Rice Links Syria to Lebanon Assassination

[sabra]

<<SNIP>>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5088802,00.html

Rice Links Syria to Lebanon Assassination

Tuesday June 21, 2005 4:46 PM


AP Photo XHJ106

By ANNE GEARAN

AP Diplomatic Writer

BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice linked the assassination Tuesday of an anti-Syrian politician in Lebanon with the continued activities of longtime overlord Syria, but said she cannot be certain who is behind the killing.

``I do not know who was responsible for this and I don't want to say that I know who was responsible, because I don't,'' Rice said. ``But there is a context and an atmosphere of instability. Syria's activities are a part of that context and that atmosphere and they need to knock it off.''

Former Lebanese Communist Party leader George Hawi was killed instantly when his car blew up in Beirut. It was the second killing of an anti-Syrian figure this month, and closely followed elections won by an anti-Syrian slate.

Rice said there is ``uncertainty about Syrian activities in Lebanon,'' despite Syrian claims that it pulled the last of its troops and intelligence forces out of the country in April.

<</SNIP>>

[denverbill]

1. Yes, us and our allies certainly wouldn't stand to gain.

After all, we LOVE Communists. We would never kill someone we didn't like anyway to try to arouse anger against someone we accuse of committing the crime.

That would be terrorism.

[maddezmom]

2. Rice Links Syria to Lebanon Assassination

BRUSSELS, Belgium - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice linked the assassination Tuesday of an anti-Syrian politician in Lebanon with the continued activities of longtime overlord Syria, but said she cannot be certain who is behind the killing.

"I do not know who was responsible for this and I don't want to say that I know who was responsible, because I don't," Rice said. "But there is a context and an atmosphere of instability. Syria's activities are a part of that context and that atmosphere and they need to knock it off."

Former Lebanese Communist Party leader George Hawi was killed instantly when his car blew up in Beirut. It was the second killing of an anti-Syrian figure this month, and closely followed elections won by an anti-Syrian slate.

Rice said there is "uncertainty about Syrian activities in Lebanon," despite Syrian claims that it pulled the last of its troops and intelligence forces out of the country in April.

~snip~
more:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050621/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_lebanon;_

[getmeouttahere]

3. Great, Sherlock....

and I'm sure you'll be as successful at figuring out who did it as you are at finding Osama!

[dave29]

4. Guilty until proven

non-Syrian

[Scurrilous]

5. "Hey you Syrians...

...knock it off!"

Yeah...that'll work. :thumbsup:

[Lochloosa]

12. beat me to it..

"knock it off"...and that's diplomacy....

[lovuian]

6. Oh and We believe you Rice!!! Setting things up for War with

Syria its coming!!!

[Carla in Ca]

21. It seems that where ever she goes

she insults and threatens. Is she purposely trying to offend everyone, including us as our spokesperson? Man, *ush has made a real cowboy out of her.

[saigon68]

32. This Pig is getting ready to put Freedom on the March

"Freedom on the March"




By the Devil.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

7. Why oh why...

have I thought from the beginning that this whole thing has been a US Black Ops as part of the Bush Gang's Syria campaign??

Someone pass the foil -- shiny side up, please....

[Judi Lynn]

23. It was a two-fer.Knock off a commie, blame it on Syria.

What could be more enjoyable for a right-wing dirtbag with too much time on his hands?

On edit: I just saw Denver Bill already mentioned this in post #1. You've got company in this speculation!

[ElectroPrincess]

16. Rate it Down! :P

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050621/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_lebanon

[Kenergy]

31. Rice Links Syria to Lebanon Assassination

Too bad she couldn't link the August 6th PDB to 9/11.

<sarcasm off>

[Whoa_Nelly]

8. If you didn't think Rice was as dangerous as Karl Rove before...

then that thought should be reviewed and recategorized. Rice now more globally political power than ever. She will do the dirty work to stir up more hatred of the US in the Middle East that will lead to more US "intervention" on behalf of autocracy under the guise of democracy.

