US general says troops question support

[Justice]

Front page above the fold
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/06/24/us_general_says_troops_question_support/

I don't like it that THIS is the headline from yesterday's meeting.

WASHINGTON -- The top US military commander in the Middle East warned yesterday that troops are questioning whether the American public supports the Iraq war and implored political leaders to engage in a frank discussion about how to keep the country behind a mission that the armed forces believe is ''a war worth fighting."

Army General John Abizaid said that without that support, the military's ability to prevail against Iraqi insurgents and Islamic extremists will be at serious risk.

''When I look back here, at what I see is happening in Washington, within the Beltway, I've never seen the lack of confidence greater," Abizaid told the Senate Armed Services Committee, where he testified along with Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, Air Force General Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Army General George Casey, the commander of coalition troops in Iraq. The group also appeared before the House Armed Services Committee.

''I can tell you that when my soldiers ask me the question whether or not they've got support from the American people . . . that worries me," Abizaid told senators. ''And they're starting to do that. And when the people that we're training, Iraqis and Afghans, start asking me whether or not we have the staying power to stick with them, that worries me, too."

[ReadTomPaine]

1. I rather think the troops want precisely the same as we do here.

To pull the hell out of the quicksand and come home where they belong.

[Born Free]

10. Americans support the troops..

Many have doubts about the mission, including the reason for being there, the goals or the effort the bush coward's gang used to prepare for the current situation- in general Americans support the troops, perhaps not so much the leaders that got the troops into this quagmire

[Justice]

12. Kennedy was great yesterday

his exchange with Rummy was amazing.

Kennedy replied to Rummy's statements by reinforcing the position that the blame is not laid on the troops, but on the mis-leaders for bungling the whole thing - going in, being there, post war.

[wakeme2008]

2. Rove at work

If you notice it is a General saying these things. Does anybody think a General would really say,, the troops want to come HOME....

[saigon68]

19. The General is Rove's Butt Boy and Bitch

I saw the sorry ass operformance on TV last nite

Disgusting!!

[rocktivity]

33. DING DING DING! Saigon68, you're our grand prize winner!

I saw (General John Abizaid's) sorry-ass performance on TV last nite...Disgusting!

"I can tell you that when my soldiers ask me the question whether or not they've got support from the American people...that worries me," Abizaid told senators...

Better you should be worried about being caught between underequipped, unarmored troops and overpaid, uncontrollable mercenaries, General. There's money for building permanent bases and giving bonuses to defense contractors--why are YOUR soliders puting scrap metal on their vehicles and buying their own flak jackets? Why aren't you screaming bloody murder about THAT? The troops have the American people's support--it's the policies of your commander-in-chump that are at the root of your problems!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Spinzonner]

3. Do they feel supported by the Republican administration

who can't seem to get enough armored vehicles or protective personal armor to the theatre ?

who didnt put enough troops on the ground even though they were told by the military leadership that they would need more ?

who scale back and starve veterans benefits while speaking out of both sides of their mouth about 'supporting the troops' ?

[WildClarySage]

11. who refuse to consider an exit plan? who continue to experiment with

different back door drafts? Who prosecute them for torturing prisoners when they were ordered to do so from the highest levels?

Why doesn't the administration support the troops?

[B Calm]

4. I been telling people those yellow magnets were not enough &

they need to enlist!

[ClintonTyree]

5. They have to believe it...

they're brainwashed from the moment of enlistment to believe that the United States is always right and their commander in chief is the be all and end all of their existence. They have no idea of their mission, other than some nebulous "war on terra".
The Brass is trying to lay the blame on the American people for the shortsighted, idiotic planning of the bush administration. When you're lied to every inch of the way, told we'll be greeted as liberators, "mission accomplished", the war will pay for itself, they'll be dancing in the streets etc. the American public gets a little PO'd. If this asshole wants to blame someone for the situation in Iraq, he need look no further than his commander in chief. HE'S the one responsible for the quagmire we're in now, not the American people.

[atreides1]

24. Must be something wrong with me

I never bought into that line of crap, that the United States is always right, but then again I used to read when I was growing up.

History is an interesting subject, and one that I have enjoyed since the 4th grade. I have read about Wounded Knee and the Sand Creek Massacre, being part Hawaiian I learned of the illegal overthrow of
a sovereign Nation, only because people of color ruled over whites, mainly Americans.

