BBC: "US bases OUT" say Russia, China, & former Soviet republics

[yurbud]

This story is in the BBC today, but has been reported in the Asian press a couple of weeks ago.

Russia and China haven't acted together militarily since the Korean War, but George W. Bush is making them reconsider.

Before Iraq, Afghanistan, and even 9/11, the US set up military bases in the former Soviet republics that ring the Caspian Sea Basin oil region north of Iraq and Iran.

After seeing what we are doing in Iraq and plan to do to Iran, and the manipulation of elections in the Ukraine and attempted manipulation in Venezuela, the leaders of those republics are getting rightly suspicious that we might be fomenting the riots going on there or that they might be the next target of our military, whether or not they do what pleases the Bush administration.

If we continue to stay in defiance of their will, it could ignite a world war, which would essentially be us against everyone else, and as we learned during the Korean War, you don't want to fight with the Chinese anywhere you can walk to.

This war won't be about fighting fascism or communism, or ideas at all--just who gets to control the tap on the world's diminishing oil supply.

This one is worth contacting your congressman & senators about, as well as your local paper which is probably covering the latest runaway bride or missing sorority girl story. Those are a lot more important than a potential world war though.

Contact elected officials:
http://capwiz.com/wa/dbq/officials/

Contact media:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cu/cu.php?az=blaster

BBC NEWS

Rumsfeld in talks on US air bases

By Damian Grammaticas
BBC, Bishkek

KEY EXCERPTS:

Four Central Asian states, Russia and China have urged the US to give a timeframe for withdrawal of forces used to support operations in Afghanistan.

Mr Rumsfeld has flown to the region on an urgent mission, travelling half-way round the world at short notice.

The reason is the US is suddenly under pressure to pull out from air bases in Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan.

They said the situation in Afghanistan was now stabilising and the US should give a timetable for its withdrawal from the bases.

This change of heart appears to have been prompted by recent instability in Central Asia.

In the past few months, protests swept Kyrgyzstan's president from power and Uzbekistan's authorities put down an uprising in the city of Andijan, killing - it is claimed - hundreds of civilians.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/asia-pacific/4716563.stm

Hillbilly Hitler art:



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[stray cat]

1. Bush is a uniter - everyone unites against us.

[walkon]

4. Uniting Russia and China

That's a hell of an accomplishment!

[Supersedeas]

31. no easy task that one

[katty]

57. the Resource Wars are well underway

[lumpy]

14. Bush has tried to make 'terrorism'

the Common Enemy with other countries in the world. It hasn't worked out that way. The administration's zeal and indulgence in declaring a 'war' against terrorism to the exclusion of diplomacy and rational thinking has backfired. Raising terrorism to a state of 'war' has only created a negative reaction. Giving the terrorists a higher standard of 'war' only legitimizes their aims and increases the terrorist ranks. Now, instead of the terrorists being a small group of people determined to upset the West's applecart, it has become a situation where people take sides and proportionalty evened up. Many sides do exist, Islam vs. Christianity, poltical right vs.left, truth vs. lies. Al Queda has met their objective of creating chaos thanks to the response to their attacks by one US administration headed by a man willing to take the role of Gods's servant, spreader of democracy and freedom, savior from the 'bad' people.

[AlwaysQuestion]

45. Comic relief is.......good!!!

;)

[katty]

55. no small development here-NO ONE wants Russa ANDChina

on their ass - but bush&co and have managed to majorly screw this up along with everything else.

[meganmonkey]

2. Good.

They should kick our asses out.

We aren't helping the region, just adding to instability and tension.

I'd kick our asses out too.

[tridim]

3. If WW-III ever happens, we're screwed

Thanks to Bush's amazing ability to unite the entire world against us.

[neweurope]

6. Don't despair. The Germans will be with you. We're the

very best of friends once we smell a lost cause. Can't resist lost causes.

-----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[johannes1984]

24. count the lowlands in too ,we frigging love lost causes

we don't have nuth'n against americans , in fact we rather like you .What you hear about america hate is just cnn wanting to scare you shitless .

As for the military bases , ....they are kinda annoying when it comes to a president who sees the military as his own private sadistic utensil .But when you have a dem in the white house who knows the world is a globe , and you really don't fall of when you endeavor beneath the equator .we'll talk again .


