Would-be rescuers cool their heels (FEMA urban search/rescue)

[rainbow4321]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/katrina/stories/090605dnmetkatfema.d400626.html


They have been trimming one another's hair, lounging on hotel chairs, chatting on cellphones. They've been up at dawn, exercising in front of the hotel, trying to stay busy.

What they haven't been doing is dangling from helicopters over flooded neighborhoods or going into half-collapsed buildings searching for hurricane victims to rescue.

The 83 members of the Federal Emergency Management Agency's Urban Search and Rescue team from Orange County, Calif., have been told to stay downtown at the Hyatt Regency Dallas at Reunion.

The reason for the extended holdover? Team members were told that conditions were too chaotic in New Orleans, which has been plagued by violence and reports of gunfire aimed at rescuers, and the National Guard needed more time to restore order. In addition, problems getting supplies to the rescue crews already there, as well as victims, had not been worked out.

[susanna]

1. O. M. G.

What a gigantic load of crap.

Thank God for the Coast Guard (now running non-stop for seven days, mind you) and the multitude of private citizens with boats that are actually UP TO THE FREAKING CHALLENGE (i.e., rescuing the stranded) while FEMA's Urban Search and Rescue cools their heels.

This is absolutely astounding to me.

[rainbow4321]

3. Oh..it gets better

From the same article:

Since Friday, they have been sitting tight at the luxury hotel with members of five other teams of specialists...


"We've been trying like hell to get out of here," said Battalion Chief Hawkins, one of the Orange County task force leaders.

-------------
BTW, apparently someone has decided that the search and rescue mission
in NO is a 9-5 job...cuz per the local scanner, the army soldiers are holed up in a NO hotel tonight, with orders to not go anywhere til morning..search and rescue is on hold since it got dark.

They must all be ordered to bed at chimp's bedtime or something.

[NYC]

9. Luxury hotel. Notice how the money is being spent.

Homeland Security is well funded. They have money to trot people out for press conferences and to have search and rescue teams sitting idle in luxury hotels, but apparently not enough money to actually rescue people.

Night vision goggles would come in handy for nighttime rescues. There has been no sense of urgency on the part of the federal government throughout this whole disaster.

If anyone knows, please tell me how the Coast Guard got in there and stayed in there, and wasn't blocked by Homeland Security's FEMA.

[peacetalksforall]

31. I am rational. I am suspicious. Could the curfew on these helpers

mean that there are other people out killing Blacks in the night hours on the basis of an assumption that they are looters and disrupters? How many people once known to be alive will be found with bullet holes in them? I am curious? Why are all the helpers, not just those mentioned in this article, being prevented from helping? It would seem you want as many peole in there as possible to bring normalcy. Does anyone else believe that criminals have taken over a flooded area and that it is as dangerous as they say?

What do we really have happening there? One thing is for sure - there is a news blackout on the claims and counter-claims.

They don't allocate money to prevent this and now they have highly paid (an assumption) helathy people who are willing to do the job stnading down. Just like the Air Force and NORAD and others stood down.

Given the history of Cheney and his plans... this does not look good. We have a precedent. Challenge my suspicision.

Any investigative commission launched cannot be done by Cheney and his pals.

[FlaGranny]

35. Because the NG is under the control

of the governor - that's why.

[Occulus]

7. You know, I'm starting to think

the * admin will use the private response- as opposed to that of the federal government- to trumpet how all these public rescue plans and disaster preparations aren't so necessary, because it was the private sector that helped out soooo much with Katrina...

I wouldn't put it past them. I simply wouldn't.

[SeanQ]

33. I've thought that too and it scares the piss out of me

Though if they dismantle the federal apparatus that much maybe secession from FundiLand wont be as much of a hurdle.

