US suspected of keeping secret prisoners on warships: UN official

[maddezmom]

VIENNA (AFP) - The United Nations has learned of "very, very serious" allegations that the United States is secretly detaining terrorism suspects in various locations around the world, and notably aboard prison ships, the UN's special rapporteur on terrorism said.

While qualifying the accusations as rumours, rapporteur Manfred Nowak said the situation was sufficiently serious to merit an official inquiry.

"There are very, very serious accusations that the United States is maintaining secret camps, notably on ships," the Austrian UN official told AFP in Vienna, adding that the vessels were believed to be in the Indian Ocean region.

"They are only rumours, but they appear sufficiently well-based to merit an official inquiry,," he added.

more:http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050628/pl_afp/unrightsusattacks_050628140206

[dArKeR]

1. I totally believe this story!

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2844.htm

[zann725]

61. If an Austrian's "talking," about prisoner detention, we should listen.

n/t

[indepat]

2. Will some stoop to anything to discredit this Administration's policies

and actions? Even were it true, Repugs must be allowed to do whatever they think is necessary to keep us safe, even if such actions would be a no-no for the rest of the world.

[Auntie Bush]

12. If the rumors are false ...I abhor them...but if they are correct...

I abhor that too. True or not it's a ow can our gov or military ever request humane treatment of our soldiers? We have no moral authority!

[bvar22]

42. If the US wasn't obsessively secret and evasive

If the US wasn't obsessively secret and evasive about this issue, there would be no soil for rumors to take root. The best way to combat rumors is a policy of TRANSPARENCY. The fact that organizations are forced to give credibility to rumors, and demand investigations based on RUMORS is A DIRECT RESULT of this REPUBLICAN Administrations ARROGANCE and EVASIVENESS.

The REAL STORY here is:
If the bush*/Republicans have nothing to hide, why are they hiding?
Open, accessible, transparent policies will KILL RUMORS!

[saskatoon]

46. bvar22

Bravo!

[Zhade]

63. Yeah, that kicked ass.

NT!

[wakeme2008]

3. You have it wrong

they are on cruise ships and have nice cabins and three great meals a day PLUS a midnight buffet...

:sarcasm:

[Pachamama]

7. Attn: Now on Deck 3 - Waterboarding & Cocktails!

And for those less willing to talk -

Keelhauling! Please meet at the aft of the ship with your friendly cruise staff in Black....They will make sure you are accomodated....

:sarcasm:

[saigon68]

14. YOUR CRUISE "DIRECTOR"

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/05/06/430_leash,0.jpg

"HEY BOY COME WITH ME"

"The shore excursion is about to leave."

[Pachamama]

48. US's new torture "Julie McCoy" model - Lynndie!!!

:puke:

[Lochloosa]

10. Chicken 3 times a week I'm sure

[K8-EEE]

36. Cruise Ships -- Pita Bread & TWO Kinds Of Fruit!

Honestly I can't understand why some people are so cranky about having their freedom taken from them indefinitely with no charges or due process.

They are all terr'rists! I know without a doubt because Dick Cheney said so and he's ALWAYS right about everything. After the final throes maybe they can be released to the New Free Iraq Democracy, that is just around the corner...."without a doubt" just like the WMD.

[hootinholler]

47. Dont forget

Noodles Jefferson!

-Hoot

[Up2Late]

60. Yeah, I bet they get 3 types of Fruit!

They've all never had it so good.:sarcasm:

[zann725]

62. ...with rice pilaf. Always the rice pilaf!

n/t

[Straight Shooter]

4. Did the Nazis ever do this?

Just askin'. Not making a comparison, no, huh-uh, never, no way, that would invite outrage from the Repubs.

Is there nothing the administration does that isn't conducted in the shadows of secrecy? Does not the general public realize that the camel has its foot in the tent regarding human rights?

I hate terrorism as much as anyone. What country in the world wants to help a country like ours which regularly engages in such heinous practices?

[The Night Owl]

11. Yes

Google Nazi prison ship.

[burythehatchet]

37. you know when you use the Nazi comparison you demean me you demean you

you lower the level of discourse by increasing the overall level of demeaning, if you get my meaning....just kidding Bush is a fuckin Nazi

[Eloriel]

58. Whew! You had me goin' there for a minute

Worth repeating:

just kidding Bush is a fuckin Nazi

[Zhade]

64. HAHAHAHAHA!

Nice.

