Judge: Amtrak Can Charge Disabled Extra

[Rose Siding]

PHILADELPHIA - A federal judge ruled that Amtrak can charge a group of wheelchair users extra to ride in the same car together.

The wheelchair users, members of Disabled in Action of Pennsylvania, travel to Washington regularly to lobby. They sued after Amtrak told them that they could ride together on a Philadelphia-to-Washington train but that some of them would have to pay $200 more than the usual ticket price to cover the cost of removing seats.

The group sued, saying the policy violated the federal Americans With Disabilities Act.

U.S. District Judge Harvey Bartle III said Friday that under federal law, Amtrak must have one space to park a wheelchair and one space to store an unoccupied chair per passenger coach. It can charge extra for anything beyond that, Bartle ruled.

About three-quarters of those who were to go on the February trip are on fixed incomes of about $600 a month, the group said. Executive director Nancy Salandra said the charge on top of the $90 round-trip ticket price was too much for them to bear.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050622/ap_on_go_ot/amtrak_wheelchairs

[Deja Q]

1. Steal pensions, now extort people who've been disabled. Vets not excluded?

It's all about money.

And the more the system gears itself toward this one-sided pro-supply fascism is the more I am inclined to reject it. It's a cancer against the soul of humanity.

[Endangered Specie]

2. how does it cost $200 to remove a seat?

if amtrack is going to discriminate, they should lose government funding .

[LisaM]

3. Well that may well be someone's agenda

they are always trying to de-fund Amtrak. I strongly disagree with this decision, but please don't use it as an excuse to take money away from Amtrak.

[Endangered Specie]

4. its not an excuse...

companies that discrimate shouldnot be allowed federal funds or any kind of tax ememption?

agree yes or no?

the company name is rrelevant.

[LisaM]

8. Well I just can't see it in that black and white a fashion

I think Amtrak should have its funding quadrupled (or more.) But they are on a shoestring right now and they serve the needs of millions. It's not a "company" name - it's a barely-hanging-in-there essential service. If they cut funding it could hurt the livelihoods of a lot of people if they were unable to get on Amtrak to go to work. As I said, I don't agree with the decision - I am very pro ADA - but this is not that simple a case. I don't mean this against you personally, but this all or nothing thinking is what is tearing this country apart.

[wakeme2008]

5. Well I will agree with the Judge in this case.

Amtrak does meet ADA.

What this group wants is cars to be changed for their one trip. I think Amtrak is right to change them for that.

[oscar111]

36. ...

...

[David Zephyr]

6. You've got to be kidding me!

Wow!

How utterly vile.

[annabanana]

7. Just because they CAN

doesn't mean they SHOULD.
I hate legal mean-spirited parsimony.

[KamaAina]

9. Way to go, Amtrak! Drive away regular repeat business!

The wheelchair users, members of Disabled in Action of Pennsylvania, travel to Washington regularly to lobby.

And don't worry about the loss of income. I'm sure that Bush** and the repuke congress will rush to help you out with increased funding. :sarcasm:

Maybe they could take one of the really old cars, the ones they tack on to the trains the day before Thanksgiving, and take the seats out of it permanently, thereby making it the "disability party car".

[LisaM]

11. Actually, it doesn't sound as if they don't have enough seats

it just sounds as if they are not all together. Now, you have two options here. You can herd all the disabled into one car (I don't think that's right) or you can spread them out using a representative formula to determine how many seats you need to reasonably accommodate them. I honestly don't know what the answer is here.

[KamaAina]

12. In this instance, they *want* to be in the same car

presumably so they can go over their talking points before they get to the Hill, just as lobbyists for the Impoverished Oil Companies Association of America would.

Of course herding all passengers with disabilities into one car is segregation, except in this case, where they're traveling as a group. I was thinking that Amtrak could have one or two rehabbed older cars in the yard, ready to go in this fairly rare situation.

[wakeme2008]

14. I think Amtrak is right to charge this

people extra as should they charge any group that want changes made to the cars for them...

These people could get OUT of their wheelchairs and sitting in a normal seat for the trip.. Duhhhhh....

[KamaAina]

15. Paraplegics might be able to transfer to a standard seat, but

quadriplegics could not. Nowhere in the article is the nature of the passengers' disabilities stated, so there's not enough information to determine whether that's a workable solution.

[Pastiche423]

19. And where would they store their wheelchairs

once they got out of them?


Duhhhhh....

