Students quit over anti-US slurs

[floda]

AMERICAN students are quitting Queensland universities in the face of hate attacks by Australians angry at US President George W. Bush and the war in Iraq.

One university has launched an investigation into claims an American student returned to the US after suffering six months of abuse at a residential college in Brisbane.

American students have told The Sunday Mail the verbal attacks are unbearable and threatening to escalate into physical violence.

Griffith University student Ian Wanner, 19, from Oregon, said abusive Australian students had repeatedly called him a "sepo" – short for septic tank. "It is so disrespectful. It's not exactly the most welcoming atmosphere here," he said.

http://www.sundaytimes.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,15734656%255E421,00.html

more...



yeah, Bush is a great uniter...

[aquart]

1. And the Aussies are still our allies.

Which may be why they're so mad.

[bribri16]

74. More evidence the Bushcos the image of the US has been damaged

by their neocon-PNAC agenda. America is hated by more people in more places than any other time in our history.

[catnhatnh]

2. You are now officially allowed to be PISSED...

...at one of our best allies....But first lets look at a demographic that can afford to fly off for a year below the Southern Cross...And it sure ain't the mill workers kids or scions of any middle class (haha) I ever heard of.Neither would a millworkers kid be chased off by insults, having been raised on "sticks and stones".Mostly when I read this I am tempted to laugh....sorry

[Cha]

4. I know what you mean ..

see my post below this one.:)

[TahitiNut]

5. Yep. I think ya gotta go a LOOONG way to invite such continued treatment

,,, from Aussies (or Kiwis). I've yet to meet an obnoxious Aussie or Kiwi, and I've met dozens and dozens ... well enough to go drinking, tell stories about family, talk politics, and just generally be a 'mate' with. Hell, I've usually found people to be pretty good in every country ... but the Aussies and Kiwis seem somehow more convivial than the rest.

[malmapus]

97. Same here...methinks they must have done something akin to

Rob Cordrey(sp?)in that Daily Show segment last week.

[brentspeak]

10. I don't know

For all we know, the students who got harassed could have been either apolitical or anti-Bush, too.

[catnhatnh]

16. Then at a time when their less fortunate...

...contemporaries are dying in Iraq I have little sympathy for their bruised feelings...sorry,but true

[brentspeak]

59. If I had to suffer repeated verbal abuse in a foreign country

just because I happen to be an American, I wouldn't have bruised feelings -- the person who threatened or harassed me should be prepared for the possibility of receiving some real-life bruises of his own.

[pacifictiger]

131. I suspect those kids

picked on this person because he or she did something dumb - like spout off how great and noble America always is or how America is better than any other country in the world, or how Bush is the greatest president of all time.
Unless you are non-american you don't understand how sickening it can be to have to deal with the "ugly american" syndrome - ignorance laced with an air of superiority. When I first moved to the states I was astounded at the vast number of Americans who knew little or nothing about the history or geography of the rest of the world. Indeed, many Americans had never even heard of Afghanistan before Sept 11th.
Aussies have their own way of cutting right through the crap and calling a spade a spade. And yes, the verbal stuff can come thick and fast for the thin-skinned or unenlightened.

[primavera]

79. If they were, I'm pretty sure they could say so

I mean, if someone came up top me and say "You Americans are war criminals!" I'd be the first to reply "You're absolutely right, it's an intensely shameful time for the US." I find it hard to believe the confrontation would go anywhere after that, I mean, how do you argue with someone who agrees with you? Conversely, of course, if you try to stand up for the Vaterland and defend the indefensible, well, then that's your affair and you deserve a few bits of choice rhetoric.

[fortyfeetunder]

119. I had that happen abroad once...

and I agreed.
It was post-Watergate, pre-resignation, I was abroad, and one of the locals asked me, "Are you sick of tired of hearing of Nixon". I nodded, and she said, "Me too". It really didn't bother me.

[CTLawGuy]

136. this is DU

we specialize in arguments with people who agree with us.

[Tommymac]

148. ROFLMLAO! nt

:rofl:

[CTLawGuy]

150. I'm sorry, YOU'RE WRONG!

I can't believe even PROGRESSIVES would still think that way.

How dare you not agree with 100% of what I say.


:)

[katsy]

25. If these kids wanted to expand their horizon...

maybe they should have enlisted for Iraq. I heard they'd be met with flowers & be treated as heros.

You are right about these not being average American kids. What middle class family can afford to send their kids away for a year. Most of them hold jobs just to stay in college.

[Cha]

3. This article is confusing because

at first it seems the students know it is bush who should incur their wrath..not American students.

I would join in on their condemnation of bush. The Aussies also need to start campaigning to get johnbushboy howard out who was one of bush's second lap dogs.

I would also wear a fucking big PIN that says "I VOTED FOR KERRY/EDWARDS"

And I will when I travel abroad if I should ever get to.

[Brundle_Fly]

67. that kerry edwards pin would get you...

many drinking brothers here in canada.

I think what you are seeing is the way most hard core ugly americans get treated in foreign countries....

I do not for a second think a liberal, compassionate person from the US would be treated poorly from and aussie, canadian, or englishman. It's the "We let your country exist" mentality, "we save the world, etc etc" BS that so many americans walk around with, that makes this treatment happen.

[shadowknows69]

77. Glad you're still open minded Brundle.

and I truly hope most of my fellow countrymen don't have the attitude you speak of. It is so pathetic when we can't even feel safe in the countries of our closest allies, and I can't blame these aussies. Our grandchildren will still be repairing the relationships our criminal leader has destroyed. All we ask is when the empire crumbles please open your hearts and if necessary your doors to the good people of this once good nation.

[Seabiscuit]

109. Bingo.

These spoiled American brats must have had it coming - they must have provoked the Aussies who they complain were "harassing". No one from Australia would verbally abuse an American that agreed with them about Iraq.

[Bassic]

141. Well, we all have our morons

And some of them might even be roughed up here in Canada, but for the most part, we only dislike the stupid ones. DUers dont tend to fall in that category ;-) :toast:

[primavera]

81. Agreed

In principal, I appreciate the argument that one shouldn't have to advertise ones beliefs to escape prejudice; at the same time, in the real world, if you're stupid enough to walk through a dangerous part of town late at night with hundred dollar bills hanging conspicuously from your pockets, how many of us are really doing to be terribly sympathetic when you predictably get mugged?