[Just Me]

5. US running 'archipelago' of secret prisons: Amnesty

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200506/s1385112.htm

The US Government is operating an "archipelago" of prisons around the world, many of them secret camps into which people are being "literally disappeared," a top Amnesty International (AI) official said.

AI executive director William Schulz criticised the administration of US President George W Bush for holding alleged battlefield combatants in "indefinite incommunicado detention" without access to lawyers in an interview with Fox News.

[Ravy]

22. The good news... one prisoner is selected to water ski every day.

The bad news.... The boats are powered by oars.

[burythehatchet]

38. don't go all gulag on me now

[Pachamama]

6. Surprised? I've wondered about this for a long time....

....I've always wondered if they had ships in constant movement bringing in their "cargo" and doing as they pleased without anyone watching.

Ofcourse, this means any actions are being committed in International Waters, but one would have to "prove" it, right?

And imagine how convenient the disposal of evidence "at sea" is! :eyes:

[Spazito]

8. I knew I had heard about this before and found that...

Democracy Now did an interview with Michael Posner, executive director of Human Rights First on July 14, 2004:

"We've also had reports from other places that there are people being held on ships, there are people being held in the British Facility at Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean and there are other reports that people have been held in Africa and other parts of the world."

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/14/1410241

[Just Me]

9. I sincerely believe they "off" those who refuse to serve,...

,...as human intelligence. I could be wrong and confess speculation on this matter; however, I sincerely do believe that these world-wide torture/psyop camps are created to force folks into a form of slavery, choosing to either operate as human intelligence or die.

[Auntie Bush]

19. We NEED the flight logs of the plane(s) that transports prisoners.

[Spazito]

20. One plane and it's registration is known, according to the Boston article

Terror suspects' torture claims have Mass.
Secrecy shrouds transfer jet

DEDHAM -- Most here know Hill & Plakias as a family law firm that handles real estate and civil squabbles for the residents of this Boston suburb.

But the inconspicuous office above a Sovereign Bank, across from the red, white, and blue flags of a used car lot called Patriot Motors, is also the address of a shadowy company that owns a Gulfstream jet that secretly ferried two Al Qaeda suspects from Sweden to Egypt.

snip

In recent weeks, the practice has become nearly synonymous with the white, 20-seat, private Gulfstream jet, numbered N379P and registered in Massachusetts.

The Sunday Times of Britain reported two weeks ago that it had obtained a classified flight log of the plane that showed 300 flights from Washington, D.C., to 49 nations, including Libya, Jordan, and Uzbekistan -- three countries where the State Department has reported the use of torture. The story focused on the jet and Premier Executive Transport Services, the Massachusetts-registered company that owns it.

more

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2004/11/29/terror_suspects_torture_claims_have_mass_link/

[bigluckyfeet]

35. And If a Few Just Happened

To fall overboard accidently.

[CottonBear]

13. The Grenada 17 were torturted on a US warship: see this recent article

by Leroy Noel who is a well-respected Grenadian journalist and lawyer.

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2004/06/28/torture.htm

Grenada 17 says US torture of POWs not new
by Leroy Noel

Monday, June 28, 2004
ST GEORGE‘S, Grenada: The 17 persons convicted in Grenada for the death of former Prime Minister Maurice Bishop and several of his cabinet colleagues say reports of the humiliation and torture of prisoners of war in Iraq, Afghanistan and at Guantanamo Bay, by their US military captors are nothing new.

A statement from the Grenada 17 says official US spokespersons have sought to portray these horrible abuses as recent, isolated incidents by out-of-control individual soldiers, and not the result of official US policy but those who lived through the US invasion of Grenada know the truth.

The prisoners added that in the months following the October 1983 US invasion of Grenada, 2,800 Grenadians out of a total adult population of 60,000 were detained, most of them at a prisoner of war camp set up at Point Salines International Airport. Many of the prisoners were kept in small ‘sweat boxes’ designed so that they had to crawl on hands, knees and stomachs like dogs in order to get in and out.

The Grenada 17 indicated that guard-dogs were set halfway into the sweat boxes to terrorize them; abuse, including racist abuse, was screamed at them day and night by the soldiers; and the boxes were constantly beaten at night so as to deprive the detainees of sleep. They were kept in those boxes on the asphalt tarmac for days or weeks, in the sun, in the stifling daytime heat. Leaks in the boxes let in the heavy October night rains, so that they shivered in their wet clothes night after night, many becoming ill they claimed.

