Utah boy hid, fearing 'someone would steal him' (Rescued 11 Year Old)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8313299/

The 11-year-old boy lost for four days in a mountain wilderness did just what he had been taught, his parents said Wednesday: He stayed on his trail and avoided strangers, even though they were searching for him.

<snip>

The parents said Brennan had seen people searching for him on horse and ATV, but avoided them because of what he had been taught.

“He stayed on the trail, he avoided strangers,� Jody Hawkins said. “His biggest fear, he told me, was that someone would steal him.�

They said they hadn’t talked to Brennan and his four siblings about what they should do about strangers if they were lost. “This may have come to a faster conclusion had we discussed that,� Toby Hawkins said.

I was fascinated by this cause I used to teach kids martial arts. These topics would of course be discussed and while I cautioned kids about bullies, abusers and kidnap scenarios I also tried to teach them to use their head and common sense about what to do if they were lost. Looks like this kid learned only 1 side of the lesson. BTW, the parents do mention in the story that this kid is mentally immature. Thank goodness his fear didn't cost him his life.

[medeak]

1. he was born very premature

may not be on MSM.. but not retarded but delayed emotionally.

edited to say.. (we get local SLC news) his electrolytes were normal meaning he was drinking water no matter what he said. His Dad gave him instructions last summer after last boy scout was lost at same camp on how to survive. It seems to have paid off.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

17. Born premature...

My nephew was born 4 months premature, he barely survived, and while all of his organs and his brain development are essentially okay, he is certainly delayed emotionally. He is a year older than my son but seems a few years behind him socially. He's smart and not mentally retarded -- very sharp kid -- but I imagine he would behave much like this Hawkins boy if he were lost; he would be hesitant and afraid, and might even hide from his rescuers. That part IS a little bizarre, but who knows what the kid was thinking.

[iconoclastic cat]

2. Two things we must teach kids:

1. 80% of the time, the victim knows the attacker; this doesn't mean stop trusting people, but you must undersand what is not appropriate and/or dangerous behavior in another person.
2. If you are "grabbed," throw the world's biggest screaming and kicking fit regardles of what the person says.

[eissa]

3. Heartbreaking

How many parents (myself included) have repeatedly told their children about avoiding strangers -- especially those who claim they only want to help them -- that we've scared our kids to the point where their lives could be in danger.

[Big Kahuna]

15. I nominated this for "greatest"

because of your reply "we've scared our kids to the point where their lives could be in danger."

I have two children ages 9 and 12. I have spent much of the past 12 years as a stay-at-home dad. We lived in a community with a way-above-average incidence of child sexual abuse. We have basically kept our kids on a very short leash the entire time, out of fear.

The fear, I think is not totally unjustified. My wife and I have volunteered at the local Head Start and the local elementary school, and know personally so many little kids who have been molested by uncles, "mom's current boyfriend" or other "men" in their lives. In a particularly horrific case, the local slum-lord (now in prison for child molestation, and recently denied parole) was preying on his tenant's children.

We are living in much nicer and quieter surroundings now. Our children are older, and really need more freedom. I think back to when I was my son's age (12 yrs). We used to set out on 10 mile bike rides in the morning, and not be home till dusk, and our parents wouldn't worry too much about us. That is unthinkable now, but those experiences were so central to the development of my character (ok, stop laughing!) In contrast, I let my son ride 1/4 to the grocery store or the town common, and I practically call out the national guard if he's gone more than 20 minutes.

I have closed my business, and am going to spend 100% of my time with my kids this summer. Hopefully we can find a happy medium. If I meet with any success, I'll start a papanoid-parents-anonymous blog or something. :)

[medeak]

24. am having a problem understanding your post?

nominated as "we've scared our kids to the point where their lives could be in danger."

But you have quit your job as paranoid about your children?

Also to everyone.. I have a real problem with this unfortunate case being made political.