The US at present is a global force for evil; citizens of other countries are entirely within their rights to question our actions, and, thanks to our having elected the same bunch of fascists into office for a second term of global terrorism, the priorities of our voters. If one does not wish to be tarred with the same brush quite reasonably applied to the majority of American voters, it's very much in ones best interests to publicly distance oneself from that majority.

[Lilith Velkor]

142. My traveling button sez "Fuck Bush and his fucking war"

And wouldn't you know, lots of Europeans are quite friendly to me.

I wish I could afford to go to Australia, man. I'd probably never pay for a drink.

[MrPrax]

6. This is a kettle-black thing...

I think the Aussies are little out of line--they show more humility. Howard was a huge supporter of the Iraq war from day one.

How can they pretend to be so morally superior on this one? :shrug:

[wildeyed]

18. And they re-elected him by a pretty solid margin.

By a larger marin than we "re-elected" bush. :shrug:

[Art_from_Ark]

71. The difference is, in Australia, only a very few people

actually voted directly for Mr. Howard.

[wildeyed]

78. If they picked him as second choice, they likely knew

what they were doing.

My sis, who lives in Sydney, said Howard did a last minute fear campaign on interest rates. Mortgage interest rates are not fixed in AU. The last few times the opposition has been in power, interest rates went through the roof.

Listen, I love Australia. I love Australians. If there was anywhere on the entire planet that I could choose to live, it would be Sydney. But they DID re-elect Howard, even if their voting system is slightly different than ours.

[pacifictiger]

132. In the parliamentary system

you do not elect the prime minister. Whoever is head of the party that gets the most seats in parliament, becomes the prime minister. It is sort of akin to whoever becomes the house or senate majority leader.

[wildeyed]

138. You are right.

The conservative (Liberal, how confusing is that?) coalition won. I thought they voted for PM using Instant Run Off Voting and that is why they did not vote "directly" for PM. Aussie politics is really confusing.

But my point about the voting patterns of the Australians still stands. They voted for Howard's coalition knowing that would mean staying in Iraq.

The Labor Party had vowed to bring Australian troops in and around Iraq home by Christmas, while Howard insisted they would stay until Iraqis asked them to leave. Australian troops have not suffered any casualties and none has a combat role.

Australians have focused more on the economy, health and education than on Howard's unpopular decision to join the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq. Howard sent 2,000 troops to Iraq last year, prompting accusations he was Bush's lackey.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19744-2004Oct9.html

[SemperEadem]

144. some here would argue the same about *

electronic voting machines and whatnot...

[burrowowl]

7. I wonder what the US

student reactions are? If typical America is Right and if you don't like it ....Then I imagine they are having a hard time.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. Looks like a planted story to me.

[vajraroshana]

123. ding ding ding ding

There's many things about the story that come off sounding just so much like pure bullshit.

I especially like this bit: "She said attacks from the general public were mostly sedate"; try to wrap your head around what the fuck a "mostly sedate attack" is supposed to be. Really this story is a bunch of bullshit.

[ngGale]

130. Agreed - IMO, total bullcrap coming ...

from a right winged student or a Rove plant.

[SemperEadem]

145. If she's a white female in Australia

and she keeps her mouth shut, how would they know she was an American? That's what seems out of place in that statement to me.

[Gyre]

9. None of you know all the facts

Don't be so hasty to condemn unless you do. For all you know the American's might've been wearing "I love W", or "Bring it on" t-shirts, got justifiably harrassed, and now are claiming "victim" status. Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Gyre

[donco6]

23. That may be true, but

a friend of mine - gay also - was recently in Amsterdam and he got harrassed to the point he was afraid he was going to get into a fistfight - and he HATES Bush. He said it many times, but this guy just kept going on and on about American imperialism and the war, etc. My friend was agreeing with him and he still kept yelling and just generally belligerent. Scary.

[prodigal_green]

90. I lived in Europe when Reagan was president

I hated the guy and would say so, but I also pointed out the insane hypocricy of just about any European going on about American imperialism.

The Dutch certainly did their fair share of damage around the world, as did the English, the French, the Spanish, the Portuguese, and the Italians, not to mention the wars of aggression started by the Germans. And most of these countries continue to support corrupt regimes in their former colonies, at least in countries so screwed up by colonization that they haven't been able to introduce anything better.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

105. But those other countries learned the error of their ways. We haven't.

[prodigal_green]

122. No, now they just pass racist laws

when people from their former colonies decide to move to the former colonial power. The IMMIGRATION PROBLEM that Europe is dealing with right now is simply turnabout. I guess they never thought of themselves as "immigrants" in the countries they were taking over.

I love Europe, I do think that most of the EU is more progressive than the US, but there is a decidedly conservative attitude when it comes to their former colonies.

[foreigncorrespondent]

91. Well Amsterdam isn't Australia!

And I am another Aussie who has to call this story bullshit.

Sapphocrat has been here for one month each year since 2001. We have't exactly kept her hidden in a locked room somewhere. Hell I have taken her right around Victoria, and into the souther part of New South Wales. No matter what people we came across they all treated her with respect.

Sapph is about to travel here again in a couple of months. If I truly felt it wouldn't be safe for her here, then she wouldn't be coming here.

[donco6]

112. Good for you.

I was commenting on anti-American sentiment around the world, Australia just being one continent, after all, and NSW being just one region of that continent, and Victoria being just one city in that region.

I'm glad Australia isn't as rabid as the original poster intimated.

[foreigncorrespondent]

125. Just to let you know...

...NSW and Victoria and two seperate states. NSW is where Sydney is and Victoria is where Melbourne is. So we are talking about areas with the two biggest cities in Australia in them. :)

[Gyre]

151. Well what we do know is that much of the world hates the chimp

and some of them either are willing to work it out on all Americans they encounter regardless of that person's personal politics. Some Americans would be doing the exact same thing if the shoe were on the "other foot".

How safe do you think people of French heritage here were feeling while the repiglicans were going off on the French for abstaining from the chimp's big adventure in Iraq? How safe do you think ANY brown people feel in this American environment?

Chimpy has opened Pandora's Box, and if all we suffer as a result are the hurt feelings of a few American students abroad, I'd say we did pretty well.