The committee for the defense of the Grenada 17 says former members of the Grenadian government and senior military officers were especially ill-treated including former Deputy Prime Minister, a civilian, after being taken prisoner was forced to lie face down in oil, in an ants nest and animal dung. His wife, a Jamaican citizen and junior minister for Women’s Affairs, the sole female POW taken onto the US warships, was made to strip naked there in front of non-medical military personnel on the pretext of being given a ‘medical examination’ – something that was not done to the male POW’s on the ship.

The committee added that black plastic bags were placed over the heads of the three most senior Grenadian military officers, to half-stifle them. Former ministers of the Grenadian government were deliberately humiliated by being publicly paraded half-naked, blindfolded and manacled; video film and photographs of them were shown around the world. All of the above is in violation of international law as regards the treatment of prisoners of war.

more...

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2004/06/28/torture.htm

edit: Also see this article by Rich Gibson: The Grenada 17:
The Last Prisoners of the Cold War are Black
http://counterpunch.org/gibson06052004.html

[LynnTheDem]

16. The shining city on the hill is a dirty slum in the gutter.

And we wonder why "they" hate us.

[CottonBear]

17. Note that the torture of the Grenada 17 was during the Reagan years.

I think that it is the either RW CIA emplyees or civilian Pentagon employees that authorize the torture. This stuff doesn't happen during Democratic administrations.

I know the family of one of the Grenada 17. Their son/father/brother/husband has been imprisoned since 1983 in US custody and then in a 17th century prison on a hill above the city of St. Georges in Grenada. He had an illegal trial. The US wants him in prison until he's dead.
:( :cry:
**************************************************************************
See this article by Rich Gibson, a American university professor:

The Grenada 17
The Last Prisoners of the Cold War are Black

The invasion of Grenada, more than 20 years ago, presaged many of the events that blowback on the US today: unilateral warfare, official deceit about the motives for war, a massive military moving against an imagined foe, stifling the press, leaders proclaiming their guidance from God, denials of human and civil rights, systematic torture and subsequent cover-ups-and a hero who refused to go along. Many of the players in the Bush administration who promise perpetual war today cut their teeth on the invasion of Grenada. It is more than worthwhile to review the events that lead to the upcoming trial.

http://counterpunch.org/gibson06052004.html

[ovidsen]

18. A credible story

Former Deputy Prime Minister Bernard Coard and all 15 of the other former Grenadian government and military officials still imprisoned after the 1983 US invasion had a chance to escape Grenada's prison after it was heavily damaged by Hurricane Ivan last September.

And they didn't.

http://www.caribupdate.com/GRENADA/GRENADA%20Sept%2012%20Coup%20inmates%20stay.htm

This act of principle adds to the credibility of their claims that the US ignores "trite" and "archaic" documents like the Geneva Convention and the Bill of Rights when it comes to the treatment of POWs.

FYI: This group is commonly known as the Grenada 17, but Coard's wife, Phyllis, was freed in 2000 to undergo cancer treatment and now lives in Jamaica.

[CottonBear]

21. I have first hand knowledge that they did not leave the prison illegally.

I have spoken with the brother and sister of one of the prisoners after the hurricane which destroyed the prison. They were allowed to go (by the prison authorities) and aid their families. Over 90% of the homes were destroyed on the island. I know the family including the parents and siblings of Kamau McBarnette.

EDIT: Mrs. Coard was released to undergo treatment for cancer. They will not let Kamau (Colville) McBarnette go to undergo treatment for his prostate condition. :(
These prisoners are currently planning to appeal their case to the privy court in London.

See this excellent site on the Grenadian Revolution:
http://www.thegrenadarevolutiononline.com/index.html

Hurricane Ivan - 7 September 2004

The after-effects of Hurricane Ivan on Richmond Hill Prison left extensive damage to the 17th C. structure. The overall report is that prisoners were permitted to go home to check on families and report back. Most all of the Grenada 17 chose to remain at the prison, according to one source. According to the US State Department in a Country Report on Human Rights Practices - 2004 for Grenada:

The main prison was damaged during Hurricane Ivan, and the authorities permitted some prisoners, including 15 of the 'Grenada 17,' to leave. The 15 prisoners returned at the end of each day, and the prison was repaired by year's end.

