Bush Administration Blocking Release of Photos and Video Of Abu Ghraib

[floda]

Bush Administration Files 11th Hour Papers Blocking the Release of Darby CD Photos and Video Of Abu Ghraib Torture


Synopsis

On July 22, the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) denounced the latest efforts of the Bush Administration to block the release of the Darby photos and videos depicting torture at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison facility. On June 2, 2004, CCR, along with the ACLU, Physicians for Human Rights, Veterans for Common Sense, and Veterans for Peace filed papers with the U.S. District Court, charging the Department of Defense and other government agencies with illegally withholding records concerning the abuse of detainees in American military custody. Since then, the organizations have been repeatedly rebuffed in their efforts to investigate what happened at the prison.



In June, the government requested and received an extension from the judge stating that they needed time in order to redact the faces of the men, women and children believed to be shown in the photographs and videos. They were given until today to produce the images, but at the eleventh hour filed a motion to oppose the release of the photos and videos, based on an entirely new argument: they are now requesting a 7(F) exemption from disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act to withhold law enforcement-related information in order to protect the physical safety of individuals. Today’s move is the latest in a series of attempts by the government to keep the images from being made public and to cover up the torture of detainees in U.S. custody around the world.

Joseph Darby was the U.S reservist who turned over the photos and videos to U.S. Army officials and touched off the Abu Ghraib scandal in April 2004.

“This is absolutely unacceptable,” stated Michael Ratner, President of the Center for Constitutional Rights. “We can not move forward from this scandal until we have a full public accounting and independent investigation into what happened at Abu Ghraib. The government cannot continue to hide evidence of torture. The time to release these photos and videos was a long time ago.”

more...

http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/reports/report.asp?ObjID=imOUU2rj8m&Content=608

[fooj]

1. Fucking cowards!

Peace.

[MidwestTransplant]

33. The looser Freepers claim it's just panites on their heads

what's the fear then?

[realms]

111. Justice

We'll have a good look at them when their in HELL.

[Rob H.]

2. Figures they'd pull this shit during the Friday-afternoon news dump

Bastards! :mad:

[blonndee]

101. Recommend it on yahoo--here's the link.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050723/ap_on_re_us/detainee_records_2

Would it do ANY good to email/call the MSMers? Olbermann? Reagan? We wanna get this out before it disappears.

[lonestarnot]

126. Don't worry It's not going to disappear! Going to freeway blog it!

Recommend you do the same!

[brooklynite]

3. Ah, to protect the privacy and dignity of the prisoners, no doubt...

[rodeodance]

6. so this extra time was for them to find a susposed legal argument!!!!

......under the Freedom of Information Act to withhold law enforcement-related information in order to protect the physical safety of individuals.

[entanglement]

93. That seems to be the official explanation

:mad:

[caledesi]

128. Oh, they are real "official" all right....criminals... nt

[catnhatnh]

4. I'm not sure about the legal gobbledegook...

...But by filing for and receiving a delay I think they may have screwed themselves....the filing for delay to redact A.admits the validity of the original filing and B. admits the jurisdiction of the court. To then use the delay to prepare an injunction filing at VERY least shows "bad faith" and may invalidate the injunction...It a stall but it may cost them...

[Nothing Without Hope]

40. Interesting. Is anything known about the judge they are facing?

Tough and fair and nonpartisan? I sure hope so. They've been working hard to corrupt the THIRD branch of government as they have the other two, but that program isn't finished yet.

[AuntiBush]

79. Nothing Seems to "Cost" these Evil SOBS anything!

[catnhatnh]

83. Really???

at one point Wayne Gacy had better press than I've seen today...I'm pretty happy...

[Dover]

5. ?HOW are they blocking this court order?! Is it a delay or a block?

[rodeodance]

7. A judge will have to now decide if the WH argument has merit. Delays

[0007]

41. Thank you rodeodance

[Karenina]

8. Prisoners get Lemon Chicken for dinner

What's to hide??? :shrug:

[rodeodance]

9. recommended

[killbotfactory]

13. and two kinds of fruit!

TWO KINDS OF FRUIT!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

27. TWO KINDS OF FRUIT!

Shoved up their respective asses. Which ain't easy, on the heels of the lemon chicken.

[hootinholler]

29. And Don't forget Noodles Jefferson!

Who was Noodles Jefferson? Thomas' little brother?

-Hoot

[CatWoman]

44. And rice pilaf

come on

RICE PILAF!!!!!!!!

Surely we can see them enjoy that marvelous, quality side.

[jayctravis]

82. And....whole wheat pita. n/t

[stevietheman]

103. and Noodles Jefferson! :) n/t

n/t

[caledesi]

129. Don't forget the rice pilaf. nt

[Robeson]

10. Thats Our Bush!.....

...Why am I not surprised?

