Poll finds regular worshipers more supportive of war in Iraq

[truthpusher]

http://www.wkbn.com/Global/story.asp?S=3753123&nav=81Al2QEr

Poll finds regular worshipers more supportive of war in Iraq
-------------------
Associated Press
-------------------
NEW YORK A new poll finds that the more often Americans go to church, the more supportive they are of U-S foreign policy, including the war in Iraq.

The poll by Public Agenda finds that people who frequently attend worship services are far more likely to support the war on terror and believe that the U-S is achieving its objectives in Iraq.

Americans who never attend worship services are much more likely to believe that the war is damaging international relations and is costing too much in money and casualties.

Public Agenda's Michael Remaley (reh-MAL'-ee) says the poll reflects evangelical Christians' greater tendency to view the world in terms of good and evil, and their support for President

Link to story: http://www.wkbn.com/Global/story.asp?S=3753123&nav=81Al2QEr

[Jacobin]

Faith Based War

Now they are looking for a miracle.

[saigon68]

68. Which Islamic "Towel Heads" would JESUS KILL ???

"Hopefully all of them", shouted the AWOL CHIMPANZEE

And his Lap Dog Robertson

[bribri16]

95. Really gives "Christianity" a bad name. No wonder Islam is growing and

Christianity is not.

[pinniped]

1. Now the recruiters know where to set up shop.

.

[sniffa]

5. ooh

Let's set up tabLes outside churches.

[Claire Beth]

35. yeah, but they won't someone else fighting the war for them.....

they are such hypocrites.

[saigon68]

73. ONWARD, CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus going on before.
Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;
Forward into battle see His banners go!

Refrain

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus going on before.

At the sign of triumph Satan’s host doth flee;
On then, Christian soldiers, on to victory!
Hell’s foundations quiver at the shout of praise;
Brothers lift your voices, loud your anthems raise.

Refrain

Like a mighty army moves the church of God;
Brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod.
We are not divided, all one body we,
One in hope and doctrine, one in charity.

[Cha]

37. There ya go...that cannot be drummed

into peoples' heads enough.."You want this never ending WAR ON IRAQ, Suckers..you go fight in the Damned thing."!

[okieinpain]

54. they said that church goers believe the president more. they didn't

say they were stupid. :~)

[Southpaw Bookworm]

92. Just in time for Vacation Bible School

Which are pretty much efforts to recruit children to church. That's how I got sucked in: the free orange-aid and cookies.

[MetaTrope]

94. How cheap!

I got hot chocolate and doughnuts.

[sniffa]

2. bringing in the sheep

bringing in the sheep
we shaLL come rejoicing
bringing in the sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-PUH!!

[Teaser]

20. Isn't it "sheaves"?

I can never remember.

[Dervill Crow]

48. Not in this context. n/t

[jody]

80. Understand but "goats" would be more appropriate, see Mat 25: 31-46.

Jesus will send those represented by goats into everlasting punishment.

[Dervill Crow]

97. Thanks; I'll look that up!

My Bible scholarship is a bit rusty. :blush:

[hatrack]

126. As Cake said, "Sheep go to Heaven, goats go to Hell."

A moment of lyrical genius!

[Mz Pip]

3. Prabably they

think this will somehow turn into some Christian state. It won't but I doubt many of these folks know much about the history of the region.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[salinen]

4. Satan is more believable

than Jesus.

[seriousstan]

11. With Jesus, Satan is a fact. Very believable indeed.

[sarcasmo]

122. As an Atheist, I am glad I can laugh at all of this STUPIDITY.

Kill each other in the name of Religion. Leave me out of your INSANITY.

[Teaser]

6. Pray Harder, fuckos

Pray harder.

[autorank]

7. Who are they worshiping, Thor, God of War

Have any of these people bothered to read the New Testament -- Books 1-4, you know, the ones about Jesus.

If this is true, then the path to true worship and religion begins by staying home.

[Teaser]

17. Thor is about dumb enough

for this cock up.

He is one of the stupider gods in any pantheon. But he has a good heart, even if he is a sloppy drunk.

[Lorien]

61. Or possibly Aries. n/t

[imperialismispasse]

111. That made me laugh hard.

Thanks. I'm not a regular churchgoer but I go sometimes (not a fundie church) and I've never heard anything about war being one of the things Jesus stood for.

