New (Left Wing) Christian Group Being Formed; Dem's Raise $22.6 Million

[NNN0LHI]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBZVDZU8AE.html

POLITICAL NOTEBOOK: Democrats Raise $22.6 Million So Far This Year; New Christian Group Being Formed

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Democratic National Committee has raised $22.6 million this year through fundraisers, direct mail and online, but still trails the national GOP by a 2-1 margin, Democrats said Tuesday. snip

A new group of Christian activists is being formed - but this organization is coming from the political left.

The Christian Alliance for Progress is being formed to counter the influence of conservative groups like the Christian Coalition. The group was formally announcing its plans Wednesday in Washington and Jacksonville, Fla.

"The religious right has been extremely successful at taking control of the language of our faith and using it to promote an extreme and divisive political agenda," said Rev. Timothy Simpson, director of religion affairs for the Christian Alliance and a pastor at the Presbyterian Church USA. "We think that most Americans, especially people of faith, are ready to hear from Americans who are tolerant."

[BattyDem]

1. You know, I'm very happy that the left wing activists ...

are finally getting organized ... I just wish they did it at least 5-10 years ago. :-(

Why does our side always have to wait until we hit rock bottom before we start fighting back? I'm not saying there haven't been any fighters on our side, but the RW bullshit has been going on for years - why did it take so long for the majority of lefties to recognize the problem? :shrug:

[Spangle]

3. Church and State issue

The left felt that religan should play NO role in politics. No role in government. We missed the idea of how it controls public opinion, etc.

We are kinda hard headed in that aspect.

[BattyDem]

4. You're right

Liberals are tolerant, reasonable and have a healthy respect for the Constitution. Unfortunately, that sometimes works against us. :-(

[KittyWampus]

32. Also, A LOT Of Liberals Dislike Anything To Do With Religion & Attack

those of us who DO want to talk about values etc.

Witness the threads on DU.

Read post #8 and see how many agree.

There's a large segment of "liberal" posters who actively dislike any mention of the word values or any approach to issues that involve a spiritual outlook.

[BattyDem]

35. That's true ... it's an issue we want to eliminate from politics ...

yet the Repugs keep inserting it into the argument. :-(

[QC]

9. Exactly--see post #8 for an excellent example of why we missed the boat.

[thegreatwildebeest]

11. I would hesitate...

...to call the typical Democrat a "left wing" activist, or in fact just about any Democrat "left wing". Left, or leftist, by tradition almost always implies a rejection of capitalism, with a substitution of either communism, socialism, syndicalism, or anarchism (and beyond that fold are the post-left anarchist strains such as primitivism, insurrectionary anarchy, and general post left).

[rman]

13. The Left is not about "substituting" capitalism for socialism -

It's not a black-and-white issue.

According to RW-ers, a thing such as Social Security is Socialist simply because it is tax-funded and state-managed. And they are correct, it's just that contrary to what they would have us believe, there's really nothing wrong with a bit of socialism.

Most dems do support SS as it is, opposing a privitized/stock-market based SS.
At the same time they support private enterprise. Dems do not reject capitalism as such, they just want a regulated capitalism as opposed to unregulated as repubs would want it.

[ninkasi]

34. The repubs who oppose SS as being Socialist

certainly have no objections to using tax dollars to fund private enterprise. Isn't there a large amount of tax money given to some former Enron execs for the purposes of extracting oil from shale? I don't have the link, sorry, but remember reading an article about it.

This venture will be paid for by the public, and the profits will only enrich Bush's cronies. It's not that they object to using tax money, it's just how they want it used. It seems to me that this would violate the principle of the unfettered capitalism they seem to prefer. Using tax payer's money to profit the already rich is obscene.

I believe that any healthy society has a moral obligation to help the ones who need it most. Otherwise, the society becomes brutal, barbaric, and unworkable.

I'm so glad that liberal Christians, who realize that people who believe in following Christ's teachings, will encourage the message that his words are about love, compassion, feeding the hungry, caring for the sick and elderly, and protecting the helpless.

