U-2 Spy Plane Crashes

[ECH1969]

WASHINGTON, June 21 - A U-2 spy plane crashed Tuesday night in Southwest Asia, the Defense Department announced, specifying an area where American aircraft support missions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The crash is the first of a U-2 in that region. Military officials who have been briefed on the crash said early indications were that the plane crashed on landing at Al Dhafra Air Base in the United Arab Emirates, its home base. The were no indications of hostile fire, they said.

The cause of the crash and status of the pilot are not known, the Pentagon said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/22/international/asia/22plane.html

[FloridaPat]

1. Aren't they a little old for flying? They were around during

Eisenhower's term. Maybe an SR71, but even they've been canned.

[Herkdrvr]

2. Many aircraft are old...

KC-135s are still flying and were built in 1956. C-130s are still flying that were built in 1962. B-52s are still flying that were delivered in 1962. That's the reality of it all. Age isn't the biggest factor, it's the number of flying hours on the airframe.

[ConfuZed]

3. Why are they using these when they have satellite?

amd why the hell did the retire the SR-71?

[alfredo]

4. they aren't always where you want them. let's face it, a camera of

similar quality 150 miles closer is going to give a lot more info.

[Herkdrvr]

7. Are you an AFSPC guy?

I will tell you that the space dudes in the AF will disagree with your statement.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

18. The "space dudes" can disagree all they want, but they would be wrong.

[Herkdrvr]

19. I have a couple friends who are space officers in the USAF

and I have no doubt we can cover alot of ground with satellites than we could with a handful of SR-71s.

[RPM]

29. more ground - sure...

but a few times, over and over, from closer up, is not something suited to teh satellite.

[Herkdrvr]

32. The imagery available from a satellite is pretty amazing

The story about a satellite taking a picture of a license plate number? Not too far off from the truth. As for repositioning, friends I speak to have said they have enough satellites up there to cover just about anywhere in the world at any given time.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

74. Yes, I've known about the capabilities of the US spy satellites....

...for quite some time. I know the resolution back then was good enough to be able to track Brezhnev's personal car whenever he left the Kremlin.

But they will never surpass the ability of planes, human or remotely piloted, to take closer, more detailed, looks at targets of interest.

And they will NEVER replace HUMINT...feet on the ground...for gathering detailed information.

[TX-RAT]

37. cover a lot of ground yes

Just not in as fine a detail

[alfredo]

50. Just commons sense. Equal cameras Shooting the same object

at different distances will give different results. First at 200 miles, there is a lot of atmosphere to shoot through, second you will have to zoom the image, increasing the grain, cutting the quality. The same camera with the same film taking an image of the same subject at 8 miles will not have as much atmosphere to contend with, and the subject will not have to be zoomed as much.

[jmowreader]

20. They will agree with this one, though

It is a LOT easier to put an airbreather where and when you want it than it is to put a satellite.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

27. They may disagree all they want, but, as usual

with many "missions" in the USAF, reality tends to interfere with their true beliefs.

[Herkdrvr]

6. SR-71 = huge money pit

The SR was built to evade missiles. There isn't a need to avoid them now because if the country we're looking at is too hostile, we use satellites...if it's not, we use the cheaper U-2.

[Up2Late]

9. SR-71 was a very exspensive Jet to Fly and maintain

SR-71 odd facts:

The skin of the thing would expane so much once at Mach 3, that it would leak fuel on the ground (because it was unexpanded when cool)

Once it was in the air after take-off, it had to be refueled.

[yowzayowzayowza]

21. A serious rush:

Dusk/Night SR71 takeoff viewed from about 20 yds beyond the end of the runway. The rising afterburners against the night sky earned it a local name of Habu after a venomous viper. The thunderous ascent is sharply contrasted by a descent schedule closely akin to a brick.

[burrowowl]

24. Satellites have to be repositioned

takes valuable satellite fuel, may not arrive in the correct orbit in time, etc.
U2s and Blackbirds can get there fast and weather permitting take photos while the satellite is still getting into the proper orbit, wasting fuel to keep itself in orbit, etc.

[pinniped]

25. My all-time favorite piece of...

military CIA hardware.

I think the costs of operating the Blackbird was out of the stratosphere. Not that military costs matters anymore.

[TrogL]

61. SR-71's were a bitch to maintain

On the ground, they literally leaked fuel like a sieve. They would gas them up just enough for them to get enough altitude for the wing tanks to seal up then do a mid-air refuel to top them up. Then they'd be ready for action.

[BrotherBuzz]

10. B-52s have been around since 1952

:shrug:

[Herkdrvr]

12. The current models, the B-52H, were delivered around 1964.

The ones you speak of are all retired and no longer in service.