If you work out the numbers, the above statement implies the absence of Phyllis Coard, making the count of 16 prisoners. If, as was reported, Bernard Coard did not leave the prison, the count is reduced to the 15 in the US Department of State report.

The Grenada 17 case went to an appeals hearing in St. Lucia, the Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court (ECSC), as Grenada's court building was damaged by Hurricane Ivan.

The appeal was rejected by the three-member ECSC on 14 February 2005, producing a 43-page written judgment. This verdict overturned a Grenada High Court judge decision that had the potential for their release.

Supporters report an appeal is to be attempted to take the case to the British Privy Council.

[CottonBear]

24. See this interview of Bernard Coard by Leroy Noel after Hurricane Ivan:

http://www.thecaribbeancamera.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=54&Itemid=2

Thursday, 13 January 2005
The following interview with Bernard Coard, former deputy Prime Minister of Grenada’s People’s Revolutionary Government (PRG) was conducted by Grenadian Journalist Leroy Noel for The Camera.
Coard is one of the 17 persons convicted for the death of Prime Minister Maurice Bishop and several of his cabinet colleagues that led to the US invasion of the island in 1983.
The trial of Coard and 16 of his colleagues -- known as the Grenada 17 -- raised eyebrows across the world, and even Amnesty International slammed it as a travesty.
The Grenada 17 are now awaiting a judicial decision that could result in them being freed from prison after 21 years.



Q: When Hurricane Ivan hit Grenada, on September 7th last, the walls of the prison in three locations, including in your section, collapsed, and the vast majority of prisoners fled, why didn’t you and the other members of the Grenada Seventeen?

A: Because it would have been highly irresponsible for us to do so, especially given who we were and are.

Q: But at that moment and for several days to come, there was no functioning government in Grenada, any functioning police force, and so on. Some prisoners fled to St. Vincent, some to Trinidad, and a few went as far as Venezuela. Some of these are yet to be located. Why didn’t you?

A: Only the guilty flee. Our position, from day one, is that we will stay and fight through the courts, for our freedom.

Q: Journalists from several regional and international media organizations interviewed you inside the prison on several of the days immediately following Ivan. They reported you as saying that you did not want nor would you accept freedom granted by the government of Grenada. Did you really say this?

A: Yes.

Q: But if the government of Grenada were to offer you your freedom immediately, why, after twenty-one years wouldn’t you grasp it with both hands and leave the prison there and then?

A: We wish no favours from this or any other government of Grenada in the future. We have been illegally detained for twenty-one years. We are legally entitled to our freedom. We want it not from some government seeking to dispense ‘charity’ or ‘mercy’ – or gain political credit – but from a Court of Law based on the requirements of Grenada’s laws and constitution. It is more than time for the lawlessness with which our case has been handled over the last two decades to be brought to an end.

Q: But weren’t you convicted in Courts of Law, and these convictions upheld in the Court of Appeal?

A: The October 2003 Report of Amnesty International explains, in some detail, the kind of “trial” and “Appeal” which we received in those days. Judges in all countries of the world that I know about are paid by the month, to hear all cases which come before them. This was true even in Apartheid South Africa and Augusto Pinochet’s Chile. When, however, judges are paid – as in our case – just to hear one case, and when each is paid one million – yes, one million – Eastern Caribbean dollars just to hear that one case, you need to ask yourself why. When, on top of this, they demand an additional US $650, 000 to deliver their judgement, you need to do more than simply ask why. If you wish, I can send you the documentary proof regarding these payments, not only from official Grenada government and Parliamentary records, but also from Declassified (Secret) US government documents, released by the US government as a result of a US Federal Court Order under the Freedom Of Information Act.

Q: Why was there a need to put you people through a “Kangaroo” process – to use your term? Why wasn’t your case handled the same as anybody else’s?

