Swastikas Burned Into Jewish Family's Yard

[Behind the Aegis]

LAWRENCEVILLE, Ga. (AP) -- Vandals burned swastikas and obscenities into the lawn of a Jewish family, splattering windows with eggs and fouling the front porch of their home.

Two swastikas were spray-painted in the road in front of Ginger Ragans' two-story home Sunday and a third was etched onto her lawn, along with the word "Fascist" and an obscenity scrawled in the grass. Her trees were draped with toilet paper and someone had urinated and defecated on the porch.

Gwinnett County police are investigating the vandalism in the town northeast of Atlanta and are uncertain whether to classify it as a hate crime, spokesman Darren Moloney said.

Ragans, 36, who has lived in the neighborhood for 10 years, said the incident likely was the work of neighborhood teens retaliating against her for her work as a neighborhood liaison for a community watchdog program.

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[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Uncertain whether to classify it as a hate crime?

How fucked up is that?

[Mairead]

9. If it was aimed at her as a person rather than at her as a Jew

then it's not a 'hate crime' within the meaning of the act. She herself speculates that it was personal, you'll note.

[Village Idiot]

13. Please get off the pipe. Drugs make baby Jesus cry.

if it was aimed at her as a person, and not as a Jew, perhaps they shouldn't have burned a swastika into her lawn?

[Mairead]

22. What, you imagine they're deep thinkers or something?

It probably stretched them to their limits just to avoid drawing the swastika backwards. They're not bright enough to do something subtle like a ♀ or a magen david.

[unsavedtrash]

2. "are uncertain whether to classify it as a hate crime,"

[Cassandra]

3. "uncertain whether to classify it as a hate crime"??

I don't care if it is just a bunch of teenagers, it's still a hate crime.

[RubyDuby in GA]

4. Uncertain whether to classify it as a hate crime????

I swear to God, at this point, I'm looking for reasons to stay in this hellhole state. I cannot believe it. The fucking psychotic nutjobs that have taken over this state at every single level and allow this type of atmosphere to exist where people can't tell if this is a damn hate crime have just about driven my from MY home.

Truthfully, just how bad are Vermont winters?

[Seabiscuit]

14. Don't you just LOVE the South?

[Behind the Aegis]

17. I do!

There are many bad things in the South, but there are some wonderful things and people there too!

Shit like this isn't limited to the South, as I am sure you are aware. Two weeks ago, two synagogues were vandalized a week apart with really horrible things. That took place in California. Of course, that is also where that nutcase shot-up a Jewish daycare!

Yes, the South is rife with hate, but there are some great things there, too.

[RubyDuby in GA]

19. I love the South and I'm as Southern as the day is long, but

I have just about had all I can take from these asshole idiots who think W is god on earth and that it's their way or the highway.

I'm serious - how bad are Vermont's winters?

[Behind the Aegis]

20. Hi y'all fellow Southerner!

:) I understand your feelings. I am in Oklahoma (originally from the South, though) and it's just as bad. I have no idea about Vermont winters, one of the few states I have still yet to see. Pop over to the state forums and ask a Vermonter (?). The great Southern trait of putting our loonies 'out on the front porch,' is a good thing and a bad thing. It's good because we know who they are. It's bad because everyone knows who they are and others think they are the representatives of the South.

[RubyDuby in GA]

21. Hey there

It's getting really bad in GA. We've had a ton of people move in and "southern hospitality" has gone completely out the window. If you speak to someone on the street just to be friendly (like a hello or good morning) they look at you like your nuts or think you're hitting on them and want to follow you to your car. Even out of the metro Atlanta area, where I live, people have gotten a thousand times more rude within the last 5 to 8 years. It's overcrowded (this state has never met a developer $$$$$ it doesn't like) and the whacked out nutjob fanatics have taken over our state and local governments and they foster an atmosphere of indifference, secrecy and hatred.

It's really getting bad here.

[Behind the Aegis]

26. I hear ya!

I was in Atlanta this past May. It was very different than when I was a boy living there. The attitude is indeed VERY different. There are still pockets of "Southern charm," but it (Atlanta, in particular) is beginning to change, and not for the better. However, Atlanta still hosts one of the largest Jewish communites in the US.

[RubyDuby in GA]

28. True, true

Which is why I feel really bad for the Jewish community since the Christian Taliban took over and it'll get even worst if Ralph Reed makes it into the Lt. Gov seat.

If that happens next November, the very next day I'm putting my house on the market.

[Seabiscuit]

38. "Sweet home Alabama"

No offense to all you current southerners...

By "the South", as I put, I obviously was referring to "the South" of the slavery days... the mindset of white southerners who have historically been bigotted, and who spawned the Ku Klux Klanners and their "Nazi" partners, who have been exported to all States. Sure they're in New England and Cali-forica, but they came from "the South".

This incident, unfortunately, reminded me, an old-timer, of all too many incidents in my youth in the 50's and 60's.

[MnFats]

29. C'mon up to Minn. It gets f•••in' cold but most of us are sane...

....allowing Norm Coleman to achieve high office notwithstanding.
....summers are nice.We got lakes and stuff.
....and only an occasional hate crime.

[Karenina]

33. Q: Truthfully, just how bad are Vermont winters?

A: Cold and snowy. Town Meetings are still all the rage. Lot's of world class music...

[President Kerry]

35. better than Georgia summers..

;)

[BootinUp]

5. If they classify it as a hate crime...

it will offend the sensibilities of many rich Georgian repukes.

[bleedingheart]

6. Gwinnet County...isn't the hoity toity northern suburb?

[Guckert]

7. Well they could have been trying to draw Tic Tac Toe boards and got

confused. DUH.
Now the shitting on the porch thing must be a Move America Forward member.

[Xithras]

8. Explanation of "uncertain whether to classify it as a hate crime"

Legally, it's not the symbols or words that make it a hate crime, but the intent and reasoning behind the people who did it. If a Christian Taliban beats up a gay man and calls him a "Fskign F**", that doesn't make it a hate crime because it already was one...the hate crime was the act of beating someone up simply because they were gay.

In this case, the use of the swastika wouldn't make it a hate crime. The hate crime would be attacking or intimidating ANYBODY with ANY symbols simply because they were Jewish.

So, here's where it gets tricky: The article makes it sound like the home may have been attacked by criminals because of the homeowners anti-crime activities. If they attacked her because of her activities and NOT because of her race or religion, then this may not qualify as a hate crime...irregardless of the symbols used.

The litmus test will lie in the determination of whether or not they would have reacted differently if she'd been Christian or an atheist. If they would have (or have in the past) attacked other peoples homes in a similar fashion, then this isn't a hate crime. If they singled her out for this treatment because she IS Jewish, then this is a hate crime.

So don't be so hard on the investigators for taking a little time with this one.

[sendero]

15. I don't blame the police...

... I blame the idiot legislators who made this law.

Exactly how is anyone ever going to prove what motivated these idiots? It is virtually impossible. To me, if the family is Jewish and someone uses the swastika, I say its a hate crime regardless of what the morons who created the law think.

If it was a black family and someone burned the N word on the lawn, it is a freaking hate crime, end of story.

I just love it :sarcasm: when people pass laws that are too clever by half, nothing is accomplished at all, which was probably their intention all along.

[Mairead]

23. "how is anyone ever going to prove what motivated these idiots?"

That's easy--do they go around doing the same thing to other Jews? If not, it's not a hate crime, it's personal.

It's really not that hard to figure out. Some thugs that lurk outside a gay bar and beat the crap out of the first non-weightlifter who comes out are clearly doing hate crimes. Thugs who lure the guy off into an alley and then rob him are doing plain crime.

[wickerwoman]

39. So your first hate crime is a freebie?

Isn't it impossible to prove "they go around doing the same thing to other Jews" unless they've been caught doing it before?

So the first time I beat the hell out of black guy just because he's black, it's not a hate crime because I haven't gone around doing it before.

[Mairead]

47. If you're not stupid enough to give yourself away, then yes, it has to be

a 'freebie'. Anything else makes nonsense of the distinction--like imputing premeditation to any act, no matter how apparently spontaneous, by holding that thought always precedes action even if only by milliseconds.

Hate crimes are only those in which all members of some group are interchangeable in the perp's willingness to assault them.

[Xithras]

25. Actually, I disagree with you.

Hate crimes are only a special category because they are intended to cause fear in the target community...a hate crime is a hate crime because it's driven by a hatred of what the victim represents, not the victim himself.

Hate crimes have always been tricky to define and, yes, hard to prove. But that is a GOOD thing because it prevents their abuse...hate crimes penalties are much higher than those for regular crimes, so it's essential that it really be a hate crime when someone is accused.

If a protestant beats up a Jew, that's not a hate crime (people fight all the time, for all sorts of different reasons). If a protestant beats up a Jew BECAUSE he's a Jew, that's a hate crime. This is the way the laws are written, and the way it should be.

[msmcghee]

31. This is actually an interesting question . .

You said, "Hate crimes are only a special category because they are intended to cause fear in the target community... "

If you disliked someone enough to vandalize their property as was done here . . you could just do the damage . . or you could additionally burn swastikas in their lawn if you knew they were Jewish.

Why would someone do that? I can think of several reasons.

a) You hoped the police would spend their time looking at neo-Nazi and white supremacy groups (if you were not one yourself) thereby decreasing your chances of being caught.

b) You wanted to increase the pain and psychological damage by attacking their very identity and not just their property - even if you had no feelings about Jews one way or the other.

c) You thought that "everyone hates Jews" so even if you didn't care about that yourself - this would (hopefully) bring down the wrath of the (Jew hating) community on them.

Although a) and c) are really stupid reasons, to think of b) might indicate a high level of personal hate coupled with some intelligence.

IMO if the act attacks their identity - it is a hate crime, regardless of whatever weird set of stupid or hateful motives was behind it. I also have a problem with the justice system parsing the fine points of someone's motives. Punish the act - which in this case was an attack on the victim's identity. Also, the attack undoubtedly caused fear in the target community, whether or not that was intended.

IMO for those reasons it was a defacto hate crime. Throw away the keys.

[Mairead]

48. I don't think that can work

You say: IMO if the act attacks their identity - it is a hate crime, regardless of whatever weird set of stupid or hateful motives was behind it. I also have a problem with the justice system parsing the fine points of someone's motives. Punish the act - which in this case was an attack on the victim's identity. Also, the attack undoubtedly caused fear in the target community, whether or not that was intended.

Do only certain people have 'an identity' that can be attacked? Burning a cross on someone's lawn--is that an attack on their identity? How can you tell? What if it's an X that's burnt instead?

[Orangepeel]

18. from a cursory reading, they may have been calling her a nazi

I admit I just read the summary posted, not the whole article, but I wonder if they knew she was Jewish.

She suspects that they vandalized her home because she was active in a neighborhood watch campaign and they burned the word "fascist" into her lawn. Where they claiming to be fascists or were they calling her a fascist?

Hey, I don't know, but there's no reason to suspect that the vandals were all that bright. :shrug:

[UncleSepp]

24. thanks, that actually makes sense

I'd been puzzling over why they'd write "fascist" in the yard. That's not something that fits the pattern of a racist putting swastikas and slogans on a person's property.

[marbuc]

10. The freepers have an interesting position:

Hate the Jew, love the militant, oppressive "Jewish" state

[MnFats]

30. the only interest the Freepers/faux Chrisitans have in Jews...

....is to convert them so as to bring on Revelation prophecy and the return of Jesus Christ.
.....As the prophet Yogi Berra used to say, "you could look it up."

[DemsUnite]

11. "Swastikas Burned Into Jewish Family's Yard"

Is this a hate crime? Hmmm, let me think about it...

:sarcasm:

[AspenRose]

12. This crap has GOT to stop

Racists and bigots have been enboldened by this climate the administration fosters. It is unacceptable and has GOT to stop.

[tom_paine]

16. Oh the Busheviks are getting ansty

They just can't WAIT for the generation for their Imperial Masters to create the climate where ALL PLACES are 1940s Mississippi and one doesn't need to be black to be treated like a N*****

(all one has to do is oppose THE PARTY)

I suppose one can;t blame them for being excited and itchin' to get going with the Final phase of the Bush Program.

Only problem for them is that all the generations born into Free America (1776-2000) have to grow old or die first, because in the end, they won't tolerate it (I hope)

But that won't stop them from hoping, and from growing antsy as well as straining their leashes.

They can see where things are going as clearly as we. They are COUNTING on current trends increasing.

[Zhade]

27. This increases under violent racists and bigots like the b*s* admin.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems this kind of thing in general is getting a lot worse a lot faster.

[Karenina]

34. Bingo.

[Zhade]

36. Hey, your son was in town!

But I missed him. :(

[Karenina]

41. Come visit us here!!!!

:hug:

[Zhade]

42. If only I could! Any idea how much that might cost?

I do get a yearly bonus, but this year it's probably going to be a trip to Vancouver, where I'm trying to relocate to.

I've never been to Germany, that I know of anyway (I was born in The Netherlands and have - well, have to renew, I guess - dual citizenship, but we left when I was 14 months).

Say hi to him for me!

[Karenina]

43. Will do!

It's a fabulous city! There are bronze plaques in the sidewalks that we never forget our neighbors who perished...

[Zhade]

44. If I can, I will take you up on it someday.

Mark my words! :)

[flaminbats]

32. 10 cowards for every hero..

Crap like this reminds me why we have a Second Amendment!!

Jefferson knew that public officials are simply too chickenshit to protect our civil liberties. All citizens have a right to protect their life, liberty, and property..regardless of how UNCHRISTIAN or POLITICALLY INCORRECT it seems for the moral majority. Unfortunately too many police just never gave a shit..unless a member of that Jewish family shoots a vandal in self-defense, then "but wait..ain't that murder, JUST LIKE ABORTION IS??!!??" :freak:

The more we stand together in times like this, the less inbred bigots can do. :grouphug:

[Andromeda]

37. Gee, what do you need to classify it a hate crime?

This is classic.

This kind of retaliation should be treated more seriously than an ordinary vandalism.

[wickerwoman]

40. Sad on so many levels,

not least of which is they wrote "fascist" as a perjorative on _her_ lawn. Next to a swastica.

You'd think they'd at least get their vaunted "white" history right.

Dumbasses.

[Rich Hunt]

45. well, maybe the lady is right...

Maybe someone hired these kids to harass this woman.

When I was in school, we had a couple of kids who were walking around with swastikas on their folders. The teachers questioned them about it in class, and they didn't even know why they were doing it....someone must have put them up to it.

[bribri16]

46. Sick!! sick, sick. n/t

[BenDavid]

49. Hate Crime

pure and simple. When these boys burned swastikas and obscenities into the lawn this was exactly meant to be hatred. Now if these boys had rolled their lawn with toilet tissue and egged the cars windshield, then you have a prank. When you take it to what they did this would in my opinion be classified as a "hate crime", and should be charged with that crime if the state of "jawjuh" has such a law on the books.

Oh I am reminded on how to tell the difference between a "good ole boy" and a "redneck"(as these boys).... Well the good ole boy raises livestock. The red-neck gets emotionally involved".

[David Zephyr]

50. I hope everyone who questions "hate crime laws" will question themselves.

This sort of shit is not vandalism.

It is a cruel and hateful message latent with threat to drive fear into more than just the homeowners, but toward the entire Jewish community.

Hate crime laws are needed. They need to be enforced.