[intheflow]

39. I know that's what he's going to trumpet.

But I don't think the people are going to buy it. Dispersing hundreds of thousands of people throughout the country will lessen but no alleviate the economic consequences from NO. It will be difficult to find work and affordable housing and food for all those people, some already underfunded inner city school systems will be overwhelmed by the influx of new kids, if not in classroom size then by having to absorb the educaition costs and probably disruptive behavior by some of the surviving children (PTSD). Yes, some people will drink that kool aid, but I think the country as a whole is growing immune to the kool aid's toxic effects.

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. Besides, those hundreds of thousands who all have personal

stories of what the government did not do to help them are fanning out among the red states, spreading sedition wherever they go.

People who only get their info from the corporate media will hear, from the horses' mouths, what really happened.

This is a disaster for Bushco, of their own making.

[sandnsea]

42. Funny you should say that

I just blogged on that yesterday, the Corporatization of Katrina. The private sector and the churches and the military, that's who they're going to say "saved the day". They're going to say government is incompetent in order to justify cutting it even more. I hate to think they'd let all those people die in order to implement their neocon agenda, but nothing else makes any sense.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/?view=plink&id=1346

[Pacifist Patriot]

43. Oh good gravy!

That is a chilling thought indeed.

[krkaufman]

53. I've already heard similar at least once.

David Brook's proferred, on Sunday's 'The Chris Matthews Show', that the recovery failure was an example of how big government fails the people. (Rather than admitting the fact that the fault lies w/ the particular people currently running the government.)

[crikkett]

18. they can't operate w/o orders.

From the same article:
"We've been trying like hell to get out of here," said Battalion Chief Hawkins, one of the Orange County task force leaders.

so don't blame them. they're not just up for the challenge, they're away from their families, too.

[Lars39]

20. Yes they could.

They could DEFY the 'stay-put' and go do what is right.

[tuckessee]

26. Oh yes they could.

It's called having balls, guts, American ingenuity, doing the right thing, seizing the initiative, etc.

Consumate order takers, these gov't teat suckers, they let folks die because they're afraid to ruffle anyone's feathers. Now that's heroic!

These pinheads should've stayed home and let private citizens in to rescue people. What it takes 10 professionals with millions of dollars of equipment to do in a week three local boys with a swamp boat could do in an hour.

I wonder if they'd be sitting on their asses in a luxury hotel if it were their loved ones trapped in that hell-hole. Talk about fiddling while Rome burns.......

People are literally dying directly because of their inertia. It's sickening

[RaleighNCDUer]

45. That's just the point. These aren't local boys. They are outsiders

from all over the country, and they don't know the area, or where they are needed. They, very reasonably, wait for someone to tell them where to go so that efforts are not duplicated or redundant. Thing is, the people in charge are not in charge, are not coordinating the effort, are letting these professional rescue teams waste their time.

The fault isn't with the teams. I'm sure most are doing everything they can, within the parameters they are allowed. The fault is with Brown and Chertoff and Bush.

[rocktivity]

2. Could you imagine a solider in Iraq or Afghanistan saying

"What? I'm not going out there--with all that gunfire and violence, it's too chaotic and dangerous!"

:crazy:
rocknation

[iverglas]

51. asked that same question myself today

What on earth is a military FOR?

And do we really imagine that the members of the US military would not regard this as precisely what they are trained, and want, to do? Protect their own people, in dangerous conditions where they are the only ones equipped and trained to do it?

[snot]

4. I find FEMA's obsession with control after

it's demonstrated incompetence if not downright malice to be frightening.

[NYC]

5. That excuse is being used as frequently as the aluminum tubes.

... There they have watched television reports, itching to help the stranded victims of Katrina but ordered by FEMA officials to stay idle...

FEMA (under Homeland Security) has thwarted rescue efforts repeatedly.

[notadmblnd]

30. and they still are.

nt

[MisterP]

6. didn't they say "lawlessness was over"?