I have read about the promise that was made to the people of the Phillipines, the promise of freedom if they would help the US in it's
war against the Spanish, and when the Spanish were finally defeated, the US then turned its gunsights on the Filipino people and told them that they were not able to rule themselves based on the color of their skin.

I have read how the US convinced the South Vietnamese government to
boycott elections that had been agreed upon after WWII, and how the US lied about an unprovoked attack, when the US had been performing
covert operations in the north, a lie that resulted in the deaths of over 58,000 Americans and millions of Vietnamese.

And then there was my war, Operation Desert Storm. Yes the Iraqis did
invade a sovereign nation, but Kuwait wasn't totally innocent, it was
suspected that Kuwait had been slant drilling. And when a young Kuwaiti girl testified before Congress how she had seen Iraqi soldiers take incubators out of a hospital and left the "babies" in them to die on a cold floor, it motivated us. But it isn't until after the war that we find out that the very same girl was the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States and that she was with her parents in Washigton D.C.

Maybe some of the troops should have spent some time reading their history, instead of playing shoot 'em up video games.

[Benhurst]

6. The problem is, General Abizaid, the conquest

of Iraq was illegal and immoral and the occupation doesn't deserve support. Bring the troops home!

[mom cat]

7. We heard the same garbage about Vietnam when the people

finally rose up against that unjust war. In response to this nonsense we have to keep saying: "we support the troops, bring them home". And we need to keep up pressure for real assistance to the troops such as medical care, psychological care and help with the benefits that they were promised when they were conned into enrolling.

I think the real question is whether this administration really supports the troops. Sending under armed men and women into a quagmire based on lies with no real exit strategy shows that the administration thinks of our troops as nothing but cannon fodder for their ideological passions.

[zanne]

26. I remember. You can almost see the gears spinning...

In a desperate attempt to bolster support for an unpopular (and illegal) war, the sponsors of Operation Iraqi Freedom are using a Vietnam-era tactic that their young white men won't remember. Very soon, they'll be saying that "liberals are aiding and abetting " the enemy with all their "anti-American" talk. Any day now, a young soldier returning from Iraq will say he got spit on as soon as he stepped off the plane. It worked well for them in the 60's, and they're not above recycling their propaganda.

[ChrisK]

8. Maybe it's time the General level with the troops

and tell these poor men and women WHY people at home are doubting this war..a war started based on lies told to them by the President.

You can only lie to someone for so long till they catch on and I think thats what's happening in Iraq and the backlash will be rough when it finally sinks in for those men and women.

The line about "a war worth fighting" makes me wonder who is saying this...The troops? maybe, if I were out there I would want to think I was fighting for a purpose too but still...there are questions not being addressed and weather I believe in the war or not dose not make those questions (Downing Street minutes, no weapons of mass destruction, no Bin laden) go away.

A mistake will only BE a mistake if we don't learn from it.

[hadrons]

9. what does Abizaid consider 'support'?

more help and better equipment or us not saying bad things on message boards?

[w13rd0]

13. No, I do not support this war...

...that was launched by liars and lunatics. I do not support this "war" one damned bit.

[rooboy]

14. Is this an army or a little league team?

I find it rather amusing that a rough, tough General would be whining that Mommy and Daddy aren't cheering the team loud enough.

And secondly, the army doesn't decide which wars are "worth fighting" - that's the American public's job. Otherwise a military coup has taken place under America's nose...

[MSgt213]

15. Way to spin what the troops are really saying. Mission not Support

Troops are actually questioning their own mission and lack of support for and ending of that mission. The best way the American people can support the troops is to put intense pressure on the government to figure out a way to bring them out of harms way. What shows a total lack of support the troops is a disinterested public who allows any administration to throw their lives away needlessly through arrogance and incompetence and leaves them stranded in a hostile country with no relief in sight. That is the problem General.

[maddezmom]

16. Abizaid should be asking the * admin is they support the troops?

WP - Funds for Health Care of Veterans $1 Billion Short
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1577112

Boston Globe: Marines Shown to be lacking Basic Equipment
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1568060

Dad picks up $600 tab to get Marine battle ready
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1561689

[sendero]

17. There is no limit to how low...

.... this pack of liars and failures will stoop.

This is a clear attempt to spin lack of popular belief that the "war" effort makes sense for America into a lack of "support for the troops".