Many other religions also preach compassion and caring, and they, too are sick of the current administration's greed and war mongering. It's just time now for all of us, regardless of which religion, or no religion, we choose to follow, realize that in matters of faith, it's the right of each of us to practice in our own way, but to keep it out of politics.

Thomas Jefferson, contrary to what the right wing nutcases think, did advocate separation of church and state, and our founding fathers were all too aware of the dangers of merging the two.
The shrill voices of fundies, who might claim to worship God, but act as though they were following Satan's game plan, have had their voices heard long enough.

I found one of the articles I remembered, from a discussion here at DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3824748

Edited to add link

[silvermachine]

19. Easy there beestie...

...I'm not sure there really is anything that one can point to as being a "typical" Democrat. We cover a lot of ground here, as the lively discussions should point out. I must mention though, that if there was such a beast, er I mean beest, as a "typical" Democrat, I hardly think they'd be basically calling someone who is "left wing" or a "leftist" a Communist. Sounds more like something coming from a "typical" Freeper. Not that I'm saying you are one....

Edit for sp.

[thegreatwildebeest]

39. I don't think the term leftist...

I don't think the term leftist is a pejorative, nor is rejecting capitalism a bad thing. When I argue the term leftist cannot be applied to a Democrat (and I have not yet met a Democrat who rejects capitalism) its because the term left and leftist is a rejection of capitalism. When Freepers and others red bait by calling Democrats or liberals "leftists" they are misusing the word, and showing how little they actually know of either political schools of thought or a dictionary.

Someone who IS a leftist or "left wing" IS a communist/socialist/anarchist/syndicalist etc. These are all alternatives to capitalism. Again, I don't use these labels in a pejorative sense. Some people may find being labelled an anarchist as an insult, but I don't (and thats because I am one).

My ire is raised by the use of "left" or "left wing" though when people who believe in capitalism call themselves as much. They aren't "leftists". They are liberals, which also by defintion is a centrist political philosophy. This might seem a issue of semantics but I think its a necessary one to avoid confusion of more radical ideas and movements with more centrist and moderate ones.

[mahina]

12. Who is this "they " you speak of?

Reminds me of Pogo...we have met the enemy, and he is us.

"they" is us baby, we're getting there though~

[rman]

14. same "they" mentioned in the OP;

left-wing christian organizations now allied in The Christian Alliance for Progress.

[kimchi]

2. Hallelujah!

The Lord and Lady have heard our prayers! :P

'Bout time.

[Rainscents]

5. AMEN!!! We need all the we can get!

[goclark]

18. OKwith me if they can get the loony "right"Christians to back off

[marbuc]

29. Forcing the loony right to back off is a tall order

I wish them much luck.

[Initech]

6. Hey maybe this is a group that Jesus would approve of!

I certainly dont think that the Christian Coalition or the Family Values Assholes is what he had in mind.

[Freedomfried]

7. Will they all have long hair, beards, robes and sandals?

Forgive me but I don't think I'd have to join a religion to get the government to count my vote.

will this be another bible-thumping group to have to chase out of the government at a later date?

me thinks so, keep the preachers out of politics and keep the politicians out of religion.

Trust is nice, control is best.

[jwirr]

10. I have said this before but it bears repeating.

You want those of us who are Christians and Democrats to keep silent. Then you have ceded the field to the right wing because we are the only ones they are even likely to listen to. As a liberal Christian I know the difference between church and state and respect the status. We liberal Christians were here long before the right wingers and we did not take over the government nor did we expect the secular world to live by our rules. The difference between right wing Christians and liberal/progressive Christians is that the latter apply the rules of Christianity to our own actions. The right wing apply the rules to everyone BUT themselves.

[rman]

15. What makes you think they want you to join a relligion,

to get the government to count your vote?

It's interesting that you accuse a LW religious groups of exactly those things their RW counterparts do.

And when was the last time a RW bible-thumping group was chased out of government? And who chased them out?

