LAT: Meth's Grip in Midwest Strangles Authorities

[DeepModem Mom]

Meth's Grip in Midwest Strangles Authorities
By Stephanie Simon, Times Staff Writer


....A decade after meth took hold in the heartland, the inexpensive, highly addictive home-brewed stimulant is straining rural law enforcement resources to the breaking point.

The Polk County Jail in central Iowa is so packed with addicts that the sheriff sends the overflow out of state, at a cost of $5 million a year. Indiana's state crime lab has such a huge backlog of meth cases that the governor has appealed for help from chemistry graduate students.

In central Missouri, nearly every case of child abuse involves meth. Social workers in Franklin County keep a log of parents under investigation and the circumstances involved; this spring, it read: Cocaine. Meth. Medical and physical neglect. Meth. Sexual abuse. Meth. Meth. Manufacturing meth....

***

Meth is not just a Midwestern drug. It's popular among club-hoppers in Miami and gay men in New York City. It poses a challenge for law enforcement in cities such as Phoenix, Sacramento, San Jose and Honolulu, where two out of every five men arrested test positive for meth.

But it's in the Midwest that the drug has most severely tested the justice system, in part because sheriff's deputies, jail wardens and crime lab technicians in rural counties don't have the resources or the experience to deal with a drug epidemic....


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-meth27jun27,0,1131725,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[Robb]

1. Interestingly, this has an economic side

Our EMS just finished a two-day meth "workshop." It's found a haven in small rural communities because once you're hooked on it, the best bet is to make it.

$200 in raw ingredients from Wal-Mart not only nets you the drug, but can be turned around for about $500 if you sell it. Doesn't seem like much in the city, but it's about right if you're paying $150/month to live in an RV park.

[liberal N proud]

3. Most stores have alerts set up on the scanners

If a customer purchase a set amount of key items used to make Meth, they cashier is alerted and it requires a manager to clear the alert.
They are supposed to alert authorities when they see this activity.

[Robb]

5. Out here we have "gatherers"

The producers pay a bunch of kids to run to different stores and gather the goodies. Some 15-year-old buys four gallons of bleach, sets off no flags. Another picks up a car battery. Meanwhile, they get a $20 for the effort.

Never underestimate the resourcefulness of the poor. :(

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Yes, this is a big problem in MO and KS

and has been for nearly 10 years now. It is easy to cook meth in the country with fewer nosy neighbors. And the money to be made is fairly significant. There aren't as many meth labs in the city anymore but they seem to be muliplying rather rapidly in rural areas.

We have had several kids from meth lab families at my school. We figure it out because they reek of meth lab chemicals. The smell is just like cat urine, only stronger. And it doesn't wash out of their clothes. How parents could do this to their kids is beyond my comprehension.

[fishnfla]

34. the article indicates evry case of child abuse in one area is due to

meth. Sad

and bush is outsourcing even the law enforcement

[mom cat]

52. And Bush is cutting funds to law enforcement officials:

"Though the White House acknowledges that meth presents "a unique problem" for law enforcement, President Bush has proposed cutting the two main grant programs for rural narcotics teams — one by 56% and the other by 62%, according to John Horton, associate deputy director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy.

The administration plans to focus instead on the meth superlabs in Mexico and along the border. With a "belt-tightening budget," that's the most efficient way to run the war on drugs, Horton said.

Lt. Steve Dalton, who heads a drug unit in southwest Missouri, said: "If those cuts go through, they're going to wipe us out. Meth is a totally different drug from everything we've seen. It's extremely stressful on law enforcement."

"Law and order" was always just a code phrase for locking up Black people. No repukes don't really care.

[anitar1]

71. Maybe the Pukes are not getting into enough

of the money action. Wouldn't be surprised at anything these days. Can't help feeling bitter about all the hideous stuff that happens everyday in this country. We are being cut off at every turn. Maybe we will become a vigilante society.

[High Plains]

59. Ah, for the good old days

Before meth, when there was no child abuse.

[stevedeshazer]

61. There was child abuse before meth,

But are you suggesting that meth doesn't contribute?

There's really no question about that.

[BBradley]

67. There's really no question about it... sound argument there, friend.

It's still ultimately the individual, and not the substances that is responsible for their actions.

[Maat]

79. I quite disagree.

I'm not saying that individuals are not responsible for their actions.

HOWEVER ... there is NO question about it.

In seven years of social worker, I observed unimaginable things done to children due to parents' methamphetamine abuse.

It makes one paranoid, delusional, violent and extremely dangerous, generally.

In over 95% of the cases in which children were taken into custody, on my caseload, methampetamine abuse was involved.

And yes, in my humble opinion, a basically 'good,' law-abiding citizen can become a MONSTER a few days into consistent methamphetamine abuse.

Kind people become violent (because we would all be violent under certain circumstances) and the drug promotes a surreal scary existence within a person's mind, and hence, externally to them (in their perception).

I retired five years ago; but, now I'm back working for a law firm that contracts with the county - things have gotten worse.

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. Yep we had cops

while Clinton was in office.

