Man cuts feet off 'promiscuous' wife

[emad]

Tracy McVeigh
Sunday July 10, 2005
The Observer

A Pakistani man and some of his relatives chopped off his wife's feet after accusing her of being promiscuous, police said yesterday.

The woman survived the gruesome attack, the latest in a wave of assaults that have raised international concern about the plight of women in rural Pakistan.

'It is a shameful act of cruelty against a woman,' said Talat Ali, a senior police official in Punjab.'

The 32-year-old woman told police her feet were chopped off on 24 June by her husband, her father-in-law, a brother-in-law and two others after they accused her of being 'of bad character', a euphemism for promiscuous.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1525238,00.html

[Straight Shooter]

1. War on terror? How about domestic terror.

What about that, bush and allies? Want to go after some terrorists that live in the security of the four walls of their own home, and terrify their wives and children?

[loudsue]

2. This is sickening. Those who perpetuated this crime should be shot,

or better yet, suffer the same fate.

What can POSSIBLY go through a person's mind that they would do something so horrible? They are SICK SICK SICK bastards.

:kick:

[FlemingsGhost]

8. What went through their minds?

Well, probably that the person should be shot, (but they went with cutting off the feet.)

You are closer to understanding these "sick bastards" than you think.

[Zenlitened]

12. Yes, because hacking the feet off this woman... and punishing those

... who did the hacking -- it's the exact same thing! :crazy:

Please, spare us the sanctimonious hand-wringing, huh? Spare us the muddled mind-games of the self-righteous. It's really quite repulsive.

[FlemingsGhost]

13. Don't you have a bullet to put into someone?

Uh huh ... "Repulsive."

[Zenlitened]

14. Don't you have someone who's feet need hacking off?

:shrug:

[geek tragedy]

19. Do you equate adultery with cutting of another human beings feet?

Let the punishment fit the crime--I'm sure you're familiar with the concept.

[Zhade]

61. Wait, where did you get that from?

I read it as the poster saying Zenlightened was similar to the creep who hacked off the woman's feet (I disagree with completely with the comparison).

But I do agree with the "punishment fitting the crime" thing.

[geek tragedy]

64. The question, stated inelegantly by me, was intended

to enquire as to whether shooting people who go around hacking women's feet off is equally disproportionate as hacking women's feet off for straying from sexual mores.

Methinks that the level of barbarism involved in hacking a woman's feet off because she dared use her vagina according to her own will invite far exceeds that of those who would visit deadly force against such barbarians.

[Zhade]

78. We completely agree.

Huh, weird - us agreeing on something! :D

[geek tragedy]

92. Hey, this is DU. We're supposed to get in fights over trivial

matters when we agree on 90% of the issues.

[northzax]

69. actually, in many ways, yes

welcome to the wonderful world of HIV, where a cheating spouse can be a death sentence.

of course, no one has the right to take out justice on another human being in a physical manner, that should be left to the courts to decide. And, also of course, in a situation such as this, simple abandonment is acceptable for the adulterer, should the spouse not want him/her back. (yes, I know this is not actually possible in many part of the world, especially among the crazy-nuts people of mountainous Pakistan)

[geebensis]

44. Agreed

Too bad the bloodthirsty don't quite get it.

Trying to enlighten someone who says they want to shoot or cut the feet off of vicious maniacs does not, I repeat, does NOT mean one sides with the vicious maniacs.

Such a simple concept. So easily missed...

[WhiteTara]

56. IMHO the idea was to keep

her in the kitchen and pregnant with ONLY her husband's sperm.
What a bunch of sick fucks. And these are our Friends! God we pick terrible friends.
:mad:

[okieinpain]

71. yeah, but the christian right is way worse then these guys.

[Zenlitened]

72. Give them time. The christofascists in the US are still learning.

:scared:

[okieinpain]

74. sadly, some days I wonder how close to the truth that is.

[Raiden]

81. I agree

They should have their feet cut off. This is completely reprehensible!

[Zenlitened]

3. And they do this shit in the name of "righteousness."

Line 'em up. I would happily put a bullet to each of them. :grr:

[FlemingsGhost]

9. How "Zenlightened" of you ...

As if ...

[Zenlitened]

11. Tsk tsk. Did I offend your delicate sensibilities?

Well... I can live with that. :rofl:

[trebizond]

24. Your bigotry against sadistic woman-hating mutilators is a disgrace!

[Zenlitened]

25. I know, I know. I need to dig up the lyrics to "Kumbaya"...

... so I can sit around the campfire for a little sing-along with the sadistic woman-hating mutilators. I mean, golly gee whiz, they're people too!

Gag.