Gyre

[Violet_Crumble]

37. This Aussie is calling bullshit on it...

I go to a uni that has international students from the US. I've been in political science tutes with a student from the US who was very pushy about his conservative political views. No-one was abusive to him, or to any other student from the US I've encountered. And 'sepo'?? I've never heard of that term before, so I reckon it's been invented by the guy who reckons he was called that because that's how he thinks Australians refer to Americans. If he'd said he was called a Yank, that'd be much more believable, though someone would have to point out to him that terms like Yank (for US citizens) and Pom (for British citizens) are about as offensive and abusive as referring to us as Aussies...

Violet...

[catnhatnh]

80. Offensive??Aussie??

I'll drop the term from my vocabulary then...what is the preferred term or terms?

[Mythsaje]

87. Is "Aussie" offensive?

I'd never heard that. I guess I need to apologize to my Australian author friend for using that term, then. Not that she said anything, but...<shrug>

[TahitiNut]

126. No! The term 'Aussie' is not derogatory. (Neither is 'Yank'.)

That doesn't mean someone couldn't say it in a tone of voice that was insulting, though. All my Aussie and Kiwi acquaintances have called me a Yank. We've always regarded those terms as an endearing part of international travel, like 'Brit' and 'Scot' and even 'Canuck.' I think anyone who'd take offense at any of those is really reaching.

[anakie]

127. self delete

covered much better further on

[Vickers]

11. Man, if we are pissing off AUSSIES, we are truly fucked

One of the coolest countries in the world...I can hardly wait for Faux News et al to Frenchify them. :eyes:

[wallwriter]

135. Also very similar to USA in general respects

[bluestateguy]

12. I don't know what these kids' specific situation was

but if I was abroad and attacked for being an American, even after making it clear that I am an opponent of the Bush Administration and its policies, I would be pretty angry too.

If these kids are Bush loyalists, then they are getting what they deserve. If not, they are being treated unfairly.

Only 62 million Americans are dammed fools.

[Cha]

13. "62 Million" voted for bush?

Somehow I doubt that. }(

[Orangepeel]

15. they are damned fools if they didn't vote for Kerry

regardless of whether they voted for bush, somebody else, left the space blank or didn't vote.

Unfortunately, that's a lot more than 62 million. :-(

[Media_Lies_Daily]

108. Are you referring to the NeoCon-controlled voting machines....

...as "damned fools"? Because when it was all said and done, anyone who thought they were voting could have just stayed home.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

30. Oh, so you know exactly how many people voted for and against Bush?....

...Who's your source?

[bluestateguy]

45. Here's your damn source!

http://uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/

:eyes:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

107. And he's basing his information on the results of electronic voting....

...for which there is no paper trail, and no independent verification that the machines worked as they were advertised to work?

Interesting that anyone would trust those numbers to be accurate in any way, shape, or form.

Just as I suspected, YOU don't have a source. You have a website that's reporting the numbers generated by NeoCon-controlled voting machines.

[Violet_Crumble]

52. No, not even Bush loyalists deserve to be abused...

Abusing any individual and placing the blame for their leaders on them isn't right. It doesn't matter if they support that leader or not. In most cases that support isn't out of any great understanding of the implications of what those leaders do, but they vote for them out of sheer dumbness and looking at what they as an individual will get out of it. While criticising Bush and US policy is absolutely fine, abusing a US citizen because they voted for Bush is moronic and imo just as bigoted as attacking an Israeli for the policies of Sharon, or an Australian for Howard's draconian mandatory detention policies...

Violet...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

106. That's your opinion.

[Bragi]

118. I disagree

VioLet Crumble writes: "...abusing a US citizen because they voted for Bush is moronic..."

Any American who admits to voting for Bush has earned the right to be treated as a moron.

- B

[foreigncorrespondent]

94. That's the thing!

If this story is in fact true, then they do not deserve to e treated that way for being an American.

But as I said further back up, I think this story is bullshit. I know lots of Americans who are living here. My partner travels here, and no matter what, no one has dished anything remotely bad to them.

Aussies are a lot smarter than this story has given us credit for. We know exactly where the blame lies for the shit in Iraq. And that blame certainly doesn't lie with the people of America.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. It's rhyming slang

septic tank - Yank. I didn't think it was held to be so abusive that it's worth writing newspaper articles about.

[MrSlayer]

26. I know what it is.

I still find it distasteful and disrespectful. Why aren't they kicking their own asses for electing that jagoff Bush enabling Howard? It's stupid to insult the citizens of this country because the President is an asshole while your guy is just as bad.

[Violet_Crumble]

39. How do you know?

How do you know who those who allegedly insulted these US citizens voted for? I don't recall that bit in the article. Care to point out where that was mentioned?

Violet...

[MrSlayer]

40. Well that's my point.

To attack American students because Bush is President is stupid. As you said how are they to know who voted for whom? From looking at the story it doesn't seem like those attacked were Chimp supporters, they were attacked simply because they are Americans. And Yank isn't offensive but septic tank, which is the insult applied, is. Applying it to all Americans is as wrong as calling all Australians kangaroo fucking retards because Howard is Prime Minister.

[Violet_Crumble]

42. The story sounds pretty suspect, though...

Apart from what I've already said about US students at the uni I'm at, I was also wondering why it's only these students from one university who are claiming abuse. If that was the case, it'd be obvious not just with uni students but other US citizens who are here with their jobs etc. My daughter's best friend is a kid from the US who's here because of her father's job. They haven't experienced any hostility. I suspect that at the bottom of this story posted here is a case of a conservative US citizen with a bad case of the gripes that Australians dare criticise Bush and don't realise that the US citizen sees criticism of Bush as a hostile attack on the US citizen. Also, 'septic tank' or 'sepo' aren't terms that get used - at least I've never heard anyone use them. Yank, yes, but not those. 'septic tank' sounds like something my dearly departed WWII vet granddad would have come out with. I think that's the era the term was coined, and because there was lots of bad blood between Australian troops and US troops stationed here, it was intended to be derogatory. But why would youngish students be using a term that's ancient and not used anymore? That's why I reckon the story is bullshit...

Violet...

