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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:38 AM
Original message
Bush Vows to Fire Anyone Convicted of Leak
Edited on Mon Jul-18-05 10:41 AM by cal04
President Bush said Monday that if anyone on his staff committed a crime in the CIA-leak case, that person will "no longer work in my administration." At the same time, Bush yet again sidestepped a question on the role of his top political adviser, Karl Rove, in the matter.

"We have a serious ongoing investigation here and it's being played out in the press," Bush said at an East Room news conference.Bush spoke a day after Time magazine's Matthew Cooper said that a 2003 phone call with Rove was the first he heard about the wife of Bush administration critic Joseph Wilson apparently working for the CIA.

A tempest has swirled around the leak of the CIA agent's name, apparently by Bush administration officials, in July 2003. Some Democrats have called for Rove, whose title is deputy chief of staff, to be fired. They have suggested that he violated a 1982 federal law that prohibits the deliberate exposure of the name of a CIA agent.

"It's best people wait until the investigation is complete before you jump to conclusions. I don't know all the facts. I want to know all the facts," Bush said. "I would like this to end as quickly as possible. If someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my administration."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/18/AR2005071800157_pf.html
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050718/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cia_leak_investigation_18
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. So, is The Great Poo-bah going to fire himself?
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. He's backtracking like a mo-fo
Now the standard is "convicted of a crime". Before it was "anyone involved in this will have no place in my administration."
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livinginphotographs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. So if what they did was unethical but not criminal
He won't fire them?

He's just covering his ass. Rove isn't going anywhere unless he actually gets charged.
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Brooklyn Michael Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
46. Thank God Bush promised....
...that his staff would avoid "even the appearance of impropriety".

Watch Junior shuffle, stammer, evade and diss(ass)emble as he tries to walk the line between Karl not actually committing a "crime" per se, and trying not to explain how what he did do was ethically lower than whale shit.

:argh:
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #46
106. I would imagine that whale shit is pretty high up the chain, how about
rat shit.
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. That's a vicious calumny
against self-respecting rats.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
56. Yep. It's as though there is no separate "ethical" threshold

Now that Bush has commented in this way, *post* McClellan saying nothing should be said, the White House Press Corps should feel licensed to grill McClellan on whether Bush has no separate ethics-related criteria for employment.

So long as his employees are not CONVICTED of crimes, then they're A-OK with him.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
73. slimeball!!
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
114. Then they would be promoted, just like in the corporate world. n/t
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. Oh, so now they have to be "convicted"!
That person or persons can continue in his administration till the jury hands down a guilty verdict?

What an arrogant, outrageous thing to tell the American people!!!
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Grab a shovel; time to lower the bar again
How low can he go....
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
79. actully, Jr raised the bar--now need to be a 'criminal' before dismissed.
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
92. "If they're given the death penalty...."
After their sentence has been carried out, they will no longer work in the White House.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
33. "Who cares what you think" GWB 7/4/01 Philadelphia, PA ... eom
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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
5. OK... I am still waiting, Mr. Bush. When are you going to fire Rove?
Read My Lips... I will NOT tell lies. :eyes:
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
6. If a President doesn't know "the facts" related to his top officials
he should resign. I wonder; will he be asked to testify?
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
99. If so, he'll have Dickie Boy holding his hand
like last time.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
7. Just needs the go-ahead from Karl Rove.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
8. Bush doesn't condemn the leaker unless he is convicted.
Obviously the persons guilt is not important only whether the person is actually convicted and is on their way to jail.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
9. Hard to work in the WH when you're already in jail, you know
Real "tough talk" from Bush.

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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
103. The obvious point that needs to be made.
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
10. Fucking flip-flopper
He wanted to fire the leaker--before he didn't want to fire the leaker.
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AndrewJacksonFaction Donating Member (471 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
48. Great Talking Point
Great Talking Point. :)
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
11. It's comforting to know...
that when Rove is actually in a prison cell, he won't be part of the Administration.
These high standards are so impressive!
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Dudley_DUright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #11
27. Of course his next fall back position will be
that Karl can have a phone and fax installed in his cell and easily maintain his effectiveness. :eyes:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
12. Before he said he'd fire anyone who had anything to do with the leak...
Edited on Mon Jul-18-05 10:50 AM by redqueen
NOW he says he'll only fire them if they comitted a crime.

