UPI: Iraqi civilian casualties (now at 128,000)

[wookie294]

BAGHDAD -- An Iraqi humanitarian organization is reporting that 128,000 Iraqis have been killed since the U.S. invasion began in March 2003.

Mafkarat al-Islam reported that chairman of the 'Iraqiyun humanitarian organization in Baghdad, Dr. Hatim al-'Alwani, said that the toll includes everyone who has been killed since that time, adding that 55 percent of those killed have been women and children aged 12 and under.

'Iraqiyun obtained data from relatives and families of the deceased, as well as from Iraqi hospitals in all the country's provinces. The 128,000 figure only includes those whose relatives have been informed of their deaths and does not include those were abducted, assassinated or simply disappeared.

The number includes those who died during the U.S. assaults on al-Fallujah and al-Qa'im. 'Iraqiyun's figures conflict with the Iraqi Body Count public database compiled by Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies. According to the Graduate Institute of International Studies' database, 39,000 Iraqis have been killed as a direct result of combat or armed violence since March 2003. No official estimates of Iraqi casualties from the war have been issued by the Pentagon, which insists that it does not do "body counts." The Washington Post on July 12 reported that U.S. military deaths in Iraq now total 1,755.

http://washingtontimes.com/upi/20050712-090927-2280r.htm

[TahitiNut]

1. "abducted, assassinated or simply disappeared"

Boy! I'll bet they're happier than clams that Saddam's not in charge, huh? :sarcasm: :eyes:

[Ravenseye]

19. No they're scared for their lives

They say goodbye to their families when they go to the store, in case they never see them again. They speak of making it to a friends house "Without Incident" which means "without being killed".

Oh but they're happy.

Especially without those pesky 1.3 million people, mostly elderly and children, killed by the U.S. Sanctions along with the 128,000 killed since the invasion. Saddam was a lightweight in comparison.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. So I guess that'll be 129,755 counts on the indictment.

And counting...

[Ravenseye]

21. Don't Forget the Sanctions

We're all guilty. Not just Bush, though those 130k deaths are all on his shoulders now.

Never forget the 1.3 million we killed indirectly via the U.S. Sanctions.

[Zorra]

3. 55 percent of those killed have been women and children aged 12 and under.

So we can reasonably estimate that at least 200,000 Iraqi civilians have suffered substantial wounds.

Maybe 50,000 kids.

Oh. My. God.

[indepat]

16. And the numerous LTTE writers to my local paper on a single day don't care

a whit how many women and children are slaughtered or maimed in the quest to eradicate terrorism from the face of the earth, or one could reasonably conclude from their words. Houston, we have a problem right here at home.

[iconoclastic cat]

4. May God have mercy on all our souls.

[wtmusic]

5. In the Moonie Times?

Musta been a slow "news" day...

[wookie294]

8. Surprisingly, the moonie times reports news once in a while

For example, who'd a thunk the Moonie Times would have reported on this....

http://www.voxfux.com/features/bush_child_sex_coverup/franklin.htm

[ovidsen]

6. UPI is reporting this?

And the Washington Times??

Two "news" organizations controlled by the ever-so-centrist Sun Myung Moon??

BRB... I have to see if hell's frozen over....

[maquisard]

18. That surprised me as well

Usually the Washington Times can be relied upon to parrot the standard right-wing ra-ra cheerleading line. Kind of makes one wonder how this piece snuck by.

[are_we_united_yet]

7. That is truly a depressing statistic.

[pointless]

9. strange

The total doesn't differentiate between those killed by the US and those killed by the insurgents. It could also include the insurgents. The study doesn't tell us anything except a total number of people killed.

[daleo]

10. Without the invasion there would be no insurgents.

If a man starts a fire in a house, and it spreads to the next house is he not responsible for that fire too?

[Lucky Luciano]

11. Very nice analogy for which there can be no rebuttal. nt

[pointless]

14. if

there had been no American revolution then the US would not have invaded and there would be no insurgents that way either. It's easy to pass blame. What's hard is remembering that those fighting the man we dislike are in some cases even worse than he is. Just remember that this study is not a total killed by American forces in Iraq, it is a total of all the people killed in any number of ways and by numerous different groups. All I'm asking is that you don't represent this number as the total killed by the occupying US forces in Iraq because it is not. Believing that only furthers the hate for our country and us as citizens. It helps fuel the insurgency and will ultimately make the military's job of leaving Iraq that much more difficult and pushes the pullout date farther away.

I want to see us out of Iraq. Do you?

[are_we_united_yet]

15. ?

[Ravenseye]

23. No matter who did it, we are responsible.

Yes you can go back and back and back...Hell it's all Charlemagne's fault really...