[SemperEadem]

48. economy bottoms out, drugs move in

And in areas where there is no local industry, just agricultural based businesses which aren't paying much at all. It's too easy for drugs to move in and take root in those areas. I'm not surprised at all about the proliferation of meth in the heartland. For some reason, the prevailing notion of the heartland harkons back to a time that never was... it isn't Smallville.

[Mari333]

4. Lack of jobs is why its all over here in Michigan

hell, a group of kids on a hike accidentally found a meth lab here in the rural woods .. The only jobs here pay 5-6 dollars an hour, and the unemployment rate in my town is 11 %..I have to drive 35 miles to work everyday to make a little more then that..so, when Michigan winter hits, people freeze or use money from illegal drugs to get by..grammas oxycontin is also sold ..there are drug houses all over, and crime is wayy up because so many people are hooked. Welcome to Bush Amerika.

[oscar111]

7. LONGER WORK HOURS the cause of taking it?

why do more want to buy it?

is it the increase in work hours per job under 25 yrs of RW and center right rule?

and some working 2 jobs?

I understand poor folks making it, but why the increase in folks buying it?

can we blame the RW here?

[Dora]

10. Having used meth before....

I can't speak to why people are taking it now, but I can share why I was using it when I did. It feels good and it's cheap.

Initially, it was a lark. Something to do, and I liked it. I think any user would tell you as I do: the rush from meth is euphoric and long-lasting. When high, I felt strong, capable, clear-headed and full of endurance. I could dance and party all night, then get up the next morning and work a 10-hour day waiting tables. Even when my usage progressed and the euphoria waned, I still relished how strong I felt and how capable I thought I was. My mind always felt clear and focused. As well, it was an economical drug to use: a huge payoff for a small investment. IIRC, back in the day I paid $25 for a quarter-gram (I may be wrong, I was never good with the quantities thing), and that would last me anywhere from 2-5 days (I was a lightweight).

It creates huge emotional instability in the user, and one of the results of the long-term sleep deprivation results in paranoia and obsession. It can alter the brain's natural chemistry (which is already at risk because of all the toxins in our environments), and in those people who are at risk for mental illness, it's a giant ticking timebomb. My brother went bonkers during his meth use, and I don't think he'll ever fully recover: it's been thirteen years now since his last meth crash and he's still just a little "off."

I don't know if he remembers some of the stuff he did in "the last throes" of his addiction, but I'll never forget the looooong Christmas night he spent in my apartment, watching for the cops through my miniblinds, and opening and closing my closets and cabinets all night long looking for cameras and bugs.

Added on edit: As for those who are using it now, I imagine the motivation for initial use is probably more driven by fatigue than anything else. But you have to look at the user, too. The reasons a 19 year old girl has for using meth are probably very different from the 40 year old dad's, and his reasons are different from the 50 year old single woman's. My use began as strictly recreational, then it trickled over into my work because it kept me going strong. I bet there are scores of users out there who began to use it as a boost at work, and who then began using it "recreationally" in order to keep going at home.

[DeepModem Mom]

11. Thanks for sharing your personal knowledge and experience, Dora --

best to you.

[Delphinus]

12. Thanks, Dora.

This is always my question - why do people do them? I think if we could figure out why, we could address the problems that the drug "seems" to solve. Most people just look at the problem and write new laws, or build more jails, instead of dealing with the real issues.

[Occulus]

83. I smoked pot because it put all my problems at one remove.

That's enough. Pot did that, and I never tried any other drug. It helped me to cope with memories I can't get away from, memories I'm forcibly and in all honesty unintentionally re-exposed to every working day of my life.

IT is utterly ridiculous for therapists et al to label some forms of self-help 'healthy' and some 'unhealthy'. I HAD a very, very psychologically and emotionally satisfying way of dealing with my problems. I got punished for my healty self-therapy over and over, from fellow students, parents, and teachers alike... all the time being told how 'good' it was that I was 'so talented'.

That didn't keep me from getting verbally beaten by literally everyone around me. That didn't stop that healthy method of expression from being forcibly taken from me, by my own family.

Then they had the nerve to wonder why I turned to pot. Well, DUH- they took away the only form of self-expression I had, the only way I had ever found to deal with my frustrations and internal self-doubts and lack of self-confidence.

I could have been a high school music teacher. It was what I desperately wanted to do with my life. When my family forced me away from that, they took away the single pillar of solidity I had in my life.

IT's not meth, but it's the same problem, all over again. Society didn't want what I had to offer, so why the fuck not?
Drug use happens when people lose hope. Drug use happens when people lose income. Drug use happens when families live in stress and strife. Drug use happens when people are alone in their lives. Drug use happens when depression is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

Drug use continues when no solutions to these problems exist, when no matter how much therapy or 'legit' drugs you take, the root cause stubbornly remains. True healing.... that's something very, very few people are ever blessed with once they're harmed.

The legal system remains blissfully uncaring. It doesn't want true solutions to these problems, because if those solutions actually work, there goes the lucrative drug war. And it IS lucrative. Don't ever let any law enforcement officer, or DEA agent, or anyone else tell you anything different.

[progressivebydesign]

22. Affluent women have been known to use it for energy and weight loss..

unfortunately they don't see the inevitable downward spiral of using it... and often end up losing everything, or in drug rehab.

