US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo and Iraq, Afghanistan: UN source

[maddezmom]

GENEVA (AFP) - Washington has for the first time acknowledged to the United Nations that prisoners have been tortured at US detention centres in Guantanamo Bay, as well as Afghanistan and Iraq, a UN source said.


The acknowledgement was made in a report submitted to the UN Committee against Torture, said a member of the ten-person panel, speaking on on condition of anonymity.

"They are no longer trying to duck this, and have respected their obligation to inform the UN," the Committee member told AFP.

"They they will have to explain themselves (to the Committee). Nothing should be kept in the dark."

UN sources said it was the first time the world body has received such a frank statement on torture from US authorities.

more: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050624/pl_afp/unustortureguantanamo_050624132300

[Spazito]

1. Hmmm, I wonder what part of the additional photos and video of

the torture at Abu Graib being released has something to do with this sudden 'admission', a whole hell of a lot, imo.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

84. Yes very curious timing isn't it....

[rodeodance]

88. yes--the timing is so curious!!--not just a 'few bad apples?

[maddezmom]

87. June 30 th is the deadline

[ET Awful]

2. Not enough.

The information refers only to low-ranking soldiers who supposedly acted on their own. It doesn't take into account information that's come to light such as memos from Alberto Gonzalez justifying torture and stating why detainees were not subject to Geneva protections.

[peacetalksforall]

3. Somewhere in this country a 'Bush is the lord' follower is suffering a

terrible anxiety.

How many millions denied that we tortured?

[cybildisobedience]

35. Somehow, I doubt that...

in their mind, it still makes perfect sense, and they are still enormously grateful that a God-fearin' Christian is in the White House.

[calimary]

54. Perhaps if someone is "God-fearin'" - he has a reason to be.

Excuse me, but the God I learned about in Catholic school, from the get-go, wasn't a God to be feared. Rather, God was a loving, caring father who sent His Son as a Shepherd, Guardian, and Messiah for our benefit. The God I learned about is a loving, benevolent, all-wise, all-wonderful, all-comforting, all-welcoming, all-inclusive. I don't fear God - any more than I feared my own dad. I love God as a Father (Who loves me in return). I would hope I will never commit any sin so grievous that it would lead me to be in fear of God.

Every time I hear that smarmy phrase, especially as it applies to bush, I always immediately think - yep, if I were guilty of the shit he's got on his conscience, I'd be pretty afraid of God, too. I'd fear God a LOT, as a matter of fact, and I sure wouldn't be prancing around all over the nation and the world, like I'm some sort of "mini-savior" or personal emissary of the Lord.

So in a way, I think bush certainly SHOULD be a God-fearin' individual. He's got a LOT of God's wrath to fear, IMO. I'd almost say I wouldn't want to be around when he gets to the Pearly Gates, but I think I'd actually kinda like it. If he doesn't get justice in this life, it WILL be served there.

[Supersedeas]

42. maybe just maybe torture in the name of Lord Bush is a-ok with his throng

[LeftHander]

4. splat splat splat splat.....

the shit is hitting the fan now....

This is huge and will end up in a REAL outrafge by the American people.

The Bushies under Rove are attempting to cover the issue with the recent "take the fight to the terrorists" Rove's comments about Democrats were perfec tly timed to attempt damage control. But they are DONE...

How transparent can they be....

As if being stong and ready to wage war justifies the use of torture.


There is NEVER a justification for torture.

[Mechatanketra]

13. I can't share your optimism.

There will be outrage among thousands of people who happen to be Americans. Mostly those (like us) who were already aware of this and already outraged.

There will not be any noticeable outrage from "the American people" as a consensus.

Remember Abu Ghraib? There was outrage over that, sure. People were outraged that they had to see it. Joe Sixpack wouldn't have cared if we were castrating people over their as long as he didn't have to look at the pictures; the "wrongdoer" in the end was considered to be the media for even vaguely mentioning it.

I said it in the early days of the war, and it bears repeating: if default expectations of mainstream America's basic human decency weren't vastly overestimated, none of this could have happened. We wouldn't be in Iraq, we wouldn't have a Gitmo prison, and Bush wouldn't be office; all of these things are possible because "X is an unspeakable wrong" isn't a sufficiently compelling argument against X in this country.