A: If you have evidence to convict someone, there is no need to sack the established Court Registrar and dismiss the jury array he selected, and instead take one of the prosecution’s team of lawyers in the very said case and make her the temporary Registrar, and have her then choose a new array of jurors from which the final twelve would be chosen. There would be no need for eleven (11) of the twelve (12) jurors finally selected (and who brought in verdicts of “guilty”) to have been people not legally eligible to be jurors at all, under the jury ordinance! There would also be no need to pass nine (9) – yes, nine – laws (including three new jury laws) wholly or partially aimed at rigging the conditions under which our trial and appeal process would be undertaken. There would also be no need to torture us, and manufacture evidence in the form of perjured testimony fromfour witnesses. And, finally, as mentioned already, there would be no need to make millionaires of the judges who conducted our case! Kangaroo trials, by their very nature, therefore, are reserved for the trial of political opponents – and those whom you know you have no evidence against; who, therefore, would be found not guilty, if tried in accordance with the law.

Q: But I am still not clear as to why the United States government, as well as all the then governments of the Organization of Eastern Caribbean States (OECS) should have found it necessary to have put the seventeen of you through a process which Amnesty International referred to as ‘manifestly unfair’, and failing to meet internationally acceptable standards. Why was this necessary, do you think?

A: You have to realize that we were tried, convicted, and imprisoned during the final years of the Cold War. United States troops invaded our country; something condemned by the United Nations by a vote of 109 to 2 (or figures close to these). They had to find a way to justify this invasion. They spent US $18 million in propaganda alone, within the Caribbean region including Grenada, demonizing us; and several more millions paying for the “trial process” through which we were put. We were tried three years before the Berlin Wall fell; before the collapse of the Eastern Europe regimes allied to the Soviet Union; and five years before the final collapse of the Soviet Union itself! Indeed, the Preliminary Inquiry before a Magistrate, in our case, took place before Mikhail Gorbachev became leader of the Soviet Union! United States troops were still doing military maneuvers in Grenada while our “trial” was taking place; even flying helicopter gun ships over the court house itself while the proceedings were ongoing. This is why Amnesty International suggests, through the title of its Report on our “Trial” and “Appeal”, that we were The Last of the Cold War Prisoners.

Q: Do you feel any bitterness or hostility towards the United States as a result of their role in all that’s happened to you?

A: Why should I? I just said, this all occurred during – and as part of – the raging, final decade of the Cold War. It must be seen in that context and with that perspective.

more...

[ovidsen]

26. Excellent information.

Thank you very much!

[CottonBear]

27. You are welcome! These people had an unfair trial and need to be freed

See this excellent site on the Grenadian Revolution:
http://www.thegrenadarevolutiononline.com/index.html

I have warm feelings for my Grenadian friends and feel so much for the families of the prisoners.

[Judi Lynn]

28. Thanks for the background. Reagan certainly was busy, wasn't he?

You wouldn't think an old man who was said to sleep a lot could have generated so much destruction to human lives in this hemisphere in eight years. I would presume he had many "helpers," who are still here today, "helping" _Bush.

From your first article, which I've stashed away for my own files:

Glen St. Louis of the committee for defense of the Grenada 17 says in early and mid-November 1983 and again in February 1984, a series of tortures of the 17 prisoners took place so as to force ‘confessions of murder’ out of them in the context of the Cold War, the US government was determined to permanently crush the Grenada revolution because of its close ties to its socialist enemy, Cuba.

He believes the easiest method of achieving this was to eliminate Grenadian leaders who might oppose foreign control of their country by having them charged, convicted and executed for the tragic death of popular Prime Minister Maurice Bishop and others. The problem was that no evidence existed that Prime Minister Bishop’s killing was planned, ordered or carried out in cold blood. It soon became obvious, therefore that convictions could only be obtained through ‘confessions’ of guilt. So the Americans appointed a proxy team of Barbadian police to ‘investigate’ the deaths of the Grenadian Prime Minister and others.

Mr. St. Louis claimed the Barbadian police then obtained several false ‘confessions’ through the use of torture and from 1983-86 the most vicious propaganda campaign the Caribbean has ever experienced was carried out by the US psychological operations battalion, branding Grenada’s surviving leaders as ‘criminals and murderers’. A since published book by a leading American investigative journalist, Bob Woodward, Veil: The Secret Wars of the USA, has revealed that following the United Nations’ condemnation of the invasion of Grenada, then US President Ronald Reagan authorised several millions of US dollars to the CIA ‘for propaganda to justify the US invasion’.
(snip/...)

This is unbearable. The world needs another Republican right-wing emperor in the White House like it needs the Bubonic Plague.

