Hit by friendly fire (Hagel - WH "completely disconnected from reality")

[Pirate Smile]

With his polls down, Bush takes flak on Iraq from a host of critics--including some in his own party
By Kevin Whitelaw

Nebraska Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel is angry. He's upset about the more than 1,700 U.S. soldiers killed and nearly 13,000 wounded in Iraq. He's also aggravated by the continued string of sunny assessments from the Bush administration, such as Vice President Dick Cheney's recent remark that the insurgency is in its "last throes." "Things aren't getting better; they're getting worse. The White House is completely disconnected from reality," Hagel tells U.S. News. "It's like they're just making it up as they go along. The reality is that we're losing in Iraq."

That's strikingly blunt talk from a member of the president's party, even one cast as something of a pariah in the GOP because of his early skepticism about the war. "I got beat up pretty good by my own party and the White House that I was not a loyal Republican," he says. Today, he notes, things are changing: "More and more of my colleagues up here are concerned."

Indeed, there are signs that the politics of the Iraq war are being reshaped by the continuing tide of bad news. Take this month in Iraq, with 47 U.S. troops killed in the first 15 days. That's already five more than the toll for the entire month of June last year. With the rate of insurgent attacks near an all-time high and the war's cost set to top $230 billion, more politicians on both sides of the aisle are responding to opinion polls that show a growing number of Americans favoring a withdrawal from Iraq. Republican Sens. Lincoln Chafee and Lindsey Graham have voiced their concerns. And two Republicans, including the congressman who brought "freedom fries" to the Capitol, even joined a pair of Democratic colleagues in sponsoring a bill calling for a troop withdrawal plan to be drawn up by year's end. "I feel confident that the opposition is going to build," says Rep. Ron Paul, the other Republican sponsor and a longtime opponent of the war.

Sagging polls. The measure is not likely to go anywhere, but Hagel calls it "a major crack in the dike." Whether or not that's so, the White House has reason to worry that the assortment of critiques of Bush's wartime performance may be approaching a tipping point. Only 41 percent of Americans now support Bush's handling of the Iraq war, the lowest mark ever in the Associated Press-Ipsos poll. And the Iraq news has combined with a lethargic economy and doubts about the president's Social Security proposals to push Bush's overall approval ratings near all-time lows. For now, most Republicans remain publicly loyal to the White House. "Why would you give your enemies a timetable?" asks House Majority Leader Tom DeLay. " doesn't fight the war on news articles or television or on polls."

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050627/27bush.htm

[babylonsister]

1. Hagel grows a spine-could it be? Nah, an ill wind

is beginning to blow, and me thinks he's bailing while the gettin' is good!

[Tesla]

3. I always thought Hagel could

become a Democrat with out too much convincing....

[Cha]

7. hagel? n/t

[still_one]

11. no way

look at his voting record

also he wants to cover his bases to run in 2008

typical bull shit

[amandabeech]

34. Yup. He's running for sure.

I'm looking for a repudiation of the Repuke Reagan-Bush bunch in 2006 and 2008. DSM, Iraqnam, energy and the economy, stupid!

[ClarkUSA]

49. He was going to vote to get rid of the filibuster

This is his way of moving to the middle in time for 2008

[MurrayDelph]

54. Or is he running for 2006?

If the Bush administration keeps floundering, and more Downing Memoranda
show up, may Hagel is trying to become the next Gerald Ford?

[BattyDem]

5. I think (at least I hope) we're going to be seeing a lot of this

They're bailing out, Chimpy! It's every man for himself! :evilgrin:

[redacted]

16. Like rats off a sinking ship! n/t

[Pirate Smile]

19. Let the story be Republicans bashing, questioning, criticizing fellow

Republicans.

[Burried News]

32. Looks like there's trouble in river city.

Well looks like George is going to have to do Hagel a few more favors to keep the Pequod afloat- better collect now Chuck, there's very little political capital left.

[wryter2000]

45. Welcome to DU, Buried News

:hi:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

47. Welcome to DU BurriedNews!

:hi: :hi: :hi:

[Burried News]

63. Thanks all.

"News is what powerful people want to keep hidden; everything else is just publicity."....Bill Moyer

[Media_Lies_Daily]

35. That's correct, IMHO...and we need to encourage them to make that....

...jump, and applaud when they do.

To remove the NeoCons from power, we need to build a coalition of anybody that wants to make that happen. And I do mean anybody.

[burrowowl]

20. Hagel

has big shares in voting machine company, he would only fix it so that a more 'credible' repuke would win.
Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing!

