NYT: Safer Vehicles for Soldiers: A Tale of Delays and Glitches

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/26/international/middleeast/26armor.html?ei=5094&en=4f357fbcefdcb074&hp=&ex=1119758400&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print

When Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld visited Iraq last year to tour the Abu Ghraib prison camp, military officials did not rely on a government-issued Humvee to transport him safely on the ground. Instead, they turned to Halliburton, the oil services contractor, which lent the Pentagon a rolling fortress of steel called the Rhino Runner.

State Department officials traveling in Iraq use armored vehicles that are built with V-shaped hulls to better deflect bullets and bombs. Members of Congress favor another model, called the M1117, which can endure 12-pound explosives and .50-caliber armor-piercing rounds.

Unlike the Humvee, the Pentagon's vehicle of choice for American troops, the others were designed specifically to withstand bigger attacks in battlefields like Iraq with no safe zones. Last fall, for instance, a Rhino traveling the treacherous airport road in Baghdad endured a bomb that left a six-foot-wide crater. The passengers walked away unscathed. "I have no doubt should I have been in any other vehicle," wrote an Army captain, the lone military passenger, "the results would have been catastrophically different."

Yet more than two years into the war, efforts by United States military units to obtain large numbers of these stronger vehicles for soldiers have faltered - even as the Pentagon's program to armor Humvees continues to be plagued by delays, an examination by The New York Times has found.

[RamboLiberal]

1. Vehicles Article Discussed

The Rhino Runner™ is a custom, hand-made bus and minibus (shuttle) built from chassis up. All the driver and passenger cabins are built using our special materials and know-how. Passengers and drivers are protected on the top, bottom, and sides of the vehicle.

The current approach to an armoring solution for buses and minibuses (also SUVs and luxury cars) is to armor existing vehicles. The problem with armoring existing vehicles is obtaining a balance between protection and performance. Therefore, regular armored buses are only protected against low-level threats, and offer no protection on the roof and floor.

Labock's approach to this problem is unique. Instead of adapting armoring for an existing vehicle, Labock uses the most appropriate chassis and motors, and custom builds vehicles from chassis up, with protection against AP (armor piercing) bullets and provides significant bomb blast protection, however current IED threats are too varied for certification. The Rhino Runner™ is fully protected (sides, front, back, roof, floor, and even glass) against up to Type IV (NIJ standard) including NATO calibers.

The Rhino Runner™ Minibus and Bus have two basic types: one for military use and the other one for civilian use. Each type has two configurations: 17 passengers + Driver, and 24 passengers + driver. The higher the passenger capacity, the lower the cost of protecting each passenger. There is a plan for developing a 36 passengers variant. Also, an improved variant of the 23 passengers configuration is under development for the U.S. Army.

http://www.labock.com/english/av_runner.htm



M1117 Guardian Armored Security Vehicle (ASV) ASV-150
The Armored Security Vehicle-150 (ASV-150) is an armored wheeled vehicle equipped with a turret and armament system designed to meet the security mission requirements of the Military Police Corps. The ASV-150 is a 4 wheel drive vehicle equipped with a 260 horsepower diesel engine, 6 speed automatic transmision and all wheel independent suspension that offers a quality ride while providing superior mobility, agility and handling. The ASV-150 turret is equipped with an improved 40mm MK 19 grenade launcher and 12.7mm machine gun and can be traversed 360 degrees and the weapons elevated between -10 to +60 degrees. The vehicle features roll-on/roll-off C130 tranportability in the fully operational configuration.

The ASV is a lightly armored, all wheel drive vehicle that provides ballistic protection for the Military Police crew members against various threats. These threats include: 7.62mm Ball for the entire vehicle; 12.7mm AP to the crew compartment, weapons station and ammunition storage area; overhead protection from 60mm mortar fragments at 10 meters radius of burst, as a minimum, and 155m artillery air-burst @ 15m. Protection is also required against anti-personnel mines and anti-tank mines up to an equivalent of 12 lbs. of TNT.

The ASV-150 is designed to provided maximum survivability with IBD Modular Expandable Armor System (MEXIS) utilizing ceramic composite applique on exterior and a spall liner on interior surfaces. Simula has received an order from Textron Systems to produce lightweight ceramic/composite applique armor kits. The external armor panels provide ballistic protection against various small-arms and fragment threats with a minimum weight penalty.

