Pilots' joke flight ended in death

[kskiska]

Two airline pilots joked and laughed as they flew an empty commercial jet to its limits, switched seats in mid-air and ignored automated warnings before crashing into a residential area, a cockpit voice recorder has revealed.

Captain Jesse Rhodes and First Officer Peter Cesarz were both killed after they decided to "have a little fun" and take the 50-seat Pinnacle Airlines jet they were flying to 41,000ft - the limit of its capability. No one was hurt on the ground in Jackson City, Missouri, where the plane came down after suffering catastrophic engine failure.

"Ooh look at that," Mr Cesarz said, apparently referring to cockpit readings. "Pretty cool."

"Man, we can do it. Forty-one it," the captain replied. "Forty thousand, baby."

Two minutes later Mr Cesarz said: "Made it, man."

more…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1506514,00.html

[annabanana]

1. Candidates for the Darwin Awards, fer sher!. . . . n/t

[MissB]

6. They should be at the top of the list.

Hopefully.

[Joebert]

2. Now, the real question.

Do their next of kin get sent the bill for the airplane?

In these corporate times, would you be surprised?

[Godhumor]

19. Japanese already do this

While I was in Japan, JR, the largest train system in the country, announced a new policy to prevent people from cimmitting suicide by jumping in front of trains as they pulled into stations. I remember when this was first implemented...here is a clipping from a new story about this policy.



Japanese Families Billed for Relative's Suicide
Aug 18, 2002

TOKYO — Committing suicide carries the ultimate cost — life. But just in case anyone thinks that taking their own lives would be an easy way out, perhaps a little deeper thought is called for. In addition to the grief, heartbreak and emotional burdens that come with suicide, comes a very hefty price tag.

Although Shukan Hoseki (10/1/98) notes a vast majority of Japan's 25,000-plus suicides a year take place in the homes of those that choose to die, a popular method for many people is jumping in front of a train. And because so many commuters are affected, railway companies charge relatives of the victim exorbitant fees.

"Trains don't usually stop too long after a suicide, there's rarely much damage to carriages and we rarely have to send anyone off to catch trains on different lines. In that regard, train suicides probably don't cost too much," says an employee of a commuter line. "But to make sure we can cover the costs incurred when a suicide leads to a derailment, we have to ask the bereaved families of suicide victims to compensate us. The costs are usually in the range of 100 million yen <$USD 815,340>, but I've heard of a case where a family was billed 140 million yen <$USD 1,141,555> after someone killed themselves by jumping in front of a train."

[amazona]

34. er, well, you're not responsible for the debts of another adult

Why would the family pay? I guess if the suicide left an estate, the estate would pay, otherwise it's a gratuitous cruelty.

[northzax]

37. you are responsible for the debts of your spouse

and it's not the bill that matters, it's the shame of inconveniencing your family that is the deterrent.

[happyslug]

54. As a General Rule NOT IN THE US, but we are talking of Japan.

In the US, as a general rule a spouse is NOT responsible for the debt of a Spouse unless that debt is a "Necessity" i.e. Food, Clothing and medical care (Most recent cases involve Medical Care).

Thus, if someone jumped in front of a train in the US and died instantly, his or her spouse is NOT responsible for the cleanup (Through may be responsible for any medical cost involved, if any). Now the dead person's estate is liable for the costs, but if he has none (or it is marital property i.e. in both spouses name which in most state goes to the surviving spouse by operation of law) than the debt is left unpaid.

The same rule goes to Life insurance proceeds (provided there is no suicide exclusion), the proceeds go to the name beneficiary NOT the estate and is NOT attachable by the Creditor.

Again these are US rules, NOT Japanese Rules. Most people reading this column will be American Citizens and as such I am explaining American Rule. Japan being is a sovereign nation which has its own rules which a Japanese Lawyer can explain much better than I can.

[northzax]

55. thanks for the clarification

in Japanese society, the shame of leaving behind debts, even unrevocerable ones, would likely deter some people from committing suicide. While I don't know the actual case law in Japan, the social pressure to pay those debts would be immense.

