Baptists deem flock guilty by association

[auburngrad82]

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/2654009p-9090752c.html

--Snip--

This month, the church begins withholding the money it contributes to the state convention in protest after the pastor of the church and a lay leader were denied positions as trustees at two of the convention's institutions.

Greenwood Forest has fallen into disfavor with the convention because it contributes money to a liberal Baptist group that supports same-sex marriage.

The church at Kildaire Farm and Southeast Maynard roads has never taken a position on same-sex marriage. In fact, the church has never studied the topic of homosexuality. But the congregation's willingness to partner with the Alliance of Baptists, a group of 130 churches that works on poverty and justice issues, has rankled some within the state convention.

--End Snip--

My note: it seems that the Baptists are turning into the American version of the Taliban. First a Baptist church in NC kicks out all of it's Democratic members. Then a Baptist church in NC puts up the now-infamous "flush the quran" sign. Then we have Fred Phelps and his congregation of hate-mongers. Now, this story of Baptist hate.

I was born and raised Southern Baptist. I am rapidly becoming ashamed of that fact.

[bushisanidiot]

1. "A liberal baptist group"???? talk about an oxymoron

n/t

[kevsand]

4. Not really.

There are lots of liberal Baptists. I grew up in a moderate to liberal Baptist church. In recent years, it severed all ties with the Southern Baptist Convention, because of that body's takeover by right-wing extremists.

It really is only the Southern Baptist Convention that is such nut jobs. Slandering all other Baptists because the SBC is so out to lunch is very shortsighted. You might as well say that "liberal Catholics" or "liberal Jews" is also an oxymoron.

[Don Claybrook]

5. I know that must seem surprising to you

But it's instructive to keep in mind that the right wing started taking over the Southern Baptists in the early 80's. There have always been S. Baptists working for peace and justice, though there are fewer every year.

Most have jumped ship. I personally believe that the name Baptist is now poison, and that any progressives left should seriously consider abandoning the denomination and joining/starting something else.

[auburngrad82]

6. You do realize that many Baptist churches were behind the civil rights

women's rights, and child labor movements, don't you? And wasn't Dr King a Baptist?

[AuntieM1957]

8. Oh, really?

someone told me that the Southern Baptist denomination was founded by a group of anti-reconstruction southerners who were trying to ensure that the freed slaves stayed out of "white" churches.

I don't have good sources to support that.

But I do recall that my childhood church (S.B.) had a "missionary" branch - where we visited and brought old clothes to give the less fortunate "colored" people.

I certainly do not recall anyone in a Southern Baptist church at any time promoting women's rights or civil rights.

Sorry, but that seems out of character for them based on my personal experience. If you have specific sources, I'd love to hear them. It would improve my perspective on the church of my childhood.

[auburngrad82]

11. Dr King's church was Ebeneezer Baptist Church in Atlanta

As far as Southern Baptist, the reason I quit going to church in the 70s was because of the hate that the minister preached almost weekly about Jews and Catholics. The congregation was pretty integrated for that time in the south so color didn't play much of a role for them.

As for documentation about the role that ALL denominations (including Baptists) played in Civil Rights, Women's Rights, Child Labor, etc, it's simple. Pick up a book about the movements. It's pretty well documented.

Remember, Jimmy Carter was a member of the Southern Baptist Church until just a few years ago. He said he felt the church had moved away from it's roots to a view that was too extremist for him.

[TankLV]

14. You are correct in your interpretation of the founding of the SOUTHERN

Baptist convention.

They broke away from the main "Baptist" church because of their strong support of equality and civil rights.

The "southern" baptists were originally openly racist - that is their whole reason for existence.

Southern Baptists are not in any way shape or form similar to the "Baptists".

The Baptist churches were also at the forefront of the orignial anti-slavery movement during the 1800's.

My how "far" they've come, haven't they?!

[Kraklen]

18. "originally" implies they've changed.

Just recently they were sued because they were forcing black employees to come and go out the back door.

I don't know how that case turned out.