Good luck with it all , especially getting that empire thing undone ....and remember if things get too fascist come visit europe for a change ,....where socialism is not a naughty word .

Or if it turns really bad , really fast , Canada .

[yurbud]

26. I just got my passport renewed.

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[Carla in Ca]

34. My husband and I have been talking about this

lately. We are not in panic mode, but we are thinking about getting passports, something neither of us has done before.
Do you have to have a specific destination when you get one?

[yurbud]

35. Canada, but the passport gives me more options

And I don't have enough money to go anywhere else directly.



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[Carla in Ca]

36. Sorry, my question was

if my husband and I get passports, do we have to declare a specific destination?

[mojavekid]

39. No, you do not need a destination,

It has been 9 years for me, (I need to renew soon!), but they may ask the question, an answer I believe is voluntary.

[yurbud]

43. you have to say something about your travel plans

I think I mentioned Europe within the next year, which would be nice if it happened.

Hillbilly Hitler art:



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[cliss]

60. We did the same thing, C.

I started to feel uneasy about Bush and his Gang of Gangsters. I hurried up and got my passport renewed.

In addition, I got a foreign citizenship for my kids.

I understand you can actually purchase a citizenship to Portugal, and also some South American countries. I believe American businessmen get them because they're afraid of being singled out in the event of some hijacking or other event.

We're not the world's most popular folks right now.

[silverpatronus]

62. a passport is identification

not evidence of an intent to travel, neither does it have to be. it is merely another form of ID.

[johannes1984]

66. yeah but if things really turn bad

and fast ...i mean if for example marshal law were declared after some incident , the best thing to do in a third world country .....need i say more ..... is to go to the european , preferably french,scandinavian or one of the smaller country's ambassade or consulate and claim asylum .If emergency law is declared and there's no set time or a ban on expression of speech , they'll probably take you .

If that doesn't work canada , it's fairly common and a great place to decide about it later .

for the long term , anyplace in europe 'll suffice , just apply for work permits , one year and you're in .

Seeing as this might be thinfoil hat thinking , the best solution to preparing a possible ejection from the homeland is learning how to speak a foreign language ,.....fluently .....most americans learn this pretty quick ....you'ld be amazed .

also lots of travel

......and don't watch fox news

...I just summoned and adapted some facts from the fliers they give out to people looking for assylum .

this said i'll still be vacationing in the good ole' US of A , because being a liberal makes you stick to the belief it might eventually turn out okay ....that and things aren't as bad as they seem ......as you can see i don't have the fierce sadness of fox news hanging over me

peace and the best to y'all

[olddad56]

13. If... Hello, WW3 started in Iraq, Bush is pushing WW3.

[yurbud]

16. yep

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[tridim]

21. I was thinking more of the new nuke rhetoric

coming from BushCo. I realize that we might already be in the early stages, but it's not yet a "world war" by definition. Close though.

[yurbud]

25. only the bushies would be stupid enough to go that route

everybody else would go tactical nuke at worst.

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[Tux]

42. Wrong

Fundies want a nuclear war so Jesus can return. Something in the Bible says fire will rain down so they take it as a nuclear war.

[sweetheart]

58. Its the old nazi caspian gambit

In chess terms, asia/middle east is still, and aways will be, the center
of the chessboard. It is not american territory, or neighborhood, so
the US should take the buyouts of its oil companies that are owning
those rights as a peaceful offering and butt out now before the players
deploy their more powerful pieces.

The problem is that the army is deployed, and that the US would be hard
pressed to fight any conventional war of large scale given the iraqi
syndrome, and china's bellicose approach to taiwan ties down forces that
the cost of sustaining the empire is too large... and they KNOW it.

Like america did with spain a century ago, the asian powers are issuing
the asian "monroe doctrine" and draining the colonial will of the USA
by tapping the treasury out... and as the militarism sucks the US dry,
the threat of war itself is performing what the arms buildup of the cold
war did to the soviet union... a reversal as many players are most blind
to playing their own strategies in reverse.

Bush has america checkmated in 48 moves, unless he pulls out of asia.

[ramapo]

5. It's about time

I never understood how we got away with opening those bases in the first place. Sure we paid off the individual governments but the Russians must've been mightily pissed off.