[VPStoltz]

8. I am beginning to doubt the power of Christ

If Jesus's message is so strong, how can SO many get it wrong?

[autorank]

14. They get it wrong because it is so strong!

They can't stand the truth, it's right there. Why is he called "The Prince of Peace"...maybe because that's what he portrayed. He didn't start a violent revolution, he didn't attack people, he didn't call for deaths, etc., he didn't curse people to live in Hell forever. NO, he engaged in positive acts, was peaceful, contemplative, intelligent, accepting of others who were flawed, charitable, etc. etc.

Some people can't stand that model, so they invent something entirely different. They say that because 1 passage in only 1 Gospel causes Jesus to endorse "the law" from the Old Testament, Jesus endorses all of that. Crazy isn't it.

The message is ignored so often because it is such a strong, consistent, compelling call to humility, peace, and contemplation. Jesus was, above all else, IMHO, a "Wisdom Teacher." Not an easy sell now days, or any day, for that matter.

[Iowa]

28. Great post autorank! (eom)

[autorank]

53. Thanks Iowa ;)

[okieinpain]

55. false prophets.

[truthpusher]

30. Jesus gave his message to the people....

....the power of Christ has nothing to do with it...it's the power of the people. It's the super-hero worshiping "Christians" that have a hard time w/Christ's Message. Jesus was simply passing the torch of love...the war is not an act of love...it is an act of selfishness, carelessness and hatred.

[Cha]

39. Cause there are so Many Fuckups

has nothing to do with Jesus.

There's plenty of good People out there who do follow His teachings and Protested Against this Invasion of Iraq. I know because my sister was one of them.. We went to New York City on Feb 15, 2003 and joined a World Wide Protest of Millions.

bush, too Stupid to be president, said we were all a fringe group and the media reported it with glee.

[oioioi]

66. Matthew 6

1"Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

5"And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

[VPStoltz]

138. This remains one my favorite lessons from the Bible.

So few get it.

[bunkerbuster1]

77. Google "First Council of Nicaea"

Here's the Wiki-take:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

Short version: Jesus became a god, Christianity became mostly a tool of government to oppress inconvenient people.

[VegasWolf]

107. Maybe because God and Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy don't really

exist!!!!!

[sarcasmo]

125. I second the motion.

[OhioBlue]

9. I just can't understand....

Jesus was a man of peace. How can they justify the killing? I don't understand why all devout Christians are not peace activists.

[Pirate Smile]

16. I swear they didn't bother reading the New Testament.

They seem to always want to focus on the Old Testament and then go around saying what Christians they are. I'm always thinking - "then act Christ-like" because they sure don't.

[kineneb]

60. Especially the Beatitudes...

blessed are the poor, the meek, etc. Also the part about letting go your worldly goods.

[WhoWantsToBeOccupied]

109. I love Jesus' philosophy but rejected the mysticism. Many do the opposite!

I was raised a Christian but just stopped buying into the mysticism and religion part in high school. But Jesus' moral philosophy has always stuck with me. Too many seem to ignore the moral philosophy and treat religion like a license to bully and kill non-believers.

[Pirate Smile]

10. Does anyone else Alanis Morrisette's song running through their head?

You know which one I mean. ;-)

I have been glad to see some priests at Camp Casey lately (from TV footage). There should be a lot of them, and the sisters, there.

[DBoon]

12. They see this as a battle between good and evil

and they support a war founded on lies, that kills thousands of innocent people, and is destroying the lives of millions, impoverishing our country and alienating us from the rest of the world.

So that must mean that these church going folks are strong supproters of evil, right?

[Pirate Smile]

104. I believe the Southern Baptists were the only church to back the Iraq War.

edit to add this:

"The Southern Baptists hold little ambivalence about the war against Iraq. Leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention, the country's largest Protestant body --- and the No. 1 denomination in metro Atlanta --- have supported the Bush administration's position on Iraq.

-snip-
There are even divisions over the war when it comes to race. Catholics, mainline Protestants and black churchgoers said they had heard sermons mostly opposed to the war. White evangelicals said they had heard sermons mostly supporting the war.

-snip-
The Catholic Church has been the counterpart to the Southern Baptists. Its opposition to the war has been unwavering.

