New Orleans police kill (4) looters in shoot-out

[guruoo]

New Orleans police kill looters in shoot-out
Sun Sep 4, 2005 9:26 PM ET

By Mark Egan

NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - New Orleans police killed four looters who had opened fire on them on Sunday as rescue teams scoured homes and toxic waters flooding streets to find survivors and recover thousands of bloated corpses.

A fifth looter was in critical condition but no more details were available about the incident in a city where authorities are slowly regaining control after a wave of looting, murders and rapes in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

"Five men who were looting exchanged gunfire with police. The officers engaged the looters when they were fired upon," said New Orleans superintendent of police, Steven Nichols.

U.S. Army Corps of Engineers contractors working on a levee breach were fired on by gunmen but no one was hurt, said the Corps' Mike Rogers. It was not clear if the two incidents were connected.
<snip>
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-09-05T012658Z_01_BAU471101_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-KATRINA-DC.XML

[bemildred]

1. Story in transition still, I see. nt

[me b zola]

25. This is the fourth morph I have seen of this story today.

Doubt that this will be the last.

[NYC]

2. ...recover thousands of bloated corpses...

...recover thousands of bloated corpses...

That is what is most important here. Thousands of bloated corpses, many of whom died while FEMA thwarted rescue efforts.

[Poppyseedman]

3. Personally. I don't see a problem shooting looters

if the police are fired upon first.

That may be a little cold hearted, but at this point, there is no reason for someone to be looting unless it's for personal gain off the misery of others.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

4. Tend to agree with you

Maybe looters is the wrong word to use. Armed thugs might be better.

[LostinVA]

31. Looters is the word to use

Because that's what looting means:

Main Entry: 2loot
Function: verb
transitive senses
1 a : to plunder or sack in war b : to rob especially on a large scale and usually by violence or corruption
2 : to seize and carry away by force especially in war
intransitive senses : to engage in robbing or plundering especially in war
- loot·er noun



People taking food, water, shoes, etc. were NOT looters. It's why I keep arguing on here that the looters are criminals and suck, because they aren't trying to survive: they are victimizing the survivors.

Still, to have a city in the USA become like Mad Max is damned scray...

[Sarojin]

46. Unless they're scared of the police

I know I was when I lived there.

Due to a life of being victimized by the same people, based only on one's color and bank account. They may be trying to survive in terms of thinking they'll get beaten by the police, if not shot outright.

They have a shoot to kill policy in effect. If you're on the lamb, and you see a corrupt cop, isn't shooting first self-defense?

You folks act as though peace and calm have been restored and now it's just a deranged criminal element enacting chaos. I lived there, and I can tell you there was never and peace and calm in New Orleans. There was those victims of the repressive NO culture that carried firearms, there were those that were just plain thugs, and there were those that were just victims.

Neither you nor I can possibly understand what it is like to be victimized by "legitimate" authority for our lives and the lives of several generations before us. What's survival and what's crime when in the state of mind some of these folks must be in? I don't think it is fair to casually draw the conslusions you have reached.

[Heidi]

62. Exactly.

I'm tired of the MSM using "looters" as a euphemism for "they deserved it" without defining what _the authorities_ say "looting" is. In my opinion, looting does _not_ include survival necessities.

Fairness went out the window a _long_ time ago, before this whole mess even started.

[kestrel91316]

70. Scavengers vs. looters

The people who are getting food/water/essentials for survival where they can find them are SCAVENGERS.

The violent thugs who are robbing, raping, and stealing valuables are LOOTERS.

These definitions work for me.

[gorbal]

33. Yeah, I concur

Saying "The police shot looters" makes it sound like they were shooting those mothers stealing clothes for their kids. There are thugs out their commiting horrible atrocities.

I save critisism of police for when they really deserve it. they are commiting suicide and leaving the force in droves in New Orleans. Imagine how many life and death decisions they have had to make in a short amount of time. How would you live with yourself?