[Dora]

26. Oh, yes...

I had forgotten about that. I knew a woman who started taking Phen-Fen after having a baby, but when her doctor wouldn't renew the Rx, she just switched to meth.

In addition to a speeding metabolism and increased energy output, the weight loss is also from the appetite being completely suppressed. People just won't eat or drink when they're using meth. Of course, the body will respond to this abuse - anorexia, massive tooth decay (dentists call it "meth mouth"), dehydration and its side effects, etc.

[LeighAnn]

74. I've known people who used it for weight loss

A couple of girls I knew didn't mess with it until they got to "feeling fat", then they'd binge out on it for a week or two then stay away until they stared putting on weight again.



http://www.skeletonpeople.com

[NVMojo]

76. Is meth the same as calling someone a "crack" user?

anyways, your comment about the emotional stuff when someone is on it hits home. My son recently admitted to using it. Can't even begin to describe the emotional behaviour he displayed. Worse than any drama queen I've seen.

[Dora]

84. Nope - crack is another form of cocaine.

Meth is crystal methamphetamine. Cocaine is derived from the coca plant, but is processed and often "cut" or mixed with other chemicals or drugs as filler. Meth is entirely chemially derived. I've also heard it called "crank."

That's too bad about your son, but please don't let this knowledge frighten you too much. Yes, meth is a terrible drug, but people can use it and walk away whole. Yes, the addiction is a drag, the dramas are terrible, but quitting and and being whole are still possible.

:hug:

[Maat]

81. Blessings to you, Dora.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Thank Spirit you left it behind.

Good luck in the future!

[Mari333]

15. One has to work 2 jobs to survive

and then its just barely..you cannot make it on 5 dollars an hour.

[MadHound]

6. This isn't just effecting law enforcement and social services here.

It is effecting other emergency services, especially firefighters. Also, it is making miniature toxic waste sites all over the state. Mark Twain National Forest, has literally dozens of small site that can't be used due to meth cleanup.

Frankly, I think we should legalize this and other drugs. It has become blatantly obvious that humans have an inate need to change their concious state, and will go to any lengths to achieve that. Legalizing all drugs, including meth, will open up another tax stream, will insure that the product is manufactured safely and cleanly, and the public will not have to suffer the violence, crime, toxic waste, and other side effects of the drug trade. Also, judging by other country's experimentation with drug legalization, after the initial uptick in use due to the euphoria factor, drug use of all kinds will go down.

It is time to stop this insane drug war. It serves no good, all the while stripping up of our civil rights and allowing the select few, police depts, city officials, criminals, and corrupt officials up and down the line to make obscene amounts of money. One would have thought that we would have learned out lesson from Prohibition, but apparently not.

[Dora]

9. I agree and disagree.

I agree with your remark about our human search to alter our states of consciousness. Also, I support the legalization of marijuana. But I just can't believe that legalizing ALL drugs would be of societal benefit. However, I do support the idea of decriminalizing all illegal drug offenses.

I haven't thought about this at any great length, and I'm not a drug policy scholar, but I speak from personal experience. I had a leetle problem with meth in the late 80's, and my brother had a biiiig problem with meth that lasted for a few years. I've seen (experienced) first-hand the damage it does to the user, and I just can't support the idea that it should be legalized. Likewise, I think heroin and other opiates should be illegal, and abuse of pharmaceutical narcotics should also be illegal.

That said, the drug war does need to stop, and now. But I think we can decriminalize illegal drug use without legalizing those drugs that truly are harmful to the user/addict. Likewise, the manufacturing of a drug like meth should always be illegal, and should be appropriately sanctioned; labs are hazardous and toxic, and I think that running a meth lab is criminal. Being a meth addict, however, is just sad.

[MadHound]

13. Interesting position, but I have to disagree, here's why.

In countries that have legaized various drugs, after there is an initial upswing in use(euphoric use), the usage and addiction rates go down. Something that is legal loses some of that outlaw charm, and as time passes, it just becomes passes. This is seen time after time, including here in the US after the end of prohibition. Hell, up until ninety years ago, all drugs were legal and easily available here in the US, and yet we didn't have a drug problem anywhere near to what we have now. Yet coke, heroin, morphine, speed, marijuana, all this and more were easily available at the corner drug store.

There have been experiments done with heroin addicts in England, where the addict takes the tube into town, stops off at the clinic on his way to work, gets his morning shot of heroin, goes to work, is a happy, productive, tax paying citizen. After work, he stops off at the clinic, gets his shot, goes home on the tube, and enjoys his evening at home, or out on the town. Rather than ripping people off, or endangering himself and others to feed his habit, he is a happy, well paying citizen, working and paying taxes.

