US mulls "decisive" attack on Iraqi town

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=6073183&cKey=1126200918000

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - The United States is considering an all-out military attack in the coming weeks against the town of Tal Afar in northern Iraq, which it sees as a stronghold of rebellion, a U.S. general said on Thursday.

U.S. and Iraqi troops have been battling insurgents in Tal Afar, west of the northern city of Mosul, for several days. A joint U.S.-Iraqi military statement said they killed seven insurgents on Wednesday.

Many families have evacuated the town in recent days as violence increased.

"In Tal Afar, coalition forces and members of the Iraqi security forces are preparing a possible military operation to rid that city of insurgents," Major General Rick Lynch told a news briefing in Baghdad.

[unhappycamper]

1. We're gonna destroy that town to save it.

I heard that same thing about 40 years ago. . . . . .



p.s. Didn't work the last time.

[FightingIrish]

2. Now that we have established that human life has no value,

why not? Americans have been brain numbed to the point that the stench of death brought on by our tax dollars is no longer something we can be troubled with.

[xchrom]

3. lol -- like that will solve the problem?

sheesh -- we will kill all the iraqis just to get a supposed three.

[pinniped]

52. And those three will all be #3 dudes for al-Zarqawi.

.

[iverglas]

4. towns ...

Hmm, they tend to have people in them.

Many families have evacuated the town in recent days as violence increased.

Maybe some of them will hang around waiting for their welfare cheques ...

I know it's too much to expect people who don't give a shit about actual USAmericans to give a thought to Iraqis whose town is about to be hit by the military equivalent of a hurricane and flood ... but I'd sure like to see somebody drawing the parallels.

It is far MORE appalling for the US to intentionally attack an area occupied by ordinary human beings than it is for it to be negligent about rescuing ordinary human beings plunged into crisis by a more or less natural disaster. Really, it is.

[klook]

5. Most of those people are underprivileged anyway

So it will probably work out very well for them.

[iconoclastic cat]

6. Gee, you don't think that maybe the insurgents are *expecting* it?

Duh.

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. They have already gone "house to house" in Tal Afar

numerous times. This is all fruitless, it's a lost cause.

[guntherconcept]

8. Why don't they put FEMA in charge?

The town will be obliterated in no time.

[IA_Seth]

29. LOL, i know its no joke, but you did make me laugh.

[DS1]

9. WAG THE DOG! WAG THE DOG!

Katrina is the new Monica

[Lochloosa]

15. WAG THE DOG! WAG THE DOG!

say it over and over and over

[KamaAina]

46. WAG THE DOG! WAG THE DOG!

someone had to say it... :shrug:

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[daleo]

11. It's a lost cause, and this won't work

The only solution is to leave and let Iraqis rebuild their country, while the U.S. rebuilds New Orleans.

[SpinalTap]

12. Negative

That isn't a solution. First, simply leaving is effectively the same thing as letting the terrorists go. That will do nothing for the people of Iraq. How is that a solution?

Second, the Iraqi forces aren't ready yet to defend their country. They need more training, equipment and manpower. If we just up and left you can be sure that pure carnage would break out. You can also be sure that the next leader of Iraq would be a guy named Zarqawi. So I don't see that as a sensible solution either.

So, short of simply pulling out and abandoning the place, what is the solution?

[iverglas]

13. count the "terrorists"

Four "terrorist(s)" so far in two posts. You get lost?

"These people won't just go away..."

Damn, eh? I'll bet there are Iraqis muttering that to themselves on a daily basis.

Funny how you're soliciting opinions here about what should be done *now*, when nobody seemed much interested in such opinions back in the winter of 2003 ...

[SpinalTap]

17. So....

So your solution is.... what, exactly?

You're only making my point. It makes no sense to criticize a military op in Tal Afar (or anywhere) unless you can offer a better solution. If we don't offer alternative solutions then all we're doing is complaining.

[iverglas]

21. fascinating

I got soaked and frozen to the bone on several occasions raising my voice in public AGAINST the USAmerican attack on Iraq BEFORE it happened, and now it's MY job to solve their problems??

I don't thiiiiink so.

If I advise you against a bad investment and you make it anyway, will you be demanding that I tell you how to recoup your losses or just be quiet while you rob that bank?