[CottonBear]

49. Thanks for responding. Please write PM Keith Mitchell of Grenada

and urge him to have the case reconsidered by the Eastern Caribbean Court.
Coard has already said that he wants the courts not the government to release them. I think that Mitchell is a US shill and a tool.

My friend's brother (Colville 'Kamau' McBarnette) has been in prison for over 20 years. :cry:
He was in the education ministry. The McBarnettes are good people. His dad was the Deputy Governor General of Grenada and one of his brothers is a prominent physician there. My friend is another brother. I've met all of them except Kamau. :cry:

(You can google The Grenada Revolution online if you can't find my thread or see my previous posts in this for the link for more info on Grenada and the Revo.) See alsp Carribean Net News, Grenada Today, CANA News, The Grenadian Voice and Rich Gibson's scholarly works for good information on their plight.

Please consider writing to the PM and supporting the Amnesty Int'l campaign for the release of the reamaining 16 prisoners of the original 17 (Coard's wife Phyllis was released to undergo cancer treatment.)

PEACE to you Judi Lynn and thank you for caring. I've posted about the imprisoment and torture of the 17 before but no one here ever responds. :(

[LiberallyInclined]

43. I HATE this Fucking Country more and more every day-

collectively, we are a pustule on the sphincter of humanity.

[strizi64]

15. Gulags in the USSAR n/t

[donkeyotay]

23. Whether this particular allegation is true, what's certain is that

we have no credibility left, no reputation to confer the benefit of a doubt.

Another one of George's brilliant stategeries. I bet he thought that 9/11 (and being chosen by God) gave him the "right" to order torture... without being able to think through the consequences, the price to this nation for destroying its standing in the world.

Evil moron.

[mom cat]

25. A sure and rate this story.

[maddezmom]

29. updated link:

Last Thursday Nowak and three other UN human rights experts said they were opening an inquiry into the US detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where Washington has been holding more than 500 people without trial, and into other such locations.

The United States has neither refused nor granted requests by Nowak's group to visit Guantanamo.

"We have accepted, upon the request of the State Department and Pentagon, to limit our investigation for now to Guantanamo, but even in accepting this we have not had a positive response" to the request for a visit, Nowak said.

He said that if the "investigation into Guantanamo leads us to other things, we will follow them. We will bring up all these matters to the US government and expect Washington to say officially where these camps are."

The use of prison ships would allow investigators to interrogate people secretly and in international waters out of the reach of US law, British security expert Francis Tusa said.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050628/wl_afp/unrightsusattacks_050628194245

[Monkie]

30. BBC: US faces prison ship allegations (more hidden prisoners says UN)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4632087.stm

"The United Nations says it has learned of serious allegations that the US is secretly detaining terrorism suspects, notably on American military ships.

The special rapporteur on torture Manfred Nowak said the accusations were rumours at this stage, but urged the US to co-operate in an investigation"

[Gothmog]

31. Gitmo was not enough

The Supreme court gutted the reason for Gitmo. Under an old decision, it was thought that Guantanamo was a legal black hole where the US courts did not have jurisdiction. These ships may be another attempt to achieve this result.

[Jack Rabbit]

32. That won't work any better

If Bush can send troops there, the federal courts have oversight.

[walkon]

33. Remember

Freedom from torture is "an inalienable human right." G.W. "Bozo" Bush
June 26, 2005.

Meantime, "Operating behind a wall of secrecy, the U.S. Department of Justice thrust scores of Muslim men living in the United States into a Kafkaesque world of indefinite detention without charge and baseless accusations of terrorist links, Human Rights Watch and the American Civil Liberties Union said" in a report released today. June 27, 2005

[cyberpj]

41. Damn! They just didn't get Bolton in there soon enough, did they? nt.

[Arkansas Granny]

34. I've been wondering how long it will be

until the UN imposes sanctions against the United States for human rights violations.

[katinmn]

39. How bizzarre!

These people are total freaks. Would not surprise me in the least.

[cyberpj]

40. With all the vile things they do - AND THEY STILL CAN'T GAIN GROUND!

I'd say unbelievable but this story is totally believable.

[Shallah Kali]

44. RawStory has some info on this - haliburton connection possible

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Contract_that_spawned_Guantanamo_prisons_awarded_to_Halliburton_during_Cheneys_tenur_0621.html

[Judi Lynn]

45. Nixon's puppet dictator, Augusto Pinochet kept three prison/torture ships

......Valparaíso

For purposes of imprisonment, interrogation, and/or torture in this province, the navy used the ships "Lebu," "Maipo," and the training ship "Esmeralda," (which were all anchored in the port of Valparaíso), the El Belloto naval air base, and the Naval War Academy - in particular one of its facilities, the Silva Palma garrison.