:eyes:
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dissent1977 Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #12
42. Not quite
He is saying they have to be convicted of a crime, a much higher bar then merely commiting a crime. So basically as long as they are not in prison they are welcome in his administration. Bush knows very well that a conviction is unlikely to come for monthes, if not years.
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Pystoff Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #42
59. Ok fine then
About this time next year would be good. Right on schedule for the 06 elections. :evilgrin:
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Dulcinea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
82. Here's some video
http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/

Go down to the little green box that says "Watch Free Video" & click on "Bush on the CIA Leak Investigation."

Note the smirking.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
14. So, even if Rove, Libby, et al are indicted
they'll still work in the Bush misadministration, AND retain their security clearance? Wow. These assholes have no ethical standards AT ALL. But I guess we already knew that.
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halobeam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
15. WP didn't call out the "change" in Bush's policy.
Poor reporting as usual. Wimpasses.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
78. That's AP wire copy- NYT nails it: "Bush changed his stance today..."
WASHINGTON, July 18 - President Bush changed his stance today on his close adviser Karl Rove, stopping well short of promising that anyone in his administration who helped to unmask a C.I.A. officer would be fired.

"If someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my administration," Mr. Bush said in response to a question, after declaring, "I don't know all the facts; I want to know all the facts."

For months, Mr. Bush and his spokesmen have said that anyone involved in the disclosure of the C.I.A. officer's identity would be dismissed. The president's apparent raising of the bar for dismissal today, to specific criminal conduct, comes amid mounting evidence that, at the very least, Mr. Rove provided backhanded confirmation of the C.I.A. officer's identity.

http://nytimes.com/2005/07/18/politics/18cnd-rove.html?ei=5094&en=2663df379f95d150&hp=&ex=1121745600&adxnnl=1&partner=homepage&adxnnlx=1121705828-QgkM3lE8A56NV5Nmgq/53Q
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #78
93. And, my question of Bush is...
"Why the hell don't you know all the facts...you are supposed to be the effing President of the United States...and, you tell us that after two years of this shit, you still don't know all the facts...are you really that damn stupid, or that damn lazy?
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
16. So we have gone from "fire anyone that leaked" to
"fire anyone that is convicted"? Sounds like a Delay move to me. Just change the "rules" to suit your needs, no one will notice, right?

Worst. President. Ever.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
72. Guess that's what all that spin was about not prejudging. Suddenly,
they pull the "innocent until proven guilty" defense. Tell that to the folks in Gitmo.

And this from the f*ckers went to war without any proof or conviction.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
17. Convicted? That a good one, Didn't he say anyone involved
before Rove was implicated?
I thought the word was that he would fire anyone in his administration who was involved in the leak.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Back-Pedal!! All Ahead Stern!!!
Edited on Mon Jul-18-05 10:47 AM by Jeff In Milwaukee
Bush: I will fire anybody convicted on a Thursday and whose nick-name isn't "Turd Blossom."
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
19. Ahh, So Now It's If They Committed A Crime, Huh? And The WP Doesn't Point
out the moving of the goal posts, as usual.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
20. on the msnbc report they said a good follow up would be "indicted or
convicted" ?
yes, it would have been.
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alkaline9 Donating Member (586 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. maybe someone in the press will be wise enough...
...to ask Scotty about that today at 2PM.... He can't say it's part of an ongoing investigation since shrub brought it up 3 hours earlier! My popcorn is ready and waiting!
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
21. 3 - 3.5 years to conviction I'm sure, then it's pardon time baby!
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
22. Convicted and all appeals exhausted and no pardon issued!
THEN they'll be fired, right?
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
23. Actually, he originally said "INVOLVED IN" the leak...
He never said "convicted" or "anyone who has done something naughty."

He said, "involved."

Rove has admitted that he is "involved."

And now Bush is saying, "convicted of leaking."

What if he's convicted of perjury, but not leaking?

What if Bush pardons him and he never has to stand trial?

Damn, I hate that fucker.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
24. The weight on his shoulders is getting heavier and heavier......
Let him keep Rove......

He will ultimately prove he is a lying SOB to the world!!!

Hell if he steal thew election 2 times in a row,
he can rule with only 1% approval rating.

The big question is can the military continue to sacrifice themselves
for dishonorable idiocracy?
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. Next: Bush will fire anyone who is convicted and EXECUTED for treason
Just because someone's convicted and in a jail cell doesn't mean they're really guilty, and it doesn't mean that they can't be productive citizens.