[LeftHander]

40. yes...but....

The filth this administration keeps laying on the American people keeps building and building and it is OUR duty to keep telling those that want to keep sticking their heads up their ass that what is happening is WRONG. Eventually they will be forced to DEAL WITH IT. I actually think that time is quickly coming.

Bush will literally tell the American people that it is okay to torture to get information. The problem is that information is really not reliable as we all know.

He actually thinks peopel will stick with him (some will) when he shows everyone that America is a THUG.

You keep throwing shit at people and eventually they will ask it to be stopped. the only way that it gets stopped is to fix the source problem. Peole ARE going to have to deciede.


Rememebr this is the first time the "T" word has been used up to now it has been...."abuse" and "pressure". I think we will see now that those word were poor represntatives of what really was going on.

[Kilroy003]

44. Is that as opposed to a

FAKE outrafge?

I'm just joshin' ya.

[maddezmom]

55. good one

:D

[Jack Rabbit]

5. 'Nothing should be kept in the dark'

Good luck. That will be a first for the Bush regime. A belief in transparency is not a characteristic of Bush or the neocons.

"They said it was a question of isolated cases, that there was nothing systematic and that the guilty were in the process of being punished."

When the Committee hold hearings next year, they should bring up the Gonzales memos. This is not a question of isolated cases; torture is Bush regime policy.

[truebrit71]

6. My guess is the pictures that will be released are particularly...

...gruesome and they are trying to get out in front of them as best they can....

Get ready for the obligatory "these were actions of a few low-level soldiers and not as a result of direct orders" bullshit....

[habitual]

9. Bad Apples, here we go again

get ready to hear the following phrases repeated hundreds of times by repubs:

Bad Apples
Low Level
Isolated Acts
Few Incidents
Not Systematic

I gotta say, if the tree has so many bad apples in it, well then the tree must be rotten!

[saigon68]

98. apparently THERE ARE A LOT OF MILITARY THUGS AND HOODLUMS

[0007]

100. THERE ARE A LOT OF WHITE HOUSE THUGS AND HOODLUMS

[saigon68]

101. Lot of Hoodlums feeding off each other

Smashing testicles ---- pulling out finger nails etc

Anally raping screaming 16 year olds in front of their fathers, to obtain confessions (see the Taguba report)

[Ripley]

7. Nazimiming Vomitfilledputridugly pustulantevilpnacers.

And the horse they rode in on can't hide much longer.

[Judi Lynn]

18. All too easy for you to say!

:hi:

[ckramer]

8. Bush gave America a bad name!

and Republicans are behind this man.

[KansDem]

10. We have a 1st-world military and a 3rd-world government...

I dread what these new videos/photos will bring...

[jayfish]

11. Dear Richard Durbin,

Please rescind your apology. Do not be afraid for you speak the truth and you have been vindicated.

Jay

[DearAbby]

15. I weep for what we have become

I am in prolonged conversation with 3 neo-cons on a message board...they have bent over backwards to try rationalize why we SHOULD be treating these people this way, and trying to mesh it with their peace Christian beliefs...Rap dancing twisting, they try to claim that it is all very legal and just.

I weep for this country and what we have become, because there are still those in this country that still lock-step behind this president as they would the second coming of Christ.

Senator Durbin, and the whole Democrat Party, please stand in solidarity denounce this. Not just to wake people up...because it will...But because it is the right thing to do.


:cry:

[whatever4]

26. I'm like you on this one

But I abandoned the board I used to go to, full of "those" types of people.

You tell them torture is wrong, always. They say, "Well, what if there was someone kidnapped and you only had *so* long to find out where, or she'd die, would it be okay to torture then?" And variations of that theme. Every time, there's always one. And then it becomes a simple case of expanding from there, as far as establishing when and where and why. So sad. I agree, ever since it came out, I haven't been the same. Sounds dumb, I know. But I bet I'm not the only one. Those pictures come out? I won't be looking at them.