[LifeDuringWartime]

11. sick bastards

n/t

[unrepuke]

12. Too bad Mr. Darby didn't make 20 copies

On one of the TV cop/lawyer programs the other night some AbuGhraib type photos were shown quickly. I doubt they were real prison pics, more likely some studio stuff for the show, they looked generally like the few that I've seen posted around, but I figured when these new ones were released the Gov. would just claim they were Hollywood stuff made up to smear the Bushies.

Apparently there is some meat in the new ones, they need to hide them.

[rodeodance]

14. “The public must be informed of what is being done in our name." (maybe)

Expectations are that the FOIA request will release more than 100 photos and 4 videos, all believed to document deplorable human rights violations by U.S. military personnel against Iraqi civilians.

......Barbara Olshansky, Deputy Legal Director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, stated, “The public must be informed of what is being done in our name. It is this Administration that has put our troops at risk and caused world-wide anger by fostering policies that promote torture and refusing to hold those responsible publicly accountable.”

The Center for Constitutional Rights once more calls for a complete, transparent independent investigation into the torture and abuse of detainees that goes all the way up the chain of command and demands that the Administration apply the Geneva Conventions to every detainee being held in U.S. custody around the world.

This is part of the request under the Freedom of Information Act filed by the the Center for Constitutional Rights, the ACLU, Physicians for Human Rights, Veterans for Common Sense and Veterans for Peace. The FOIA lawsuit is being handled by Lawrence Lustberg and Megan Lewis of the New Jersey-based law firm Gibbons, Del Deo, Dolan, Griffinger & Vecchione, P.C.

[Patty Diana]

59. Do you really think anyone who had pictures of these crimes

wouldn't made at least a back up copy. How many people do you know who wouldn't have made one extra copy, especially of computer data_like in case you get bad data, corruption, flawed disk etc. I'll bet the ACLU has a copy right now and is just waiting. Very few people trust their Governments at all___especially whistleblowers

[caledesi]

130. I was wondering about that too. I figured there would be some

"bandit" copies on the Web.

[WhiteTara]

71. they must be so bad that the entire lot

will be sent to the Hague. BTW Welcome to DU Unrepuke :hi: glad to see so many new people here.

[Trevelyan]

99. Has Anyone Else Had Problems with AOL "errors" booting you off Internet

while reading postings about the torture?

Link from http://www.conyersblog.us/

http://www.thismodernworld.com/weblog/mtarchives/week_2004_07_04.html#001637

Sodomizing Children. For Freedom.
by Hunter

Fri Jul 22nd, 2005 at 17:02:20 PDT

Following up on Kos' post, below; we already have some idea of what the Abu Ghraib images in question show, though we don't know precisely which ones are in the queue to be released. The images, according to those lawmakers who have seen them, paint a picture of torture at Abu Ghraib far, far worse than most Americans have yet been willing to admit. Via the Boston Herald, May 8th, 2004:


Signaling the worst revelations are yet to come, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said the additional photos show "acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman." <...>

The unreleased images show American soldiers beating one prisoner almost to death, apparently raping a female prisoner, acting inappropriately with a dead body, and taping Iraqi guards raping young boys, according to NBC News.

Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina said the scandal is "going to get worse" and warned that the most "disturbing" revelations haven't yet been made public.

"The American public needs to understand, we're talking about rape and murder here," he said. "We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience; we're talking about rape and murder and some very serious charges."

And from investigative reporter Seymour Hersh:

The women were passing messages saying "Please come and kill me, because of what's happened". Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys/children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. The worst about all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking.

Note these links are from 2004. We've known about the additional abuse cases for over a year. And yes, the rest of the world already knows.

Update <2005-7-22 20:41:35 by Hunter>: In reference to a number of posts below... To be honest, I don't even care if this effort looks partisan anymore. If being anti-child-sodomy is now considered the partisan position, then I'm going to be the biggest f---ing partisan on the planet, and to Hell with anyone who isn't.

I'm tired of all of it. Just tired. I'm tired because the rest of the world has known this for a year, and we refuse to discuss it in this country. And in truth, we can't discuss it in this country without the (heavily censored) pictures, because without the pictures, the
horrible, horrible actual pictures, the loathsome, brick-stupid f---ing news media doesn't see a story. And without the pictures, every bloated, pill-popping, corpse-like Rush Limbaugh clone in America will continue to claim it's all lies, all exaggerated, all phony.
Because, God f---ing knows, we would never even abuse even an inanimate Koran, and God help you if you report such a thing without the very pictures to see it happening before your eyes.

