Changes Ahead for NJ Voters (Voter Verified Paper Trail, more)

[MH1]

This is a very short write-up from WNYC so I will summarize it to avoid copyright issues. The brief story, Changes Ahead for NJ Voters, notes that Acting Governor Richard Codey signed several bills today affecting the conduct of elections in N.J.:

* The requirement that every vote cast have a verifiable paper trail will go into effect by 2008.
* In 2008 New Jersey's presidential primary will be moved to February (from June).
* Voter registration will be allowed up until three weeks before an election.
* Voters requesting an absentee ballot will no longer have to give an "acceptable" reason.

This was the only news story I could find; I heard it originally on WHYY (NPR radio station in Philly) but cannot find any article on their site.

I believe that the bill Codey signed relating to Voter Verified Paper Trail was N.J. Senate bill S.29.

[BattyDem]

1. A paper trail AND a primary that actually means something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On edit: AND a "no questions asked" absentee ballot! :woohoo:

Why wasn't this on the local news? :shrug:

[MH1]

3. Interestingly, this poster in NJ Forum thinks this is a weak

bill...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=167x2087

[BattyDem]

4. Oh no ... don't tell me that ...

let me go see what he's saying about it.

[bklyncowgirl]

20. As a NJ voter I agree. This is a good thing.

Ah! and to actually be able to cast a meaningful vote in a Presidential Primary--something I haven't been able to do since I moved from Brooklyn.

[Sannum]

2. I am so glad!!!

Wherever he is, Andy is smiling.

It's going to happen Andy!!! The ball is rolling!

[msongs]

5. paper trail only tells you what you entered NOT what the machine ->

reported to the central tabulating location. so you vote for kerry, your printout says you voted for kerry, and the machine reports your VOTE FOR BUSH to the central tabulating location and you will never know if you were cheated or not.

verifiable paper trail printed to you means nothing, really.

only hand counted ballots and totals announced at the precinct level mean anything close to secure.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[BattyDem]

7. According to the bill ...

they would be used in a manual audit, so if the exit polls are off and/or someone wants to challenge the election, the paper would be used for a recount ... at least, that's how I understand it. Isn't that what we wanted? I know paper ballots would be so much better, but this sounds like a good start to me.


"This bill would require that each voting machine in use in the State produce an individual permanent paper record for each vote cast."

"The record would be made available for inspection and verification by the voter at the time the vote is cast, and preserved for later use in any manual audit. Such a voter-verified paper record would give voters increased confidence that their votes were counted accurately."

"Counties would be required to comply with the provisions of this bill by January 1, 2008, unless a waiver is granted by the Attorney General for good cause."

"The bill is modeled on provisions in a bill sponsored by Congressman Rush Holt (H.R.2239), introduced in May 2003."

[bpilgrim]

9. a "manual audit" is KEY

i don't think computers are goin away - unless bush blows EVERYTHING the fuck up - and we simply need a way to double check them, to be sure and keep'm honest (as much as possible, considering folks were cheating at the polls long before computers showed up)

andy would be glad, i'm sure :cry:

peace

[Zorra]

15. What is needed is a non-mechanized voting system using paper and pen.

Cast ballots must never leave public view; they must never be allowed to be taken into some shady back room.

Ballots must be counted in full public view by publicly approved partisan and non partisan election workers.

Only then can we be reasonably confident that our election system is accurate and verifiable.

Make it so republicans have no way to cheat.

Because if republicans can cheat, they will cheat.

Canada has a fantastic voting system like the one described above, and Canadians seem to be very happy with it.

[iverglas]

18. details about the Cdn system

Yup, we use paper and pen to vote. But in the new and improved system being gradually adopted, the paper is then scanned by a fax-like machine, which tallies the votes. If there is a problem with the ballot -- if no vote registers, or if the elector has inadvertently marked it twice, the machine rejects it in the elector's presence and s/he can redo it.