[MrSlayer]

43. One of my Aussie friends from a different board says the use is prevalent.

He goes to University down there and says the term is alive and well and has been revived since the Olympics were held there a few years ago. Apparently there was some widely controversial American protest against an Aussie athlete or some shit.

[Violet_Crumble]

44. I'd say yr friend is talking bullshit...

If the use of the term is prevalent, then why isn't it, well, prevalent? Though I'm sure yr friend also goes to a University where they routinely pick out US students to scream shrill abuse at ;)

Then again, I looked at a slang dictionary and it's in there, so my guess is it's just prevalent in its use as another term included - spine-basher.

Violet....

[MrSlayer]

46. I have no reason to doubt him.

As for why it isn't prevalent in your university, perhaps it's a regional thing, I don't know. I'll ask which University he attends.

[Violet_Crumble]

49. Not just in my university...

Throughout the rest of society. It's not a term that appears in the media and in everyday life, and the only place I've seen it is in relation to WWII, where it seemed to be a commonplace term. The whole idea of a bunch of folk in their late teens and early twenties running round throwing that term around is as weird as if yr friend was to inform you that sentences like 'Crikey! Yer flaming wombat! I'm going to get the tart over there to tee up some true blue tucker and struth she'll be apples!' actually are how people talk on a regular basis over here, and it's not confined to slang dictionaries and Alf Stewart and that other fucking moron Steve Irwin...

Violet...

[foreigncorrespondent]

96. Then your friend is talking...

...out of his ass. That term has not been used since the end of WWII. If you do hear it spoken today, it is usually said by some old bloke down at the local pub talking about the old times.

[gollygee]

82. It's a lot older than that

Septic Tank is pretty old rhyming slang in Aus. for Americans - much older than Bush or Howard have been in office. I first heard it in Aus. in the 90s and I believe it was old then. It was used as just a teasing kind of joke.

[foreigncorrespondent]

95. So you just go ahead...

...and do to every Aussie reading your words, what those idiots in QLD supposedly did to your country folk. Does that make you feel better?

Ya know, every time support for Howard and Iraq and Bush* go right down in Australia. When the shit really begins to hit the fan (can you say DSM?) we get stories of Americans being abused here.

The last was in Fremantle, Western Australia if I recall correctly. But isn't it funny that I can take my partner from the U.S. to a little hick town in the scrub and she not face anything these guys have claimed to have faced? And to think we are a lesbian couple and don't face crap.

And I can guarantee you, that if you were to travel here, you wouldn't face it either.

[bikebloke]

55. Originally "Sherman Tank" for yank

In Cockney slang. The Aussies changed it to "septic tank".

[Violet_Crumble]

38. I'm very insulted by being called a criminal..

Reacting to what someone sees as insulting citizens of their own country by making insulting remarks about citizens of another country comes across as very tit-for-tat and all it achieves is insulting people who have done nothing to you. Just because someone makes a claim that appears in a Murdoch rag does not make it true, and my experiences as a student at a uni that has a large number of US students has my bullshit radar pinging loudly...

Also, you imply further down that Australians shouldn't dare criticise the Bush administration before they get rid of Little Johnny. Newsflash - there's 20 million of us and surprisingly we all don't think the same way. Why should a left-wing Australian have to cease their criticism of Bush? Also, if you had some knowledge of the coalition and those who tend to vote for it, you'd understand that many voted Liberal because there were things like the $600 bribe being waved in their faces. Iraq barely crossed the radar on the election campaign...

Violet...

[bicentennial_baby]

17. My studies in France should be interesting

I'll be sure to report back...

[Flagg]

20. You won't have any problems if you're anti-Bush.

[bicentennial_baby]

21. Cool

I have lots of good anti-bush pins on my day bag, so they'll get the message... Je deteste Bush!

[foo_bar]

28. just put one of these on your bag

Most hooligans don't know the first thing about Canadian politics.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. Except I've heard that most of the people going around with

Canadian flags on their luggage are actually Americans who don't want to be hassled.

[depakid]

36. I just so happen to have a maple leaf patch

on my pack! ;-)

(for that very reason).

[tinfoilinfor2005]

41. I was treated very well in France this past March

And I didn't bring up politics either way. I speak a little French which was helpful, I think. Good luck and don't worry about a thing other than staying away from the pickpockets. I envy you...I fell in love with Paris!

[DFLer4edu]

133. That's not entirely true

I'm at the end of a year abroad in France. I had a girl in my class and unfortunately in the same group of friends who was determined to be a bitch to me and make my life hell just because I was American. One time toward the beginning of the year I simply sat down next to her at lunch when we were with mutual friends and she muttered just loud enough for everyone to hear, putain américain.
Hopefully you won't run into anybody like that. Other than this one girl, no one held Bush against me. My experience discussing politics has been fairly negative though. I haven't talked to many people who actually cared what I had to say and most simply wanted to confirm a deformed and contorted image of the US. A famous French journalist, who's name I'm currently blanking on gave the French 7 out of 20 on understanding Americans/the US and Americans 4 out of 20 for understanding France/ the French. I'd give the the French 5 out of 20 in terms of understanding the US/Americans and Americans 3 out of 20 in terms of understanding the French/France.

When are you going to be studying in France, for how long, and where?

[wildeyed]

19. I dunno if I buy it.

My sis has lives in Sydney for years and she has never mentioned, not once, being persecuted for her nationality.

And if being called 'sepo' is the worst thing that has ever happened to you, well maybe you need to get out more.

[daleo]

22. Note the link to FOX SPORTS at the top of the article

Methinks this may be a Murdoch paper.

[nicknameless]

31. You were right -- Murdock-owned paper.

(see post #29)

[Algorem]

27. Come back to the Homeland,Big Brother Bush needs you for his perma-

nent peace-war.

[nicknameless]

29. DING-DING-DING -- And we have a winner! Murdock-owned paper!

The prize goes to daleo. :applause:

http://www2b.abc.net.au/news/forum/newsonline1/archives/archive15/newposts/13/topic13427.shtm

From: ChrisF 7/06/2003 5:38:48 PM
Subject: re: Peter Beattie is the next PM post id: 518
Pistoph, you say "It all depends on how far Kerry and Rupert allow them to go."

What's your view on the likelihood of our emulating the US and rescinding the media cross-ownership rules? And would changes have to go through the Senate?