[yurbud]

8. corrupt gov'ts realized they bit off more than they could chew

it's like asking the mafia for protection then realizing the payment they want is your whole business.

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[katty]

56. Indeed, the prancingass boypuppet w/be runnin' home to

Poppy and Bar-probably before 2008

[maxrandb]

7. Silly World! All Of Your Bases Are Belong To Us. n/t

[DavidDvorkin]

9. That pesky New World Order

starts to assert itself.

Have a dose of reality, Georgie.

[Massachusetts]

10. "They said the situation in Afghanistan was now stabilising"

HUH?????!!!!!

[yurbud]

12. that's THEIR spin--the subtext is, we don't care how anything is going...

get the fuck out.

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[yurbud]

11. In a fight with rest of the world, we have tech, they have feet

We will kill a LOT of people, but they will have still more.

Even if we prevail in some sense, it would create more ill will and more enduring than the Crusades.

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[cliss]

61. The most amazing thing about the US.......

we represent only 4.8% of the world's population. And yet WE feel we have the right to jerk around the other 95%.

Just unbelievable.

[yurbud]

15. give this some nominations to keep it up

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[bspence]

17. I just saw a 60 minutes vid...

that said we were renditioning people to Uzbekistan to have them tortured. Perhaps having that story come out has put some pressure on the Uzbeks to get rid of us?

I'm not too concerned about this. This is only for us to get rid of bases used during the Afghanistan war. Why do we even need bases outside of Afghanistan if we're running that country? We should pull out.

Although, as I said, we probably keep those bases for other sinister purposes. oooh, scary... :evilgrin:

[yurbud]

19. If you read the neocon stuff, the goal is to have permanant presence

to control the spigot on the oil.

Zbiginew Brezinsky wrote about this in his Grand Chessboard book too.


These guys don't spend hundreds of billions of dollars and not expect to get a return on investment.


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[raccoon]

53. Well said! nt

[yurbud]

18. I posted this to Ann Coulter board too and got some odd replies

I swear to god, you would think these guys literally only listen to talk radio and watch Fox.

If Rush Limbaugh told them Mexicans were really cannibals from Mars, they would immediately think they always knew that.

http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=&action=m&board=37447170&tid=ucacsouterinrobertsclothing&sid=37447170&mid=4517&thr=4517&cur=4517&dir=d


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[IChing]

20. At Least Seven Hundred Foreign Bases

It's not easy to assess the size or exact value of our empire of bases. Official records on these subjects are misleading, although instructive. According to the Defense Department's annual "Base Structure Report" for fiscal year 2003, which itemizes foreign and domestic U.S. military real estate, the Pentagon currently owns or rents 702 overseas bases in about 130 countries and HAS another 6,000 bases in the United States and its territories. Pentagon bureaucrats calculate that it would require at least $113.2 billion to replace just the foreign bases -- surely far too low a figure but still larger than the gross domestic product of most countries -- and an estimated $591,519.8 million to replace all of them. The military high command deploys to our overseas bases some 253,288 uniformed personnel, plus an equal number of dependents and Department of Defense civilian officials, and employs an additional 44,446 locally hired foreigners. The Pentagon claims that these bases contain 44,870 barracks, hangars, hospitals, and other buildings, which it owns, and that it leases 4,844 more.

These numbers, although staggeringly large, do not begin to cover all the actual bases we occupy globally. The 2003 Base Status Report fails to mention, for instance, any garrisons in Kosovo -- even though it is the site of the huge Camp Bondsteel, built in 1999 and maintained ever since by Kellogg, Brown & Root. The Report similarly omits bases in Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Qatar, and Uzbekistan, although the U.S. military has established colossal base structures throughout the so-called arc of instability in the two-and-a-half years since 9/11.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115-08.htm

[arikara]

41. I could never figure out why

all those countries allowed a foreign military to set up shop in their territory.

[sintax]

22. US Military has 735 Military bases in 132 countries

with another 300-450 stations, outposts etc. scattered around the globe. And don't forget the Ships, subs, planes etc. that fly and float all around the skies and seas.

recommended

[yurbud]

23. thanks--if that's your pic, I want to marry you.