So here are the pictures. See it happening. So defend it, Rush. Go ahead and f---ing try.

Maybe at some point, in this country -- maybe not now, maybe only after the most partisan, dishonest sacks of crap among us find themselves rotting deep under the ground, their much-sought Rapture having wholly abandoned them -- we will again be able to find some small shared moral base, some small point of humanity on which we can all agree, before God and country, this thing was wrong.

I won't hold my breath.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/7/22/225123/485~~~stoufi

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This morning I had an "AOL Error" and was booted off the Internet while reading the Daily Kos comments on the torture.

[WhiteTara]

118. I'm not on AOL Treveylan but

I can't get the Kos story to come up. I have tried a couple of different ways, but the last attempt said "sorry, can't find that story".

The whole lot of us here are desperate for this madness to end and for the perps to be brought to justice.

Welcome to DU :hi: and keep up the good fight. I know that somehow we will win against this evil.

[orleans]

122. try this link

i copied a line, googled it, then cached it

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:x7ynEEqf7jsJ:www.dailykos.com/+%22maybe+not+now,+maybe+only+after+the+most+partisan,+dishonest+sacks+of+crap+among+us+find+themselves+rotting+deep+under+the+ground,+their+much%22&hl=en

[Tigress DEM]

131. Democrats Against Sadistic Assholes - DASA me, for sure.

Let's GET PARTISAN!

[Dr Fate]

15. Which top DEMs have our back on this one?

Which top DEMs are going to go on TV and expose the fact that these photos are being blocked?

Oh- I forgot - the "strategists" who lost the last 3 elections think that telling the truth makes us look weak.

I APOLOGIZE FOR MY OUTRAGEOUS COMMENTS.

[Jax]

16. Apology not accepted

You are spot on Dr Fate. Spot on.

:thumbsup:

[IChing]

18. I agree but the court that said it should be released

has already decided on the law of the issue. The administration is breaking the law once again.

[Dr Fate]

24. Good. Which DEMs are saying they agree with the court & their base?

Which Top DEMs agree with the court and their base and says so?

[IChing]

28. I guess we will find out with this breaking news n/t

[Massachusetts]

17. WHAT WE HAVE BECOME IN THE EYES OF THE WORLD.

[Robeson]

21. Obstructionists and Freebooters.

[leftchick]

19. I believe this will just delay the inevitable...

they will come out eventually. Hopefully during chimpys** vacation so he can't talk about clearing brush but about tortue techniques.

[Verve]

20. "Men, women and CHILDREN"????

Who the heck were they torturing?

[babsbunny]

22. A Criminal President should not be aloud to stop anything!!!

These pictures/videos need to come out now!!!

[ECH1969]

25. They are talking about a US soldier videotaping

an Iraqi soldier raping a young boy inside Abu Ghraib.

[hallc]

26. apparently...

They were raping prisoners and made their mothers watch...Sick, huh?

[Verve]

36. Wholeheartedly sick!

Instead of immediately admonishing these acts of torture and distancing himself and our troops from these acts by putting an immediate stop to them, our idiot president has instead aligned himself with the torturers by covering it up.

Between this story and the Rove incident, Shrub is definitely on the defensive. In sports, if you're on the defensive too much you end up losing!

[DoYouEverWonder]

57. That's why they killed Mazen Dana

in cold blood, outside of Abu Ghraib.




US troops 'crazy' in killing of cameraman
by Jamie Wilson, The Guardian
August 19th, 2003

Journalists who were with a Reuters news cameraman shot dead by US troops while filming outside a Baghdad prison yesterday accused the soldiers of behaving in a "crazy" and negligent fashion.

They claimed the Americans had spotted the Reuters crew outside the jail half an hour before Mazen Dana was killed and must have realised he was not a guerrilla carrying a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

The chief executive of Reuters, Tom Glocer, said: "The latest death is hard to bear. That's why I am calling upon the highest levels of the US government for a full and comprehensive investigation into this terrible tragedy."

Dana, 43, is the second Reuters cameraman to be killed since the US-led force invaded Iraq. His death brought to 17 the number of journalists or their assistants who have died in Iraq since the war began on March 20.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:lFIOAhKouRsJ:occupationwatch.org/article.php%3Fid%3D525+&hl=en&client=firefox-a

[Trevelyan]

100. Tried Your Link on Dana but got this message:

Server Error
The server encountered an error and could not complete your request.
If the problem persists, please mail [e-mail] and mention this error message and the query that caused it.


Conyers blog was down for hours yesterday, no postings from 6pm to 8pm according to post. Someone else tried for an hour.