[BrotherBuzz]

16. LOL, all I know about them is from the movie "Bombers B-52" (1957)

Starring the young Karl Malden as Master Sergeant Chuck V. Brennan. Great scenes of him tooling around the flight line on a Cushman scooter.

[queeg]

13. The current plan --

will include keeping the B-52 till the point when some of the airframes will have reached 90 years old---yup 90

[Massacure]

30. It doesn't matter how old the places are.

It just matters how many flying hours are on the airframe. Once the airframe is worn, the plane needs to be scrapped. The B-52 can always be given new avionics, electronics, and engines to bring it to par with the times though.

[catnhatnh]

36. Working til 90....

...seems to be a recurring Bush theme.Maybe when baby boomers apply for SS they can just install new engines and avionics in them and send them back to work.....

[Up2Late]

14. Is it true they are going to try to fly the B-52 till 2040?

and do they have any of those (B-52s) out in the desert in "Mothballs"?

[Herkdrvr]

15. The only B-52 in service now is the B-52H

The mothballed ones were scrapped as part of arms limitations.

[Up2Late]

17. I saw some of the satellite photos of the chopped up B-52s...

...with the Wings and Tail chopped off (the photo's they had to show the Soviets), seemed like such a waste to do that.:cry:

[NNN0LHI]

5. The last of thirty-seven Lockheed U-2R/TR-1A/B...

...high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft were delivered to the Air Force on October 3, 1989.

Don

[Gregorian]

8. The U-2 was updated

I'm not very up on this. A bit of googling reveals a lot. But basically the U-2 became the TR-1, which became the U-2R. They upgraded engines and added "things".
I grew up around the plane. Back in the sixties I could tell time by the U-2 taking off every day. It was always 11am, or noon. I forget now. And for the next ten minutes one could hear that roar. Straight up, nearly, it went, until out of sight.
In 1990 I lived near the flight path, and occasionally I was lucky enough to spot a U-2 landing. Some of them looked very new.

[Herkdrvr]

11. The latest version is the U-2S

Digital cockpit displays...and yes, many of the airframes are newer.

[seriousstan]

22. A U-2 landing is very tricky. It requires a chase car.

I peripherally see Barber accelerating the 140-mph, stock Chevrolet Camaro along the runway as he joins in tight formation with our landing aircraft. I hear him on the radio calling out our height (standard practice for all U-2 landings). The U-2 must be close to normal touchdown attitude at a height of one foot before the control wheel is brought firmly aft to stall the wings and plant the tailwheels on the concrete. The feet remain active on the pedals, during which time it is necessary to work diligently to keep the wings level. A roll spoiler on each wing lends a helping hand when its respective aileron is raised more than 13 degrees.

The aircraft comes to rest, a wing tip falls to the ground, and crewmen appear to reattach the pogos for taxiing.

Landing a U-2 is notoriously challenging, especially for those who have never flown taildraggers or sailplanes. It can be like dancing with a lady or wrestling a dragon, depending on wind and runway conditions. Maximum allowable crosswind is 15 kt.

http://www.barryschiff.com/high_flight.htm

[KDLarsen]

28. To top it off..

These landings comes after speding numerous hours in the air, at times where the pilot(s) must be feeling exhausted.

[expatriot]

23. I have a friend in the AF that flies this circuit on an AWAC

They do surveillance of both Iraq and Afghanistan on a single flight out of Qatar, and come to think of it, I am sure Iran also. I sure hope they didn't have him go up on this U-2.

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. Yes, strange how they left Iran out of the original story

seeing as it's in between the 2 countries they did mention - and the US probably has more desire for reconaissance from there than the countries they (at least partly) control. Still, if it had actually crashed inside Iran, I'd have thought the Iranians would be shouting by now.

[Massacure]

31. AWACS have quite a bit of range to their radars.

You could fly two or three miles away from the border and still peer a good distance into the country.

[soda]

33. flashback to u2 shot down

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/17/newsid_2512000/2512335.stm
I hope its not in Iran this time

[maddezmom]

34. U.S. Spy Plane Crashes in Asia; Pilot Dead

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A U.S. Air Force U-2 spy plane has crashed in southwest Asia, killing the pilot, the military said Wednesday.

The cause of Tuesday night's crash was under investigation, U.S. Central Command said in a statement.

One official said the location of the crash was not released because "host nation sensitivities" were involved.

The Central Command's statement used the term "southwest Asia," which can be used as a substitute for describing the Middle East.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050622/ap_on_re_mi_ea/spy_plane_crash/nc:736;_

[cal04]

35. Pilot dies in U2 plane crash

From correspondents in Baghdad

A US Air Force U-2 spy plane has crashed in southwest Asia killing its pilot, the military said in a statement released overnight in Baghdad."The pilot completed flying a mission in support of Operation Enduring Freedom (in Afghanistan) and was returning to base when the crash occurred (late Tuesday)," the statement said.