They're just a "bunch of folks" who happen to live in cement rooms with bars.

Of course, once he's dead, Bush will fire Karl Rove.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #30
50. LOL!!!!
But...Ido believe Jon Stewart had it right all along....

A Promotion and a medal of honor will be given to Rove!!!
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bushisanidiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
26. Translation: Fitz is working for KKKarl
AWOL Bush knows he has nothing to worry about with the fox guarding the hen house.
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #26
35. interesting idea
They've had a stranglehold on the media before and it's not been explained how and why the sudden turnaround happened. So, what else supports/contradicts this?
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
28. And I can guarantee there
will be zero cooperation from the WH if any of this does go to trial. They will fight every request for information with the "executive privilege" mantra. They will stonewall and have their spin machine out discrediting everyone who dares speak against them. Sort of like now. Only more so.

Mz Pip
:dem:
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
29. How can Bush handle Terrorism he can't handle this simple case!
Why not just ask Rove and Liddy yourself, you D- student!
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #29
36. He had less clear evidence for the war in Iraq
This is as if Saddam's lawyer had said, "Saddam admits that he has been involved in a WMD program, but only to correct misinformation in the media that he had a doomsday device."

Bush couldn't investigate his way out of a paper bag.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #36
94. Excellent point!! eom
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
31. George, ask Gonzales: due process is for sissies. n/t
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #31
40. Is Lyndie busy this week?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
32. 'Convicted.'
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yvr girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #32
51. There might be some pesky rule about a felon working at the
White House. I hear a criminal record can wreak havoc with your security clearance.
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
34. Chimpy, something tells me this will not add points to your tanking
Do you think the Preznit is honest polls? Seems like pretty obvious weazel words to me. Wanna bet the majority of the American people will think so too?
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
37. BuzzFlash has it right; say Rove and treason together.....
In the same sentence. We want this to drag out as long as possible. We want the world to see the * misAdministration for what it really is. We want them to deny and cover up every day. We want Scottie made a fool of every day while he squirms. And we want the word RNC and traitors linked forever.
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
38. QUOTE
"If there is a leak out of my administration I want to know who it is, and if the person has violated the law, the person will be taken care of". (g.w. bush sept. 03)
Taken care of, given a pardon and a cush job in defense.
Is it too late to storm the fucking whitehouse?
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dissent1977 Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
39. The key word here is "convicted"
Bush knows that it is going to be a long time before anyone is going to be convicted. First the grand jury has to report back, and then they have to go to a criminal trial. Their lawyers know how to delay the process and it could easily be a couple years or more before anyone is convicted.

The facts of this case show that Rove was clearly involved in the leak however, his lawyer has even admitted as much. He is a national security threat and he needs to go now, we don't have time to wait for a conviction.
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fob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
101. Where does he* say "convicted"? The quote I see he* says "committed".
So far he*s moved from "involved" to "committed" and I'm sure a move to "convicted" isn't far off but did he actually go there already?
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dissent1977 Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. I was going off the title of the piece
The title is "Bush vows to fire anyone convicted of leak". Now it is possible the title is misleading, but when Bush talks of this "ongoing investigation" it appears that it may accurately reflect Bush policy.
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fob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #104
105. So bush* does the flip-flop and the media helps him along with
an additional bit of wordsmithing on their own. Typical.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
41. There's a short video clip at the Yahoo link- Junior's getting testy
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #41
76. link says Bush wants to know all the facts!--well, Jr--why not ask your
advisors???


from your yahoo links.

"It's best people wait until the investigation is complete before you jump to conclusions. I don't know all the facts. I want to know all the facts," Bush said Monday. "I would like this to end as quickly as possible. If someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my administration."

It was the second time that Bush, when asked specifically about Rove's involvement in the matter, passed up an opportunity to come to his adviser's defense.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. Bush: Any Criminals in Leak to Be Fired (yahoo headline)---you need to
be convicted of a crime before he will dismiss them.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
43. Where's Cheney????
Oh! Here he is!
http://tinyurl.com/co9b4

Voices of restraint give way to Bush hawks beating war drums ever louder
By Peter Hartcher
July 19, 2005

When John Howard called on Dick Cheney and Richard Armitage in Washington yesterday, he was seeing champions of the two opposing forces in the Bush Administration's first term. Cheney is the arch-hawk of the Administration. He may be the US Vice-President, but on many issues of foreign policy he is the driving force.