[wakeme2008]

20. Amtrak would store them

they still do have luggage cars.

[Pastiche423]

21. Don't know jack shit about wheelchairs

do you?

It pisses me off when some people talk out of their ass about a subject they know nothing about.

[wakeme2008]

24. yes they fold up and can be stored... nt

[Pastiche423]

27. A rigid manual wheelchair

can not be folded up. Neither can a powerchair. The majority of wheelchair users, use a rigid manual or a powerchair.

[wakeme2008]

28. A powerchair yes but most that do not need a powerchair

have folding chairs for their cars.

[Pastiche423]

29. Bullshit

Where the hell are you getting this information?

I have been using a rigid manual wheelchair for well over a decade. Out of the hundreds of crips that I know, not a single one of them uses a folding wheelchair.

[wakeme2008]

31. I think you have a problem

Almost every one I know has a folding one for traveling....

In Florida you see all the time at malls and restaurants, people folding wheelchairs up and putting them in the trunk...

[Pastiche423]

32. I have no problem

I know I am right.

There are people that do not have to depend on a wheelchair to go from point A to point B. Many, if not most, are elderly or can stand and walk.

But for someone that depends on a wheelchair for mobility (can not stand or walk), folding wheelchairs are extremely difficult to maneuver, are unstable, wear out fast and are very uncomfortable to sit in.

Btw, if someone is folding up their chair and putting it in their trunk, how do they get in the car?

[wakeme2008]

34. Well some ppl in wheelchairs have friends or relatives that

take them out and after they transfer to the car the friend/relative puts their traveling wheelchair in the trunk DUHHHHHH.


In the end the Judge was right. The train meant ADA standards. But these ppl wanted to seat together on a 2 hour train ride and wanted Amtrak to pull seats out for their convenience, so the extra fee was justified.

[ebayfool]

18. Have you another story link on this? I don't see anything in this one

saying it's by the group's request to all be in the same car.

snip/

They sued after Amtrak told them that they could ride together ...

Did Amtrak want them all in one car or was it a request from the group? COULD can be taken both ways.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

33. Due to wrecks and lack of funds

Amtrak doesn't have much in the way of spare equipment lying around.

[NashVegas]

10. If You Think This is Outrageous, Try Going to the UK

I traveled outside of our country for the first time a month ago, and in London and elsewhere encountered trains, both subway and long distance, that were only accessible by at least one flight of stairs. I saw an old woman handling the stairs at Waterloo station using her walker and couldn't believe my eyes.

Amtrak, like most other public spaces and entities, has worked to make its services usable by people with disabilities/challenges/what have you that only 20-30 years ago made traveling out of their homes difficult if not outright impossible.

The people going to do the lobbying need the transportation, but any need they have to sit together is either for psychological comfort or conferencing, and Amtrak is not required to provide for either.

[wakeme2008]

16. I was in one subway stop in London with an escalator and it did not work

no elevators. 1 1/2 stories underground (my guess) with lot of luggage...... :(

[NashVegas]

23. Aye, What a Pain

And that, for an able-bodied person. Imagine what people over there who are not so fortunate have to deal with.

[wakeme2008]

26. Right,,, only one escalator not two like in the US

and LOL it had wide wooden slats not metal like here.... In the US they can change direction to up if they only have one escalator working.

[Rose Siding]

17. If the train only has room for 2 wheelchairs in each car,

("...one space to park a wheelchair and one space to store an unoccupied chair per passenger coach") maybe there wouldn't be room for all of them on one train- I mean maybe this isn't about being together to conference.

[NashVegas]

22. That Is a Possibility

And it would be a pain in the hoo-hoo. But does the article state that that was the problem, or that they wanted to sit together?

[VegasWolf]

13. Can't they just sit at the back of the train. :-( nt

[Raiden]

25. What about the Americans With Disabilities Act?!

This can't be right!!!

[jsamuel]

30. Lets apply this to Black people?

4 black people want to ride together in one car. Amtrak says that they are not able to put all 4 black people in one car because they only have one "black seat" per car and want to charge them extra for the inconvience. Does that sound right?

[oscar111]

35. disabled should get some respect and help

otherwise, we are living in a savage society.

same respect should extend to the very young, the elderly, vets, and the sick.

Amtrak today, not much different from the Third Reich.

[gtar100]

37. Gee, that oughta save the commuter rail industry.

Compassion and ethics are just far too expensive for capitalism, I guess. Profits before people, after all.