However, the military would not confirm the location of the crash, "due to host nation sensitivities," said US Major Kelley Thibodeau, a spokeswoman for US Air Force Central Command."We have an ongoing investigation," Thibodeau said. "There is a team of Air Force members that will determine the cause of the mishap. They will meet and conduct an investigation to determine the cause."The military statement said that the site had been secured "to ensure the safety of local citizens and the integrity of the site for investigation team members."


U-2s have been in service since 1955, and the best-known incident involving one was when Francis Gary Powers was shot down on May 1, 1960 over the former Soviet Union.The incident led to the collapse of a proposed summit conference between the United States, the Soviet Union, Great Britain, and France in Paris.

US president Dwight Eisenhower's initial claim that he had no knowledge of such flights was undone when the Soviets produced Powers, who had survived the crash.He was sentenced to 10 years in prison, but released in 1962 in exchange for convicted Soviet spy Rudolph Abel.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,15701580%255E1702,00.html

[NNN0LHI]

38. Wonder why the pilot didn't eject when he knew he was going down?

After reading the sketchy reports it sounds like he was flying to Afghanistan from a base in the Persian Gulf. That would put the U-2 over Iran for some time. Wonder if it was shot down over Iran?

Don

[Nihil]

39. Maybe

1) Not conscious.
2) The bolts in the ejector seat retrofit after the Gary Powers episode.
3) The news isn't 100% accurate.

[Herkdrvr]

42. Just because you fly from the Persian Gulf to Afghanistan...

does not mean you fly over Iran...now, the U-2 can do missions like that, but I fly from Oman/Qatar/UAE to Afghanistan and never fly through Iranian airspace.

[readmylips]

40. Yea, that Mo-Fo pilot ejected in the Yuma, AZ inccident....

with 4/500 ton bombs aboard. Yuma, a tiny town, could have been wiped off the map. That mother-foker pilot needs to be sent to jail. An experienced and career pilot never would have allowed his airplane to crash in a populated area. In this case, Yuma is in the middle of a desert, the mother-foker pilot could have piloted the plane, armed with bombs, away from the city.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pachamama]

43. Let me guess - It crashed in Iran, then we are going to start an int'l

incident over it, invade in order to rescue the pilot...voila...Commander Cuckoo-Bananas has his latest war..... :eyes:

[Herkdrvr]

44. It did not crash in Iran

It crashed on approach to the FOL.

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. 'FOL'? What's that? (n/t)

[Nihil]

47. F*ckup On Landing? (n/t)

[Herkdrvr]

48. Forward Operating Location...the article names the airfield above

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. Thanks - but it just says "while returning" to the UAE

not on approach - assuming you mean this article (the URL in post #34 was screwed up for me). That might mean Pakistan.

[Herkdrvr]

51. Actually it says this:

"Military officials who have been briefed on the crash said early indications were that the plane crashed on landing at Al Dhafra Air Base in the United Arab Emirates"

And here's what the Air Force news website said:

"The pilot of an Air Force U-2 Dragon Lady died when his plane crashed at a forward-deployed location here in the early hours of June 22"

If it went down in Iran or Pakistan, we would know about that already.

[muriel_volestrangler]

53. Ah - thanks - I'd been looking at the later reports

Strangely, it's the short original report in the New York Times from over 12 hours ago that specifies 'on landing', and the longer, later reports leave that out totally.

[Pachamama]

46. Phew....what a relief! I was worried there that the Boy King might have

found the excuse he's looking for!

[IndianaGreen]

52. It did not crash in Iran, but Iran was certainly its mission!

Looks like our glorious military is getting ready to open an Eastern front, despite having most of its troops bogged down in Iraq.

[katty]

57. Scott Ritter talked about bases FOL in last installment

on War w/Iran

[Herkdrvr]

60. I'm glad you are privy to the mission details...why don't you...

shed some light on those for the rest of us.

[IndianaGreen]

64. Did you think the U-2 was taking pictures of dhows on the Persian Gulf?

There have been a rash of UFO reports out of Iran in recent months. It is assumed that the "UFOs" in question are US spy planes. What are we spying on? Probably the Iranian air defenses and military deployments.

[Herkdrvr]

66. No, they could have been taking pics of...

...Taliban positions in the wilds of Afghanistan for all you know. I know for a fact that they run U-2 flights over Afghanistan...as for this particular mission, I have no clue. But you're speculating.

As for the UFO theory, flying at 70,000+ feet no one on the ground is going to see the U-2...unless YOU can spot a slender, black airplane that is 13-14 miles away.

