House Approves Flag-Burning Amendment

[UCLA Dem]

WASHINGTON - A constitutional amendment to outlaw flag burning cleared the House Wednesday but faced an uphill battle in the Senate. An informal survey by The Associated Press suggested the vote there could be close.

The 286-130 outcome was never in doubt in the House, which had passed the measure or one like it five times in recent years. The amendment's supporters expressed optimism that a Republican gain of four seats in last November's election could produce the two-thirds approval needed in the Senate as well after four failed attempts since 1989.

But an AP survey Wednesday found 34 senators on record as opposing the amendment — the exact number needed to defeat it, barring a change in position. Democratic Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Ken Salazar of Colorado declined to state their positions Wednesday.

House debate fell along familiar lines over whether the amendment strengthened the Constitution or ran afoul of its free-speech protections.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050622/ap_on_go_co/flag_burning;_ylt=AsNBdS7sdFqEYDy5I.I1tu2s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

Why are we wasting time on this?? People are dying overseas and 43 million Americans don't have health insurance.

[K8-EEE]

1. Don't They Have Any REAL Problems??

Jesus, "solving" a total non-issue. idiots.

[radfringe]

29. phew.... now I feel safer

:sarcasm:

no hippie left-winger radical will be able to burn the flag...

our troops in Iraq are now able to wrap the Humvees in flags instead of armor and be safe...

we can all drink cleaner water and breath cleaner air now that the flag has been fire proofed

jobs will be created now that people aren't afraid of having their flags burned

expressing our right to free speech has been preservered -- we no longer have to worry about scorch marks from embers falling from burning flags to distract us from speaking out

the money we save from replacing burning flags can now be invested into private social security accounts

and that pesky memo from Downing Street is no longer a concern as the national debate focuses on old glory

brings a tear to my eyes... :cry:

[Straight Shooter]

2. Thank God they're taking care of the burning flags causing pollution.

Honestly, every day I go out, there's someone out there, burning a big ol' American flag. It's disgusting. Can't even take a walk without the good ol' red white and blue in flames, filling the air with smoke. I'm so glad our Congress critters have their priorities in order. We must preserve our sacred symbol from being burned, and pay no mind to the fact that what it represents is going down in flames.

:sarcasm:

[Lisa]

18. yeah -- and how about those greenhouse gases?

Burning flags give off a lot of CO2 -- and yet people refuse to give Congress the credit for trying to eliminate this major contribution to global warming.

[Pacifist Patriot]

3. Well of course protecting the symbol is far more important than

protecting the land and people it actually flies over. What a crock!

[blueheeler]

4. I was thinking it might be a trap....

Push this through when the problem does not exist and expect the left to make noise and then they could say we are all unAmerican, we scream about the koran abuse but want to burn the flag.

Just my notion :)

[Democat]

28. If the trap is to have the "left" support free speech and the constitution

That's the kind of trap we should step into every chance we get.

Republicans are against free speech and civil rights. Democrats need to stand on the right side of this issue. If it is done the right way, we will win votes, not lose them.

[Parche]

5. flag burnin

So whats next...............Freedom Toast? Freedom Fries?

[powwowdancer]

7. or how about...

patriot pie? jesus jerky? jesus juice? (from snapple, not MJ), bible bread, (you can all ready get this at a health food store near you!), or enemy combatant loaf with a side of pre-emptive potatoes? Care for some democracy dessert with that? Hell, why stop at food? Why not have a "let's roll-gasm?" after some decadent "corporate coitU.S.?" Or if you're like most televangelists and republican pols, you can get a "free enterpise f**k" from the hooker du jour. There's a saying here in Kentucky about these kind of dumbasses. "They'd choke on a gnat and swallow a camel!" Tres apropos.

:dem:
powwowdancer out.

[K-W]

6. Nothing could desecrate the flag more than this ammendment. EOM

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pacifictiger]

9. so does this just apply to incineration

or does it cover shredding also? I can think of numerous ways to effectively deface without burning.
And what happens when the number of states change as will inevitably happen with these boyz in power - could altering anything on the current flag be considered defacing under the 'letter' of the law?
What trivial nonsense!

[confuddled]

15. "Desecration"

HJ Res 10
BILL TITLE: Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States authorizing the Congress to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States

[Lisa]

20. here's an example of just that kind of thing ...

Some fool who either doesn't know better, or is deliberately breaking the law by writing on this flag.