[JerseygirlCT]

21. Nope, you certainly don't have to

and I cannot imagine any such religious group bible-thumping. You're far more likely to find them at the local soup kitchen, working.

And they generally have a very healthy respect for the separation of church and state. I think what we're seeing is an awakening of the religious left to the shambles that the right has made of how Christianity is practiced and understood. There's been a coup, and I sense a beginning of the fight back.

You shouldn't have a thing to fear from this kind of group -- they're our allies.

[JerseygirlCT]

26. From their web-site:

We also reaffirm a well-established American commitment to a clear separation of church and state. In your statements you often characterize America as a "Christian nation". We strongly disagree. As a nation of immigrants, America has been a land of freedom and diversity. Separation of church and state helps ensure liberty and justice for all Americans - not just those who are like-minded. Hear these words:

"The church must be reminded that it is not the master or the servant of the state, but rather the conscience of the state."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr.

[Voltaire99]

8. Less religion in politics--not more--is what America needs.

I'm all for religious freedom, defined broadly enough to include my freedom from religion. But I'm also for intellectual honesty, so it's only fair I say to leftwing Christians what I say to the right wing variety:

You can't be trusted. That's what the framers thought, and so think I.

The problem of rising theocratic meddling in politics won't be helped by adding more hosannas to the mix. Not even if yours happen to fall on the correct side of the issues. Religious political activism leads us away from secular government, and inevitably toward Talibanism (or Sharonism).

The history of religious involvement in US politics is disastrous. It's true certain Christians are very useful at pushing for reform (cf. abolitionists, or the civil rights movement) but others are terribly harmful: religion also smiled upon the slave trade, pitted sects against each other during the nation's history, and brought the whiff of gunpowder to abortion clinics. Religion has been an essential prop to bloody US imperialism (although its braver advocates--from the Quakers to MLK Jr.--have worked against war).

If you need to use faith to inform your advocacy of, say, abortion rights, so be it. To any rational analysis, however, that question is answered by study of secular and constitutional history--not of the Bible. And our only hope as a republic lies in that remaining so.

[zanne]

16. Voltaire99---Thank you, thank you, thank you!

For so eloquently stating what I cannot put into words. Sometimes I think that language is more than half the battle. Please keep posting about separation of Church and State. There is a temptation to try to "own" the argument by joining in the insanity.

[peacetalksforall]

17. Voltaire...you are right on. The government should be as 'vanilla'

and secular as possible.

I am deeply disturbed that this new organization has to be Christian. If Dems MUST organize around religion, why not universally - reflective of the Dem Party? Secular is preferable to anything religious.

[wryter2000]

23. self-delete

never mind :)

[JerseygirlCT]

24. I don't necessarily agree with you

but beyond that, this won't happen. We are a very religious country. A huge majority of Americans claim some faith, and it will of necessity inform their lives and their opinions. Disparaging that will not help our cause. And at least now, it's also futile.

Would the country have been better off without a Martin Luther King, Jr.?

Not every religious person wants to insinuate their religion into government or convert the masses. They do, however, often act based on their beliefs. I know this is hard -- some of those who claim to act on their beliefs are the people we fight against. But others are people Democrats have historically made common cause with. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[FlemingsGhost]

31. Damn straight! Great post. (n/t)

Flem.

[Megahurtz]

33. Excellent Point! n/t

[cascadiance]

20. I wonder if this is a trick actually copying Karl Rove more than the CC...

Perhaps by setting up a very visible left wing Christian organization, some folks are inviting the RWers to go after their religious tax breaks and other laws that keeps them from scrutiny that would normally be applied to religious organizations. If the wingnuts go after them in court for being political organizations and succeed in taking away their tax exempt status, etc. then lawyers will have an adjudicated case history to go after the Christian Coalition and other RW Christian organizations and nail them for similar political activity to help tear down their empire! If that's the hidden agenda of this organization, I can support that if it succeeds!