[NNN0LHI]

2. No Chuck, The reality is NOT that we're losing in Iraq

That war was lost a long time ago.

Don

[DinahMoeHum]

70. Actually, it was lost before it even started.

"...we're fighting in a war we lost before that war began,
we're the white boots marching in a yellow land..."

- Phil Ochs



:nuke:

[Rose Siding]

4. He is so running

The only change a repub will have in 08 is to be the Un-repub

He may have made a few provacative remarks in the run up, but then he fell right in line.

[Cha]

Did hagel vote for the IWR?

I do remember him being skeptical of the Invasion.

Glad he mentioned that damn "last throes" by yomamadickcheney.

And it's hard to believe that there are "41%" who are stupid enough to believe bush's lies.

[Tesla]

8. He always seemed more on the Fence than most

Repukes....
Kinda had a heart ...is all I mean...

[kerryin2004]

6. Hagel must be up for re election in 06? n/t

[babylonsister]

9. Rumor has it he's also considering '08. Ha!! nt

[Demeter]

10. I'm Not Impressed By Hagel

It took him 5 years to come to a conclusion that only took me 5 weeks.

[lumpy]

26. Demeter, no one could have said it better

than you.

[truthisfreedom]

12. tee-hee-hee. while i have no interest in any of these 'puke's opinions,

it's lovely to watch the cannibalization of the thug party.

[Twist_U_Up]

13. Hagel scmagel check this out

http://www.electionfraud2004.org/presentation/index.html

slide 7

[Roland99]

22. Interesting.

[Lecky]

14. I don't care if they are running in 08' or not...

I'm glad these men are finally speaking out. I'm sure it's not easy surrounded by a bunch of rabid repukes.

[area51]

33. Welcome.

Welcome to DU, Lecky.

[AX10]

15. While its good to hear him speak out...

Hagel is running for the WH in 08'.

[KeepItReal]

17. Hagel can talk sh*t to Bush & Co...he's got PC Voting on his side

I trust him as far as I can throw him....

Check this out in case you forgot:

"While Diebold has received the most attention, it actually isn't the biggest maker of computerized election machines. That honor goes to Omaha-based ES&S, and its Republican roots may be even stronger than Diebold's.

The firm, which is privately held, began as a company called Data Mark, which was founded in the early 1980s by Bob and Todd Urosevich. In 1984, brothers William and Robert Ahmanson bought a 68 percent stake in Data Mark, and changed the company's name to American Information Services (AIS). Then, in 1987, McCarthy & Co, an Omaha investment group, acquired a minority share in AIS.

In 1992, investment banker Chuck Hagel, president of McCarthy & Co, became chairman of AIS. Hagel, who had been touted as a possible Senate candidate in 1993, was again on the list of likely GOP contenders heading into the 1996 contest. In January of 1995, while still chairman of ES&S, Hagel told the Omaha World-Herald that he would likely make a decision by mid-March of 1995. On March 15, according to a letter provided by Hagel's Senate staff, he resigned from the AIS board, noting that he intended to announce his candidacy. A few days later, he did just that.

A little less than eight months after steppind down as director of AIS, Hagel surprised national pundits and defied early polls by defeating Benjamin Nelson, the state's popular former governor. It was Hagel's first try for public office. Nebraska elections officials told The Hill that machines made by AIS probably tallied 85 percent of the votes cast in the 1996 vote, although Nelson never drew attention to the connection. Hagel won again in 2002, by a far healthier margin. That vote is still angrily disputed by Hagel's Democratic opponent, Charlie Matulka, who did try to make Hagel's ties to ES&S an issue in the race and who asked that state elections officials conduct a hand recount of the vote. That request was rebuffed, because Hagel's margin of victory was so large.

As might be expected, Hagel has been generously supported by his investment partners at McCarthy & Co. -- since he first ran, Hagel has received about $15,000 in campaign contributions from McCarthy & Co. executives. And Hagel still owns more than $1 million in stock in McCarthy & Co., which still owns a quarter of ES&S. "

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2004/03/03_200.html

[Twist_U_Up]

23. so fucking obvious people..........

WAKE UP 2006 is upon us

[deadparrot]

18. 'kay, I'm not going to get a chance to do this very often,

so I'm going to enjoy it.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:popcorn:

[BadGimp]

21. Sad that it took this long and this much Death

for some in the GOP to wake the fuck up!

[Califooyah Operative]

24. is it just me or is that dated 6/27/05? nt

[RandomKoolzip]

25. Lemme guess: Chuck's running for pres in 08, right?

Truth: only used by Republicans when convenient.