Posts on sites re: Cheney's ordering nuclear attack on Iran disappearing according to posts on Conyers blogs.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/22/11532/9662

I could not find this page but the home page story on TPM Cafe is the legal shenanigans of Bush Regime to avoid releasing photos of torturing children.

[Judi Lynn]

107. Here's your story with a different link....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1021480,00.html

(When you get a smilie in your link, you can change it by going back and checking the box right below the message box which says:

Check if you DO NOT wish to use emotion icons in your message )

Thanks for posting the story.

[Kelvin Mace]

35. Vhldren as young as 14 where being held in Guatanamo

now they are much older, so I guess no crime was committed.

:sarcasm:

[Inland]

23. What a shocker. nt

[truthisfreedom]

30. the bushjr administration will be known as the COVERUP ADMINISTRATION

because all they ever do is CYA moves. there is no truth, no accountability, no transparency... it's a FUCKING MAFIA.

[Iowa]

31. Good!

Release these horrible images in the vicinity of roughly September 2006 after a long and bitter fight played out in the media. When added to everything else, maybe we can take back the House.

[schrodingers_cat]

32. Impeach the whole stinking lot of them!!!

These people smell so rotten, they must be dead....or the undead....it's like a wretched horror movie or some twisted nightmare! Where is my media?!?

[Kelvin Mace]

34. These photos must be REALLY, REALLY bad

for them to work so hard at suppressing them.

[Zorra]

47. Yes. We can definitely assume that "Hannibal Lechter Goes To Gitmo"

and the rest of these videos contain some of the most horrible acts of torture ever committed by "human beings" upon other human beings, given the intensity of the effort to keep them from the eyes of the world.

The question now is, will they destroy the films, or will they alter the content of the films to a PG rating before they release them?

[Carla in Ca]

58. These must be the awful ones

Rummy talked about at the hearings. He said something like there are even more horrific photos, remember? My God, they must be the worst images we will ever have seen. I am absolutely sick that this abuse happened...to kids?!
I want the photos released, and if they are, I'm not going to look at them. I want someone to tie up this administration to a big couch and make THEM look at them, make them look at the pictures of all the dead and wounded and then tell them to pack their bags and get out!:cry:

[entanglement]

94. Come on reich-wingers!

If the photos only depict 'fratboy pranks', why can't we see them???

[Judi Lynn]

108. You're right. They've only downplayed them from the first.

We've heard scores of right-wingnuts justifying them over and over. If they ARE completely justified, LET'S SEE 'EM.

If NOT, the ADMINISTRATION NEEDS TO TELL US WHY it's doing things it knows the American public wouldn't want it to do.

[Up2Late]

37. Oh Man do they SUCK!

Who are they trying to protect? The Torture Victims?

Maybe they should have thought of that BEFORE they tortured these people?:banghead: :mad:

[Catt03]

38. We need someone to pull a Pentagon Papers caper

Anyone out there who can sneak copies of pictures and film to American citizens so we can see what our president supports?

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

39. Typical Jackboot Fascist Bullshit from the Bush Coup de Etat

Legal wrangling as a method to control information flow from the citizenry...hmmmm. Tried and true methods.

JB

[Moochy]

42. ACLU press release

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=18811&c=206

Defense Department Refuses to Turn Over Abuse Photographs; Asks to File Secret Brief Justifying Refusal

July 22, 2005

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
Contact: Erica Pelletreau, 212-519-7829; 549-2666; [e-mail]

NEW YORK -- Today, July 22, was the day the government was supposed to process and redact photographs and videos relating to the abuse and torture of prisoners held abroad. Raising new arguments on the eve of its deadline, the United States government refused to release the materials to the public. The photographs and videos were to be processed for eventual release as a result of a lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union and other organizations.

"The government is raising newfound reasons for withholding records to which the public has an undeniable right," said Amrit Singh, a staff attorney with the ACLU. "Instead of releasing these records and holding officials accountable for detainee abuse, the government now seeks to shield itself from public scrutiny by filing these reasons in secret."

In a letter filed at the eleventh hour, the Department of Defense claims that photographs and videos of abuse that the court had previously ordered redacted for future release "could result in harm to individuals" for reasons that will be set forth in a memorandum and three declarations that the Government will file under seal with the U.S. District Court of the Southern District of New York.

Under the government’s proposal, the documents explaining the government’s reasons for withholding the images of abuse will not be available to the public except in redacted form, and the photographs and videos may never be made public.

The ACLU has expressed skepticism at what appears to be yet another attempt by the government to deny the public critical information about the abuse and torture of prisoners.

The photographs and videos in question were redacted by the Defense Department in response to a June 1, 2005 court order relating to a lawsuit filed under the Freedom of Information Act filed by the ACLU, the Center for Constitutional Rights, Physicians for Human Rights, Veterans for Common Sense and Veterans for Peace. The New York Civil Liberties Union is co-counsel in the case.