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[reprobate]

30. Anyone wunder why there's no money to educate our children?

[Burried News]

27. Looks like alot of people have concluded it's time to fight Bush

here and abroad. Maybe Newton was wrong .. maybe the reaction will be stronger than the action? Personally I don't want to find out because the only way China or Russia can project power is with missiles.

[Burried News]

28. Well maybe Superwoman can pay a call on them and turn them

around on this. Once she lines up the Coalition of the Bribed for renewed adventures I am sure Putin will change his mind.
Humm looks like a handmaiden of Zod in this one.

[geek tragedy]

29. They said that Afghanistan is stabilizing?

Wow, proof that China and Russia are governed by liars just like we are.

[Roland99]

32. A little timeline of Kyrgyzstan/Uzbekistan articles

Rumsfeld Baku visit leaves questions behind
http://www.bakutoday.net/view.php?d=13143

In a display of the Caspian region’s strategic importance to America, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld took time out from a fast moving tour of America’s war zones in Iraq and Afghanistan, to pay a third visit to Azerbaijan Tuesday night, his first arrival in a year.

According to local reports, during his roughly three-hour visit Rumsfeld met with his Azerbaijani counterpart Defense Minister Safar Abiyev and addressed Azeri peacekeepers in Iraq and the current pace of settlement talks regarding the Karabakh conflict.

While brief, the trip generated huge interest among Azerbaijani media, with some reports calling the visit “shrouded in secrecy.” Local analysts blamed the suspicion on recent international speculation that the United States seeks to establish a major military presence in Azerbaijan. The so-called Caspian Guard will reportedly be headquartered in Baku and comprised of American troops trained for rapid response missions for regional crises. The guard is part of Rumsfeld’s overall strategy to re-craft America’s overseas military units from bulky Cold War bases to more deployable units flexible enough to put together different force packages for different operations. While specific information on the unit is hard to obtain, a recent report in the Wall Street Journal quoted Chief of U.S. European Command, General James Jones addressing the U.S. Congress about the guard. Jones said the U.S. plans to allocate some $100 million to cover the guard’s first 10 years of activities.

The guard will reportedly be one of the U.S. European Command’s 10 posts, with the Caspian region included in its area of responsibility. The command center will boast the most up-to-date radar equipment and also focus on dealing with potential terror attacks on the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) oil pipeline.

(Other articles:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2005/210405militarybases.htm
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/conspiracy_theory/fullstory.asp?id=217
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L1478278.htm
http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/a-list/2004w11/msg00091.htm
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MEN307A.html )


General fired for saying Romania to host U.S. bases
http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=5826287&cKey=1117366528000

A senior Romanian general has been removed from his job after telling the press Romania would provide U.S. forces with bases near the Black Sea, the Defense Ministry said on Sunday.

General Valeriu Nicut, head of the strategic planning division for the Romanian general staff, said on Wednesday after an international military conference on security issues that the U.S. would set up two military bases in Romania within one year.

"General Nicut is not the head of the strategic planning division any more, his situation is being assessed and he will be given another job within the army," Defense Ministry spokesman Cristinel Ghiga said.

"During Wednesday's press conference, General Nicut had no mandate to speak to the press on the issue of bases," he added. "There is no accord on this issue with the American state."

There's Democracy, and There's an Oil Pipeline
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/29/weekinreview/29sanger.html?

WASHINGTON — Samuel Bodman, the new secretary of energy, led the United States delegation to Azerbaijan last week to celebrate a huge moment in America's effort to diversify its sources of oil: The opening of a pipeline that will carry Caspian oil to the West, on a route that avoids Russia and Iran.

Mr. Bodman delivered a message from President Bush: "As Azerbaijan deepens its democratic and market economic reforms, this pipeline can help generate balanced economic growth, and provide a foundation for a prosperous and just society that advances the cause of freedom."

Just a few days earlier, the Azerbaijani police beat pro-democracy demonstrators with truncheons when opposition parties, yelling "free elections," defied the government's ban on protests against President Ilham Aliyev. Mr. Aliyev is one of President Bush's allies in the war on terror, even though he won a highly suspect election to succeed his father, a former Soviet strongman.