[ananda]

27. But, are most Americans..

.. disconnected from the reality that Bush, his admin, and Congress do not answer to the majority of people who do not approve of what they are doing? After all, the GOP controls the voting machines in swing states.

Sue

[Javaman]

28. The Moderates are beginning to bail, only the neocons will be left...

One night in morons* bunker...

Moron*: anyone up for a mean game of solitaire? Anyone? hello?

[yorkiemommie1]

29. the times they are a'changin'....

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.


Bob Dylan

[Bread and Circus]

30. Pretty soon, even Hillary Clinton will be against the war... :)

And yes...I despise her. And no, I am not a freep.

But c'mon..if R's are speaking out against the war, it makes ya wonder what real Dems should be doing.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

37. What do you think most of the Dems have been doing? If you're....

...going to be slamming folks, try to stick to using facts.

[Bread and Circus]

42. Most Dem leaders, except ones like Conyers, aren't doing enough

in my opinion.

And sorry, I still can't get the vision out of my head where HRC vociferously applauded Bush and gave him standing O after standing O at his "we're gonna bomb 'em to hell" SOTU address when they were cooking up this mess.

Sorry, I'm just sick of the Dems that try to play it both ways.

Oh, and I went to HRC's official website homepage to find some statement about the war and guess what - I didn't find one on the homepage, but I did find a bill that she is co-sponsoring w/ Bill Frist.

Interestingly, on Conyers homepage, there is alot about the war, but none involving partnering with Dr. Cuckoobananas.

So there ya go.

I guess it's just a matter of emphasis.

Conyers' emphasis: The war is illegal from the get go. These guys are a bunch of crooks.

Clinton's emphasis: Better to seem "bipartisan" than investigate the bunch of crooks that have stolen our government.

At least that's my take on it.

See, in my mind, Conyers is a real hero, Democrat, and a patriot. HRC is just someone that will do and say anything to get elected.

[sunnystarr]

56. I have to agree for a slightly different reason ...

Bill Clinton's cozy relationship with H. Worm Bush is enough to turn me against the Clintons as a whole.

With a DLC background now cursed with H. Worm Bush, the Clintons reek of kissing the corporate butts.

That said, if it ends up being Hillary against any Repuke I'd have to vote for her.

[LiberalAndProud]

31. Yea, and Hagel didn't like Bolton either ...

I got a letter from him after urging him to oppose Bolton's appointment as UN ambassador

"...the Committee voted to send Mr. Bolton's nomination to the Senate floor without recommendation for an up or down vote by the full Senate. I voted is support of this motion. The Senate leadership is expected to schedule a full Senate vote in the coming weeks. I will vote for Mr. Bolton."

So much for Hagel ...

He talks the talk ... He talked before the Senate vote to permit Bush to invade Iraq. He voted to invade.

He talks ... Pay attention to how he votes.

"Mr. Bolton has the confidence of President Bush and Secretary of State Rice. He has assured me that he will work hard to strenghten our alliances and carry out the policies of the Bush Administration in representing the interests of the United states at the United Nations."

[lovuian]

36. No Tom news articles don't fight wars People do!!!

and your US Military are getting scarcer and weakened day by day!!!

[ngGale]

38. Their only concern is election time is around the corner...

let's get the Iraq war to a close before our window closes.

[agincourt]

39. Just wait,

Rove will pull out some "veterans" to say Hagel bayoneted babies over in Viet Nam. It'll work with the pigboy radio K-draggers every time. There is nothing this bunch is not below doing

[ClarkUSA]

40. Hagel owns 35% of ES&S and became Senator via ES&S vote counting

"The vice president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers."

http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=9751&fcategory_desc=E-Voting%20Machines%20/%20Vote%20Integrity

Hagel is positioning himself to be the 2008 alternative to McCain. Hagel would have voted to get rid of the filibuster, though he made all the right noises on Tavis Smiley about not being sure.

[LiberalAndProud]

51. Although there's no denying his ES&S ties

I sincerely doubt that the polls had to be fixed for his election. That's not to say that he wouldn't have taken advantage of this loophole, just saying he didn't have to.

Look at Nebraska's Dem Senator. Ben couldn't be more Republican.

[ClarkUSA]

69. Hagel's win in 1996 was as questionable as Max Cleland's loss in 2002

Hagel was the first Republican voted to the Senate in 24 years from Nebraska
and his win was not only totally unexpected, it was VERY VERY similar to Ohio's results last year.