-snip-
Yet, though most church leaders maintained their opposition to war, they muted their direct criticisms. Many had people in their denominations with spouses or children in the U.S. forces attacking Iraq.

-snip-
Still, religious leaders who oppose the war remain frustrated that they have not been able to reach out to Bush. Only Cardinal Pio Laghi, on a personal mission from Pope John Paul II, has met with the president to voice opposition to war with Iraq.

The biggest concern from some church leaders is not whether the United States will win the war against Iraq but what will follow afterward."

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/2818

[tanyev]

13. Not all Christians fit that stereotype.

I'd like to see a breakdown of that poll by denomination, education, income level, etc. I'm in church every Sunday and I have never supported this war, and I have never liked George Bush. (And I had to endure him as a governor.)

[journalist3072]

25. Thank you!

As a Christian myself, I am offended and angry by the results of that poll.

I do not support sending our sons and daughters to die in order to install the Koran in Iraq.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God."

--Matthew 5:9

[Dervill Crow]

32. Amen! n/t

[bunkerbuster1]

78. I think most folks reading this thread know that.

I've so much respect for Jesus' message of redemption through love and forgiveness that I don't feel I'm fit to call myself a "Christian." (fortunately, there is a church denomination that's happy to have a wretch like me as a member.)

Furthermore, many of the devout who are a part of mainstream religions are liberal. But let's not fool ourselves; the scary Fundies just love their holy war, and love to kill infidels.

That's not just sick, it's as sacreligious as anything I can imagine.

[tanyev]

85. You are right.

A lot of the people in my part of the country who go to church every Sunday do support this worthless president.

My quibble is not with my fellow DUers reaction to the article; I question the poll itself and the simplistic summary. I really would like to know what their sample group was. I would like to see an exhaustive break down of the results. I suspect that some type of pattern beyond frequency of attendance would emerge showing that certain types of "Christians" are more likely to support * than others.

[bunkerbuster1]

87. No, YOU are right.

I mean, yeah, like you say. The problem's with the "let's jump to jingoistic/simplistic conclusions about polling data" AP article. I'm sure that one could learn more than the bleedin' obvious/coulda asked any 5th-grader kind of conclusion that "evangelical Christians greater tendency to view the world in terms of good and evil, and <...> support <...> President Bush."

Actually, I know nothing of this "Public Agenda" group cited, perhaps I should learn more before posting on this thread.

[Canuckistanian]

15. And regular Republicans are more likely to trust the pResident

What does this prove?

If you're subjected to the same message day after day after day with no opposing viewpoint, ever, what would you believe?

[BamaBecky]

136. This proves that CONSERVATIVES are more likely to go to church?

Perhaps......but there are a few of us Democrats winking at other Democrats in those pews......lol
Bama

[Hissyspit]

18. Alternate Headline: "Poll Finds Hypocrites More Supportive of War In Iraq"

[Cha]

44. You got that right..

The worst kind of hypocrites..the blood of all the people who have been killed in Iraq is running through their hands.

[Hissyspit]

56. I always have to write my own headlines for most media stories. n/t

[Hissyspit]

57. You are right, too. Some hypocrites are worse than others.

Everyone is hypocritical to a certain extent. But some betray even the most basic logical basis of their "morality" for ulterior concerns and motives.

[bluestateguy]

19. I'm not interested in being a part of their "Holy war"

They can just count me out.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. Not at my church

The overwhelming sentiment is so liberal that the conservatives complain about being ignored. (AWWWWW!)

[Deja Q]

22. They didn't poll me.

I am a liberal.

I am a Christian (and probably far more true to the concept than many who claim to be Christian).

I am not for war as * makes it.

We need to work together. Not pit each other against each other.

Unfortunately, we're now in this mess and it's going to take a MIRACLE for things to turn around.

[journalist3072]

23. All Praise due to Allah.

We sent our sons and daughters to die in Iraq, in order that they might install an Islamic theoracy there!

[niallmac]

24. Do people think we are fighting the Crusades?

Onward Christian Soldiers? How does a Christian nation so unfailingly fall in lock step behind war? Of all the things this populace gets edgy about; gay marriage, abortion, the right to bear arms, flag burning but not war.
Someone out there probably knows of a good book that explains this country's' collective psychology and I would like to hear of it. I read War Is a Force Which Gives Us Meaning and it didn't hit the mark for me.
Is this country a little schizoid? Do we have a personality disorder? Are we in denial, da niall asks? Are we a sociopathic nation? I can't believe that we are. But one thing is for sure. Since our creation, this nation has dealt a lot of whoop ass on a lot of undeserving people in the world. Pat Robertson calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Chavez sticks in my consciousness. Chavez who is trying to defend poor people from capitalist hunger for oil and complete control...must die. Pat Robertson. None dare call him a radical cleric.

[grytpype]

26. The stupids are dragging this country down...

... it's time for the smart states to seceed, I am sick of this shit.

Let the Northeast seceed, it would make a great country.

[NJCher]

29. yes yes yes

It's going to come to that.


Cher

[grytpype]

40. Ok Cher...

Let's start forming the Committee of Secession.

I'll represent New York, you can represent New Jersey... who else is in?

[Cha]

47. I'm moving back to Hawaii in

a couple of years or I would be here to be in.

I have a feeling the West Coast would like to have a little country of their own after they flush arnold where he belongs.

[NJCher]

76. do we have a representative from Connecticut?

Step up and take part in this historical moment!


Cher

[SledDriver]

27. Who would Jesus bomb?

:nuke:

[Dervill Crow]

46. I have that on a bumper sticker. n/t

[ClayZ]

71. I saw a bumber sticker that said....

"After the rapture, can I have your car?"


heh heh!

[leftchick]

83. "You Can't be Pro-War and Pro-Life"

my bumpersticker for all of the Catholics at my church to see. :)

[Skittles]

31. brainwashing

that's got to be what it is

[not fooled]

33. No surprise here...

...they spend their lives being brainwashed to believe ludicrous BS...perfect training to be a * believer (no offense to REAL Christians)

[Cha]

34. Which is one reason I can

see that I never got into organized religion. I know the Universal Unitarian Church was against going in and bombing the shit out of Iraq. And even the head of the Methodist Church was against it..and Pope John Paul?..AGAINST IT!

So what's up with all the church goers?

[kestrel91316]

36. The Christofascists support this crusade, that's for sure.

[karynnj]

38. This is one of the dumbest polls ever

This study should come as no surprise. There are ample studies that show a correlation between chuch attendence and supporting Bush. It is also likely that there is a correlation between supporting war and those supporting Bush.

Although it is mind boggling to me, there are many very religious people who believe Bush when he says he reads the Bible every night. They trust him to do what is right.

[Dervill Crow]

43. Well, my dad always said people who go to church are stupid.

I used to just roll my eyes and ignore him. Now I wonder if maybe he wasn't on to something.

I rebelled against my parents by becoming a Christian. Funny, huh?

[jayctravis]

41. The Ultimate Powers must be so proud of them!

:sarcasm:

[cry baby]

42. That's about what they said about * before the election.

feckers...

Here, everybody wants to be seen as a "regular churchgoer", even if they don't go all the time. Therefore, they must agree with whatever other " regular churchgoers" say and do, otherwise their facade of being a "regular churchgoer" would be destroyed.

[Dervill Crow]

45. They should ask those of us who worship in circles.

Evangelical Christianity isn't the only game in town. I don't know too many pagans (like none!) who support the war.

[cry baby]

52. so true!

[54anickel]

49. Heh-heh, I'm thinking it goes something like this -

I've been having some serious doubts about this war on terror business. It just seems so costly in lives and resources, and what have we got to show for it, how will we know when we've "won"?

Oh my God! Look at this poll - why I'm thinking like one of those "un-churched" heathens!!! I need to straighten-up and fly right. Satan must be tempting me again, filling my mind with these ungodly thoughts, deceiving me into doubting our leadership. Certainly this poll was divinely inspired to alert me of my evil thoughts! :eyes:


OK, who consulted Public Agenda to do this poll?

http://www.publicagenda.org/aboutpa/aboutpa.cfm

Public Agenda is frequently consulted by members of Congress and by both Democratic and Republican Administrations. Public Agenda researchers and staff regularly partner with top business and policy organizations.

[Betty]

50. So the "Thou Shalt not Kill" commandment

must be rather inconvenient for these people. Unless we're talking about a fetus.

[Bo]

51. Its because Jesus would have bombed Iraq

[napi21]

58. That's because the preachers all support Shrub and what he's doing.

I only go to church once a week, as opposed to many of my Baptist neighbors who go 3 times a week. I go to the Catholic church on Sun. and really, the only thing I ever hear about the war, or Shrub is that we should pray for the safety of out troops. The Baptists on the other hand, constantly hear about the reborn Christian President and how he's fighting evil in the world. Pray for the success of our President, and spreading Christianity throughout this evil world!

It's a very sad thing that everyone can't respect all other religions and let them believe as they wish.

WE should pull all our troops out of all muslim countries and let the behave the way they choose. If they wish to fight amoung themselves, so be it! It's not our problem!

[Arkana]

59. Who conducted this?

The National Center For Figuring Out Really Friggin' Obvious Things?

[fujiyama]

62. LOL

Really this should come as no surprise.

[mark11727]

63. I guess that's why we gradually stopped going...

...and the 2004 elections killed church-goin' for me altogether (the church lady was suggesting how to vote -- "we" believe in this-that-and-the-other, and so do you, and remember to vote your consciences on election day).

[autorank]

64. This is a great thread. After reading the posts, I figured something out.

So Jesus was talking to the crowd and he said, "Here is the essence of my message, repeat after me: The King of Heaven is within you!"

The crowd paused and then as one said, "Right, Jesus, The Kingdom of Heaven is within you. Praise Jesus."

Jesus looked at the crowd and said, "No, No. The Kingdom of Heaven is within YOU!"

They responded quicker this time, "The Kingdom of Heaven is in Jesus, Jesus is our path to heaven."

Jesus looked exasperated, decided to try one more time, but by then, the crowd had hoisted him on their shoulders carrying him screaming, "Jesus is Lord, the Kingdom of Heaven is within him!!!"

The Kingdom of Heaven is with You!

[oioioi]

65. From "Life of Brian"...

Brian: I'm not the Messiah! Will you please listen? I am not the Messiah, do you understand? Honestly!

Woman: Only the true Messiah denies His divinity!

Brian: What?! Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right... I AM the Messiah!

Followers, en masse: He is! He is the Messiah!

Brian: Now, fuck off!

...long silence....

Arthur: How shall we fuck off, oh Lord?

Brian: Oh, just go away! Leave me alone.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Life_of_Brian

[autorank]

72. This made my day (((((LOL)))))

:rofl:

[genieroze]

67. It's called brainwashing. Church has become almost like a political cult.

[mzmolly]

114. Spot on.

:(

[expatriot]

69. Most of the fauthful...

tend to be more likely to accept indoctrination without questioning, are eager to accept a higher authority to which the definining of reality and truth is deferred.


With that said, most progressives in this country are "believers" . I don't know how, but they are.

[bitchkitty]

70. What, Satan worshippers?

When Jesus comes back, he's going to be soooooooooooooo pissed off at all these murdering bastards - and I'm not just talking about Bush, I'm talking about all the Bush supporters who along with him, support the murder of innocents.

[Rainscents]

74. I got polled the other day (Zogby) and it was about this issues mostly

and I thought is was odd.

I answerd, YES, I am very Christain, NO, I don't go to Church and NO, I do not support Bush and YES, I am democrat!

[mom cat]

75. Hell to the Prince of Peace!

[salin]

79. The impact of the politicization of the pulpit

if my minister speaks to it during service (as many these days do) - then I am more prone to feel guilty when my own sentiments start to drift - then add getting a weekly (or more) doese of it... and that is the sentment I try to hold on to.

Ole Pat and Ralph knew what they were doing back in the late eighties and early nineties when they began to make it okay - even expected that the pulpit be used to support political messages.

[JerseygirlCT]

81. The last paragraph

poll reflects evangelical Christians' greater tendency to view the world in terms of good and evil, and their support for President

makes me wonder just WHO they polled. If we're talking fundies/evangelicals, then I'm not surprised. If we're talking a true cross-section, then I am. It's certainly not the case for me, and I'm a regular.