<...>

"Look, I was part of the incubation of this policy," said Richard N. Haass, who was head of policy planning in the State Department from 2001 to 2003, referring to the decision to make democracy a major theme of the Bush presidency. "But I don't think you can make it the controlling issue. The administration has set itself up for inconsistency." In fact, Mr. Bush has started to talk about the need for patience as Americans wait for democracy to take hold elsewhere. His wife, Laura, took up the theme this month on a trip to the Middle East. Asked about the difficulties of mounting any real challenge to President Mubarak in Egypt, she said, "To act like you can just go from here to there overnight is naïve." Full democracy, she said, is "not easy and we know that it's, in many cases, not even possible."

Uzbekistan Mulls Future of U.S Air Base
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050707/ap_on_re_eu/uzbekistan_us_2

The Foreign Ministry said in a statement the air base at Karshi-Khanabad, which U.S. forces use to support operations in neighboring Afghanistan, had been only intended for combat operations in Afghanistan during the overthrow of the Taliban regime after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

"Any other prospects for a U.S military presence in Uzbekistan were not considered by the Uzbek side," it said.

Uzbekistan also said the United States had not paid for making flights from the air base and had offered virtually no compensation for additional costs incurred by the Uzbek authorities for guarding the base and creating new infrastructure.

"In the view of the Foreign Ministry of Uzbekistan, these considerations should be central to examining the prospects of the future presence of the U.S military force at the Khanabad air base," the statement concluded.

Kyrgyz President Questions Presence Of U.S. Base
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/07/160461b7-bb64-4031-ba65-171a5362b36a.html

11 July 2005 (RFE/RL) -- Kyrgyzstan's newly elected President Kurmanbek Bakiev today questioned the continued presence of U.S. troops on a military base they have used since late 2001.

At his first news conference since yesterday's elections, Bakiev said the necessity of the U.S. base in his country should be discussed now that the situation in Afghanistan has stabilized.

The comment echoed a call by the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, which last week said Washington should set a date for the withdrawal of its bases in Central Asia.

The SCO groups four Central Asian republics with Russia and China.

Rumsfeld Seeks Deal on Bases in Kyrgyzstan
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/25/international/asia/25cnd-rumsfeld.html?

BISHKEK, Kyrgyzstan, July 25 - Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld arrived in this Central Asian nation today to shore up an unsettled military basing arrangement here that has been critical to operations in Afghanistan. The refueling and cargo mission operated by the American military from Manas Air Base, just outside the Kyrgyz capital, has been essential to ferry aid, troops and equipment to and from Afghanistan. About 1,000 American troops operate from the airfield, the base for a dozen KC-135 refueling jets and C-130 cargo planes.

But this agreement appeared to be cast in jeopardy earlier this month when Kyrgyzstan and three other Central Asian states joined Russia and China in calling for the United States to set a deadline for withdrawing from the base here and another in neighboring Uzbekistan.

Mr. Rumsfeld told reporters traveling with him en route here from Washington that the status of the bases was a matter of negotiations with the host countries, not the regional alliance, which is known as the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and is dominated by Russia and China.

<...>

Ten days ago, Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was even blunter in his assessment of the alliance's demand: "It looks to me like two very large countries were trying to bully some smaller countries."

[donkeyotay]

52. The word "democracy" is becoming meaningless

Mr. Bodman delivered a message from President Bush: "As Azerbaijan deepens its democratic and market economic reforms, this pipeline can help generate balanced economic growth, and provide a foundation for a prosperous and just society that advances the cause of freedom."

Just a few days earlier, the Azerbaijani police beat pro-democracy demonstrators with truncheons when opposition parties, yelling "free elections," defied the government's ban on protests against President Ilham Aliyev.

Similar to this administration complaining about the loyal opposition "playing politics," (while the GOP just delivers messages from god?) Democracy is becoming a code word, synonymous with the administration getting its way and enriching the BFEE.

[Roland99]

54. What? You don't think spreading capitalism == democracy?

[donkeyotay]

59. "capitalism" is still too benign a word for this

Maybe crony-capitalism, but I think of it more as gangsterism. All governments will be strongman governments, and they will compete with each other throughout the world like glorified gangs or crime families. All the peoples of the world will just be ground up like so much grist.

Wow. I'm cheering myself up! Think I'll just go hang myself now. Have a nice day, Roland, and thanks for your research!

