U.S. losing leadership in engineering to Asia

[lovuian]

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3308988

U.S. losing leadership in engineering to Asia
Experts claim the innovation in industry that made nation great is being threatened
By KEVIN G. HALL
Knight Ridder Tribune News

ATLANTA - The United States faces a crisis in engineering — the nucleus of many vital industries — that menaces its economic future.

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Pacific Rim nations are graduating great numbers of engineers and threatening to seize the mantle of industrial innovation that was pivotal to making the U.S. economy globally dominant. Last year foreign nationals also earned almost 60 percent of American engineering doctorates.

Experts warn that the U.S. lead is slipping away.

"We are being out-produced in engineering graduates — both undergraduate and graduate level — by Pacific Rim countries, and the comparison will be more extreme as the years go by," said Richard Heckel, founder of Engineering Trends, a research consultancy. "From an engineering standpoint, the future leaders of the world are going to come from the Pacific Rim."


Five times the graduates
Relative to the sizes of their populations, Asian nations such as Taiwan and South Korea are graduating five times as many undergraduate students in engineering as the United States. Engineering Trends did an exhaustive study and determined that the United States ranked 16th per capita in the number of doctoral graduates and 25th in engineering undergraduates per million citizens.

This isn't merely an academic problem. It affects virtually every engineering specialty in society beyond the civil and structural designers who build roads and bridges, including chemical, petroleum, industrial and especially electrical and computer engineering.

In such fields U.S. companies have designed everything from spray cans to the space shuttle. Historically, Americans have prided themselves on ingenuity and innovation. If America slides in engineering, it'll lose a competitive economic advantage along with part of its national identity
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This is due to the Corporations in America... they pay millions to CEO's and nothing to engineers and scientists why become them better to become a CEO!!!

In America in a company the Research budget is the one slashed and burned first!!!

[girl gone mad]

1. Inadequate pay is just one facet of the problem.

Others include:

No job security.

The dumbing down of American culture.

The soaring costs of college, particularly for graduate and post-graduate study.

The declining conditions and standards in the public school system.

Too much emphasis on sports, not enough on math and science.

I can't think of a single American math/science role model for kids right now.

I could go on, but it is too depressing.

[brokensymmetry]

3. How right you are. n/t.

.

[ConcernedCanuk]

4. Ya missed a biggee there - the breakdown of the Family Unit

.
.
.

I have worked with many "foreigners" for lack of a better word.

Many of them do not leave home until their careers, and in many cases their marriages are stable. This includes the married couple having their own dwelling, in many cases paid for.

Us North Americans, yes, Canuks too, seem only too eager to "kick the yung uns outta the nest" so they can "prove" their worth - or more realistically cuz mom and pop just plain WANT them out.

Many of these "foreign" families, sometimes two or three related families, pool their resources to make a success of the children, sacrificing luxuries that some of the poorer "natives"(not to be confused with the Natives we displaced) feel is their right to own - THESE families do NOT waste their last dollars leasing a shiny vehicle they have no need for - when they finally get a new shiny vehicle in their driveway - U can bet ur butt IT'S PAID FOR.

AND

Their children are in stable jobs and dwellings.

Our single families can't come close to offering the support system these people have

So we cannot blame the "others" for TAKING our jobs

We GAVE them away

[fortyfeetunder]

17. There are math and science role models

"I can't think of a single American math/science role model for kids right now."

To name a few: Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Stephen Hawking -- and our astronauts, Sally Ride, Neil Armstrong, Mae Jemison, Eileen Collins (Discovery Commander).

The real problem is society and the MSM chooses to give more visibility to those who are not in the math and science professions. The kids are getting more messages from the MSM about entertainers and athletes.

[midnight armadillo]

27. Two businessman and an esoteric theorist

To name a few: Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Stephen Hawking -- and our astronauts, Sally Ride, Neil Armstrong, Mae Jemison, Eileen Collins (Discovery Commander).

Bill Gates & Steve Jobs are businessmen, not scientists or engineers. Hawking has never made a testable prediction in his career and his fame eclipses his real scientific influence.