[Oversea Visitor]

9. Me dont trust

Bunney teeth Rice
Stupid Lice caught with lie x(
Not so nice
That bunny teeth rice x(

World dont like you rice
cause you lied
You not going to rise
When chimp say bye bye x(

[daleo]

10. Rice is part of the context, and she should knock it off

Her not so subliminal message:

"I... want to say that I know who was responsible...,'' Rice said. "...Syria..."

This is standard Bush propaganda - put all the key words into one sentence, and let the listeners subconscious tendency to verbal association take care of the rest.

[Tempest]

11. Kindasleazy knows nothing of the Middle East

There's three Lebanese groups fighting for control of the country right now and the assassination very easily could have been done by either of the two anti-communist groups.

It is highly doubtful Syria had anything to do with the assassination.

The last thing Syria wants to do is put themselves under further scrutiny.

[Algomas]

13. Mossad..

OMG, I've said it! I have implied that Israel is responsible for these assassinations. I will wait here for the lightening to strike.

[Behind the Aegis]

15. Responsibility

How is your baseless accusations any different from Rice's? You have proof, or is it just....?

[Algomas]

17. Baseless accusations?

FYI, since you must be new to the planet, Israel has engaged in acts of terror like this for years. Why am I out of line for suggesting they had a hand in this?
Are you going to call me an anti Semite?
Oooh, I can feel the lightning coming down. Just to get your Zionist tailfeathers in a tangle let me just say: Fuck Bush and fuck Israel too.

[Behind the Aegis]

18. Baseless on your part.

CIA, MI5, KGB, and a number of other groups have also done the same things. It well may have been Mossad, but considering the candidate was anti-Syrian occupation, I find it had to believe they would want to take out someone who wants the same as them.

I didn't say your suggestion was "out of line," I said it was as baseless as Rice's comments. Neither of you have any proof one way or the other, but rather just run around pointing fingers at your 'enemy.'

On edit: Is your calling me a Zioinst meant as an insult? Because I sure don't think it is.

[Algomas]

19. Reality based opinion..

This is a forum in which we can state our opinions, yes? It is my opinion that Israel has much to gain by keeping Lebanon destabilized. Seeing as how they are neighbors with Lebanon, I think it is reasonable to suspect their involvement.
Of course it is true that bad things are done by all State security organizations but the Mossad seems to be especially evil. Sorry for the Zionist remark but I am sick of supporting the state of Israel and their apartheid system. Not to mention their skillful manipulation of US foreign policy. It is laughable to me that any criticism of Israel results in charges of anti-semitism. In the interests of national self preservation, it is time that we cut them loose.
Like I said: Fuck Israel

[Behind the Aegis]

20. Opinions abound

This is a forum of opinions. You expressed yours and I, mine.

"It is my opinion that Syria has much to gain by keeping Lebanon destabilized. Seeing as how they are neighbors with Lebanon, I think it is reasonable to suspect their involvement." In your statement you feel it is Israel, I feel more like it is Syria. But, both are nothing more than opinions.

You also feel Israel manipulates US foreign policy. I don't deny they have influence, but no where near the level of those who are oil barons, both foreign and domestic. And, as for the Mossad being "especially evil," I would say no more than some of the shit this very country has pulled in the name of democracy or defense.

What I think is "laughable" is that some feel anti-Semitism is not a real issue, especially on the left. I don't see as many people screaming "anti-Semitism" about comments concerning Israel, as I see people complaining they are being targeted because they complain about Israel. I complain about Israeli policy all the time and I have never been charged with anti-Semitism. I argue with people who are very anti-Israeli, but I don't see them as anti-Semitic. However, there is a very fine line, and some don't know when they cross it, and others, I am sure they know, but just don't care because they will scream they are being "falsely accused of bigotry."

I look at it this way. A gay person is murdered. It is important to know: was he murdered because he was gay OR was he murdered and happened to be gay? Some would say it doesn't matter, it was murder. But, to many gay people, it does matter. Because one scenario has gays as a target, and that can be used as a form of bigotry and terror. The other scenario is a target of humans in general, with the person's sexual orientation being a side issue, like having blonde hair.

