Zim(babwe) begins destroying vegetable gardens

[meganmonkey]

Harare - Zimbabwe police have extended a demolition campaign targeting the homes and livelihoods of the urban poor to the vegetable gardens they rely on for food, saying the crops planted on vacant lots are damaging the environment.

President Robert Mugabe was quoted Tuesday as saying concern about the campaign was misplaced and agreeing to allow in a UN observer.

The crackdown on urban farming - at a time of food shortages in Zimbabwe - is the latest escalation in the government's monthlong Operation Murambatsvina, or Drive Out Trash, which has seen police torch the shacks of poor city dwellers, arrest street vendors and demolish their kiosks.
Mugabe defends the campaign as a cleanup drive. But the political opposition, which has its base among the urban poor, says the campaign is meant to punish its supporters.

more...
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=68&art_id=qw1119363120699B254

Talk about evil dictators. I wish our country could get our fricking priorities in order and help people who need it instead of bombing others for oil. First he rips down their homes and now destroying their food source - for opposing him.

:cry:

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. I know it

[geek tragedy]

2. I hope you brought your asbestos suit, because the Mugabe supporters

here are likely to flame you.

[meganmonkey]

5. Thanks for the warning

Are there really Mugabe supporters here? Geez...Maybe I'm missing some part of the story but that sounds crazy to me.

When I searched LBN to see if this was posted yet, only one item came up with 'Zimbabwe' and it got all of one reply, so I figured this would just be a dud too.

We'll see! :popcorn:

[Igel]

8. Yes, there are.

To badmouth him or say Zimbabwe's a mess is to either be assuming the "white man's burden", or be racist, or ignorant, or some other all-purpose insult.

Lose-lose.

Let's hope they stay away from this thread.

[quaoar]

42. Mugabe is a tyrant

If Bush were true to his words about defending democracy and human rights, he would send a battalion to Harare and haul Mugabe off in leg irons.

[Igel]

55. One would hope that something could be done to curtail his behavior.

But the surrounding nations would probably not encourage having a predominately white battalion violate their airspace or territory to topple a neighboring ruler.

White repub topples black freedom fighter. Can't imagine the UN general assembly giving that a pass, much less the security council.

[Taverner]

38. Does anyone still support Mugabe

He's gone from a leftist hero to a Pol Pot-esque despot in less than 10 years...

[Logansquare]

51. Some people here adored him when he was evicting white farmers

Restoring land to veterans, yeah, that was what he was doing.

[Judi Lynn]

52. You're gifted in being able to spot them.

They were probably minority lovers or commies. It's good you can point those enemies of the state out to your collegues.

[Logansquare]

58. No they were simpletons

Nationalism is a disease, whether it is based on geographic borders or ethnic background. Look to Rwanda or Bosnia as recent examples. Mugabe got rid of the whites because most of them supported his political opponents, and he wanted to redistribute land wealth to his cronies. He also imprisoned and most probably caused the murder of black political opponents, but the western press is racially biased, and underreported these human rights violations. It was White Farmers, 24x7, because if it isn't White it ain't News.

We can now see that the farmers got off lucky compared to Mugabe's black African opponents, especially the urban poor.

[Occulus]

59. Oh, fuck that

Mugabe is an asshole who deserves a couple treble hooks in his rear. Seriously, he's a horror upon that nation and deserves NO respect from me or anyone else.

That there are supporters of him here tells me one thing and one thing only: there are also disruptors here.

Fuck him AND his supporters. The guy's evil. Pure and simple.

(He's Bush, third world style.)

[liberal N proud]

3. When we are all living in the streets as they are in Zimbabwe

will they bulldoze our shanties and gardens?

[underpants]

4. Mugabe is batshit insane- He did both already

He forced the (white) farmers out and thought it would be great to give the land to the soldiers who fought for him, one problem-they are soldiers not farmers Zimbabwe was been in a starvation crisis ever since.

[Canuckistanian]

33. And another problem - some "soldiers" are far too young

They never fought with Mugabe.

[tridim]

6. I might have dreamed this, but didn't they try to do that here too?

I'm almost positive I read an article a few months ago that was talking about requiring a license to grow vegetables at home.