Most young Americans could never name those astronauts. Guaranteed.

[fortyfeetunder]

30. Their backgrounds were technical

I agree Gates and Jobs crossed over to the business sector. But their roots started out in the basic product development. Many scientists and engineers also go that route at some time during their careers.

Actually we need more people like that instead of the business majors assigned to manage technical products who haven't the foggiest clue of what they are managing.

[Canuckistanian]

34. Besides which, Hawking is British

And "testable predictions" are not the mark of a good scientist. Hawking advanced understanding of cosmology including black holes and the Big Bang theory and is respected as one of the best theoreticians since Einstein.

[midnight armadillo]

35. Yeah, but I'm an experimentalist

Having stuff work in the lab is a big deal to us lab monkeys :D

[KT2000]

2. Losing leadership is right

American companies are importing the brains it takes to do just about everything.
Coupled with the export of manufacturing jobs to countries that are preparing themselves to run things themselves and we are going downhill fast.
Let's face it - America is becoming totally dependent. So if they do something we don't like - I guess brainiacs like Bush will bomb the countries that supply our brains and manufacture everything we need. Only Bush would think that was a smart move.

[wli]

5. relatively old news n/t

[cornermouse]

6. Engineering is apparently a rather expensive degree to attain.

Back when they were still hiring engineers in this country, I know someone who was accepted into engineering school but couldn't afford the cost and went into another field instead. He was disappointed at the time, but I think hindsight has put a new perspective on that decision.

We're losing ground and jobs in more areas than engineering and I don't see any change in that as long as greed and short term objectives are the only goal.

[awoke_in_2003]

9. Yes, it is expensive.

Double majoring in mechanical and aerospace eng. UTA (Univ of Texas, Arlington) cost around $2400 a semester (i am taking 12 hours/semester). Add in lab fees, computer use fees, library fees, parking fees, student union fees, toilet use fees (just kidding), etc then add in the cost of books and we are talking at least 4 grand. But that, I think, is the grand scheme- because an educated workforce is a well paid workforce. Cheaper to export jobs and grant work visas.

[Gregorian]

14. Hey, best of luck!

I graduated as a mechanical engineer in 1990 from a university in California. I found it very very difficult (I went 12 years after I graduated from high school). But in hindsight, those were the best years of my life.
If you figure out Castigliano's theorem, please explain it to me. Haha.

[VTMechEngr]

25. Why study engineering here?

It took me a freaking year to get a Job out of School. Why suffer though all the classes and money if Corporate America decides that they can just go overseas and pay Indian engineers $900 per month for the same work.

Engineering pay is going down every year. The Republicans and greedy corporate interests are destroying engineering. And they wonder why we are loosing our lead.


FUCKING DUH!

[TomClash]

7. The Nation's security is a stake

When I was in Government that actually meant something.

With these people it is only a license to steal.

[Mairead]

8. This is not madly surprising

Between outsourcing jobs (people who innovate generally work in the field first) and paying badly the ones that remain, and pricing edu out of reach, the corporatocracy is killing the USA.

But they themselves aren't hurting, so that's alright.

[Alpharetta]

10. Who needs engineering? Just use God, the intelligent design choice

When they're teaching creationism as part of the science curriculum, is it any wonder we lose the lead in science?

[AlanAdam]

16. Engineering student's opinion ...

I'm not aware of any public schools teaching these things, and I don't think it's helpful to let this discussion get sidetracked on debating the issue of teaching evolution.

I am a 50 year old electrical engineering student at Wichita State University. I have been taking one college course every semester in the evening for most of my life. I already have a degree in chemical engineering and one in mathematics. I have also taught English in mainline China twice, and I'm married to a Chinese woman who teaches economics at Wichita State, so I've come into contact with a lot of Chinese students, both here and abroad.

In my opinion, the two most significant reasons for the drop in the number of American graduates with technical degrees is 1) American students are lazy relative to foreign students, and 2) American popular culture doesn't emphasize the importance of education. (I also believe that most Americans have not yet accepted the fact that at this point in world history, education needs to be a lifelong pursuit.)