To date, more than 60,000 pages of government documents have been released in response to the ACLU's Freedom of Information Act lawsuit. The ACLU has been posting these documents online at www.aclu.org/torturefoia.

The FOIA lawsuit is being handled by Lawrence Lustberg and Megan Lewis of the New Jersey-based law firm Gibbons, Del Deo, Dolan, Griffinger & Vecchione, P.C. Other attorneys in the case are Singh, Jameel Jaffer, and Judy Rabinovitz of the ACLU; Arthur N. Eisenberg and Beth Haroules of the NYCLU; and Barbara Olshansky of the Center for Constitutional Rights.

[Buford Pusser]

48. Ironic Audacity

Bush seeks to cover up the evidence of torture on grounds that it "could result in harm to individuals."

What nerve.

Buford Pusser

[The Night Owl]

43. We are in very frightening territory now.

The fact that the Bush administration, by blocking the release of torture photos and videos, would risk drawing even more attention to them means that the photos and videos are probably more horrifying than expected.

How did this nation let itself get so lost?

[NYC]

76. It took a right turn.

[Pluvious]

86. We turned the corner (n/t)

*sadness*
*shame*

[saskatoon]

45. blocking the release re Abu Ghraib

If you are a Dictator you do not pay any attention to such as this.

[Burried News]

46. In the end they will have to surpress all truth to survive.

The truth is our weapons, lies are theirs.

[progressoid]

49. Again I say, "Golly gee, I'm shocked. Shocked I tell ya."

I wouldn't be surprised if this goes to the Supreme Court (like Cheney's energy task force suit). By then Roberts will be there to seal the deal.

We will need another brave soldier like Darby to get this out. This gov't will never play fair. Never.

[Mr Rabble]

50. son of a bitch

[bvar22]

51. Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin.....

They didn't want the World to see what they were doing in their secret torture cells either.

bush* is keeping good company.


According to republicans, TORTURE and ABUSE is not the problem. The problem is PICTURES of torture and abuse. Get rid of the pictures, solve the problem. GOD forbid that the actual policies are examined.....That would be too musch like admitting a mistake which is impossible for a sociopath.

OHH! and send a PR Image consultant to Iraq.

[Generator]

60. It is fascism isn't it?

Pure and simple. That's exactly what they believe-the problem isn't the truth-it's the reporting of the truth-O'Lielly was saying very much the same thing awhile ago.

Exactly the same deal with Joesph Wilson-he tells the truth-and gets payback for that-oh his wife gets payback for being married to someone who tells the truth that goes against these fascist pigs.

This country is really on it's last legs..and I feel like I'm only shouting to the choir. I wish it weren't so.

Edited for spelling:Just cause I can't spell the fascism don't mean I can't smell it.

[Burried News]

112. It is fascism and I note the ADL isn't helping us root it out.

I don't think we can expect Senator Durbin to demand the release of the pictures - nope but it is an entertaining thought.

[napi21]

52. Anybody have any idea how long the judge will take to rule?

The only "stays" I'm familiar with are stays of execution, and the ruling is within hours.

How does this stay work?

[Judi Lynn]

53. I hope the backlash on this will convince them they were really wrong.

They are showing complete contempt for the American public. They are showing us they are simply above the law, don't need to worry about it any longer.

[daleo]

54. They must be bad

This is the second delay.

[hvn_nbr_2]

55. The judge needs to give Judith Miller a roommate. Or several. n/t

[David Zephyr]

56. Dictatorship in America.

It's here.

[redacted]

61. NYT: Government Defies an Order to Release Iraq Abuse Photos

July 23, 2005
By KATE ZERNIKE

Lawyers for the Defense Department are refusing to cooperate with a federal judge's order to release secret photographs and videotapes related to the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal.

The lawyers said in a letter sent to the federal court in Manhattan late Thursday that they would file a sealed brief explaining their reasons for not turning over the material, which they were to have released by yesterday.

The photographs were some of thousands turned over by Specialist Joseph M. Darby, the whistle-blower who exposed the abuse at Abu Ghraib by giving investigators computer disks containing photographs and videos of prisoners being abused, sexually humiliated and threatened with growling dogs.

The small number of the photographs released in spring 2004 provoked international outrage at the American military.

MORE
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/23/politics/23abuse.html?pagewanted=print

[Straight Shooter]

62. Oh, I do love that headline. "Defies an order."

:popcorn:

[wiggle-room]

67. self delete

[redacted]

63. NYT: Government Defies an Order to Release Iraq Abuse Photos

This thread has been combined with another thread.