But as others indicate here, I do think that these advocacy groups shouldn't be advocating political policy based on religious beliefs. That line should be drawn. If not for the above Rovian trick I mention here, the real value of such an organization can be and should be more to bring together like-minded Christian folks together in their communities so that they can talk amongst each other and reinforce their political values in church settings on a one on one basis, which arguably the right wing has been successful with for these many years. Where we should draw the line is for left leaning Christian leaders not be advocating to a group in these settings things like "To be a real Christian, vote for (blah)". That would be wrong.

[Alpharetta]

22. Their website is missing something

http://www.christianalliance.org/site/c.bnKIIQNtEoG/b.592941/k.CB7C/Home.htm

I can't find bios of their leadership.

I wouldn't want a group to speak for me until I know how it's run, how the leaders are chosen, who they are, etc.

[JerseygirlCT]

25. Does this help?

http://www.christianalliance.org/site/c.bnKIIQNtEoG/b.845345/k.A094/Founding_Leaders.htm

[checks-n-balances]

28. Thanks - you posted this while I was busy writing my tome below...

I noticed that Rev. Dr. Simpson attended my alma mater seminary - what a small world!

These people are not wingnuts, folks! :)

[checks-n-balances]

27. Maybe 'cause it's a brand new website? I can vouch for Rev. Simpson

because I've read numerous letters he's written to some church forums online that I've read. He's sometimes one of the lone voices that consistently challenges right-wing "Christians," and I'm sure that he would be one to speak out AGAINST the co-mingling of church & state that the RW is so much in favor of. All I know is that he's very well-informed and sees through, very clearly, the RW BS that one hears among their "Christian" circles. He's very well-read and well-versed about religion and culture in this country and he would not be part of any new group like this unless it would be founded on honesty and integrity. Here are just a few lines from one LTTE he wrote - in response to a RW churchgoer - that I managed to find on the web:

Dear Editor:

I am writing in disagreement with XXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX's claim that "every argument made against this war has proven false." His letter, however, demonstrates that he has not listened to the objections, for he argues about points that no one disputes, in essence creating a straw man, rather than addressing the case in chief of the other side. That case is primarily theological and ethical in nature and has hardly been disproven, whatever military successes the US might be experiencing on the battlefield.

As it turns out, we were never in any danger. Even at this late hour, after having been bombed for three weeks and having its countryside overrun with invaders, Iraq has not used its chemical weapons. Hence the notion that somehow we were under an imminent threat which made war a "last resort" has been shown to be false. Of course, the CIA said this would happen last fall, that it was highly unlikely that Iraq would use these weapons unless absolutely backed in a corner (they have had them for twenty years) but the Bush administration ignored this analysis because it did not fit with its plan for a new world order...(snip)

I doubt that anyone on this thread could cite any left-of-center religious or Christian organization, founded within the past 20 years, that hasn't supported the separation of church & state. But anyone in doubt about this organization can find on their website a place to contact them and ask them directly! BTW, while I was browsing the website, I noticed this story. The writer makes a theological point OPPOSITE from the one that is implied in the the public policies espoused by Bushco & his RW "Christian" adherents:

When I was three my father died, leaving my mother to raise six boys and two girls all under the age of 17. One of my earliest memories was my mother applying for food stamps and Medicaid and being turned down because she was not "poor enough." Imagine telling a widow with eight children working two jobs that she is not poor enough to receive health care for her children! Fortunately we survived just fine.

Today, I feel blessed and fortunate that I can look back at those days and laugh. My brothers and I can tell stories without shame and to the utter embarrassment of my mom. But we do so with great laughter and joy, grateful for our health and for the unwavering spirit of a woman who did everything she could to provide and care for her children. And we do so with immense relief, knowing that by the time our youngest sister was diagnosed with Hodgkin's Disease, at the age of 14, our mother had finally secured limited health coverage through her new job at a local hospital. Jesus preached, "Blessed are the Poor", and he did so not to glorify poverty but to challenge a belief that everyone without money, good health, or good luck was cursed by God. May we all be blessed with good health. But more important, may we be blessed with the spirit of Jesus who calls us to be advocates for those who find themselves on the other side of luck.