The other thing that bothers me is the prospect of this free-trade agreement with the US, and how this might affect media ownership. Although Perth is the only capital city in Australia where the best selling newspaper is not owned by Murdoch, there are still plenty of opportunities out there for further consolidation.
HTTP/1.1 404 Object Not Found Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0 Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 00:37:40 GMT X-Powered-By: ASP.NET Connection: close Content-Type: text/html


From: Jako ® 8/06/2003 9:48:39 AM
Subject: re: Peter Beattie is the next PM post id: 566
"Although Perth is the only capital city in Australia where the best selling newspaper is not owned by Murdoch"

ChrisF

He still owns the Sunday Times that I stopped buying.
The editorials that he has in them you can read in the any of his publication.
All you get is Murdock's view and his alone.

HTTP/1.1 404 Object Not Found Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0 Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 00:37:41 GMT X-Powered-By: ASP.NET Connection: close Content-Type: text/html

<snip>

That was 2003...Has it changed owners since then?

[daleo]

58. Nice catch to verify this

Naturally, anything of this nature in a Murdock paper is probably overblown sensationalism.

[brentspeak]

61. OK, so this is a Murdoch-owned paper

and usually, more often than not, Murdoch new organisations are full of B.S.

But what would be the motivation to fabricate a story like this? I just don't see any rationale why Murdoch would want to paint his home country as such an unfriendly place to Americans.

[nicknameless]

66. My perspective:

NeoCons always thrive in an environment of "them against us." Plus they love sensationalism. My assumption: Murdock is just furthering the NeoCon cause, providing more fuel of distrust and divisiveness with some sensationalism thrown in for good measure. (Always helps him to sell his newspapers.) Of course, I'm prejudiced and always think that his motives are nefarious.

The Australian posters below might have other ideas about his motivation.

[daleo]

68. The story isn't necessarily fabricated, but exaggerated

A few anecdotes are blown up into a trend, with no basis in fact. Why would they do this? Neo-con papers (e.g. anything connected with Murdoch) are always working the angle that there is some irrational anti-Americanism out there, rather than acknowledging that people throughout the world have a reasoned and logical objection to Bushian foreign policy.

It is a variation on the "they hate us for our freedom" nonsense.

[nicknameless]

72. Oops, sorry. Forgot to add

Like daleo, I also believe that there were probably isolated incidents that got overblown -- not a total fabrication.

[bpilgrim]

32. probably some rich kid with connections cause i'm sure that is everywhere

nowadays thanks to the neoCONs.

peace

[depakid]

34. My bet is that the students are Republicans- and spout

off their right wing drivel.

I doubt very seriously it's just because they're Americans....

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. Rich business majors consider Australia a desirable study abroad

location because:

1) There's no foreign language requirement.

2) There are great beaches in Australia.

3) The Australians are said to be heavy drinkers.

What's not to like for a young Republican?

[stevans_41902]

50. The Americans in the story could very well be Bush supporters,

but I know someone whose brother is very anti Bush and when he went to Australia he was told "its your fault my brother is getting shot at in Iraq". He explained to him that he did not vote for Bush, etc, but the guy still acted like it was his fault just b/c he is American. I think the great majority of Europeans/ Australians will not put in against you if you are American and voted for Kerry but there are always a few who are so appalled at the fact that Bush is in his second term that they wonder if anybody is sane in this country. (can't blame them sometimes) Personally I wouldn't wear a Canadian pin to make people think I am not from America - I would wear anti Bush pins to let them know I am not an american idiot, though. I have no problem w/ people knowing I am american, and if they choose to judge me even after i explain to them how much i loathe the current administration then its no longer my problem.
I think its kinda unfair to say they are Repukes b/c a year abroad is expensive. I know people who aren't rich by any means who are getting scholarships to study abroad...but yeah, I think Bush supporters would prob. be more likely to go to Australia than most other countries b/c of the stuff mentioned in an earlier post.

[interupt]

47. Uh...whats this insult?

It must be a Queensland thing, but I haven't heard of "Sepo" being thrown around as an insult before. What the hell does it mean being called a septic tank...personally I find it hilarious it would be the best insult someone could come up with.

I am bigger than I should be but I dont look square, made of corrugated iron and live underground....though the Mrs does say Im full of shit sometimes. LOL



Calling any QLDers to shed light on this evil and demeaning insult.

[Oversea Visitor]

76. Spectic tank

Its full of shit think he talk too much Bushit get my drift. I dont think you can shove that down any Australian throat.

Enough say.

[axollot]

116. I am a Queenslander/nanna bender;)

Yes, Queenslander's to the rest of Australia are considered back wards. Maybe its the heat*wink*
All you southerners sure do love to come for holidays though don't ya?
The term 'sepo' is used a LOT, it can be derogatory or in jest (as I experienced it with my closest friends).
I was always more Aussie than American. I even have a very strong Qld accent.

I also have NEVER EVER been told or heard that the term 'Aussie' is derogatory. I mean every Aussie I knew referred to themselves as Aussies. Just like Sharon is Shazza and Karen is Kaz or Kazza....Aussies know what I mean.

I was quite surprised however that little Johnny Howard was voted back in. But the Labor party was in for so long that Aussies most likely wanted a change. I cried the day the Liberals were elected for the first time.

I was still in Australia at the time. He won on the GST issue, this time he won on FEAR. Or rather the Party won. The Labor party just didn't have it together on the last election, they had to many issues, to many conflicting arguments. The liberals won over the middle class, where conventionally they would have voted Labor.

Aussies usually love Americans (in my experience) they do NOT love Americanization of the country however. And if anyone is hated in Qld its the Japs.

Ya know if they were Bush loving freaks in Brisbane UNIES than I am glad they are gone. Australia does not need their kind.

falling off my soap box (crash)
cheers
sandy

[Matilda]

48. I find this story hard to credit

partly because it's Murdoch press, and partly because, sad to say,
I don't think Iraq matters much to most Australians any more. I wish
it did, but judging from the peace marches held on the last two
anniversaries of the invasion, the numbers have dropped from the
250,000 marching in February of 2003 in Sydney, to less than a
thousand the past two years. It just isn't important any more.

