Brain sees violent video games as real life -study

[RamboLiberal]

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2005062214260002552914&dt=20050622142600&w=RTR&coview=

The brains of players of violent video games react as if the violence were real, a study has suggested.

Klaus Mathiak at the University of Aachen in Germany studied the brain patterns of 13 men aged 18 to 26 who, on average, played video games for two hours a day.

Wired up to a scanner, they were asked to play a game involving navigating through a complicated bunker, killing attackers and rescuing hostages.

Mathiak found that as violence became imminent, the cognitive parts of the brain became active and that during a fight, emotional parts of the brain were shut down.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. Just more "video games are evil" BS

I've been playing them all of my life and I've never started a single fight or taken any violent action.

[DS1]

2. That's why I enjoy Grand Theft Auto so much

It lets me actually DO the things I want to. Like blast people in the head, and the next 5 random people around them, for getting in my damn way.

[KittyWampus]

35. It's Also Why The World Around You Is So Full Of Violence. You Are

contributing to the violence within the Collective Unconscious.

Be the change you want to see in the world.

[mongo]

46. We should get congress to step in

to protect the "collective Unconscious".

Oh pleeeze.

[sui generis]

3. so those weren't real vampires chasing me and buffy last night?

and buffy was a guy?

I'm so confused!

:+

[democracyindanger]

4. And a recent news story reported that during an orgasm, parts of

a woman's emotional areas of the brain shut down.

Therefore, video game violence = female orgasm.

[sasquatch]

5. University of Aachen

Do they have a statue of Charlemange on campus?

[patrice]

6. I think the point that, in order to react appropriately, the brain

must regard the input at "Real", is an acceptable probability. If you don't think it is real on some level, your reactions will be inadequate and thus result in your "death". So you have to suspend disbelief enough to react effectively or else.

In the brain, repetition strengthens the likelihood of a response pattern. Repeated use of the neurons and processes of cognition "as if" X is "real", primes those neuronal events.

Not everyone who uses such games becomes overtly violent because of different biological resources and different environments that result in those "primed" neuronal events becoming associated with other modes of manifestation, which, BTW, even if they aren't overtly violent aren't necessarily helpful or useful either.

[Mechatanketra]

8. "Other modes of manifestation"

In other words, even if you're playing a violent video game and somehow think of it as 'real', you're still playing a video game. So the next time someone ticks you off in public, you'll be trained to act like you would in the game ...

... pressing several buttons in sequence and spinning a joystick around.

Hmm. Suddenly, this sounds like a case for video games. :-)

[KittyWampus]

36. It Isn't Necessarily Re: Becoming Violent Oneself. It's About Contributing

the violence that exists within one's environment.... mentally, emotionally and psychically.

[TrogL]

49. Violence is leaking out of my computer??

It's being beamed into the heavens by my monitor??

Get a grip.

[ixion]

7. sure, it's SIMULATED ... it's not REAL

Some day, people are going to get that through their thick skulls. The important point is to be able to separate REAL reality from VIRTUAL reality. That seems to be very difficult for some. :eyes:

[jsamuel]

16. its only hard to separate for those who don't use VIRTUAL reality nt

[Barrett808]

9. You know you've been playing an FPS game too long...

When you're in the supermarket, and instead of reaching out to grab a can of tomatoes, you reach for the "grab" key in your favorite game.

Been there -- it's a weird sensation.

[youspeakmylanguage]

15. I developed a bad habit of speeding in my car for awhile...

..after first getting hooked on Grand Theft Auto III. I never had the urge to break the law in any other way.

[shawn703]

10. This sounds like a half-baked study to me

Even if the cognitive parts of the brain become active (you can't play these games without thinking a little), and the emotional parts shut down (what do you need them for when playing these games?), what does that show exactly? Wouldn't they get the similar results by hooking people up to a scanner who are doing crossword puzzles? If they do, does that mean that your brain equates doing crossword puzzles with real violence?

Some big differences between video game violence and the real thing - When playing a video game, you know you're not really going to get hurt. In real life, you know getting hurt is a real possibility. When playing a video game, you know you get to try again if you get killed. In real life, you know getting killed means there's no do-overs.

[fishwax]

13. the headline is bullshit too

The actual article says that "The pattern was the same as that seen in subjects who have had brain scans during other simulated violent situations."

so the brain reacts similarly to a video game simulation of a violent situation the same way that it does to some other simulation of a violent situation? What am I missing?

[shawn703]

17. That's a good point, and I missed that sentence

They sure didn't do any brain scans of Navy SEALs on an actual hostage rescue mission, so how can they come to the conclusion that playing video games is viewed by your brain as being the real thing.