[guruoo]

7. The point is that the senario stinks (both of them)

First it was either one, four, or five of a group of 'gunmen' killed by police after they 'attacked' contractors crossing a bridge, now
it's four 'looters' killed after they 'attacked' police.
CNN headline news reporter on the scene said that police
'chased down' the bridge attackers before killing them.
Why in the world would a group of people deliberately attack an appairently heavly armed police escorted group of contractors?
And if the contractor-police group was ambushed,
as the 1st story seemed to imply, how did the 'good guys'
avoid any casualties? Same logic applies to the 'looting' story,
-or are both these incidents one in the same?

[auburnblu]

20. It's sad it happens

But a few days before this story, there were reports of rescue units being fired on. There are sadly during times like this evil thugs that seem to think continued chaos is a good thing.

[guruoo]

27. And sadly, during times...

like these there are * people that are trying like hell to
make these things go away.

[SmokingJacket]

69. Actually, the first story had police killing the AC o E guys!

Then it was "looters" who were killed -- they shot all five though only one had a gun.

[Silverhair]

77. Possible answers.

Solid info on this is in short supply, so I will admit that this is speculative. However, somewhere today, (I can't remember where so no link. Sorry.)I read that the gang members had AK-47s, or at least AK look-alikes. The average gang member is a terrible shot as they don't have a chance, thankfully, to practice and get good. Mostly they point and shoot, and miss, if the range is more than a few yards.

However, they tend to have a greatly exagerated level of self confidence and probably thought they could "off" some cops and gain status and bragging rights with the gang. (That was the speculative part.)

Once the shots were fired, the cops that I have seen on CNN have been armed with M4-A1s and similar weapons. The cops are trained with their weapons, and would have been much more accurate.

However, further information could quickly change my speculations.

[dansolo]

32. But I don't trust the reports

I really believe that the law enforcement people have a shoot-first-make-excuses later attitude. They probably came across looters who were most likely looking for food, water, clean clothing, batteries, or other supplies. If I were down there, that's what I'd be doing. The looters were probably fired up, and those who had weapons fired back.

[Sarojin]

45. Not really

If your dad beats you for your entire life, whether you actually did anything wrong or not, how likely are you to go ask dad for some help? And then add to that the fact that as you lay there almost dying for 5 days your dad was out at a party watching you cry for help on TV, laughing and mocking you.

The folks living in poverty in NO have been the victims of police corruption and brutality for decades. Do some research into the NOPD, and you will find case after case of police misdeeds.

Sure, the police need to defend themselves. But it is the socio-economic environment, in combination with systemic marginalization of an entire segment of the population, including police brutality and targetted discrimination against the poor, black population of the city, that has led some of the victims of that system to not entirely believe that the police/national guard are REALLY there to help them.

I am hearing stories of trigger happy cops randomly shooting people. Do we know conclusively that we're hearing the whole story? Do we know for sure that the police didn't shoot first, as happens so many times in New Orleans? And there's a great system of cover-up to go along with it. Who's going to believe a poor, violent, black drug addict's story over the most corrupt PD in the country? Apparently no one agreeing it's OK to shoot them without questioning the context and events leading up to this disaster...2 sides to every story. Any you hear from the NOPD are likely not entirely accurate when it comes to shooting blacks.

Maybe those that got shot deserved it, but it took generations of racist hate and discrimination to make them into a person like that.

[Peace Patriot]

53. Judge, jury and executioner, Poppyseedman? Somebody coming out of

a store with clothes, food, flashlights, a hamper, a radio, or even a TV, or even tires or motor oil--or whatever stores have--in a disaster...and you SHOOT them? Someone whom the Bush Cartel completely abandoned to drowning, dehydration, starvation, disease and death, because the Bush Cartel considers all poor to be disposable scum?

That is not okay with me, as a policy. I'm white, but I know enough about police and military forces to know that, when it comes to the poor, the black and the brown, the slightest excuse--a furtive hand movement, any object in hand, even a dirty look--and the person is dead on the ground in a pool of blood, and if there is no excuse, one will be invented, and if that's not good enough, evidence will be planted. And if THAT'S true in normal times--when police/military might be held accountable--can you imagine what may be happening in THIS situation?

What if someone ELSE fired the shot? What if the popping sound was some disaster-related noise? And what if the looter is crazed with dehydration, starvation, disease or drug withdrawal, after five days in hell?

What if others are dependent on this person for survival? This situation is NOT a riot or an "insurgency." The people there are NOT presumed guilty until proven innocent. All were trapped there because they're poor. They COULDN'T get out. They've seen horrors and terrible deprivation. And they furthermore have NO REASON WHATSOEVER to trust the police or the military--both from past experience, and from the current genocidal neglect.

The story in question has gone through 4 or 5 contradictory versions over the last 48 hours. The authorities are quite obviously trying to cover something up. (At first I thought it was innocent people, perhaps approaching this "armed convoy" for help, getting shot by trigger-happy and badly briefed troops, and the story that they were shot at was B.S. Right now, I'm thinking that the ORIGINAL version was true--and that some Halliburton/Titan-type death squad, trained in Iraq, SHOT Army Corps of Engineers personnel, for reasons unknown but probably very bad, and that looting had nothing to do with it.)

PLEASE bring skepticism to ALL STORIES of people being shot!

The Bush Cartel is desperate to put the blame elsewhere. The local authorities fought back in the news media and refused to be blamed. But the poor have no such access--and no media savvy--and are prime targets for blame-shifting. And the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, which, in the trauma and reality of this situation, were reporting more or less honestly TO THIS POINT, may be reverting back to their typical attitude of promoting whatever lies the Cartel wants out there.

PLEASE bring skepticism not only to all stories of people being shot, but also to all stories of the hurricane aftermath period, from this point forward. Dick Cheney (the real president) now has a financial stake in NO, with Halliburton's contract to rebuild the naval facility. He is directly profiting from this disaster. He's getting a million dollars a year in a severance package tied to their profits. Huge money is at stake--the Cartel is now draining our coffers dry in one final LOOTING of our public treasury. They were not interested in people dying. They only became interested when big money started flowing--from Congress, and also from generous foreign countries. THEY are the "looters." THEY are the hoodlums. THEY are the mass murderers of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis, and now, the murderers by neglect of many thousands of Americans. The liars are now back in charge. Beware, beware, beware of all corporate news monopoly stories of NO and the "reconstruction."

[Media_Lies_Daily]

54. Were they looting? I thought they were fired on for firing at.....

...Corps of Engineer employees.

Another point...unless you're actually in the middle of the mess in New Orleans, you might be better off not passing judgement on what people have done, and may be continuing to do, to survive.

[kitty1]

65. In any other situation I would agree with you about the looting, however

let's be real here. Any merchandise taken would have been written off and unsaleable anyway. Nobody is going to purchase items that were left over from a flood deluge. The stores for the most part, should be insured for this kind of thing. this is not your garden variety theft situation. People have literally gone mad, and are taking what they can to make up for their losses. Until we've been in that situation, we can't judge. It's not that cut and dry

[JustSayNO 2 Sheeples]

5. Lots of disinformation and changing stories

This is probably the same incident that was earelier reported: a group of armed men fired upon Army Corps contractors and were then shot by the police.

Bottom line, there are, by all accounts, lots of armed gangs working inside NO. We are no longer talking about looters looking for food. That time has past. Now we are talking about a group of people who assume the city belongs to them, like it was smoe big turf war.

I gotta be on the side of the NOPD at this point.

[guruoo]

8. But wouldn't an armed gang be more likely...

to look for a victim they wouldn't expect to be
armed to the teeth?

[Zynx]

26. New Orleans gangs HATE New Orleans police

Hurricane isn't going to make them all just get along.

[President Kerry]

40. gangs and police rarely get along..

unless you're in my native Russia, that is. lol

[jody]

6. Most of the good guys have left NO so kill the SOBs if they fire on cops.

[RightSightBrightLite]

Reuters: CORRECTED:New Orleans kill looters as body hunt gains pace

included in this report from a few minutes ago are these cold, hard facts:

from the news report
CORRECTED: New Orleans kill looters as body hunt gains pace By Mark Egan
2 minutes ago



NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - New Orleans police killed four looters who had opened fire on them as rescue teams scoured homes and toxic waters flooding streets to find survivors and recover thousands of bloated corpses.

