CNN Breaking: Mayor of NO issues order authorizing forced removal

[dolo amber]

of people refusing to leave the city; more to come.

http://www.cnn.com/

This can't be good...this is a total no-win situation. :(

edit for clarity

[skooooo]

1. what's the alternative?

The feds would withhold food and water...

:-(

[Cronus Protagonist]

8. Make way for the bulldozers

That's what's next.

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. At the moment, Fire seems to be a major concern

He would be held negligent if he didn't demand that people leave. Makes you wonder if anyone is helping the fires along? I wouldn't put it past the snakes that went around cutting communication lines.

Nagin is a good guy. Don't buy the freeper bs about him.

[Cronus Protagonist]

16. I wasn't referring to anything freeperish

I was perfectly serious. The next phase will be bulldozing. Bulldozing not only clears the ground fast and allow removal of all the toxic waste, not to mention the rotting bodies and dangerous structures.

The fact that it's next on the list isn't anything freeperish, it's just the normal modus operandus based on what I've seen before after a major disaster.

I made no comment about Nagin. I don't even know who he is, but I'm sure the feds will want to bulldoze right away, first of all to make the place safer, and the added side effect of not allowing a count of the dead must make the project a little more desireable and urgent for them as well.

[DoYouEverWonder]

34. Since this is a thread about Nagin supposedly ordering the forced evac

I assumed you were referring to him.

(I know you're not a freeper) But a lot of people, even DUers are falling for the bash Nagin crap. I even jumped all over my husband tonight, so I guess I'm a bit touchy at the moment.

[liberalnurse]

38. I'd have to agree with that finding.

N.O is a dangerous environment on every level of Masolow's needs.

[Teaser]

27. Property is still property.

There has been no invocation of eminent domain, nor any rational for doing so.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

I think the declaration of martial law makes anything possible.

[Teaser]

50. wasn't actually declared.

yet...

[Radio_Lady]

43. This has to do with a suspected outbreak of e. Coli bacteria and other

health issues. People exposed to the water may have to have hepatitis shots.

[MSgt213]

2. Those people can't stay there. I hate to see it come to this but it can

not be healthy for them to be there.

[genius]

3. This fits in with what Randi Rhodes was saying. Mayor is former Republican

He contributed to Bush. Did Bush promise him part of development profits?

[valerief]

5. He probably gets to keep his neck

[xray s]

7. he's seen the pot of gold

believe me

[pitohui]

12. oh crap do we need to go there now

agreed his politics are not good but i can honestly say i would make the same decision

these ppl will die

some don't have the mental capacity to understand, others are convinced they don't have the strength to go on w/out their pets, property, land, etc. so they'd just as soon die

if it was yr friend saying he'd just as soon die as live w/out his house or his dog, you'd get him to a freaking hospital

nagin is doing the right thing

[KamaAina]

13. Nagin was an executive with the cable company

Cox, unless they sold it. I suspect his donations to ** may have been part of corporate "bundling", i.e. how corps get around donation limits by having all their execs, and often their families, max out, nearly always on repukes :puke: .

[Freddie Stubbs]

52. Why would a Republican want to get people to leave a city that is filled

with rotting bodies, disease, and contaminated water? :shrug:

[Connie_Corleone]

4. There's really no other choice.

Those people are going to get sick, if they're not already, from walking around in that disease-infested water. They'll run out of food and water too.

[pitohui]

6. what choice does he have

they are going to die if they don't get out

there is no clean drinking water, you don't live long without that

& for those who fantasize that someone can come around & deliver this by hand to every person left in the city, you have no idea of the size of the city or the size of the job ahead

i wasn't a nagin fan before this, but you gotta do what you gotta do

giuliani ( prob. can't spell it) had no difficult decisions to make, all he had to do was be there

nagin actually has to make tough choices

you sleep on it, think abt it

one day you'll know what i'm sayin

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. Apparently they are also afraid of the fires that are breaking out

They have no way to get to some of these areas in a timely way, so it is a valid concern.

However, I do not see anything in the link that says Nagin has authorized the forced removal of people. Could you post the part you are referring to, I don't see it. Thanks.

[rainbow4321]

26. I would be, too..gas leaks + flame = bad things happen

Today workers on the ground reported gas leaks from houses torn apart in the floods. ...any sparks (car ignition, light switches) never mind massive fire, could cause a large fireball.

Today someone (EPA??) requested that no one even SMOKE near the water (as if there is a place NOT near the water? Nicotine patches/gum, anyone?)

[Ruby Romaine]

54. will they make the white people who are keeping bars open leave?

I saw one (white) guy on NBC last night described as "Robin Hood"
not a looter!

[KyndCulture]

10. Don't get on his ass about this. They have GOT TO LEAVE.

there's no food, no water, no store, no money, no infrastructure...

It's awful to come to this, but they really do need to leave, they could die of an disease transfered by the very air they are breathing that is becoming toxic..

[dolo amber]

11. Wasn't

:hi:

[KyndCulture]

15. oh I know.. just got that tingly feeling some will...

I'm picturing these poor people who are "protecting" what they own and don't realize that the air is getting toxic now because they have no contact with the outside world.

[Nikia]

19. Some people are sitting on a small stockpile

Of food and beverage and toiletries. Without even intending it, many people would be alright for several weeks. Some probably even stocked up for the hurricane.
In their minds, they are better off at home than in some crowded shelter, especially if they heard the news about what went on with the Superdome.
Your right though. Disease could become a problem. It is a problem though too living in crowded conditions.

[marshall]

22. Finally!

Hopefully after everything is decontaminated people will be able to return with trucks and gather momentos and whatever else can be salvaged like family photos.

[Carni]

32. I have mixed feelings about this

Common sense says yeah they have to get out--

Additionally what will the feds pull after these people leave?

With what I know about the bush admin I probably wouldn't leave either-dying of ecoli might be preferable to spending my freaking life in the astrodome.

It's safer and logical for them to get out but they probably trust bush less then they do the fires and the diseased waters.

I don't think Nagin has a choice, but I think the guard and cops should look the other way on this--I don't think forcing people to leave should be a priority.

[KyndCulture]

36. Ok but law enforcement is charged with safety...

they know it's not safe... what do they do? It's life and death in most parts of the city.

[Carni]

46. They can't be everywhere is what I am saying

The order is out there but they can have selective vision.

I guess my feeling on this is...if the people staying are peaceful and are not committing crimes then they have made the commitment to ride it out.

I hate to sound trite but it's kind of a right to die issue.

[meganmonkey]

17. He said he wouldn't, under any circumstances, withhold food and water

on NPR this afternoon.

[eternalburn]

18. After the nightmare of the Dome would you trust any government evac?

The shameful inaction of the past week would not give me much confidence that the powers-that-be were looking out for my best interest in any scenerio. My red flag alert always goes up now when a politician says they are doing something for my own good.

Perhaps with no citizens left in the devistation there will also be no public accounting for what is found once the water drains. This disaster is like an iceberg. We ain't seen nothin' yet.

[rainbow4321]

20. Not good...talking today about "point of attack"

Today on the scanner they were doing "aerial views" of the 9th ward and surrounding areas, I believe..and tossing words around like "this is to give the leaders a look at the point of attack"...saying "9th ward has been secured".

Also talking about "a five day mission".

Gave me shivers at the time..and even more so now.

Maybe the chatter I heard is totally unrelated, but it sure as hell sounded like they were in the "pre-planning, scope the place out" of action today.



Yesterday they reported Nagin was to meet with some Brig. General "to discuss NO operations."

[Demobrat]

21. Those poor, poor people.

So many of them have probably never been far from their neighborhoods, much less the city. That's just how it is when you are dirt poor.

So of course they would rather stay where they are.

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know.

But they can't. Their homes are gone, even if they are still living in them.

So they are facing not only the loss of everything they ever had - they are being forced to deal with unfamiliar surroundings for probably the first times in their lives.

If only there was something I could do besides send money. :(

[anitar1]

47. Another danger is the mold that is growing. n/t

[Zynx]

23. You can't stay in a city with no water or sanitation system.

[Carni]

33. Tell that to the British and the French

I'll agree it's not healthy but there have been situations where people have survived under these conditions.

[greatauntoftriplets]

24. Sad, so sad....

but these people will die of disease if they stay. Dysentery, maybe cholera and typhoid. These aren't diseases that occur in the United States in the 21st century, are they?

[shraby]

25. There is a very real danger of disease

in the city now. Cholera, dysentery, typhus are just 3 that come to mind. This would be throughout the affected area. He's right to make them evacuate.

[rainbow4321]

30. West Nile, also

They just today got permission from FEMA and FAA to spray for mosquitoes..**both agencies** refused to let it be done Monday.

[KyndCulture]

31. e-coli is already in that water...

we all carry it in our body... it just takes one hand to mouth to make you sick.

[Teaser]

28. Good.

The last thing we need is even more people catching cholera.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. What's the alternative? There is none, IMHO.

[xyboymil]

35. He did the right thing. There are no jobs, no hospitals, no schools, ..

Nothing left to "stay" for.

The city is in ruin. Period.

[KyndCulture]

37. exactly. The city cannot support life in more ways than one. nt.

[rainbow4321]

39. "Mosquitoes that are biting dead people are starting to fly."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/06/katrina.impact/index.html

I want to emphasize that I would like everyone to get out because it's a health risk," he said. "It is not safe. Mosquitoes that are biting dead people are starting to fly."