The paper ballots are retained. I haven't scrutineered in one of these elections -- the system was used in my last municipal election, which I didn't work in, but not in the 2004 federal election. (In the federal election, we were still counting paper ballots, and I was in a polling station observing it for my party, with the opportunity to object to any ballot that appeared improper.) So I don't know whether there is still a vote-counting process on the paper ballots, in the polling station when the doors close, but I doubt it. I expect that if any candidate perceived a problem with the electronic count, the recount would be done on the paper ballots.

And yup, we really do like the system just fine, and seldom have any problems with it!

[Zorra]

19. Thanks!

:hi:

[lapfog_1]

10. YES!

at the very least... one machine to produce the paper ballot... and
another, from a different vendor, to READ THE PRINTED SELECTIONS,
to tabulate. No bar codes. No memory sticks.

But hand count per precinct is best.

[brentspeak]

6. What was the problem with old-fashioned lever voting booths?

To my eyes: Nothing.

So how did Diebold manage to squeeze themselves into our nation's voting system with their ATM machines?

[MH1]

8. Old-fashioned lever machines

Some of the arguments against them:

- hard to get parts, and the parts are expensive
- technicians are scarce, expensive, and absolutely critical to have on election day.
- weigh a frickin ton so precincts are constrained in where they can set up polling places, and it discourages people & orgs from wanting to host polling places
- it's very difficult to replace a broken machine on election day. Ya gotta fix it, and if the second one breaks the precinct is down and people don't get to vote.

Those are just some points that were told to me when I made the same statement you did, to an old hand in the Philly voting process.

My county still has the old machines, btw. But I've done election monitoring in Phily where they have new machines (from Danaher, I believe they are called "Shouptronics" because the layout mimics the old lever machines).

For what it's worth ;-)

[BattyDem]

11. "Codey signs four election reform measures"

Asbury Park Press
07/8/05

New Jersey voters can have an earlier say in the presidential primary, vote on machines that emit paper receipts, cast absentee ballots for any reason and register closer to an election under laws signed Thursday by acting Gov. Codey.

The laws were the first to be signed out of a group of 13 bills that will reform the way New Jerseyans cast their ballots that passed through the Legislature in the final voting sessions before the summer recess.

"These laws will promote access, accuracy and accountability in elections," Roberts said. "They will strengthen the voting process and lend further credibility to future elections."

Read the entire article here

[MH1]

12. Excellent article! Thanks!

But why, oh why, is there no mention of this on the NJ Democratic State Committee site, or Gov Codey's website? Don't they think it's important? (or do they think that citizens don't think it's important?)

Or is it there somewhere and I missed it?

[goclark]

13. Why not RIGHT NOW!!!!

Why are we waiting until 08?
By 08 Jenna will be installled as "President For Life" and Noelle will be Drug Czar.

[MH1]

14. Seriously?

It takes time to implement this stuff... on NPR they said there was no way it would happen by '08 EXCEPT by passing this bill - because all the vendors are prioritizing states with mandatory requirements. So by signing this bill, at least NJ will move up in the queue with the vendors.

I guess from your last sentence you aren't really serious though. Although the thought does make me want to :puke:

[goclark]

16. They could make it happen before that -in America they can

do anything.

They made fools believe that there were WMD in Iraq and that we needed to go over there and kill innocent people.


They made people believe that they did not steal the election in Florida and in Ohio.

They made people believe that a code blue/orange/red would keep us safe.


They CAN make a paper trail system by next week if they wanted to-they don't want to do it.

I am absolutely serious, we either get this straight NOW or we will continue to be a banana republic.

Jenna will be installed as the head of the banana republic of America in '08.

[MH1]

17. Okay, I disagree, but we're cool.

I don't think they could implement anything as quickly as you suggest that would work. Just my opinion as an IT person.

Anyway, I'm glad at least something's being done by 2008. That's better than nothing.

And for the record - AFAIC, we are ALREADY a banana republic. This is a matter of un-bananaing. ;-)