Public execution for the teenagers convicted of rape ( Iran)

[OKNancy]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-1703858,00.html

Public execution for the teenagers convicted of rape
By Our Foreign Staff

IRAN has publicly hanged two male teenagers convicted of raping a 13-year-old boy at knifepoint. After the Supreme Court upheld the verdict of child rape, they were executed on Tuesday in Edalat (Justice) Square in the city of Mashhad.

The British gay rights group Outrage! has accused Iran of torturing the two into confessing that they had homosexual sex. It believes that the assault charges were a smokescreen to justify killing homosexuals.

Pictures of the hangings, on the ISNA student news agency website, showed the terrified young men crying as they were interviewed by state media in a lorry on the way to the gallows. Another picture showed hangmen in balaclavas tightening the nooses around their necks.

Iran’s religiously conservative judiciary decided that the pair had raped the 13-year-old at knifepoint while he was out cycling in the northeast province of Khorassan. The young men’s ages were not released but Ruhollah Rezazadeh, the lawyer for one of them, told ISNA that he was under 18, yet the judiciary had refused to spare him for being too young. The other accused was said to be 18 years old.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Iran executes gay teenagers

Boys didn't know sex was "punishable by death"



By OutRage! News Service

Two gay teenagers were publicly executed in Iran on 19 July 2005 for the 'crime' of homosexuality.
The youths were hanged in Edalat (Justice) Square in the city of Mashhad, in north east Iran. They were sentenced to death by Court No. 19.
Iran enforces Islamic Sharia law, which dictates the death penalty for gay sex.
One youth was aged 18 and the other was a minor under the age of 18. They were only identified by their initials, M.A. and A.M.
They admitted to having gay sex (probably under torture) but claimed in their defence that most young boys had sex with each other and that they were not aware that homosexuality was punishable by death.
Prior to their execution, the teenagers were held in prison for 14 months and severely beaten with 228 lashes.
Their length of detention suggests that they committed the so-called offences more than a year earlier, when they were possibly around the age of 16.

<snip>

"According to Iranian human rights campaigners, over 4,000 lesbians and gay men have been executed since the Ayatollahs seized power in 1979. "Altogether, an estimated 100,000 Iranians have been put to death over the last 26 years of clerical rule. The victims include women who have sex outside of marriage and political opponents of the Islamist government.
"Last August, a 16 year old girl, Atefeh Rajabi, was hanged for 'acts incompatible with chasity.'

<snip>

http://outrage.nabumedia.com/pressrelease.asp?ID=302

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. Dominionists' goal is to make them indistinguishable.

[Tesha]

18. What's the difference? (NT)

[Swamp Rat]

4. Poor kids!

:cry:

[wake.up.america]

5. Pretty sad.

What did those kids ever do to hurt anybody by being gay?

[Swamp Rat]

11. Mitä kuuluu?

:hi:

[shadowknows69]

14. it would be done here if certain groups had their way

[pseudostar]

50. Let's not forget the charge

They didnt hurt anyone by being gay, but they were convicted of RAPING a 13 year old boy at knifepoint.

[Violet_Crumble]

57. Rapists don't get executed if their victim is a woman..

From what I've read, what happens is that the rape victim is charged with adultery, which is punishable by death....

In Iran, if a woman is raped, she is considered an adulteress and faces death by stoning. But if a woman fights off a sexual predator and kills him, she can then be tried for murder and face death by hanging.

If a man is proven to have raped a woman, his punishment is execution by hanging. But in almost all cases, the man is set free because judges traditionally look for signs in the behavior and clothing of the woman in order to explain away the act of rape. A Persian-language proverb goes like this: "It is the tree that hosts the worm," meaning rape is caused by women and their suggestive behavior.

http://www.womenenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/1650/context/cover/

[barb162]

43. what's proper punishment for raping a 13-year-old boy at knifepoint

please assume I believe the punishment was absurdly overboard and I am not looking for a flame. If they committed this crime, what...five years in prison, what? (I cannot tell from this story if they really committed this crime...it seems there is some doubt they were possibly beaten into confessing)

[slackmaster]

51. I can tell you what would probably happen in California

Upon conviction the perp would be sentenced to be held in juvenile detention until age 18, then several years of summary probation and requirement to register as a sex offender.

[Nay]

6. this is just disgusting. WTH is the matter with people? Those poor

kids.

[Tai-chi]

7. Iran is worse than USA

U.S. Prison Population, World's Highest, Up Again
Sun Apr 24, 2005 04:36 PM ET

By Alan Elsner

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. penal system, the world's largest, maintained its steady growth in 2004, the Department of Justice reported on Sunday.

The latest official half-yearly figures found the nation's prison and jail population at 2,131,180 in the middle of last year, an increase of 2.3 percent over 2003.

The United States has incarcerated 726 people per 100,000 of its population, seven to 10 times as many as most other democracies. The rate for England is 142 per 100,000, for France 91 and for Japan 58.

As of December 31, 2003, one in every 140 U.S. residents was confined in a state or federal prison or a local jail.
The bulletin, "Prisoners in 2003 (NCJ-205335)," was written by BJS statisticians Paige M. Harrison and Allen J. Beck. Following publication, this document can be accessed at:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=T4G0H1HSHW0CECRBAEKSFFA?type=domesticNews&storyID=8274699

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/p03.htm

[area51]

8. republinazi party

This is what the republinazi party would love to do in the U.S.

[drdon326]

9. Hanging Gays now.Cant wait for them to get a friggin nuke.

yeah,no reason to worry if this country gets a nuke.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

31. Last time I looked, only one country has actually used nukes....

...against another country. Can you guess who that may be?

Additionally, you should be more concerned with the actions of the NeoCon Junta if they ever find an opportunity to use one or more nukes themselves. My bet is that they'll use a nuke long before Iran either develops nuclear weapons themselves, or manages to buy one.

[xtreme69]

37. Those were atomic weapons

No country has used modern nukes against any other country that I'm aware of. A hydrogen bomb is a bit different than plutonium based nukes. For example, right now the Japanese live in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. However, had we used modern nukes on them, they wouldn't be able to live there for oh...maybe 30,000-50,000 years or so? Weapons grade plutonium half life: 25,000 years.

Tihs is my understanding of it anyway.

"The atomic nucleus contains elementary particles called protons and neutrons. The nuclear energy holding them together is thousands of times stronger than the chemical energy binding atoms together in molecules (like TNT, for example). For certain very heavy elements (uranium 235 and plutonium 239), the nucleus is almost unstable, When hit by a neutron, it will split, or "fission," into two smaller nuclei, which fly violently apart, releasing nuclear energy and more neutrons. If a "critical mass" of such an element (a few kilograms) is rapidly brought together in a bomb, the average neutron cannot escape from the mass before it hits and splits another nucleus. This releases more neutrons, each of which repeats the process. The resulting runaway nuclear "chain reaction" bums through the fuel in a few millions of a second, liberating energy equal to that in many tons of conventional explosives. All nuclear weapons use fission as the basic process for making a nuclear explosion. Most current nuclear weapons, however, use a fission bomb to trigger the "fusion" of hydrogen nuclei. The resulting "thermonuclear" or "hydrogen bombs" are far more efficient and destructive than atomic bombs. There is in principle no limit to the power of hydrogen bombs."

Seems I had it reversed somewhat. :)

[non sociopath skin]

10. Muslim Fundis ... Christian Fundis ...

I look from man to pig and pig to man and see no difference.

The Skin

[Cronus Protagonist]

21. Pigs never hang their children for touching each others genitals

Not to disagree with you at all, but these people are behaving less graciously than pigs. Some of these Islamic fundamentalists could take a lesson from pigs.

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[Bossy Monkey]

12. From the Times Online:

July 22, 2005

Public execution for the teenagers convicted of rape
By Our Foreign Staff

IRAN has publicly hanged two male teenagers convicted of raping a 13-year-old boy at knifepoint. After the Supreme Court upheld the verdict of child rape, they were executed on Tuesday in Edalat (Justice) Square in the city of Mashhad.

The British gay rights group Outrage! has accused Iran of torturing the two into confessing that they had homosexual sex. It believes that the assault charges were a smokescreen to justify killing homosexuals.

Pictures of the hangings, on the ISNA student news agency website, showed the terrified young men crying as they were interviewed by state media in a lorry on the way to the gallows. Another picture showed hangmen in balaclavas tightening the nooses around their necks.

Iran’s religiously conservative judiciary decided that the pair had raped the 13-year-old at knifepoint while he was out cycling in the northeast province of Khorassan. The young men’s ages were not released but Ruhollah Rezazadeh, the lawyer for one of them, told ISNA that he was under 18, yet the judiciary had refused to spare him for being too young. The other accused was said to be 18 years old.

(more)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-1703858,00.html

[sadiesworld]

13. It appears from the Time article that the two were executed for

raping a 13-year-old. Isn't Outrage! the same group who was claiming to have received warnings of Islamic fundamentalists threatening to blow up gay bars, etc.?

Black opps? Regardless, they don't seem very credible.

[OKNancy]

15. outrage

is a biased source, also this is a press release, and the headline is rather inflammatory. It doesn't mean it isn't true, but the Times article would be a better source.

From the LBN rules:

5. Whenever possible, post excerpts and links from reputable mainstream news sources that are available online. Do not link to blogs, vanity sites, or blatantly biased sources, except in cases where reputable mainstream sources are not available. Please make an effort to link directly to the original source of an article, instead of linking to sites that have re-published someone else's content, or re-packaged someone else's content as their own. The moderators have the authority to decide which websites are appropriate for posting in the Latest Breaking News forum and which are not.

[TreasonousBastard]

19. It appears that the Times article is also using Outrage as...

one of its primary sources. Outrage may have been the only one to have translated the ISNA reportage so far, and all Iranian news media are under heavy state control, so even less trustworthy.

For another view of this, with links to Iranian sources:

http://direland.typepad.com/

<...>
"Ruhollah Rezazadeh, the lawyer of the younger of the two boys, had appealed that he was too young to be executed and that the court should take into account his tender age (believed to be 16 or 17). But the Supreme Court in Tehran Ordered him to be hanged." The Iranian authorities are putting out a cover story that the two boys had participated in the rape of a 12-year-old, but OutRage affirms from its sources that this accusation is a smokescreen for inhuman conduct and is without foundation. However, the Murdoch press (e.g., the Times of London) is putting about the Iranian government's story as a virtual statement of fact. But there is no mention of this Iranian government accusation in the original ISNA report, otherwise quite detailed.-- which rather suggests it's a recent invention."
<...>

And, Doug Ireland also depends heavily on Outrage here.


It does appear, however, that Iran has in fact executed these two, and, regardless of the minor details, that was a barbaric and inhuman act.

[sadiesworld]

20. Rape is a minor detail?

Do tell.

[TreasonousBastard]

25. In terms of the story, yes, it is...

If these kids did in fact forcibly rape the other one, that would in itself be a horrible act, but there really isn't any evidence other than the followups from the state news services. It is entirely possible that the "rape" allegation came from confessions under torture.

The simple truth is that all we know is that they were hung, and regardless of the offense, that is in itself a barbaric act of the state.

[sadiesworld]

27. This is utter crap.

The Times article states that the two boys were executed for raping a third boy, while Outrage! maintains that the two were executed for engaging in consensual sex with each other. These are two fundamentally different stories and the truth is certainly relevant in assessing the appropriate level of "outrage".

I can see why the clerics would lie here. But I can also see why certain someones would like to see the left in an uproar about Iran. I don't know the truth, nor do you. Yet someone saw fit to post the Outrage! story w/o caveat and many here are jumping on the bandwagon without any concern for the truth.

[Robb]

30. I agree, this is bullshit LBN.

I see better sourcing on 4-H stories in my local paper.

The two possible stories are very, very different. Neither one has any kind of work put into it; it's just "whose press release you gonna believe?" crap.

And no, to whomever asks next, I am not immediately predisposed to not believe Iran. Or put another way, if Cheney told you the sky was blue, would you call him a liar? :eyes:

[devinsgram]

17. How sad.

I believe Rev. Phelps and Iran would get along very well together.

[CWebster]

16. public execution of Muslim teenegers

on the British streets...

[wli]

22. neofascists nazis will do this here if they're not ejected from office

First they come for the Muslims.
Then they come for the gays.
Then they come for the atheists.
Then they come for you.

This is naked Nazism we're up against. It must be stopped. We can't let Fitzgerald's investigation end in a whitewash. We must press for the whole truth, investigating, indicting, and convicting every last neoconservative neo-Nazi in the White House, Congress, Supreme Court, and Republican Party.

[pseudostar]

34. Niemöller aside...

Am I the only one here that is in favor of public executions for rapists?

Rape is a very serious very terrible crime and if these two buggered a 12/13 year old against his will, they should fucking swing.

Imagine a 12/13 year old you personally know. Now imagine him getting raped by some juniors in the local HS. Do you really want those assholes going to juevie jail?

As for due process, IRAN is not the USA... They have the rule of law and apply it differently than we do. Yeah, both systems are fucked up as shit, but unless you want to go 'democratize' the country you have to accept (not endorse or praise) the sovereignty of their judicial system.

So, who's up for 'liberating' all those poor gay teenagers in Iran?

[Puglover]

36. Yeah Pseudostar.

To answer your question. I'm fairly certain you're about the only one here who favors public execution for minors.

[pseudostar]

47. nice definition switch

but I prefer to focus on the fact that these two were convicted of some seriously heinous stuff, not the fact that they can't buy lotto tickets in NYS.

This is hardly a "Boys will be boys" youthful indiscretion. I dont think ANYONE would disagree that these 'childrapists' should be tried as adults.

And While I realize it isn't the majority opinion at DU, I believe that Murder 1 and Rape 1 should be death penalty offenses applied evenly accross the board.

If the justice system in Iran pegged these two right, Im not going to lose any sleep over this 'barbarism'.

[Puglover]

60. No definition switch at all.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

"Now imagine him getting raped by some juniors in the local HS"

Last time I checked "juniors" are 16-17 years old.

Neither I nor anyone else on this thread suggested that if indeed these boys raped a 13 at knife point it was a "boys will be boys youthful indiscretion" Those are your words. If they did rape another child of course it's a serious matter.

True the 1st sentence of your original post advocated public execution for rapists and said nothing of minors however the rest of your post "they should fucking swing" leaves no doubt what your opinion is.

I simply answered your question. This is a progressive discussion board and most progressives that I know are not in favor of public executions.

I also take issue with your statement "I don't think ANYONE would disagree that these "childrapists" should be tried as adults." I think plenty would disagree with you there. Tell me, at what age do you think children should be tried as adults? 16? 12? 8?

[LeftHander]

23. Again part of an effort to dehumanize Iran...

Seem of late a strategy is to make sure that any news story painting Iran in a bad light tops the news.

Make no mistake the U.S. has sent teenagers to death row and has convicted minors as adults in thousands of cases. Sending teens as young as 14 to mainstream prison for life.

They didn't list the minors of death (now off thanks to recent SCOTUS)

[Maven]

24. Utter nonsense.

We didn't send teenagers to death row for f*cking.

[The Stranger]

29. Give the New Supreme Court some time . . .

. . . and maybe a few more justices who speak out openly against the Constitutional "right to privacy."

[LynnTheDem]

42. Yes we did.

Christopher Simmons - 17 years old at the time of crime, Missouri.
On January 26, 2004, the United States Supreme Court announced that it will hear Chris's case (Roper v. Simmons) and re-examine the constitutionality of executing young offenders.

Mauro Barraza - 17 years old at the time of the crime, Texas
The U.S. Supreme Court stayed the execution of Mauro scheduled for June 29, 2004.

Edward Capetillo - 17 years old at the time of crime, Texas
Edward faced an execution date of March 30, 2004. The United States Supreme Court has granted him a stay in light of its decision to hear the case of Roper v. Simmons, in which it will reconsider the consitutionality of the juvenile death penalty.

Ronald Chris Foster - 17 years old at time of crime, Mississippi.
On January 6, 2003, Governor Ronnie Musgrove granted a reprieve to Ronald Chris Foster who was facing an execution date of January 8. The Governor has stated that the reprieve will stand until the "judicial process is done." On June 19, 2003, the Mississippi Supreme Court granted Chris an evidentiary hearing on the issue of whether he is mentally retarded and, thus, ineligible for the death penalty.

Anzel Jones - 17 years old at the time of the crime, Texas
Anzel faced an execution date of April 29, 2004. The United States Supreme Court has granted him a stay in light of its decision to hear the case of Roper v. Simmons, in which it will reconsider the consitutionality of the juvenile death penalty.

Lee Boyd Malvo - 17 years old at time of crime
The Virginia jury that convicted Lee of capital murder returned a sentencing recommendation of life without parole on December 23, 2003. He was formally sentenced to that punishment on March 10, 2004.

Efrain Perez - 17 years old at the time of the crime, Texas
Efrain was facing an execution date of June 23, 2004, but the date was withdrawn.

Nanon Williams - 17 years old at time of crime, Texas
The United States Supreme Court declined to hear Nanon's Petition for Writ of Certiorari.


Raul Villarreal - 17 years old at the time of crime, Texas
Raul was facing an execution date of June 24, 2004, but the date was withdrawn.

[Voltaire99]

56. Well researched, Lynn. (nt)

[Maven]

58. Your post is deliberately deceptive.

Here are the alleged crimes of the people you listed:

Christopher Simmons: Murder of a young girl after binding and torturing her (confessed).

Mauro Barazza: Murder.

Ronald Chris Foster: Murder.

Anzel Jones: Murder.

Lee Boyd Malvo: Multiple murders.

Efrain Perez: Gang rape and murder of a teenaged girl.

Nanon Williams: Murder (accused of shooting someone in the face).

Now, tell me: what on earth has this got to do with my comment? That is, how can you compare executing someone for murder with executing them for consensual sex?

Argue the merits (or lack thereof) of taking one life for another, whether the offender is a teenager or adult. (I'm against the death penalty under any circumstances.) But don't provide "evidence" that deliberately conflates two very different issues.

The political climate sucks right now and it's tempting to shift into we're-no-better mode whenever something barbaric happens elsewhere. But don't twist reality to prove a point--that's the other side's game. :)

[Don Claybrook]

26. Goddamnit, can you stop for a minute

and just say that wrong is wrong?

The last thing I want to do is to invade Iran. There's no justification for it; they haven't done anything to us.

But this in no way forgives a government for executing two teenagers who may or may not have done something wrong. Even if they did rape the other kid, they didn't need to be hung publicly for the crime; they needed to go to jail.

And before anyone even says it, my excoriation of the Iranian government in no way excuses the summary executions my government seems to carry out almost daily in Iraq.

I have a hatred for the Bush Administration, but it's not a blind hatred that precludes me from commenting on the atrocities committed by those governments who just happen to be anti-Bush, whether in North Korea, Chechnya, or Iran.

[The Stranger]

28. Wake up, my friend.

Everyone knows it is wrong. Horribly wrong. But there are other wrongs vastly more far-reaching -- things like invasions and illegal wars. In those situations, murder and rape is a daily occurrence, and public support for invasions and wars is the aim of and goal of propaganda.

[Don Claybrook]

32. I don't need to wake up. Did you read what I posted?

No need to try to tag me with a naivety label. Do a search; read my posts. I think I know the score, I think I understand propaganda, I think I have a pretty good idea what my country does on a daily basis (again, did you bother to read my short post?).

If you have some information that this hanging didn't actually happen, I'd be interested in hearing about it. Otherwise, all of my points stand.

[Psephos]

45. I'm with you all the way, Don Claybrook

Your previous posts speak for themselves. Calling a spade a spade in Iran has nothing to do with our opposition to the home regime. What could be more basic to the liberal mindset than to speak forcefully against injustice and misery, *wherever* they arise?

Besides, when someone refers to me as "my friend," I know they mean exactly the opposite, and are going to try to gore me with condescension.

Funny, isn't it, what happens to people when their politics or religion become the dominant feature of their existence.

Peace.

[Voltaire99]

59. "Wrong is wrong"

Certainly in a society suffused with rape, such as the United States, we can work up less umbrage about a society in which personal inviolability is fiercely protected by law.

Here, the jailing of rapists--a remedy you are quick to advocate--has proved wholly inadequate to the problem except as short-term deterrence.

Iran's cruelly extreme justice stands in contrast to our own lax equivalent regarding rape, where the diminution of the crime begins with the rules of evidence strictly favoring the accused--even before social prejudice damns the accuser--and continues through minimum and deferred sentencing.

And when rape sentencing is outpaced by that for property theft or drug possession, we become a society floundering in almost infantile wonder before what truly matters: human dignity.

In short, rape is low among our social priorities. Could it be that ethos informs your outrage?

[ButterflyBlood]

55. were those teens executed for being gay?

I do not support the death penalty in any cases but you can not compare this.

[Vogon_Glory]

33. And If The Victim Had Been Female...

And if the rape victim had been female, the Iranian mullahs probably would have hanged her too for fornication.

[slackmaster]

35. Naw

She probably would have been stoned to death.

[noonwitch]

38. And the men responsible would have been set free

They would have claimed that she was immodest or something.

[daleo]

39. We really need better facts, but they shouldn't have been hanged.

Even if the sex was consensual, most people in the west would say a 13 year old couldn't give legal consent anyway. But it shouldn't be a hanging offense either way - a jail sentence would be more appropriate, with the term depending on the facts of the case.

[inslee08]

40. There is one main question here...

Was it rape or not?

If the rape did take place, while I certainly would not support a public execution, the hangings of two rapists are not the biggest injustice in the world.

If, however, Outrage has it right, that the boys were forced to confess, then it is an abhorrent event.

[daleo]

41. Certainly a forced confession is abhorrent

In most jurisdictions, that would be enough to have the case thrown out. Unfortunately this standard is not universally held - even in the west it seems to be under attack (e.g. the use of waterboarding, etc. on Guantanamo detainees).

[barb162]

44. Yeah, I really agree with you here.

Umm, they have some very strict penalties there for crimes that here would get you a few years in prison, I think, or possibly up to life in prison depending on the brutality of the crime.

[HEyHEY]

46. IF they DID rape this boy at knife point

If that did happen. I have to say, even though I don't support the death penalty, I'm havnig a hard time feeling sorry for them.

[goforit]

48. OKNancy...........could this be propaganda?

[gulfcoastliberal]

49. Saudi Arabia has public executions, etc all the time

Don't they also publicly cut off hands if a poor people are caught stealing food? Seems this sort of thing is common in countries that allow Sharia law to apply to civic codes. If these kids were truly guilty, I can't feel sorry for them - even though I am firmly against the death penalty and think the state has no business killing people. After all, what if they were really innocent as suggested? I wonder if they did DNA testing?

[Kraklen]

52. There's always people advocating this kind of thing...

on these boards every time it happens in the U.S.

Where are they now?

[Doremus]

53. Gay in a country where it's a crime?

Silly boys.

They should have made a better lifestyle choice.


:sarcasm:

[Behind the Aegis]

54. Choices

I know your reply is sarcastic, but you brought up something interesting....

Sex Changes in Iran - Death Penalty for Homosexuals Sends Hundreds to a Transsexual Alternative Supported by a Khomeini Fatwa

The following are excerpts from a story about sex changes in Iran, which aired on Al-Arabiya TV on July 2, 2005.

"Changing one's sexual identity in Iran is neither forbidden by religion. Hundreds of Iranians have managed to turn their dream into reality - from a man into a woman, or vice versa. Iran, which generally arouses fears in the Western world because of its conservative –some say even extreme – Islamic values, is also a country that arouses inquisitive curiosity in general."

http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=769