Obviously the Zimbabwe situation is infinitely more serious, but I just thought I'd point out the parallels.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

7. The problem...

The problem in dealing with Mugabe is that it means you've got to deal with Mugabe. There's no way he's going to give up power peacefully, and there's no way replacing him by force would lead to anything other than massive bloodshed.

[Karenina]

12. Kinda like the PNAC folks

who done seized the American gub'mint. Power mad loonies be pretty similar.

[robcon]

9. Where's the chorus?

By now, there are usually a half-dozen DUers defending the thug Mugabe because he stands up to the West. Like Castro, Mugabe's dictatorship is too often given a free ride on DU, IMO.

[meganmonkey]

10. "Like Castro"

I am by no means Castro's biggest fan but I don't think the 2 are comparable...

[Taverner]

39. Castro is a saint compared to Mugabe

Say what you will about Castro, but people don't starve in Cuba.

[MrPrax]

13. That's so stupid...

trolling, perhaps?

[Barrett808]

16. At least Castro encourages urban agriculture n/t

[K-W]

53. Castro doesnt get a free ride anywhere.

Giving people the whole story on Castro is a one sided affair because for decades the US has gotten only the other side and lots of it and full of lies at that.

The fact that educating people about reality in Cuba involves unweaving US propaganda first doesnt make people who do so Castro lovers.

Its also funny, because not a single Castro discussion can go on without several DU'rs making sure to police thier crazy leftist friends to keep them from loving castro too much, how is that a free ride?

I have seen people on DU who probably think too highly of Cuba's governing structure, but really nobody who thought Castro was anymore than he is.

[expatriot]

11. This kind of thing makes me think of Pol Pot or Mao. nt

[area51]

14. Bush

Bush & his buddies would love to do here what Mugabe is doing.

[mbperrin]

15. Anyone who keeps people from eating will burn in hell,

(this kind of thing makes me wish for one), and for sure, their names need to be added to a "later" list.

[bennywhale]

17. The people's suffering here can be partly blamed again on the

Iraq war, like the poor souls in Darfur. All military, political, diplomatic, commercial, and media power is concentrated on Iraq, while thousands are dying in other parts of the world. UN led intervention in Darfur and Zimbabwe would have recieved my full support, however its not even remotely on the agenda and thousands die.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. A peacekeeping mission to Darfur?

There's no peace to keep in Darfur. And Zimbabwe needs new leadership, not a peacekeeping team. They need rid of Mugabe, but he won't go quietly.

[bennywhale]

25. I wasn't talking about peacekeeping

by UN led i meant UN sanctioned. The UN (although not officially) gave its consent to the intervention in Kosovo.

Britain probably would have been best placed to act in Dafur. If they had not been entangled in the dirty mess that is Iraq public pressure could have been brought for them to act in conjunction with the AU.

Ditto Zimbabwe, as should have happened in Rwanda. Murder and social cleansing is happening today, i would support troops ridding the world of Zimbabwe's regime. Although his links with the worlds newest best friend, China, may hinder this.

[FlemingsGhost]

18. Some of you seem disappointed, by the responses to this thread ...

or should I say, lack of a particular response.

How telling.

Alas, a quick judgemental wave of the hand, the label of "evil" dicatator, and Americans can rightfully claim to understand the entire situation, to the fullest.

Then we start bombing, right?

[meganmonkey]

19. I have a feeling I am missing something

but I wish you would be more specific. If you disagree with my assessment, please educate me on your point of view.

Thanks!

[geek tragedy]

20. What's the point of your post, besides insulting Americans?

What do you think of Mugabe?

[FlemingsGhost]

22. I don't know enough of WHY these things are being done

Therefore, I don't feel it's prudent to comment.

To try, means offering up the same oversimplification and xenophobic generalizations that ALWAYS rear their ugly heads, when someone like Castro, Chavez and yes, even Mugabe are discussed at DU.

[meganmonkey]

23. Why don't you respond to individuals who behave xenophobically

and who generalize rather than making vague comments against which people can't defend themselves?