[Dora]

3. Okay, that does it for me!

I read a couple of days ago about an FAA report that says airlines are falling seriously behind on their airline maintenance.

And now this? A couple of pilots take a JET for a JOYRIDE? Holy crap!

I don't feel comfortable flying right now.

[burrowowl]

8. Let's say

that most of this started with Raygun. The controller strike was not about pay but: SAFETY!
Laissez-faire neo-liberal capitalists do not like SAFETY! Cuts profit from them, the sacred share-holders!

[Psephos]

13. The Road Warriors are the ones that scare me.

I see about 10 psychos every day on the street. It's all a matter of perspective.

Peace.

[burrowowl]

4. Wanna be test pilots!

Good god! As the Guardian says makes you wonder about the training as well as the type of people they are hiring!
BTW: they would have never made it as test pilots: TOO DAMN STUPID!

[ElectroPrincess]

5. Gee, maybe the Corporate media has their secondary sensationalist

story to hyper-focus on? Ya know, it's hard to go 24/7 on the Aruba case since the leads have dried up. :evilfrown:

[Jack_DeLeon]

7. Is this a fucking joke...

cause damn it sure sounds like it.

Atleast the dumbasses got what they deserved without taking any innocent victims with them.

[eleny]

9. Famous last words: "Watch this!"

[AngryAmish]

35. Famous last words in Wisconsin: "Watch this and hold my beer."

[fob]

48. I think there is a Craigslist "Best of" story with that EXACT title!

It's hilarious!


Here it is;
http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/40398110.html

[Psephos]

14. I'm not sure I'd say they got what they deserved.

No one "deserves" to die horribly in a crash for a dumb mistake. Just a thought.

[PartyPooper]

10. I have a few pilot friends and relatives whom I'd like to comment on this.

And, there are some DU pilots on DU. You can just guess what they will have to say.

These guys got "a trip to the cemetery" courtesy of their own idiotic delusions.

Thank God no one else was hurt.

[karlrschneider]

15. I'm not so sure you'd guess what I have to say....SO FAr

there are few details in this story and it's not passing my preliminary smell test. FL410 is no big deal for any commercial jet airliner that I know of, and flying one to that altitude is not a reason for or cause of any sort of engine failure (except perhaps a compressor stall which is definitely not 'catatrosphic'...)

And the 'switching seats' part sounds a little fishy...any modern (or even 99% of very old ones) can be flown equally effectively from either seat. If that weren't true, there wouldn't be much need for a co-pilot (First Officer.)

However in my 41 years as a commercial pilot, I have met a few nutballs, but honestly none that had the wherewithal to get a job with an airline.
So for now I must just :eyes:

[daleo]

16. If there was a mechanical malfunction, this may be diversion?

The media might be painting a picture of barnstorming nutballs, so that nobody thinks too hard about the hardware.

[NNN0LHI]

22. More info

http://www.jcrc.com/2004Events/2004CRJ2Crash/2004CRJ2Crash.htm

Canadian-built Canadair Regional Jet CRJ2 Full-scale Airliner belonging to Pinnacle Airlines crashed at 10:15 P.M. on October 14, 2004, in a residential area on the east side of Jefferson City while attempting to make an emergency landing at the Jefferson City Memorial Airport after reporting problems with both engines. Two pilots, and the only occupants of the aircraft; Captain Jesse Rhodes and First Officer Richard Peter Cesarz, were both killed in the crash. Our heartfelt thoughts and prayers go out to their families & fellow employees. snip

The jet was being flown from Little Rock, Arkansas, to Minneapolis, Minnesota, on a transfer flight therefore no further crew members or passengers were on-board the 50-seat airplane. Reports now indicate that around 9:55 P.M., nearly 35 minutes after the plane took off, both engines failed while the aircraft was at an altitude of 41,000 ft. at which time the jetliner experienced an aerodynamic stall and the plane rapidly descended to 34,000 ft. where the pilots regained full control of the jet. The powerless plane then continued to descend at 1,000 ft. per minute while the pilots made numerous attempts to get the engines to start again. At 9,000 ft. (the last radio contact with the flight crew) they were instructed to attempt an emergency landing at the Jefferson City Airport where the pilot reportedly could see the airport beacon. The Jefferson City Fire Department had already been dispatched to the airport and firefighters were already at the airport when the 911 calls started coming in at 10:15 P.M. to report the crash in a residential area on the east side of Jefferson City, near Hutton Lane.