So, what the Hell does this have to do with anti-Semitism? As a Jew, it is important to know whether Israeli critics are criticizing the country and its policies (politicians) or its people (or existence). The former is no different than criticizing any country. The latter is a form of bigotry that attacks the very souls of a group of people. That bigotry is called "anti-Semitism" and it is very real and has very strong and deadly roots in world history. Therefore, Jews are very vigilant. That said, sometimes mistakes are made, but better to have to say "sorry for calling you a bigot," than taking a slow train ride to a "work camp."

On edit: There really was no reason for the apology about the Zionist remark. I am one. But my tailfeathers had just been preened, so they weren't out of order! :)

[Algomas]

24. This is a good exchange..

I appreciate you taking the time to articulate your position. Here is the big question: Given the history the Jews have suffered, why do they visit such atrocity upon the Palestinians? One would think their heightened sensitivity to racism would preclude racist behavior. Israel has basically imprisoned the Palestinians in their miserable cantons. It is revolting to see such repression in a so called civilized country. US and Israeli policies have turned the Middle East into a time bomb. It's a perfect storm of greed and fear.
How can humane people defuse this monster peacefully??

[Colorado Blue]

25. May I give this a try?

First, I thought BTA's response to you was thoughtful and well-reasoned.

As to your questions concerning the Palestinians, this didn't happen overnight and it hasn't happened in a vacuum. Nor are the Palestinians, or more appropriately, the terrorist groups who live within them, innocent. Just yesterday, a young woman was sent to blow herself up in a hospital in Israel, where she'd been receiving free treatment for burns.

Fortunately, she was intercepted at a crossing and the bomb diffused before she could hurt herself and the innocent people at the hospital. One of the people who contributes regularly to DU was across the street at the time. He might well have been blown to smithereens along with the patients, the doctors, visitors, and the unfortunate young female bomber.

I'm attaching some links about Israel and the Arab-Israeli struggle. They're just scraping the surface but they'll help. I'm also attaching a link to the Israeli paper Ha'aretz, which also has unmoderated online discussion forums which you can read.

The ethical questions concerning the Palestinian people and the future of the region, as well as endless scourings of past events, are always at the forefront of thought among Diaspora Jews and Israelis alike. They're frequently the subject of articles and discussion forums in the Israeli papers, and debate is constant, open and frequently bitter.

Despair is not an unusual emotion, because the desire for peace is very great but we are baffled as to how to stop the violence when, every time peace appears to be raising its head, armed groups seem determined to continue attacking. And how can the innocent civilian Arab populations go on with their lives when armed gangs operate in their midst?

It is important to recognize that the violence here is the result of decades of terror and war, and that the endless attempts to murder Israeli civilians have resulted in the checkpoints, the fence, the humiliations of ordinary Palestinian people. The IDF interdicts far more terrorists than the ones you hear about, and far, far more than actually succeed in their lethal missions. Were they less agressive, how many more might succeed? Even their tactics, effective as they are, are neither perfect nor free of endless scrutiny - from within Israel as well as from human rights groups looking on.

Nobody, however, seems to be monitoring the terrorists, or the repressive governments in the region.

Also, it is important to respect the fact that the Palestinian charter explicitly calls for the destruction of Israel, and that P.A. leadership seems unable to cope with the ongoing violence which has continued even during the ceasefire.

And, the war is actually between Israel and all 22 Arab states, not just the Palestinians, who've been caught in a web, kept by the ARAB states in cages for all these decades, their people unaccepted by local populations.

Statehood offers and offers of reparation have been declined by Palestinian leadership. They could have formed a Palestinian state in 1948, and subsequently, but elected to go to war instead. The land occupied during the war of 1967 was, under UN 242, to have been exchanged for peace. There is no peace. Only Jordan and Egypt have signed separate treaties with Israel and repeated attempts to make treaties with other Arab states have been refused. Even so, the Israelis are TRYING to disengage, withdraw from settlements and turn political responsibility over to the PA.