:hi:

[Roland99]

63. Be sure to use a strong rope.

;)

[donkeyotay]

64. Thanks for your concern

But it didn't work. I didn't take your advice. I used a wimpy rope. I'm a democrat!
:dunce:

[Roland99]

65. You girlie man!

[Greyhound]

33. 9 out of 10 countries agree,* is a dangerous and an un-stabilizing force..

in the region. An imminent threat, that must be neutralized. :nuke:

[JohnyCanuck]

37. The rest of the world might be wising up to the real US agenda.

The Bush Dilemma -- The Iraq Gamble Simply Cannot Fail
by Stan Moore
(Tuesday July 26 2005)

<snip>

From the Bush Administration point of view, as well as that of the "establishment" that includes high level Democrats as well as Republicans, the invasion and occupation of Iraq is a strategic maneuver. It is designed to secure access to oil, not only in Iraq, but also as a lynchpin in a strategy of control of the entire Persian Gulf. It is a lynchpin in a strategy that wants to contain, if not envelope Iran and its oil wealth. The establishment of military bases around the region, after an assumed victory in Iraq, is key to expansion of military access to neighboring Central Asia and the Caspian Sea. This is part of a larger strategy to weaken China and provide leverage against both China and Russia.

<snip>

Not only the Bushites and the Neo-Cons, but also the John Kerry of the world have this strategic view. John Kerry, John McCain, John Warner, and even John Q. Public have been convinced that America's destiny is to rule the world, and it all begins in Iraq, right or wrong. Yes, few in the government worry about right or wrong anymore. What a matter is that might make right, and might is associated with power, and oil power society, and we gotta have control of that oil!

Do not expect the Bush Administration, or any Democratic administration that replaces it to pull out of Iraq. To do so in the face of Peak Oil would be to pull the plug from America's economy, which would be like removing the drain plug from the oil pan of your favorite SUV and driving it until the motor blows.

Iraq was a strategic move. It was a desperate move, but the explanations were designed to hide the REAL desperate explanation of the move, and create a false, desperate explanation. America was facing a desperate situation, but it was not about weapons of mass destruction or about the need for democracy in Iraq. It was about the passage over a mountain peak, the Hubbert Peak. It was about the risk of not having control on the way down the other side of that peak. It was about whether America would free-fall to disaster, or keeps the economy's engine going down the slope, while the rest of the world came to us for their oil.

http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/17118

[1932]

38. This war won't be about fascisms? Oh really? If US fights war for oil...

...then it would be a war about fascism.

And why the hell does this article jump so easily toward the idea of an inevitable war.

I'm not sure that I really appreciate the media normalizing war like that.

[yurbud]

48. I was being charitable--and people here and elsewhere tune out the F word

which I think is the most accurate description of the current administration nonetheless.


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[ElsewheresDaughter]

40. all wars have always been about resources....read Michael Klare's....

Resource Wars

[yurbud]

44. I've liked his articles, so I'll look for the book, thanks.

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[depakid]

46. It's in the world's best interest to drive the US back

In some respects, it's also in our long term interest, too.

Let's face it- America is a rogue nation that has ZERO integrity. Americans in general are an ignorant, ethnocentric and exceptionally wasteful people who could care less about anyone else in the world- and a majority are sure to back using their military to fight over the world's dwindling energy resources.

Strategists in China, Russia and even Europe should be thinking long and hard about how to isolate the US- becuase the way it looks, Republicans and Neocons will very likely run this country for the next decade at least- and these aren't rational people- nor when push comes to shove, will they honor any agreements they make.

[Deja Q]

51. If other companies flock to Microsoft to be partners despite MS's past,

why would it be different in neocon(tm) america?

And MS's past is full of deception and dishonor too.

[anotherdrew]

67. you got all that right on the money

[ngGale]

47. Except for Canada and Mexico, the US could be ...

isolated from the rest of the world. China, Russia - Cuba becomes our watch dog. So much for our great foreign policy!

[Deja Q]

49. It is but a matter of time. Like I've said,

we are ALL beyond recrimination. The population is too high and the resources about to become economically (as we've made them to be) worthless. Enjoy life while you can and don't let impending reality bother you. It's going to happen and there is NOTHING we can do.

[Deja Q]

50. But China is our friend! Look at all the jobs we give them!!!

How did we know those communists would turn out to be evil after all?