[rainbow4321]

11. Yep...Honore said so himself

With Chertoff at his side...remember what Honore asked the reporter:
"have you been to downtown NO?? Were you approached at all? No, because it is SAFE"...He ENCOURAGED even civilians to go into NO and help!! Chertoff looked startled and cut him off with "uh, we don't need chopper accidents over the area".

[unrepuke]

19. "Mission Accomplished" -- Now the trouble starts

[kath]

8. Meanwhile, people by the hundreds or thousands are dying in attics.

OMFG - just when I think I can't get any more disgusted with the way the feds are handling this.
ARRGGGGH, ARGGGGGHHHHH, AAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHH.

[NYC]

12. This has to be deliberate.

How could it not be?

[Gregorian]

16. Criminal negligence.

I am not a lawyer. But if ever..... You know. If these people got away with Iraq, they're going to get away with this. Something big is going to have to change very quickly.

[daleo]

10. If FEMA (leadership) wanted people to die

This is the sort of thing they would do. We are back to the old, old question about anything connected to Bush (911, Iraq, now this):

Are they evil, or just incredibly incompetent?

[NYC]

13. Doesn't this unquestionably rise above incompetence?

They prevented outsiders from offering help, both water and rescue efforts. That is beyond incompetence. And FEMA answers to Homeland Security, George Bush's creation.

[ms liberty]

28. YES, I would call it negligent homicide at the least...

Although now it is beginning to look more like conspiracy to commit mass homicide.

[Pierogi_Pincher]

21. I'm more and more aghast...

at the number of accounts evidencing the looking-like deliberate with-holding of rescue/aid to the victims. So what does it appear to be? GOD FORBID.

[Sarojin]

41. Clearly evil

They can go to all of the trouble to clear a path for W to come in for a photo op. Upon arrival, they set up a photo op for Laura by kicking people out of an area being used to Help people so that Laura can give someone a loaf of bread on camera. They get equipment out fixing the levee for the camera, and then after W leaves they move all of the equipment to somewhere else. The scenes seemed real enough on the tube, and not a single reported questioned the staged events. No small demonstration of abiity.

FEMA is confiscating buses and equipment on the scene or arriving at the scene before FEMA equipment is there. But they don't do anything useful with it. Politicians and reporters and college students are able to come and go at will, taking about 10 minutes to get to clear roads out of the city. FEMA doesn't even know there are folks at the Conv. Center until Thursday.

Lies, deception, complete mismanagement of this situation to cause histeria and flame race relations. It's just like Iraq, managed chaos so they can steal control and manage information. They're punishing LA just like they did D.C., for not electing a W supporter. And they do not care how many people die to do it.

How can anyone see this as anything other than evil? Even FEMA incompetence could have been overcome and saved thousands of people. But they intentionally prevented and rejected assistance, and did nothing to help people until W could manipulate state govt. All orchestrated, calculated, and evil.

[calimary]

47. Sounds like BOTH to me - evil AND incredibly incompetent.

CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT, too.

And indifferent. What did Dennis Kucinich say about this last week - "Indifference is a weapon of mass destruction."

bush HIMSELF is a weapon of mass destruction.

God help us all - we've got three more years of this jerk.

Unless we get the House back...

[krkaufman]

54. Both. Evil and incompetence aren't mutually exclusive. n/t

[jayctravis]

14. gaaaah! dammit!

"The reason for the extended holdover? Team members were told that conditions were too chaotic in New Orleans, which has been plagued by violence and reports of gunfire aimed at rescuers, and the National Guard needed more time to restore order."

The REASON they have descended into CHAOS is because they have no idea where their next meal or protection is coming from.

People who are fed riot a lot less.

[Gregorian]

15. There are going to be lawsuits.

Just because these people were poor, doesn't mean there aren't going to be vicious lawsuits coming. Oh, they're just poor people without money. Well, they'll get money. Because we're going to help them. Those who are still alive, that is.
I suggest we forfeit the Crawford ranch. Use the proceeds for legal funds.