In my technical classes, the majority of students are from countries other than the U.S. Most of them are from south Asia, but also from east Asia and Africa. They pay a fortune to come here to study (much more than American students pay), and both they and their families back home sacrifice greatly for them to be here. They (generally) work very hard while they are here. Many come here because the opportunities to receive a university education are better for them here than in their home countries.

Until our culture starts to once again emphasize the importance of lifelong education, and not just as a means to an end, but as an end itself, the current trend will just worsen. I'm not optimistic.

[fortyfeetunder]

18. very good points!

Especially the perception by our society on education and lifelong learning!

What I fail to understand the logic how many metro areas can build lavish sports and entertainment palaces for nearly hundreds of millions of dollars, but balk at a million dollar increase for public and post-secondary education...

and welcome to DU :hi:

[lovuian]

22. I'm sorry but I disagree!!! Our students are NOT LAZY!!!

that is a myth put out by all of the academia... Unfortunately the academia has catered to this myth and you just went along and swallowed it hook line and sinker...

My family came in contact with this when seated with 5 asian friends of his and they were all saying how Americans were lazy. They forgot that my son was not asian and the joke was he had the highest GPA out of all of them...

Actually American Students are going where the money is... Its not in engineering and NOT in the sciences... the Money is in BUSINESS!!!

I heard my kids discuss this subject
The one kid going to engineering school goes I'm going to make an invention and be a millionaire

My kid goes you will be working for me...

thats actually how business in America has been for years now...
Scientists Engineers they make something is usual for a Big company... they are salaried and often are sent to OTHER countries to work... Your right things aren't going to change at all!!!Unless we go to war with ASIA. Then things will change...I believe its coming!!!

[ramapo]

23. Many students are VERY lazy

Most of the lazy ones are American...My son just graduated high school. He was on the Academic Decathlon team. These teams compete for top team scores on events (mostly tests) in ten categories.

My son studied his ass off, dedicating much personal time to preparing for the regional and state events. At the NJ state competition, roughly 80% of the participants were Asian or Russian. My son's school with a relatively low Asian population had trouble attracting participants.

My son finished first in the state, two years in a row. How?, he was asked. "You just have to do the work", was his answer. I'll add that he is also extremely intelligent but he still had to do the work.

In addition, science is not valued as a profession, despite the hype. My niece got an engineering degree, couldn't find work, and is now a programmer waiting for her job to be sent to China or India.

I can't tell you how many resumes I've seen from incredibly smart, highly educated in the sciences, who are looking for work in the computer field because they can't get hired in their particular field of science.

The U.S. is losing its edge, no doubt about it, and it is our own fault.

[Alpharetta]

32. It's not just evolution. It's rightwing politicization of science

I don't think it sidetracks the discussion at all to bring up the most prominent recent case of fundamentalists sidetracking science.

I think it's valid to bring up these issues.

Why should students invest in science when they can't trust their government to allow them to pursue it?

- environmental science is scoffed at by Republican naysayers who want industry to decide what is acceptable damage

- an entire university's genetics research runs the risk of getting its funding pulled if they run afoul of fundies afraid of cloning, genetic engineering, or medical applications of stem cells

It's totally valid to say religious fundamentalists are one of the reasons US science is on the downslide.

[Zorra]

11. Maybe because going to a university is so expensive that many kids

give up hope of ever having a chance to go to college at a young age.

[Doremus]

31. Spot on!

Shrubco has lowered federal tuition aid, not that it was much to begin with, and many middle class kids could work 2 jobs and still not have enough tuition money.

Here in Ohio tuition & room/board at a mediocre state college is $16,000/year!

Unless a kid is lucky enough to have sports talent or gets an academic scholarship, they or their parents end up with huge student loans. That is if they have the credit -- if not, too bad-so sad.

The middle class is being dumbed down, kicked out and tossed to the curb in this country. And that doesn't even address those in poverty, who don't have a prayer in hell of stepping inside an institution of higher learning unless they're part of the cleaning crew.

