NYT: Officials See Risk in the Release of Images of Iraq Prisoner Abuse

[DeepModem Mom]

Officials See Risk in the Release of Images of Iraq Prisoner Abuse
By JULIA PRESTON
Published: August 12, 2005


Senior Pentagon officials have opposed the release of photographs and videotapes of the abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, arguing that they would incite public opinion in the Muslim world and put the lives of American soldiers and officials at risk, according to documents unsealed in federal court in New York.

Gen. Richard B. Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in a statement put forth to support the Pentagon's case that he believed that "riots, violence and attacks by insurgents will result" if the images were released.

The papers were filed in Federal District Court in Manhattan in an ongoing lawsuit by the American Civil Liberties Union to obtain under the Freedom of Information Act the release of 87 photos and four videotapes taken at Abu Ghraib. The photos were among those turned over to Army investigators last year by Specialist Joseph M. Darby, a reservist who was posted at Abu Ghraib.

The documents reveal both the high level and the determination of the Pentagon officials engaged in the effort to block disclosure of the images, and their alarm at the prospect that the photos might become public....

***

"I condemn in the strongest terms the misconduct and abuse depicted in these images," General Myers said in the statement. "It was illegal, immoral and contrary to American values and character."...


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/12/politics/12photos.html

[Quakerfriend]

1. There are more than 87 photos.

I believe that the actual # is 140.

Sadly, I think that the release of these photos is the only thing that will convince the sheeples that this admin has got to go.

[tanyev]

2. Conveniently ignoring the fact that the actions documented in the

photos and videos have already put the lives of American soldiers at much more risk in Iraq.

[TahitiNut]

65. See ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4356795

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

3. "Illegal, immoral, and contray..." All the more reason

the US public HAS to see them!
Fucking idiot, zoomie Myers.

[msongs]

4. afraid of TRUTH..how bushco..as if the war does NOT put lives at risk nt

[rodeodance]

6. "It was illegal"----does he realize what he just said?

......"I condemn in the strongest terms the misconduct and abuse depicted in these images," General Myers said in the statement. "It was illegal, immoral and contrary to American values and character."...

[glitch]

31. Initiated by his fearless leader.

He's been a bushco minion from the getgo, he's just upset at having been caught. They are all perverts.

[Fire Walk With Me]

57. Ha! True. But, can't tell that from the tiny sentences for the accused.

"Illegal" gets to be a talking point...good catch!

[Larkspur]

5. The Muslim world already knows about this atrocity. It's the US public

opinion that they are really worried about, not Muslim opinion.

[htuttle]

9. True

And at the same time the Bush admin's overt 'right hand' worries about the impact of these terrible photos, the Bush administration's covert 'left hand' on talk radio and cable rants and raves that these photos don't exist.

[K-W]

13. Exactly, the danger is the US public learning the truth. EOM

[Frances]

15. I agree

I don't think it's possible for the Muslim world to get any more angry than they already are.

It's the people in the U.S. who have forgotten about the first set of photos. Releasing a new set would underscore how the Bush administration has failed in Iraq. And it would undermine Bush's current justification of the war in Iraq, which is that we are bringing democracy to the Middle East.

[K-W]

16. Plus accounts of what is in these photos have already been published.

Most Americans havent heard them, but the foriegn press isnt ignoring it.

Not to mention that the people who were tortured are muslims, some of whom have bee released. The victims themselves and other prisoners have already told the mulims world first hand about many of these things.

[atreides1]

34. It's more then that

It's the entire world learning the truth.

If you think about it, if these photos and videos are released, how do you think the world will react the next time the U.S. makes some
big deal about the violation of human rights, or how the North Korean
government is starving it's people.

Does anyone really think that the rest of the world will believe in the sincerity of the U.S. official position?

The Islamic world already suspects that torture of women and children took place at Abu Ghraib, what the U.S. government is afraid
of is the rest of the world finding out.

Even Blair, will be forced to reconsider his total support of Bush, or he and the UK will be considered to be a part of the atrocities
committed by Americans at Abu Ghraib.