It sounds like at least this organization - like Sojourners, for example - can serve as an alternate Christian voice in contrast to the louder, fundamentalist-based one that gets all the attention. IMHO, it's better to hear somebody who's familiar with the true theology and wisdom of Jesus countering these people than to hear the sound of crickets coming from the progressive side.

[seafan]

30. The new book "The Sins of Scripture" by Rev. John Spong

Exposing the Bible's Texts of Hate to Reveal the God of Love

Author: John Shelby Spong



I was listening to Mark and Mark on Morning Sedition on AAR this morning (6-22), and they were interviewing this author. He is an Episcopal bishop, if I remember correctly, and he was speaking about how certain texts in the Bible are seized upon by Christian extremist groups and are perverted into a mantra of hatred against women, homosexuals, the poor; to justify violence, murder, discrimination and oppression.

He describes these things in great detail in his book, and exposes how certain parts of the Bible's text are used to justify the subjugation of women, of homophobia, of environmental harm, of anti-Semitism, and other oppression.

He also discusses how we can overcome this misuse of these specific texts in the Bible, which, IMO, will be a major key to reversing the demonizing messages that extremist groups calling themselves Christian spread to many followers.




A sample of the texts Spong explores:
Genesis 2:18-23 She shall be called woman because she was taken out of man.
Leviticus 18:22 'You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.'
Proverbs 23:13, 14 'Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. If you beat him with a rod, you will save his life from Sheol'.



This is cross posted to the BOOKS forum so hopefully more will see it. Sounds like a great book to utilize in this new progressive Christian movement!



Here it is on Amazon if y'all are interested:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060762055/002-6220899-9275229?v=glance

[XemaSab]

37. Spong has some interesting ideas

My pastor loaned me a book of his.

:evilgrin:

[truthisfreedom]

36. take that, Jesus-hating Rethugs! Old Testament freakazoids! they pick and

choose their Biblical passages to justify their crazed loonieness.

[neuvocat]

38. I've just signed up on their website.

I guess its a long overdue (albeit unfortunate) sign of the times.

[Douglas Carpenter]

40. a fabulous idea--even if I am basically a secularist

People who are serious about building a democratic society should welcome with open arms allies who share in a common cause of peace and justice. Sometimes I wonder if secularist (and I do consider myself one) are not just as guilty of fundamentalistic thinking as fundamentalist Christians.

Here is for another progressive Christian group:

http://www.sojo.net

[I_Make_Mistakes]

41. Fear Not

The left wing Christians are followers of the Gospels (the teachings of Christ). We are taught to be humble in our worshiping (not wearing our faith on our sleeves, cars, etc. like the hypocrites). I can tell you that even my best friend, who I haven't talked to in over a year because of her right leaning (I blame it squarely on her Diocese, sp?, I'm not RC, because from other sites I learned they have spread misinformation that had to be corrected by the Vatican of all places) would not boldly and loudly exert her beliefs.

We understand the Give to Caesar..., and I think the need for government to be free from religious influence. Hell, I know I do. What this RW government is doing is blasphemy in my mind. They say that all social programs should be done through Churches, well, where was Jesus's church?

The reason the Left needs to organize, is to instruct the mis-informed who are being manipulated by the UnChristian Right, that they are being played the FOOL. In the Bible a FOOL is a really big insult.

We as Christians are also taught to be slow to anger. Ok, let's look at the outrage in the RW. Are they slow to anger?

Are they bearing false witness against their neighbor? Do they murder the soul of so many with their vile mouths? Do they not worship the $1 and power, which comes from greed and envy?

I have a hard time seeing the Gospel teachings in any of them, OT yes, Paul yes, but Jesus?

And to ALL the good people at DU and some other sites I visit, I tell my mom all the time, that I know more atheists, agnostics, wiccans etc, that are better Christians than the RW wackos!