It is obvious that you and your brother didn't let a little thing like the law stop you from acquiring meth. In fact the law doesn't stop anyone from procuring whichever drug they wish to use and abuse. What the law does do is twofold. First, it forces the entire market undergroud and makes those drugs insanely expensive. Thus, you open up society to a whole host of secondary crimes. I used to live in a neighborhood with dueling crack houses up the street. Thus, the entire neighborhood was open to the attendant crime wave, burglary, gunfights, assault etc. Yes, we finally managed to bring the neighborhood under control(mostly without the help of police), but that means that the crack houses and attendant problems simply moved elsewhere, we didn't put them out of business. Thus, it was simply a case of another neighborhood having to deal with the problem. Secondly, the anti-drug laws strip us of our civil rights, and it also enriches the few. Malcolm X had a famous saying that cops, criminals and politicians all walk hand in hand in hand, and nowhere is this more apparent than with the War on Drugs and the drug trade. The criminal makes money off the drugs to pay off cops and politicians, cops make money off the drug trade via forfiture and corruption, to pay off politicians, politicians make money off of corruption and forfiture, to kickback to everybody else. Everybody skims some of the cream off in all transactions, and boy how does the money roll in, for the select few.

Meanwhile, we the taxpayer, are hosed coming and going. We're victims of the crime wave that accompanies drug prohibition, our civil rights are stripped away, we pay an increased share of taxes to fund largely futile gestures meant to stop the drug trade, and we suffer all the penalties for living in a country that bans all drugs. I live out in rural Mo now, and the house and land that I worked so hard for could be immediately renderd valueless and uninhabitable if an illegal meth lab is busted anwhere within a mile radius or more. EPA could condemn it all, and I will be left with my dreams shattered, and out several thousand dollars. Whereas, if meth was legal, it could be manufactured in a controlled process and enviroment, where the toxic waste is disposed of properly, and I wouldn't have to worry about being run off my land.

Sorry friend, but I strongly disagree with you on this. We have kept up this War on Drugs for over thirty years, and the only thing that has changed is that the drug problem in this country has become larger and more dangerous, while tranferring literally billions of dollars into the pockets of the criminals, police and politicians. The tactics that we're using and have used have proven time and again to be useless, if not downright dangerous to American citizens. It is time we used a new approach, something more sensible. One definition of insantiy is doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting a different result everytime. The drug war has been a collective form of insanity along this vein, and the time to stop this madness is now. Otherwise this country will sink under the burden of this corruption and crime. Legalize it all, tax it, manufacture it, and let the individual decide for themselves. The addiction rate will fall, crime will fall and corruption will fall. We will restore some measure of sanity to our country, something that is in short supply right now.

[Dora]

18. We agree on the core issue

But despite your cogent and persuasive argument, I still don't see that legalizing meth manufacturing will be of benefit. We'll still have people manufacturing meth because they can - why should they buy it from The Man when they can make it themselves?

However, I'll stand next to you and cheer at any End the Drug War Rally any day.

Cheers.

[endarkenment]

20. purity and price

By the way meth was widely prescribed for 20 or more years and widely available on the black market and not a huge problem. It became a huge problem as the War On Drugs drove up the price of safer alternatives and created a profit center around the local production of drugs like meth.

[anitar1]

73. Thanks Madhound for making me think more clearly.

I totally agree about the money train in this country. I believe that almost every town has corruption at higher levels of authority. Your post makes a lot of sense to me. I've been around quite awhile and have seen this drug war fail over and over.. Prisons are loaded with drug users and as we know many are there for marijuana use. It seems insane to me that a person would be put in a state prison for smoking pot. We have a terrible problem in our schools with drug use, as everyone knows. But, I think the religious extremists would never go for a sane program.

[Maat]

82. I couldn't have said it better, Dora ..

as a person who has worked with methamphetamine addicts for 12 years now.

I support the medical use of marijuana - a doctor will be advising the person.

I support even legalizing marijuana; but since that can't happen to the law of the land (treaties we have signed), I support decriminalizing marijuana to the point to which it's just a ticket.

I support decriminalizing abuse of methamphetamine and heroin - in the sense that I would like to see everyone get a chance, or two or three, to get into a comprehensive rehab program (which addresses everything from twelve-step concepts to job skills to general therapy and self-esteem training).

If you are involved in minor sales, once again, let's get you help.

If you're in 'middle management,' sales or production, you get jail time.

If you're in 'upper management,' we need to lock you up and throw away the key - for reasons which have very little to do with one's own addiction.

[progressivebydesign]

23. NEVER legalize Meth. EVER.

I can't disagree with you more on that. NEVER, ever. You think legalizing it will stop the public health crisis caused by that shit? You think it will help the children destroyed by parents using meth? You think that more meth addicts are a good thing? Perhaps you don't really understand the true costs of meth users, or the ravaging and psychological affects of using it. You couldn't possibly know, otherwise you'd never consider legalizing it.

[Dora]

27. I agree.

Meth is a terrible drug. I think it's worse than heroin. I do think usage should be decriminalized, but the manufacturing should never be made legal.

[MadHound]

28. Sorry, but I live in the heart of meth country

And we here in Mid Mo have to deal with the fallout from this shit everyday. I live with the Sword of Damacles dangling over my life. You people are in a fucking freak out about the possiblity that somebody with come and repocess your home via eminent domain, try living in my shoes. If a meth manufacturer gets popped within a mile of my house, my property is worthless for resale, and it is quite likely it will be declared a toxic waste site, and the EPA will pay me pennies on the dollar as they condemn it. YOU want to live with that? Neither do I, but I have to every fucking day of this damn Drug War.

