Iraqi constitution final draft ready, according to CNN

[Rhiannon12866]

A final draft Iraqi constitution is ready to be submitted to national assembly, Deputy Prime Minister Ahmad Chalabi said. More soon.

[SW FL Dem]

1. But there are still several issues to be resolved

time frame, 3 more days.

[NNN0LHI]

2. Does that mean Mission Accomplished now? n/t

[Briar]

3. Deputy Prime Minister Ahmad Chalabi

With him as the source, what more needs to be said.

[liberaliraqvet26]

4. he is a scumbag crook..

the iraqi's hate him

[Briar]

7. so should we

He's one of those who were most active in concocting the lies which led to this war.

[ElectroPrincess]

20. Yeah a.k.a. "screw ball" ... oh, make that "curve ball" :P /eom

[Rhiannon12866]

9. I know, that made me choke, as well!

What is up with this creep, anyway? We know damn well that he's responsible for misleading the DOD on what the Americans could expect from the Iraqi people. And we know that he is guilty of bilking millions from the U.S. government. And, last I knew, he'd been spirited away by Interpol, on the eve of the Iraqi election, to finally face 26 counts of bank fraud in Jordan, which we've known about all along. So why is this guy still out there, calling the shots (no pun intended), no less?! What the hell happened?! Why is he even still running around loose?!:shrug::grr:

[barb162]

21. hey, tell me about it. It's like watching Twilight Zone for pete's sake

You know those shows where someone ran over and killed a person with a car and the person keeps showing up in the next town and the next town after that.

[Rhiannon12866]

25. I get the exact same feeling. Talk about having numerous lives...

The term "teflon" keeps coming to mind...:-(

And what about his nephew? The judge who was supposed to preside over Saddam's trial? Last I knew he was accused of murder and hiding out in London. Anyone heard anything about him, lately?:shrug:

[barb162]

26. I didn't know he had a nephew, you mean there's more of them??

[Rhiannon12866]

29. Yup!

There are no doubt as many Chalabis as there were Husseins...:shrug:

The nephew was supposed to be the presiding judge in Saddam's trial, until he was accused, discredited and he fled the country, fearing for his life. I always thought that there was something fishy about him being assigned to Saddam's trial...:-(

[maddezmom]

5. AP:Iraqi Parliament Awaits Constitution (w/o Sunni support)

By QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA, Associated Press Writer
17 minutes ago



BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraqi leaders finished their draft constitution Monday and prepared to submit it to parliament — but without critical approval of the Sunni Arab community whose support is key to ending the insurgency.

The parliament was gathering with just minutes remaining before a midnight deadline to adopt the constitution, which still faced fierce resistance from minority Sunnis over the issue of federalism, which they fear could cut them out of most of the country's vast oil wealth.

Sunni negotiator Saleh al-Mutlaq said there was no consensus and there may be another extension for the draft.

"There is still no agreement and if they want to hand the draft today they will be violating the law," al-Mutlaq told The Associated Press as parliament gathered to receive the draft. "We are calling for accord and it is impossible to reach agreement in the next half an hour."

more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050822/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq;_

[Rhiannon12866]

6. More on this, Reuters: Iraq Sunnis up in arms as Shi'ites force charter

By Michael Georgy and Andrew Hammond
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraq's ruling Shi'ite Islamists prepared to force a constitution through parliament before a midnight Monday deadline but minority Sunnis vowed to vote it down in a referendum and warned of civil war.

President Bush, himself campaigning to quell growing disquiet at home over the costly military occupation of Iraq, has pressed hard for the U.S.-sponsored timetable to be respected and says it will help sap the Sunni Arab insurgency.

With under an hour to the deadline, there was confusion over whether Sunni outrage might force parliament to grant a second week-long extension to negotiators. One Sunni delegate said he expected this when the Assembly convened shortly. But a Shi'ite representative said parliament would vote through the draft.

The draft prepared by Shi'ites and Kurds, assisted by U.S. diplomats but without Sunni involvement, gave ground to some of the once dominant minority's fears of Shi'ites and Kurds hiving off strong federal regions in the oil-rich north and south.

A text seen by Reuters defined Iraq as a "federal" republic. Details on the extent and mechanisms of autonomy would be worked out later, delegates involved in drafting the text said.

The draft also made Islam "a main source" of law in what seemed a compromise between Islamist Shi'ites and secular Kurds.

But Sunni Arabs, outraged at what they called a "breach of consensus," stood by a demand "federalism" be left out.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-08-22T195358Z_01_MOL045458_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-IRAQ-DC.XML

[Double T]

8. How in the hell is this Iraqi Constitution ever going to work based on....

real world Iraq???

[Rhiannon12866]

10. Read the previous article. It's not...

:-(

[Eloriel]

Well, you see, that was just ONE of the problems going in that some

experts warned about. In fact, I have to admit (not with any pride) that as I read the accounts of the factions in Iraq and their intractibility prior to the war and the improbability that they could be unified under ANY circumstances after our intervention, it occurred to me that there are times when a dictator is exactly the right governing authority. Really, I saw it as exactly that bad, and these events of today (and tomorrow and ... ?) appear to be pointing in that direction as well.

[Double T]

18. Chaos Before Saddam, Chaos After Saddam...........

mmmm, really starts to make you wonder.

[Rhiannon12866]

22. You're exactly right. I remember reading what you're saying about Saddam.

Evil as he was, he was the exact kind of ruthless strongman needed to hold this disparate bunch together. What I read said that if he didn't exist, he would have had to have been invented...:shrug:

But Bush* didn't even know the difference between Iraqi Sunnis, Sh'ia and Kurds until Super Bowl Sunday, only a few weeks before his planned invasion!!! And the sad thing is that I knew this, and you certainly did, most folks on DU undoubtedly did. Those of us who read up on all this understood the warnings and the probable outcome. But the fact that "the leader of the free world" didn't know this, and is continuing to turn a blind eye to the bloody mess that this debacle continues to be, is nothing short of tragic. And I don't get any satisfaction of being able to say "I told you so," either.;(

[underpants]

11. So, what's next in the "When ____ the insurgents will stop" timeline?

We've had

Baghdad falls
Saddam is captured
The CPA signs over authority
Iraqis vote

So what is the next benchmark we will be told about that will magically make everyone happy and stop the "insurgent" attacks?


Anyone? Any ideas? Christmas?

[Rhiannon12866]

12. When the U.S. finally gets out of there is my best guess...

But when that will finally be is anybody's guess...:eyes:

[King Coal]

13. Chalabi? Chalabi?

Do they really think we are that stupid? I guess they do, and I guess most Americans are. I fucking give up.

[Rhiannon12866]

16. I know! Read my question, #9... I have a few questions, as well!

The thing that drives me mad is that you have questions and I have questions, everybody on DU has questions about this crook! But my biggest question is why doesn't the U.S. government have questions?! When the hell will they learn?! If we know the truth about this guy, shouldn't they?!:crazy::grr:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1719210&mesg_id=1719242

[MidwestTransplant]

14. Is this the death knell that Uncca Dick was talking about?

Yeah right.

[NYC]

15. The U.S. was involved, but the resident Sunnis were not.

...The draft prepared by Shi'ites and Kurds, assisted by U.S. diplomats but without Sunni involvement...

Doesn't this make things just a tad undemocratic?

[Rhiannon12866]

17. Exactly. But it appears that Bush* has given up on "democracy,"

Just like he has flip-flopped his views on everything else relating to this godforsaken mess...:grr:

Read the latest news story that I posted from Reuters. It says exactly what you are...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1719210&mesg_id=1719227

[NYC]

19. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know democracy was out.

Are weapons of mass destruction back in now?

[Rhiannon12866]

24. Yup, "democracy" is no longer the goal here.

I've heard it from the ass's own mouth... I think he's just beginning to realize what a corner that he's painted himself into and, as is his pattern, he's going to spin any kind of fundamentalist theocracy or whatever into some kind of victory and use this as an excuse to get out.:-(

As for WMDs? What WMDs?! Oh those WMDs!!! Well, we know that Saddam had them! Hell, we gave them to him prior to 1991! But the inspectors couldn't find them, so they were pulled out and we went in.:shrug:

And what this was really all about was removing a really bad man, wasn't it?! I mean, isn't the world a better place without Saddam in power?! Of course it is! See, we accomplished what we set out to do, after all!:applause:

[slackmaster]

23. The Sunnis were advised by their own leaders to boycott the process

They were misled. That doesn't solve the problem, but their situation is largely of their own making.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1414818,00.html

[Rhiannon12866]

28. Thank you. Excellent article. Leave it to the foreign press...

If the Sunnis were to execute a turnaround, it would certainly help the process. However, it is just expecting way too much to expect factions who have been at each others' throats for hundreds of years to suddenly cooperate with each other. It's amazing enough that they managed to come together in the same room! It took our forefathers, who were pretty much on the same page, four years to draft the U.S. Constitution. To expect far more from a contingency made up of sworn enemies is to expect a miracle and then some...:-(

[Akoto]

27. As Jon Stewart once said ...

"Sure, they should have no problem ending two milennia of ethic and religious hatred in two days."

[Rhiannon12866]

30. Thanks! Excellent quote!!! Leave it to the "fake news"

to accurately articulate the real problem in a few well-chosen words...:-(

[speedingbullet]

31. Mission Accomplished

So our troops get to come home now, right? OK, maybe not. They do get to put up a banner or something don't they?