I got so angry, permanently angry, at some folks, idiots, on that other board, one from a newspaper. I can't deal with their ideas, because One they should know better and Two they're the cream of the crop, as far as it goes; it only gets worse from their lofty idea, when those ideas are put into practice.

There's a reason we have a word humane, and it isn't to provide a topic of discussion for the latest and greatest of prisoner abuses. It's supposed to be a concept about not doing those things to anyone, ever. The Golden Rule. The only god dammed Christian concept I ever agreed with, finding out later it's far more universal than that. The GC was basically a military form of the Golden Rule, if you think about it. Gone. These FOOLS!

They have daily meals and are treated well at the facilities? Does that mean abuse is then acceptable, if it only happens to them *sometimes*? He was beat and raped and then murdered, but most of the time, he had two pieces of fruit? My good god, what are these people thinking?

[Burried News]

31. Your mistake was to answer them - just catapault the truth.

"The good news is that the public seems ready to hear that message - readier than the media are to deliver it. Major media organizations still act as if only a small, left-wing fringe believes that we were misled into war, but that "fringe" now comprises much if not most of the population."

[jayfish]

36. An Answer To That Age Old False Dichotomy.

"Well, what if there was someone kidnapped and you only had *so* long to find out where, or she'd die, would it be okay to torture then?"

Just ask "what if the alleged kidnapper was your mother". Shuts them down every time.

Jay

[whatever4]

45. AH!

Oh, good one! I had not thought of that. That does it nicely, thank you.

Sad. The ones taking wives and daughters in Iraq, to get the men to do their bidding? They thought of it. And the raped women they murdered, rather than allow the baby be born, as evidence the rapes? I think they just aren't thinking period, anymore. Monsters.

[TankLV]

103. There are some idiots on THIS board who condone it, too.

There were BIG dicsussions with these ignorant YAHOOS when all this first came out.

[AmBlue]

53. Just show 'em this... *GRAPHIC*

http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_page1.htm

And ask 'em how that squares with their beliefs. These people didn't threaten us fer crissakes!!!!

[Roland99]

19. Damn straight!!

[Burried News]

27. Durbin, just get up and read the Times story of Cab Driver Dilawar

Just read it into the record and sit down. Make no other comment whatsoever.

[TankLV]

102. Not only has he not recinded, he apologized AGAIN according to

reports on CNN this morning.

Just dig deeper, dicky, dig deeper.

[bullimiami]

12. and what? they are going to lay the blame on the soldiers they claim

to love so much. and the 'rogue' defense contractors they have no control over.

it is long past time for a wide open investigation and trial for these war crimes and the responsibility will go all the way back to washington where it originated.

[Beetwasher]

14. I Assume This Will Be FRONT PAGE NEWS EVERYWHERE!!!

Right? RIGHT??? *sigh*

[DearAbby]

16. FRONT PAGE NEWS EVERYWHERE!

Gawd damn it...it should be, Media blast this...Bug the crap out of them...shame them to report this..locally. We can email and call them locally each one of us..the major networks may not report this...but locally they may.

[maddezmom]

17. Front Page News in the ME...but not in the US

[ScamUSA.Com]

20. misleading article

They still try to scapegoat the low ranking soldiers.

What ever happened to the people on top being responsible. Isn't that part of the military standards?

[redqueen]

25. Hi ScamUSA.Com... welcome to DU!

:hi:

I'm sure they're trying to scapegoat the soldiers... however I have a feeling that will fall apart soon.

They're about to release dozens more pictures, and eventually 4 videos, which will hopefully blow that idiotic excuse out of the water.

[ScamUSA.Com]

28. thanks redqueen!

Agreed, with the ACLU FOIA pictures and videos coming out, this will surely escalate.

[Roland99]

21. Email that article to everyone you know

Individually, of course.

[redqueen]

22. Think they're trying to get out in front of the pics & videos that will be

released?

I think yes.

Sorry, neo-con monsters... your legacy is what it is. Backpedaling now won't help you one bit. If they had taken it seriously and stopped it when news first came out, maybe THEN people would take you seriously. As it is, you'll be remembered as criminals.

[Roland99]

24. Less than a week until those are supposed to be released, right?

[redqueen]

29. More like 11 days...

the judge gave them a month to release them... that was on the 3rd, I think.