If I (as the OP) said something xenophobic I would like you to bring it to my attention.

Thanks.

on edit: as far as not knowing enough to comment, then why did you?

[bennywhale]

26. Mugabe is a power crazed and murderous dictator. The present

situation is in line with a long list of his crimes against humanity.

The markets and homes he is bulldozing and the areas in which his thugs are murdering are the areas which voted in large numbers for the opposition democratic party.

Mugabe seems to use his farcical elections to highlight who is against him, then oppress them.

He is a criminal who should be brought before the ICC in The Hague.

[mom cat]

27. self delete

[K-W]

54. God forbid we insult Americans.

As if such a thing actually exists.

[geek tragedy]

57. What does that mean?

The poster was clearly referring to people from the US, and "Americans" is the predominant term used for people from the US--including foreign languages.

Group-based insults based on nationality are nothing more than bigotry.

[slackmaster]

29. Nice Straw Man you have constructed there, FlemingsGhost

I'm sure the crows are terrified.

[FlemingsGhost]

30. No Crows; just us chickens.

Cock-a-doodle-DU

[slackmaster]

31. One has to wonder just who you think you are arguing with

You aren't making a lot of sense.

[Judi Lynn]

24. This paragraph didn't seem similar to the rest of the piece:

The destruction of city plots is a painful reminder of one of the most hated policies of the white government that ruled before independence in 1980 - the random slashing of crops on roadsides and railroad embankments.
(snip)

I wonder if this paper in South Africa is, in any way, determined to bend the truth of the matter, and joins with American corporate media in feeding twisted, and misleading information to people far away who can't be there to check it out for themselves.

"About IOL:"



Howard Plaatjes
Managing Director

Howard Plaatjes ticked and bashed his way out of auditing articles to 14 years of intensive financial and general management work in the listed newspaper and retail financial services sectors. He embraces the IOL challenge as the convergence of his knowledge.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Leon Lategan
Sales and Marketing Director

Leon's 12 years of general and sales management experience stand him in good stead to manage the IOL sales and marketing portfolio which encompasses strategic advertising opportunities for clients. Determined and aggressive, Leon relishes the challenges of this new medium and his objectives are to maintain IOL as South Africa's leading news portal, build its other traditional channels - Motoring, Property, Careers and Travel - and to maximise return on investment for IOL's affiliates and clients.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Karen van Eck
Management Accountant

It figures why Karen occupies the money management position. Karen brings to IOL a wealth of experience from the wide-ranging field of financial management in areas such as media, publishing, leisure and travel. "Striving for excellence" is the hallmark of this workaholic. Karen's quiet demeanour belies her tenacity and forthright attitude the job demands of her.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Rhys Johnstone
Content Manager

Rhys found his way into newspapers from the music industry in the 90s, joining IOL in 2000. A fervent believer that "content is king", Rhys is excited by the immediacy and potential of the online medium. "The industry has been through the hard times of the dot bomb years and is now showing strong growth. Readers are beginning to see real value in online content, which is good news for us."

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=26&click_id=2227

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Odd that we in the States didn't hear anything about the plight of the same people during the earlier, settler-controlled government.

Regarding South Africa, don't I remember hearing that Dick Cheney and our entire right-wing smiled lovingly upon that apartheid nightmare?

For those wondering when the dictator-humpers would arrive, just wetting yourselves in anticipation, you may have to find a new hobby.I don't think you've ever made a convert here.

The United States does NOT have the right to go thump people they simply don't like. That's why diplomacy was created. Greedy cowards would rather send a bunch of currently physically capable and healthy young men over to kill and grab for them, but that will NEVER be the right way to do it.

The mark of a civilized person is his ability to learn language skills, to learn emotional self-control, and to turn away from violence. That's on a personal level.

Why should it be any different for countries?

[mom cat]

28. Thank you for shining light on the source of this story. Do you know

of any more reliable sources for what is going on in Zimbabwe?

[Eugene]

34. Like this from the Guardian?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5089554,00.html

Zimbabwe Government Extend Crackdown

Associated Press Writer

HARARE, Zimbabwe (AP) - Police have begun destroying vegetable gardens
planted by Zimbabwe's urban poor, extending a demolition campaign that
initially targeted shacks and street vendor kiosks.