Here's Thom Hartmann on Chuck Hagel:

Maybe Nebraska Republican Chuck Hagel honestly won two US Senate elections. Maybe it's true that the citizens of Georgia simply decided that incumbent Democratic Senator Max Cleland, a wildly popular war veteran who lost three limbs in Vietnam, was, as his successful Republican challenger suggested in his campaign ads, too unpatriotic to remain in the Senate. Maybe George W. Bush, Alabama's new Republican governor Bob Riley, and a small but congressionally decisive handful of other long-shot Republican candidates really did win those states where conventional wisdom and straw polls showed them losing in the last few election cycles...

The respected Washington, DC publication The Hill (www.thehill.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx) has confirmed that former conservative radio talk-show host and now Republican U.S. Senator Chuck Hagel was the head of, and continues to own part interest in, the company that owns the company that installed, programmed, and largely ran the voting machines that were used by most of the citizens of Nebraska.

Back when Hagel first ran there for the U.S. Senate in 1996, his company's computer-controlled voting machines showed he'd won stunning upsets in both the primaries and the general election. The Washington Post (1/13/1997) said Hagel's "Senate victory against an incumbent Democratic governor was the major Republican upset in the November election." According to Bev Harris of www.blackboxvoting.com, Hagel won virtually every demographic group, including many largely Black communities that had never before voted Republican. Hagel was the first Republican in 24 years to win a Senate seat in Nebraska.

Six years later Hagel ran again, this time against Democrat Charlie Matulka in 2002, and won in a landslide. As his hagel.senate.gov website says, Hagel "was re-elected to his second term in the United States Senate on November 5, 2002 with 83% of the vote. That represents the biggest political victory in the history of Nebraska."

What Hagel's website fails to disclose is that about 80 percent of those votes were counted by computer-controlled voting machines put in place by the company affiliated with Hagel. Built by that company. Programmed by that company.

"This is a big story, bigger than Watergate ever was," said Hagel's Democratic opponent in the 2002 Senate race, Charlie Matulka (www.lancastercountydemocrats.org/matulka.htm). "They say Hagel shocked the world, but he didn't shock me."

.......

"I suspect they're getting ready to do this all across all the states," Matulka said in a January 30, 2003 interview. "God help us if Bush gets his touch screens all across the country," he added, "because they leave no paper trail. These corporations are taking over America, and they just about have control of our voting machines."

more at http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0302/S00009.htm#a

[LiberalAndProud]

72. I live here. I talk to these people.

Voters kept Ben Nelson in the governor's mansion. He's a Republican in all but name. Voters put Hagel in the senate. And when Benny boy ran again, he was elected to the Senate.

You won't convince anyone from this state that Hagel had to rig the vote in either election. This is Nebraska.

Jim Exon could have been re-elected except that he was not running.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[truth_is_extreme]

43. Rats are always the first

to abandon ship. If this Repugnant had had the courage to tell the truth in 2003, maybe 1,700 Americans and 120,000 Iraqis would be alive today.

[Penndems]

44. "[Bush] doesn't fight the war on news articles or television or on polls."

Yeah? Then why the hell is Rove's office two doors down from the Oval Office? No coincidence there!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/custom/2005/06/06/CU2005060601310.html

Who's kidding who here, DeLay?

[pfitz59]

46. Flatulant posturing......

manuevering for '08. Typical puke asshole 100%!

[ClarkUSA]

50. Yup, he wants the McCain voters - and he's moving to the middle

Jerk.

[insane_cratic_gal]

48. If Bush's poll numbers were up

we wouldn't see anyone on the Republican side saying anything. They wouldn't have the balls.

Now his numbers are down and he's one of the most unpopular presidents, your going to see bigger divides with those up for re-election in 2006.. those running in 2008.

I don't think Hagel is a bad guy, there are few republicans I'll even listen to. He happens to be one, that I do give attention to. But I still can't shake that the reason he's backtracking is because of the poll numbers.

[mistertrickster]

52. Republicans like Hagel unlike Bush have to stand for election in '06

and '08.

They see that the American public, ignorant and oblivious, are starting to rouse and see the obvious--WORST PRESIDENT EVER.

[liberaliraqvet26]

53. Nebraska Senators....

Hagel-(D)

Nelson-(R)

one is awakining to reality and one is hanging out with Dobson. Go figure. We should trade nelson for hagel.

[Joey Liberal]

55. Repugs can trash Bush now because he's a lame duck n/t

[morffin]

57. I dont care what his motivation is

I sent him an e mail to thank him.

[Emendator]

75. Yep

You're right. Hegel's doing a good thing.

[arkie dem]

58. Goddammit Hagel it took you this long

to figure out bush was as Full of Shit as a fertilizer salesman with a mouthfull of samples?