And yes, "septic" is a term used for Americans, and it isn't
complimentary, although I've never heard "sepo". Perhaps we do have
here an American who is just obnoxious - every country has its good
and bad citizens. But I've seen no evidence of hate against
Americans here - Bush yes, but Americans generally, no.

[interupt]

51. Thats what I was thinking...

We had the idiot police trainees here in Perth go off at some US students and Notre Dame but since then I haven't heard much about villification of US citizens.

Thanks for the info about "septic" Never heard of it personally, but then again I am in Perth: Up late and last to know about anything. ;)

[Violet_Crumble]

53. So I'm not out of the loop when it comes to 'sepo'?

I thought Canberra may have been a little oasis of freedom from the word 'sepo' when someone else in the thread was insisting their Australian friend told them the term was prevalent here...

Violet...

[interupt]

54. LOL you said Canberra and Oasis in the same sentence... n/t

[depakid]

57. Perth & UWA seemed to me

a pretty heads up place-

What I kinda got was that they see the rest of the world- and maybe America too much- as a stage.

And they're the audience!

PS: Perth's own Barry Marshall, MD turned PhARMA upside down with respect to antacids and ulcers-

Think about that the next time you toss a few down in Freemantle-

[JohnnyBoots]

92. We're fixing the press to begin the swing towrds an

invasion of Australia. The fact that they prefer cricket to baseball makes them defiant in the face of democracy, freedom is on the way!

[sweetheart]

56. Personal dislike of americans is on the rise the world over

Is in "the economist" for peets sake. An anecdotal story from down
under fails to communicate the magnitude of this problem... it is very
serious, and impacts millions of americans abroad who face potential
violence and hate crimes because of bush's criminality.

I say hang the bastard and give us our country back. (after a fair
lynching trial of course)

[Malikshah]

60. If that's the worst they get, they should consider themselves lucky

At least their country was carpet bombed and occupied.

If they're against the war, they should make sure to let all know it.

They should work to change things at home.

If they can't take the heat--then they should come back and dress down their parents and others who may have votes for the pieces of filth that are driving this country to ruin.

Life's pretty shitty right now--we all have to suck it up and deal.

On edit:

Oh, BTW-- have a nice day. :)

[brentspeak]

62. What is this? The "It's OK to abuse Americans for no reason" thread?

I don't care what someone here or in another country thinks about Bush or the Iraq War -- if they harass me just because I happen to be an American, they're no better than some skinhead who terrorizes blacks, immigrants, or Jews.

If that happened to me as a traveller, the big mouth who physically threatened me might have to make an appointment to see a good dentist afterwards.

[Malikshah]

63. Good, then you'd be proving them right

Fight first and reason later.

"No reason?"

Hows about 100,000 reasons. IN OUR FUCKING NAME???

Sorry folks-- we represent our country wherever the hell we go-- it comes with the territory--

Simply put--- as members of a "democracy" we are more morally culpable for going to war and its results than members of a dictatorship.

In otherwords-- suck it up and deal. Reason with folks, start a dialogue. Explain that you're fighting the good fight to get the bastards out.

As for going for the whole limpnoodle "put up your dukes" option first...well, then, you're just proving them right.

[brentspeak]

65. Spare me, please

The article talks about Americans being harassed and threatened just for being Americans. It is the Aussies (individual Aussies) who are the ones doing the provoking, who are trying to start a fight. Not the other way around.

If someone -- I don't care who it is or where they're from -- harasses or threatens me, I, like most normal human beings, might first try to defuse the situation -- even though its hardly our fault in the first place. And if that doesn't work, I, like most normal human beings, will defend myself as necessary.

If you wish, if you feel so personally responsible for Bush's actions. you can allow yourself to be abused to your heart's content.

[muriel_volestrangler]

69. But it also talks about Australians criticising Bush and the USA

"I have had a few incidents in bars. I had a guy and he heard my accent and he said: 'I hate your president. I hate your country.' "

To which the answer is "yeah, so what? That's political criticism." While part of the article says it's individuals being criticised just for being Americans, they also throw in the 'incident' above, when the Australian said nothing personal at all. It's quite possible that some, or even most, of these students are claiming that abuse of Bush is the same as abusing them personally. After all, we know that Repulbicnas do act like that.

[Malikshah]

104. Please yourself

I don't feel responsible,

Rather I was reacting to the pugilistic response.

It takes two to tango--being provoked is one thing, responding in kind is another.

As ever, though-- the line "you can allow yourself to be abused to your heart's content" says it all.

Don't recall stating that I'd bare my throat to the wolves. Just that I'd not take the "they'll have to see a dentist" route first. When challenged on this--I get the tiresome..."well, if you're gonna wimp out" angle.

Where have I seen that line before?

In the midst of all this-- my core message of suck it up and deal appears to have been ignored. You don't quit (a la the headline) you stick it out and prove them wrong and make them realize what asshats they are. Quitting can imply so many things, many of which are negative.

But hey--if folks want to bluster, stick out their chests and all-- go for it. enjoy.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Obamarama]

98. I am no door mat, trust me....

But I have also lived overseas: one summer in Germany; six months in the UK; and two years in France. I think I can speak on this issue with some experience behind me. I ran into several occasions where people criticized the US and US foreign policy. A few people were downright rude about it. Did I throw myself down and become an American doormat? Hardly.

Instead of "putting my dukes up" and pummeling them, I used intellect and reason to debate and discuss. In some cases I agreed with their comments and observations, in which case they were appreciative of the fact that Americans are not myopic when it comes to their own country. In many cases I did not agree with their views and perceptions. Again, I gave them the perspective of an average American. Sometimes they came around to a better understanding, and if not we at least agreed to disagree in a civilized manner.

Unfortunately, due to disasterous foreign policy (by several previous administrations, but ESPECIALLY the current administration) Americans need to understand we're going to occasionally be the targets of verbal abuse in other parts of the world. The vast majority of citizens of other countries are not going to harass Americans. They can seperate Americans from the American government.

Your problem is that you seem to be cut from the same cloth as the people who would venture to verbally abuse an American. Neither one of you would have the intellect or grasp of decency to debate and discuss your differences like two human beings. The result: neither one of you are better than the other, and both of you would make your fellow countrymen look like complete assholes and perpetuate stereotypes for the other neanderthals who think and act the same as you.

Have you ever even been overseas? If you have, you should know better. If you haven't, do us all a favor and stay home with your clenched fists and nationalistic testosterone and leave cultural ambassadorship to those of us who give a damn.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[foreigncorrespondent]

101. Ok enough!

1. It is a fucking Murdoch rag that has this article in it. Do you really want to give so much credence to Murdoch when it suits you?

2. If this story is in fact true, then you might want to actually ask the Aussies first their side of the story, rather than jumping to hasty conclusions.

3. There is no such thing as an ugly Australian. We are quite well mannered when we travel abroad. But, I have met quite a lot of Americans (usually republicans) with a mentality very much like yours of fight now get answers later who are truly ugly Americans.

Now if you want to talk about ugly people from a country treating their guests with such hostility, shall I take you back to 9/11 when a British friend and myself while in America (I was actually with my American born partner) were told to get the fuck back to our own countries because foreigners were no longer welcome in the U.S. Not a very nice thing to happen.

We all have ugly travel stories to tell. But in this case I think a lot of it is usual right wing hype. And you have given way to much credit to a Murdoch owned rag.

[bpilgrim]

93. you are way out numbered to be speaking that way

and YOU might wind up seeing more than a dentist.

welcome to the REAL WORLD.

peace

[Redleg]

64. Sounds like a wussy Republican student who can't take the heat

for the problems dear leader is creating around the world. Hey, those Republican fuckers just can't take a bit of criticism. They act as though criticism of Bush is criticism of the messiah. Fuck 'em.

[gollygee]

83. I agree

these folks are a) taking themselves way too seriously and b) need to get over the fact that not everyone likes His Royal Majesty King George.

[axollot]

117. It would be HRH Queen Lizzy lol

George died some 50 years ago *wink*

[gollygee]

121. LOL I'm thinking of a different King George

HRM King George W. Bush.

:D

[axollot]

124. roflmao

I am waiting for him to change his title to something Royal!

[Mizmoon]

73. My friend went thru this years ago in Spain

Waaaaaaaaay before this war came up a buddy of mine went to study in Spain. The whole time there he was called "yankee" like it was his name. On the day that Reagan attack Libya and our fighters used Spanish airspace the school told him to stay home for his own safety.

I don't think it's really political, I think young people in general can be very cruel. I'm sure we have a few exchange students here who could tell a few tales about cruel Americans ...

[Logansquare]

146. I work at a university, and I have to agree

A some of our Muslim students, women wearing hijab, were harassed by some fellow students after 9/11. Recently an Indian student told me that he faced a hostile diatribe from an American student about outsourcing IT to India. (Like he has anything to do with it?) Most of our students are mature and have control over their impulses, but a few haven't made it emotionally out of junior high school; couple that with an ignorant, jingoistic view of the world and you get nationalistic thuggery.

[Oversea Visitor]

75. Simple

Septic tank what does it contain bushit.....
I think this guy try to sell Bush Virtue. Oh dear me think safest place for him is US.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

84. my niece did a year in Ireland went thru "hell" was also attacked.....

and when she went off campus told everyone she was Canadian because she didn't want to be abused...i sent her Canadian sweatshirts and caps with a maple leaf. she loved me for it and said it was the best thing i could have sent her.

[Vladimir]

102. I'm sorry to hear that

this kind of prejudice is inexcusable, whoever it is directed at.

[bertha katzenengel]

85. Ignorant jerks.

There's no shortage of this kind of ignorance anywhere in the world, is there? We're attacked for not supporting the president. And American students are attacked merely because they're Americans. :eyes:

[HockeyMom]

88. Two of my daughter's friends from school just came back from Australia

yesterday. They spent last semester and then some over there. But I do know both of them are very vocal anti war/anti Bush people. One girl even bought a "Bush is not MY President" shirt to take with her. My daughter got hers from this girl.

Maybe that made a difference. Who knows?

[JohnnyBoots]

89. Think they are pissed at known left wing students too?

[axollot]

100. Aussie/American and proud of it!

I am an Aussie/American and damn proud of it. I cannot believe these pussy's (sorry but they are)for running screaming out of Brisbane Unies for being called a 'sepo'. PLEASE!
If they had any knowledge of Australian culture, everyone gets a nick name.Americans are no exception. I was often called a sepo (by friends) 'septic tank yank' but it was always in JEST!
My thinking is these Yankee wankers were PRO BUSH and that is why they were extremely punished by all this.
Who can blame them? I hate Bush too. Aussies are a tough crowd but a friendly crowd. They love to tease and joke - obviously we have stupid Americans that cannot handle simple jokes. I am a Queenslander and I lived near Brisbane. My son still lives there.
How pathetic are these Americans that they cannot handle Queenslanders and their jokes?
Pussy's I say, Pussy's.
But there again, what backer of Bush isn't?

[LynnTheDem]

110. The Sunday Mail...nothing more need be said.

imo.

[axollot]

111. Does Murdoch own the Sunday mail?

I am out of touch with all Murdoch owns these days. I do remember many a Sunday going to the milk bar to buy the Sunday Mail. It was the only real Qld newspaper to read at the time.
I have only been out of Australia since 1999.
If it wasn't for my American husband and my aging mother I would be back to QLD in a "New York Second". LOL!
cheers mate
Sandy

[LynnTheDem]

115. Yeppers.

The only person that's a bigger MFing liar than Murdoch is bush himself.

[kineneb]

113. Last time I was in Europe, Feb. 2002,

I was very careful to try to blend in. The people were already against BushCo's war mongrering. I always tell people I am from California, not the US. And surprisingly, I never have a problem. Those students are probably running around with US flags on everything, rather like painting a target on themselves.

[onager]

114. Never had a problem either

I spent the beginning of this year in Egypt, and will be going back in a couple of weeks.

Many Egyptians told me, "We love Americans...but we don't love your President right now."

I always enthusiastically agreed with them, so I didn't have a problem. It was a little surprising that people were actually willing to just walk up and tell me that, though. I had a very pleasant chat with a Muslim woman for about a half-hour one day on that subject. She heard me asking directions and came over to help, since she spoke English and Arabic.

As far as Aussies, I once fell in with a bunch of them and I'm sure we all acted like insane people. But those were Aussie sailors and we were all in Amsterdam. ;-)

Now that I think about it, I've never been harassed and I've been all over the world. Europe, Middle East, Asia...