[Endangered Specie]

52. Here they are...

After a couple verses, then they get shot.. fair compromise don't you think? :sarcasm:

Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's singing Lord, kumbaya
Someone's singing Lord, kumbaya
Someone's singing Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbayah

Someone's laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's crying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's crying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's crying, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's praying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's praying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's praying, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's sleeping, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's sleeping, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's sleeping, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

[really annoyed]

42. Thank You

I don't have to get to know the "culture" of these people to understand their motives.

I think the feet hacking gives it away.

[azoth]

4. You know, I'm all for cultural relativism...

but things like this just make me go WTF - and this is OKAY with everyone there?

[PA Mamma]

5. No it's not Okay...

Common, just as it is here in the US, but not okay.

Violence against women is common in rural Pakistan where tribal and feudal customs hold sway.

The latest incident occurred in central Punjab province where the 2002 gang-rape of a woman, Mukhtaran Mai, on the orders of a village council, triggered an international outcry.

Pakistan president Pervez Musharraf, who is trying to project his country as a moderate Muslim nation, has condemned violence against women.

Violence is a global Problem.

[manic expression]

28. I'm wondering...

If this is supposedly a Punjabi problem, then why don't I ever hear about Indian Punjabis doing this?

[Vladimir]

66. For example

http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/921

http://www.indiatogether.org/2005/jul/ksh-reality.htm

no-one has a monopoly on this shit IMO.

[manic expression]

68. Yes, rape is a huge problem

but that is a problem that is found around the world. Not exactly the same as cutting a woman's feet off IMO. However, I am aware of some terrible treatment they sometimes get in India, as well as virtually every other place in the world.

I was wondering that if this was supposedly a regional practice, then why is it not done in the Indian Punjab?

[Zenlitened]

73. Salman Rushdie on India, Pakistan "Code of Dishonor"

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/10/opinion/10rushdie.html?hp

[Vladimir]

80. Well I think the specific practice

is... its a of sick, grotesque violence against women. Please, don't for a moment think i am trying to diminish how sick this is. My point (and that of the second article) was that similar things do happen in the Indian punjab, even if they aren't the exact same thing.

[otohara]

6. These Men Go Free?

no mention of arrest or pending arrest, just condemnation from president dictator?

[acmavm]

7. There are some assholes involved here that are definitely 'of bad

character' and it ain't the victim.

Cut the penises off those stupid bastards. Apparently it's the organ that they think with, that motivates them.

[emad]

10. War against women is the Fundies' No 1 pleasure - irrespective of their

particular religious, cultural or ethnic origin/affiliation.

[VegasWolf]

16. Not war, emad, I think they see it as a property-rights issue! nt

[emad]

67. If you are a woman, believe me it's WAR!

No other way of describing...

[OKthatsIT]

89. In America....we should be grateful?

this is sick...but we will see some pretty sick stuff, right here at home, if we lose Roe V Wade.

[Syncronaut Seven]

15. SHOCKING! LOOK OVER THERE!!!!!

Yes, It's heineous and all but what will expending your emotional energy on a cynically employed distraction accomplish?

Focus people.

[slackmaster]

76. Yeah, just like that hurricane over the weekend

Timing is everything.

:argh:

[Yavin4]

17. Rick Santorum Would Be Proud

This is Santorum's world.

[VegasWolf]

18. His god/religion gave him permission. nt

[SKKY]

58. And it's cute to me that people still try and convince others that...

...theirs is a peaceful religion/god. Shit.

[lastliberalintexas]

82. Just as peaceful towards women as any other patriarchal religion

Some religions are just more subtle in their attacks on women. :shrug:

[agincourt]

20. We seem to hear of more incidents over there all the time,

is it getting worse, of just getting in the news more?

[rayofreason]

59. a bit of both...

...I suspect.

On one hand, with technology the world shrinks, so we hear more about these kinds of atrocities.

On the other hand, as the world shrinks, many feel threatened and view the intrusion of modernity as a direct assault on traditional, religious culture. So they lash out. As the world gets smaller and young people and women get "ideas", you can expect more of this.

[dandrhesse]

21. While we condemn this, and I do as well, it speaks volumes to how little

we understand about the cultural differences between middle eastern countries, also the difference between rural "old-fashioned" philosophies and those in the cosmopolitan areas. While I think it is horrible, if you know much about the cultures in the area this is not shocking, horrible but not shocking. It all relates back to extremism. Look anywhere around the world and when you find extremism you will find henious acts carried out in the name of the extremist doctrine which is being followed. Extremism breeds conformity out of fear and black and white thinking. Life is not black and white, it is all shades of gray.

[FlemingsGhost]

22. Agreed.

Glad to see someone eschew the "shoot now, ask questions later" philosophy.

[dandrhesse]

26. It is exactly that philosophy that has us in the mess we are in today in

Iraq. It ignores the humanity of all the persons involved. I have many friends that are Vets for Peace members and I am wholly convinced that violence solves nothing, it creates hate and hate breeds more violence.

