Bill would force mentally ill to take their meds

[truthpusher]

http://www.bangornews.com/news/templates/?a=115371

Bill would force mentally ill to take their meds
------------------------
Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - Bangor Daily News
------------------------
AUGUSTA - The mental health community is divided over a proposed new law that would require some people with mental illness to take prescribed psychiatric medications or face involuntary admission to a state hospital.

The initiative, known as "community commitment," had all-but-unanimous bipartisan support in both the House and Senate during the recently adjourned legislative session, but has been held over for reconsideration because it would draw about $600,000 over the next two years from the state's bare-bones General Fund.

(snip)

The Maine chapter of the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill, a leading organization that advocates for patients' rights, has refused to take a position on the community commitment bill for fear of splintering its membership. A NAMI spokeswoman said last week that while some providers and family members see the measure as a way to keep people healthy and productive, others find it coercive and an infringement of personal rights.

(snip)

The bill's sponsor, Sen. John Nutting, D-Leeds, said Monday that family members, frantic to protect the well-being of their loved ones, have been a primary driver of the proposal. Other pressures include the societal costs of having people with poorly controlled mental illness living in Maine communities, as well as the cost of repeated hospitalization or incarceration of those who become dangerous. The measure has the support of a broad coalition of health care groups and law enforcement officials.

complete story: http://www.bangornews.com/news/templates/?a=115371

[havocmom]

1. And when the junta starts deciding who is mentally ill...

there won't be much dissent after that.

[Eloriel]

105. Exactly -- links

This is a very, very risky piece of legislation. I'd be against it were there NO other threat, but as it turns out that other threat is a stunner:


Mental Illness Affects Many (SETUP for BUSH's New Freedom Commission)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1527795#1527829
see also: A sane voice shouts NO to Bush's 'mental health' plan by Underground Panther in the Sky, Unknown News

Attempt to stop mandatory mental screening fails
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1018271
Link: http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41606

Congress Funds Mandatory Psychological Tests for Kids
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1018998
Link: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/11/22/215244.shtml

Lawmaker tries to block mental-health screening
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1002593
Link: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41511

Calling all DU mental health professionals
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2415082

'Ritalin bill' advances; some call it unneeded
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3064783

Is mandatory mental health testing the beginning of the end ?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2413903&mesg_id=2413903

Feel free to freak out now
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3891897
Link: Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parental Rights
http://www.sierratimes.com/05/05/16/24_209_102_203_25370.htm

[smirkymonkey]

2. Uhhhh....what State Hospitals?

Don't tell me they are going to reverse Reagans great "liberation" of the mentally ill. (sarcasm not directed at you, but at article) :)

[AngryAmish]

4. That was a crime

[Mizmoon]

9. No, it was not

Reagan may have had his own motives, but what he did was a good thing. Very good.

[leesa]

15. What on earth was a good thing about it??? Homelessness and

crime rates skyrocketed. You don't say what was good about it.

[Mizmoon]

20. People who were captive in terrible circumstances were freed

I know that might not mean much to you, but it did to those who were locked up.

My grandmother came home to live with us afterward. After years of having been told she was "too dangerous" to be released, she came home and lived in peace with us until the day she died.

She had been locked away for 20 years. My grandfather tried to get her out of the hospital but once the docs claimed you were dangerous, that was it.

She should never had been locked away like that.

If you want to know what life was like for the average psych patient buy the out-of-print book "They Walk in Darkness".

Did you know that at its peak Pilgrim State Psychiatric Hospital held 19,000 inmates? There were 200 doctors for them. It was a nightmare from hell for the patients.

[symbolman]

34. Bullshit

I worked in a VA hospital after getting out when I was drafted during Vietnam..

90% of the patients had NO WAY to care for themselves.. part of my job was to get them fixed up, new glasses, physicals, drug abuse treatment, clothing, halfway houses, teeth, etc and then introduce them to society..

Most of them came back on a gurney completely in shambles, looking nothing like the guy I sent out..

Our community care program consisted of injecting Street Veterans with Thorzine and releasing them to wander about talking to parking meters and sleeping on doorsteps, subway grates, where ever until they DIED and were no longer a govt problem..

What Reagan did was the equivalent of releasing a canary in Fairbanks, Alaska into the wild so it could be FREE..

Once again, bullshit.

Glad that a few individuals get OUT if they aren't too damaged, but for the rest of them it was sheer hell, pain, torture.. some of these guys would come in with their toenails growing THROUGH their shoes..

tell me that's sane.

There is an old saw tho, once you get in the nuthouse there's a good chance you won't get out.. even if you are sane you'll go crazy while in there - but what they are offering here is nothing short of what the Soviets did to politicals prisoners, if they didn't send them to gulags..

[Mizmoon]

38. So you want to lock people up because they need care

good solution ...

[yowzayowzayowza]

41. Good solution? No. A last resort.

I can't count the times I have personally BEGGED a police officer to commit my mother. Glad yer Grandma got better, ALOT did not. Your persional experience is blinding you to the scope of the problem.

[Mizmoon]

42. They used to give people lobotomies as a last resort

this "last resort" stuff is a license to do all kinds of things to psych patients. Heck, Dr. Henry Cotton who ran the Trenton State Psych Hospital used to pull ALL of the teeth in his patients. If that didn't cure them he'd remove their sinuses. If that didn't work he'd resect their bowel. If that didn't work he'd go after their reproductive organs. There are stories of hundreds of toothless patients walking around his wards because the goverment wouldn't pay for dentures.

And this was just one dude of many who could do whatever he wanted to people as a "last resort".



edit for spelling error

[yowzayowzayowza]

45. You do not understand the desperation.

I guess we shoulda jus let Maw run around the neighborhood babbling incoherently buck nekid day after day for fear of a failed treatment. NOT.

[Megahurtz]

56. I disagree.

You don't understand.

Leaving it up to Doctors or any "Authorities" to decide whether a person should be in a mental institution or not, is a very dangerous thing.

They would be putting people in there who do not need to be there,
making a money-making racket out of it!!!

Throw them in, drug them, make them delirious:crazy: and keep them in there as long as they want so that
they could get their funding!!!

I have personally seen this happen!

Put someone in a mental institution, drug them up,
as a result they go downhill fast and it's all over!!!

**What you're talking about is that they should have a special Federal program to assist Veterans,
separate from the public.**

For the rest of the public I call BULLSHIT!

None of us need some idiot or idiots, with a vendetta and/or $$$$$$ in their eyes
throwing any of us in a mental institution for as long as they want on a whim!!!