Click here to read this message in its new location.

[rodeodance]

ACLU blames gov't for Abu Ghraib delay (says violate Gen. Conv)!!

oh--the irony!!!!!

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Detainee%20Records

Friday, July 22, 2005 · Last updated 5:19 p.m. PT

ACLU blames gov't for Abu Ghraib delay

By LARRY NEUMEISTER
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

NEW YORK -- The American Civil Liberties Union accused the government Friday of putting another legal roadblock in the way of its bid to allow the public see photographs and videos stemming from the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal.

The ACLU said sealed documents the government filed Friday in U.S. District Court in Manhattan will be used to argue that dozens of photographs cannot be released because they would result in a safety threat to individuals.


The government raised its new challenge to releasing pictures and videos from Abu Ghraib prison on the same day it was supposed to show the exhibits to a judge presiding over the case, the ACLU said.



......Lane has argued that releasing pictures, even in redacted form, would violate Geneva Convention rules on prisoner treatment by subjecting detainees to additional humiliation or embarrassment.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

64. Didn't they play this card already?

Humiliation and embarrassment are the least of their worries right now.

[Raster]

65. Once again, it's not the photos of the shameful treatment of the Iraqis,

but the treatment itself that has the world up in arms. The evidence isn't the problem. It's the actions themselves. Once again, it's a responsibility thing, something this misadministration knows NOTHING about.

[Old Vet]

66. No shame to bushs game.

[gulfcoastliberal]

69. Kick - this is more important than mars

This nation now engages in torture in the name of freedom.

[wiggle-room]

68. Dictatorship starts here.

[The Night Owl]

70. Dictatorship began a while ago. This is the great unmasking.

[OfireitupO]

114. This is one of the worst administrations

In the history of the United States, even in front of Rutherfraud B Hayes.

[unhappycamper]

72. Did you really think these miserable fuckers would allow these

pictures to become public? At this point in time, we may have hope - the Judaical Branch has not been totally subverted.

[Pirate Smile]

73. NYT: Government Defies an Order to Release Iraq Abuse Photos

Lawyers for the Defense Department are refusing to cooperate with a federal judge's order to release secret photographs and videotapes related to the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal.

The lawyers said in a letter sent to the federal court in Manhattan late Thursday that they would file a sealed brief explaining their reasons for not turning over the material, which they were to have released by yesterday.

The photographs were some of thousands turned over by Specialist Joseph M. Darby, the whistle-blower who exposed the abuse at Abu Ghraib by giving investigators computer disks containing photographs and videos of prisoners being abused, sexually humiliated and threatened with growling dogs.

-snip-
The government has turned over more than 60,000 pages of documents on the treatment of detainees, some containing graphic descriptions of mistreatment. But the material that the judge ordered released - the A.C.L.U. says there are 87 photographs and 4 videos - would be the first images released in the suit. The judge said they would be the "best evidence" in the debate about the treatment of Abu Ghraib prisoners.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/23/politics/23abuse.html?

[Eloriel]

74. Yeah? And who's gonna make 'em, I wonder

Think we're a national "of laws, not men"? Just wait and see. If not on this case, one of these days it will be aundantly clear we are NO LONGER a nation of laws, not men.

[Lord_StarFyre]

75. Big Shock there

...Duh... pResident Dumbshitula has been raised, since childhood, to believe that rules don't apply to him...

And so far, no one has successfully been able to show him that he's wrong.

Hopefully Karma will soon kick in, and his afront to the Universe, that has been going on since his birth will come crashing in on him...

I wonder, would a disgraceful Impeachment, conviction in the Senate, then 15-20 in Leavenworth be just Karmic payback for him?

[daleo]

77. If Bush gets away with this... n/t

[uppityperson]

78. Showing evidence their rights were violated violates their rights?

WHAT!?!?!?!?!?

[lumpy]

80. Big mistake not to release the documents.

This makes the administration appear to be more culpable. Leaving this evidence of torture to the imagination will not help this adminstration at all. The pressure need to be put on Rumsfeld. It is amazing what they get away with; it'sgetting more like a dictatorship with every new revelation.

[jayctravis]

81. They want to protect whom?

The soldiers in Iraq?

They're already in harms way because the Administration put them there.

Perhaps they would protect people better by not violating human rights.

