Efforts grow to end ban on gay soldiers

[siliconefreak]

The Associated Press
Updated: 5:31 p.m. ET June 14, 2005

NEW YORK - Critics of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy are gaining new allies, including a few conservative members of Congress and a West Point professor, as they press on multiple fronts to overturn the ban on out-of-the-closet gays and lesbians in the armed forces.

As part of their strategy, opponents of the policy are now highlighting the ongoing struggles of Army and Marine recruiters. The Servicemembers Legal Defense Network says in a new report that many highly trained specialists — including combat engineers and linguists — are being discharged involuntarily while the Pentagon “is facing extreme challenges in recruiting and retaining troops.”

More: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8218961/

[UCLA Dem]

1. Beggers can't be choosers.

[jobycom]

8. ROFL-- Perfect comment! nt.

[Kikosexy2]

2. Desperate times...

calls for desperate measures....you think gay soldiers are willing to fight in an illegal war just to get their hands on some "man in uniform" dick fantasy??...I sure won't...

[babylonsister]

3. So let me get this straight (no pun intended);

gay people can't live legally with the one they love, but they're good enough to fight and die for their country? I think the former needs to be changed before the latter can happen. :eyes:

[DIKB]

5. IF this happens...

I hope this will give grounds to fight for equality and equal rights, marriage, sharing of properties, inheritance rights, etc. If these men and women can fight and die for our country there is NO WAY they can continue to be treated like 2nd class citizens.

[jobycom]

9. Didn't help black soldiers after WWI or II

or even earlier. They could die, but not live. It's an American tradition.

[IndianaGreen]

17. Fundies probably want to put gay soldiers on point

I am against any effort that sends more people to war!

[mitchtv]

26. What ? and take all the Latinos off point?

I think you've got it.

[siliconefreak]

4. My cynical side...

says, "Let the military starve for soldiers. Maybe we'll have fewer wars."

My better side still holds hope that the military will finally recognize that "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" has been tragic.

[Ian David]

7. I agree with your cynical side. You know what my PARANOID side says?

The real reason they don't want gays in the military is because they don't want gays to learn how to defend themselves.

[krkaufman]

Or... treating gays different relative to the military...

... institutionalizes disparate treatment of gays, making other discrimination of gays easier to legalize.

[dhinojosa]

6. So, you should give them the freedom to marry because they fought for it..

Ah the weird aspect of war.

[ismnotwasm]

10. Too late

My daughter says there are quite a few lesbians in the army. To me the focus seems to be on the MEN for some reason. What the fuck are they afraid of? I. just. don't. understand. And to my gay brothers and sisters in the military out there, thank you for your service. Sorry your boss is such an asshole. Hold your head up, maybe we can get through this insanity together.

[krkaufman]

11. Rachel Maddow discussed this on her AAR show this morning

Rachel underscored that "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" proponents are F-o-S with respect to their claim that gays in deployed units is a negative -- as evidenced by a recent report that "... Deployed Units Far Less Likely to Discharge Gay Personnel."

See: http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=48733

Here's the snippet from Rachel's 6/14/05 blog...

Get your sharp stick and dress it up in camo because today we are poking the soft white Underbelly of the right wing scheme machine that forms and executes military policy. More specifically: http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=48733">Don't Ask, Don't Tell. The President clings to this pathetic capitulation to the homophobic right even though the overall discharge rate of gay people has gone down 47%. The talking point goes once real soldiers are in the foxhole they won't be able to fight with a bunch of queers around, right? The right wingers scream "military readiness!" while ignoring that what undermines military readiness the most is NOT HAVING ENOUGH MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY. And how do lose members of the military? By kicking them out in droves. Well, if that was your goal, Mr. President, go ahead, dress up in a flight suit and land on the S.S. Bad Idea because this really is a case of Mission Accomplished.

http://shows.airamericaradio.com/maddow

[gratuitous]

12. Let's see, gays are good enough to pay taxes

But not good enough to marry each other. Some on the Right now want them to be able to go fight and die in battle, but they can't avoid discrimination in housing or employment.

Does this picture seem a little, I dunno, queer to anyone else?

[Ian David]

13. Here's a fundie group opposed to gays in the military

From The Center for Military Readiness

CMR ANALYZES CANDIDATES’ VIEWS ON GAYS IN THE MILITARY
9/7/2004 10:06:00 AM

The Center for Military Readiness is encouraging voters to evaluate the views of the major presidential candidates on all matters of national defense, including social issues such as homosexuals in the military. In particular, CMR has released a new article discussing the actions and inactions of Republican candidate President George W. Bush with regard to the 1993 law banning homosexuals from the military.

<snip>

CMR President Elaine Donnelly noted with approval that the 2004 Republican National Platform affirmed the principle--codified by Congress in 1993--that “homosexuality is incompatible with military service.” She added, however, that the Bush Administration has needlessly confused the issue by retaining Clinton-era enforcement regulations, known as “don’t ask, don’t tell,” which are inconsistent with the law that Congress actually passed. The administration’s position is analyzed elsewhere on this website under Issues/Gays in the Military.