This pack of fools realizes that this thing is slipping away from them, and they are putting up their usual coordinated, multi-pronged spin effort.

Ultimately it will fail, just as their little misadventure has already failed - it's been a months since the window of opportunity to achieve democracy in Iraq was open, IMHO. It's over, but they are going to press on because the stakes (their reputations) are so high - not for any other reason.

[bribri16]

18. Hell no this war does not have my support. It never should have

happened and the troops need to understand this as well. It's not them, it's the war. And I refuse to allow the phony issue of supporting the troops blackmail me into saying otherwise!!! And that needs to be told to the gernarals and the troops on the ground. If they are worried about the support of the people back home, get the hell out of Iraq.

[Solly Mack]

20. I can almost see the flag waving and smell apple pie cooking

.. the low hum of the star spangled banner in the background...while little children play on a field of green...

NOT

What liars. What utterly contemptible liars.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

21. The General is concerned about what is happening "inside Washington".

I got news homey, it's happening all over this land.

[Orsino]

22. I'm sure that if we dig around...

...we can find a similar story from the Vietnam era.

The general's got it bass-ackwards, though. We are questioning how and why the plutocrats are deploying our troops to kill and die. It's not our job to support wars just because PNAC wants them.

[Ganja Ninja]

23. "Do we have the support of the American people?" my ass!

More like "Does our government really support us?" with the half-assed way the neocons have gone at this war. Not enough troops, Not enough body armor, not enough armored humvee's, too many repeated combat tours. I'd be wondering what's wrong too if I had drank the Bush Koo-laid.

[bpilgrim]

25. "the armed forces believe is ''a war worth fighting." - yeah, right...

more ROVE BS.

their's is NOT to reason WHY, their's is but to DO & DIE.

just ask RUMMY!

Bring OUR Troops HOME, NOW!

peace

[Javaman]

27. This general sounds a bit whiny to me...

How about this? replace our glorious fuckhead leader* then perhaps there will be some moderate messure of support.

[Coventina]

28. Fucking emotional blackmail....won't work on ME!!!

I've been emotionally abused in personal relationships, this is a classic tactic.

Fuck 'em.

They are really desperate. Good.

[necso]

29. Uh, general,

what some of us lack is (any) faith in the high-command -- both civilian and military. Because it sure seems like the military leaders who were (and are) better prepared to deal with this mess have been given the heave-ho -- or have been (mostly) shut the hell up... And it sures seems that many of the remaining "leaders" spend an awful lot of time echoing neocon talking points and otherwise conducting psy-war ops against the people from whom this "support" is expected.

I have a hard time, general, believing that Ike, or Patton, or Bradley (among many others) would have gone along with such piss-poor, sure-to-fail planning (including allocating inadequate resources -- and pushing blindly forward when one half of the "pincers" movement got canceled), half-assed support of the troops in the field, excessive use of contractors in military roles, leaving of the lower ranks to bear responsibility for the failures of command, etc, etc. And instead of trying to misdirect the blame for this mess (and the failures to come) to citizens' unwillingness to blindly follow such blatant incompetence (and self-serving toadying), look to these and other root causes as reasons for your failures.

Frankly, general, some of us think that there is no effing way that you and your peers, along with the civilian command, are going to pull anything out of this mess but a costly (and avoidable) disaster.

But if you guys can come up with an even half-way plausible plan for just significantly reducing the violence and anarchy (putting aside achieving any larger, reasonable, cost-worthwhile war objectives), then maybe some of us will be willing to take another look. (Wishful thinking doesn't count, BTW -- we've had enough of that.) However, in the meantime, you will have to bear with us thinking that the best thing that we can do for our troops is to pull them away from where they are victim, in such a direct and costly way, to your, your peers', and the civilian command's "leadership", "stewardship" and "military skills" ... 'cause we aren't seeing any of these things from you... And, please, spare us the bs.

...

Frankly, general, I wouldn't trade the whole damn lot of you for an old pair of Ike's socks (or Hack's old jock-strap). I don't recall Ike spending his time blaming others -- but rather winning the war.

[B Calm]

30. The giggling murderer is going to talk to the American people

about the war one night next week. My guess is he'll point his nasty finger at the democrats for his failure in Iraq. All I want now is for the war crimes to be prosecuted against this son of a bitch and the rest of this crime family, right now!!