But how can they do that in the face of constant violence? Now, al Qaeda has gotten into the act, exhorting the terror groups to resume violence. Apparently, Islamic Jihad already has. People are dying over here, Israelis too, and recently 3 Palestinian workers in an Israeli greenhouse died when a rocket slammed into the building where they were tending their plants.

I hope this helps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Israeli_conflict

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/590189.html

http://www.haaretz.com/

[Behind the Aegis]

27. A big question? try HUGE!

I will give it a whirl. I know that Colorado Blue has given her opinion and lots of information. I will have more opinion and assertion based on readings, my own history, and my counseling skills. But, this is coming from just me. I cannot speak for all Jews, of course. Not that I think you are asking me too.

The big question: "Given the history the Jews have suffered, why do they visit such atrocity upon the Palestinians?" I have heard one school of thought that it is a case of "the abused becoming the abuser." However, I don't think it is that and I feel that assertion is short-sighted. It is not as simple as, "I was beat as a child, it is all I know." I feel it is more of a "panic defense." What I mean by this is, "if I hit you first, maybe you won't hit me." As a gay person, the idea of a "panic defense" is very chilling to me. However, in the psychology of a person or a nation, in this case, there may be a real or imagined fear of reprisal or destruction. Israel was born out of the horrors of the Holocaust where half of the world's population of Jews were eradicated. Many Jews in other countries were thrown out of their native lands, and still others were not allowed refuge in many places, even though governments knew what was happening in Europe. The Jewish psyche was ravaged by the Holocaust and the blatant disregard for our people. So, out of guilt, possibly, a new Jewish homeland was created. Now, we could 'round and round' about how appropriate or inappropriate it was, but we can discuss that another day...one big question is enough for me. :)

A new Jewish homeland was created and, within days, 5 armies violated her borders in an attempt to destroy the fledgling nation. This was in 1948, just a few years after the horrors of the Holocaust, mass expulsions, and refugee problems. So, I ask you to do a little pretending with me...you have been wrongly imprisoned for years; you find out that members of your family lost their homes because of the same reasons you were wrongly sent to prison, some were denied housing because they were related to you (and possibly your "crimes"). After your release, in a mea culpa, the state, gives you and your family a tract of land, and you all move into a 'compound' of sorts and create your own homes. Within days of establishing yourselves, people from the neighboring land tracts start harassing you, attempt to take your homes, and terrorize your family. How do you react? Of course, this is an oversimplification, but perhaps it may help. There are other issues to consider, but let's say those are the basics from a Jewish perspective.

I know this verbose piece is not the best explanation, but it gives another view. The pathology of racism is not easy to understand other than it is based almost solely in fear, and no community/person is immune from it.

As for the assertion that "US and Israeli policies have turned the Middle East into a time bomb," I will say it does not lay at their feet alone. Israel is in a sea of hostility. Of all her neighbors, only 2 of the 5 surrounding nations have peace agreements with her and recognize her as a political body; and those 2 countries only did so some 30 years after her birth and several wars! Israel is the only nation in the UN who does not belong to its region (Asia) because the Arab/Muslim nations will not allow her to become a member. Can you see how this might make a nation a little ill-at-ease?

Finally, "How can humane people defuse this monster peacefully??" Therein lies the real question. I would say the first thing is to realize that Israel is not the only one in the situation. We cannot make demands of her, then in the same breath excuse suicide bombings as "its the only way Palestinians can protest." Demonizing either side also doesn't help. As we demand Israel to make concessions, the same needs to be done of the Palestinians. We must also recognize that both sides have participants that don't want peace, as they only know hate.

If my long-winded response has left you with more questions, PM me, because continued discussion here will get this thread banished to the I/P forum.

On edit: Spell check rocks...when are we getting grammar and comma checks?!

[rustydog]

14. If her source on this also told her about the threat of a mushroom cloud

you can pretty well guess how trustworthy that is.

