Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Livingstone likens bomb apologist to reformer Pope John

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 09:35 AM
Original message
Livingstone likens bomb apologist to reformer Pope John
Livingstone likens bomb apologist to reformer Pope John
By Richard Ford, Home Correspondent



KEN LIVINGSTONE provoked outrage yesterday when he compared an outspoken Muslim scholar who backs suicide bombings to the reforming Pope John XXIII.

The Mayor of London said that the position of Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi was similar to that of the late Pope because he was the most senior Islamic scholar saying that Islam must engage with the world.

“Sheik Qaradawi is I think very similar to the position of Pope John XXIII. An absolutely sane Islamist,” Mr Livingstone said.

He said that Sheik Qaradawi was a leading Islamic scholar calling for Islam to engage with the world, supporting democracy in the Middle East and calling for Islam to accept the changing role of women. “Of all the Muslim thinkers in the world today he is the most positive force for change,” he said.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,172-1779505,00.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. Translation: " Qaradawi aintgottaprayer"?
Edited on Wed Sep-14-05 09:39 AM by emad
?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-05 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. Whatever Ken Livingstone said, you can be sure the Times of London has
put it in the wrong context, distorted it, twisted facts and gone out of their way to make Livingstone look bad. They're as bad as WaPo and the NYT doing articles on, say, Hugo Chavez.

Let's look at it...

Their headline: "Livingstone likens bomb apologist to reformer Pope John"

What the article actually says about Al-Qaradawi: "Al-Qaradawi condemned the terrorist attacks in London but he has described suicide bombings in Israel as martyrdom operations. He has also been criticized by Jewish and gay rights groups who accused him of anti-Semitism and homophobia."

Ah, so! He CONDEMNED the London bombings! Hm-m. But described Palestinian suicide bombers as "martyrs"--as they see themselves. Is that being an "apologist," or is it having compassion for their desperation? Just giving them a sympathetic word makes him an "apologist"? Doesn't "kamakaze" mean something similar? Martyr for the Emperor? Are we wrong to use the Japanese word for what the Japanese "kamakaze" pilots thought they were doing?

"...condemned the terrorist attacks in London...".

------

And here's what Livingstone said (if the Times can be relied upon to even quote him accurately--they start off without quotation marks):

"He said that Sheik Qaradawi was a leading Islamic scholar calling for Islam to engage with the world, supporting democracy in the Middle East and calling for Islam to accept the changing role of women. 'Of all the Muslim thinkers in the world today he is the most positive force for change,' he said."

His topic was NOT suicide bombers, the London bombers, or martyrdom. His topic was: where is there hope among Islamic scholars?

And bear in mind that this is the MAYOR OF LONDON--not likely to give much quarter to anyone who promotes suicide bombing. He sees hope there. That's all he said. Because of some things the scholar said about opening up and liberalizing Islam.

Is this Islamic scholar in any different position than a western politician who might have to make some statements appeasing Israel--and ignoring or justifying her more aggressive and violent acts--in order to get a peace negotiation going?

------

"Livingstone likens bomb apologist to reformer Pope John."

------

I am very familiar with the writings of Pope John XXIII and with the ecumenical movement that he started, and I quite agree with Livingstone that Pope John XXIII would have favored the pursuit of every opportunity for dialogue, and for the peaceful resolution of differences and disputes.

If Pope John XXIII were alive today, he would likely be searching the horizon for Islamic scholars who provided some common ground. And what Sheik Qaradawi said about Islam is, indeed, what Pope John said about Catholicism--to engage the world, to support and be comfortable with democratic process, and to acknowledge the changing role of women. (It was during his tenure that woman were first permitted within the altar sanctuary during Mass, as deacons and altar girls--in 1,500 years!)

-------

"Livingstone likens bomb apologist to reformer Pope John."

That is a truly rotten headline. The article then quotes two Blairites who disagree with Livingstone, and no one in support. And they bury way down in the article Livingstone's remarks about safety measures in London (against terrorist bombings).

It truly resembles our corporate media hit pieces. Nasty headline. Opportunity for the right to react and characterize. The target left dangling in the wind. (Lack of quotes and facts that support the target.)

-------

The U.S. media describes Hugo Chavez as "increasingly authoritarian," "according to his critics"--no quotes, no names--and then they fail to mention that he was twice elected by 60% majorities in heavily monitored elections; that all such monitors including the Carter Center said the elections were honest; and they give not one shred of evidence of Chavez's "authoritarianism," and ignore much evidence to the contrary.

--------

"He has also been criticized by Jewish and gay rights groups who accused him of anti-Semitism and homophobia." --Times of London

No quotes, no names, no evidence. Use of the passive tense ("he has also BEEN CRITICIZED"). Are these criticisms even correct? (anti-Semitic? homophobic?) (Is Sheik Qaradawi any more homophobic than the Catholic Church is? Is he anti-Semitic, or is he anti-Israel, or anti-rightwing Israel? No clue.)

Two targets here--Livingstone, whose remarks are mischaracterized in the headline and mistreated in the text. (Pope John WAS ecumenical!) And Qaradawi, whose condemnation of the London bombings is very inacurately left out of the headline, and whose critics are allowed free reign, with no accountability (no names, no quotes, no facts, no way to track these opinions down and judge their accuracy).

---------

The London Times is about as trustworthy of our own corporate press. Not very.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Qaradawi: vociferous proponent of beating women, executing gays
mass murder of homosexuals and female genital mutilation.

Qaradawi has openly stated that the punishment for homosexuality should be death, in order "to maintain the purity of Islamic society and to keep it clean of perverted elements". Similarly, Qaradawi has said that he "personally supports" female genital mutilation and has stated that husbands should be allowed to hit their wives if any signs of "disobedience or rebelliousness" are shown.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Perhaps you could link us to those details.
Dr. al Qaradawi is considered one of the most temperate Islamic thinkers, and as one of those who combine traditional knowledge of the Shariah with an understanding of contemporary problems (fiqh al waqi'). Indeed, Dr. Qaradawi's writings have found general acceptance among all sectors of the Muslim world, and many of his works have been translated into various Muslim and other languages.

www.islamfortoday.com/qaradawi.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Recent BBC Newsnight interview by Jeremy Paxman.
Edited on Thu Sep-15-05 10:21 AM by emad
EDIT:

Defending suicide bombings that target Israeli civilians Sheikh A-Qaradawi told the BBC programme Newsnight that "an Israeli woman is not like women in our societies, because she is a soldier.

"I consider this type of martyrdom operation as an evidence of God's justice.

"Allah Almighty is just; through his infinite wisdom he has given the weak a weapon the strong do not have and and that is their ability to turn their bodies into bombs as Palestinians do".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3874893.stm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I read the interview & don't want to be his friend....
But where are the references to "beating women" & "genital mutilation"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. This internet link only part of the Paxman interview. Full transcipt
not available but BBC Newsnight programmes should all be online by early next month according to the BBC promotional being aired.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. "kamikaze" means 'divine wind' (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. As in trapped wind...
A lot of fundementalist hot air.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC