White House defends comments that insurgency in "last throes"

[sabra]

<<SNIP>>
http://www.krqe.com/expanded.asp?ID=10613

White House defends comments that insurgency in "last throes"
Source: AP

WHITE HOUSE -- The White House is defending Vice President Cheney's assertion that the Iraq insurgency is in its "last throes."
White House officials reject a top GOP senator's assertion that administration claims on Iraq are "completely disconnected from reality."

The senator -- Nebraska's Chuck Hagel -- says in a magazine interview the reality is that America is "losing in Iraq."

However, Press Secretary Scott McClellan says President Bush is optimistic -- and he gets his information direct from US commanders. He says Iraqi security forces are getting "better each week" at thwarting insurgent attacks.

Meantime, the spokesman says the administration stands by Cheney's assessment of Iraq in a recent TV interview. McClellan says the terrorist and regime elements there are clearly desperate -- since they've got nothing to offer but chaos and death.

<</SNIP>>

[Ishoutandscream2]

1. Ah, Joseph Goebbels would be proud

Just keep repeating the lie over and over, and the sheep will accept it as truth.

[snickersnee]

45. i think goebbels would be mortified

at such a maladroit attempt at propaganda. i know he was a fan of the "big lie", but this hardly rises to "embarrassing tantrum".

where to go from here? hold your breath until you turn purple? neener neener neener, i'm not list-ening...

(for the record i agree with you. i just think goebbels was an evil genius, not just an evil bastard).

[tk2kewl]

2. Yes, of course. We've turned the corner in Iraq.

[malaise]

3. The death throes

of Iraqi citizens would have been way more appropriate.
<edit> added two words.

[habitual]

4. i was hoping they would choose this line of (re)action

Yes!! I was hoping they would be just so stupid to continue to offer the "rosy" picture that all the puppets are starting to realize is bull! If they can just stay on message, keep offering these upbeat assessments while we continue to lose the war over there, they will go down quickly.

[mike_c]

5. things are looking up....

Victory is just around the corner. That's the ticket....

[UpInArms]

27. perhaps they are waiting for this map to be solid red

[section321]

37. I see a lot more red in the blue states then the red states.

If they're so thrilled with Bush's war they should be offering up more of their children for his doomed foreign adventure.

[Igel]

42. But I think that's an artefact of the way it's presented.

I'm fairly sure I've read that most fatalities have occurred in red areas, even if some of those are in blue states. A county or congressional district breakdown would be more useful.

[Logician]

47. I think it has to do with population density

What the map does not reveal is the underlying population density. The northeast is so incredibly dense. The number of metro NYers is somewhere around 8 million? Boston metro 3.5 - 4 million? Something like that.

So when comparing the number of deaths, remember to think of it as the number of death per total population in each state. I think that you would find the rates of combat deaths might be higher in the red states because fewer live there.

[punpirate]

6. Umm, Lyndon Johnson...

... got his information "direct from US commanders," too. And, for maybe eight years, we heard that it would only be a little while longer before ARVN and the South Vietnamese government would be up to the task of defending themselves....

[LiberallyInclined]

34. that must have been one bright light...

cuz' it was a helluva long tunnel.

[Roland99]

7. "they've got nothing to offer but chaos and death" That's their excuse??

By that standard, this administration is also in its "last throes"

[Langis]

8. I don't understand the media...

This has been the Administration line since late summer of '03. Bush has said many times that the insurgency is getting worse because they are becoming desperate and losing. My questing would be how bad does it need to get before we win? Are we truly winning when we are losing 10+ solders a day? Because by Bushes measure we would be doing 5 times better then we are now if that were the case. Why doesn’t the media call them on it?

[underpants]

16. First off anything that starts with "The Bush administration says.."

Should be immediately discounted. I think a lot of people are finally clueing into that.

Second- the timeline of "turning the corner"

1.When Baghdad falls
2.When Saddam is captured
3.When the CPA hands over authority
4.When the Iraqis convene a legislature
5.When elections (thank you Sistani) are held

Now I think they are saying that when a Constitution is written and implimented.....

[NewJeffCT]

9. Their desperation was apparent 2 years ago, too

Didn't Bush say that right around the time he told the insurgents to "Bring it on"?

He also said that their attacks were a sign of desperation then, too. I guess maybe they're referring to geological time, or at least dog years?

[rurallib]

10. The south never quit in our civil war

they finally won in 1980.

[Oreo]

11. What does he expect revolutionaries to offer?

Flowers and hugs?

I'd say if you're a revolutionary and you're offering chaos and death... you're doing your job.

[rooboy]

12. "The Fuehrer is personally commanding the battle..." n/t

[Felix Mala]

28. WH announces Pres. will remain in bunker until ulty victory in Iraq

[Debau2005]

13. 60's - 70's

I was a child during the Viet Nam Conflict and during Watergate. Are there any books, websites, etc that lay out the political scene during that time? I am curious as to how close we are now to reliving that era.

[Kelvin Mace]

17. check out

"The 10,000 Day War: Vietnam"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312790945/qid=1119369081/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-7586630-0535225?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[Debau2005]

35. Thanks!

They have it at my library, I have reserved it for pick up this afternoon.

[Kelvin Mace]

44. What I like about this books is it shows why invading

Vietnam has *always* been a bad idea.

[smoogatz]

18. The "don't worry, be happy" government bromide during Vietnam was

"there's light at the end of the tunnel." Numerous wags speculated at the time that the light was most likely an oncoming train.

The situations are closely analogous: a significant part of the Vietnamese population saw us as unwelcome occupiers; we fought a well-trained, well-supplied, highly adaptable insurgency in the Viet Cong; arms, money and combatants flowed across uncontrolled borders from neighboring states hostile to U.S. interests; military tactics were largely determined by civilian political ideologues, with disastrous effects; atrocities were committed by U.S. troops in the name of Freedom and Democracy; dramatic escalation of our role in Vietnam was justified with fabricated evidence; clear standards for "victory" were never defined; significant numbers of combat troops first entered Vietnam shortly after a catastrophic event on U.S. soil--the assassination of JFK--which shocked the American people and may in fact have been a coup d'etat committed by pro-war hawks within the government.

[Bridget Burke]

19. And "We're winning hearts & minds."

Why don't I ever get more pleasant Flashbacks?

[smoogatz]

20. Winning the hearts and minds of the Vietnamese people

by killing them in extremely large numbers--and cratering their villages and fields, and poisoning their children with chemical weapons, and turning their women into whores. Geez, sarge--how come these damn people hate us? We're doin' 'em a favor!

[section321]

39. A significant difference is the absence of "Commies" on the other side.

A significant feature of Vietnam was USSR/China on the other side supplying North Vietnam. China even shared a border with Vietnam thereby facilitating their ability to supply North Vietnam with weapons. I don't see any major party on the other side of the table supporting the Iraq insurgency in the same way that USSR/China supported North Vietnam. It does not appear that the Iraq insurrgency is anywhere near as well equipped as the NVA and VC.

That said, they do appear to be getting more sophisticated and I'm sure they are receiving some sort of support from somewhere.

[smoogatz]

40. I think there's a case to be made that Syria is covertly supporting

the Ba'athist remnant that's driving the bulk of the insurgency. And many of the non-Iraqi insurgents turn out to be (surprise, surprise!) Saudis. On the other side, Iran is openly funding and arming the Shi'ite militias.

[symbolman]

14. I'm actually waiting to hear him say

that they are throwing flowers at our troops again..

Optimistic? So was Hitler. Mussolini, etc..

What a jagoff.. if it's so safe there pal, how about taking a stroll down the main street of Falluja without 700 of your body guards?

Let's SEE IT.

Now THAT would be Pay Per View in my opinion :)

[warrens]

29. Don't forget the "Bring 'em on" tshirt

With the pretty red circle over the heart.

[rodeodance]

32. i would like to see cheney et all take that walk--WHITOUT body guards.

[wtmusic]

15. Running on a platform of chaos and death

worked pretty well for the President

[gratuitous]

21. Then why won't they give a timeline?

Terry Moran of ABCNews asked Snottie over and over again for an estimate on how long these "last throes" could be expected to continue? Snottie kept dodging the question before finally calling on someone else at the press gaggle last week.

[alarcojon]

22. Once again, damage control

over an assinine comment from Oily Dick. Where are those "reconstituted nuclear weapons," asswipe?

[shawn703]

23. Scott McClellan = Baghdad Bob

[NewJeffCT]

26. good one - may I steal that idea for a LTTE?

Scott McClellan, the White House Spokesman, seems to have taken a page out of Baghdad Bob's playbook. In a sign that the White House is increasingly divorced from reality, McClellan is now defending Dick Cheney's remarks that the Iraqi rebellion is in its death throes and desparate. If you rewind two years ago, McClellan was saying almost exactly the same thing about the insurgency....

[shawn703]

46. Sure

What is LTTE? But you can still use it. :)

[strizi64]

24. they should stay by every single statment

I should write "fu***ng statment", don't ever give up a single lie, dismiss everything, accept no proof for the oposite. Time is working for your side, just let them talk ant they will be flushed away 2006. If they go on like these days, it will be a landslide for DNC and THEN you can impeach BushCo.....

[UCLA Dem]

25. Ahhh...how nice of them to share their fantasies with us!!

[onenote]

30. last throes = light at the end of the tunnel

The more things change, the more they stay the same.....

"Where have all the soldiers gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the soldiers gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the soldiers gone?
Gone to graveyards every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn..."
(Pete Seeger)


onenote

[fob]

31. Anyone NOT believe that says bush* thinks "throes" is spelled "throws".

It'll be nigh on impossible to get him to spell it, but there could be an instance of him using it as if it were spelled "throws" and I think that would qualify, agree?

[rodeodance]

36. cheny vs the Generals on the ground quotes

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/site/pp.asp?c=klLWJcP7H&b=100480#7
DAILY GRILL

"I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency."
-- Vice President Dick Cheney, 5/30/05

VERSUS

"Certainly saying anything about 'breaking the back' or 'about to reach the end of the line' or those kinds of things do not apply to the insurgency at this point."
-- Gen. William Webster, U.S. commander for Baghdad, 6/18/05

[LiberallyInclined]

33. geologically speaking...

they could be right.

but then- aren't we all...?

[fryguy]

38. ah the old "light at the end of the tunnel" argument

it worked so well in the 1960's....

[damntexdem]

41. Lessee: the WH defends Cheneys lies even though ...

even Dubya had already undercut them.

To every thing, spin spin spin, there's equivocation, spin spin spin,
a lie for every question under heaven.

[Barrett808]

43. So is the enemy both determined and in its last throes, at the same time?

Q So is the enemy both determined and in its last throes, at the same time?

MR. McCLELLAN: I think I addressed that question earlier.

From the press conference.

[struggle4progress]

48. Administration credibility is in its last throes. eom