The toxic nature of the water is evident from the smell of garbage, human waste and rotting corpses, and the slick sheen of oil, gasoline and other chemicals on the surface.

"I understand wanting to stay in their homes, not wanting to give up on New Orleans," Nagin said. "I have resisted the urge to go visit my own home. I know it's under water.

"But we have a very volatile situation. There's lots of oil on the water, gas leaks where it's bubbling up, and there's fire on top. If those two unite, God bless us."

[Psephos]

49. Mosquitoes do not bite dead people. n/t

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

53. Mosquitoes bite animals that eat dead people n/t

[bemildred]

40. This could get ugly.

Some of these people are armed and may not wish to leave.

[Fleshdancer]

41. I hate to say it, but this is the only option.

Too much disease. The water is too toxic. I can't believe this.

[distantearlywarning]

42. Those people need to leave.

Assuming transport and shelter is being arranged for them, it is time for them to go.

New Orleans by all accounts is a toxic mess, and lingering survivors will only impair whatever efforts are being made to fix the problems there.

I hope they will act humanely when removing these people from New Orleans.

[wanpete]

44. I know Nagin has developed a lot of fans here at the DU

but I must say that my gut does not trust him at all...and my gut is usually right. I think that he has some blame in not helping the poor and elderly of his city to get out before this storm. "the storm is massive and you need to leave" a day before it hits is not acceptable....where was the plan to help those leave who actually tried to obey the evacuation?

Of course, this is by NO means even addresses the issues of FEMA, DHS, and *co's murderous neglect of these poor citizens,,,but I call it like I see it and he(Nagin) didn't do all that he could do imho...

flame away if you wish!

[Doremus]

45. That's probably the best for the homeless, but there are some who prepared

dilligently, toughed out the storm and the floods and aren't in the same danger as someone homeless just by virtue of the fact that their homes are still standing. They've probably performed some repairs already and have taken steps to improve their safety.

These are the people that one-size-fits-all evacuation orders do a disservice to.

I believe these people have a right to stay with their property because they've shown via their actions that they've weighed the decision carefully and proactively.

And they have so many reasons to trust the government with their property. :eyes:

[Demobrat]

51. But if there's no clean water

they're committing suicide.

And once the mandatory evacuation is "completed", there won't be any way to get clean water, because nobody will be allowed in.

[TX-RAT]

55. Find them, I.D them and let them stay.

Just remember theres a bunch that don't want to be identified. Local warrants, state warrants, and federal warrants will keep some in hiding.

[milkyway]

48. But you gotta love the wingnuts who defend to the death the right to their

home, but burst a spleen about poor blacks who do the same. That being said, it's time to get everybody out before the region becomes like Chernobyl.

[Peace Patriot]

56. I heard an interview of a guy--sounded black, older guy, very calm--

on Laura Flanders (AAR) who said his area was fine and he was sticking to his home. He said there's a section of 20% of NO which he's in, which is okay, and they shouldn't be removed. He was determined to stay. They didn't get into details of water supply, etc.--but this man sounded quite reasonable, and he must have planned for (or has access to) supplies. And he says everyone around him in his part of NO is fine.

My suspicions are that, a) the gov and the mayor made a deal with the criminals in the White House to avoid martial law and federalization of their Nat'l Guard, and maybe part of it was they would themselves evac the the city; and b) that this section of the city this guy was in (don't know which section it was) is in the path of whatever it is that Dick Cheney has in mind (high security enclave for the rich, near oil supplies, with all the poor, and any poor property owners, cleared out, and dispersed to the far winds, never to return?) (...and there are some serious problems for the people FEMA is shoving off to places like Utah--they stopped all relocations today--don't know what's going on).

I don't like this at all. Not at all. With all the help FEMA refused--a huge amount--and all the generous donations offered by numerous countries, and all the boondoggle FEMA money that Congress has appropriated, and will appropriate--that Cheney and other Bushites must have their beady, piggish little eyes upon--you would think that habitable parts of NO or nearby areas could have been set up for displaced folks, to keep them near their homes, which is what they want. They're now shuttling them around the country like cattle--like dross, like dregs, with no rights, with nothing left, probably suffering trauma and ill health. The unwanted. The homeless. The wandering tribes. The pariahs. The devastated. That's the fate of these displaced people, it seems.

And these criminals in the White House CAUSED all this--they CREATED Disaster #2, immeasurably compounding Disaster #1. Deliberately, the murderers!

See FEMA's list of crimes in this disaster, at
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4660874

So I don't know. The mayor's hands may be tied. He may have had to do a trade-off--to fend off the horror of Bush taking command of all forces, and the horror of FEMA withholding humanitarian aid while the Bushites studied their real estate maps, and waited for the unfixed levees to do their work, and the poor to be killed off or moved out.

I just hate this situation. I hate it! I hate for those dirtbags to get their way. And if the poor want to resist, I'm on their side.