The ACLU seems confident that these 144 (?) pictures will shatter the idea that the torture was the result of the independent actions of a few soldiers.

[Roland99]

30. I thought the judge said by the end of the month?

[Roland99]

33. Ayup...June 30 is the deadline

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1518679

The court order filed late yesterday requires the government by June 30 to reprocess and redact 144 detainee abuse photographs provided by Sergeant Joseph Darby to the Army’s Criminal Investigation Command.

[redqueen]

37. Typical...

Release them on a Friday, holiday weekend even.

I wish they'd wait until the 5th...

[Roland99]

38. 30th is a Thursday

:)


But, it might be over that weekend. Depends on how long it takes those "redacted" and "reprocessed" photos to reach the media.

[redqueen]

39. Since they gave them till Thursday to process and redact...

I fully expect them to take till the end of the business day to finish.

We'll see... maybe they'll surprise me and release them Thursday morning. That would be good... give people a couple of days maybe to realize it's not just "a few bad apples" before they go about their celebration of our freedom.

*sigh*

[Burried News]

23. Gawwd bless you Senator Warner you kept on this like flies on

Karl Rove. Do your job Warner, you sanctimomious hypocrit. Your Senate Armed Services Committee has done zip with the Taguba report. You gave your word - redeem it or retire in shame. Hollings showed you how.
The prisoner torture is quickly moving from an administration scandal to a Republican Party scandal. And what about your loyalty to the Constitution - you are gutting the Senate's power for generations to come.

[Taverner]

32. An all American Gulag

Use that word - spread it!

Here's a word from Solzhenitsyn, ,who knew a thing or two about Gulags...


http://rempost.blogspot.com/2005/06/from-solzhenitsyns-gulag-simplest.html

[wicket]

34. kicked and nominated

[Fridays Child]

41. Rated a 5, nominated, and kicked.

[Kilroy003]

43. OK, so my country sanctions torture...

That sucks.

[jsamuel]

46. I emailed my family about this, we cannot let the media keep people from

hearing this one...

[NYC Liberal]

47. Time to break out Bush's old statements on torture!

http://vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=23120&keyword=guantanamo+torture&phrase=&contain=

PRESIDENT BUSH: I did discuss it with the Prime Minister. There's a process, ongoing process to deal with these two people that were picked up off of a battlefield of war. And I think one of the—somebody in the Australian media when they were in America asked me about torture, or some—it's alleged allegations of torture. It's ridiculous, utterly ridiculous. And we will deal with them in a—in a way that conforms to our standards

http://vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=92162&keyword=&phrase=torture&contain=

It's in our country's interests to find those who would do harm to us and get them out of harm's way. And we will do so within the law, and we will do so in honoring our commitment not to torture people

http://vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=83430&keyword=&phrase=torture&contain=

This country does not believe in torture. We do believe in protecting ourselves. We don't believe in torture.

http://vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=77028&keyword=&phrase=torture&contain=

THE PRESIDENT: Listen, Al Gonzales reflects our policy, and that is we don't sanction torture.

[jsamuel]

48. he does things he doesn't believe in... sounds like him

like worship god

[rocktivity]

50. Didn't you get Gonzalez's memo? We don't do torture

we do "stress positions" and "environmental manipulation," which fall within the Geneva conventions as long as they're not fatal. And even then, there would have to be an intent to kill. As long as your intent is to create the ILLUSION that they could be killed, you're in the clear!

:headbang:
rocknation

[rocktivity]

49. Welcome to the Friday Afternoon News Dump

with your host Karl Rove! This week's guests: Duke Cunningham's confession of real estate impropriety, UN confirmation of torture in Gitmo, Iraq AND Afghanistan, and the great Iraqi Tons O' Cash giveaway!

:hi:
rocknation

[BattyDem]

51. Since when do "low-level soldiers" make their own decisions?

I was never in the military, but I know several people who were and they all say the same thing: "You don't eat, shit or breathe unless your CO tells you to!"