The thing about the French always struck me as more of a problem with over-entitled American tourists.

The way I look at it: people in Paris are just like people in New York (or L.A., where I live). Most of us are trying to get to work or whatever, and we don't have time to be your personal tour guide. We'll probably be polite if you ask directions, but not so polite if you expect us to stop what we're doing and draw you a personal map to all the tourist attractions.

[stickdog]

120. Aussies don't bother 49% (er, 52%) of Americans

You know, the ones whose hearts are in the right place:

[thespiritualzebra]

128. Another aussie here - a few more points:

- I'm from Sydney, I've never heard the term 'sepo' and I think it's insulting and that few Aussies would find it amusing. If I was a US
tourist and an Aussie called me that (highly unlikely imo) I'd probably avoid them and look for company that had graduated past the 'poo-poo head' stage of discourse.

- If you visit Australia you definitely won't need to wear an anti-bush or Canadian t-shirt to feel safe. Australians don't identify themselves very much with their leaders and like to keep conversation light (sometimes too light, but there's plenty of thinkers here too).

- The University I went to was totally nerdy, bland, multicultural and safe (UNSW).

- We get most of your TV shows/music/comedies and are well aware there are both rude and cool californians, texans, new yorkers etc.

- There are potentially dangerous pubs and places just like the US (in some suburbs or parts of the city), but most pub and nightlife in the city is completely civil and gay-friendly.

- Having said that Aussies tend to cringe at pomposity so an American who acts like s/he's 'the last, best hope of mankind' :rofl: or acts like Shooter McGavin from Happy Gilmore will not be well received.



- There are both progressive culturally-open and conservative culturally-closed types.

- Australian culture has been marketed to Americans as wild, violent and backward eg crocodile dundee, Mel Gibson movies, volatile gladiator Russell Crowe, Steve Irwin juggling babies with crocodiles; and the most dangerous spiders, snakes, sharks, jellyfish etc. This has more to do with marketing positioning than reality imo. I've never been in a serious fight or known anyone bitten by a spider or shark, just nibbled a bit:9

[K8-EEE]

129. All The Australians I've Met Have Been Lovely...

granted I've only met them over here, but some of my husbands friends took 6 month jobs there (animation industry) and they had a blast, no bad experiences at all.

So yeah, I was wondering if the complainers were just asses or somehow pushing buttons, provoking this reaction. RW collegiates tend to be pompous butthead know it alls, so they probably wouldn't go over to well in your neck of the woods!

[axollot]

134. Your out of touch.....or its an educated Sydney thing

Cause we "backward" ass's in QLD used the term all the time. IN JEST. Jesus can no one take a joke? Yank rhymes with tank, which rhymes with septic tank. Thus 'sepo' was born. Maybe in the wealthy areas of Sydney you would not hear such "trashy" terms. In Qld however it is COMMON.
I am more Aussie than American, I still heard it, rarely, with a giggle and an offer of a cuppa.

It was only done to tease not to hurt and I certainly was NOT hurt.

You have to make sure your ego isn't to weak when you live in Qld.

You are correct however about the marketing thing. But living near Stevie "idiot" Irwin, in QLD, I have a lot of friends that talk just like him....But we are QLD'ers (for Americans its like being a Texan without Bush ;)

[Josh]

137. Go UNSW!!

I'm there now; just got elected to the Union's Board of Directors - boy have we got a tough couple of years ahead of us after VSU passes the Senate next month. :(

[undeterred]

139. welcome spiritual zebra!

Totally irrelevant question here I am dying to ask:

Do you get LOST (the television program) in Australia? Its only been on for a year- its about surviors of a plane crash (plane is going from Syndney to LA) and they send up on an island in the south pacific. Its a great show, very popular here.

[DFWJock]

140. Australians

hate our freedom.

[GoldenOldie]

143. What is the background of the American Students??

If they come from a home schooled, fundie families, babied and catered to all their lives and this is their very first time away from home and out of country.....they cannot cope, so they blame others for their inability to function.

These kids might have a difficult time in a Stateside college setting. It takes time to adapt to new environments, college, new friends, situations, etc. These kids thrown into an entirely different culture, without the ability to absorb it and attempt to understand it are like babes with no street smarts.

My daughter and family have had the opportunity during the past 4-years to travel to Egypt, Turkey, Poland, Cyprus, Portugal, .....and many times they have had to say they were from Canada yet once they had the opportunity to be in a social setting with the locals and feeling safe to tell them that they were Americans, but they detested what Bush is doing, The majority of the Locals also stated that they love Americans, but they hate George W. Bush and they feel the loss of socializing with American travelers.....they feel that they had been given an opportunity for self education in English, geography, politics because Americans above all other travelers were open and willing to learn their culture as well as share their own.

[thespiritualzebra]

147. Thanks undeterred, Hi K8, others and aussies...

axollot, okay call me anal but if I was an American and someone called me sepo more than once or twice I'd tell them to stop calling me it, even if they were joking; just like if I was fat I'd tell someone to stop calling me tubs, or if from New Zealand 'sheeplover' etc.

I don't think it's just the wealthy areas of Sydney, most of my friends didn't go to Uni etc and I've never heard it but who knows.

I like Steve Irwin ("Oooh eez a bit grumpy, look at those GOOOOGLy eyes") and Russell Crowe but not realy Mel Gibson except for 'Maverick'.

undeterred, yes my sister watches Lost but I've never seen it.

Josh, I don't know alot about VSU but this myths-and-facts page I just read is excellent: http://www.vsu.com.au/myths.htm#what_anch It makes me miss Uni.

lol DFW Jock

Yes GoldenOldie, when I went to the US I found everyone especially friendly and open (cali, nevada, west virginia).

[BooScout]

149. I think this is BS

I travel quite frequently to the UK and have traveled all over Europe as well. Most people in this world are able to distinguish between America as a country and American as an individual. I have never been yelled at or attacked or threatened for being an American.

Somehow I think this student was probably a Republican loudmouth brat who probably was obnoxious once too often.

[neuvocat]

153. Likewise.

Why don't I get the image of black or minority exchange students carrying on like that?

[VegasWolf]

152. Since when is "Bush is a dumb asshole!" a slur against the US. nt