Ooo, and then there are tweaked out rednecks that I get to live with. Yay, I moved out from the inner city hell hole of dueling crack dens into the rural hellhole of meth labs.

No I don't fucking think that meth addicts are a good thing, but you know what, if you actually legalized the shit, your addiction rate would go down, especially if you used some of that tax revenue that you would be recieving for education and prevention programs. Also, legalizing the shit would take care of illicit meth labs, and many of the nasty side effects of meth usage, like meth mouth and other shit that one gets by taking pseudo-crap like meth rather than other more pure forms of speed and amphetamines.

Sorry, but prohibition doesn't and hasn't worked, and it is people like myself who are paying the price for the scourge of illegal meth. Legalize it, watch the addiction rates go down, watch the side affects go down, and watch the attendant problems of crime and toxic waste sites go down. And don't say that I don't know whereof I speak friend. I live in some serious meth country, and until you move out here and experience this shit up close and personal, you have no place to criticize. We've tried it your way, and it hasn't worked. It is time for something radically different.

[bemildred]

31. Well said.

Meth is a BIG problem, but criminal process will NEVER fix it, and you will never eliminate the black market without de-crim.

[elemnopee]

36. De-criminalization does not equal legalization

There is a difference in treating drug abuse as a sickness and a crime. We should treat Meth addicts not lock them up.

There is a commonly reported statistic that for every tax dollar spent on rehab centers six tax dollars are saved.

[bemildred]

49. True, that. nt

[Kraklen]

44. Those "ravaging effects of meth."

Are those caused by the methamphetamine itself, or by the dangerous chemical contaminants from back alley meth production?

[bemildred]

50. Speed, any kind of speed, really will mess you up.

Which is not to say that dirty speed won't do the job faster.

[Kraklen]

51. So then it's a bit like prohibition, no?

I mean, one of the problems with prohibition was that because it was only produced in nasty bathtubs people were being poisoned by contaminants. That's why they call it rotgut. People were dying when at worst they should be getting a nasty hangover.

[bemildred]

53. Very. Harm reduction is the way to go, the only sensible guide.

Education, treatment, advertising ban, etc. etc.
Meth is worse than Alcohol or Heroin though, IMHO,
more like Coke or PCP, and very addictive like tobacco.

But you never will fix it with cops.

[Pirate Smile]

8. You now have to show your drivers license and they do a background

check to see how many antihistamines you have purchased over the last month - it is added up in their database.

There is a limit to how much can be purchased per month.

You have to request it from the pharmacist and they keep it behind the counter in the pharmacy.

I have allergies and I can't buy the non-drowsy stuff and the drowsy (for nighttime) at the same time. I also can't buy medicine for the kids at the same time as I buy my medicine. It also will all go against my limit :shrug: Only one product can be purchased at a time.

This will be interesting in the Winter when everyone is sick and the girls need the liquid children's medicine but my son will only take the pills, plus my Husband and I want non-drowsy and nighttime medicine.

If the pharmacy is closed, tough luck; if you need more then one product, tough luck.

The pharmacists have to deal with all the extra work. They aren't exactly happy about it.

Buying allergy pills now makes you feel like a criminal.

I don't really blame them but it is a bit of a shock the first time you get ID'ed and have a background check run on you for trying to buy some Sudafed.

[Patiod]

35. Yikes. I get a sinus infection every year, and pseudoephedrine

is the only thing that helps without knocking me out (it does make me really mean, though).

Just this year they started keeping the stuff under lock and key, and I had to jump through hoops to get it. Not fun.

[elemnopee]

37. Do you see why that's necessary?

I certainly do, meth destroys lifes and famalies. I wish there were ways around showing identification, but no new approaches have been suggested.

Is there a way that the pills could be manipulated so they could not be cooked? (Sorry I haven't taken chemistry in years)

[Patiod]

41. I totally see why it's necessary

But it's still a pain in the ass -- I usually go through 2-3 packs of generic time-release pseudoephedrine in the 10 days my sinus infections take to run their course (I've found over the years that OTC-treated-sinus infection time = MD + RX-treated sinus infection time.)

I've had the same question about manipulating the pills - I know that Oxyocontin can be manufacturered in a way so that crushing it and removing the time-release coating will release a drug that will conteract oxycodone's effects. The problem is that it would be too costly to do something like this to a generic OTC drug like pseudoephedrine.

[elemnopee]

58. that's true

I also don't think people that cook meth are buying the pills through legal outlets.

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. They buy over the counter cold meds

to make the meth. That's why it is so hard to get cold meds now.

[AllyCat]

85. Many are buying legally. They go shopping from pharmacy to

pharmacy. They buy 10-15 boxes at one place and then go down the street to the next. That's why you can only buy two boxes or so at a time, have to show ID, and sign a form here in Wisconsin.

Do I think this legislation is going to work? Well, probably not, but it might stop some of the inexperienced, small timers...for awhile.

No other ideas have been put on the table. I wish someone would find a way to guard the fertilizer storage facilities better.

[Hershman]

66. Not likely

because the active ingredient has to be able to be absorbed and processed by the body to get the effect. Although it may be possible to change the structure of the actual molecule to make it harder to cook, although since its so cheap that isn't likely to happen.

[anitar1]

75. There is a bill in the Oregon legislature now

That would require a prescription for anything in that line. Even Theraflu and those types of medication. One would have to go to a Dr. to get one. What do people do when they don't even have a Dr. or insurance? I think it is nuts. Just creates more problems and punishes the poor.

[liberalnurse]

14. I came across this article last week:

" Meth mouth: Ugly legacy of drug is taxing Utah jail, prison medical budgets".

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view2/1,4382,600140819,00.html

snip>

The 23-year-old Tippetts is not on a Utah college campus; she is in the Davis County Jail.
Tippetts has advanced evidence of what is known as "meth mouth" — a condition rampant among methamphetamine users and particularly evident in jail and prison populations throughout the country.
"It's pretty obvious when an inmate comes in addicted to methamphetamine," said James Ondricek, Davis County Jail nursing supervisor.
"They smile and you see their teeth all rotted out and fallen out at the gum line."

The unsightly "meth mouth" phenomenon has several implications for a Utah community already burdened by a methamphetamine crisis.
As has occurred as use of the drug has moved east, meth mouth is taxing dental budgets at Utah prisons and jails and in cities across the country like Minneapolis.; Raleigh, N.C.; Grand Rapids, Mich.; Portland, Ore.; and Knoxville, Tenn. In Utah, inmates now have to wait longer and longer for dental services because hours allotted for dental care are clogged by meth addicts with rotting teeth and painful abscesses.

Contract dentists are having to put in more time to keep up with the demand for dental visits. Some jails have a two-month waiting list.
Dentists at jails in Salt Lake, Davis, Weber and Utah counties say the vast majority of their patients are meth addicts. And this condition they call "meth mouth" is wreaking havoc on jail and prison dental budgets.
In Salt Lake County, for example, dental costs for inmates in the Salt Lake County Jail increased 30 percent between 2003 and 2004, according to Jared Davis in the county's finance office.
Dental costs for county inmates: $44,756 in 2003; $58,193 in 2004.
The county does try to charge inmates a co-payment for the teeth dentists yank, the abscesses treated and cavities filled. So, inmates do pay for a portion of their dental care. Inmates contributed nearly $9,000 in 2003 and nearly $12,000 in 2004.

[theophilus]

16. Jeepers, I guess the thousands that meth adversely impacts

don't count as opposed to the numbers of U.S. casualties FEARED from future terror attacks launched from Iraq by Saddam that evil doer. I wonder what a difference all of those billions would have made if put into truly building up our rural economies and providing other deterrents to the use and manufacture of this homemade hell? I guess we'll NEVER know.

This country thinks it is rich but it is truly in rags with cankerous sores and living in the gutter. Looks can be deceiving when it comes to moral and social bankruptcy.

[elemnopee]

38. I couldn't agree more

We can, but choose not to take care of our own.

[bemildred]

17. Dang, no peasants in Peru to attack this time. nt

[Mizmoon]

19. My uncle was a beat cop in NYC in the 1970s

Back when the place was more ... wild. There was a huge heroin problem. He'd find junkies all over the place - he called ambulances for them nearly every day. People were so fearful that they passed the rockefeller drug laws. They figured that if they didn't, the whole dang city would end up as junkies.

They were mistaken. It's easy to see why they got freaked out, but we can't make the same mistakes again. This will pass ...

[bettyellen]

57. heroin disappeared because of AIDS, not the rockerfella laws....

at least in harlem the law wasn't working...it took a just couple of years to switch over to 95% crack. but my brother, also a policeman, really missed the heroin junkies. much less volatile personalities, so much less violent were the heroin abusers. he said the crack addict period was the worst.

[progressivebydesign]

21. And local law enforcement is being strangled by unfunded mandates..

We're not in the Midwest, but I know our local law enforcement is being destroyed by unfunded mandates from the Feds and the State. We can't fund a war on Meth (which is the greatest drug crisis we have ever seen), because we are funding billion dollar payoffs to Cheney and Bush's friends to fight an illegal war.

The increasing poverty and underfunded education system also contributes to the meth problem. Meth is the ugliest social issue we have right now. It destroys entire families.

[The Night Owl]

24. How is this late breaking news?

:shrug:

[Dora]

29. Be careful what you ask.

I asked the same question about an LBN post last week and I was soundly chastised for it.

I was explicitly accused of being anti-Canadian, and somebody implied I was a freeper.

[barb162]

30. I have been wondering a lot about some of the posts lately in LBN,

although not this particular one as it is dated 6/27 LA Times. Five day old stuff is coming up on LBN and an awful lot of it.

[DeepModem Mom]

33. It's my understanding that coverage...

of significant national, and international, trends and problems is allowed in LBN, even though such issues have not had their beginning in the last 12 hours.

On edit: And as a practical matter, this article, which has spawned an informative and valuable discussion, would disappear from the first pages of GD in a nanosecond, and be seen by very few in the more limited forums. I understand your concern, however, and appreciate your interest in maintaining the integrity and effectiveness of LBN.