The 2004 Democratic National Platform, which declares that “all patriotic Americans should be allowed to serve our country” appears in a paragraph addressing civil rights, not national defense. The Kerry/Edwards website calls for an end to “don’t ask, don’t tell,” Bill Clinton’s convoluted enforcement regulations that are frequently confused with the 1993 law. Note: Both sides in the debate oppose “don’t ask, don’t tell” for entirely different reasons.

In a January 27, 1993, floor speech, Sen. Kerry defined homosexuals in the military as an issue essential to “win respect as a nation.” CMR President Elaine Donnelly challenged Kerry’s priorities, and said that “Military personnel policies should not be rooted in the arrogant manifestos of naïve civilians and social engineers who want to take liberalism to an extreme. Voters need to consider the views of both candidates before they choose the next Commander in Chief.” --END

More:
http://www.cmrlink.org/HMilitary.asp?docID=231


See also:

<snip>

WILL U.S. MILITARY BE FORCED TO CONFORM TO PRO-HOMOSEXUAL, PRO-FEMINIST PROCEDURES OF NATO AND U.N.?

Elaine Donnelly of the Center for Military Readiness warns (CMR Notes, June 2000) that promotion of feminist and homosexual egalitarianism as the highest priority for the military over the objective of military readiness "inevitably leads to women in all combat positions, and open homosexuality in the military. It also leads to collateral policies that detract from readiness and the needs of the military."

About mounting pressures, Donnelly observes that there is "reason for concern...about mounting pressures from international courts and mandates associated with the European Union, NATO, and the United Nations. Demands for 'consistency' with our allies could force America to adopt problematic policies that potential adversaries would never accept."

CANADA'S EXAMPLE IS A WARNING

Donnelly points out that "Recent budget cuts have created severe shortages and hardships in the Canadian Forces (CF), but the Advisory Board has nevertheless insisted that 'The goal of diversity in the CF should not and must not be compromised by budgetary limitations.' Hence the push for a hugely expensive proposition, the assignment of women to submarines, and a number of costly luxuries that are collateral to social change. Examples include a tax-funded 'gender-reassignment' sex-change operation for a homosexual soldier, $2.4 million to design a 'combat bra' and other items for pregnant combat soldiers, all-inclusive sensitivity training programs, and recruiting posters that show images of 'people working together' instead of pictures of tanks, ships, and fighter jets."

More:
http://www.conservativeusa.org/defensecuts.htm

[samsingh]

14. this only has to do with getting people into the military

gays and straights should avoid the military.

[David Zephyr]

15. George W. Bush to recruiters regarding homosexuals: "Bring 'em on"

I would urge all gay and lesbian Americans not to join up with the Armed Forces and die or be wounded only to be discharged without benefits in many cases. It isn't worth it.

Let them change the law in Congress first and only then.

[Ian David]

16. I think every draft-age person should catch "The Pink Flu"

When the military recruiter calls, or the draft board shows up, wouldn't it be funny if everyone suddenly "called-in gay" to the army?

[David Zephyr]

18. Pink Flu, Indeed!

:thumbsup:

[SaveAmerica]

20. Heading to Canada is to the draft duringVietnam War

as The Pink Flu is to the 2005 draft.

[applegrove]

19. Do we know of any gay soldiers who have paid the ultimate price

for their country? I'd like to see more of that.

[wakeme2008]

21. there were open gays and lesbians in the Army during the Vietnam War

and alot of lesbians with Top Secret clearances......

[Sanity Claws]

22. Just in time for the draft

I always thought that if the draft happened, you could claim to be homosexual and they would not draft you. Have to think of something else now.

[rainbow4321]

23. 41 health care workers...

<snip>
It said those discharged last year included 41 health care professionals, 30 sonar and radar specialists, 20 combat engineers, 17 law enforcement agents, nine language specialists and seven biological/chemical warfare specialists.
<snip>



Then the military needs to look no further on WHY they are having a medical worker shortage...if they can afford to discharge these folks, they need to quit their bitching about the shortage...and not dare start the medical/special skills draft.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8143733

While media reports have focused on the problems the Army and Marine Corps are having with recruitment, the retention of highly trained specialists is as serious, if not more so, for the long-term ability of the military to sustain operations around the globe. Kiley notes that some 36,000 medical staff – doctors, nurses, technicians — have deployed to southwest Asia from the Army alone in the past four years. That is not only time away from home, but in some cases an interruption of their training as internists or medical students.

[damntexdem]

24. OK, we can't recruit, so we welcome gays to die for oil.

But don't try to settle in Texas should you survive the military.

[PunkPop]

25. Waging war takes precedence over bigotry

in the list of American priorities don't you know.