[Rhiannon12866]

32. Iraqi Negotiators Submit Constitution, More Work Ahead

This is a really good article chronicling the details of exactly what transpired and what we can possibly expect:

By Neil MacDonald
Baghdad
22 August 2005

The speaker of Iraq's parliament, Hajim al-Hasani, says a draft constitution has been submitted on time, but Shi'ites, Kurds and Sunnis have three more days to resolve pending issues. The talks that could bring final agreement on the document.

Minutes before the midnight deadline, parliament convened, expecting to vote on a draft.

Shi'ite and Kurdish leaders entered the chamber saying a draft was finished, fueling expectations that they would force it through the assembly over continued Sunni objections.

Mr. Hassani acknowledged receiving the draft constitution, but he said that work would continue to "solve the remaining problems."

Mr. Hasani, himself a Sunni Arab, called for further efforts to achieve unanimity "so that the constitution pleases everyone."

He then adjourned the session without voting.

The draft defines Iraq as a "federal" state, a structure that the Sunni Arabs, concentrated in the center of the country, fear could leave them marginalized, deprived of Iraq's oil wealth.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-08-22-voa35.cfm

[realFedUp]

33. $100 billion, thousands dead and Sharia law...what a bargain

:eyes:

[hippiechick]

34. What if their first act as an 'official nation' is

... to order the US 'coalition' to GTF outta their country ?

Will Georgie listen, now that Iraq's a 'democratically elected', sovreign nation ?

:shrug:

[Cooley Hurd]

35. Sadly, it's a blueprint for civil war...

...and it's not been voted on, to boot.

[Rhiannon12866]

37. Not yet, just wait until the Sunnis sign in...

And the vote isn't due until October. If so much can be accomplished in such a few days, how much can be accomplished before then?! Some of us always have hope, despite terrible odds...:shrug:

[Rhiannon12866]

36. Iraqis Submit Charter, but Delay Vote (Washington Post, latest)

Shiite-Kurd Coalition Agrees to Negotiate With Sunnis, Who Threaten Revolt

By Ellen Knickmeyer and Jonathan Finer
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, August 23, 2005; Page A01

BAGHDAD, Aug. 22 -- Iraq's Shiite Muslim majority and its Kurdish allies moved Monday toward fundamentally reshaping their nation, submitting a proposed constitution that would create a loose federation with strongly Islamic national laws.

The draft constitution, sent to parliament just five minutes before a midnight deadline, outraged negotiators for Iraq's Sunni Arab minority, and Sunni constitutional delegates warned that civil unrest could erupt if the charter becomes law over their objections.

"The streets will rise up," predicted Salih Mutlak, a Sunni delegate.

But the coalition of Shiites and Kurds, which holds a heavy majority in parliament and could easily approve the constitution on its own, agreed late Monday to postpone a vote for three days in hopes of appeasing Sunni negotiators.

Sunni support for the constitution is seen as crucial to ending the insurgency that continues to stage deadly attacks across the country. Sunnis fear the proposed federal system would cause the breakup of Iraq, but Shiite and Kurdish leaders said they intended to yield little ground in their right to form separate federal states.

"There will be no central government like before," said Humam Hamoudi, the constitutional committee chairman and a member of the Shiite sect that was subjected to decades of repression under Saddam Hussein's centrally controlled rule. "There will be decentralized government."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/22/AR2005082200101.html?referrer=email&referrer=email

[Rhiannon12866]

38. Bush: Iraq's Sunnis face choice on constitution

By Tabassum Zakaria

DONNELLY, Idaho (Reuters) - President George W. Bush said on Tuesday that Iraq's Sunnis, who have balked at a draft constitution offered by Shi'ites and Kurds, have to decide what kind of society they want to live in.

Iraq's Shi'ite-led government has ruled out any major change to a draft constitution that parliament looks set to pass this week despite minority Sunni objections that it could ignite civil war.

Sunnis mainly oppose the constitution because they see it as giving too much power to the majority Shi'ites, who are pushing for a large autonomous region in the oil-rich south.

"This talk about Sunnis rising up, I mean the Sunnis have got to make a choice. Do they want to live in a society that's free, or do they want to live in violence?" Bush told reporters at a resort in Idaho.

Bush, traveling from Texas where he is on a month-long vacation, has sought to counter anti-war protesters and sagging public opinion about the war in Iraq. He said the United States needs to complete its mission there to protect American security at home and that a withdrawal would weaken the United States.

He described the Iraq constitution as guaranteeing "minority rights, women rights, freedom to worship."


http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=9452993&src=eDialog/GetContent

[Rhiannon12866]

39. Any bets on what's going to happen in October?

It sure doesn't sound promising...:-(