"Federal Flag Code, Section 4(g): "The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature."

[Old and In the Way]

10. Anyone see the irony here?

Now only terrorists can burn our flag. Everyone else in the world can burn our flag....but we can't. I guess the terrorists have won. They've got more freedom than we do.

When's the Apple Pie amendment going to be debated?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

11. Let me see if I've got this right...Burning the flag is not ok;

but letting it fade and tatter in the elements is fine?

I was under the impression that burning the flag was the only acceptable method of disposing of soiled and worn flags.

[Kenneth ken]

21. actually

the headline, at least, of the story is misleading. The actual text of the proposed amendment reads:

'The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States.'.

So, yeah, letting it fade and tatter in the elements may also become not ok. It would fall to Congress and/or the courts to determine what "desecration" means.

I think it is important when discussing this "issue", especially with cons that we use the word desecrate, not burn, and point out that much that they might think of as patriotic wrapping themselves in flag-based attire could be considered desecration.

That's the best way to beat this stupid idea.

:hi:

[pacifictiger]

24. How about everyone

starting a push to fly as many flags as possible upside down. Painted on buildings and all over the place. Legitimate signal of distress.

So technically, would wearing a flag lapel pin be considered improper use of the flag? Must it be cloth flying in the breeze to be considered a flag?

Oh, I can see all sorts of potential loopholes just for fun and ridicule. Painting on wood and burning .......paper mache artwork .... video projection ..... red white blue balloons exploding... decorated pie-in-the-face......

Maybe we should consider designing a "sane america" flag.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

30. Ad while we're at it,

someone needs to find that pic of Dumbyass autographing some freeper's flag, and put it on a t-shirt.

[Dora]

12. Is this for real?

It certainly seems to me that they're goading us. But for what? Are they uusing this to weaken our efforts at pushing the DSM?

Smells like a wedge issue to me. But it's a 1st Amendment issue too, and cannot be ignored.

[Redstone]

13. Burning the flag is not OK, but we can napalm all the Iraqi

children we want to.

And this fucking spineless Congress is just fine with that.

Redstone

[eternalburn]

14. Preparing for draft protests perhaps?....(nt)

[Mari333]

16. Here we go again

this is so lame, and another waste of taxpayers money, as usual..it will never be passed, and has already been shot down as a free speech violation by SCOTUS
the repukes must be desperate.

[PartyPooper]

17. Kick!

This thread should have a lot more posts than it currently has.

[UCLA Dem]

33. I thought it was a pretty big deal.

[MadisonProgressive]

19. Burning the flag is the preferred method of disposal

http://www.vfw.org/index.cfm?fa=cmty.leveld&did=2477

[napi21]

23. I was just going to post that! I was taught when a flag was tattered,

it should be burned. I guess I don't understand the deal with this proposed ammendment. What are they NOW suggesting the NEW methid of disposal should be? I know it's never supposed to be dragged on the ground, so that eliminates burying...doesn't it?

What prompted these guys to even bring this stuff up?

[Streetdoc270]

31. yes but....

first you have to cut away the Field, so it is no longer an American Flag. Then you can burn the two parts together. It called 'retiring' a flag.

[Theduckno2]

22. Just some pandering bunch of busy bodies.

All the issues facing this country and this gets their attention? An Equal Rights Amendment is good idea, but no time for that! Plenty of time for Terri Shiavo though (special session), but national health insurance? Not a chance.:mad:

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. funny cartoon

[Piperay]

26. What a 'burning' issue

I can't leave the house anymore without seeing a flag burned on every corner. :eyes: :sarcasm:

[Democat]

27. This is a perfect issue for Democrats to take a stand on!

The Democrats need to show that they are willing to take a stand on something controversial so that voters can see that they really do have their own views. This is the perfect issue because even though it's controversial, Democrats can claim to be on the side of free speech and the constitution, instead of being on the side of limiting freedom.

If Democrats cave in on this, like they have on every other issue, voters will just see more weakness and they will lose more votes than if they stood up on principal.

There is nothing to lose by standing up for free speech and the constitution.

We will only lose on this issue if we don't differentiate ourselves from the Republicans.

[MadisonProgressive]

32. Christ! How many dems voted for this?

[Ripley]

34. I'm gonna go burn mine right now.

And then email Hillary that I did it. Wheeeeeeeeeeeee!!

Watchagonnado? Arrest me, put me in jail?

So glad you have nothing else pressing.