[catnhatnh]

84. OK let's approach this form the legal standpoint....

...of a high school drop out...Court A. rules release photos by 6-30.After court pleading, our government is granted a delay till 7-22 to release redacted photos by the same court.7-22 government applies to a DIFFERENT court for a stay...can't be the same court-that one has already ruled and by applying for the initial delay the government has accepted both ruling and jurisdiction...In short, contempt of court order-having accepted and agreeing to a court settlement 3 weeks ago you cannot appeal for a stay...WAS already settled...offer and acceptance of court proceedings

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

85. Since they've already released many photos - why ask for an exception?

I don't understand how their objection regarding the Geneva Convention would apply only to the unreleased photos and not to the many photos they've previously released. The only apparent difference is that the new set of photos show even more graphic examples of abuse. But if they're claiming that they want to protect the victims from public humiliation, isn't that what already occured in the photos of the guy on the leash on the man in the hood? I don't think the court is going to buy this.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

89. I appreciate the concern over the soldiers dying in Iraq

and I wish our soldiers didn't have to be there dying. But if the new policy is to hide all further activity against prisoners in Iraq, then ANY activity could take place without our knowledge. If the publication of these grotesque photos and videos of abuse result in greater recruitment of insurgents, then perhaps that recruitment is justified by the events in this illegal occupation. I for one am not ready to give the Bush Administration carte blanche to engage in any and all activity in the treatment of prisoners; a line must be drawn somewhere as to how much we are willing to have secreted from us. Allowing our government to hide the truth from now on will set a very bad precedent in encouraging our government to perpetrate greater and greater attrocities in our name, without our knowledge or sanction. It all boils down to a question of trust. This administration lost my trust.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

92. If the photos "don't mean a god damned thing" then why not release them?

I appreciate your candor in describing the war as one to protect Israel and to prevent theocratic Islamist domination of the western world. I wish the PNAC-dominated neoconservative-influenced Bush Administration would also have such honesty in stating the true reasons for the war. I don't agree with that notion, however. Iraq posed no threat to the western world before the invasion. Iraq had one-third the military budget of the tiny nation of Kuwait. Iraq had no air force, no navy, and aging and obsolete conventional weapons. Iraq was a secular state with a presence of Al Qaeda only in those sections of the country not under Hussein's control. There were no terrorist bombings in Iraq before the war. The occupation in fact has radicalized an entire generation of young Iraqis, whether secularists or Islamic extremists. The people killing our soldiers are probably doing so because of what has been done to them and to their families. If anything, this war has enflamed young men to take up arms who otherwise would have simply gone about their lives. The recent Iraqi elections were won by Islamic political parties who are forming close ties to Iran and they won primarily because their political platforms were the promise to end the U.S. occupation. The insurgency in Iraq is growing by the day. I fail to see how this war is stopping the spread of fundamentalist Islam. I fail to see how it is enhancing the safety of Israel. If anything, this war is playing into the hands of Osama Bin Laden, who is recruting more allies than ever, even among Iraqis who are not particularly extremist or fundamentalist in their Islamic beliefs.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

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[aint_no_life_nowhere]

96. We couldn't be further apart

First of all, Chirac was only one of the reasons for the UN's refusal to back the U.S. invasion. France was only one of several members on the Security Council opposed to a resolution for war. The Security Council rules required nine members without a veto to support the US proposal. The US at best had only four members in their corner including themselves, among the 5 permanent and 10 non-permanent members. Even if France, China, and Russia had abstained, the U.S. would not have obtained a sufficient vote. Bush in a speech to the nation promised to go back to the Security Council and put the matter to a vote, up or down, but went back on his word because he knew that it would have been a major embarrassment to him. Bush even refused to entertain the idea of setting a further time limit for inspections.

As far as the chemical weapons that were allegedly missing, Iraq was being subjected to new rounds of inspections which failed to reveal anything. In fact, Bush cut short the inspections, which might have settled the issue. Expert weapons inspectors Ritter, Kay, and Duelfer, two of them appointed by Bush himself failed to find anything. In fact, it is now generally acknowledged that the United States destroyed the chemical weapons stockpiled by Saddam. You may want to review the CIA White Paper issued in 1997 entitled "Khamisiyah: An Historical Perspective On Related Intelligence" that finally admitted the clandestine destruction of Iraqi stockpiles of chemical weapons at the giant stockpile at Khamisiyah at the end of the First Gulf War. The U.S. Senate in the mid 1990s tried to subpoena information on the full extent to which the U.S. military had secretly sent in teams of special ops to destroy Saddam's stockpiles (which we had sold to him - see the findings of the Reigle Commission's Report regarding the investigation into Gulf War Sydrome and its origins) and those efforts were impeded. We have yet to obtain the US military's cooperation in securing the complete record of our destruction of Saddam's stockpiles at the end of the First Gulf War while US troops entered Iraqi terrority. Our government didn't want us to know that Saddam no longer possessed his chemical weapons stockpiles, in my opinion.