[slackmaster]

91. Gotta disagree with you on the humanity thing

Anyone who cuts off peoples' limbs, or who thinks it's OK to do that, isn't worthy of being called human.

[lastliberalintexas]

83. Oh bull fucking shit

This has nothing to do with understanding a society or not. This story is simply yet another anecdote from a patriarchal, misogynistic society which treats women as chattel, as mere possessions to be used by men. It happens all over the world, even in so-called civilized cosmopolitan areas, in both more gruesome or more subtle ways.

Cultural sensitivity my ass. :eyes:

[slackmaster]

90. There's nothing worth understanding

Any culture that condones mutilating people is bad.

[Zenlitened]

23. Salman Rushdie's op-ed piece in the NYT seems especially timely:

India and Pakistan's Code of Dishonor

By SALMAN RUSHDIE
Published: July 10, 2005

In honor-and-shame cultures like those of India and Pakistan, male honor resides in the sexual probity of women, and the "shaming" of women dishonors all men. So it is that five men of Pakistan's powerful Mastoi tribe were disgracefully acquitted of raping a villager named Mukhtar Mai three years ago. Theirs was an "honor rape," intended to punish a relative of Ms. Mukhtar for having been seen with a Matsoi woman. The acquittals have now been suspended by the Pakistan Supreme Court, and there is finally a chance that this courageous woman may gain some measure of redress for her violation.

Pakistan, however, has little to be proud of. The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan says that there were 320 reported rapes in the first nine months of last year, and 350 reported gang rapes in the same period. The number of unreported rapes is believed to be much larger. The victim pressed charges in only one-third of the reported cases, and a mere 39 arrests were made. The use of rape in tribal disputes has become, one might say, normal. And the belief that a raped woman's best recourse is to kill herself remains widespread and deeply ingrained.

(snip)

Why does a mere seminary have the power to issue such judgments? The answer lies in the strange anomaly that is the Muslim personal law system - a parallel legal system for Indian Muslims, which leaves women like Imrana at the mercy of the mullahs. Such is the historical confusion on this vexed subject that anyone who suggests that a democratic country should have a single, unified legal system is accused of being anti-Muslim and in favor of the hardline Hindu nationalists.

(snip)

... The "culture" of rape that exists in India and Pakistan arises from profound social anomalies, its origins lying in the unchanging harshness of a moral code based on the concepts of honor and shame. Thanks to that code's ruthlessness, raped women will go on hanging themselves in the woods and walking into rivers to drown themselves. It will take generations to change that. Meanwhile, the law must do what it can.

(snip)

Full story:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/10/opinion/10rushdie.html?hp

[Auntie Bush]

27. How can anyone think these BARBARIANS are civil enough to

handle a democracy? First they have to become civilized human beings
with some sense of fairness and right from wrong.

[wallwriter]

29. Oh. I thought it was Rick Santorum.

[Zenlitened]

30. Give him time, give him time.

This is just the sort of sick "society" the santorums of the world want to create, where women are property and nothing more.

:scared:

[Bo]

31. Oh yea buddy

[Voltaire99]

32. Americans should recognize this: it's Shock & Awe-style retribution.

This kind of hideous overkill puts the perpetrators on the same level as American politicians, who believed they had a right to mutilate Iraq.

[Vuem]

41. Smart Americans recognize specious comparisons

This kind of horseshit has been going on for eons before the term 'American politician' even existed.

[Voltaire99]

63. Pointless complaint.

This kind of horseshit has been going on for eons before the term 'American politician' even existed.

Irrelevant. They're both acts of overkill.

Your own leaders are engaged in retributive punishment, Vuem, on a much costlier human scale. That might possibly interest you, as a "smart" American.

[WinkyDink]

33. depravity

This is what gives the War on Iraq and Islam a good name.

[tabasco]

34. Well, WinkyDink, since you are so outraged .....

why not head on down to the recruiting tation and sign up to fight this war on "Terror and Islam." I'm sure you will have a glorious career and will be marching in the victory parade.

Wait, let me guess - - you are already a disabled veteran or you would be fighting already?

[WinkyDink]

47. I should sign up?

Well, somehow I don't think a 55-year-old female is exactly what our Armed Forces want.
But if you think a taunt will get an apology from me, uh, no. I have no time for Islamic terrorists or their ignorant tribal followers.

And next time, don't skip the class on "understanding tone".

[renaissanceguy]

75. Surely, you are also against

Christian fundamentalists who bomb abortion clinics and advocate crucifying gay people.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/472476

[WinkyDink]

84. Don't call me Shirley

Yes, I am, so your point would be?