:mad: :spank: :grr: :nuke: :thumbsdown:

[leesa]

12. We have lost our edge in everything thanks to the right wing policies

of 'money-making for the few and the hell with the rest'

[Gregorian]

13. Things changed when we put the emphasis on jailing and bombing

We switched our attention from innovation, to making money. And the cost of living started climbing.

I believe the high cost of living kills innovation. What I mean is that innovators need free time to invent. It's hard to be a Ben Franklin or a Liebnitz when you're working at McDonald's. And even though the Chinese have more phd's, they have nearly ten times the people. And even though they have more engineers, they may not have the environment that it takes to allow them to be creative. You either have time, or you have money. And money IS time. I don't expect the Chinese to be any better than us, unless their gov't subsidizes entrepreneurialism.

[AndyTiedye]

15. What Do They Expect? They Outsourced Most of the Jobs!

The government even gives the companies a tax break for shipping American jobs overseas!

Who is going to get an engineering degree when there aren't any jobs?

[hecate77]

19. Hear, Hear. I have a PhD in Theoretical Physics, but I never

was able to work in my field. I ended up doing computer crap for a living. We educate but then refuse to fund research.

My first job out of grad school was in a nice area (solar energy), but then Ronnie killed the entire program. That left me with running the computer systems at the National Park Service in the southwest, and then writing cost estimating systems for Los Alamos. Some really useful applications of my education......

I was lucky enough to teach for a few years, but mostly, I ended up working on problems I had no real interest in. Now, I make my living by doing contract tech writing. So, tell me again, why did I get that degree?

[AndyTiedye]

21. I Knew Someone Else With That Degree

an assistant professor that didn't get tenure.
Only other jobs he could get with that degree involved nuclear weapons,
which he had absolutely no interest in.
He eventually got into writing electronic music software
and was quite successful at that.

[HughBeaumont]

20. Think. Would YOU major in a field . . .

that costs around 3-6 grand per semester, likely come out of it with a mountain of debt, bust your ass day and night in one of the hardest fields there is for four to eight years and STILL

a) come out to this lousy job market, having only a 50 - 65% chance of landing something decent?
b) remain exponentially more expensive than your Asian counterparts because of America's extremely high cost of living?
c) have to relocate to a city that HAS even a semi-thriving job market (right now, there are only a handful) for engineers?
d) if you DO land a job, you live in fear of keeping it due to offshoring or the CEO isn't rich enough or whatever reason and have to return to a) once again?

If I'm spending that much time, money and brains, I would expect something in return. Right now, the offshore-a-thon, short-term brained American corporocracy isn't willing to accommodate. But they still wonder why kids aren't venturing into math-based professions. It's because you give all the money to the CEOs, you dicks.

[VTMechEngr]

26. Right on.

Put that exactly as it is.

[agincourt]

24. Again we see the product produced ,

when we have a leadership vacuum at the top. The republican party has no interest in situations like these, and never will. They probably worry more about pushing creationism, rather than how dumbed-down we are in comparision to the Pacific Rim.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

28. Neo-con repuke engineering co. Bechtel is outsourcing eng. jobs to India

One of biggest Iraqi war pofiteers, Bechtel is stripping jobs from US offices and sending the work to India. Old line repuke insiders who supported the Arab boycott of Isreal until there were caught in the 1970s, they have their nose even further up the House of Saud's ass than the Bush family.

[Yavin4]

29. We Chose Military Spending Over Education Spending

We're competing against nations that fund their school systems like we fund our defense. We're the only first-world nation that funds its schools based on local property taxes, which means that poor schools are underfunded while rich schools are over-funded. We believe that education should be tied in with wealth.

The huge problem is that wealthy kids aren't interested in math and science. Wealthy kids want to be filmmakers. Thus, we have top notch research universities and colleges because they can get all the funding they need, but these schools have to import the students to study the "hard" stuff.

I'm glad we're losing this race because a crisis is the only thing that gets Americans to think differently.

[malaise]

33. Unintelligently designed education

The dumbing down of US education is the simple explanation. Many Asian countries have strong religions but they do not mix religion and science.