[brentspeak]

15. The Southern Baptist Church is not the same as independent

Baptist churches, which usually have nothing to do with the Southern Baptist denomination and are almost like "Mom & Pop" local churches.

Some independent Baptist churches are relatively liberal, and they, along with the conservative independent Baptist churches, have traditionally been opposed to racial discrimination and, before then, slavery.

However, virtually all independent Baptist churches are strictly fundamentalist, demanding parishioners to take the Bible literally. I'm very surprised to learn that a Baptist church is supporting pro same-sex issues.

[tblue37]

10. Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter

are liberal Baptists.

[mmonk]

2. Don't feel too bad,

I was raised Catholic and they have taken a rightward turn as well.

[atommom]

3. As nutso as some Baptist churches have become, I don't think

Phelps' church really belongs in the Baptist category. Like his declaration that he's a Democrat, it seems to just be an arbitrary choice he made years ago, a choice that has been making other Baptists and Dems uncomfortable ever since. :shrug: He really should have just created his own creepy little category...

[AuntieM1957]

7. Baptists aren't what they used to be

I, too, was raised as a Southern Baptist.

perhaps the church my parents attended was unusual in it's tolerance and devotion to what I consider "Christian" teaching.

When we moved to another city, we were unable to find another Southern Baptist church that felt like "home". All too far to the hellfire and damnation, everyone else is wrong and we're right spectrum that prevails today.

The positive thing is that I really know the Bible and understand what Jesus taught. So when this new crop of Southern Baptists try to brand me "non-Christian", they look really foolish.

The last time I attended a Southern Baptist service, the sermon was on women submitting to their husbands as part of "Christ's law". I got up and left the church.

[Az_lefty]

13. ha ha ha...

yea, my wife loves that sermon too. :sarcasm:

[eallen]

9. The SBC was created in 1845, because liberal Baptists in the north...

Liberal congregations in the north had been preaching against slavery. Or at least, they hadn't been preaching that slavery was a legitimate institution sanctioned in both the Old and New Testament. Southern congregations were more fundamentalist, and they could not abide this liberal deviation from the plain scripture, which they held as the Literal and Inerrant Word of God. So in 1845, they split from the Triennial Convention to form the Southern Baptist Convention.

Well, that was a long time ago, and the SBC since has changed its views on slavery. I'm not quite sure how, since the Bible does sanction it, and their exegetical theories remain unchanged. But in any case, they have, and that's a good thing. Still, given their origin, nothing the Southern Baptists do can quite surprise me.

:hippie:

[Barrett808]

16. "exegetical" theories

Cool word.

[Alpharetta]

12. Baptist groups which spoke out against the Iraq invasion

* Alliance of Baptists
* American Baptist Churches in the USA
* National Baptist Convention of America
* National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.
* National Missionary Baptist Convention of America



SpeakOutDraft.html

A Call to Speak Out.
July 4, 2005

This year our nation is at war as we observe the 4th of July, a day that honors those founders who spoke out for independence from tyranny. Today in Iraq a cruel dictator has been deposed, yet the suffering of the Iraqi people continues. Mandated elections have been held, yet the future of Iraq remains as uncertain as ever. Day by day the cost of this war for the United States, for Iraq, for peace grows clearer. No weapons of mass destruction have been found; no link to the attacks on September 11, 2001 has been shown. It has become clear that the rationale for invasion was at best a tragic mistake, at worst a clever deception.

As people of faith, we believe in the transcendent sovereignty and love of God for creation, and that the responsibility of human beings is thus to pursue justice and peace for all. We also believe that, as the biblical prophets of old, who in faithfulness to God spoke out to a people and a nation they loved, in humility before God we too are to speak to a land and people we love. As religious leaders we invite others who share our affections and dismay to recognize the time has come to speak out.

More at link

[depakid]

17. Certain Southern Babtist groups ARE the American Taliban

and always have been. This isn't a new phenomena- the only thing that's different is they now have the political power to oppress the rest of the people in America.