There is no way in hell that our troops were the ones who decided it was just fine to use torture. We're not talking about one or two instances, we're talking about system-wide abuse in at least two different military prisons! How can Americans be so f*cking stupid?! :grr: I wish the veterans would speak up and make the country understand that our troops don't get to make those kinds of decisions ... EVER!


The timing of this admission is very telling. BushCo is obviously concerned about the upcoming photos. The fact that they are admitting it after all this time has the potential to destroy their credibility with their "reasonable" supporters - but of course the RW nutjobs won't give a shit and they'll say * had his reasons for lying, blah blah blah. :eyes:

[salminen]

52. this won't have any impact, but hopefully the pictures will...

Anyone who feels that torture is never acceptable in any circumstance already opposes Bush. Nobody could have honestly believed that we never tortured a single person. But, pictures have a much greater impact than words. Hearing that in a few isolated cases, we torture 'freedom haters' won't budge any republicans, but seeing pictures that depict the actuality of that type of thing just might.

What scares me is that I have to believe that 999 out of a thousand times something like that happens, nobody would have been dumb enough to take pictures. And, most likely, 99 out of 100 times that someone did take pictures, they wouldn't be dumb enough to leak them to the press. So, for every instance of torture we see photographs of, there must be tens of thousands of incidents we don't hear about. That kind of thing could never happen without the willingness of the administration, up to the very top levels, to look the other way.

One day, all Americans, liberals included, are going to look back at this period of our history and realize that we really did have enough clues to go on to realize what was happening, and we will be ashamed that we didn't do more to stop it. We know more now about the attrocities our government is currently committing than a German citizen would have known during WWII. Let's hope that that is because of a greater transparency today and better access to information, rather than because worse things are afoot.

[Francis]

56. US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo

US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN
06.24.2005, 11:37 AM

GENEVA (AFX) - Washington has, for the first time, acknowledged to the United Nations that prisoners have been tortured at US detention centres in Guantanamo Bay, as well as Afghanistan and Iraq, a UN source said.

The acknowledgement was made in a report submitted to the UN Committee against Torture, said a member of the ten-person panel, speaking on on condition of anonymity.

'They are no longer trying to duck this and have respected their obligation to inform the UN,' the Committee member said.

'They they will have to explain themselves (to the Committee). Nothing should be kept in the dark,' he said.

UN sources said this is the first time the world body has received such a frank statement on torture from US authorities.

The Committee, which monitors respect for the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, is gathering information from the US ahead of hearings in May 2006.

Signatories of the convention are expected to submit to scrutiny of their implementation of the 1984 convention and to provide information to the Committee.

http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/afx/2005/06/24/afx2110388.html

[shoelace414]

57. Today must be Friday.

[gratuitous]

72. And they don't even release the news here

But through Agence France Presse. That's our George! Often wrong, but never in doubt. And when bad news simply can't be suppressed any longer, dump it on a Friday through an overseas news outlet.

I can't imagine why people think this guy is some kind of steely-eyed straight shooter. He's the shiftiest, most lying-ass fudger ever to disgrace the White House, and that's saying something. I mean, it's one thing to be the town drunk in Crawford, Texas. It's something else entirely to be the town drunk in Washington DC.

[stopbush]

58. But, but..O'lielly and Pig Boy swore there wasn't any torture!!!

Damns that UN and their un-American ways!!!

[yankeedem]

59. Newsweek vilified for talking about Qu'aran mishandling

Newsweek apologizes, grovels for forgiveness
Week later, they are proven right

Durban vilified for talking about torture at Gitmo
Durban apologizes
Days later, he is proven right.

See a pattern here?

[indepat]

70. The patter should be painfully obvious to all not brainwashed in their

RW religiosity and/or extreme RW ideology.

[David Zephyr]

60. White House owes Durbin apology! Torture is Nazism.

n/t

[Coventina]

61. America stands for torture now.

Talk about restoring honor and dignity!!!

[orwell]

62. I assume

...that the RW talking heads will demand an apology...

:crazy: :patriot: :sarcasm:

[Gelliebeans]

63. friday news dump

[Melodybe]

64. Quick send this to everyone you know, this is just the precusor to Abu Gar

man next week is going to rough.