[pa28]

24. This does seem a bit strange.

If the aircraft was certified for 41,000 I'm surprised they just failed. You fly jets, is there any difference in operating procedure between 31k and 41K?

These pilots maybe were not the picture of professionalism but I don't know if it accounts for the accident.

[northzax]

38. the engines could stall at any altitude

it's a matter of airflow, I think, not just altitude. Why they wouldn't restart is more troubling.

[Daphne08]

31. I'm in agreement with you.

I would venture to say that 98% of corporate and commercial pilots are very serious individuals.

Something is not right here.

[Zerex71]

32. At some point, the hardware has nothing to do with it.

The fact that they were screwing around as much as they did and obviously weren't taking the situation very seriously tells me all I need to know. Good thing no one else is hurt, but I can't say they didn't deserve what happened to them. They stress these basics over and over again in ground school and yet some people are just too stupid. Just like with driving.

[MisterP]

28. not so much delusions as apparent lobotomies

[puddycat]

11. Ha! Too much machismo, not enough sense n/t

[Boomer]

12. Tox screen results?

These guys sound like they were flying, all right. Flying high on drugs.

[Endangered Specie]

17. Paging Dr. Darwin, Dr. Darwin, you have TWO patients waiting...

room 666 ;)

edit: why do I have a sudden urge to watch the Bugs bunny cartoon "falling hare" (the one where hes stuck in a plane with a gremlin and it takes a huge nose dive...)

[NNN0LHI]

21. Where the plane runs out of fuel and stops about a foot off the ground? nt

[Endangered Specie]

23. yup

:)

[high density]

18. Erm... So?

The Guardian seems to be "sexing up" this story and providing few facts about what was going on. It wasn't a "joke" flight, it was a ferry flight from Little Rock to Minneapolis. Though I admit that the pilots do sound a bit drunk. But the article doesn't tell us why the engines failed, and I'm wondering if it was the fault of the pilots or another problem. From the article I can't even tell if this was a recent event or just an old transcript that has finally been made public. (Edit: It appears the incident is from October 2004: http://digbig.com/4drdg and http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20041014-1)

[high density]

26. full CVR transcript link

http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2005/Pinnacle/exhibits/CVR_Factual.pdf

Reading the entire thing makes them sound a lot less intoxicated. I read on another forum that the first officer was 23 years old, so perhaps he and the captain were just excited to be doing their jobs. RIP... poor guys.

[peacebuzzard]

43. I fly Pinnacle all the time. Most of the co-guys are very, very young

and I heard they only need minimal instrument hours to qualify for the job. It is a revolving door job because most can't make it on the salary--17K a yr. Training period is not paid, you get a food allowance and lodging. Folks, welcome to the future of the aviation industry.
It is evolving as we speak--the days of the legacy union wages and retirement are gone.

[peacebuzzard]

45. GOOD LORD! Worse than I thought! Coguy only had 776 hours

when hired last year, and the 1st officer had been disqualified two or three times during test flights. I wish I didn't need these planes to commute out of my podunk town to work. Thanks for the link.

[amazona]

36. yes this is the October 2004 Northwest/Pinnacle crash

Not an old event.

[NNN0LHI]

20. That had to be one long ride down from 40,000 feet with no engines n/t

[ElectroPrincess]

25. The good news: at impact you would feel NO Pain ...

Splat! All that would be left of their bodies would have to be sopped up with squeegees. This story will be another lauded "Darwin Award" winner.