[Chauga]

59. No wonder the GOP couldn't keep the nuclear option together.

They're own party hates their leader.

[DeaconBlues]

60. in case anyone is fooled into thinking that Hagel is on our side

Here is his partial voting record:

*Rated 36% by the NEA, indicating a mixed record on public education. (Dec 2003)

*Rated 0% by the LCV, indicating anti-environment votes. (Dec 2003)

*Rated 100% by the Christian Coalition: a pro-family voting record. (Dec 2003)

*Rated 92% by CATO, indicating a pro-free trade voting record. (Dec 2002)

*Rated A by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun rights voting record. (Dec 2003)

*Rated 12% by APHA, indicating a anti-public health voting record. (Dec 2003)

*Rated 8% by the AFL-CIO, indicating an anti-labor voting record. (Dec 2003)

*Rated 22% by the ARA, indicating an anti-senior voting record. (Dec 2003)

[lavendermist]

61. "a major crack in the dike"

drip.....drip.....drip :applause:

[Emillereid]

62. Anybody else from the Vietnam War era feel like it's deja vu all over

again. I mean I remember people being rabid zealots for the war, but as the casualties mounted and the rationale for the war became more irrational, the American people grew tired and turned -- then the congressional types acted like they'd always had their doubts. I mean there was a point about 1970 that people who I knew had supported the war, came on like , "Who? Me? No I never supported the war." Ah well -- whatever it takes. Tom Hayden figures that the politicians -- even the republicans -- will bail if they get enough pressure from the people.

[indepat]

64. A strong argument could be made the WH has been disconnected with reality

from day-one, from the git-go, and it gets worse day-by-day.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

65. A little late, don't you think, Chuck?

It was your voting machine company that helped get that loser into the White House along with all his enablers.

[Rainngirl]

66. It's okay with me...

if some of the thugs start singing out against the Evil One, even if they are only doing it for future elections. At least maybe some of their dense little sheeple will be more likely to listen if non-Democrats are talking about it. That would be a good thing, since they close their narrow little minds against getting the facts from anyone else.

[AceAlmighty82]

67. Hagel is just now picking up on this

The Repubs and Neocons have been out of touch from reality from the get-go. All I have to say to Hagel is tell him where the DSM petition is..have him sign it..if he hasn't already. Give Hagel a treat..like you do a dog when he does something good. Maybe he'll continue to do so. Unless Bush pulls bin-Laden out of his ass..his ratings aren't going to get any better especially if he starts strikes on Iran..here in June like Seymour Hersh's source says he will do.

[Tsiyu]

68. Telling words from Delay

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay: "* doesn't fight the war on news articles or television or on polls."

No, Tom. BUSH DOESN'T FIGHT THE WAR AT ALL...he has Americans do it for him. Because bush* is a Chickenhawk, chickenshit coward, which is why Repukes like you LOVE him. Keep sticking your nose up *'s backside, Delay. You'll go down faster that way.......

[LeftHander]

71. kick

nt

[JABBS]

73. The bigger issue

The Hagel comments are very important and a breath of fresh air, but the bigger story is that Hagel is now the 10th Republican Senator in less than a month to take a stand against the Bush administration.

I posted an item this morning at http://jabbs.blogspot.com:

"That makes 10 Republican Senators who have spoken out -- dare I say, taken "leadership positions" -- against the Bush Administration in less than a month. It's a list that covers topics such as whether to close the Guantanamo Bay detention center, protecting U.S. consumers from the administration's drug industry pals, and preventing Bush lackey Bill Frist (R-TN) from being able to employ the "nuclear option," upending the Senate's rules on filibusters.

The list of 10, if you are scoring at home, is now:

-- John McCain of Arizona
-- Mel Martinez of Florida
-- Charles Grassley of Iowa
-- Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins of Maine
-- Mike DeWine of Ohio
-- Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island
-- Lindsey Graham of South Carolina
-- John Warner of Virginia"

[demo dutch]

74. It's called "re-election fear" Check out this GOP site...

http://www.gopnation.com/dwarfs.htm
The repugs are pinning a bullseye on their candidates, I certainly hope we have Dems running against them, it will be a double whammy!

Olympia Snow - 2006
Mike DeWine - 2006
Lincoln Chafee - 2006

Susan Collins 2008
Lindsey Graham 2008
John Warner - 2008

John McCain 2010 - (but Presidential Aspirations)
Mel Martinez - 2010 (barely won with 50%)

[barb162]

76. It is nice to hear some reality check type talking from a pug, isn't it?