"The invasion of Iraq was in many ways Dick Cheney's war," wrote a close student of the Administration, James Mann, in Rise of the Vulcans: The History of Bush's War Cabinet. Armitage, with his boss and alter ego, the secretary of state, Colin Powell, was the voice of restraint in the Administration.

<snip>
"A lot of people who support the President are really not interested in the facts on the ground," Campbell says. "There really is a faith-based belief in the President as a person and in his ability to remake reality."

So where others believe the Iraq adventure has clarified the limits to US power, the Bush Administration believes it illustrates the need for the application of yet more power. Brzezinski sums up: "To put it simply, if we weren't in a mess in Iraq we would be repeating it in Iran or Syria."




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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
44. What a meaningless statement.
Unless you want Rove to do his job from jail, you'd sure as hell better fire him. Of course, you'll pardon him immediately afterwards, I'm sure.
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blue northern Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
45. Backpeddling
Maybe that's why * falls off his tricycle so often.
The neocons are trying to spin and shape this to protect Rove. {surprise, surprise :sarcasm:}

From a 2003 WH press briefing:

Q: Scott, has anyone -- has the president tried to find out who outed the CIA agent? And has he fired anyone in the White House yet?

McCLELLAN: Well, Helen, that's assuming a lot of things. First of all, that is not the way this White House operates. The president expects everyone in his administration to adhere to the highest standards of conduct. No one would be authorized to do such a thing.

>snip

McCLELLAN: The president has set high standards, the highest of standards for people in his administration. He's made it very clear to people in his administration that he expects them to adhere to the highest standards of conduct. If anyone in this administration was involved in it, they would no longer be in this administration.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/09/20030929-7.html


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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
47. Sorry, Dubya, Your Credibility Is Nil With Me
I don't believe you'd really fire him if convicted, you have deceived me too many times before.

Of course, I don't think you'd go so far as to pardon him, but you will find a way to slither out of this statement as you have so many others.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
49. "If anyone is prosecuted, convicted, and executed..."
"...they will no longer work in my administration."

Thanks for clearing that up, asshole.
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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. Unless their zombie is particularly qualified
or a good friend of mine, in which case, maybe they can still have a job.

I hope the media covers the backtracking.

david
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
53. PREDICTION: rove to become outside 'consultant'
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. That's what I'm thinking, too
Rove will "walk away" and become with "honor in service to his country". Meanwhile, back at the ranch...with no oversight that would be required in the status of WH staffer, he's running the show with absolute freedom.

The only way is to get Rove out WITH someone(s) who are higher than he is...Hmmm could that be his BOSS, maybe?
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
54. He may not get the chance to fire anyone if he waits too long.
He may be indicted right along with them. It would be hard not to draw the conclusion if the Vice President and Bush's own top adviser are both indicted that he isn't part of a conspiracy.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
57. Convicted?!?
When will that be, 2020?

What a waste a protoplasm.

"There's a lot of 'Senior Officials' in this white house. I may never find out who leaked".
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
58. Come out with your hands up!
Just kidding. Kegger dude! Come on Rove, let's light our farts and have a kegger party. Dow's up; Baghdad's ours; Life's goooooood! Burp.

Sorry. I'm in exhuastion overtime. Can't believe this is our new reality. Even if temporary.

Ignore this post. We now return you to your regular intelligent DU programming.

Kegger dude! Kegger dude! (fading into distance) kegger dude.......
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
60. I'm kinda glad he didn't say "indicted." Makes me think...
... maybe they are expecting indictments of people they don't want to fire. In any case, he will never get away with "conviction" as a standard. Will he?
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Bush_Eats_Beef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
61. "I would like this to end as quickly as possible...
...so's ah kin git back to the business of KILLIN', y'all...Cuz ah'm a WAR PRESIDENT."

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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
62. "Convicted" is the operative word, here.
He must be confident that's not going to happen to be making such a "vow."
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
63. "Committed a crime" - that explains all the hashing of whether it was
illegal or simply unethical. Guess the WH is pretty sure it can't be considered a criminal offense by the book.
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Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. Great game of "Find the Weasel Word"
From the Yahoo link, AP story...

"President Bush said Monday that if anyone on his staff committed a crime in the CIA-leak case, that person will "no longer work in my administration."

No "crime" (Liddy talking point), no penalty...not proven til after 2008 or Karl decides to "spend time with his family", no penalty....move Karl off-staff, no penalty....
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #65
80. Hey there Maeve! Yep, they're playing weasel word here, and
whack a mole in Iraq. Ever wonder about their pre-occupation with rodents?

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Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #80
89. Rodents are what they know...and what they are... eom
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JRob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
64. I'm not holding my breath...
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UCLA Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
66. Trying desperately to keep KKKarl.. they must not think he'll get convicted
Edited on Mon Jul-18-05 12:10 PM by UCLA Dem
I think though, if we keep the pressure on, he may have to backtrack this little remark as well.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
67. Convicted?
I bet he will make sure no one is convicted.
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osaMABUSh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
68. Bush says NOTHING; no shit you'd fire somebody if convicted
of a crime. Where they going work from? The jail cell? What a moran!!!
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. Ha Ha!
:7 That's funny!
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #68
83. Work release
He gets out every morning at eight, but, has to report back to his cell by five.
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
69. Fire ALL of them!
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
70. If he pardons them, are they still "convicted"
Always be on the lookout for slippery language.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. Jr. 'raised the bar' for dismissal!!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. only if a crime was committed was the Repug talking point this weekend.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
81. 1) Convicted of violating the Intel Protection Act (not perjury) AND
Edited on Mon Jul-18-05 12:45 PM by alcibiades_mystery
2) a finalist in America's Next Top Model

will be asked to leave immediately....

:eyes:
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skip fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
84. To the best. The longer W. keeps him, esp. if indicted, the better.
Rove could be the first large visible case to the public of the Republicans' methods and can begin to change public opinion from the "party of personal responsibility" to the party with some human (not corporate or private) sense of values.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
85. Cripes, check out this "so sue me" look on * face. Looks like he's
pretty confident that this will appease the masses.

http://news.bostonherald.com/politics/view.bg?articleid=94342

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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
86. This is BAD news for us. The only way that Bush would issue
such a clear statement is if the Administration has determined that Rove is in the clear.

This is the type of statement that is hard to bob and weave around and Rove is not stupid enough to let Bush say this witout reason.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. Guess it depends on whether Fitz is going deeper or not - did Rove
lie to the GJ?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aagJweX0XNCQ&refer=us

July 18 (Bloomberg) -- The fate of White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove may rest with the old Watergate question: What did he know and when did he know it?

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation of the leaking of a Central Intelligence Agency agent's name is now focused on how Rove, one of President George W. Bush's closest advisers, and other administration officials dealt with a key fact in an equally key memo.

snip>

Others see difficulties in these arguments. They note the contradiction between Rove's testimony to the grand jury that he learned Plame's name from Novak and his statement to Novak during the July 8 phone call that ``I've heard that, too.''

Potential Problem

This points toward a potential problem for Rove in the direction of Fitzgerald's investigation. It now has expanded beyond its original mission -- to determine if the 1982 law was violated -- to encompass whether any White House officials, including Rove and Fleischer, have testified falsely about the case or obstructed justice by trying to cover up their involvement in the leak, according to people familiar with the case who cite a pattern of questioning by Fitzgerald.

In addition, there is strong reason to believe that Fitzgerald is hunting big game, according to several legal experts. They say that is demonstrated by the fact that he has done something that no federal prosecutor has done in 30 years: send a reporter, Judith Miller of the New York Times, to jail for refusing to divulge with whom she spoke about the Wilson-Plame case.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. it is great to see Rove/Bush on the front pages for another day!!
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 01:34 PM
Original message
I think it is politically a good thing for us...
Rove has finally become an albatross around this administration's neck--I mean if the Democrats aren't smart enough to showcase these two inconsistent statements--"I'll fire anyone involved," and "I'll fire anyone who has committed a crime." and show it as a flip-flop--immoral, etc.---then, Dems don't deserve their jobs.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
90. Ok, all you RW, religious right trolls reading this post...
tell us again how moral this president is.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
91. more flip flops from the *administration
:puke:
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
95. Look in the mirror and then have a debate with yourself
and then fire the stupid Commander in Chief.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
96. Is it just me...or
does Bush now look SO Nixonian. "Karl is not a crook."
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
97. He's a flip-flopper, flip-flopper!
Oh, yes, bringing integrity back into the White House. ;-)

But integrity has to use the servant's entrance and is limited to menial labor, certainly having no influence on decisionmaking.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. Saddam should still be Prez. of Iraq.
He has not been convicted of any crimes.
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
100. Only if it was in the study, with the candlestick.
wtf is bush playing at, "If he's *CONVICTED*"?! No shit, I already know you can't work in the white house if you've been conv...

Oh, wait, I guess you can. Weren't all the death squad guys from the '80s resurrected for this new cabal? Why doesn't anybody ever mention that? :shrug:
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ecdab Donating Member (834 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
102. What a two faced piece of.............
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candy331 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
108. Well why the hell has OJ been treated like shit since he was not
Edited on Mon Jul-18-05 06:05 PM by candy331
found guilty of a crime. I do hope this is really " the straw that breaks the camel's back".
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. oj
Daniel Petrucelli might disagree, re: OJ.

More pertinently was the point about our languishing, tortured prisoners in Iraq, Afghanistan, Guantanamo, Egypt, etc. Guilty without a trial.
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antonialee839 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
110. So President Stupid wants to know all the facts?
What's the matter with walking ten feet down the hall and asking Benedict Karl what went down?
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
111. KICK ASS MR. WAXMAN: Pres obligated to enforce Exec Order 12958
http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_22933.shtml

Waxman: Bush Statement on Rove Conflicts with Executive Order
By Rep. Henry A. Waxman
YubaNet

Monday 18 July 2005

Dear Mr. President:

In June 2004, you said that you would fire anyone found to be involved in the disclosure of Valerie Wilson's identity as a covert CIA agent. <1> Today, you significantly changed your position, stating that you would remove Karl Rove or other White House officials involved in the security breach only "if someone committed a crime." <2>

Your new standard is not consistent with your obligations to enforce Executive Order 12958, which governs the protection of national security secrets. The executive order states: "Officers and employees of the United States Government ... shall be subject to appropriate sanctions if they knowingly, willfully, or negligently ... disclose to unauthorized persons information properly classified." <3> Under the executive order, the available sanctions include "reprimand, suspension without pay, removal, termination of classification authority, loss or denial of access to classified information, or other sanctions." <4>

Under the executive order, you may not wait until criminal intent and liability are proved by a prosecutor. Instead, you have an affirmative obligation to take "appropriate and prompt corrective action." <5> And the standards of proof are much different. A criminal violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, which Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald is investigating, requires a finding that Mr. Rove "intentionally disclose" the identity of a covert agent. <6> In contrast, the administrative sanctions under Executive Order 12958 can be imposed without a finding of intent. Under the express terms of the executive order, you are required to impose administrative sanctions - such as removal of office or termination of security clearance - if Mr. Rove or other officials acted "negligently" in disclosing or confirming information about Ms. Wilson's identity. <7>

I have enclosed a fact sheet on Karl Rove's Nondisclosure Agreement and its legal implications, which provides additional detail about the President's national security obligations. I urge you to act in compliance with Executive Order 12958 and your responsibility to safeguard national security secrets.

Sincerely,

Henry A. Waxman
Ranking Minority Member



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<1> Press Conference: President Discusses Job Creation With Business Leaders (Sept. 30, 2003).
<2> Bush: CIA Leaker Would Be Fired if Crime Committed, Reuters (July 18, 2005); Bush: Any Criminals in Leak to Be Fired, Associated Press (July 18, 2005).
<3> Executive Order 12958, sec. 5.5(b)
<4> Id. at sec. 5.5(c).
<5> Id. at sec. 5.5(e).
<6> 50 USC sec. 421(a).
<7> Executive Order 12958, sec. 5.5(b).

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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. THANK Waxman: ph here:
In Washington, D.C.
2204 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
(202) 225-3976 (phone)
(202) 225-4099 (fax)
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-05 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #112
113. BURY the White House in e mail: president@whitehouse.gov


July 18, 2005

Mr. President:


'Appropriate sanctions' would be in order pertaining to Mr. Rove's behavior pertaining to the outing of a CIA agent who was involving herself in out national security.

Please fire, Mr. Rove, Mr. President.

Sincerely,



Per Mr. Waxman's letter to you today, Mr. President:

"Your new standard is not consistent with your obligations to enforce
Executive Order 12958, which governs the protection of national security
secrets. The executive order states: "Officers and employees of the United
States Government ... shall be subject to appropriate sanctions if they
knowingly, willfully, or negligently ... disclose to unauthorized persons
information properly classified." <3> Under the executive order, the
available sanctions include "reprimand, suspension without pay, removal,
termination of classification authority, loss or denial of access to classified
information, or other sanctions." <4> ..."
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