[zalinda]

17. And, I want them to sue

George W Bush, not the government.

zalinda

[Pierogi_Pincher]

22. Let it be so! n/t

[peacetalksforall]

32. This is an area where the wealthy can show their outrage - funding

lawyers.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. start screaming this from the rooftops

[psychopomp]

24. .....

:kick:

[Bridget Burke]

25. These are NOT well meaning amateurs....

And I'm sure they could work with teams of NG to supply security--although that is not a current concern.

I remember some "amateurs" with boats who were out there rescuing people before they could be stopped. There are plenty of natives who are at home on the water.

[iverglas]

27. meanwhile ... the Canadians go door to door in St. Bernard Parish

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/story.html?id=43c5047a-6007-4a21-a94e-f7cb8e7ff576

Vancouver team gets to work
URBAN SEARCH AND RESCUE: Expert squad first into area, has saved 30

Matthew Ramsey
The Province
September 4, 2005

An elite team of rescue experts from Vancouver has saved 30 people in a suburb east of New Orleans devastated by Hurricane Katrina.

... Friday, the team was designated to lead rescue efforts in St. Bernard Parish, where an estimated 30,000 homes were flooded to their rooflines.

Armstrong confirmed what many refugees have been saying for days -- those unable to leave New Orleans and the surrounding area are in dire need of help, and rescue efforts are haphazard at best.

"There was no rescue effort. He was struck by that," said Vancouver deputy fire chief John McKearney, who spoke with Armstrong Friday.

http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/usar/index.htm
updates from the team in Louisiana

[kath]

29. "There was no rescue effort. He was struck by that," said Vancouver deputy

fire chief.

"THERE WAS NO RESCUE EFFORT."
Thousands of people stuck in attics or upper floors of buildings - many of them were still alive on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. But very, very little appears to have been done to get to them. How many of them are still alive now, on DAY NINE of this debacle?????

[rainbow4321]

34. There was a local rescuer who complimented the Canadian group

on a scanner transmission this weekend..said (paraphrased) "if everyone did like them, things would be going great". This was in response to how the US ground people were doing..the guy then mentioned the Canadian group was there, also, and then made the comment.

[iverglas]

37. after watching that man from St. Bernard Parish on TV

... begging for help, I can only be grateful that "we" were able to provide some.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. But Gen Honore says violence isn't an issue

How is it news teams can go anywhere?

[rainbow4321]

38. Per scanner, Homeland Security says: Media can enter "but they are on

their own"....and the person who said this kept emphasizing who the message was from: "Homeland Security".

[iverglas]

40. and EVEN IF IT WERE

what the FUCK is the military for?

Does the US military in Iraq run away when somebody shoots at them???

These are the Canadians who were sent to St. Bernard Parish, where nobody else was going:

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/story.html?id=9f87afc7-97c2-42d3-92a0-f41890a28f0d

Rescue team finishes job in New Orleans
Hero's welcome awaits group from Vancouver

On the last day of the mission yesterday, working from an abandoned firehall they revived, team members saved 22 people, bringing their total to 150, according to the team's final report from the field to Vancouver deputy fire chief John McKearney.

"We want to assure everyone back home that we are safe and in good spirits. It's a dangerous situation, but that's why we were deployed here, and that's what we train for," Armstrong said.

... McKearney would not speak about the number of bodies the unit found.

The team was deployed on Aug. 31 and was the first urban search unit to arrive in flooded St. Bernard Parish near New Orleans. U.S. troops and national guard members are now pouring into the devastated Gulf Coast.

Information about the team's daily activities were posted on the web.

- Sept. 1: "It's far too dangerous for even the state troopers and police to wander out," reports team leader Brian Inglis from Kenner, La. "It's absolutely crazy, the devastation is unreal -- the gunfire, the shooting, the looting is like something you see in a movie.