[madrchsod]

25. yup it sure is

it`s worse than anything i have ever seen . i watched the 60`s heroin and cyrstal meth additions ruin some of my friends but this shit is so much worse.

[davsand]

32. More and more I am coming to the viewpoint of legalize it.

It is toxic as hell, but if you legalize it you can help keep production sites at a reduced number. Additionally, (and I mean no offense to anyone who has ever been into Meth or any other illegal drug) you have to figure that the people who are gonna kill themselves with it will die off and reduce the need for it...

Now, before I get called a heard hearted asshole, let me say that I think EVERY possible program of treatment also needs to be made available at the same time. Similarly, we need to do a massive drug education movement (factual, not some fairy tale BS made up by Nancy Reagan) targeting our kids and the REST of our society.

I see this as several issues that come together/ intersect in one space. We are looking at a society that uses drugs at the drop of a hat--hell we are taught from birth that pills make you feel better. We are a society that does little support for mental health services, and we offer NO substantive free help for anyone wanting to try and deal with personal issues on an emotional level rather than a pharmacological one.

Forget about getting any REAL help for substance abuse issues because literally we (as a whole--not here at DU) are still stuck in the mindset that it is somehow a moral failure or personal weakness to be an addict. When the US gets past THAT, maybe we can begin to actually confront our drug use in this country.

Until that time, we better just do the best we can to make it it legal and maybe a bit safer.


Laura

[elemnopee]

39. I'm not sure about legalizing meth

Making it in protected conditions would help eliminate many of the "labs," but I question of allowing access to such a dangerous substance is truly the best approach? This is not marijuana.

I don't think there is a simple anwser. Simply chasing meth labs is pointless, for everyone that is shut down several more pop-up.

I think the best approach to dealing with addictions to hard drugs is to legalize marijuana. Marijuana is often criticized as a "gateway" drug. I believe this is only because it is illegal and only available at the same outlets as these substances, so take it out of that market.

[davsand]

45. I wish I did know the right answer.

I'd be happy if ANYBODY could figure it out--ya know?

I also think it is pretty much human nature to want to alter feelings/reality sometimes. If you look at it, fermented beverages go back a long ways in world history, and you just KNOW that it wasn't ALL because of impure water sources...

I think people are gonna do it in some form or another, and if you educate the general population about the dangers (in an honest way) you can reduce the number of seriously destructive addictions. What makes it very difficult, however, is there are different "highs" that come with different substances.

Smoking a big old fat joint is NOT gonna produce the same feeling as shooting a load of Meth into your arm (I am assuming that is the main avenue of ingestion for Meth addicts, so correct me if that is wrong.) Different delivery systems produce different feelings, as well.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, consider the idea that Advil or Tylenol Liquigels or liquid forms enter your system faster than do the pill forms. They are quick to advertise that as a selling point. If you have any drug that produces a "rush" it is gonna be more intense if it is delivered directly into the blood system, because of that same principle.

I, personally, think pot should have been legal a LONG time ago, because I consider it to be less stressful on your system than booze. The biggest thing holding pot legalization hostage, IMO, is the drug companies who do not want it freely available for other uses like treatment of Glaucoma, pain treatment and nausea from Chemo.

The rest of it--all those other drugs that are in the middle like the opiates and the hallucinogens--maybe they need to be examined on a case by case basis--I dunno. I honestly think, however, that making it legal can make it safer.


Laura

[Dora]

55. smoking or snorting

In my day meth was inhaled like a line of cocaine. When I quit (fifteen years ago, mind you), other users I knew were beginning to smoke it like crack. It's my understanding that smoking it is the common usage these days.

[davsand]

56. Snorting that stuff must burn like hell!

Gack! I can't EVEN imagine snorting anything like that--it'd HURT!

Thanks for letting me know! Shows you how out of touch I am these days!



Laura

[High Plains]

60. Gack

Funny, that's one of the drug's nicknames.

[Shakespeare]

87. The HBO documentary on meth showed shooting up as the preferred...

...method of intake. Wasn't pretty, but it's a documentary everyone should see, just so they understand how extensive the problem is, and so they can see what meth does to a body.

[FormerOstrich]

40. I read something awhile back....

I don't remember where but it made a lot of sense.

It was talking about how Meth is problematic for the US because of how we preach, threaten, and intervene to other companies to do something about the supply of drugs to the US. Yet, here we have Meth, a domestic made drug, and we can't seem to get a handle on the supply of it either.

[Dora]

42. We don't want to get a handle on the supply.

Our national meth problem is keeping the War-on-Drugs industry going strong.

[jsamuel]

43. "and gay men in NY City" ? --- huh? not just men, or ppl in NYC

hmmm... seems a little strange to put that in there

[sleipnir]

64. Not at all.

It's a drug here in NYC quite unique to the male gay community and I have had many friends correct me when I thought it a bit odd and perhaps overexagerated.

Yes, strange as it seems, Meths seems to have become the most popular club drug for gay men and oddly, only gay men in NYC. Not sure why it hasn't crossed over into the rest of NY's club scene, but it hasn't.

http://www.southernvoice.com/2005/6-17/news/national/meth-hiv.cfm

[fishnfla]

65. meth has been tied to an increase in HIV/AIDS

on the coasts. stoned people not practicing safe sex

[genieroze]

69. When I think of stoned, I think of downers. I would say wired to describe

uppers.