I would think that there are differences in how your brain handles simulated violence compared to how it handles real violence where there is a real threat of bodily injury or death. I may have the biggest balls of steel when playing a game like Doom 3, but if I had to face a zombie or demon in real life, I wouldn't pick up a shotgun and kick Hell's ass, I'd be screaming and running as fast as I could in the opposite direction.

[fishwax]

38. lol

I'd be hightailing it too. I agree that the reaction must be quite different when faced with real harm.

[susanna]

57. LOL...

You and me both. I'm a Quake/Half Life junkie from way back, and if it weren't for the do-overs, I would not have even given it a shot (no pun intended).

I have also never had a problem with misplaced "real life" anger, though. As a matter of fact, most people are stunned when I tell them I used to play violent video games as part of a LAN (then Internet) league. "But you seem so nice." Heh. ;-)

[mike_c]

11. I think lots of responders in this thread are missing the point....

The issue isn't one of cognition, it's one of information processing. Information enters via the senses-- primarily visual in humans-- and is processed along nervous system and endocrine pathways that are under both genetic and experiential control. The genetic part governs most of the network structure and a significant part of the thresholds for action within the network. That's influenced by evolution, on evolutionary time scales, not by cognitive awareness. You might KNOW that video game violence is not real, but you don't have separate pathways for understanding "fake" violence and "real" violence. The stimulus coming in through visual pathways is processed the same, regardless, and at least part of the outcome is the same, e.g. excitement, heightened awareness, stress hormone release, and so on. That's what makes video games "fun"-- they tap into the brain's evolved pathways for processing potentially threatening information. If they didn't, you wouldn't feel excited by them.

That's not the same as saying that playing video games makes one an ax murderer, but is is the same as saying that at a mechanistic level-- NOT necessarily at a cognitive level-- video game murderers and real ax murderers likely perceive the action similarly. I added the "necessarily" to that statement to allow for the truely pathological inability to cognitively separate "real" violence from "imaginary" violence, which undoubtedly does exist.

Frankly, I think the same statement can be made about all visual entertainment-- it exploits the information processing pathways that have evolved in humans as visual primates, pathways that evolved under a very different set of selective pressures, but which cause physical manifestations that we enjoy.

[democracyindanger]

12. I don't doubt that the brain shuts down parts of itself

during activities that require concentration. At the same time, I don't doubt that this study will be flogged as "See? GTA turns kids into killers!"

[HuckleB]

28. It is interesting.

There seems to be a lack of curiosity, especially with anything that might indicate that we have less control over what our brains do than we would like to think. A statement that refers to a great deal more than this one "study." Blanket dismissals, often made without taking the time to read the full article, and certainly made without taking the time to read the actuall study, are much easier than having to think about the possibility that our brain may work or think in ways we don't want it to, especially in ways we don't want others to know about.

[susanna]

59. Thanks, mike_c.

I find your post very interesting...I had not really thought of it that way before!

(Yes, I'm a former player - I find it much less interesting these days, but every once in a while crank up the "Quake on Ice" mod just to laugh myself silly.)

[Thor_MN]

61. So where is the study that scans the brain of an axe murderer?

When the scan of your axe murderer doing an axe murder matches up with the brain scans someone playing a game, then I'll buy into the theory. Until then, this is junk science.

[youspeakmylanguage]

14. "Brain sees pornography as real life -study"

The brains of viewers of pornographic magazines and movies react as if the sex and models were real, a study has suggested.

Ron Jeremy at the University of the San Fernando Valley studied the brain patterns of 13 men aged 18 to 26 who, on average, "like chicks".

Wired up to a scanner, they were asked to watch a video involving actors navigating through a poorly acted scene involving a delivery man and a lonely housewife, some sweaty foreplay and sexual intercourse.

Jeremy found that as the intercourse became imminent, the test subjects reacted...

uh...what were those Forum Rules again?

[theearthisround]

18. Brain sees violent video games as real life -study

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050622/tc_nm/science_videos_dc_2

LONDON (Reuters) - The brains of players of violent video games react as if the violence were real, a study has suggested.
-------
Mathiak found that as violence became imminent, the cognitive parts of the brain became active and that during a fight, emotional parts of the brain were shut down.

The pattern was the same as that seen in subjects who have had brain scans during other simulated violent situations.

It suggests that video games are a "training for the brain to react with this pattern," Mathiak says.

[No Michael Savage]

19. Link?

[jpgray]

20. Wait a minute here.

"The pattern was the same as that seen in subjects who have had brain scans during other simulated violent situations."

Isn't a video game in and of itself a "simulated violent situation"?

[shawn703]

21. Study - Brain sees violent video games as violent video games n/t

[K-W]

25. Yep, apparently video games do what they advertise,

big news Im sure.

[Kraklen]

30. "simulated violent situations"

= books, movies, paintings, plays, interpretive dance, sporting events...