THAT'S Bullshit!!!

Because of this, I do agree that this was a good thing that Reagan did.

[davidinalameda]

61. your grandmother was one of the lucky ones

she had a family to go home to

come to San Francisco and spend some time on the street

there are people who are not only a danger to themselves but to others.

I was in the bus station yesterday when a guy just started screaming--I have no idea what set him off

there are people wandering around this city that have no business being out of the street

we treat animals better than we treat these people

[saigon68]

89. AT LEAST THE STREETS WERE SAFE

From panhandlers , shopping cart people, windshield squeegee men.


</sarcasm>


LOL

[HuckleB]

91. They were?

When was that?

[Taoschick]

130. Deinstitutionalizing

It wasn't just Reagan. Deinstitutionalization really started cranking up in the 1970s. President Carter tried to put a band-aid on the problem with his Mental Health Systems Act but putting the burden on the feds instead of the states proved impossible to implement in an era with a lackluster economy and inflation problems.

[Mizmoon]

8. It was, without a doubt, the liberation of abused people

I know it for a fact. My grandmother was one of them.

Don't be one of those jerks who wants to solve the homelessness problem by imprisioning people.

[leesa]

16. Just because of your personal experience, its good?

many were devastated by that foolish decision.

[Mizmoon]

22. Yeah, right

Being free is a terrible thing :eyes:

[Terran]

24. Your own experience may have been good, but

thousands of mentally ill people ended up being homeless because of that. In my mind that outweighs whatever good may have been done.

[Mizmoon]

26. Don't try to solve homelessness by imprisoning mentally ill people

n/t

[sendero]

32. Aw fooey..

.... you are both full of it.

Sure there ought to be regular reviews, people should not be locked away for 20 years, mental illness is sometimes a transitory thing.

On the other hand there is no question that thousands of people were put on the street who simply did not have the ability to care for themselves nor any kind of support systems to assist them.

Ok, I'll go with the glass is half full, both of you are right :)

[AngryAmish]

44. How dare you have a reasonable response

I suppose I paint with too broad a brush at times. Thanx.

[nolabels]

47. I agree with you, people want gate keepers to seal off people.............

..that they would like to deem lesser than them. If you substitute a few of the words you would see this is the same rhetoric the wealthy use against people of moderate means or even these groups taking up the nomenclature of Minute Men.

They hide behind walls to escape being part of it. Instead of having a wider perspective of how the world really is they attempt this unnatural idea of hiding away from the rest of humanity. Thinking that with enough of what ever they think they have that they will be able to escape from this 'fear of the other'. It is fear that has been indoctrinated into them that also enslaves them.

The news is that world is not going away, and the fears of "the other" will always be with them till let they let them go. Janis Joplin's lingering words in the paradoxical Phrase "Freedom just another word for nothing left to lose" has the same meaning as the parable Jesus gives in fitting the fat man and his camel through the eye of needle.

This parlay, the account or what ever abundance one thinks they have is just the absence of something else. You can't be a whole human by pushing away the other parts humanity you don't like. For if you do you will be the lesser in the equation.

Look in the mirror and then look at the dysfunctional government, do you see any parallels?

[Terran]

48. With respect, you have it backwards

That is not at all what was going on. These people were rendered homeless by being kicked out of institutions where they needed to be. They needed custodial medical care; they were not capable of living on their own.

I happen to work in this field, with a federal program that assists mentally ill homeless people, among other folks with various disabilities, to acquire and maintain independent supported housing. Some mentally ill people, presumably like your grandmother, are capable of doing that. Many however are not, and I'm sure you know that.

[Megahurtz]

59. Maybe if some of those people were not FORCED to stay

in a mental instition and as a result become dependant on that institution,
they would have been free and able to learn to take care of theselves.

Years and years of forced drugs can make a person pretty helpless!:crazy:

[skygazer]

53. There are two sides to this coin

I agree with you that many people didn't need or deserve to be locked up in psychiatric hospitals. But many people DO need that. Seriously. Back in 1997, I was suffering so terribly from bipolar illness that I was a danger to myself and my children. My doctor recommended hospitalization but there was really nowhere to go because all the psychiatric hospitals had become rehabs since the Reagan era.

I was placed in the one wing of one of these places where they put people like me, people who weren't alcoholics or drug addicts but who had severe problems with mental illnesses. We were given the exact same care and treatment the addicts were - mandatory attendance in workshops and classes devoted to "coping skills" and "living without substances". We were taught the mantra of the 12 step program - none of this did us the least bit of good whatsoever - what we needed was psychiatric care, meds, professional help.

My stay there did nothing except give me a slight break from the stresses of the world outside but those stresses were still there and very real to me when I was released. I am very fortunate to be alive because I got NO help whatsoever when I needed it most.

I don't agree with laws forcing people to take their meds. I don't agree with laws making it easy to simply throw people in hospitals when they become inconvenient. But I also don't believe in simply closing down places that really do provide desperately sick people the help they need.

[smirkymonkey]

19. And where did those poor abused people go if they had no

family to take care of them? That's right, the streets. Just because the system was flawed doesn't mean that turning mentally ill people out on to the streets to fend for themselves was a good idea.

I believe the state hospitals should be there for people who need them (who cannot function on their own) and that they should not be MANDATORY. No one should be forced to stay against thier will.

Don't be one of those jerks who thinks their personal experience is universal and should be the reason for denying help to those who desperately need it.

[Mizmoon]

21. The goverment should have kept its promises

where are the assisted living facilities? Where are the clinics? They don't exist.

I have studied this issue for ten years. I know far more about it than you do.

[KansDem]

49. The public library...

I work at a public library. They're here...

[smirkymonkey]

66. Well, the library IS funded by the Gubmint.....

so I guess our compassionate leaders are taking good care of them after all! ;)

[HuckleB]

106. Yeah, but they don't usually get to stay for very long.

At least in Portland.

[geniph]

109. They do in Seattle

the multi-million dollar fancy-pants Seattle downtown library building is basically a really dolled-up homeless shelter. I used to work there. The homeless are allowed to stay, no matter how stinky, crazy, scary they are unless they create an actual (noisy) disruption. Many of those people need help. There is nowhere else for them to go, especially when it's cold or rainy. The downtown library is damned near the only public toilet available in downtown. I used to be able to tell exactly when it turned 9 a.m. in the old building, because my office was on the other side of the men's room, the only public toilet downtown. At exactly 9 a.m., when they opened the doors to the public, that toilet would start flushing and wouldn't stop until they locked the doors for the evening.

Some of those folks are dangerous. One of them managed to get into the locked sub-basement cataloging area and hide the first month I was there, and took one of the night janitors apart with a straight razor. No one ever figured out why. I used to see people in the stairwell - until I quit using the public stairs - who were bloody and still fighting and biting each other, screaming curses. I found hypodermic syringes more than once. Many of these people would benefit from some kind of psychiatric care more than just being thrown out on their own devices. Some of them need to be locked up for the protection of the rest of us.

[HuckleB]

110. Dang.

That hurts on so many levels. I just visited the library there in May, after seeing it shortly after it opened, and it did seem like there was far more wear and tear than there should have been for such a new building. Not sure if that's related to the homeless, of course, but a building getting use that it's not intended for probably faces unintended physical problems. The lack of services astounds, and that goes for Portland and just about everywhere else, too.

[Megahurtz]

57. I TOTALLY agree with you

mizmoon. This would definitely be imprisoning people.

Some DUer's seem to think thay they would only lock up only the people who supposedly need it, when, on the contrary, they would also be making excuses to lock up whomever they want!!!

Does everyone else think that if the law on this were reversed that they would be immune to
an arbitrary lockup?

Think again!:think:

[notadmblnd]

36. that was my thought too

what State hospitals? All that sits on the site of the former state hospital in Oakland County Michigan is a bunch of overpriced condos.

[AngryAmish]

3. I support forced medications

What we do to the mentally ill in this nation is a crime. What sort of just people close lunatic asylums and force the inmates to either become homeless or go to jail?

[Mizmoon]

6. As the granddaughter of one of those people

I'd like to inform you that you don't know what you are talking about.

[mom cat]

67. A friend of mine is calling the morgues in California again today.

Is her brother alive? Her sister committed suiside two years ago after a long bout of depression. The brother is bi-polar and off his meds again.It is not a situation with easy answers. I am glad that your grandmother had a supportive, loving family to care for her. My friend is barely making ends meet herself and there is noone who can take care of the brother. He convinced the state that he could take care of himself, so now noone is monitoring his meds. He is severly bi-polar and drug addicted. Yes, he is "free", legally, bue is a slave to his addiction and his untreated chemical imbalance. I ddo not believe that opening up more state hospitals is the answer, but neither is the wanton neglect of people with severe mental illness.

[EFerrari]

133. You do this on all of these threads.

As the wife of one of "these people" and as an advocate for OUR FAMILIES, I'm here to tell you that getting people to take their meds when they're too sick to know what is good for them is better than what we do now, WHICH IS PUTTING THEM IN JAIL.

Maybe you should go back to your studies because you don't seem to have learned much from them.

GeeZUS on a TRAILERHITCH.

[ck4829]

7. It's a Racket

People with Schizophrenia and other severe mental disorders would have to take Anti-Psychotic drugs.

Little Known Fact: These drugs cause damage to the Nervous System.
Look up Tardive Dyskinesia.

Then to combat the Nerve damage these people would have to take Anti-Seizure medication.

[EFerrari]

134. Or, Vitamin E.

:eyes:

[murray hill farm]

11. i worked with the mentally ill for years in michigan..

and i can tell you...that anything that helps these ill and homeless human beings into a place that will provide care and a shelter will be a godsend. in michigan...the emergency rooms and jails...had a policy to just pick up a mentally ill person...and put them back on the streets because they could not afford, either to care for them after the state hospitals "freed" the mentally ill to live, uncared for on the streets. The most seriously ill are so sad..and so helpless to live on their own..so vulnerable..and they are ill due to their own genetic makeup..a physical cause that is not within their control to change. i hope with all my being that this law passes.

[Mizmoon]

14. The government didn't live up to its promises

So you want to imprison people in response? Force them to take medications even though they are toxic and could kill them?

Maybe we should make the goverment provide the care they promised years ago. Maybe we should make safe places for them to live.

I'm always astonished at the number of liberals who don't respect the civil rights of the mentally ill.

[Occulus]

97. A mentally ill man in a bus station here a few years back

killed a guy in a restroom there. The mentally ill guy was off his meds.

Had he still been taking his medication, it's thought very strongly that he would never have killed the guy.

I don't support FORCED medication, but where is the medium between the need for these people to receive treatment, and other factors, such as their own denial of their condition, for example, or the lack of a family support system?

CAN there be a balance between the two?

[Logansquare]

28. I feel discomfort with forcing people to take meds, but

I also see the tremendous suffering in my city's streets. People who are left psychotic, filthy, starving, a danger to themselves and others. It's also clear that these people need more than just psych meds; they need shelter and food.

[Mizmoon]

31. I see suffering all over the place

Doesn't mean I can drag them all home with me, lock them in my garage, give them food and water, and call myself a humanitarian. In fact, the police will come arrest me for imprisoning them.

[HuckleB]

35. Yes.

Obviously, we are missing much information regarding this bill, but it does seem to address only one small part of the issue.

[ernstbass]

50. You hit the nail on the head

I have worked in a psych hospital for 25 years and money needs to be poured into communtity support for the chronically mentally ill. Meds are just one piece of the puzzle. I'm also uncomfartable with the idea of forced meds. There are pros and cons

[Taoschick]

132. I see it as well in my small town

We've got quite a few people with mental illness who are also homeless. They wander around town during the day and sleep where they can at night. In the summer months, it's not as serious but in the winter, they're really at the mercy of the elements. There has to be some mechanism for getting people who are a danger to themselves and others the help they need. It's tough with some, to get them to recognize they NEED help.

[davekriss]

108. Bound to sickness, free to die

My adopted daughter, 13 yo, is early-onset, rapid-cycling bipolar disordered with an ADHD comorbid dx to boot. She exhibits all symptoms, including the most extreme, and is often a danger to herself and others. Just finding an available hospital bed when needed is a major challenge. There are not enough facilities in this conuntry to help the severely ill.

The cost is tremendous. The cost for a bed was $1,350 per day in the acute psychiatric ward of an east coast hospital, plus $255 per day for doctors visits (whether they occurred or not) and another $1500 monthly for meds. Approximately $50,000 per month. She spent 5 months there. From there she moved to sub-acute care (residential) that cost $900 per day for the bed and approximately $35,000 per month. She spent 14 months there. Total bills over a two year period reached $849,000. She's long ago topped one million.

Cost and cost alone is why Reagan emptied the hospitals and no other reason.

My biggest fear for her is what happens to her when she is an adult in a world envisioned by Bush and the Republithugs. Will she join the homeless, where the vast portion are self-medicating mentally ill? Will she end up in prison? We are researching what state to move to that gives her better life options (we're even exploring moving to Canada). Most of the U.S. seems to consider her a "useless eater" and appears to prefer that she just go away and die.

We should be judged by how we treat the least amongst us.

[renate]

141. oh, dave....

you've made me cry.

I am so so so so sorry that your daughter, you, and your family have had to endure this. Not just the cost (although, since even with copays it's obviously at a level that has affected your quality of life, that's very important) but the whole story.

I don't understand why mental illness--which NOBODY CHOOSES FOR THEMSELVES--isn't thought of as any other physical illness. This isn't anything you or she asked for, this is obviously something out of your hands and hers.... I'm just so sorry.

At thirteen (no matter what her mental condition) she isn't going to realize just how lucky she is to have you as a parent, so I will tell you for her:

THANK YOU.

[OzarkDem]

129. Agree

Its cruel to leave these people on the street to fend for themselves. In spite of billions spent on agencies to help them, little is accomplished.

[EFerrari]

135. Oversight is the problem. We have, and have had, the tech

to treat many of the most severe kinds of mental illness.

There is no oversight. If I hadn't aggressively engaged my husband's medical people, he'd have been a goner by now, or I would have been.

We need oversight -- which can be achieved by using a team model. It's much harder for a doc or a therapist to get sloppy if they are being sloppy infront of WITNESSES.

[Megahurtz]

62. I don't.

I have Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrom and Major Depression,
which are both classified as "mental illnesses".

Should I be forced to take pills if I don't want to?

NOT!!!

[joeunderdog]

101. When you use the terms "lunatic" and "inmate" Re: mentally ill people

I can understand why you give them no credit to make their own decisions. It's kind of a primitive take on things.

The number one medication in the USA? P-R-O-S-A-C ! ! ! Let's surround the millions of users, hold their noses and make them swallow. Who's mentally ill and where do you draw the line?

I used to firmly believe in outpatient committment, but having worked with hundreds of the most significantly impaired people the state has to offer, I have come to realize that building a relationship with these people and having them UNDERSTAND the benefits (and risks) of taking meds is the best way to make sure they take them in the long run. Policing them only helps in the short run and ultimately turns them off to the whole idea. Might make the enforcers feel better, but the ultimate effect will be acting out, hospitalizations and increased need for services.

Trust me...forcing meds will not decrease costs or the need for services in most cases.

I do feel, however, that if MI leads to lack of control of behavior resulting in crime, that there are times when medication monitoring is a reasonable part of probation.

[shadowknows69]

5. I assume

that means they're going to pay for my meds too? This is really bad. The asylums should be filling right up.

[Lilith Velkor]

71. Cheap asylum labor

We'll be required to work to pay for our meds. One day's labor will pay for half a day's meds, or something like that.

Hey, it's not paranoia when they really are out to get you...

[HuckleB]

90. ?

:shrug:

[Lilith Velkor]

111. interesting point

Care to elaborate?

[HuckleB]

112. Exactly.

:shrug:

[Lilith Velkor]

114. One word. That's progress.

Let's try this again.

You seem to have something on your mind. Don't be afraid to express it in words. The bill hasn't passed yet, so you will not be forced to take any expensive medication, nor will you be required to slave your life away at some subsidiary of Eli Lilly to pay for it, the debt stacking up year by year because they're paying you minimum wage.

At least not yet. But if you are feeling a little paranoid right now, I certainly understand.

[HuckleB]

115. Try again.

:shrug:

[Lilith Velkor]

116. Not now, I gotta take a shit.

Maybe later.

:hurts:

[Ilsa]

10. I think there might be some extreme cases

where this is warranted, but I can't imagine forcing everyone with a diagnosis to take them. Not everyone is dangerous to themselves or others just because they have been diagnosed. If family members had beeter social support for their mentally ill loved ones, maybe this wouldn't be a problem.

[Mizmoon]

12. Interestingly, the only political party that makes civil rights

of mentally ill people a platform plank is the Socialist Party of the USA.

[bicentennial_baby]

13. Ah, the death of civil liberties in America....

ain't it grand? Yeah, why should an adult have the right to say no to what goes in their bodies...:puke:

[zalinda]

17. There is a point to both sides

I think the criteria should be something on the more drastic side. What if a person is waving a knife around in the neighborhood, because he has delusions? Does he have a right or does the neighborhood? If a person can't make decisions because of his illness, is it better to let him perish or make him take his meds.

I think the demarcation, should be "can this person function" in society, not function successfully, but function. Some can not function enough even to make a decision to take their meds. And some, are perfectly sane while on meds, but make the decision that they are "cured" and go off their meds.

It comes down to what is the greater good, when dealing with each person. Should a person who is violent without his meds be allowed to roam a neighborhood? Should a person who can't take care of themselves be allowed to waste away homeless? I think only those who have serious problems should be forced to take meds. And I think it should only be done with a board of experts and a study of the person.

zalinda

[Mizmoon]

23. The strawman of the dangerous mental patient

I understand what you're getting at, but this is part of the myth of the dangerous psych patient.
------------
Mindless and Deadly
Media hype on mental illness and violence

Extra! May/June 2001

By Phyllis Vine

Buried deep in a New York Times story (1/30/01) about the brutal murder of Dartmouth professors Susanne and Half Zantop, resides a common prejudice linking violence with mental illness. Speculating on the reason for the attack, the paper noted that Half Zantop "had once tried to help a mentally ill young man."

When two local youth were arrested--neither suffering from overt psychosis--the knee-jerk response seemed groundless. Yet the initial impression associating the crime with mental illness had already been molded.

When a Manhattan woman was assaulted with a brick by an unknown assailant, the New York Daily News (11/19/99) ran two-inch block letters across the front-page, demanding: "GET THE VIOLENT CRAZIES OFF OUR STREETS."

The New York Times (11/20/99) flayed the Daily News for its "throat-grabbing covers," but not for its erroneous assumptions. Daily News editor Brian Kates summarized the situation when he told a Times reporter that people assumed "the guy who did it was probably deranged. Obviously that remains to be seen."

When the eventual suspect turned out to be neither schizophrenic nor bi-polar, the pundits were hardly apologetic: "Drake turns out not to have been the insane box-dweller many thought an eventual brick-attack suspect would be," New York Post columnist Rod Dreher said (12/2/99). And some just kept hammering on the mentally ill; "Whatever Drake's mental condition might be, those loons on the loose who pose threats to the citizenry are still out there because of mental-illness policies that need to be revised," opined Daily News columnist Stanley Crouch (12/2/99).

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1064

[zalinda]

55. Actually, I was thinking of a story of man that was

on one of those TV news shows, who was threatening the people in his neighborhood. He would smash car windows and yell and scream at people. He was quite frightening and keeps getting arrested, and then goes to the hospital for evaluation. While he's in the hospital, he is put on meds and then his violent behavior goes away so he is let out of the hospital, back on to the street. He lives on SS, because of his condition. He is fine for awhile and then stops taking his meds, and starts threatening this neighborhood again. He believes he has the right to not take his meds no matter what happens, to the neighborhood around him. He cannot be permanently put away until he hurts or kills someone.

Not all mentally ill people are violent, that is true. And, not all violent people are mentally ill. There should be standards that all can agree should be followed.

zalinda

[Occulus]

98. here's the story I talked about above, post #97

http://www.freep.com/news/health/mental19_20000919.htm

Killing challenges mental illness policy

A promising life ended in a bus station, raising issues on community treatment

September 19, 2000

BY WENDY WENDLAND-BOWYER
and PATRICIA MONTEMURRI
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITERS

It was a chance encounter between two strangers at a Kalamazoo bus station, shocking, brutal, senseless.

Kevin Heisinger, a smart, sensitive and generous 24-year-old, was traveling to Ann Arbor, planning to enroll this semester at the University of Michigan, earn a graduate degree in social work and spend his life helping others.

Brian Williams, 40, an occasional student who battled paranoid schizophrenia, was on his way to Chicago. He planned to visit his dad, who had no idea his son was coming.

The story of Williams and Heisinger is one of missed warnings and questions about the treatment of mentally ill people in Michigan.

Lots, lots more at the link.

[HuckleB]

39. Indeed.

The ethics of the issue are multi-layered, with a plethora of gray shades. What does one do, for example, with an anorexic child who is now in his or her 20s? Some parents have gone to court to get custody to "force" the child into treatment. The ethics of this can certainly be debated ad nauseum. Yet, interestingly, when it comes to anorexia, studies now show that "treatment against will" is quite successful with teens and young adults. One theory regarding this success is that such treatment allows the person with anorexia to refeed his or her brain to the point, where choosing treatment can be made more by the logical brain than by the emotional brain controlling the anorexia. So, is it ethical for parents to take custody of adult children in such situations, knowing that many lives are at stake -- and that treatment has a good chance at success by comparison to older strategies? I don't have a quick answer to that myself.

[Mizmoon]

40. In Britain a man was "arrested" as a psych patient for obesity

I can't provide a link because the article is expired.
-----------------------------------
Fat police lock up Chris

SOBBING 31-stone Chris Leppard was dragged off to a mental hospital against his will by meddling social workers and police.

Chris, 23, has been forcibly detained for a month because he cannot stop eating.

The authorities used powers normally used to detain mentally ill people who might harm themselves or others.

They locked him up despite the fact neither he nor his family wanted him to go. Last night Chris’s furious mother Anne said he has no mental problems and was winning his fight against the rare illness that compels him to eat.

[HuckleB]

51. Uh huh.

What does that have to do with what I wrote?

[yowzayowzayowza]

18. There is no perfect ...

solution to this problem. If this moves the mentally ill from prison to a truly correctional facility, itz gotta be an upgrade.

[Massacure]

25. I'd like to see how this law is written. I hope it is case by case.

One big blanket sounds like a disaster.

[HuckleB]

29. Exactly.

Good job cutting to the bottom line.

Salud.

[MetaTrope]

27. The bottom line

Big profits for Big Pharma AND Wackenhut!

[donsu]

30. yes and a way to control more people

big Pharma has started testing teens in public schools for mental problems and issuing medication. parents are suing. article posted recently.

[truth2power]

33. Donsu, could you post a link to that article if you have it?

I must have missed it. Didn't see the post. Thanks!

Never mind. Found it. I already have New Freedom Initiative saved to HD. Was interested in the parents who are suing.

[Megahurtz]

64. Hey! There ya go!

Profits for Big Pharma! I bet that's the idea!:think:

[habitual]

37. all i can say is...

I SMELL A RAT. it smells really bad. something isn't right about this.

[Deja Q]

43. Societal costs? Get that guy to pull his head out of his gross part...

We are not a society. We are men, women, and familieis. Ownership society. By our own bootstraps.

If we can't pay for needs and medicines, we're gone.

[Benhurst]

46. Amen. The United States is no longer a society, it's a social disease.

[underthedome]

52. explain please. *nt

nt

[The Flaming Red Head]

54. tardive dyskinesia, extrapyramidal symptoms, pseudo parkinsonism

the drooling, the tongue rolling, the rigidity, the posible liver complications, death, and the never forgettable thorazine shuffle; I guess that's all for their own good, too.

But the good thing about crazy people is they can't file for malpractice or go against the pharmaceuticals.

[joeunderdog]

74. Don't forget the new Epidemic in the MI population--Diabetes.

Seroquil, Olanzepine, Respirdol all work really well...

but you get Diabetes. It's the side effect they don't tell you about.

I've worked in Mental Health nearly 20 years and I'm horrified. It's hard enough to help people manage their lives in a healthy way without having to adjust to Diabetes, the lifestyle limitations, the condition's secondary medical issues and needing to care for needles and Insulin.

For as miraculously as they treat the symptoms of MI, they should be off the market. Drugs doing far less damage have been yanked. Diabetes kills.

[The Flaming Red Head]

79. I know some children taking one of those (young boys)

They're currently partially in the custody of the state, so the Mom has very little say over the treatment.

[The Flaming Red Head]

80. When they tested older anti psychotics if the rats tail stood straight out

and it's body grew rigid then they knew it would work like that on mentally ill. Crazy people don't need Dopamine; I mean, what's a little chemically induced Parkinson's as long as you don't hear those pesky voices. Thorazine, Haladol, etc.

[HuckleB]

102. More Info. Re: Diabetes and Atypical Antipsychotic Medication.

Diabetes Mellitus Associated With Atypical Antipsychotic Medications: New Case Report and Review of the Literature:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/405862

Incidence of Newly Diagnosed Diabetes Attributable to Atypical Antipsychotic Medications:
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/161/9/1709

Antipsychotic Drugs Increase Children's Diabetes 2 Risk:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=15389

Rate of New-Onset Diabetes Among Patients Treated With Atypical or Conventional Antipsychotic Medications for Schizophrenia:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/466800

[Malva Zebrina]

58. I worked in two different hospitals for the mentally ill

One a state hospital, the other a private facility. The difference in treatment was profound.

This was before the newer drugs used today were on the market and you would be appalled at the stories I could tell.

Most people do not realize the extent, or the true symptomology extant in mental illness. Many think they are "depressed" have manic-depression because they cannot cope with some stress in their life. Xanax is needed. They have never seen true manic depression in it's full blown existence. If they had, they would never claim to be bi polar.

Anyhow, I was taken aback when Reagan shut down the hospitals. I do think people who are seriously ill, need concentrated treatment, by professionals and doctors. This does not constitute imprisonment, provided the facility is well staffed and the staff well taught and trained. There is the rub--the cost. Near 400 billion spent on a useless war that fills the pockets of warmongers and war profiteers, that kills thousands of human beings, and we cannot help these people. I am of the opinion that those who are violent and who are a threat to themself and others, do need treatment in a facility. Are they able to make the decsiion themself whether to stop that behavior that is indeed a part of their illness? I think not, therefore, with some reservation, I think they must be medicated to get the ball rolling, even if they object.

I remember back to those years long ago when Ritalin, yes Ritalin, was the drug of choice, because there was no other, period. Same syptoms--drooling shuffling gate, etc. and remember wishing and hoping that some day science will discover the cause of Schizophrenia or manic depression, from which so many suffered.

We have not reached that point yet,and don't seem to be anywhere near that, so I continue to wish and to hope that scientists will uncover the cause and be able to cure these suffering people.

[Ezlivin]

60. Billy just went off his meds and Claire doesn't know it

He's a manic depressive and it's just a matter of time before he goes off.

This bill could help Billy.

That's fine for the characters on "Six Feet Under", but how it will play out in the world of reality?

[Chimpeach]

63. "Medic-a-a-a-a-a-a-tion Time!"

(Nurse Ratchett)

[truthisfreedom]

65. all doped up and nowhere to go

nuts.

[TrogL]

68. ...and if some incompetent doctor prescribes the wrong meds?

Or they start causing problems like tardive disknesia, then what?

[Lilith Velkor]

72. Tough shit! n/t

[SoCalDem]

69. Um... a few problems with this...

1. what if they cannot afford their meds??
2. what if they don't think they NEED their meds?
3. How much will it cost to hire "minders" for every 'mentally ill' person?
4. Who's gonna pay the psychiatrists to prescribe the meds?

[lonestarnot]

70. This is another Nazi bill! Joseph Mengele...vee mus take our pills

darlings... diagnosis of mental illness will be rampant as an easy and readily available means of social control! The community word should be a clue.

[halobeam]

73. I agree. This is not a reasonable and intelligent way

to handle the mentally ill. I had depression, was misdiagnosed with bipolar, drugged to the umpteenth degree (because the bipolar meds weren't working... duh. cuz I didn't have it), then they drugged me so far from here to Tuesday, I lost four days memory.

Thank god I had a well informed family, saw that all the patients were over drugged, pulled me out against Doc. orders and transfered me to a place where I was lucky and got help from people who properly diagnosed me correctly. I've even been off all anti- depressants going on three years now.

It's UNBELIEVABLE the over drugging they do. I'm a regular person with no past history of illness who became depressed and that was once in my life.

The answers are therapy with a diagnosis that has had at LEAST a second opinion. Minimum meds if nec. and again more talk therapy.

I'm not a doctor, but I've been on the other side. I could write a book.

[lonestarnot]

75. So glad you are better.... drugs are not the only answer for depression.

A loving family really helps doesn't it... Some people have no one and they are the ones I worry about being used as examples of this social control.

[NashVegas]

78. It's Very Believable, The Overdrugging They Do

I once had a Xanax winter and got through it just fine taking 1/2 the prescribed doses.

I'm convinced that 2/3 of the children diagnosed with ADD are suffering from a different kind of attention deficit, in the form of parental neglect.

[kineneb]

82. Glad you no longer need the meds, but I still do.

A voice from over here in the land of managed mental illness. I have suffered at least five major depressive episodes over my life, beginning when I was a small child. I have wanted to kill myself because I was in so much pain. I figure I have about 10 years total of memory loss due to the depression. My problem is genetic, traceable at least back to my great grandmother. Even with a relatively sympathetic family, I could not function without the 40mg of Paxil every morning. I still see my shrink periodically for therapy.

All I can say is depression is like living in hell without dying.

I don't know about forcing people to take their meds. All I know is that Hubby makes sure I take mine every morning. Otherwise, by the afternoon, I start feeling bad.

[halobeam]

83. I am so sorry you have/are going through this.

My one depression, please understand, took a couple of years to get through. I know the misdiagnosis was a serious set back. I understand the darkness of the days and the tortured nights that blend into one another until death becomes a fantasy, believe me, I do. I hope I didn't come off sounding as though therapy alone is the answer. I strongly believe medication can be a matter of life and death with depression.

I guess this matter of forced medication for children is what hits the raw nerve in me and brought me to disclose this personal experience. I feel there are so many doctors that think medication with unsupervised therapy sessions (meaning NOT keeping tabs that their patient is seeing one, and OFTEN) should be grounds for their license to be revoked permanently. They dish this stuff out, many patients do not see a second or third opinion for their diagnosis, and the doctors do NOT follow up on their patients' visits to a therapist.

I found a very spiritually oriented therapist, who believed in fixing the whole person and she succeeded. I was lucky. It took almost six years total to become whole again, and better yet, become whole for the first time, and that can not be undone. meds when stopped, the effects stop. therapy when stopped(at the right time), the effects last forever, if its done right. The balance of the two are the key.

I wonder how many people do not meet the right fit in the person they are entrusting their entire well being on. When they don't, I wonder if they can ever fully recover. Life can suck, depression can kill, if not the person, the spirit.

I may have lost four days of memory, but decades of self medication as a teen with pot, and drinking can blur an entire youth right out of mind.

You are right. It is a living hell. I hope your periodic therapy sessions are what you find most comforting. When that happens, I have learned that the meds then become the car to get you to the destination. They may not be the destination itself, just the tool that got you there.

SSRI's may be necessary for maintenance, but anyone taking them for a long period of time might want to be sure that they are happy to maintain their current state of mind and life for that matter, because that is what they will be maintaining with the meds. I guess that's where excellent therapy comes into play.

[kineneb]

84. Thanks. I do the best I can.

The last depressive episode was several years ago when I was in graduate school. I guess the stress and lack of sleep got to me. It took me about two years to recover, and I still have to be very careful. I am afraid of the cycles between episodes becoming shorter and shorter, which is what the literature on depression warns about.

Now I am trying to work full time while caring for Hubby, who has diabetes, kidney disease and congestive heart failure. And because of our financial situation, we will probably have to file for bankruptcy.

I spend a lot of time digging in my garden as therapy.

[American Tragedy]

119. Personally, I found talk therapy to be a pointless waste of time.

In my late teens I went through two psychiatrists and three therapists before finally quitting. It was consistently boring and awkward trying to come up with something to say. I hated it. Just an excuse to drain more money. The doctors were even worse.

I've just switched to a nearby general practitioner who actually listens to me and takes my judgment seriously, and I wish to God I had done it sooner. I'm finally in charge.

[halobeam]

127. I can understand that.

As I mentioned before, I was misdiagnosed, over medicated and had LOUSY therapists for the first year. Then it took about six more therapists before I found the right one. She is extremely spiritual and I found that to be the missing element, for me anyway. I'm happy to hear that you have got it down pat now. I can say, I'm there too. Result for the two of us equals recovery. How we got here is quite different. I'd just hate to see someone who needs to be heard, stop trying to find the right fit after some failed attempts. Perseverance, determination, whatever gets you to the result, is what counts.

[shrike]

99. Been there, done that

I was on 20mg of Prozac for ten years and it worked very well. Suddenly, after a bout with the flu, I had thoughts of wanting to kill myself. My husband had never known me when I was in the throes of depression and it scared the heck out of him. I ended up calling the mental health number of our insurance company, and believe it or not, they were very helpful. "Sounds to me like you need a med adjustment," she said. "Go in and see your doctor now; don't wait." She even called the doctor's office to make sure I got there. Doc increased the dosage by 10 mg and it made all the difference.

People who've never experienced mental illness have no clue what it's like. No clue. Hell without death; that's a good description. They also have no idea the burden it puts on families. That's why I have mixed emotions about this bill: on the one hand, I hate the government telling me to do anything. On the other, severe mental illness, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and the like, reeks havoc on the lives of loved ones. Something has to be done; if not this bill, then something else.

[halobeam]

117. I say SOMETHING ELSE.

Not this bill. There are many alternatives to these issues, they are plenty individualized too, and a generic, across the board plan like this is dangerous at best.

I'm very sorry to hear these types of stories. I've lived it, survived it, and curse it. My best to you.

[Redstone]

76. Actually, I think it's a good idea.

There are people out there who get really violent and hurt other people when they go off their medication. Many of them have a track record of this behavior, so it's not just Big Brother,

I think society has a perfect right to insist that those people take their medicine.

Got children? How'd you feel if one of your kids was hurt by someone who needed medication to control violent impulses, and just didn't "feel like" taking it, and nobody made him do it?

That stuff DOES happen.

Flame away if you wish.

Redstone

[Geo55]

77. First ,...they came for the Jews..........

[yowzayowzayowza]

81. Wow!

I didn't realize Jews were sent to Auschwitz by family members, frantic to protect the well-being of their loved ones. Silly me. :freak:

...some interesting horizons in this thread.

[Geo55]

87. a slippery slope

"Soon after Hiltler took power, the Nazis formulated policy based on their vision of biologically "pure" population, to create an "Aryan master race." The "Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases," proclaimed July 14, 1933, forced the sterilization of all persons who suffered from diseases considered hereditary, such as mental illness (schizophfrenia and manic depression), retardation ("congenital feeble-mindedness"), physical deformithy, epilepsy, blindness, deafness, and severe alcolholism."


http://www.holocaust-trc.org/hndcp.htm

Have you ever been "medicated" with such mind wiping drugs as Thorozine against your will ?

[yowzayowzayowza]

96. Worse than forced myself,

I have repeatedly sought over the last four and a half decades for my mother to be forced to take her medication. That either makes me a bad son or you TOTALLY ignorant to the devastation caused by schizophrenia. Like it or not, god put her on that slippery slope not her actions or those of me, my family or doctors, the majority of which truly seek to ease suffering, not model themselves after Joseph Mengele. Get a freaken clue. There is a reason FAMILIES of the afflicted are behind this.

[Geo55]

103. I can empathize with your situation , but

"new law that would require some people with mental illness to take prescribed psychiatric medications or face involuntary admission to a state hospital."

getting a clue also involves realizing how this law can be used for other than "righteous" situations.

[yowzayowzayowza]

104. Any organization of man,

from government to church to business to union, is going to be fraught with the full spectrum of human foibles.

Due to the complexities of mental illness, the new law is likely to fail in some instances for manifold reasons. That doesn't mean it will overall be a failure. This is alot like triage. They are simply looking to upgrade the shortcomings of the current methodology.

[HuckleB]

88. Indeed.

Black and white thinking can be incredibly harmful to those dealing with mental illness. Alas, there are far too many of us who've made up our beliefs regarding these matters more out of old wive's tales than actual knowledge.

[Rich Hunt]

94. excuse me...

But where in the article does it say "family members"?

Not that all "family members" are trustworthy either. Nor are all medications trustworthy.

I'm sure you also remember that many people can't afford medicines - RIGHT?

[HuckleB]

95. Check the last of the snipped paragraphs.

Having noted discussion at NAMI gatherings and online, many family members have been pushing such legislation, in Maine and elsewhere.

[usregimechange]

85. That is just wrong, by the same logic DFS could investigate all

citizens and catch more abusers.

[joshcryer]

86. Honestly, I desise government intervention... but part of me...

Part of me wishes someone had intervened in my life 5 years ago. Had 'forced' me to take the drugs (I put 'forced' in quotes, because it is absolutely a choice, it just takes time to get past the inital reluctance), seek help, and all that. I am amazed that I managed to do this without any help whatsoever (none of my family cared). I'm lucky.

I regret those 5 years of being pretty much crazy so much.

But I don't think the government needs to tell us to do that. Treat others with compassion.

[shrike]

100. Yes, you are

Lucky, that is. But you are also a tough person with a strong will to survive; otherwise, you would never have made it through. I agree completely: there has to be a way to get people to get help without the iron hand of the government coming down.