From the get go this little guy looked a bit pathetic in his photos and it turned out he's emotionally delayed. Let's let it go.

[uppityperson]

4. OK to talk to stangers, don't GO with them or give them personal info

That's what I always told my child. Of course you can talk with strangers. Just don't ever go anywhere or give personal information about youself, where you live, etc.

My child's definition of a stranger was someone he had never talked with. As soon as the stranger said hi, and was friendly, he/she was no longer considered a stranger by my child. And besides, everyone is a stranger until you get to know them and of course you talk with people you don't know. So we went with what to not talk about and to never, ever, ever GO anywhere with one.

[Sequoia]

12. A stranger is a friend you haven't met

.....from some kid's song.

[msongs]

5. so how did he become "lost" exactly, nobody is saying....doh

the kid is in the middle of a public campground surrounded by dozens or hundreds of people, and he just suddenly ends up 5 miles away covered in mud. maybe that is the real story here.

now how does a kid do that? none of the media stories ever mention this in between all the moaning and praising the power of prayer.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[drmom]

7. Didn't another boy disappear from this same camp last year?

Don't think I'll be sending any of my kids there...

[medeak]

10. they are saying..

that judging how far this kid walked (on the trail btw) the search perimeter was too small for child missing last year.

[RamboLiberal]

20. Also they assumed he'd go downhill - instead he went up

One thing I've heard mentioned when you are out camping or hiking with the kids, make sure they all have a very loud whistle with them and know to blow it if they get lost.

Also there are some great small keychain LED lights that are fairly powerful these days with long battery life that might just show up at night. Attach to the whistle.

[medeak]

8. parents say he doesn't even remember

going camping

edited to say.. it wasn't a public campground. It was a boy scout camp that was used only by them.

We have them same where I live...remote area just used for girl scouts.

[annabanana]

11. that's easy... I did that, years ago

My brother and I went for a walk from the campground at Grand Coulee Dam. I was 12 and my brother would have been 10 1/2. (this would have been in 1962) I told Mom that we would go to the top of "that" hill right there (a small rise behind the campsite).
We did, and from the top of that rise, we could see a much more interesting "hill" behind it and we decided to go to the top of THAT one. We did.
When we tried to climb back down,we discovered that it was HARDER than going up, so we circled around to try to come down the other side of it, which turned out to be a longer trip than we anticipated.
About two hours later, we got to the dirt road that lead to the campsite and were headed back to our tent, dusty, thirsty and tired, and we were surrounded by solicitous folks who informed us that we'd BETTER CHECK IN WITH OUR PARENTS, PRONTO, because they were worried and had sent a couple of Rangers out looking for us.

He and I didn't wander again until we were in our 20's.

[Lars39]

18. From what I read, the dad trusted him to get from point A to point B,

by himself. If the dad was a Scouter, he should have known not to let
his kid wander around by himself; the child should have had a "buddy".

[gorbal]

31. Hey I've gotten lost in the woods trying to pee before

And I'm a grown woman, I can imagine it could easily happen to a child.

[artemisia1]

41. It can happen...

I was a Boy Scout and Cub Scout and I got separated more than once from my Troop and Pack. It was through no fault of either the scoutmasters or myself. Stuff happens in the woods despite your very best efforts. The only way to totally avoid this happening in one scout out of a thousand is to cancel scouting for everybody. Glad he's safe. Most are found within a short period of time and those who are not, unfortunately, probably met with foul play.

[Horse with no Name]

45. Paraphrased

I heard on one of the shows that he was doing something and the scout troop went ahead of him...with the directions to "catch up with us".
When he went to rejoin them, he couldn't find anyone--a couple of wrong turns later, then he was lost.
I'm glad for the good outcome on this though--and the fact that he was slightly developmentally delayed certainly explains alot.

[Kraklen]

6. fishy fishy shit.

This kid is a boy scout, right?

Even in the cub scouts we were taught to stay in one place and try to signal for help if lost in the wilderness.