[K-W]

24. The obvious stated as if it were substantive news.

Of course the brain acts like it is real, there would be no point in playing if it didnt.

[Cronus Protagonist]

22. Brain sees dreams as real life - study!!

*yawn*

sorry, I'm tired.

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[Endangered Specie]

23. Study: some peoples brains are not as bright as others.

and under the category of "not so bright" are the researchers who think a sample size of 13, with an age range of 8 years and one gender, constitues a "study".

Just because CERTAIN parts of your brain react to a videogame does not mean your WHOLE brain think it is real, people have all sorts of emotional reactions to fictional movies, tv and books!! (DUH!)

I play all sorts of violent games, and Ive never killed anything larger than a roach. Violent games are, just like TV, a release, a chance to get those primitive urges to mame/kill something out of my system.

[Deja Q]

26. I've played them for years. Unlike people who haven't and killed anyway,

I'm not going around with a bazooka blowing peoples' brains out because I had played Unreal Tournament 3/Quake 3/Doom 3/et al 3.

[LanternWaste]

27. Sheesh....

Sheesh, *anyone*, regardless of age that plays video games for two hours a day (on average), has more than the emotional part of their brain shut down....

:eyes:

[jsamuel]

29. Imagination determined to be dangerous -study

This reminds me of the war on Dungeons and Dragons... Geez...

[HuckleB]

47. Sorry, but that's not comparable.

[NashVegas]

31. I Think Y'all Are Misreading This

It's not saying that the person perceives this as actual violence, just that their brain reacts the same way as if it was.

Having been involved with some online multi-player gaming, it meshes with a lot of stuff I've seen.

Consider the notorious 'player killers' of the Diablo scene. Battlenet had to put protections in because people were picking random players to go after and kill their characters & loot the corpses. It's one thing when you have two players who agree to engage in this style of play with each other, but to do it to a complete stranger indicates a certain lack of empathy, doesn't it? When someone targets you unexpectedly, it's going to trigger your fight or flight mechanism.

[jsamuel]

32. flaws are all over!

Maybe the emotion sector of the brain shut down because it was boring or because it WASN'T REAL!

This "study" had no basis to conclude that it was because it was "real", only that it acted like that in this specific instance with men who are age blahblah and play blahblah hours a day. That is not science, that is assumptions.

[NashVegas]

33. Do You Play Video Games? War? Shoot-em-ups?

If so, when you play, are you in the same mental & emotional state that you would be in if you were, say, bowling? Biking? Baking?

[jsamuel]

37. How about when i have an assignment due in an hour? then yes!!!

Biking doesn't need concentration and split second reation timing. It's about the action and the amount of brain activity involved, not whether or not it is violent!

For example, there are video games that have you play piano in order to proceed with the game. You have to play correctly and in the right timing. The tempo speeds up and you must concentrate harder and cut off operation to parts of the brain that are not being used. Any type of split second task like this will induce that kind of reaction.

[K-W]

40. Of course different activities produce different emotional states,

and simulating an act of violence would probably produce something that would in some way resemble actual violence. This does not indict violent games in the slightest.

[NashVegas]

45. These Responses Are Examples of What I Was Talking About

In my original post. Nowhere did I indict violent games, and nowhere does the article indict the games. Yet people in this thread are flipping out over it as if it did.

[K-W]

39. You are the one confusing reality and games, not Player Killers.

They are just being jerks in a game, the same as people who are jerks during sports. Is there a lack of empathy, to a small extent, they certainly dont care about your game playing experience, but they arent neccessarily expressing anything too unhealthy. It isnt exactly that big laps in moral judgement to screw with nameless faceless people in an online game where nothing is at stake.

All this study did is show that simulated violence simulates a brain response to violence, it really isnt informative information as far as the issue of violence in video games is concerned.

There is no reason in the world to believe that the act of being violent in a video game can be equated to the act of being violent in real life.

[NashVegas]

42. Please Re-read My Post

I think I made it pretty clear I thought the article isn't saying that violent video games make a person violent when they aren't gaming. I thought I made it clear they aren't even saying they make a person violent, period.

They are saying that when we are playing them, our brains, or brain areas, behave as they would in a real life violent situation. You basically repeated the same thing.

It isnt exactly that big laps in moral judgement to screw with nameless faceless people in an online game where nothing is at stake.

You would be amazed at the stakes some people apply to their gaming experience, especially the multiplayer games, with widespread communications abilities where people get ranked. Whole societal microcosms form. People with high rankings are treated like rock stars. If some people didn't apply stakes to their gaming experience, the side industry of 'cheat' publications wouldn't exist.

[mike_c]

48. many of the folks replying to this thread haven't the first clue...