I hate repeating myself, but Iraq had virtually no military power. It had one-third the military budget of Kuwait. It had lost control of two-thirds of its terrority. It had no air force, no navy, no effective tank corps, and aging and obsolete equipment. It was a secularist society. It was criss-crossed by no-fly zones and subject to constant aerial and satellite surveillance. We are not fighting the fascists in Iraq. Our own military has admitted that only a few hundred in Iraq are foreign fighters. The majority are either secularists, sunnis, or shiia who object to the US occupation of an Arab speaking nation. Killing them is not killing Al Qaeda to any significant extent. In fact, it's only radicalizing the entire region.

[Theduckno2]

97. aint_no_life_ nowhere, I agree with you.

The toppling of Saddam could NEVER be a legitimate reason for war in of itself.

To think that insomnia is a good reason to go to war! :sarcasm:

It's my understanding that Iran, Syria, Egypt and of course Israel have WMD stockpiles. What would stop some renegade general from letting some of those stockpiles go to terrorists? Evidently alot because George Bush says he sleeps well at night.

The saving of lives in the short term should be weighed against the long term resentment and radicalizing of the region. Just look at firestorm created by Bush's using the word "crusade" in his remarks. Talk about centuries of resentment! Release of the photos is a bitter pill to be swallowed, but like any medicine it needs to be taken for the long term health of the world.
I hope I helped your case aint_no _life_nowhere. :)

[Stand and Fight]

102. You are disgusting!

Your post oozes with corruption, madness! How can you believe any of what you are saying? You're one sick bastard. I hope that you can experience torture of the same type -- then maybe you won't be such a callous and thoughtless "thing." I dare not compliment you with the term "human," for you are anything but that -- a sociopath, a beast, a monster, but most definitely NOT human. Or perhaps the problem is that you are ALL TOO HUMAN.

By the way, shit-for-brains, the fascists are right here in America and Great Britain. The enemies are inside the hallowed walls. Your blind loyalty to them is on serving to strengthen them further.
Now go back under your bridge!

[SlavesandBulldozers]

104. kick

this is disgusting.

[Pluvious]

87. Newspeak by Our Leader...

"I live in a transparent country. I live in a country where decisions made by government are wide open."
-Bush (Feb 2005, explainifying to Putin during press conf.)
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002189767_bush25.html

[spanone]

91. It's a crime to cover up a crime......criminals

[Trevelyan]

98. CCR-NY has been great. They tried to get the German Prosecutor

with broad powers for International War Crimes to indict Rumsfeld but the German Prosecutor who accepted looking at the case refused to act. But they continue to stand up against the atrocities committed against innocent Arabs including the gang rape of children which is what the photos show.

These photos were supposed to be released the week before the 4th of july but the Pentagon or whoever was responsible for releasing them used the holiday as an excuse to delay.

They said the photos would be released on July 22 or 23 right when Rep. Conyers would be hosting the Downing Street Memos parties.

Please visit cageprisoners.com and Amnesty International who has called for the arrest of Bush and his top 5 cabinet members in whatever country they visit for War Crimes.

[jeffreyi]

105. Is it odd that they haven't already been leaked?

How did Seymour Hersch see them?

[SlavesandBulldozers]

106. kicking again

n/t

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

109. Has anyone heard mention of this anywhere in American media???

I have been listening to various news programs on cable and the networks since Friday but have seen nothing. Has anyone seen even one news outlet on television mention the government's refusal to release these photos/videos? Just one?

[blonndee]

110. I haven't either. Would it do any good to start calling and emailing? nt

[SlavesandBulldozers]

113. kicking again

kicking again

[liberaliraqvet26]

115. They can't hide it forever...

let it come out closer to the '06 elections. Maybe this has something to do with Gonzales being all over the tv today.

[sakabatou]

116. How much more do they need to hide from us?

[Barkley]

117. Hey, Where's Natlie Holloway?

That's the mindless dribble the press reports about.

[liberaliraqvet26]

124. Karl Rove is hiding her

[KBlagburn]

119. "protect the physical safety of individuals"? What about Plame?

Seems they didnt care about protecting the safety of Valerie Plame.
Now all of a sudden they care about people. Please, do they think we are that stupid?

[McCamy Taylor]

120. They cant handle any more bad pr right now.

[Stand and Fight]

121. Kick

:kick:

[architect359]

123. Just do it!

Goddamnit, just release the freaking material already. I see no reason that it is being denied to the public unless they don't want their base shaken, losing whatever support they connived to achieve.

[truthisfreedom]

125. king george rules over his dominion with an iron fist.

we need someone with a big magnet.

[BonnieJW]

127. pictures

Never fear. They will appear like magic on the Internet. Sooner or later, everything always does. There is no where to hide.