The ASV employs, as organic weapons, the MK-19 grenade machine-gun (MK-19 GMG) (turret mounted); M2 .50 caliber machine-gun (turret mounted); and the M249 5.56mm Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW). The ASV has a payload of 3,360 lbs. The ASV operates on standard JP8 diesel fuels, is capable of being towed, performs self-recovery, can recover equivalent vehicles and mounts a tow pintle rated at 500 lb. The system accepts current and programmed tactical radio systems with appropriate encryption equipment. The vehicle operates with specified loads under an on-road/off-road mission profile of 50% primary roads, 30% secondary roads, and 20% cross-country conditions.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/asv.htm



The Cougar H is a family of medium mine-protected vehicles which can be supplied in 4X4 or 6X6 layout. It can be configured for a wide range of tasks including troop carrying (up to 14 in the 6X6), EOD (4 troops and a large EOD robot in the 4X4), command and control, artillery prime mover, recovery and ambulance duty. Cougar H is in production.

http://www.forceprotection.net/models/cougar/

[wakeme2008]

3. Don't you see the problem with the M1117 == It is a Clinton thing

"The ASV production contract for 94 vehicles was awarded on 30 March 1999. Textron Marine and Land Systems, Division of Textron Inc., New Orleans, La., was awarded $14,021,338 as part of a $149,560,243 firm-fixed-price multi-year contract for 94 Armored Security Vehicles (XM1117), engineering services and logistics support, and an option to buy 156 additional vehicles. Work is performed in New Orleans, La., and was expected to be completed by March 30, 2004. This is a sole source contract initiated on Oct. 1, 1998. The U.S. Army Tank-Automotive & Armaments Command, Warren, Mich., is the contracting activity

First Unit Equipped was achieved in February 1998. The new Armored Security Vehicle is used by military police in V Corps' 709th Military Police Battalion, 18th MP Brigade. Fewer than 50 ASVs had been produced by early 2002. By March 2003 a total of 53 were in the inventory. "

...from http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/asv.htm

$140,000 per copy TOOOO cheap for Rummy's taste

Textron WHO... No on Rummy's list of Supplier he likes

Plus Clinton's Sec of Def wanted it... Got to a Liberal commie piece of shit.... :grr:

[Up2Late]

12. How much are they paying for the Armored Humvee?

and how much do the Strikers cost?

[Up2Late]

9. OMG! It the EM-50 "Urban Assault Vehicle" from the movie "Stripes!"

Check it out!



Here's more at what looks like a fan page (link below):

<http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/Stripes/UrbanAssaultVehicleTop.htm>

<http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/Stripes/UrbanAssaultVehicleInterior.htm>

[RamboLiberal]

13. Thank you Up2Late - I spent quite a bit of time looking for a pic

I too had an OMG it's the UAV from Stripes moment.

[CorwinB]

2. Typo in this article...

"even as the Pentagon's program to armor Humvees continues to be plagued by delays"

should of course read "even as the Pentagon's program to armor Humvees continues to be plagued by Delay" (and other corporate tools who funnel money much needed to armor vehicles into pork, Star Wars follies and Halliburton)

[Career Prole]

4. They didn't even ask for the money, near as I can tell.

SEC. 112. UP-ARMORED HIGH MOBILITY MULTI-PURPOSE WHEELED VEHICLES OR WHEELED VEHICLE BALLISTIC ADD-ON ARMOR PROTECTION.

10 (a) AMOUNT.--Of the amount authorized to be appro-
11 priated for the Army for fiscal year 2005 for other procure-
12 ment under section 101(5), $610,000,000 shall be available
13 for both of the purposes described in subsection (b) and may
14 be used for either or both of such purposes.
15 (b) PURPOSES.--The purposes referred to in subsection
16 (a) are as follows:
17 (1) The procurement of up-armored high mobil-
18 ity multi-purpose wheeled vehicles at a rate up to 450
19 such vehicles each month.
20 (2) The procurement of wheeled vehicle ballistic
21 add-on armor protection.
22 (c) ALLOCATION BY SECRETARY OF THE ARMY.--

(1) The Secretary of the Army shall allocate the amount available under subsection (a) between the two purposes set forth




HR 4200 EAS/PP
24
1 in subsection (b) as the Secretary determines appropriate
2 to meet the requirements of the Army.
3 (2) Not later than 15 days before making an allocation
4 under paragraph (1), the Secretary shall transmit a notifi-
5 cation of the proposed allocation to the congressional defense
6 committees.
7 (d) PROHIBITION USE OTHER PURPOSES.--
ON FOR

8 The amount available under subsection (a) may not be used
9 for any purpose other than a purpose specified in subsection
10 (b).

Anyways, the link's here... :eyes:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h108-4200

Despite all the shit about armor that was happening since the invasion began, way back in April of 2004 they decided to allocate funds for armor from the FY2005 budget!

[maddezmom]

5. kick

:kick:

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

6. Another kick and a recommendation.

:kick:

[Up2Late]

7. Hey what happened to "Up Armor Kits?"

Not working Rummy?

[VegasWolf]

8. Buy safer vehicles or more oil derricks. What to do, what to do? nt

[dchill]

10. Are "Delays and Glitches" new synonyms...

for "Incompetence and Greed?" Humvee was the wrong vehicle from the get-go.

[Career Prole]

11. A kick and a recommendation.

A kickommendation?