Bush could kill a child on national TV, and those that support him would give every excuse they could think of to justify what he did,
so only those who don't support Bush completely, those fence sitters that we all know, would be affected by the release of these documents.

[The Night Owl]

38. In other words, the Abu Ghraib images could bring down the house of cards.

That is why the Pentagon won't release the torture images. It knows that the Bush administration will be finished.

[Talismom]

20. That's exactly what I said in a thread yesterday!

All the "homeland security" measure they've put into effect have done little to make us safer. They have served to cut back our civil liberties, privacy and freedom from their control. They have made it easier to "dissappear" us when we inconvenience them or impoverish us for their own financial benefits. Classic fascism and "state sponsored terrorism"--what Chompsky has said is the original meaning of the word terrorism!

[DBoon]

7. Peek-A-Boo!

If you don't see it - it doesn't exist!

[Jacobin]

8. Nonsense. Rush says they are merely fraternity pranks

E-mail Rush and encourage him to lobby the junta to release the photos of the fraternity pranks so that muslims can see we were just playing!

[Frances]

19. Good point

If they are just pranks, publish the photos to prove it.

Last Christmas I was standing in line at the Post Office waiting to mail a package. The man in front of me said, "I don't know why they're complaining about somebody putting a pair of panties on a man's head."

I'd love for him to have to see more photos and come up with more inexcusable excuses.

[donkeyotay]

40. A few bad apples blowing off some steam doing fraternity pranks

Or yet another cover up, another corpovision blowjob. It was the admin's policy: Gonzales wrote how the president could torture terrorists. It was the koolaid-drinking American people who were told this was no big deal. Since it was no big deal, let's see the photos.

I agree that the rest of the world already knows how far America has fallen. It's the American people who need to see the truth.

[librechik]

10. "afraid that the photos might become public"

might



MIGHT




MIGHT???????!!!!!!!!!



WTF??????

[alkaline9]

11. nothing to see here, move along...

Just ignore it and it'll go away! After all, if the "Muslim world" doesn't actually SEE the photos, then it never happened, right?

Not like we're already putting American soldiers at risk by invading a country that we have no business in. As if the entire world (except maybe Tony Blair) doesn't already hate America .... but Mr. Bush, it's not for "our freedoms" ... you f*cktard, it's because we are the bully of the world who just wants to steal everyone else's lunch money.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!! PLEASE WAKE UP!

[Beetwasher]

12. Officials See Risk...TO THEMSELVES

Douchebags.

[Mizmoon]

22. BINGO

War crimes ... they're tough to live with.

[meganmonkey]

14. It's not the PICTURES putting troops at risk

you motherfuckers :grr: :mad: :grr:

IT'S THE TORTURE, STUPID!!!!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

49. Exactly...

They've committed atrocities, yet they're pissed because they expect to be able to get away with it!

[DS1]

17. I am reminded of Superman II

GUILTY!
GUILTY!
GUILTY!
GUILTY!
GUILTY!

[The Night Owl]

39. I thought that was an Ariel Sharon line. (NT)

[Gregorian]

18. Your legacy is already garbage. Release them or not, we know.

This is another of twenty facets of corruption.

Release them or not, you're screwed Bush.

As an American, I need to apologize for busting into homes and yanking innocent Iraqis out of bed and imprisoning them. I'm sorry for my country's actions. Actions that HAD to be approved by president Cheney.

[tk2kewl]

21. The photos are not what causes a risk

it is the behavior depicted therein

[The Night Owl]

23. I thought the goal was to have the terrorists bring it on.

Didn't The Chimp challenge the terrorists to bring it on? Why, yes, he did. So, why is the Pentagon suddenly apprehensive about something which, according to them, might fulfill The Chimp's wish? Is the Pentagon in disagreement with the President's strategy for Iraq?

Myers knows that not releasing the torture images will only cause Muslims and Arabs to imagine the worst. The only reason Myers doesn't want the torture images released is because he knows they damage his beloved bosses.

[Fly by night]

24. Real concern: "they would incite public opinion in the American world..."

"... and put the necks of American officials at risk...."