Some problems just don't have good solutions. When you've caused the problem yourself, and there is no good solution, it really just is not the fault of the people who urged you not to cause the problem in the first place to find you a solution to it.

That doesn't mean that we don't get to criticize any solution you come up with, you see. We actually do get to say No, that solution is unacceptable, YOU find a better one.

But heck, next time I plan to get into a mess I can't reasonably expect to get out of, I'll come to you for some advice I can ignore and then demand that you clean up the mess for me ...

[Zenlitened]

32. That's funny. In a sad, sad sort of way.

It's up to us to provide intelligence and strategy to military brass now?

Do you have an e-mail or fax where we can send them our suggestions? I'm sure they'll be most appreciative.

[hadrons]

22. say SpinalTap, how about enlisting???

and helping out there

[iverglas]

24. tsk

If we're going to be giving food to people living under bridges, we should probably be directing it through the Red Cross.

Of course, when *I* say "we", I actually mean it.

;)

[leftchick]

26. bombing the shit out of civilians is not a "solution"

The US did the same fucking thing in the same fucking town at the same fucking time last year. All they ended up doing was killing a lot more innocent civilians. AND the rebels were back in town in No time.. Not to mention how many more new rebels for the cause the US makes for every innocent killed.

For God's sakes they throw out fliers telling the citizens to leave. Don't you think the rebels leave right with them.

KILL KILL KILL! It solves everything doesn't it? :puke:

Bring our troops the fuck home to protect us here not to protect someone else's oil.

[Frederik]

34. The terr'ists are coming! The terr'ists are comin!

The occupation forces in Iraq are facing a massive popular resistance mixed with certain jihaist elements. These latter - the only ones that can possibly be called "terrorists" - are there for one reason only: because the US is there. There will be no solution to this problem as long as the occupying forces stay in the country. They will only attract and create more of these people.

Meanwhile, the new government that the US forces are protecting is a Muslim fundamentalist one which for all practical purposes is a puppet government for Iran. Nobody could have predicted that would happen, right? Right?

[TheWatcher]

40. One Solution

Would be for you to lay off the talking points if you expect to have a serious discussion on this forum.

[DoYouEverWonder]

48. Don't let them rebuild New Orleans

it will never get done. New Orleans needs to be rebuilt by the people of New Orleans.

[Lochloosa]

16. I have one for you....Leave

[SpinalTap]

20. That's great

Please... I'm only asking a simple and, I think, fair question.

Please explain why you want me to leave.

[iverglas]

23. hahaha

Sensitive, aren't we?

Me, I interpreted that as what it was: an answer to your question.

Q. Alternative solutions???
... If we don't go into this town, then what?
Do we let these terrorists go?
Do we allow them a home base (as Fallujah was)?

A. I have one for you
....Leave

Seemed pretty plain.

Leave IRAQ.

[Zenlitened]

33. That's how I read it, too.

The mind is a fascinating thing!

[iverglas]

36. but interestingly ...

the other option seems to have been exercised
... perhaps not voluntarily though.

;)

Obviously good reason for that sensitivity!

[Zenlitened]

38. At least he'll have more time now...

... to masturbate over his poster-size picture of Commander Dubya McFlightsuit.

:puke:

[Lochloosa]

39. And I replied to you "simple and fair (and balanced) question"

we need to leave Iraq. Nothing we do there is going to help other than leaving. We have created a country that will hate us more than it already does. Where are the "flowers and candy"? What happened to the Soviet Union when they invaded Afghanistan? Oh yeah there is no Soviet Union. And it WAS NOT Ronny that caused the fall. It was the people after 10 years of watching there sons come home dead. You don't fuck with the middle east. To much history and bad blood there.

[Zenlitened]

41. SpinalTap has left the building. On a gurney.

Off to share his vast military expertise -- and razor-sharp debating skills* -- elsewhere, I'm sure.


*Skills like, "Oh yah, whatta YOU gonna do about it? Huh?"

Gosh, I miss him already.

:D

[iverglas]

42. waste of a fine name, I have to say. n/t

[Lochloosa]

43. Damn...and I was just getting warmed up

[gratuitous]

18. Violence won't end violence

It only leads to greater violence, and more retribution. But why should I or anyone here at DU be offering up solutions? This wretched administration has ignored me for over five years, ridiculed me, called me a traitor, questioned my very right to exist. NOW you want a constructive alternative for how to deal with shitpile that we've created out of Tal Afar?