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

42. yep, it's time... check the link in my sig

[donkeyotay]

31. They've launched Operation Scapegoat

Forget the lies told, the ignorant, arrogant civilian command. Forget there was no planning, implying that they got what they wanted - an occupation. Forget the privatization of Iraqi wealth, the corrupt contracting. Forget the torture condoned from the highest levels and then blamed on a few grunts. Forget the lack of material support to our troops, while we are bankrupted by politically connected contractors. Forget the way television helped tell all these lies, even letting the Army conduct psychological operations against us, instead of the enemy. Forget the chaos and looting, forget kicking the Baathists out. Forget the coalition of the bribed and the lack of UN and allies support. Forget about it.

Now, in Operation Scapegoat, the only thing wrong with this war is that you folks have not quietly gone along with this disaster, probably because your freedoms have not been sufficiently curtailed.

Reminds me of GM - they didn't want CAFE standards, they lobbyied gummit, got what they wanted, and then got their asses kicked by Toyota. If they hadn't gotten what they wanted and had been forced by democratic governance to do the right thing, they wouldn't be in the sorry state they're in today. Same for our military/government. If democracy had prevailed, we could have saved them from themselves. How dare they blame us for not being able to stop them from getting what they wanted.

1000!
:toast:

[Jack Rabbit]

32. This is just part of the regime's new propaganda offensive

I support the troops. I want them brought home safe and soon. I do not want them misused for a colonial misadventure. I do not support the crooked and incompetent regime that sent them to Iraq while lying to the world about the urgency of doing so.

Iraq should never have been invaded. It had nothing to do with fighting terrorism or national security. I am no more likely to say the invasion and occupation of Iraq is worthwhile than I am to say the earth is flat.

Our combat troops are, for the most part, brave men and women worthy of the highest respect and honor. They deserve better than to be sent to die for the presumed right of transnational corporations to expropriate the wealth of the Iraqi people while being told that it was to defend freedom and spread democracy.

Those at the highest levels of power who sent our troops on this bogus mission and told them such lies are worthy only of contempt. They deserve to be hauled before a court charged with war crimes and crimes and crimes against humanity, to be convicted and to spend the rest of their lives in prison.

[trogdor]

35. How about "support our troops...or else!"

I wonder what kind of message that might send if it appeared on a bumpersticker.

[leesa]

34. Some of us aren't as gullible as you are, Sir.

I will never support an illegal war.

[Karla Marx]

36. Why do the American people

hate America?

[Karla Marx]

37. I guess it's the American people's fault

we are losing in Iraq.

[jayfish]

38. Dear General Abizaid.

Let me start of by saying that I support our troops. That being said, I could give two shits whether or not you think this is "a war worth fighting". The Pentagon does not dictate US foreign policy.

Jay

[BiggJawn]

39. The Mission is BULLSHIT.

I hope somebody picks THAT up and spreads it around freeperland.

I want them to come home. I'm sick of hearing that they're getting killed for what amounts to a LIE, and when pressed about his LIE, their CIC just goes into his "Goo-Gah Freedom's on the MARCH" mode.

And more die every day. For a BULLSHIT mission that the only reason the troops believe in it is because their higher-up believe in it, and in the military, you have NO room for independant thought.

[Xipe Totec]

40. When did they start caring what I think?

Did I miss something?

:shrug:

[sidpleasant]

41. "my soldiers ask me the question whether or not they've got support"

Bullshit. When was the last time Abizaid spoke to anyone below the rank of colonel?

My father said that the mark of an outstanding officer was that he made sure his troops were fed before he ate. I guarantee that when Abizaid drops in on units in Iraq he has fully armored vehicles waiting and the best body armor money can buy. He probably flies around in a comfy military version of a Gulfstream jet accompanied by fighter planes, blissfully unthreatened by the pesky roadside IEDs and suicide bombers that slaughter our troops every day.

Politicians - dressed - as - generals like Abizaid aren't fit to lick the mud off the boots of real soldiers.

[confludemocrat]

43. You're a loser Abizaid right down there with Wastemoreland-and a liar

A crybaby failure for a bunch of crybabies who are bigger failures. You've already lost the war and are a criminal

[AlCzervik]

44. gee is almost sounds like he's saying everyone should shut up

[samsingh]

45. this is more propoganda

the bush liars at work again.

i'm sure that not all the troops want to be in the war.