What's this kid doing out in the woods without proper training? Somewhere along the line there's an irresponsible adult.

[medeak]

21. think that's too judgemental

raised two brilliant humans. Lost one who crawled into cupboard to take a nap. We freaked out for several hours.

another one we had search all over neighborhood as lost him while unloading groceries. He was inside house entire time.. didn't realize he had learned how to turn door knob.

[Kraklen]

25. I assume your kids were toddlers.

There's really leagues of differences though between toddlers and 11 year old boy scouts.

[medeak]

27. yes.. but this child

is very emotionally slow.

Do you have kids?

[Dervill Crow]

30. My son unlatched the gate and managed to roll my pickup out

across the street halfway up the neighbor's driveway when he was 3. I was doing dishes and he was right outside the window. A neighbor came to the door and asked if I knew where my son was; I said yeah, in the sandbox. Then I saw the truck with the top of that little blond head just barely visible above the steering wheel. He still remembers working really hard to get it into neutral. A year or so later he rode his tricycle four big suburban blocks up to the elementary school where I was working at a school fair. His dad was watching him that day. He knew he wasn't supposed to go anywhere without a parent or older sibling, but in his mind it was okay because he was going somewhere where he would find me and his sisters.

By the time he was in school he was better at understanding both the spirit and the letter of the law. I don't understand, though, how an 11-year-old boy scout would be alone without a buddy. Thank God/dess he's okay! My son survived to adulthood with (at least to my knowledge!) no other close calls. Let's hope the same can be said of this little Utah guy.

[medeak]

22. see post above.

am getting all the local SLC news. Father said days ago he instructed son how to survive if anything happened after boy was lost at same camp last year.

It paid off imo

[Mr Creosote]

23. You are right

I read somewhere that it was an hour before anyone noticed he was missing. I'm an Akela and I took my cub scouts on camp this past weekend - and no way would it take me that long to spot one of them was missing.

[TeeYiYi]

38. No. Not right. . .

. . . he's NOT a boy scout and according to initial local reports, he's not even a cub scout. I think that's a fabrication of the national media that has been allowed to go unchecked. He was just the friend of the little brother of one of the older boy scouts whose dad was a scout leader. This was a camp set up for 14 year old boy scouts to earn some merit badges in the rugged terrain of the High Uintas. The two younger boys were alone at the climbing wall on the perimeter of the camp site. The friend who is Brennan's age, left Brennan to go back to camp and get some dinner. He left his friend, who is mentally and socially delayed, alone to find his own way back to camp. I don't think we need to be looking for someone to string up here. It was an accident. Technically, I guess you could say that the friend's father was to blame, but don't you think that man knows that? If they hadn't found Brennan alive, that man would never have forgiven himself. The 11 year old friend who got hungry and left Brennan alone . . . how do you suppose his life would have played out if his friend had ended up dead? What about his own father? Should we blame him for letting his son go to scout camp without him there to supervise his every move? This is just how life goes, with twists and turns and unexpected pitfalls. It's like a game of Chutes and Ladders — sometimes you hit the big slide and sometimes you get another chance. Nothing fishy about it.

TYY

[daleo]

9. Kids are taught to be very wary of people these days

This is the most obvious drawback. I think it also creates a general sense of paranoia in society. I don't know which came first - the paranoia or the causes for it. When I was a teenager, in the 70's we thought nothing of hitchhiking around the country (Canada in my case). Nowadays you don't see much of that, even in Canada (although I do recall seeing a bit of a revival in the mid 90's or so, while driving cross-country).

[annabanana]

13. I think that the deterioration in the reporting

has fostered a paranoia that is unwarranted. When the murdered and missing are covered blanket style, people get the impression that there are murderers and kidnappers around every corner. Hence the overprotective panic.

[daleo]

14. I think you are very right about that.

The news networks almost always have a missing woman or missing child story front and center. They are rarely presented with any wider perspective. People pick it up and it becomes normative to be overprotective.