This Administration is so without integrity in ANYTHING they say. Since their reasons for invading Iraq has turned out to be proven a pack of lies,how can we or the world for that matter ever believe anything they say again?

[ConfuZed]

22. Oh Dr. Rice why are you doing this to yourself?

I have great repect for your acomplishments as an african american woman please don't be a pawn and scapegoat for Bush's coke fueled agenda.

[Colorado Blue]

26. The Lebanese point of view:

Five Syrians arrested in aftermath of anti-Damascus politician's murder

By Leila Hatoum and Nada Bakri
Daily Star staff
Wednesday, June 22, 2005

BEIRUT: Internal Security Forces arrested five Syrian nationals shortly after the murder of anti-Syrian politician George Hawi in a car bomb. Witnesses close to the blast site said the men were hiding on the roof of a nearby building.

The former secretary general of the Lebanese Communist Party was assassinated by a bomb planted under the passenger seat of his car.

The assassination is the second this month after journalist Samir Kassir was murdered in a similar car bombing on June 2. The attack comes at a critical time for Lebanon, which recently saw the end of heated parliamentary elections, and while the country is being managed by an outgoing caretaker Cabinet. Hawi's car had already been put in gear when the explosion occurred. Accordingly, some security sources said the reportedly 400-gram bomb was triggered by a remote control. Hawi's driver, Thabet Bazzi, was rushed to hospital, suffering from shock, concussion and minor injuries.

Opposition figures were quick to blame Syrian agents and their allies in the Lebanese security services for yesterday's crime, as they did after the assassination of Kassir and slain former Premier Rafik Hariri in February.

Hawi's stepson, Rafi Madoyan, blamed "the security system which is in power," warning everybody in the opposition was a potential target.

He said: "The security agencies continue to kill the democrats and are trying to assassinate democracy in Lebanon and the independence uprising. It is not just George Hawi, there are many others on the hit list."

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=1&article_id=16136

***

[eissa]

28. Oh, please

At this point I think Emile Lahoud could fart and the Syrians would be blamed for it. BTW, since when have we ever been concerned with Arabs -- especially communist ones -- being killed? Sorry, blaming the Syrians is way too convenient for me.

[Colorado Blue]

29. Believe it or not, a lot of us are concerned with people being

hurt or killed, regardless of their nationality or religion.

Especially those of us who were born into this situation, or are close to people who live there. One of my best friends was born and raised there. Her father is Lebanese.

Lebanon is trying so hard to form a true democracy, these killings are frightening. There have been several attacks on Christian neighborhoods over the past few months, and of course the assassinations.

Anybody who lived through the Lebanese Civil War wants nothing like this ever to happen again. It was a horror. And it took decades to get the Syrian army to leave. Still, there remain armed groups sympathetic to them, who refuse to disarm, though the UN has requested it, and who could become extremely dangerous.

[eissa]

34. I share your concerns

Believe me, I do. In addition to having family in Syria and Iraq, we have some Lebanon too! Yeah, it's been a hell of a year! I completely support Syria's withdrawal -- it was long overdue. I also shudder to think that the country could once again fall into another civil war after being successfully rebuilt. However, I am so completely cynical of this administration that I find these recent assassinations and the attempts to blame them all on Syria as rather questionable.

[Gyre]

30. Bashir might even have some WMDs in his closet!

Better bomb him before he uses them on us!!! Of course, Syria's gonna get hit. We have a long and undistinguished track record of attacking the helpless and demonizing them before and after. The chickenshit Corporate Media, of course, is more than willing to shill for the chimp regardless of any evidence. So who needs that crap?

You think Condi Rice is going to hell? Just wait to you hear the shit that comes out of Bolton when he becomes our delegate to the UN. Their audacity is breathtaking, as is the media's willingness to take it up the ass. Just relax you all. Remember that Satan rules on earth with brief periods of awareness in between.

Gyre

[oasis]

33. Clueless Condi finally admits she "doesn't know". That never stopped her

from talking a bunch of nonsense out of her narrow ass.