[HuckleB]

92. The Nazis, Joseph Mengele, Racketeers, and Thorazine Drips...

actually have nothing to do with such legislation. Bringing up such hyperbole only serves to create a bigger divide among those who hold differing opinions, and who should be working to understand one another, as, most likely, most people want to find and provide the best care for those who need it, even if there is a great deal of question about what constitutes "best care."

[tibbir]

93. I have bipolar disorder and I know the value of taking my medicine.

. But if I'm not a danger to myself or others the State has no business forcing me to take medicine it deems appropriate.

[steve2470]

107. The courts need to evaluate each and every case

on an ongoing basis. Yes, there are mentally ill who really should spend their days being cared for in the appropriate place. There should be more funding for the mentally ill who choose to live in the community. But forcing patients to take meds ? Even I, as a MHP, do not agree with that one. In Florida, a patient can be court ordered to submit to medication if they are in an inpatient setting. Otherwise, I do not believe they can be forced to take meds. The current system in my state, although poorly funded and imperfect, strikes a good balance between civil rights and caring for the mentally ill. When the day comes that the government can simply force someone to take meds because they have socially unacceptable behavior, is a step down the wrong path.

[American Tragedy]

113. It might be appropriate in some individual cases.

Don't get me wrong, it's a bad bill, and grossly excessive for people stricken with common mood disorders like major depression.

However, desperate measures are required for those who are delusional and pose a legitimate threat to themselves and others.

Like, for example, a certain somebody who tried to slaughter an infant with a butcher knife in order to extract demons.

[union_maid]

118. It's very difficult either way

Where I work we see mentally ill people with no real way to care for themselves every day. The "lucky" ones get to live in an adult home, which might be OK, but just as easily might be a hell hole. And...when they're located in the middle of a housing bubble..well an awful lot are being closed as the owners sell off the property as soon as they are contractually able.

We get calls from family members who are frantic about a mentally ill relative who refuses all help and is impossible to maintain at home, or who has simply left home and is out on the streets somewhere. As it is, they are often still involuntarily hospitalized, but often only after there's been an incident that ends up losing them their housing or has some other dire consequences.

[yowzayowzayowza]

122. You're dead on.

After refusing her medication Mawz most recent flare-up was very, very hostile. She would frantically inform all she met about her important conversations with dead folks on the TV, JFK, George Washington, etc. How does one have such conservations? Via the internet, of course. No, she did not have WebTV.

Despite her obvious behavior and a wrap sheet a mile long (she's a serial disturber of the peace in several states.), we could not get her committed. She finally assaulted a young mother and child verbally who filed charges, thus making her a "danger to others."

I picked her up ostensibly to run some of her personal errands, but instead drove her to a parking lot containing an arrest warrant wielding police officer. Recognizing the situation immediately, she let loose with one of her tirades, beginning with not trusting "hyenas and wolves," that would be doctors and lawyers in her idiom. Most of the rest was drowned out by the clacking of her dislodged dentures, which might have been humorous under other circumstances.

They held her for a coupla weeks and put her on one of the newer medications. She has been symptom free for five years. She still suffers from the ravages of decades of both the disease and ineffective treatments. These five years are prolly the longest period of peace shez had in the last four and a half decades.

[EFerrari]

137. (Reading this thread backwards, lol)

Also check out: www.psychlaws.org

They're wonderful, for judicious court mandated meds AND most of the staffers were once so ill they didn't know what they needed either. They do great work there.

[AX10]

120. Mental "illness" is a myth.

It's meant to control the masses. Let's medicate anyone who the powers that be disagree with.

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AX10]

124. Same to you.

[yowzayowzayowza]

126. I rest my case.

fin.

[fleabert]

123. tell that to me when I am caring for my mother

while she is in the middle of a psychotic break.

you have no clue what you are talking about.

[EFerrari]

128. I'm with you, fleabert. I nearly got killed many times until I

managed to get my husband on antipsychotics with a REAL doctor who knew how to monitor them. Since then, no decomps for over five years.

Sheeeeeeeeeesh. Most of these people don't know their @ss from their elbow on this one.

And none of them have ever been Andrea Yates.

[yowzayowzayowza]

131. Metrics rearrange themselves instantly when...

due to a lack of medication/support "a danger to others" becomes a loved one is a CONSTANT danger to ME.

[EFerrari]

136. Yep. And with the tech we have, NONE of us should ever have

to go there. But we do, every day, somewhere.

Hey, check this org out, it's Canadian but their model is right on:

The World Fellowship for Schizophrenia and Related Disoders

[HuckleB]

125. What you're spreading is a dangerous myth.

Unless you're going to argue that all illness is a myth, you're going to have a very difficult time arguing such a claim -- and, of course, even then the evidence is against you. Why would the brain have some ability to be perfect, to never be affected by disease, while the rest of the body faces such obstacles?

[EFerrari]

138. ANOSOGNOSIA

IMPAIRED AWARENESS OF ILLNESS (ANOSOGNOSIA): A MAJOR PROBLEM FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH SCHIZOPHRENIA AND BIPOLAR DISORDER

SUMMARY: Impaired awareness of illness (anosognosia) is a major problem because it is the single largest reason why individuals with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder do not take their medications. It is caused by damage to specific parts of the brain, especially the right hemisphere. It affects approximately 50 percent of individuals with schizophrenia and 40 percent of individuals with bipolar disorder. When taking medications, awareness of illness improves in some patients.

More at link:

http://www.psychlaws.org/BriefingPapers/BP14.htm

[theearthisround]

139. This + New Freedom = Brave New World

[Hekate]

140. Freedom for the very sick: perfectly free to sleep in alleys

That's the problem with leaving it all up to sick people to seek the help they need -- some have enough self-awareness to stay on their meds, but if an individual lacks sufficient self-awareness, society's lack of interference may only condemn them to a life of misery and destitution. We really should be asking ourselves what kind of society abandons people too sick to take care of themselves?

An inordinate number of street people are dual-diagnosis, that is, not only mentally ill but alcoholic or drug addicted. There's growing evidence that substance abuse may be a form of self-medication in the mentally ill -- they feel better for awhile, and maybe the voices quiet down.

Furthermore, our jails and prisons have become the largest "mental health system" in the country, because unmedicated sick people who act out frequently run afoul of the law, and there's no place else to send them except jail. You can imagine the quality of care and protection these vulnerable people receive in prison. What kind of society jails people too sick to take care of themselves?

Our old system of involuntary commitment in mental institutions needed a thorough overhaul, but complete dismantlement of the system was not the answer. I walk past the bedraggled evidence of that nearly every time I go downtown nowadays.

Hekate