(Conservative German) Minister: Bush must be 'shot down'

[sabra]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/09/08/germany.bush.reut/

Minister: Bush must be 'shot down'

BERLIN, Germany (Reuters) -- A conservative German minister in a southern state has caused uproar by saying U.S. President George W. Bush should be "shot down" for his handling of the crisis in hurricane-struck New Orleans.

Andreas Renner, Social Minister in Germany's southern state of Baden-Wuertemberg, clarified later that he had only meant Bush should be downed politically.

During a visit to a local company on Tuesday, Renner said of Bush: "He ought to be shot down."

He later retracted the remark, saying he meant Bush should be shot down "in a political sense", according to the Reutlinger General-Anzeiger newspaper.

Opposition Social Democrat (SPD) politicians in the state called for his resignation, noting conservatives were quick to call for the resignation in 2002 of a former SPD national justice minister, Herta Daeubler-Gmelin, who according to press reports compared Bush to Hitler.

[rooboy]

1. That headline should read "German says what America thinks but can't say"

eom

[Cascadian]

2. Holy Crap!

Well I suppose the Germans are great students in knowing the what a despot is and does. But to have a German conservative say those things? Wow!


John

[bigbrother05]

3. Love it Love it

Now that is free society.

[liberal N proud]

4. Someone had to say it and no one in the US could get away with it.

It is just that much better coming from a conservative.

[xdk999]

5. incorrect translation

He said "Der gehört abgeschossen."

this doesn't exactly translate to 'Bush must be shot down'...it's more like 'He has to be fired', or 'He has to be sacked', since 'abgeschossen' is slang for exactly that, dismissal from (political) employment.

silly you, cnn, nothing to see here, move on.

[Mira]

16. "Abgeschossen" is exactly that: Taken down is what it means. n/t

[5thGenDemocrat]

27. This is why I love this place (a majority of the time)

Not only the latest breaking news from around the world, but instantaneous (and correct) translations for us monolingual types.
Thank you, xdk999, and welcome to DU!
John
And "hi," mira.

[Canuckistanian]

6. I just read the original Reuters in German

"Der gehort abgeschossen" are the exact words used. Clearly meaning "to be shot down (with a gun).

This is about as defensible as Pat Robertson saying "assasinate".

What is it about conservatives and violence? Is it all about physically killing people you don't like?

[dutchdoctor]

7. Not that is not what it clearly means

"Abgeschossen" can be a colloquial way of saying he should be fired, destroyed politically, taken off the job etc.
It is used in this manner quite often.
When you read in the paper that Bush is under fire for the way he mishandled Katrina do you take that literally?

[Canuckistanian]

8. I was going from the root "abschiessen "

And it seems to have many interpretations. One dictionary (Websters German-English) has the first translation as "to blow up or explode".

And if it's so clear, then why did he have to explain his usage of the word to his fellow Germans?

[ET Awful]

10. For the same reason that Americans would demand clarification

if say . . . Tom DeLay said of Bill Clinton, "He should be shot down."

Although it's readily apparent to most what was meant, there are those who would demand clarification.

I would be willing to venture a guess that the phrase only became a colloquialism in Germany after being translated in American films and the like where the phrase is very common as in "shooting down" an idea or the like. Somewhere along the line, this was probably translated (via captioned films, etc.) as directly from English to German as possible resulting in the usage of "abschiessen" to mean "shot down" as in "the idea was shot down by the board of directors" and the like.

[xdk999]

12. "abschiessen" "erschiessen"

"abschiessen" is used in conjunction with things and animals, and "erschiessen" is used in conjunction with humans.

I am quite sure none of his fellow germans misinterpreted his words. It's only a few days until the elections in germany, so some opponents may misquote him by intention. Remember that another (federal) minister was fired for comparing * and Hitler. She got clearly "abgeschossen" for that.

[Canuckistanian]

18. Ok, I understand.

I need to brush up on my colloquialisms.

[benburch]

20. Idiom is like that.

And often words need to be explained even when they are very clear.

Remember the DC official who lost his job for using the word "Niggardly"?