<>

Coast Guard helicopters hovered over devastated neighborhoods and continued to pluck survivors from roofs. Some brave residents joined the rescue efforts and spoke of horrors in the deep and muddy waters.

In New Orleans' notoriously poor 9th district, police launched search missions with small speed boats to find both the living and the dead.

The tips of roofs poked out from the water, which bubbled from burst gas mains, and, in one spot, a swelling corpse floated on flood waters. Law enforcement officials advised reporters not to go close.

"It's about to pop at any minute. And you don't want to be there when that happens," one officer said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050905/ts_nm/katrina_dc

not proud of posting this, but we need to record the facts

before those harmed and us affected can recover with authentic honesty we must understand and KNOW the depths of what has been wrought and how falseness, guilt and secrecy is trying to keep reality & truth from it's very own citizens, as if regular people, who know better are too scared to say, No Business As Usual, ENOUGH of this malthusian, manifest-destiny, chauvanistic superiority and your pain, my gain 'mask' WE Sapient Humans repel the curse of predation-tendencies, let's maximize the characteristics of Humans to mold a Predator-Species ? The Planet is speaking to us and whispering, sometimes screaming that, THAT IS NOT theway

[expatriot]

9. What happens when a body "pops?" nt

[minkyboodle]

10. as I understand it

the corpses swell up in the heat and basically split open. Happened to victims of the labor day hurricane of 1935 according to wikipedia. really awful :(

[skooooo]

12. MINKYBOOOODLE!

hi ya!!! remember i spotted you a while back with Brak's favorite saying!! :)

[minkyboodle]

14. there is a doodle in my noodle

I can't deny it :silly:

[FlaGranny]

42. The body is gas-filled,

and the gas is released with all the bacteria it contains. Very unpleasant.

[skooooo]

11. eewww is this for real?

[two gun sid]

15. Yes, it happens.

[pursuivant]

21. It's incredibly gross (graphic)

A dead body swells due to the buildup of gasses produced by bacteria feeding on the decaying flesh. Eventually, the pressure inside gets so bad, and the tissues get weak enough, the body splits open. This spills the rotten innards inside the abdominal cavity and releases an unbelievably foul cloud of gas. Technically, the smell is mainly due to two chemicals, call "putrescene" and "cadaverene," which ought to give you a vivid description of exactly what the smell is like. I'm glad I've never had to deal with it in person.

[Oreegone]

55. When I was a kid

We would go out to our friends house on a cattle ranch. After a blizzard, they would lose a few cattle and they would pay us kids to go poke a hole in them so they would not explode. The explosion is natures way of not leaving one big mess. It is the rotting process that makes gas accumulate in the body cavity, a form of fermentation you might say.

[NickB79]

57. I've seen what happens to a pig when it "pops"

One summer a really big sow pig died in the barn. We towed her out towards the end of the driveway with a tractor so that the rendering plant guys could come pick her up. Well, they were late. Really late. It was a small-town operation, they only had one dump truck to use, and it had broken down earlier in the week. After 5 days in 90F weather, the pig was looking like a parade balloon. Being the incredibly bright boys we were, my best friend and I decided to shoot at it with our pellet guns. After a few shots, we must have penetrated the leathery skin, because the pig shuddered and literally popped open. Some organs were shot into the air, and the wave of stench that washed over us made us drop our guns, run towards the house and vomit on the front lawn.

[NYC]

13. Promises not kept by Washington. Rate this article.

... Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson Parish just south of New Orleans, told NBC's Meet the Press.

"For God sakes, shut up and send somebody," a tearful and anguished Broussard said of promises not kept by Washington, adding that "bureaucracy has committed murder" in New Orleans.

Rumsfeld: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld toured a medical facility at New Orleans' international airport. He spoke and shook hands with military and rescue officials but walked right by a dozen refugees lying on stretchers just feet away from him, most of them extremely sick or handicapped.

3 1/2 stars with 257 votes.

[guruoo]

16. Link Rummie story

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/national/nationalspecial/04cnd-storm.html?pagewanted=print&oref=login

[MnFats]

24. "The government didn't do jack."

that about sums it up right there.

[NNN0LHI]

17. "Looters", huh? That means they are black for sure

Because black folks loot and white folks find stuff.