[Dora]

77. Someone on a meth binge is "tweeking"

IIRC

[noonwitch]

46. Meth is a problem in Michigan, but not in metro-Detroit

Crack and smack still rule supreme here.

[AllyCat]

86. If meth ever makes it into the big cities, we are in serious trouble.

[Sivafae]

47. I received this letter from Sen Boxer

"Dear Friend:

Few drugs have had such an impact on California communities as
methamphetamine. No area of the state has been spared the
wrath of this highly addictive drug. Rural areas are often the
manufacturing sites of this drug, and counties and the state
often spend huge sums for both the prosecution and
incarceration of those found guilty of possession of
methamphetamine and for mental health programs that must deal
with the long-term consequences of addiction. Abandoned labs
used to manufacture methamphetamine are a threat to people
living nearby and can contaminate buildings, adjacent land and
groundwater.

I recently joined almost 30 of my Senate colleagues in
cosponsoring the Combat Meth Act of 2005, S.103, authored by
Senator Jim Talent (R-MO). This legislation authorizes funds
to provide training to state and local prosecutors and law
enforcement agents for investigation and prosecution of
methamphetamine offenses, including a set-aside for prosecutors
and law enforcement agents working in rural communities. It
expands public safety and creates a community policing grant
program to hire personnel and purchase equipment to assist in
enforcement of methamphetamine laws. It also more tightly
controls the drugs used to manufacture methamphetamine and
authorizes grants to develop programs to assist children
endangered by exposure to methamphetamine.

I have talked with countless law enforcement officials in the
past years, and many tell stories of personal tragedy brought
about by methamphetamine addiction and exploding budget
deficits that result from the investigations, arrests,
prosecutions and incarcerations of those who commit crimes
associated with the drug. I believe this bill will go a long
way towards helping law enforcement better pay for the fight
against the effects of this horrible drug. Many other steps
are necessary if we are to fully address this problem,
including better drug treatment and drug education programs.
You can count on me to continue to work for effective drug
control programs.

Sincerely,

Barbara Boxer
United States Senator"

Honestly, I do not believe more law enforcement is the answer. But getting down to the reason people use will help greatly.I am not sure that legalization is the answer either, but worth a good think over.I honestly believe that the Bush Admin's lack of addressing this issue is akin to Regan's ignorance of AIDS/HIV in the 80's. This has been going on in the Midwest for sooooooo loooooong. It makes me so sad. I really wonder if these people have anything better to do. And in rural MO, I know how hard it can be to get a job, so maybe they don't.
This may not be LBN, but it is extremely important news that we need to look at and face on a constant basis. There are thousands, perhaps millions of people in pain and suffering due to this drug, how can we as countrymen ignore that?

[Algomas]

54. Well, maybe the cops are too busy busting pot smokers.

[Skypilot 18]

68. $5 million to lock em up ?

Considering these folks are suffering from a kind of sickness I think the $5 Million would be better spent on treatment instead of punishment. I don't see being sick (addiction is a sickness)as a reason to lock folks up.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

70. I'm right there with you..

The sad thing is that there are many meth addicts out there who can't get good, affordable treatment.

Let's just send them all to jail, even the ones who do want to recover. Hey, it's the law. :sarcasm:

Look at all the good this technique has done in the past. :eyes:

[CHICKEN CAPITOL USA]

72. HEALTH RISK is the REAL problem---get cancer in record time

this is the sad part of the whole deal with speed.
The users are not criminals or bad people because they use the drug.
They are just trying to feel good.
The problem is that when they smoke it, the smoked released from the heat/flame reaction is a different chemical all together and much more toxic to the body---combine that with not eating for days, deprivation of sleep, and you've got a recipie for health disaster.
It could take years or even less before strange illnesses dehabilitate the user--it it's not liver failure it could be nervous system damage or cancer.
Such a waste of life.
The users need free govt rehab and substitution of safer stimulants to ease them off the meth/crank.

I just saw a great show on the History Channel tonight on the use of meth and its history--troops using it in WWII etc.,--well worth checking out

[oscar111]

78. N. ARKANSAS: how big a problm, compred to peak problm MO?

Mossuri is the peak it seams of the problem.

What percent of that degree of a problem, is the area of Northeren Arkansas? {one of my aunts still has a farm there, near the MO border, equally east and west of the sides ofthe Ark state. i may want to warn her of the danger of property value loss if labs are being done in the area.}

thanks

[jeffrey_X]

80. the hypocrisy of America continues....

So this drug can be linked with midwestern-white-rural culture, correct?

Imagine if Crystal Meth was an inner city epidemic. Do you know how much this issue would be scrutinized and stigmatized by the media and main stream america???? Can you imagine the new improved War on Drugs if crystal meth was being abused by minorities?

But it is largely not tied to any specific demographic since it is whites that are the abusers.

Why isn't crystal meth tied to whites like crack was to blacks back in the 80's????

What a fucking joke.