The point is that things in Iraq were relatively peacefull. People didn't fear to leave their homes. Yes Saddam was brutal and killed somewhere between 20 and 200 thousand people during his 20 years of terror...But in the past 15 years WE are responsible for 1.3 million deaths caused by the U.S. led sanctions on iraq, followed by the 130k deaths there now. Why? Those 130k people would STILL BE ALIVE if we hadn't invaded. Period. It's direct cause and effect. No U.S. troops didn't kill each and every one, but we still are responsible because it's a bullshit war.

[daleo]

26. I never said all the deaths were directly due to U.S. forces

Although there has been evidence in other articles that a distressing percentage were due to airstrikes and the like. There have been many innocent bystanders killed by both sides, of course.

It is true that there is a causal link between events that can be stretched to the beginnings of time. But, as far as Iraq's current tribulations, these can mostly be traced to Bush's invasion. The Lancet study compared deaths before and after the invasion, and found a substantial excess mortality after the invasion. In that sense, these deaths are best seen as Bush's responsibility.

The insurgency won't end until U.S. forces have left Iraq in my opinion. There may be a role for the U.N. or for some Arab coalition to help assist a true transition government, but these ideas won't really be explored as long as Bush is in power.

[thebigidea]

22. yeah, isn't that funny. I'm sure their families don't differentiate either

I guess because there's GOOD killing and BAD killing, right?

[Ravenseye]

24. There's no differentiation

They blame the U.S., or rather they blame Bush. Most still can separate 'Americans' from 'Bush' though since the last election when our idiotic populace re-elected the bastard, that's seriously slipping.

But no, they blame the U.S. and Bush for every death.

[Inland]

27. But we have to make things better than Saddam, no matter HOW they died

After all, Bush takes credit for saving them from Saddam's torture and killing; now he wants to say that NOT saving them from the insurgents torture and killing isn't his problem?

All Bush has done is change one oppression for another: the oppression of a brutal and murderous dictator for the oppression of a brutal and murderous insurgency, soon to be brutal and murderous civil war fought by several brutal and murderous NEW dictators.

[Hissyspit]

12. I believe Mafkarat al-Islam (Islam Memo) is very reputable.

"When the war of resistance began in Iraq, it was Mafkarat al-Islam alone who dared to report on the resistance that the American forces were being met with. We corroborated their reports with our own limited reporting staff inside Iraq and indeed, we have taken alot of criticism for the reports that appeared on our pages. Meanwhile, what was making it to the front pages of the worlds press was far from the truth of the situation on the ground but we stuck to our guns, as did Mafkarat al-Islam."

http://www.williambowles.info/iraq/mafkarat.html

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. At the beginning of the Iraq War

I tried to keep track of all the different reports in the media of casualties. The International Comm of the Red Cross was an invaluable source at that point because they were going out to the hospitals and the posting their finding on their website every day. Of course, after the invasion Bu$hCo managed to muzzle them, but up until then the numbers they were reporting were disturbing to say the least.

Here's a few samples of their reports that I managed to save. Unfortunately, the ICRC no longer reports this type of information. Based on the information that I've personally collected regarding casualties the 100,000+ dead does not surprise me at all. No wonder Bu$hCo made the ICRC stop.


March 23, 2003

According to hospital sources, 32 newly injured patients and 1 dead person arrived in Yarmouk Hospital and two newly injured people were checked in to Ibn Al-Nafis Hospital. No new arrivals of injured patients were reported in Al-Kindi Hospital.

http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/iwpList4/1186B6BB149D698EC1256CF200540828


March 24, 2003

Baghdad - The ICRC doctor has checked on the situation in several hospitals, which report 60 wounded, including seven seriously injured children, and eight deaths following last night's attacks.

Baghdad (From yesterday, 24 March) - The ICRC doctor visited Al-Yarmouk general teaching hospital and Al-Kindi general hospital. According to authorities at the former, 50 wounded people were admitted during the night from 23 to 24 March and in the morning of 24 March. They also speak of six persons having being killed.

http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/5KYKVR?OpenDocument&style=custo_final



March 27, 2003

The ICRC doctor and his assistant visited four hospitals treating war-wounded patients (Baghdad has 33 hospitals in total but the ICRC focuses primarily on facilities receiving war wounded patients). Three of these hospitals reported 60 wounded and 15 deaths following the bombardments of the night from 25 to 26 March and the morning of 26 March. These figures cannot be independently confirmed.

http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/iwpList534/552B14255CB304D1C1256CF6004C701D

[NNN0LHI]

17. Anyone got any ideas what we are doing with all the bodies?

They must be really stacking up.

Don

[The_Casual_Observer]

20. I would guess that based on these figures it is actually a million

[progressoid]

25. Woo Hoo! Freedom is....

on...

the........

march?

:-(

[SnoopDog]

28. And we are there to liberate them? What ,from their life?

How can killing so many innocent people be giving them their freedom? Or making a democracy in Iraq?

These are truly crimes against humanity. The most ugly kind... Killing innocent people just for money and power.

How much longer are we going to allow our evil murderous government to continue this atrocity?