual person into a homosexual person than you could turn a homosexual person into a heterosexual person. This is the data.

What they are doing to this young man is terrible. I hope he gets a lot of support because he needs it.

[Solon]

48. Welcome to DU Ladyinblack...

I definately agree that it is a terrible thing to force him to try to change who he is. I believe the same as you as far as regarding sexual orientation. Wonderful first post!

[Sgent]

49. These FUCKS are sick

Safekeeping Rules

1. All new Refuge clients will be placed into Safekeeping for the initial two to three days of their program. A client on safekeeping may not communicate verbally, or by using hand gestures or eye contact, with any other clients, staff members, or his/her parents or guardians. In case of a practical need, Safekeeping clients may write down their question or request and show it to another client, staff member, or their parent or guardian. Writing may only be used when absolutely necessary. Parents and guardians must enforce their child¹s safekeeping status at home or in their temporary lodging.

2. Refuge clients may C.O.C. to be removed from Safekeeping status. Safekeeping clients will be removed from Safekeeping at their staffworker¹s discretion.

3. Any client may be placed into Safekeeping at any time, at a staffworker¹s discretion.

4. Safekeeping clients are permitted to say ³hello² and to communicate enough information to be courteous in public interaction (mostly in the clients¹ church setting).

5. Safekeeping clients are required to spend a minimum of two hours (in one sitting) a day alone in their room (note: by ³alone² it is understood that parents or guardians can be in the room but are not to interact or disrupt the alone time of the safekeeping client). During the alone time Safekeeping clients may work on their treatment plans, read program materials or the Bible, pray, or work on other assignments from their staffworkers.

6. In the evenings, all Refuge Safekeeping clients must remain at home or at their temporary lodging with their parent or guardian (i.e. no going out to eat, to the store, etc. during Safekeeping.)

7. Non-Safekeeping clients are responsible to protect and uphold the Safekeeping parameters of the Safekeeping client

Zacks depressing blog

God this is horrible. I'm not even gay and would go nuts (although you do get immediately dismissed for physical violence... I'd probably test that rule and have never been in a real fight in my life)

[geniph]

68. Those rules sound like textbook brainwashing

All they need is to leave the overhead light on 24 hours a day and wake the kids up every couple of hours, and after a couple of weeks, those kids could be made to do or say anything. Sick bastids. Poor kids might as well be at Gitmo.

[99Pancakes]

76. I don't get what the treatment plan is

The gay fellow ("client") seems to be silently, solemnly "hanging out", reading scripture, doing homework, going to church with their eyes down and.....well, this image almost evokes wrists cuffed behind one's back and ankles chained to prevent escape.

Idea:
With reverence, open your mini-notepad, flip to an empty page and write, "FUCK UP". Show it to your Safekeeper. That doesn't break any rules. You can't be violent, but what about hostile? Not a word was uttered.(Of course, IMHO, a quick shove to a Safekeeper could more easily get you out ASAP). Ha!

[annabanana]

52. Welcome Lady..

I believe that when he gets back, if he can get online, or to his support base (sadly, not his natal family) he should be ok.

[Chicago Democrat]

51. ALL GAY PEOPLE NEED TO TRY TO CONVERT CHRISTIANS!~

Its my mission for this week.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

53. the movie "But I'm a Cheerleader" comes to mind. eom

[brentspeak]

54. Has anyone checked to see if this kid's blog is legit?

This brain-washing institute allows its residents to have laptops and an internet connection?

Maybe this is someone else claiming that to be this kid.

[Sgent]

60. Anything is possible

but this isn't a kid that just picked up a laptop and started to see what kind of reaction he could get.

That blog has entries from Jan 12 saying he was gay.

[Pacifist Patriot]

55. That is absolutely heartbreaking.

I wish I could take him in my arms and assure him he is a cherished human being just as he is.

[arwalden]

56. That Christian Group Is Intellectually And Socially Backward. And...

... they are hateful homophobic bigots. Not very "Christian" of them.