[katsy]

65. NONSENSE!

cnn had their paid-for general just say things are peachy keen down there.

Call your neighborhood travel agent and go see for yourself how tidy things are.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[TankLV]

104. Not only that, but the dog and pony show of dems and repukes just returned

from "touring" GITMO and also said everything was peachy too! Almost sounded like a tropical paradise - ate the same "good food", witnessed some (staged) "interrogations", etc. - and these rubes really believed that they were taken to ALL the worst spots! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I can't believe our dem reps are that stupid - but then I look at their "results".

[brainshrub]

66. You mean they tortured them like Nazis?

How is Nazi torture different from 'Murican torture?

[atreides1]

73. NO Swastikas

In 'Murican torture!!!!!

[brainshrub]

75. My God! You're right! I apologize for daring to point out the obvious.

[Burried News]

82. And now we find out we use doctors of psychology to enhance

the effectiveness of torture.

See article at:
http://www.antiwar.com

May they be hunted like Mengele, sadistic wretches. Many a man and possibly two women (Rice and Hughes)will have to answer for this not just George Bush and not just the military.

Maybe there is a word Durbin should have used - Gestapo.

[ollie79]

67. jackpot!

[daleo]

68. 144 photos must be coming out

They are trying to ease people into the idea of torture before they see the brutal reality.

[ckramer]

69. I mean you can pretty much guess that's what's going on inside

it.

You think they lock up 600+ people in there for sex party everyday? LOL

Good thing for them to come clean.

But now what?

The good name created in the Seinfeld era has been totally damaged!

[realFedUp]

71. Erik Saar and Viveca Novak's book Inside the Wire

a firsthand account of Gitmo. Reads well.

[jpak]

74. But...but...delicious rice pilaf!!!!

n/t

[MaineDem]

76. This is for real?

Holy shit!

Send it to EVERYONE!

[David Zephyr]

77. Contest! Which TV News corp will report this first? Which reports it last?

This should be interesting as the corporate news media managers bite their nails about reporting this to the U.S. public knowing they will be trying to manage the story.

It's also very curious that it's FRIDAY when we get this news!

[warrens]

78. Nominated

[Generator]

79. Document not made public until May of 2006

Ahhh..so don't expect anything more from this. But be glad you know..I once heard people that claimed IGNORANCE is no excuse for allowing wrongdoing. But that was another America....

[Burried News]

83. Washington has acknowledged to the United Nations that

prisoners have been tortured.

Great find Francis, thank you.

[TheDebbieDee]

80. Why did Karl Rove say what he said? - - - To distract from this!

Kick!

[maddezmom]

81. not a peep in the MSM today

wonder if they'll get around to it? CNN did a little propagand segment today...Live from Gitmo with Ret Gen. Don Sheppard. But never mentioned the admission my the US.

[chalky]

85. Wow. I'm surprised Yahoo is letting this get voted up

considering the lock they have on the "Duffle Bags of Iraqi Cash" story.

Keep a close eye on the rating and see if the rating magically changes back to 2.5 stars.

[paineinthearse]

86. AFP rocks

Consistently excellent journalism.

[rodeodance]

89. 4.2 stars on Yahoo--(354 votes)

Average (354 votes)
4.2 stars

[rodeodance]

90. anyone hear any news-media clips about this?

[rodeodance]

91. Pedro on c-span just read the story--yeah!!!!!

[rodeodance]

92. then he said he could not find anything on the UN website

[rodeodance]

93. a 'Right' caller in said we should not be criticizing Jr during time of wa

r. He went on and on.

[rodeodance]

94. good for Pedro--he got the story out.

[rodeodance]

95. another caller in said al=quida did not sign the Geneva conv. so we

do not have to follow the rules for these prisioners. lots of kool-aid drinkers calling in.

[rodeodance]

96. We should rate up this yahoo story--get it out.

[rodeodance]

97. some caller in just said Jr would go down in hx as a fuck off--yes!!

Average (359 votes)

[paineinthearse]

99. Thanks for reporting on CSPAN

I am away from a TV.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

105. playing the "forgive us Jayszus" card..works for the Evangelists

We admit we have sinned, can the public now forgive us so we can move on?