[Miss Chybil]

28. Exactly, the "Muslim world's" opinion has already been incited.

And doesn't that statement do enough to incite? "Uh, yeah, uh well, we don't want you guys to see these because they'll REALLY piss you off," the General said.

"Uh, ok...?" the Muslim World said.

Right.

[TankLV]

47. Well, I for one, see this one reason as why I WANT the photos released.

I want to incite public opinion against these REPUKE criminals in Amerikkka - I want to not only put these REPUKE American officials at risk - I want the GONE - imprisoned and punished with the MAXIMUM penalty that THEY want for others done to THEM!

[daleo]

25. Aren't U.S. soldiers already at risk?

There are a couple of wars going on already. I think it is the Bush administration that is at risk if the photos come out.

[CantGetFooledAgain]

26. I just don't understand how...

...whether the photos are released or not, they are not being used as evidence in the prosecution of serious crimes! I mean, are they blaming Lyndie England for these too? Isn't this a different group of thugs that is responsible for what is depicted in the latest photos/videos?

So where are these people? Where is their chain of command? Who is being held to account for these crimes? Are they under the impression that they don't need to prosecute if the evidence is not made public?

[Gregorian]

30. Right on! This wasn't Lyndie England.

I need to use logic more often. Your post inspires me. And so does your great username. Eggshellent!

[Burried News]

27. If you feel that strongly about it resign Meyers. It happened on

your watch. Whatever happened to "No excuse, sir".

[VegasWolf]

29. Meyers doesn't want the world to think of Americans as sick perverts! nt

[antonialee839]

32. I don't think the rape and torture of young children

will sit too well with the American public. I've heard Randi Rhodes bring this up on her show and the fruit-loops who call in
refuse to believe it without proof. Well if the proof comes in the form of a video it's going to get pretty ugly for the Bush Crime Family. Look what happens to predators of children in prison. Even hardened criminals can't abide child rapists.

[phylny]

33. I have to profess ignorance here.

I did hear Randi say this, and have heard others say it as well, but I don't know HOW they (we) know about this. Can you enlighten me? Thanks.

I'll also add that if it's true, and if there's proof, I want EVERYONE in the WORLD to see what Americans paid for by MY money have done. And I then want them prosecuted. It's disgusting.

[The Night Owl]

37. It isn't enough to prosecute the people who committed the torture.

We have to prosecute both the people who committed the torture and the people who created an environment in which such torture could take place.

[DeepModem Mom]

41. I thought Seymour Hersh addressed this -- I pulled this up from Google --

from Daily Kos:
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:cw0xKzmKffwJ:www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/14/193750/666+seymour+hersh+abu+ghraib+children&hl=en

From a Hersh speech:

Some of the worse that happened that you don't know about, ok. Videos, there are women there. Some of you may have read they were passing letters, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib which is 30 miles from Baghdad...
The women were passing messages saying "Please come and kill me, because of what's happened". Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys/children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. The worst about all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror it's going to come out.

It's impossible to say to yourself how do we get there? who are we? Who are these people that sent us there?

[dalaigh lllama]

43. Read "Chain of Command" by Seymour Hersh for torture info

pp. 43-44

according to U.S. military officials, the unreleased photographs showed American soldiers "severely beating an Iraqi prisoner nearly to death, having sex with a female Iraqi prisoner, and 'acting inappropriately with a dead body.' The officials said there was also a videotape, apparently shot by U.S. personnel, showing Iraqi guards raping young boys."

Seymour Hersh says he saw more than fifty of these photos himself. One of the witness statements describes the rape of a boy by a foreign contract employee while a woman took pictures. The witness further stated that "the kid was making a lot of noise."

... there's more in there if you want to pursue it.

[Zorra]

35. My God, what have these fascist monsters done to our country?

We must leave Iraq immediately and remove these monstrous fascists from power at all cost. They are a blight and a shame upon all of us.