...how animal nervous systems work. It's kind of like the shocking lack of basic biological understanding displayed during the evolution threads a year or so ago. It's really discouraging for those of use spending careers trying to teach this stuff.

[NashVegas]

54. Well I Don't Really Know It Either

I've just done my time in the gaming world :)

[susanna]

58. Excellent point.

I've also done the multi-player, albeit years ago w/ Quake. Our biggest problem was bots, though; folks gaming the system to kill you when they were nowhere around. Literally, they shot from out of their ass, from across the compound, through a stone wall. Then they'd put up the trash talk: "kicked your ass, looooooozer!"

I always figured folks who had to cheat at games of (arguable) skill needed assistance of some sort. (I still enjoyed playing, I just figured out which servers allowed bots and which were clean, and then chose accordingly.)

But I see exactly what you are saying. Very, very interesting.

[KittyWampus]

34. Your Subconscious Mind Builds Your Environment According To The Input

it gets from the Conscious Mind.

If you spend time on a regular basis playing violent video games you are giving your subconscious mind a suggestion of violence.

Your subconscious mind does NOT make the distinction between "real" and "fake" violence.

[Bread and Circus]

55. bah... poppycock.... whatever....

sounds like voodoo parlor psychology to me. I'm not buying it.

[Rex]

41. So basically the reaction by the brain was the same.

This really shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone. The brain works efficiently and orders the areas of the brain that use similar patterns (killing in war and killing in a video game use the same part of the brain because both are similar cognitave functions just different motor functions. This proves nothing about the psychological side of playing violent video games. For the record, our last century was the most violent in human history. Why don't we focus on the REAL wars and what makes assholes like Bush start them!

[Massacure]

43. I don't see the point of this.

If two kids play "cops and robbers" and two more kids play a computer video game, aren't they both getting the same stimulus?

[mike_c]

51. no, they don't....

If they enact the violence so realistically that they flirt with real rage, or trigger an endocrine fight or flight response, maybe, but that's exactly the opposite of the social role those sorts of make believe games normally play.

If violent video games didn't activate many of the same nervous system responses as real violence does they wouldn't be exciting. Imagine the sales of a video game where the player wields a futuristic weapon with which he yells "Bang! Bang!" at other characters, who smile and continue about their business. The player can pretend he's being violent all he wants, but there is no violent visual feedback. Do you think such a game would be very popular? Why not? Because it doesn't activate neural pathways and endocrine responses that raise alertness, heighten excitement, increase heartrate, etc. Pathways normally used to process information about potential threats.

[Raiden]

44. That's bullshit!

I play GTA all the time, and I am no more violent because of it. This is just more anti-video game propaganda...

[TrogL]

50. After I played Half-life 2, I waved a crowbar threateningly

at my daughter's boyfriend.

He thought it was funny too.

[Bread and Circus]

52. Crucial question: what do the brainwaves look like when killing?

I doubt this has been studied well.

It sounds to me like the study in the article really just proved that when the games get tough, it makes people start to hunker down and think.

And god forbid, anyone think!

[HuckleB]

53. A slightly more thorough piece on the study...

which can be described as prospective at best.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4119408.stm

[Bread and Circus]

56. I tell you what happens when I play video games...namely world of warcraft

I have a good time, try to make friends, get a rush out of building my character. I like the problem solving involved. When I am killing monsters... it engages and stimulates the "challenge" centers in my brain more than any thirst for blood. Sure, if I lose, I get cranky. But if I win, I am in a great mood. That goes for all kinds of competitive activities and I think sports are probably analogous.

Watching tv or reading books is just too brain-passive for me. I like to be "doing" something with my mind when I am being entertained.

[HuckleB]

62. Reading books is "brain-passive"?

Sorry, but that's baloney, and indicates a lack of understanding of how the brain works, learns and develops creativity.

[progressivebydesign]

64. Umm do you ever think of actually like.. "doing something"??

I mean.. rather than sit in a chair and be entertained? Do you ever consider taking those hours and doing something positive? Like.. building a house through Habitat for Humanity? Or perhaps getting outside and living in real life?

My daughter's friends are all heavy gamers and frankly they have little connection to the outside world.. choosing to be indoors pretending to be living through technology.

I'm more of a hands on person.. I have no interest in being entertained by committing violence or watching violence electronically. Life is too short to "play" life.

[really annoyed]

60. Geez...

My friend enjoys violent video games such as Grand Theft Auto. I played violent video games when I was a teenager.

Both of us turned out to be normal, passive liberals. :P

Geez, leave video games alone.

[progressivebydesign]

63. That's so wrong. We are breeding sociopaths..

..all to enrich CORPORATE AMERICA. I hope all you liberal game players that jump to the defense of this violence are happy enriching the corporate masters.