Because of the unpardonable and unnecessary delays on this issue Rumsfeld is directly responsible for many additional deaths and injuries.
Teddy Kennedy shouldn't be alone calling for this bastard's resignation, and the fact that shrub won't fire him indicts him as well.
:grr: :grr: :grr:

[Moderator]

14. Kick

[kskiska]

15. VIPs in Iraq get safer vehicles than soldiers

WASHINGTON - When Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld visited Iraq last year to tour the Abu Ghraib prison camp, U.S. military officials did not rely on a government-issued Humvee to transport him safely on the ground. They turned to Halliburton, which lent them a rolling fortress of steel called the Rhino Runner.

State Department officials traveling in Iraq use armored vehicles that are built with V-shaped hulls to better deflect bullets and bombs. Members of Congress favor another model, called the M1117, which can endure 12-pound explosives and .50-caliber armor-piercing rounds.

Unlike the Humvee, the Pentagon's vehicle of choice for U.S. troops, the others were designed specifically to withstand bigger attacks.

Yet more than two years into the war, efforts by U.S. military units to obtain large numbers of these stronger vehicles for soldiers have faltered - even as the Pentagon's program to armor Humvees continues to be plagued by delays.

more…
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/world/story/B50AF60741C7E4C98625702C00404BB2?OpenDocument

[pocket]

16. a Rhino Runner is basically an armored bus, not a fighting vehicle

they use those as a shuttle bus between BIAP and the Green Zone.

[daleo]

17. Maybe it should be called a "Rummy Runner"

In honor of Rumsfeld's feats of daring do.

[truthisfreedom]

20. hey, that's kinda catchy!

rummy runner.

[pdurod1]

18. Hmmm, Clint, Sondra Locke

[PSPS]

19. More bullshit

<i> >... the Pentagon's program to armor Humvees continues to be plagued
> by delays.

This is an outright lie. My brother's company is one of several that makes these armoring kits for humvees, and they've been ready to produce them for years. The only problem is that they haven't received a single order.

[RamboLiberal]

21. I posted info and pics of the mentioned vehicles

in the orginal thread from the NYT article Sunday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1581438

[wtmusic]

22. There is no safe vehicle

when you are in a country you have no right to be in

[bpilgrim]

23. bet rummy never imagined what a rhino, hunted, felt like before

:argh:

peace

[NNN0LHI]

24. Has anyone checked to see if John Wayne's War Wagon is in use? n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

25. Here's an article and pic of the "Rhino Runner".....

<http://truckseries.com/cgi-script/csArticles/articles/000060/006093.htm>

But we can't have the regular troops ride in this, can we?

[progressivebydesign]

26. Way to support the troops.. right Rummy?

Utter bullshit. The contractors WE TAXPAYERS ARE PAYING have the safest vehicles. Remember that.. WE ARE PAYING FOR THAT so that contractors can be safe while our troops die? Why would anyone believe that the republicans care more about the troops.

My neighbor works for a worldwide contractor with contracts in Iraq (paid for by you and me), and he tells me that the employees over there from his company get triple their normal salary plus bonuses.. and that they hire former Green Berets for security at a massive price... and we all pay for it. They are working on government contracts... Yep. They are cutting rural health care and education here, cutting community policing and medicare, and spending BILLIONS in Iraq to protect contractors.. NOT our troops.

unfucking believable.

[Straight Shooter]

27. Rummy should go charging through Iraq streets on his white steed.

He thinks he's their savior, let him immerse himself in the role.

Just don't shoot the horse, please.

[wakeme2008]

28. Picture to piss you off

During a visit to Iraq last year, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld rode in a Rhino Runner, a steel-reinforced vehicle that its maker says is designed to withstand 7.62 x 39-millimeter and 5.56-millimeter ammunition, overhead airbursts and explosive devices up to 1,000 pounds

[KeepItReal]

29. Damn! He is chillin in that Rhino

He's obviously too good to cruise in an up-armored hummvee...

"I'm not a sucka, so I don't need a bodyguard" - Rob Base

[susu369]

30. I am pissed

:kick:

[EFerrari]

31. Why does this mofo get to be more safe than OUR KIDS?

This is the most disgusting thing I've EVER seen in life.

He'll pay for this. :nuke:

[flvegan]

32. Last night, "60 Minutes" did a story on Iraq last night, and they showed

the "Frankenstein" (as the Marines have dubbed them) vehicles, with their welded plates, etc. I just happened to be clicking through, so I don't know what the jist of the story was. It didn't portray the situation in Iraq as getting any better. While they were filming, an IED took out the Humvee in front of them (nobody was killed, "the humvee held up this time"). Insane, just insane that our troops have this (lack of armor) to deal with.

[EFerrari]

33. I caught part of that show in the same way.

And it hit home for me, Bush has broken the most fundamental contract he has with our military: not to send them anywhere needlessly, not to send them anywhere ill equipped, not to ignore them and their families when they come home.

There are no words for someone who would sign off on something like this.

[wellst0nev0ter]

34. "You Go To War With The Army You Have"

Or in this case, a heavily armored Rummy Runner. :grr: