Jefferson Parish (New Orleans) Under Martial Law

[doxieone]

WWL web site

>Jefferson Parish under Martial Law. No one being allowed into New Orleans.

>Levee breaches are causing rising water in New Orleans. WWL-TV studios are being evacuated due to rising water in the French Quarter. WWL will begin broadcasting from LSU as soon as possible and we will be attempting to stream on the web.



(will be back with link)

BACK. I can't link as the WWLTV web site seems to be down. Maybe someone else will have better luck.

[doxieone]

1. Please anyone that can get the link...

Please post. I don't want to be guilty of posting such info without link support.

[yodermon]

2. it's on the main page right now

http://www.wwltv.com/

no permalink.

[doxieone]

3. Thanks.

[I concur]

4. ...anybody hear about Plaquemines Parish?

Please, I have relatives there.

[u4ic]

49. Welcome to DU, I concur

I hope your relatives are safe :hug:

[Krupskaya]

96. I am so sorry....

...but according to someone who lives there, in a story that will run in my newspaper tomorrow, the entire parish is underwater and completely devastated. It bore the brunt when the storm made landfall.

[Lori Price CLG]

5. "The Government has declared martial law in New Orleans."

News Update from Citizens for Legitimate Government
30 August 2005
http://www.legitgov.org/index.html#breaking_news

Martial law has been declared in New Orleans. "There are no civil rights in the city of New Orleans... anyone caught on the street after dark will be arrested." --Shepard Smith, Fox news broadcaster, live on Fox News.

(link forthcoming...)

Lori Price

[paineinthearse]

6. Was there a noticable bulge in Mr. Smith's pants as he read these words

from the teleprompter?

[rodeodance]

12. he is an absolute J@@@

[Mr Rabble]

7. I hope this is a joke.

[SoCalDem]

9. Nope.. this is the perfect "test case" for it..

Things will get ugly.:(

[NV Whino]

8. Are we surprised?

[bluestateguy]

10. Conservatives are fine with martial law if it's in a majority black city

But declare martial law in the suburbs, exurbs or rural white America and you'd hear them scream bloody murder.

[raccoon]

11. You are absolutely right on that. nt

[Moloch]

93. Jefferson Parish is mostly-white suburbs...

NT

[QC]

99. Oops!

I guess people shouldn't be pontificating on things they know nothing about, not that ignorance ever stopped anyone around here from pontificating.

[knight_of_the_star]

91. By who?

And if they do that, where will the put them?

Realisitically, enforcing that is going to be a bitch, I am willing to bet ANY cops in NO are busy working on SAR and what disaster relief they can provide, what would they have to spare to enforce that?

[meganmonkey]

13. So, martial law in a town with NO electricity, phones, communication.

Yet these folks will be at fault for not having heard the news about martial law?

How does that work? What's the point?

[rodeodance]

14. this is what happens when we have no national planning for disasters

such as this. Sad. I hope no one gets hurt/shot.

[Endangered Specie]

15. How are you going to enforce any law with the place underwater?

If the levee breach is as bad as it sounds, the place is going to flood bigtime

[anotherdrew]

46. helicopter gunships of course with infrared sights

[shanti]

77. time to get out the

handy dandy crowd control weapon just developed:-(

[Francine Frensky]

16. Anybody watching this on Fox/CNN?? Things worsen...

Even Shepard Smith seemed scared on Fox, he's gettting out of NO. If you've seen CNN you've heard the fear in Jeanne Meserve's voice....from the pictures they've shown, given that they say the water is rising and nobody knows why...this is a very, very serious situation.... we may lose thousands of people, can't imagine the total property destruction and the months to recover.

[rodeodance]

17. Fox newscasters are flying out by helicopter they said. they are the

lucky ones!!

[doxieone]

19. So how long will it take George to take a helicopter ride over..

the damage??? It would seem today would be a good one.

But, I know he wants to set up some photo ops to go with it, so I guess it won't be today.

[fleabert]

28. I am guessing it will take closer to a year...nt

[bribri16]

18. So now it will be "legal" to shoot "looters" no matter what? stinks n/t

[tuckessee]

95. It's legal to shoot ANYBODY!!!!

As long as you're with the government.

I fear they will use lethal force at the Superdome when they finally panic and try to leave or riot.

[Fleshdancer]

20. what happens if people get arrested? are the jail cells above water?

this is ridiculous. How will the people find out they are under martial law? Do most people even know what that means??

[Mithras61]

21. In response to those asking about notification re: martial law...

The usual method is to have vehicles with loudspeaker assemblies cruise through the area announcing that martial law has been declared and that curfew at x:xx o'clock will be enforced. The message is repeated continuously as the vehicle moves about. In areas where flooding is the source of the problem, flat-bottom boats and similar vehicles are used.

What concerns me the most is who will enforce it? LA Nat'l Guard is in Iraq, and unless I'm mistaken Posse Comitatus prevents use of US military (Army, Reserves, Marines, etc) from being used for law enforcement. They can be used for emergency relief efforts (as laborers, etc.), but not as law enforcement.

Edited to add: Posse Comitatus supposedly applies to Coast Guard as well as to the other branches of the military.

[Winston702]

27. Posse Comitatus

"I'm mistaken Posse Comitatus prevents use of US military (Army, Reserves, Marines, etc) from being used for law enforcement."

Posse Comitatus is a provision in the Constitution/Bill of Rights. Martial Law is a suspension of the Constitution/Bill of Rights, therefore Posse Comitatus does not apply to the situation at hand.

[Mithras61]

29. You need to look further...

From http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm

20 Stat. L., 145

June 18, 1878

CHAP. 263 - An act making appropriations for the support of the Army for the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, eighteen hundred and seventy-nine, and for other purposes.

SEC. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section And any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment.

10 U.S.C. (United States Code) 375

Sec. 375. Restriction on direct participation by military personnel:

The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.

18 U.S.C. 1385

Unless the U.S. Congress has declared martial law, or has acted to suspend Posse Comitatus in this case, Posse Comitatus still applies.

[Bill McBlueState]

35. citation?

Can you cite a piece of the Constitution, federal law, anything that provides for the Constitution or any of its amendments to be suspended?

I bet the neocons would love it if an urban legend started going around that the Constitution could be suspended under certain circumstances.

[MildyRules]

36. Check your history

Re Abe Lincoln then get back to us...

[Mithras61]

39. You'll notice in my citation that the act was passed AFTER Mr. Lincoln...

and was intended in part to head off additional abuses such as those percieved to have been done by Lincoln.

[MildyRules]

41. You'll notice I wasn't replying to you

[Winston702]

40. Citation

n. a system of complete control by a country's military over all activities, including civilian, in a theoretical or actual war zone, or during a period of emergency caused by a disaster such as an earthquake or flood, with the military commander having dictatorial powers. In the United States martial law must be ordered by the President as commander-in-chief and must be limited to the duration of the warfare or emergency. It cannot result in a long-term denial of constitutional rights, such as habeas corpus, the right to a trial, and to free press.

[Mithras61]

43. So what you're saying is...

that I'm right in that Posse Comitatus applies, since Shrub hasn't declared martial law there. The LA governor can call it martial law, but all he can call up are LA NG troops (although in this case, he's being aided by another state's NG).

[Winston702]

45. Reply

The simple fact that Martial Law has been declared means that the military is in charge. Therefore, Posse Comitatus has been suspended for a finite period of tme

[Mithras61]

48. To suspend Posse Comitatus requires an act...

of either the U.S. Congress or the President. It cannot be suspended by a state governor.

[donheld]

38. Welcome to DU Winston

:hi:

[happyslug]

50. Two Concepts, Posse Comitatus and Habeas Corpus.

Habeas Corpus can be suspended during an "Invasion or Rebellion" Article 1, Section 9, Paragraph 2 of the US Constitution). This is the only time were any right can be restricted (i.e. you can be detained without trail for the duration and notice is requires an "Invasion or Rebellion" not just being at war).

Posse Comitatus (Latin for "the force of the country") is the common law doctrine that the County Sheriff can call into service any able bodied person to help him enforce the law and keep the peace. What is called the Posse Comitatus Act is a law prohibiting the Navy, Army, Air Force and Marines from acting as part of that "posse". What the Posse Comitatus Act did was that unless there is a Federal Law permitting regular armed forces to participate in law enforcement they are prohibiting from even joining into a "posse" even if asked or ordered to do so by the County Sheriff.

The Posse Comitatus Act came out of the "Compromise of 1877". While not passed (and than passed over President Hayes's Veto) as part of the "Compromise of 1877". The spirit of the "Compromise of 1877" is seen in the act (Democratic Congressmen from the South voted overwhelmingly for the Act). During Reconstruction the South wanted to end Union Occupation of the South. The Occupation ended as part of the Agreement to get Hayes elected in 1877 (The election of 1876 had ended in a deadlocked). The subsequent dispute was even worse than the debacle of the 2000 election but a compromise was reached between the Parties which ended the debacle). As part of that Compromise the Federal Troops were withdrawn from the last Five Southern states still under Occupation. Four years later the Democrats passed the "Posse Comitatus" act prohibiting the use of the Army or any member of the Army from joining any policing Activity. In 1947 as part of formation of the Department of Defense the law was changed to add the Navy, Air force and Marines to the list of Services covered by the Posse Comitatus Act (The Coast Guard does NOT come under the Posse Comitatus Act).

Thus the real issue under the Posse Comitatus Act is there a federal law permitting the use of Federal Troops in this situation? The President has the power to send troops to quell any rebellion or riot if requested by a Governor OR if the President deems such intervention necessary. Thus Bush could send in Regular Army forces into New Orleans if he wanted to, nothing in the Posse Comitatus Act prohibits Bush from doing so.

For more on the Posse Comitatus Act:
http://law.wustl.edu/WULQ/75-2/752-10.html
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/cc/baker1.html
http://www.au.af.mil/au/aul/bibs/posse/posse.htm

[Mithras61]

51. Sorry I used "Posse Comitatus" to refer to the act instead of...

the specific application the Act prohibits, but in my defense, this is a common usage.

As the act itself states, it requires an act of Congress to suspend it, unless the Constitution provides for the specific use requested. I'm not a Constitutional scholar, but as far as I know, it doesn't allow the use of Federal troops to enforce State declarations (of emergency or otherwise)...

[happyslug]

55. Lincoln Suspended Habeas Corpus WITHOUT CONGRESS

And that was upheld by the Supreme Court. The Constitution does not say who can suspend the Writ of Habeas Corpus during an invasion or rebellion, just that it can be suspended (and Congress can NOT suspend it when they is NO invasion or Rebellion). Thus Lincoln said he could do it and suspended the Writ.

[Mithras61]

84. And the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 was partially in response to that!

It states quite clearly that only CONGRESS can suspend it. But even allowing that the president can do so, the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 still applies here as only the governor of Louisiana has declared this a disaster area.

[happyslug]

94. Confusing the two again

The Posse Comitatus act did NOT address the issue of Habeas Corpus, only the use of FEDERAL TROOPS TO HELP LAW ENFORCEMENT. Minor distinction but an important one.

[stanwyck]

22. Don't worry

The National Guard will take care of everything. Oh, wait, seems those guys (AND their equipment) aren't available. Apparently, they're out of town. Something about a war in Iraq.

[Oreo]

23. WDSU just confirmed New Orleans is under martial law

Just announced on their stream. I've seen this mentioned in a couple posts but this is big news.

http://www.wdsu.com/news/4908558/detail.html

LATEST NEWS

# For shelter information, call 1 [phone]; Web site

# Preliminary damage estimate: $26 billion

# Martial law imposed in New Orleans

# Nearly 1 million Louisiana residents homeless after Hurricane Katrina

# Mayor Ray Nagin: 80 percent of New Orleans is underwater. Water 20 feet deep in some places

# More than 80 feared dead in Mississippi

# 200 people stranded on rooftops in the Lower Ninth Ward, including 20 police officers

# People who evacuated told NOT to come back to city

# Preliminary reports show at least 20 buildings in the city have collapsed

# The water is not safe to drink across New Orleans.

# Metairie, Slidell and Houma are virtually underwater. Rescue officials were still trying to get to people who were trapped in their homes Tuesday.

# All public utility services are expected to remain shut down in the short term due to damage from the storm. Hundreds of thousands of people are without power across southeast Louisiana.

# President Bush promises extensive help for Hurricane Katrina victims to get their "lives back in order."

# 4,000 National Guardsmen were mobilizing in Memphis and would help patrol New Orleans streets

[Mistress Quickly]

24. from WWLTV.com

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

10:15 A.M. A spokeswoman describes Jefferson Parish as a "very dangerous" place. Jackie Bauer says there's gas leaks everywhere, water needs to be boiled, there's no commercial power, no pumping stations and the water's toxic.

And there's still some deep water in some neighborhoods. Bauer says there are other dangers -- snakes in the water, other vermin, loose dogs and cats everywhere. She says -- quoting now -- "We kind of have to fight for survival with them." - Associated Press

[hnsez]

25. I bet they never lift it.

Florida has been under marshall law ever since 9/11

[slackmaster]

31. Mmmmmmmmmkay

:tinfoilhat:

[hnsez]

100. read the executive order

http://sun6.dms.state.fl.us/eog_new/eog/orders/2001/september/eo2001-262-09-11-01.html

[slackmaster]

103. OK, if he hasn't declared the emergency over you're technically right

Thanks for the information. But this reminds me of a lot of the stuff on the books like blue laws that are not really in effect any more.

[MildyRules]

34. How is that different from martial law?

:-)

[maddezmom]

26. just heard it...they are talking about it right now on WDSU

10:30 a.m.: Martial Law Declared New Orleans is under martial law, according to state officials. It could be weeks before displaced residents are allowed to return. -- WDSU chief meteorologist Dan Milham

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/wdsu/20050830/lo_wdsu/2908361

[QuettaKid]

30. QUESTION: How RARE is it for this to be declared? nt.

.

[KittyWampus]

32. In This Situation, It Is The Best Possible Thing To Do

[maddezmom]

33. IIRC they did the same after Andrew hit FL

does anyone else have a recollection?

[demo dutch]

53. There is no choice, after Andrew it was total chaos, so NOLA

was pretty much expected! America at its finest

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

37. Actually, under these circumstances, I concur.

That is to say, if done correctly and within the proper guidelines. There's no way they can otherwise control the mayhem- not enough cops, and the National Guard seems to be otherwise engaged.

This city is drowning, and measures must be taken to protect whatever is left. And, IMHO, looters should be shot on sight. But that's just MY opinion.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DLnyc]

47. Law enforcement can't cure hurricaine damage.

Let's say I spent 10 hours on my roof, entire city is flooded, no food or drinkable water anywhere, 'authorities' didn't think, after 50 years of warnings that this could happen, to make a plan for getting food and water in, let alone sufficient roads, buses, trains for evacuation and/or reliable storm proof shelters. Now, feeling frustrated and powerless, they declare martial law ("that'll teach that durn lesbian mother nature"). So drenched and near death from hypothermia I swim to a partially submerged supermarket and grap a bottle of Evian. But before I can get it open, some yahoo from Oklahoma shoots me in the back.

Maybe we should focus our efforts on getting help in, not on trying to protect property that will rot soon at any rate!

[demo dutch]

54. Sorry that's Bullshit, read the reports it's not about Evian, its jewelry

Same crap was going on during Andrew except they were also looting people's homes. It always the same element of the population

http://www.wdsu.com/news/4915310/detail.html
snip
NEW ORLEANS -- Looters in New Orleans are taking advantage of the destruction from Hurricane Katrina. At a Walgreens drug store in the French Quarter Tuesday morning, people were running out with grocery baskets and coolers full of soft drinks, chips and diapers.

When police finally showed up, a young boy stood at the door and shouted a warning -- and the crowd scattered.

A tourist from Philadelphia compared the scene to "downtown Baghdad. Nearby, looters ripped open the steel gates from the front of stores on Canal Street.

They filled industrial-sized garbage cans with clothing and jewelry and floated them down the street on bits of plywood and insulation.

[Wolf321]

86. You said it...

"Same crap was going on during Andrew except they were also looting people's homes. It always the same element of the population"

Yeah, the Republicans.

[demo dutch]

98. I'm not so sure that they were republicans at the time, more

likely those people don't vote or are even registered to vote.

[cmdrxog]

74. looting and shooting

You were shot because private looting is a moral and religious character flaw.On the other hand looting of pension funds, dedicated tax funds, highway funds, etc. etc. is fine as the beneficiaries of the looted funds are the guiding forces of our social and economic policies. I hope this helps explain your death.

[DLnyc]

80. Yes, thank you. Glad to know my death improved society's moral balance.

If I get to come back, and am lucky enough to come back as the spoiled brat son of a bigtime international criminal, perhaps I will focus on looting other countries of their oil and the American public of their social security instead of bottled water.

On the other hand, perhaps I will look in the mirror, get disgusted and blow my brains out.

link to story titled "In denial about the forces of nature":
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/louv/20050830-9999-lz1e30louv.html

[cmdrxog]

85. no rabbit holes for the elect

Should you come back as a fortunate one those closest to you, both friends and servants, will ensure nothing troubles your beautiful mind. Oil and Social Security will both be things of the past but surely the opportunity to exploit and diminish your fellow man will always be there.

[raccoon]

101. You said that right!

Welcome to DU, cmdrxog!

[cmdrxog]

104. Thanks raccoon, glad to be here. nt.

[Megahurtz]

88. And what's even more stupid is

try getting inside before curfew!

[The Stranger]

75. "Looters should be shot on sight."

Well, then if someone mistakes you for a looter and shoots you, we won't worry too much about it.

[ticapnews]

44. CNN reporting massive looting in New Orleans...

Hundreds of people. The producer on the phone said there were many people carrying boxes of diapers and baby formula, while others were going into shoe stores and actually trying on their Nikes to make sure they get the right fit...

I work for a security company and one of our customers in Biloxi had a window smashed - whether it was by the hurricane or looters isn't known - and the PD told us to tell the customer he could come board up his window, but to be aware there was a curfew in effect at sundown. They would broadcast his name so if he was stopped the PD would know who he was. We were never able to reach the owner though, since phone service was completely out in his area.

It's a shame all those National Guard personnel are watching this on CNN rather than being available to perform these rescues and patrol the impacted areas. This is exactly why we have a National Guard in place, and now they aren't here. Unfortunately, looking at the damage in NOLA (and with the damage coming up as the Mississippi rises thanks to all this rain) the city may still be under martial law when they come back from Iraq...

[demo dutch]

52. America at its finest! .. it was just a matter of time

[demo dutch]

56. NOLA - Looters Take To Streets; Conditions Deteriorate - WDSU news

It's America at it's finest!
snip
NEW ORLEANS -- Looters in New Orleans are taking advantage of the destruction from Hurricane Katrina.

At a Walgreens drug store in the French Quarter Tuesday morning, people were running out with grocery baskets and coolers full of soft drinks, chips and diapers.

When police finally showed up, a young boy stood at the door and shouted a warning -- and the crowd scattered.

A tourist from Philadelphia compared the scene to "downtown Baghdad.Nearby, looters ripped open the steel gates from the front of stores on Canal Street.

They filled industrial-sized garbage cans with clothing and jewelry and floated them down the street on bits of plywood and insulation.

http://www.wdsu.com/news/4915310/detail.html

[maxsolomon]

57. the poverty rate in america is 13%

looting is not unexpected.

[lebkuchen]

58. What is the poverty rate in NO in a natural disaster?

[enid602]

65. poverty

The poverty rate in New Orleans PRIOR to Katrina was 80%+. With all the wealthy gone, and with the remaining 'have-nots' suddenly having even less, I don't think the rest of us can even their plight.

[DLnyc]

81. poverty rate went up dramatically when those who owned cars left

and those without cars, without busfare and without funds or friends to support them for six months while the water is pumped out stayed, I guess.

Not saying all those who left are well-off. Obviously not. But those who stayed, those who got hurt worst, I think, are going include disproportionately large numbers of poor and powerless people.

[democrat in Tallahassee]

59. why not take the food? It's just going to ruin and what are people

supposed to eat? They've got to get food from somewhere.

[Orion The Hunter]

60. RE: Looting items

Foodstuffs in my mind are fine to take since they will be going bad quickly without any power (plus people gotta eat!). But the folks who are stealing clothes, jewelry and electronics are the ones who need to be apprehended.

[Karenina]

63. Why?

It's ALL insured. New Orleans may well die. And you're worried about "stuff?"

[lebkuchen]

70. True. A TV under ten feet of water isn't much good to anyone

[demo dutch]

71. That's not the point! During Andrew they were looting people's

homes, and it will just be a matter of time in NOLA as well.
It just wrong! But this too is the American way, if you don't take care of people look what happens.

[Laughing Mirror]

61. Democracy is messy

said Donald Rumsfeld, our man responsible for among other things the looting in Baghdad. Interesting the tourist from Phladelphia, who probably was not in Baghdad at the time, would remember it to draw that comparison.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

62. Hey, an Idea! Let's keep property safe for the rising floodwaters!

Just what does looting matter when the stuff is about to be swamped anyway?

[mountainvue]

64. Is the Dome being evacuated? n/t

[maddezmom]

66. looting....the real looting is being done by bushco

our treasury, our youth...etc. Yes looting stinks, but in the scheme of things, it's not something I'm too concerned about.

[Clark2008]

67. Stealing food during a natural disaster is NOT looting.

It's surviving.

I'm tired of hearing that these people are looting.

Stealing TVs and jewelry and stereos is looting. Stealing food that would otherwise go bad, anyway, is merely surviving.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

68. it will be flooded soon anyway.

[underthedome]

69. We'll they aren't just stealing food. There is massive looting going on.

nm

[Clark2008]

72. True, but I'm not gonna sit up here in my nice, dry office

and judge, either.

[demo dutch]

73. Well I am judging, because I've been there (during Andrew)

when people were looting left and right incl. their own neighbor's homes. I am sure the same thing is going on in that general area, and it's wrong!

[brooklynite]

76. 4:30 PM - LA Gov reports Superdome Generators threatening to fail

...from rising water. (Generators maintaining lights - not A/C)

Live coverage at http://www.wwltv.com/perl/common/video/wmPlayer.pl?title=beloint_khou&props=livenoad

[demo dutch]

78. WWLTV is live-streaming. Jeff Par. residents will probably be allowed back

in a week with identification only, but only to get essentials and clothing. They will then be asked to leave and not come back for one month.

http://www.wwltv.com/

[Mojorabbit]

79. I am watching this too

They are saying hundreds looting and the cops are just stopping them and taking their info and letting them go. No place to put them if arrested and low priority right now.

[Mojorabbit]

82. Well

a looter just shot a cop in the head.

[demo dutch]

83. Very disturbing to hear that a looter shot a cop!! What is the WH

waiting for, the same during Andrew it was utter chaos for several days. They need to send in the army immediately! Oops I forgot they're in Iraq!

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

97. New Orleans is a badass place-they need to secure the area or "else"

wait--all the National Guard are in Iraq--oh well--bring in anyone you can--the looters will steal everything that isn't bolted down-

[knight_of_the_star]

92. Sounds like the LA Riot

There were too many who did it, so they couldn't really do anything about it.

[Megahurtz]

87. OMG! What a Fucking Nightmare!

I don't know why, but I continue to get chills over my body, over this situation,
here on a hot summer day.:scared:

Not good, not a good feeling at all.:(

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

89. Earlier in this thread I made a statement about shooting looters

In my arrogance, I wasn't thinking clearly. I've been watching things develop all day, and I've had a chance to meditate upon my statement. I apologize. I was being an ass, and I admit it. I humbly retract my pissant statement about shooting looters. I was wrong.

[raccoon]

102. apology accepted, as far as I'm concerned anyway nt

[SlavesandBulldozers]

90. talk about kicking a city when it's down.

damn.

"People, stay in your submerged homes, do not leave. Lock your doors. If you do not have a door lock the hole in the roof up and do not leave."