This does seem to contradict other reports (and I'd have to say that Cdn rescue workers have no axe to grind here) -- but still, the point is that this is WHY COUNTRIES HAVE MILITARIES. And it is why the US military should have been sent in immediately (as it was here in Canada to cope with the ice storm -- and even as it was to clear the streets of Toronto after a freak heavy snowfall a few years ago, much to the jeering of the rest of Canada).

The police deal with law-breaking. They do not deal with large-scale civil disasters or disorder. Local authorities do not have the resources to deal with large-scale disasters like this, and local police do not have the resources to deal with the obvious disorder -- of all kinds -- that results.

I can only imagine members of the US military sitting in front of televisions around the country, thinking send us! this is what we do! this is our job! this is what we're trained for -- to protect the people of our country. It was frustrating not being allowed to send the people in this country who are trained for these jobs; why a country would not send in its own, in the first instant the need was obvious to an invertebrate, I can't fathom.

The LSU hurricane centre director who had tried to warn FEMA and other federal officials *last year*, and on August 29, that this all was exactly what was going to happen, told MSNBC that he expected to wake up Tuesday morning and see the sky full of helicopters. I know I did.

And I would never have dreamed that one person shooting at one helicopter (if that even happened?) would have kept anyone from rescuing dying people.

[RaleighNCDUer]

46. "...one person shooting at one helicopter (if that even happened?)..."

Did it occur to no one in charge that the "shooting" might have been desperate people trying to attract attention, saying "here we are!"?

[iverglas]

48. it didn't even have to occur to them!

-- even if it *were* pure lawlessness.

They were TOLD what to expect by experts, even if it for some unknown reason didn't occur to them spontaneously that some of the people who are violent and lawless at the best of times (and there are people who are violent and lawless at the best of times, for whatever reason) should really be expected to be violent and lawless at the worst of times.

I saw this guy on MSNBC on Sunday, and I think this info needs to be known by everybody:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9178501/

What's more, it appears that the federal government did not follow up on an exercise last year that mostly predicted what happened in New Orleans — devastating flooding and hundreds of thousands stranded.

The scenario was dubbed Hurricane Pam: 120 mph winds, a massive storm surge, 20 feet of water in the city, 80 percent of buildings damaged, refugees on rooftops, possibly gun violence that would slow the rescue.

"What bothers me the most is all the people who've died unnecessarily," says Ivor Van Heerden, a hurricane researcher from Louisiana State University who ran the exercise.

The information package they provided included the results of public opinion surveys indicating that 30% of the population would remain in the affected areas.

Ain't modern science wonderful?

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9113550/

Updated: 12:33 p.m. ET Aug. 29, 2005

... “All indications are that this is absolutely worst-case scenario,” Ivor van Heerden, deputy director of the Louisiana State University Hurricane Center, said Sunday afternoon.

'A refugee camp of a million people'
The center’s latest computer simulations indicate that by Tuesday, vast swaths of New Orleans could be under water up to 30 feet deep. In the French Quarter, the water could reach 20 feet, easily submerging the district’s iconic cast-iron balconies and bars.

Estimates predict that 60 percent to 80 percent of the city’s houses will be destroyed by wind. With the flood damage, most of the people who live in and around New Orleans could be homeless.

... In a few days, van Heerden predicts, emergency management officials are going to be wondering how to handle a giant stagnant pond contaminated with building debris, coffins, sewage and other hazardous materials.

Okay, so maybe what did happen wasn't actually the absolutely worst-case scenario ... by sheer,um, luck. I suppose those folks were just reading tea leaves ...

[Miss Chybil]

49. FUCK THAT! nt

[defiant1]

50. Sheesh....

I hope they're enjoying their AC and cable TV.

[cpamomfromtexas]

52. damn, they used to insist I stay at roach motels

I worked for the inspector general and could never have pulled this off for myself.

I had to stay on the road 3 weeks at a time since they would only buy a ticket home once every 3 weeks.

that's why I left, you can't be a mom and do that.