Don

[President Kerry]

41. you're ignoring the story. If they open fire, they get shot.

Fair and square. White/black/Asian/whatever. Sorry, I'm not buying the race card in this story.

[guruoo]

50. If the story's true, which I doubt

Sounds like they made sure not to leave any witnessess

[SoCalDem]

18. So they are providing the bodies for their own "hunt"?

Spunds like a republican thing to do.. They are on a "feral human" hunt..and anyone on the streets is in danger of being shot.

[mrdmk]

34. Here is what the foreign media is reporting

link
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16494579%5e12377,00.html

<snip>
At least five people shot dead by police as they walked across a New Orleans bridge yesterday were contractors working for the US Defense department, according to a report by The Associated Press.
<end of snip>

What do they know that we do not?

[guruoo]

37. And they're still reporting the original version.

[Heidi]

63. What is the "official" definition of "looter"? (nt)

[kurtyboy]

19. Someone needs to send in Snake Pliskin

He'll get that city cleared up...

[Shipwack]

28. Snake?

I heard he was dead...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

35. lol

[pinniped]

30. He won't get the message because he turned the world off.

.

[rainbow4321]

22. There is some more shooting going on now....

Police are reporting on scanner that when some guys entered the city to deliver and start up generators, they got "shot at". Someone was "supposed to set up security" for them to enter and get the job done...didn't happen.

[Zynx]

23. Not smart to shoot at police.

[RandiFan1290]

29. DHS, DEA, Blackwater, and The Steele Foundation

must be having communication problems.

:think:

[shank]

36. It's pretty obvious that

the police are covering up murder. These corn-fed white boys see a group of young black men and one of them gets scared and starts shooting. The others get scared because they don't know what's happening so they start shooting. When the smoke clears you got some innocent dead black teenagers, not looters and who are unarmed.
So you and your racist cop buddies plant a few guns and make up a story. This kind of crap happens all the time, especially in the South.

[RandiFan1290]

38. Please tell me more about the corn-fed white boy NO cops!!

:hi:

[shank]

39. I'm just trying to say

that I wouldn't immediately assume that the cops were just doing their business when some evil black men, for no reason and no gain just happened to fire on their heavily armed asses. I doesn't make any sense. Don't believe everything you read in the news. Sometimes there is more to the story.

[President Kerry]

43. sorry - bs. Almost everyone left in NO is black. i.e.

the "white" police would see "black kids" everywhere. By your rationale the shootings should be constant. NOPD is doing an important part in rescuing the city, and giving the benefit of the doubt to maurauders, that no doubt still roam that city still leaching off this tragedy, is unfair to say the least.

[FlaGranny]

44. Are you aware that most of the NO cops are black? n/t

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leetrisck]

48. If you're trying to get a rise out of someone

you just did - cops are not pigs, neither are the National Guard or the Military or any of the people living there. The people there are simply a cross section of this country. Your hatred for your fellow man is quite intense and mine for you is very similar..

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leetrisck]

51. Why don't you go do the job since you are so

well informed about cops and the National Guard, etc. Are you one, have you ever been one or could you be one - your hatred seems to be somewhat misplaced (in my view). Why don't you put the blame where it belongs - ON BUSH AND HIS CABAL

[FlaGranny]

52. I think you need to take a break and calm down.

Even if the guard were mostly white, do you really believe that all white people kill, beat up, and murder blacks? Your prejudice is extreme, whether it is prejudice against your own race or another. It is not acceptable. The Guard is no better and no worse than the population at large.

[shank]

56. ls

The population at large is whipped up into a media induced frenzy over this disaster. Very similar to 9/11. Everyone is saying we must unite, conservative or liberal, and do what we can to help the victims or at least express sorrow. In these situations we tend to believe what the media is telling us and not question if it is bullshit. This type of nationalism is what brought about the wholesale torture of innocent Iraq
people.

[RandiFan1290]

58. So spill it shank!

Please tell all of us what is really going on.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[President Kerry]

59. unbelievable..

the brave people there are the ones saving lives. Do you fucking not get that??? Those shot, were the ones shooting at people trying to fix the levee, and then at the police. How the hell can you justify it? By the way, they were shot by the NOPD, NOT the National Guard, who you seem to hate for being white and not from the area. Much of the NG, btw is from Louisiana, as it's a state force.