Americans committing war atrocities so unspeakably evil that the photos of these acts are not fit for public viewing.:puke:

[The Night Owl]

36. Not releasing torture images will stir up as much rage as releasing them.

If America is going to take her lumps for the Abu Ghraib prison torture images, she might as well do so as an open society. But of course, Bush and company are not comfortable with America being an open society.

[DeepModem Mom]

42. Please see post 41: Is Myers talking about child-rape Hersh reported?

There's an excerpt from a Hersh speech, from Daily Kos, in post 41.

On edit: also see DVJNU's post 43, re. info in Hersh's book.

[ECH1969]

44. Myers: Release of Abu Ghraib prison photos could cause riots

NEW YORK The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff warns that releasing photos and videotapes of detainee abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison could have serious consequences.

General Richard Myers contends in recently unsealed court documents that the release of such information would aid al-Qaida recruitment, weaken governments in Iraq and Afghanistan and incite riots against U-S troops.

The American Civil Liberties Union wants 87 photographs and four videotapes taken at the prison released as part of a lawsuit it filed in 2003.

The group is seeking information on the treatment of detainees in U-S custody and about the transfer of prisoners to countries known to use torture.

http://www.kcautv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3717340

[TroglodyteScholar]

45. ...and incite riots against U-S troops....

...in the streets of the USA.....

[TankLV]

46. They condemn them, but not enough to stop the use or nazi techniques

for torturing and otherwise mistreating prisoners.

They are afraid that the photos will turn the whole world against them.

DUHH! That's the whole point why we want them released - to show the entire world, once and for all, the type of criminals controlling our government now - the REPUKE criminals!

And as usual their excuses are bullshit.

It's not the PHOTOS that will incite the world - it's what those photos will PROVE once and for all, what these repuke criminals are doing in our name over there! And then maybe they will not be able to continue this any longer!

II'S NOT THE PHOTOS, YOU STUPID SHITS - IT'S WHAT THEY PROVE!

I hope they cause so many "riots" here that we string up the entire bunkerboy and cheney crime families and the REPUKES who did all this just like they did to Mussolini.

[UDenver20]

48. Amen

Amen. Amen. and Amen.

[xiamiam]

50. the world knows what we've done..why shouldn't americans know?...

its a ridiculous notion...we are accountable...our government is accountable...

[UDenver20]

51. Wasn't Bush's campaign airplane called....

"ACCOUNTABILITY ONE"

???????????????????????????

[Placebo]

52. U.S. Told Not to Release Abu Ghraib Photos

Releasing photos and videotapes of detainee abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison would aid al-Qaida recruitment, weaken governments in Iraq and Afghanistan and incite riots against U.S. troops, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff warned in court papers.

The American Civil Liberties Union is seeking the release of 87 photographs and four videotapes taken at the prison as part of a lawsuit it filed in October 2003.

Gen. Richard B. Myers wrote in recently unsealed court papers filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan that it was "probable that al-Qaida and other groups will seize upon these images and videos as grist for their propaganda mill."

The ACLU complaint seeks information on the treatment of detainees in U.S. custody and the transfer of prisoners to countries known to use torture. It also contends that prisoner abuse is systemic.

More...

[bemildred]

53. Yeah, screw the law. Screw the Geneva Conventions.

The so called bastions of morality choose expediency again.

[liberalismresurgent]

59. neocons used the geneva convention

To argue that photos of prisoners can't be released because the geneva convention says their faces can't be shown, to avoid embarassment. To which the judge replied that the faces can easily be blacked out or blurred.
So as you can see the Geneva Convention is not altogether useless for these opportunistic vultures.

[DanCa]

54. Just when I dont think I can take any more my heart breaks once more. (nt)

[leesa]

56. I can't wait to see Meyers convicted of treason and war crimes.

[liberalismresurgent]

58. The Judge in charge of the case is a liberal

Which is a good thing.

Hellerstein, Alvin K.

Born 1933 in New York, NY

Federal Judicial Service:
U. S. District Court, Southern District of New York
Nominated by William J. Clinton on May 15, 1998, to a seat vacated by Louis L. Stanton; Confirmed by the Senate on October 21, 1998, and received commission on October 22, 1998.