There's no delicate way to say it and our faultless moderators would simply delete the post anyway (as they should). But if you're looking for solutions that will work, I can only tell you that violence will NOT work.

[SpinalTap]

19. Thats what I talking about

You said "...why should I or anyone here at DU be offering up solutions?"

Thats what I've been trying to say. If we don't offer solutions we have nothing to offer (and people see this).


You then said "violence won't work". Then what will work in Tal Afar? Should we negotiate with the terrorists? Should we make a peace offering? What?

I'm still waiting to hear a single alternative solution to be offered.

[gratuitous]

25. Because nobody in a position to make a difference will listen

Perhaps you've just fallen off a turnip truck. The criminal mob running things in this country governs of themselves, for themselves, and by themselves. Constructive alternatives are wasted on this gang of thugs. I have plenty of suggestions for how to conduct our foreign policy, as do a lot of other folks at DU, but they won't be heeded by anyone in the criminal cabal that's running things -- they wouldn't listen when we marched by the millions in 2002 and 2003, and they're not listening now.

However, as a freebie, here's what the United States should do in regard to Iraq as a whole: Pull out. Quit the country. End this foolish invasion.

On our way out, we should tell the United Nations that it's up to them to deal with setting up a new, representative government in Iraq. Bring in a multinational force to maintain order and keep the peace, and the United States should fund about 90% of it (concomitant with the level of staffing and troop commitment we're providing in the "coalition of the willing"). We should get our greedy, blood-stained mitts off of Iraq and take no further interest in exploiting its people or its resources. Our credibility is shot, our prestige in this part of the world doesn't exist. We've made a colossal blunder, and the only way out is the way we came in.

[stillcool]

28. we should leave....

What business do US troops have in that country? Do you really think that the presence of US troops has any benefit for the Iraqi's? Before you look for solutions, I think you should read more about the 'problem'. And I'm not talking about TalAfar. An excellent book is 'The Sorrows of Empire', by Chalmers Johnson.

[Frederik]

31. There is only one sane solution

to get out of there, ASAP!

[Zenlitened]

35. Give Tal Afar operations to Iraqi forces, No Americans entering the town.

Amrican supervision only.

What do I win? Is there a prize of some kind here?

[Zenlitened]

37. Aw crap, you've already been tombstoned.

'Cuz I was really hoping you'd reply by saying Iraqi forces aren't ready yet. Which is probably true.

But then we have to ask... why not?

This far along in the conflict, there still aren't enough trained Iraqi forces to secure one town?

If that's the case, then the solution is obvious, if massive: It's time to replace the entire American command structure, beginning with the commander-in-chief.

Because this has been the biggest clusterfuck in U.S. military history.

Have a super day.

[bribri16]

14. I thought that we already killed all the civilian there? Wag the dog

in reverse. Wag it over there to keep from having to wag it over here.

[bemildred]

27. Maybe you should finish up with the model city of Fallujah first?

Having more fantasies about "decisive engagements" won't get you far.

[leftchick]

45. decisive engagements always mean

death to thousands. :(

[bemildred]

49. Well, you just can't be "decisive" without lots of dead people.

I mean, that's how it is in the Bruce Willis movies, right?
:puke:

[u2spirit]

30. The headline defines the Bush admin

"Decisively mulling". If your mulling, you're not being decisive. And again Orwell spins.

[Barrett808]

44. Gonna freedomize Tal Afar like we did Fallujah n/t

[KamaAina]

47. Welcome to Tal Afar, Mississippi

And just think, we're gonna wreak all that havoc all by ourselves, without any help from Gawd! Satan, maybe, but certainly not Gawd... :grr: :banghead: :nuke:

edit: spelled out Mississippi in header to avoid confusion

[yellowcanine]

50. How many "decisive attacks/battles" can one war have? Is it decisive if

the war just goes on and on? I don't think so.

[JoFerret]

51. Memo to BushCo

Mull wine not death and devastation.

[nguoihue]

53. Tal Afar?

Damn! And here I thought the invasion and destruction of Falluja "broke the back of the insurgency".

How many more cities, towns, villages and wedding parties to we have to bomb, and kill all of the combatant age males in order to save them?

[Supersedeas]

54. Mission Accomplished? Last Throes??