Niggardly; (adj) grudging, niggardly, scrimy (petty or reluctant in giving or spending) "a niggardly tip"

Which people wrongly assumed was a racist word related to the pejorative for a person of color!

In reality it is a word from at least as early as the 14th century, and is likely related to the Scandanavian nig/Old Norse hnoggr, meaning miserly.

[RaleighNCDUer]

9. If you think about the derivations, that is exactly what is meant

by 'fired' or 'discharged'. Both are references to termination by firearms. They're just so common that they've lost that connotation.

The news here is CONSERVATIVE politicians calling for *'s removal.

[dutchdoctor]

22. Politicians all over the world know * is an idiot

Whether or not they say so out loud depends on whether they believe they will gain from it politically.
The sad news is that in recent years blasting the American Government is an easy way to gain popularity in almost any country in the world:
-Schroeder in Germany during the previous election
-Zapatero in Spain
-Chavez in Mexico
-Putin in Russia

The image of America has sunk dramatically since *'s presidency

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mairead]

13. Note the the SPD plays politics with it. How saddening.

There's something wrong with people who seize every opportunity to play Gotcha.

[Kellanved]

26. pardon?

With elections in a week and the myth of the "anti-american left" and the "pro-american right" around, this is too good a chance to pass it up.


Just remembering the criticism other politicians caught for statements far more harmless last week, I really don't see your point.

[Mairead]

30. My point was that presumably the SPD also think Bush should be

abgeschossen--but they nevertheless called for the conservative to resign. When you criticise someone for expressing a belief that you, too, hold, that's playing politics.

[Kellanved]

31. but that's not the thing the SPD attacks

The (state)SPD demands that he takes the step he would demand (and has demanded) from other politicians after comparable lapses.

[Mairead]

32. But since the SPD holds (or should) the same view, it's NOT

a lapse, it's the truth, and he should be commended by them for finally sobering up. It's only a 'lapse' if his continuing to hold the pro-Bush party line is more important to the SPD than having him tell the truth. His OWN party might insist he resign, but the SPD shouldn't do!

[nolabels]

14. Ah ha, that just goes to show how much other politicians know about ......

politics. Anybody could have said this from just about anywhere and it would been incorrect.

Bush was a waste case long before he ever made it to the oval office, like what a waste of protoplasm already :puke:

[TlalocW]

15. He didn't mean shot down like a mad dog

He meant shot down as in Bush needs to be insultingly turned down by a beautiful woman he's hitting on. There are many definitions of shot down after all.

This message brought to you by Pat Robertson's spin doctors.

TlalocW

[Just Me]

17. The Bush regime certainly has a talent at bringing out the passions.

They are inciteful by their actions.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Javaman]

21. I find it interesting that it's the "religous" people....

that are calling for killings and assassinations. First asshole robertson, now this dolt. Nothing like thou shalt not kill, huh?

[Straight Shooter]

23. I thought he meant that bush needs to go.

If he had said, "F*ck bush," I wouldn't have mistaken that for him wanting to have sexual relations with bush.

It's a sign of true anger when one doesn't measure their words before they are spoken. Whether the anger is justified, in this case, or not, as in the case of Asshat-Pat Robertson, that depends on which side you're on.

Seems like the whole world is on one side or the other. Gee, I wonder why ...

[defiant1]

24. Maybe he meant....

Shot down off his high horse.

:rofl:

[drduffy]

25. Regardless of

how all of you determine the meaning to be.... I found the web site for that German state and sent him my sympathies.

I don't know, maybe it would analogous to using the word 'deleted' with respect to a wannabe fascist dictator of a country. Can be taken many ways. On my computer it usually means 'removed' but I can readily think of other meanings. That's what makes psycholinguistics so much fun.

[AspenRose]

28. Omigosh I was born in Baden- Wuertemberg (Heidelberg)

WHOA that is wicked serious...Germans aren't always known for their "tact," which sometimes isn't a bad thing....they just tell it like it is.

But WHOA :wow: And that's a conservative!!! Has he been taking lessons from Pat Robertson?

[donheld]

29. He should be punished like Pat Robertson was punished

IMHO with half a brain it's easy to tell what Mr Renner meant, but then most of the right don't use the half a brain they have.