Education:
Columbia College, B.A., 1954

Columbia Law School, J.D., 1956

Professional Career:
Law clerk, Hon. Edmund Palmieri, U.S. District Court, Southern District of New York, 1956-1957
U.S. Army, JAG Corps, 1957-1960
Private practice, New York City, 1960-1998

Race or Ethnicity: White

Gender: Male

[kodi]

55. excuse me, then why in the world did they torture those poor people?

did the bushevik regime think the torturing of iraqis would not get out to the public?

i am sure iraqis already know full well what the americans did to their countrymen.

the US government is actually more worried about the repercussions at home than any affect the release of those pix and videos will have on the muslim world.

i consider bush et al to be war criminals and i hope he and other officials are convicted of such crimes and spend the rest of their lives in a 8' X 10' cell in the hague

[Up2Late]

60. US fights fresh Abu Ghraib images (BBC News)

(This is the latest chapter to this story, I haven't found the anything on the Friday Filing, referred to in the BBC article, if anyone has that info, please ad it, and if anyone has seen these latest moves by the Pentagon, please report those too.)

US fights fresh Abu Ghraib images

The US government is trying to stop fresh images of prisoner abuse in Iraq being made public, claiming they will aid the insurgency, court papers show.

Saturday, 13 August, 2005, 21:10 GMT 22:10 UK

US civil liberties groups have launched a lawsuit to force the release of 87 pictures and four videos showing abuse at Abu Ghraib jail in Baghdad. Earlier images sparked worldwide condemnation and resulted in charges against a number of soldiers. The US argues the rest should stay hidden to avoid helping the insurgents. It is "probable that al-Qaeda and other groups will seize upon these images and videos as grist for their propaganda mill," the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Gen Richard Myers, argues in court papers.

Releasing the images could also incite violence against US troops, he says. And he says the images would be detrimental to the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan. Gen Myers' arguments were contained in court documents filed on 21 July but only recently unsealed. The Pentagon stepped up its campaign with a later request, submitted on Friday, for certain material to be kept from the public domain.

'Accountability'

The civil liberties groups have submitted counter-arguments by a retired US Army Colonel, Michael Pheneger, who insists the public good would be served by publication of the images. "The first step to abandoning practices that are repugnant to our laws and national ideals is to bring them into the sunshine and assign accountability," he wrote. He also argued that the Iraqi insurgency would continue regardless of whether or not the pictures were published.

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4149840.stm>

(more and a Photo, at the link above)

Related: The latest ACLU filings and press releases are at this link <http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4321711>

or at the ACLU website: <http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=18910&c=206>

[Fridays Child]

61. Somebody posted an article, yesterday, about the ACLU's amicus brief.

Lemme look...

[Fridays Child]

62. It was this one...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4331416

[Up2Late]

63. Thanks, I guess I missed that one, problem is, A.P. Stories like this...

...one, they tend to get edited by the "news" papers around the U.S. I don't know it's legal, but they do it to these these stories anyway. Or they just hide them behind the "Members Only" archives, that's one of the best ways to tell which party a Newspapers editor/publisher supports.

Here's some links to compare:

Edit:

<http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3308582>

<http://www.lex18.com/Global/story.asp?S=3717340>

<http://159.54.227.3/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050813/NEWS/508130306>

Full length:

<http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1123813192137>

<http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20050812-1648-detaineerecords.html>

<http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/theworld/2005/August/theworld_August373.xml§ion=theworld&col=>

<http://www.theage.com.au/news/iraq/abu-ghraib-prison-photos-could-cause-riots/2005/08/13/1123353530268.html?oneclick=true>

And this one! If anyone is a Member here at Military .com,
I'd love to know what they are saying in the "Sound OFF!" discussion. :hi:

[Coventina]

64. Their logic is mind blowing: "We can't show us raping and torturing"

"Because it will only prove the enemy right!"

Well duh!!!!

Maybe you shouldn't have been raping and torturing in the first place!

Idiots!!!!!!!