[sidpleasant]

84. You nailed it

The poll seems to be making the assumption that only evangelical Christians go to church regularly. I've got relatives who go to Mass every Sunday. Some go to Mass during the week too. They're active in the church's social functions, a couple of them sing in the choir, and they all despise Bush and his war. Where are their views in this poll? What about devout Jews and Muslims who go to their churches regularly - were they left out of the sample as well?

[JerseygirlCT]

91. Many of the mainstream Protestant churches

have been against this war from the beginning as well.

I really do wonder about who was polled.

[hyphenate]

82. Oh, such compassionate conservatism!

:sarcasm:

[Stuckinthebush]

86. Worthless poll

I go to church every Sunday. My entire congregation is against this war. We are Unitarian Universalists.

My friend's entire congregation is against this war. They are Quakers.

My next door neighbor tells me that the majority of her congregation is against the war. They are Episcopalians.

My mother and father tell me that the majority of their congregation is agains the war. They are Presbyterians.

This poll assumes that all church goers are of the same stripe. Black and white thinking.

[Barrett808]

96. "No, you just winged him and made him a Unitarian."

Bart: When I'm feeling low, you know what always cheers me up?
Todd: Is it love?
Rod: Kindness?
Bart: Ooh, tough room. Videogames! Whaddya got? (grabs a
videogame off the shelf, and reads the title) "Billy
Graham's Bible Blaster?"
Rod: Keep firing; convert the heathens!
(cut to a pixilated video screen. Heathens cross the
street, as a Bible gun shoots the Holy Book at them. When
a heathen gets hit, he turns into a conservatively dressed
man with a halo)
(cut back to the boys)
Bart: Got him!
Rod: No, you just winged him and made him a Unitarian.
Todd: Look out, Bart! A gentle Baha'i!
(cut back to the video screen. A Baha'i, sitting cross-
legged and wearing a turban, floats past. Bart zaps him,
and turns him into another suit-wearing conservative)
(cut back to the boys)
Bart: All right! Full conversion! (puts his arms around Rod
and Todd) Thanks guys, this really cheered me up.
Video: Second Coming! Reload, reload!
Todd: Can we play now?
Bart: We are playing. We're a team.
Rod +
Todd: (pause) Yay!

http://www.snpp.com/episodes/BABF10

[Stuckinthebush]

99. Thanks for the laugh!

:D

[Barrett808]

101. Yeah, I think that's one of the funniest exchanges in the all the episodes

Go to the Simpsons Archive and search for "Unitarian". There are a couple of other light-hearted jokes. http://www.snpp.com/

[lonestarnot]

88. Then I am in favor of shipping them and their family members to fight it.

[Toots]

89. the more supportive they are of U-S foreign policy

Is anyone not supportive of US foreign policy? Just not what is currently being touted as our foreign policy. Pre-emptive warfare and all.... What message would we send to the rest of the world indeed. That is the right wing talking point for staying in Iraq. It should be countered with what message are we currently sending the rest of the world and why don't they like our message?

[CGrantt57]

90. So, what they're really saying is...

The religiously brainwashed have been easily brainwashed by the Sofa King Administration.

Sofa King?

Yeah...as in...George Bush is Sofa King We Todd Did.

[defiant1]

93. Big surprise here....

Wow, this poll finds that easily led people are easily led in other areas of thought as well.

:wow:

[Lilith Velkor]

98. Many will come, crying "Lord, Lord,"

and I'll be like, "Fuck off, I don't know you people!" -- that's a paraphrase from Revelation.

So no, the Bible doesn't say attending church thrice a week makes up for being a greedy, bloodthirsty fuckwad, but people are going to pretend it does anyway, as they always have.

[shantipriya]

100. Faith based war

Ya! as long as someone else's children and relatives are doing the fighting and dying!!

[Roland99]

102. Shouldn't this be in the "Well, DUH!" category?

Sheep flock together.


And I don't mean that all regular worshipers are sheep. There are some progressive Christians, etc. that do still use their grey matter. It's just they're either outnumbered or just not as vocal.

[mapleboard]

103. Hypocrites

So, then this is proof that all these pro-lifers are hypocrites! These worshippers are against abortion, but for a war of lies that has killed 2,000 American troops, disabled tens-of-thousands of American troops (it will be hundreds of thousands, after they come home and get "Gulf War Syndrome", which is a euphemism for disablities from Depleted Uranium), and killed tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians (not insurgents, civilians!).

These hypocritical zealots have ZERO credibility.

[VegasWolf]

105. Wow! The people that their ministers call sheep can be led easily!!!

Who woulda' thunk it!!

[patcox2]

106. Regular worshippers more inclined to follow authority figure.

Regular worshippers were more likely to vote for Bush, and they are obviously still following him. Its not that religion makes one warlike, its that religion makes one more docile and trusting of authority.

[VegasWolf]

108. Yes, some people simply need others to tell them what to do.

This lets one off the hook of personal responsibility. All
they have to do is go to confession, or get saved, or believe in
Jesus, or kiss a snake, or roll on the floor and all of their
failings are miraculously erased!

[WhoWantsToBeOccupied]

116. ...unless you were abused as an altarboy

(I was never even Catholic and know this problem must exist in every religion/denomination. Just pointing out that not all religious leaders are deserving of trust.)

[patcox2]

134. Au contraire.

And I never said that they desrved trust. I said that the people who go are followers and too-easily give their trust.

As for abused alter boys, they nevertheless tend to be respectful of authority. In fact, many have used the legal theory that they were in awe of and afraid of the authority of the catholic church as their excuse for not filing suits within the applicable statute of limitations.

[soleft]

110. Stop the Crusade I want to get off

[noonwitch]

112. I guess it all depends on which weekly worshippers we're talking about

I attend church weekly and only miss if I'm out of town. I was not supportive of the war in Iraq (Afganistan is a separate matter, imo)prior to the invasion. I am supportive of the military and hope that something good can come of Bush's big mistake in Iraq, for the Iraqi people's sake and for the return of our troops.

It's very hard to pin down responses like mine for the sake of a poll. It was wrong to go to Iraq, but we're there now. I don't want to see more dead soldiers, nor do I want to see more dead Iraqi civilians, but totally withdrawing at this point will inevitably lead to the latter. Especially if Bush and CO let the Shia take over. They will slaughter the Sunnis (revenge for Saddam's treatment of them)in the name of Allah and completely subjugate women.

[Sparkman]

121. Pope Benedict XVI sounds completely diff. from *, which is a Jesus Man...

to me is obvious.
Mathew chapter 7, the words of the Lord written 2000 years ago, seem to exclude the presidents actions from the "fruit" and the "wisdom" clauses there.
Backslider may be a judgement on my part, but the president has little inspirational value for me. A shephard and godly leader should offer us abundant hope and the Lord should be exhalted in his deeds?

[mzmolly]

113. That's because they get the weekly dose of brain washing.

They're taught not to think/question in many churches. They call it "faith."

If only we could get these people to a local UCC. ;)

[leftofthedial]

115. iss a croosayd

and are gawd is betternair gawd praisejeezis

but yew heathun liburls wooden unnerstan

[PinkyisBlue]

117. Worship

Bush is the main reason why I have stopped going to church. I said to myself, "If this guy is a Christian, I don't want anything else to do with it." It didn't help that the church was leaning pro-Bush.

I still believe in God, but I don't believe what Bush believes. (I think he's a big phony anyway and probably reads SpongeBob cartoons during the church services).

[Sparkman]

120. Bush has the uniform, but no soldier. Bush has wealth but no wisdom. Bush

claims to know Jesus, to be born again, but read Mathew chapter 7, it will take you 5 minutes and you will see the master's proficy and his words will brighten your walk today.
taste this:
Jesus:"Ye have heard that it hath b een said, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth; but I say unto you, that ye resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Math 7:38

taste this
Ye have heard that it hat been said, thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; that ye may be the children of you Fatherwhich is in heaven... Math 7:44

You decide if the president and his neocon associates are Christ's men(Christian). When did they EVER sound like Jesus?

The wealth of the American oligarchy is tempting to partake, jobs & financial security and earthly pleasures abundant to all that march at work or in the battlefield, the THEIR drum beat. Read the word for spiritual sustinance and use fellowship for consolation and strength, because the world stress is harmful to the spirit and we need shields and swords and food of a higher quality.