Senior assistant police commissioner Edmore Veterai said urban farming
on vacant plots of land was causing "massive environmental damage,"
state radio reported Tuesday.

The crackdown - at a time of food shortages in Zimbabwe - is the
latest escalation in the government's monthlong Operation
Murambatsvina, or Drive Out Trash, which has seen police torch
the shacks of poor city dwellers, arrest street vendors and
demolish their kiosks.

President Robert Mugabe was quoted Tuesday as saying concern about the
campaign was misplaced and agreeing to allow in a U.N. observer.

SNIP

[mom cat]

40. The article you cite is almost word for word identical with the one in the

main post.

[geek tragedy]

41. That's because there is wide, wide, wide consensus that Mugabe

is a thug.

[mom cat]

43. I am not arguing about Mugabe. I asked to find another source for

the story... All you gave me was the same story in a different paper. Word for word, with a few different paragraphs.

[meganmonkey]

44. It's an AP story, FWIW

See my post #35 below for an explanation of how I came to the source - through another thread. I should have looked for another link - my bad. It shouldn't invalidate the story itself, though - they didn't write it.

on edit: It was the thread about the little girl being rescued from lions that had the link to this site

[mom cat]

45. I saw it also as a link from the lion story. Great minds and all of that!

I am just wary of stories that portray leaders who are people of color as monsters. They might very well be. If the stories are true, then it is indeed appalling. I have heard similar stories about Chavez, Castro and the ousted president of Haiti, Aristide. I want to be very careful about accepting such claims, especially when the US uses the "bad man" card to oust regimes to procure resources. I'm just leary.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

48. Sources

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0622/p06s01-woaf.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1663814,00.html

[mom cat]

60. Thank you for these other sources..They are profoundly disturbing.

[geek tragedy]

56. I didn't give you anything.

;)

[Tomee450]

46. I don't trust a thing written

in the British newspapers about their former colony. The British government is very angry at Mugabe for forcing white farmers of the land they had stolen or bought illegally. The white farmers owned most of the best land and did not want to give it up. The British and other newspapers sympathetic to the farmers write nothing but negative reports about Mugabe. They might be right but I'd like information from more reliable sources.

[meganmonkey]

47. This is an AP story from a AP journalist

who is based in Zimbabwe - I googled him and he writes a lot about Zimbabwe for the AP.

If you check Google News search, this article is in everything from San Diego to Ann Arbor to Alabama papers - and that is just the first page of the search....

http://news.google.com/news?q=MICHAEL+HARTNACK&hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

49. Then pick a source that suits you...

http://news.google.co.uk/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&ncl=http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/Zimbabwe/0,,2-11-1662_1724714,00.html

[Judi Lynn]

32. Looking at the bottom of the page of the "Independent"

which is one of the IOL publications, you'll see this provocative statement:

Reliance on the information this site contains is at your own risk.

http://www.tios.co.za/

I've never seen that on any publication. It's a first.

[meganmonkey]

35. That is wierd !

I didn't even check the source when I posted this thread...I linked to a different article there from another thread and this headline caught my eye.

But this story, at least, looks like it comes from AP, FWIW.

[mom cat]

37. bet you never see that on Fucks News!

[Miss Chybil]

36. I don't see why everybody's getting so upset by this.

They've got to move the "trash," otherwise where are they going to build the Wal-Mart?

[Judi Lynn]

50. From another paper...............

The Herald is reliably informed that the President told Mr Annan he was surprised that the UN boss was only concerned about the Zimbabwean situation when similar operations were being held in the United Kingdom, South Africa and Kenya.
(snip)

http://allafrica.com/stories/200506210492.html

Anyone who isn't tied up through the night might want to see if this is a collossal lie, or if there actually ARE "similar operations" "being held in the United Kingdom, South Africa and Kenya."

It would be odd to dismiss this info. just because you've not heard about these operations already. We haven't heard about anything important whatsoever due to the filtering corporate news goes through.