[RalphReedsWreckedEm]

59. Support My Ex-Republican Ministry

I am starting a new Christian ministry that reaches out to Republicans who are trapped in their harmful and destructive alternative lifestyle. Republicanism is a lifestyle choice, not a genetic condition, and it can be successfully treated and even reversed by the healing blood of Jesus.

I will be applying for my 501 c (3) tax exemption soon, and will start collecting large sums of tax free cash for my ministry, which will of course require a private jet and a Mercedes S600, among other necessities. I hope that you will support this important Christian mission field.

[geniph]

69. I think you'll need a large number of nubile teenage girls

as your minions, too. Or boys if you prefer. Or both if you swing that way.

;-)

on edit: Gawd, how ironic that this particular post should be ... number 69.

[YankeyMCC]

62. There is a movie

"But I'm a cheerleader" where a girl gets sent to a "program" like this to straighten her out.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0179116/

F'n hilarious.

[noonwitch]

63. These need to be CPS situations

If the kid wants to go to one of these programs, fine. If he or she doesn't, that child should be able to call CPS and get out of the house to a foster home, not an institution (other than a temporary shelter for a few days).

Those programs are emotional abusive.

[napi21]

73. I'd rather see them trying to convert gays than see them

trying to convert the country from the WH, Congress & the courts!

Please, I don't mean to be mean to anyone. I'm just saying that many Christians, including the Catholic ones, are told to go forth and spread the word of God. I heard that all through 12 years of Catholic school, but they NEVER said "try to get Catholics in gov't so we can make favorable laws." In fact, they said the opposite! We were told to stay out of gov't stuff, it has no place in the church and we have no place in it.

If they really believe they should be teaching Gods words, I'd rather see them talking to gays, and try to prove their case. It keeps them out of Christianizing our gov't, makes 'em feel like they're doing good, and I suspect most gays won't be swayed.

[UncleSepp]

77. I hear you, and respectfully point out a few things

I don't think that being involved in a convert-the-gays activity necesarily keeps a person out of political activity. It might at the moment, but so does lunch.

Second, the "conversion" activity going on in this article isn't talking to gays and trying to prove a case. It's false imprisonment and psychological abuse of teenagers. If it were just talking, that wouldn't be much to write about.

Peace be with you :-)

Tell me, when watching Star Wars, did you ever have the compulsion to answer back to the screen "And also with you" after every "May the Force be with you!" Or was that just me? :-D

[thrift_store_angel]

74. Love In Action Press Release

Press Conference
LIA will be hosting a press conference on Thursday, June 16, 2005 at 11 a.m. at our facility at 4780 Yale Road. For more information, contact Tommy Corman at [phone] or [e-mail].


Oh goodie they get a platform to justify their actions. :sarcasm:

Here is a notice they released today:

MEMPHIS, Tennessee, June 15, 2005: Love in Action International, a Christ-centered Memphis-based international recovery treatment center, is calling upon the community to extend open-minded consideration and tolerance towards young people with same-sex attraction who are currently undergoing the organization’s youth program called Refuge.

Controversy over an individual’s right to self-determination and choice in sexuality has recently been the subject of current debate. Also under assault is the right of parents to determine appropriate therapeutic intervention for minor children according to social and personal conscience. Community and youth leaders, as well as individuals, who have been through the Love in Action International program, will address these issues at a press conference being held tomorrow.

"open-minded consideration and tolerance"

no comment *cough**cough*

[speedingbullet]

79. Have they read the gospel?

In the book I read, Jesus hung out with hookers, lepers, tax collectors and other "undesirables". I thought that the message is that everyone is a sinner and salvation is for everyone. Jesus' message was one of inclusion, not exclusion. Or did I read the wrong book?

[Felix Mala]

80. I thought the two guys who started this "ministry" ran off together.

Maybe it was another, similar group.