[NNN0LHI]

29. According to this it took about 35/40 minutes from no power until they hit

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1549248&mesg_id=1549802

[fortyfeetunder]

27. Will wait for the NTSB report.

I can't believe this is as stupid as it's been made out to be. Will wait to see what the National Transportation Safety Board findings are....

[high density]

30. Lots of good reading here

http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2005/Pinnacle/exhibits/317489.pdf

[peacebuzzard]

47. Great reading--great link.

sad the truth hurts here.

[amazona]

33. I'm sorry to hear this, what a sad story

I think many pilots do have the risk-taking gene, or they couldn't get up in the morning and do what they do every day. These men made a mistake and they paid for it.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

39. Poor bastards. I just read the whole transcript

something went wrong with the power unit... they had no power to get things going again.

This is definately a fuck job by the media.

[redqueen]

44. Oh, those stupid Americans!

:eyes:

Yay... I get to complain to overseas media today!

[wakeme2008]

40. fyi

[BlueStateGirl]

41. Here's an article that said they had aborted a flight earlier that day

because of technical problems.

http://www.showmenews.com/2004/Oct/20041021News014.asp

NTSB officials said earlier that the jet had aborted a scheduled flight with passengers from Little Rock last Thursday morning after an indicator light went on for part of its bleed-air system. The system pulls hot, compressed air from the engines to heat other components of the plane. An airplane indicator light signaled a potential problem with the bleed-air sensing loop, which uses heat to determine whether air is leaking from the engine.

The plane’s loop was replaced before it took off for Minneapolis, and the

[peacebuzzard]

42. That's what happens when the pilots are paid McDonalds's wages,

and worked to the point of breaking all the rest legalities. I feel it breeds lack of responsibility, desperation and fatigue related mistakes.,

[Valkyrie55]

46. Actually it crashed in Jefferson City, Missouri

The BBC article got it wrong it's not Jackson City, Missouri. I should know I live about 3 miles from where it crashed. http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2005/06/15/news_local/0614050011.txt

[wetbandit2003]

49. Ever try to loop a Cessna 172?

I had a friend who claimed he did. If the plane did not have a gravity fed fuel system. I would probobly believe him.

[Lisa]

50. If they were still within the limits of the plane's capabilities ...

... I wonder what went wrong? Either the "envelope" is inaccurate -- or that particular plane wasn't being maintained to the appropriate standard -- or there's other stuff we don't know about yet.

They had enough of their wits about them to choose an empty plane and not one with passengers, anyway. So it's not as if they were showing off or trying to scare people.

Are there situations where a commercial passenger jet would need to fly that high? Perhaps the DU aviation contingent could step in here ... I seem to recall that planes have had to do maneuvers to avoid particulate clouds from erupting volcanoes on at least a couple of occasions. If there are times when one would have to fly that high, if I were a pilot I would like to know if this is possible (for real, not on a simulator) -- but that's just me.

[Cocoa]

51. "you've got to be kidding me"

famous last words...

But seconds later, as an automatic system began warning of a stall, one of the pilots is heard to say: "Dude, it's losing it." A voice then said: "We don't have any engines. You got to be kidding me."

[Xithras]

52. But they didn't do anything wrong!

The flight ceiling of an aircraft is the highest altitude it can SAFELY be flown at! If the jet was rated at 41,000 feet and the engines failed at 41,000 feet, then there was a mechanical problem, not a pilot error. By it's very definition, a jet should be able to fly at its flight ceiling all day long without any problems.

Now, if they overshot and killed the engines at 43,000 feet the story would be a bit different, but there's no indication that that happened. All indicators are that the jet engines failed while operating within its published safety boundaries.

[Lisa]

53. 12,496 m = 41,000 ft.

As you say, Xithras -- the transcript doesn't seem to indicate that they were trying to go BEYOND 41,000. Nor that they were flying at an abnormally-fast speed.


I think this is the type -- the CRJ 100/200
http://home.ca.inter.net/~rapickler/regional.html