I have nothing more to say to you. You're obviously racist, and I don't deal with "people" of your ilk.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Amused2Death]

71. please

ignore the obvious troll...

[President Kerry]

73. wait a min.. defending the NOPD makes me a troll?

somehow my head is spinning.

[President Kerry]

72. what does that have to do with Iraq?

i was talking about something completely different.

[sam sarrha]

64. NOT LOOTERS...They are Organized GANGS.!!

the police said they had to loot to survive.. NO support.

Bu$h is a LOOTER he Looted $180,000,000,000 from he NOLA LEVEE Fund to hide the Iraqi war cost.. he is LOOTING every program to hide the war cost.

THAT IS WHY THIS ALL HAPPENED

THINK ..quit believing the spin

[HEyHEY]

67. IT all DEPENDS on WHAT they WERE looting

Food IS not LOOTING that's JUST surviving. BUT if THEY were STEALING stereos THAT'S another THING. that BEING said, NO one SHOULD be SHOT for STEALING a STEREO either.

[HEyHEY]

66. Is this the same as the five that were supposedly shootng at engineers?

Or is this another incident

[guruoo]

75. We don't really know...

for sure, the scenario(s) (that seemed
unlikely to begin with) keep changing.
People are questioning it because the official story
just doesn't add up, especially the one that
has 6 individuals launching an attack on a
group of workers protected by what one would presume
to be a heavly armed police escort.
I mean, were they blind, or what?

[Sven77]

68. Police shoot & kill five Pentagon contractors

Police shoot & kill five Pentagon contractors
A spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers said the victims were contractors on their way to repair a New Orleans canal, the new agency said, quoting a defence Department spokesman -- The Australian
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16494579%5E12377,00.html

FEMA blocked water & gasoline and cut communication lines to New Orleans last week
"We had Wal-Mart deliver three trucks of water, trailer trucks of water. FEMA turned them back. They said we didn't need them. This was a week ago. FEMA--we had 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel on a Coast Guard vessel docked in my parish. The Coast Guard said, "Come get the fuel right away." When we got there with our trucks, they got a word. "FEMA says don't give you the fuel." Yesterday--yesterday--FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication lines. They cut them without notice. Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in, he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards on our line and says, "No one is getting near these lines." -- MSNBC
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/
http://www.michaelmoore.com/_images/splash/aaron_broussard.mov

from http://www.timnews.com/

[shank]

74. w

The situation in New Orleans is VERY similar to the situation in Iraq. What you have in NO is a bunch of racist thugs (National Guard) shooting innocent civilians because the White House and the Corporate media said they were evil.

[guruoo]

76. Foreign media quotes Army spokesman as 'constructors killed'

09.06.2005 Tuesday - ISTANBUL 05:04

Constructors for the Army Killed by Police in New Orleans
By Anadolu News Agency (aa)
Published: Monday, September 05, 2005
zaman.com

It is revealed that among the armed people killed by police on a bridge in New Orleans, were US constructors working for the army.

US Army Engineers Spokesman John Hall has declared those people killed by police were constructors, who were headed towards a channel restoration. He stated that the constructors were killed while on their way to Pontrchartrain River to repair the15th Street Channel.

New Orleans Police Chief Deputy W. J. Riley in a former statement said that the police opened fire against eight armed people on Danziger Bridge, located between Pontchtrain and Mississippi river, and five or six of them were killed as a result of the attack.

<01:32:00>

http://www.zaman.com/?bl=hotnews&alt=&trh=20050906&hn=23706

[Judi Lynn]

78. Thank you, thank you!

Well, since there's no chance the CONTRACTORS were shooting at the cops, it's quite unlikely the cops had to defend themselves by killing them.

It DOES look as if they blew them away before they knew who they were.

Friendly fire in their own country. Interesting.

[guruoo]

79. I don't know about that...

but I do know this whole story smells
to high heaven of coverup.
I keep trying to understand why 8 locals
would choose to launch an attack on such an
obivously well protected procession crossing a bridge.