The two ships "Lebu" and "Maipo," which belonged to the Sudamericana de Vapores Company, were used as the navy's detention sites. The company told this Commission that the "Maipo" was transferred into the hands of the Chilean Navy at 10:00 a.m. September 11, 1973, when navy personnel took it over, and then headed toward Pisagua at 11:00 p.m. September 15. It was then replaced by the "Lebu," which had been requisitioned as a prison ship that same date. In November the International Red Cross Committee noted that the "Lebu" held 324 political prisoners.

Both the "Maipo" and the "Lebu" were used as prison sites. Some prisoners in these ships were in cabins but most were kept in the holds in very crowded and unhygienic conditions with minimal services. After its visit on October 1, 1973, the International Red Cross confirmed that such was the case on the "Lebu." It also noted that the prisoners were completely cut off from the outside since their families were unaware that they were there, that the food was barely satisfactory in quality and quantity, and that the conditions in which they were being held prisoners were generally poor. On that ship prisoners were tortured and mistreated.

In its inquiries the Commission was able to determine that a specialized navy unit was installed on the "Esmeralda" in order to interrogate prisoners and those brought from other navy prison sites. As a general rule, these interrogations included torture and mistreatment. Mistreatment and torture were also part of interrogation that took place at the El Belloto naval air base, and at the War Academy and installations connected to it, particularly the Silva Palma garrison.
(snip/...)

http://www.usip.org/library/tc/doc/reports/chile/chile_1993_pt3_ch1_a2_f.html

Here is one of them, La Esmeralda.....

Here is a British priest killed on board the Esmeralda,Michael Woodward....

Chile has sent the Esmeralda on world tours, stopping into large city ports, and the ship has been protested everywhere. When it appeared in the 1970's at one of the big ports here, like Boston, or Baltimore, demonstrators noticed there were government photographers there taking photos of them as they protested the ship's presence.

So our right-wing politicians have known about torture ships for a long time. This is so discouraging learning _Bush and his demons have added this true unpardonable sin to their war on humanity repertoire.

[Pepperbelly]

50. I believe this to be bogus.

The Navy has no prison ships.

A brig maybe, but not even big brigs.

[despairing optimist]

51. Is this a known unknown or is it an unknown known?

To find out the answer, I have to go with the defense secretary I've got, not the one I want.

In that case, I'll just help out with the impeachment articles.

I loved the part of W's speech in which he said the terrorists view the US as corrupt and decadent. Where did they ever get that idea? Haven't they been listening to our leader?

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

53. Sort of like invading a country on rumors of WMDs?

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

55. are you saying these 2 things?

3 of the most powerful countries on earth have their respective intelligence agencies agree Iraq had WMDs so you believe the war is ok?

Are you saying that questioning the government and asking for answers is giving comfort to the enemy?

I just would like to make sure before resonding further. Thank you.

[LynnTheDem]

56. Of course you "can't believe it". I knew you wouldn't, after reading all

your other posts.

"What's wrong with YOU PEOPLE"?

Oops.

[Up2Late]

US faces prison ship allegations (BBC News)

Tuesday, 28 June, 2005, 19:46 GMT 20:46 UK

US faces prison ship allegations

The United Nations says it has learned of serious allegations that the US is secretly detaining terrorism suspects, notably on American military ships.

The special rapporteur on torture Manfred Nowak said the accusations were rumours at this stage, but urged the US to co-operate in an investigation. He said the UN wants lists of the places of detention and those held.

The comments come five days after the UN accused the US of stalling on their requests to visit Guantanamo Bay. Investigators have been asking to visit the jail in Cuba to carry out checks into allegations of human rights abuse.

The UN said for over a year there had been no response to its requests, and it would begin an inquiry into alleged abuses with or without US co-operation. Washington had yet to grant their request, Mr Nowak said.

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4632087.stm>
(more at link above)

[TahitiNut]

57. The hits just keep on coming.

I don't put anything beneath this corrupt cabal of fascists!

[Tinoire]

59. How low can my country sink?

Wow. Just wow...

And I'm jaded.