When our son was young we let him walk the three or so blocks to school rather than drive him. I am sure lots of people thought we were irresponsible for doing so.

[gorbal]

32. Our paranoia is more dangerous that who we are scared of.

It's that same fear that keeps people from helping homeless strangers or talking to swaggering young men on the street. People are taught to be scared and that is how they bring up their children, building up walls between themselves and others until they are brought down forcefully by tragedy.

But I go off....:)

[American Tragedy]

36. Well, many of us have been burned, and burned badly.

It's very natural to want to protect oneself, especially after being hurt, and after seeing others suffer for being excessively trusting.

[gorbal]

39. It isn't natural

It ISN'T natural in the way it's manifested itself in our society.
I'm sorry you've been hurt but all I can say is join the club.

[American Tragedy]

40. Can you be more specific?

It's difficult for me to judge, since I'm actually reserved and introverted by nature.

[gorbal]

42. Good god don't make up your mind based on what I say

I'm, speaking more of society in general than in an individual basis. Our isolation from each other is more dangerous in the long run.

I used to be too scared sometimes to help that person lying down in the street in his own vomit. Then one day getting really sick in the middle of the street in LA, and nobody would help me. Here I was puking my guts out and having a major case of vertigo, and people just walked on by, afraid of me, or thinking I was some drunk drug addict who deserved her lot in life. That really woke me up.

I now work in a psych ward with those same people everyone else is scared of all day everyday. I swear I am a different woman now.

:)

[customerserviceguy]

44. You've got a good point

There's another angle to this that I can see from having lived in Utah since January. Certainly not all, hopefully not most, but a heck of a lot of Mormons teach their kids to avoid people that might not be LDS. This even extends to who their kids play with on the playground at school.

On the other hand, this thread was the only place where I found out that this boy had developmental problems. I guess more than the usual supervision is required in these cases.

[redacted]

16. On GMA Dad said kid was "immature--emotionally slow"

and I wonder what that's about -- what causes that?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

19. Read above: he was born premature

I don't know how preemie he was, but my nephew is the same way.

[DemoTex]

28. My youngest brother was severe preemie in 1963. Born at 4.5 pounds.

He is now one of the highest paid radiologists in Atlanta. Because he is good.

[Cocoa]

26. if the ACLU had their way, this boy would be dead

that's Michael Savage's insightful take on this story.

[Ilsa]

34. I missed it...what is that all about? eom

[Cocoa]

35. follow this logic...

the ACLU argued against the Boy Scouts' exclusion of gays.

this boy survived because of skills he learned in the Boy Scouts.

ergo, the irrefutable conclusion that the ACLU wanted this boy to die.

Hard to argue with this, I'd say.

[Ilsa]

37. Got it, thanks... I've had a glass of wine and I've been sleep

deprived, so it figures it had to be 'splained to me.

[LisaL]

47. However, since the boy is not gay, this logic makes no sense.

[Dervill Crow]

29. Self-delete

Sorry - this is a dupe.

[Ilsa]

33. I have a developmentally delayed child, and there is no way

he'd be on a camping trip with so many other children that it's hard to keep track of them all. No way he'd be there without me or another close relative who'd keep a close eye on him.

I know that sounds ridiculous to parents of "regular" kids, but you can't take a time out when watching developmentally delayed or grossly emotionally delayed children. If you do, they'll wander off or something similar. The hypervigilance wears one out, but it's necessary to prevent tragedy.

[LisaL]

48. He went with his friend and friend's family, as I understand it.

[Skittles]

43. I don't think the boy's fears are that unfounded

he's probably heard all the missing kid news

[EmmaP]

46. Curiosity

Out of curiosity, does anyone know where I can find stats on missing/abducted kids in the 1960s-1970s and today? I'm wondering if there has been that much of an increase or if the media just hones in on it more these days.