[Sparkman]

118. "Christian Evangelical" Pat Robertson advocates assassinating Chavez:

Aug. 22, 2005
Pat Robertson, about Pres. Chavez of Venezuela:

"You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war. And I don't think any oil shipments will stop."


Written 2000 years ago,:

Jesus Christ, "Ye shall know them by their fruits" Math 7:16

Jesus Christ, "Beware of false profits, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Math 7:15

Jesus Christ, "And everyone that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand, and the rain descended and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell;and great was the fall of it". Math 7:26

[liveoaktx]

119. *****Hold up! WHERE IS THIS POLL?********************

I want to see the questions.
When I look on Public Data's site I see a poll from January about religion that says NOTHING about the war on terror http://www.publicagenda.org/research/research_reports_details.cfm?list=1

Then, there's a poll from this month but the questions ask nothing about one's religiosity.
http://www.publicagenda.org/research/research_reports_details.cfm?list=93

Maybe I'm missing the poll on the website but I want to see it, along with the questions that were asked and how they broke down religious groups. Right now it looks like that "news" is bogus.

[liveoaktx]

131. Here is the Link to the Public Agenda Poll

http://www.publicagenda.org/foreignpolicy/index.cfm

If you look at the questions, you'll see that in the questions themselves they never ask about religion, but, like Zogby, do ask at the end about church-going regularity and whether someone is an evangelical Christian or not.

In fact, if you read the results, you'll see that most Americans aren't happy with the view of Americans abroad (p 7)-Look at page 10 that shows MOST people want diplomacy and not military options with Iraq.

even Fox's MISLEADING article that has cherrypicked something that ISN'T EVEN IN THE SURVEY RESULTS that I can find has a quote that IF there are churchies that support the war, it's the EVANGELICALS, not church-goers in general. But at least so far, by doing a searcy, I can't find any stats in the poll results in which they draw the conclusion Fox News does.

I recommend you read the poll results and the questions and then you tell ME if you think Fox is trying to push a particular view without regard to what the poll REALLY is saying.

[Az_lefty]

123. shrub is the reason I stopped attending S. Baptist Churches...

when I returned from Iraq in Dec 03' the last thing I wanted to hear was some "hooah" BS about the shrub being a real Christian and we should do whatever he wants. He's not genuine, he wears his faith on his sleeve for self gratification. Those of his ilk are not uncommon but it amazes me how easily regular Church going people can be deceived.

[Pirate Smile]

135. Can you give me some insight into the Southern Baptists. It seems

like they (the clergy, not necessarily the parishioners) have become an arm of the Republican Party - or they are trying to make it into one.

Am I wrong to get that impression? I know it is easy to get a false impression from the media.

[Carolab]

124. I suppose they have "absolute moral authority" on their side....

since a lot of these people believe that God speaks through the supreme commander Bunnypants....

Ummm, what does God think of lying and killing, especially in God's name?

[hatrack]

127. Regular worshipers of Bush?

Or did they mean people who go to churches & synagogues & such?

[boddhi]

128. deleted - wrong topic

[ElectroPrincess]

129. Not this one ...

I attend Mass every week and observe the Holy Days of Obligation, but I'm very much against continuing this occupation in Iraq.

I have little to no respect for these polls. It seems slanted to please the right wing spinmeisters.

Yes, liberal Christians do exist, but we're not the one's preaching hate. We're the ones quietly doing what needs to be done within the parish and outreach programs.

I'm a strong believer in the separation of Church and State. When my RW fellow parishioners begin "talking up Bush" I have to leave the room. No, it's not worth it because many of these people are NOT capable of listening to others who oppose them.

[Initech]

130. Gives new meaning to the phrase "Onward "Christian" soldiers", doesnt it?

And it's no mistake that I put the word "Christian" in quotation marks, either. These people are insane.

[Solly Mack]

132. snicker

well, duh

[tgnyc]

133. Bring on the Rapture, baby!

[daleo]

137. Churches don't really aid the religious impulse

At least that's been my experience. I rarely feel less religious than when I sit in a church. I suppose it is the hypocrisy that surrounds the formal structures of churches that does it. For the most part, DIY religion observance has struck me as less harmful than formal religion, regardless of what the pope says. This story is a good example of the phenomenon.

[Robeson]

139. New Poll: Regular church goers favor dunking ordeal.