[IndianaGreen]

68. U-2 is unfit for tactical pictures of a battlefield. A SUAV would be more

suitable for such a mission because if provides field commanders with real-time data.

I strongly suspect that the news that the U-2 was being used over Afghanistan is a cover for its real mission, which most likely was Iran.

[Herkdrvr]

70. Depends on what kind of view you want

UAVs are used on the tactical battlefield, but the U-2 also provides imagery for that purpose as well, and has the capability to provide near-real time information. I know they flew missions over Afghanistan...as for this particular flight I don't know.

[fryguy]

54. DOD not disclosing location because of "sensitivity to host country"

since when is our militaty "sensitive" to the wishes of any country in south-west asia (read: middle east).....

[UpInArms]

55. Related: U.S Spy Plane Pilot Dies in Asia Crash

http://www.latimes.com/la-062205plane_lat,0,1824118.story?coll=la-home-headlines

The pilot of a U.S. spy plane died in a crash while returning the aircraft to its base in the United Arab Emirates, the U.S. military announced today.

The plane, a U-2 model designed during the Cold War and still the stalwart of the nation's airborne intelligence, went down late Tuesday in an undisclosed location in southwest Asia, U.S. Central Command said.

The aircraft was returning from an assignment for Operation Enduring Freedom, the military name for the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan, when the plane crashed. The cause remains under investigation, the military said.

The military was unwilling to disclose the crash site, it said, "to ensure the safety of local citizens and the integrity of the site for the investigation."

The pilot, whose name has been withheld until the military can notify family members, was described as "a true American hero in the service of his country," according to Col. Darryl Burke, 380th Expeditionary Wing commander.

...more...

[bill]

73. I knew the pilot...

Duane Dively, great guy. He could have retired last year but loved flying the big bird.

blue skies Duane

:cry:

[Chicago Democrat]

56. I find it amazing that Bono can afford a Spy Plane!

Too bad it crashed.

[katty]

58. How Soon The Big War in ME?

continue at...http://www.rense.com/general66/howsoonthebigwar.htm

How Soon The Big War
In The Middle East?
By Jack Manuelian
6-21-5

If you ask that question to Scott Ritter, a former US Marine and a UN weapons inspector in Iraq from 1991 to 1998, his answer would be soon...as he states in an article of his that was posted in Aljazeera.net on June 20, 2005. Scott Ritter's article "The US War With Iran Has Already Begun" was posted under the headline of OPINION, so it is one man's opinion.

After mentioning that "...the US war with Iran has already begun. As we speak, American over flights of Iranian soil are taking place, using pilot-less drones and other, more sophisticated, capabilities," Scott says: "To the north, in neighboring Azerbaijan, the US military is preparing a base of operations for a massive military presence that will foretell a major land-based campaign designed to capture Tehran."

continue at...http://www.rense.com/general66/howsoonthebigwar.htm

[icymist]

59. More about Scott Ritter and the war in Iran here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3916614&mesg_id=3916614

You still can catch an interview with Scott Ritter on the Mike Webb show tonight at 5:00 p.m. (pst) on Mikes web site:

http://www.mikewebb.org/audio.htm (click on the microphone at the top of the page)

[daleo]

62. It certainly sounds like they were spying on Iran

Afghanistan to UAE would have to overfly Iran or Pakistan. Who knows, it might have been looking for Ossama (as if Bush really cared).

[Herkdrvr]

63. OEF theater still requires recce assets

There is a lot of open space in Afghanistan and the U-2 is out there covering it. It doesn't necessarily involve overflights of Iran. The US has overflight clearance with Pakistan, so overflight of Iran is not necessary.

[daleo]

65. But it could have been Iran.

It would fit in with Ritter's theory about war with Iran. It would also be consistent with behavior before the Iraq war. I grant that there are lots of interesting areas in Afghanistan, though, especially near the Pakistan border (thus the remark about Ossama).

I imagine there is a lot of cat and mouse going on in and around Iranian airspace these days.

[Herkdrvr]

67. Maybe it could have been, who knows...

all I'm saying is I see an awful lot of people who seem to "know" what's going on, when they really don't know squat. Just know that this particular U-2 could have been overflying any number of places.

[daleo]

69. Much of this is in the realm of speculation rather than knowledge

It's true. But speculation serves a purpose too and as human beings, we can't help ourselves. Especially when it comes to international affairs.

[billbuckhead]

71. I bet they are testing Iranian radar systems

A few select pictures while their at it.

[SweetLeftFoot]

72. Yep

Def. Iran. Don't forget that the battle plan will call for Iran's air defences to be overwhelmed early on. If it happened - and I'm yet to be convinced - there would be an air armada coming from Iraq in the west, Azerbaijan and Uzbekistan in the north, Bagram in the east and from the carriers in the Gulf.