[renaissanceguy]

93. Well then, good.

I hope you will speak out against the fundie terrorists in our own country.



http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/472476

[AlwaysQuestion]

46. Alert! Alert! Dysfunctional brain on the loose!

You poor darlin' - sick is as sick thinks. A dysfunctional brain--is there a doctor in the house? Whaddya think, doc, is his malfunctioning brain a result of injury, upbringing, lack of schooling, innate evil? Please, doc, we need to know, Is he salvagable?

[tabasco]

70. You apparently skipped a lot more classes than me.

First of all, it's not a war on Iraq and Islam. You want the US to delare war on a religion??

Second, it's not the US armed forces mission to perform law enforcement around the entire globe. Why aren't tou ranting about the CHRISTIAN fundie ladies who like to drown their kids and beat their kids' heads in with rocks? Should the US declare war on Christianity because of these wackos? According to you - YES !

Nice of you to be safe and comfy with a nice excuse for not having to be in the service. It is not the mission of our troops to conquer the globe for idiotic reasons or idiotic people.

[WinkyDink]

86. Okay, here's the tone of my previous post, as a lesson

A pox on BOTH houses:

Bush, for waging this egregious illegal war (which his latest speech, in mentioning Jakarta, the Phillippines, etc., extended "WMD" to world-wide Islamist terrorism, which SOME might see as a war on Islam. Maybe Muslims see it this way?)

the Pakistani Muslims in this story (you know, the thread's TOPIC), who, by committing such a vile crime, make Bushco's war SEEM like it has merit, which it does not.
THAT was the point.

FYI: I detest and abominate "Christian" Fundamentalists/Rapture nuts/Greedheads and all things Republican. When you start that thread, let me know.

[Mari333]

35. I know what I would cut off if some man tried to do that to me

and it wouldnt be his feet

[barb162]

37. and then shove it down their fucking throats and let them choak on it.

[Mari333]

38. ah you think like me...= )

[barb162]

40. then there are at least two thinking the right way

[Lilith Velkor]

54. Three...and many more

[barb162]

55. and that's a great poster you have there

IF ONLY THE WOMEN IN PAKISTAN COULD SEE THIS POSTER

[Lilith Velkor]

57. Or read this comic.

http://www.e-sheep.com/spiders/

[Zhade]

62. I don't think many men could blame you.

I couldn't.

[Lars39]

36. After reading the article,

I can only say that the women in that area need to do some pre-emptive house cleaning.

[Mari333]

39. Start arming the women in Afghanistan and Pakistan

a few rounds off an M16 might get those guys in line..its the great equalizer....

[Lars39]

49. I was thinking something a little more subtle and harder to detect.

I think I'm a pacifist until I read about something like this. :(

[Gyre]

43. Pakistan, "our ally in the war on terra" is shit.

Prima facie evidence of the truth of that fact reside in the treatment of women there.

Gyre

[raysr]

45. Sure that wasn't in

KANSAS!!!!!!!!???

[Solly Mack]

48. America's partner in spreading democracy

[Endangered Specie]

50. The four of them should all be lined up and shot.

(and please, skip the reminder about how Im just as bad as the perpetrators)

[Piperay]

51. "Accused" and that doesn't even

mean she did anything! Even if she did wouldn't deseve that but she was probably TOTALLY innocent! I wish someone would cut their feet off too!

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[deadparrot]

60. Religious fundamentalism strikes again.

I'm all for multicultural understanding and education. We need more of it, especially in dealing with the Middle East. But if this was a Christian fundamentalist cutting off his wife's feet, there would be complete disgust and no excuses. There shouldn't be.

There's a fine line between cultural tradition and infringement of our basic human rights. I'm against all forms of religious extremism (ie, when people use their religious beliefs as a reason for violence).

This man needs to be punished for his crime. If he will remains to be seen. Somehow I doubt it.

[Vladimir]

65. Words fail me

this is fucking sick

[KamaAina]

77. How often does this happen??

I certainly hope this doesn't happen whenever a woman is suspected of being 'promiscuous'.

There'd be enough Pakistani women with disabilities, acquired at the hands of these vengeful yahoos, to start a Punjab Center for Independent Living and a Punjab chapter of ADAPT. And as much as I appreciate the disability rights movement, that's not a good thing.

[Ironcandle]

79. What a beautiful

culture. I'm sure the West is just misunderstanding the intentions of the husband. (that is sarcasm, by the way)

[sophist]

85. Ah!

Who needs feet anyway - Sarcasm.

[genieroze]

87. I though these right wing fundies like to keep their women barefoot

and pregnant, not footless and cripple.

[sophist]

88. I would Hardly

Call these people right winged. Disturbed people who need to have their feet cut off and thrown in an ant bed.

But that would be judgmental - More sarcasm