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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 03:24 AM
Original message
Commission urges major changes for U.S. voters
Sept. 19, 2005, 1:52AM

Commission urges major changes for U.S. voters
Photo IDs and paper trails for electronic voting recommended
By DAN BALZ
Washington Post

WASHINGTON - Warning that public confidence in the nation's election system is flagging, a commission headed by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James A. Baker III will call today for significant changes in how Americans vote, including photo IDs for all voters, verifiable paper trails for electronic voting machines and impartial administration of elections.

The report concludes that, despite changes required under the Help America Vote Act of 2002, far more must be done to restore integrity to an election system that suffers from sloppy management, treats voters differently from state to state and within states and too often frustrates rather than encourages voters' efforts to participate in what is considered a basic American right.

The 2002 federal legislation grew out of the disputed election of 2000 and is not yet fully implemented. But the Carter-Baker commission said that, even with some important changes in place, the 2004 election was marred by many of the same errors seen in 2000.
(snip)

Disputes over the counting of provisional ballots, the accuracy of registration lists, long lines at some polling places, timely administration of absentee ballots and questions about the security of some electronic voting machines tarnished the 2004 elections.
(snip/...)

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3359322
(Free registration required)
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 03:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. I "heart" Jimmy Carter
He is probably one of the MOST underrated Presidents of all time.
:applause:
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mazzarro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes indeed! (eom)
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. ONE of the most underrated?
Edited on Mon Sep-19-05 01:58 PM by ih8thegop
He was THE most underrated. OTOH, there was Madison.

BTW, I "heart" him too. :loveya:
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #28
54. Me three hearts him! n/t
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Callisto Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
61. I love Jimmy too!
James Earl got the blame for so many things in his presidency- Too bad his handlers weren't as savvy as Bush's!Never heard James Earl blame anyone. He rocks!
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DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. James Baker III he was the guy who said
back in April 01' at a round table meeting with Energy Giants,Big Oil
Communications and some Warhawks also Kenron Lay was present Baker says,the advance of PNAC will likely be a slow one absent some cata
stropic and catalyizing event like a New Pearl Harbor.James Baker
ranking member of Carlyle Group,a nest of murdering thieves knew how
to shape public opinion,that sneak attack on 911 worked well for a
short time.
Baker looking for honesty in voting, thats a tough sell...
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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
52. Rep. Conyers is VERY Upset About the Baker-Carter Election "Reforms"
http://www.conyersblog.us

Five Pillars Without Any Legs

I just received a report about a rather strange gathering of the Baker Carter election reform commission. In a small, cramped room in the Capitol, President Jimmy Carter, James A. Baker, III, and more than a dozen other commissioners discussed the Report of the Baker-Carter Commission on Federal Election Reform in advance of the press conference scheduled for 1:30pm today. During the meeting, President Carter assailed the recent passage of the Georgia state voter ID law, which requires voters to pay out-of-pocket for an identification card in order to vote, and like a proud father, applauded his Commission for coming up with what he considers a viable solution.

President Carter naively argued that he supported the idea of a federally mandated voter ID requirement because the federalgovernment would incur the costs for voters to obtain the necessary identification--he takes an "everybody wins" approach. Carter's assessment of the Commission's proposed "solution" is way off the mark. Just as many provisions of Republican sponsored legislation have gone unfunded, this voter ID requirement will meet the same sticky feet and the voters will have to pick up the tab at the end of the day--and that's only if they're lucky. If they're not lucky, they will not get to vote at all--this is the more likely result of a federally mandated voter ID system.

Although most of the commissioners danced around the contentious issues in the report, tip-toeing as if they were walking on eggshells, George Washington University Law Professor Spencer Overton, in a brave act of defiance, stated the case for his dissent, remarking that the identification requirement suggested by the report made it impossible for him to side with some of his friends on the Commission. Professor Overton stressed that no evidence was ever presented that voter fraud is rampant in the electoral system--that one or two incidents does not equate to rampancy. He stated rather poignantly that this was "a solution in search of a problem" and that rather than addressing the unsubstantiated problem of fraud, an identification requirement would disenfranchise minority, poor, and elderly voters, and would set America back 40 years. Unfortunately, his statements seemed to have fallen on deaf ears, as former Washington Secretary of State, Ralph Munro retorted in exasperation that regardless of what one person may think about one small part of the report, this is a report that will advance our country for years to come.

One question left unanswered by this Commission: How do we expect to move forward when 10 million voters are left behind?

~~~~STOP JAMES BAKER, III FROM DOING IT AGAIN



Cross-posted at BRAD BLOG

I have spent my more than 40 years in public service fighting for voting rights and a better democracy. Today, I am sad to say, there are proposals being made that would set us back in that struggle. A privately funded, unaccountable Commission organized by former Bush-Cheney campaign lawyer James Baker, III, and former President Jimmy Carter issued a report today that includes policy proposals that will disenfranchise over ten percent of eligible voters – a national ID requirement to vote. I need your help to fight this 21st Century poll tax today.

The simple fact is that many minority and poor voters do not have the time, money or need to purchase a drivers license. In fact, over ten percent of eligible voters in the last election did not have a photo ID. They vote by presenting other means of identification (a voter registration card, utility bill, or affidavit). This Commission is now asking Congress to deny the franchise to those voters unless they get a national ID card. The Commission makes the implausible claim that, in these times of a multibillion dollar war in Iraq and multibillion dollar restoration of the Gulf Coast, the Congress will pay for ID cards for those who cannot afford to buy them. We know this is not going to happen.

Even if you are not among these vulnerable populations, this affects you. The institution of a National ID card has throughout our history been the tool of every despotic regime the world has known. This recommendation, coupled with the Commission’s recommendation of interoperable data bases of voters, is the first step toward data bases of American citizens.

Make no mistake about it, this national ID voting card is more of the same old Ken Blackwell-style Republican electoral dirty tricks, where Democratic voters are deliberately disenfranchised so that Republicans can win elections. Remember the lack of voting machines in Ohio for Democratic voters? Remember the machines that broke down or registered strange numbers of votes for George Bush or unknown third party candidates? Remember Ken Blackwell’s paper weight requirements for voter registration cards?

Imagine if the Republican party can, in one fell swoop, legally prohibit more than ten percent of voters, most of them poor, minority and elderly voters, most of them Democratic voters, from being able to vote.

Please help me today. I have made the front page of my website into an action center on this issue. It will be constantly updated with actions you can take to help and up to the minute news on this issue. Thanks for your help and your continued stand for a better democracy


:shrug: :kick: :kick: :kick: NOMINATED
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
55. YES...James Baker is a crook...he's part of Bushco!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. Right, Baker is a crook...he's part of Bushco & Carlyle...
Carter and Baker will call today for significant changes in how Americans vote, including photo IDs for all voters, verifiable paper trails for electronic voting machines and impartial administration of elections. (perhaps in time for 2006 elections?)

Sounds just hunky-dory as a token jesture only to be turned down by the House & Senate -- We can say they tried right? And there's realism NOT pessimism in my opinion. - What are the chances as Kentucky was Diebolded three months ago of changes being made -> BEFORE 06 elections?

http://downingstreetmemo.com/
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. Who gave this commission its mandate? And will anything be done
about their recommendations?

It sounds alright up front, but the recommendations of so many commissions over so many years have come to naught. Presidents in general, and * in particular, have denigrated and ignored recommendations by commissions they themselves empowered.

:shrug:
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Get one step ahead of reform and then you can head it off at the pass
I say don't go over the top of mountain, burrow through it

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020726.html
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
42. I say take the mountain to the people
It's all in that report, what happens with it depends on the people. Piss on it and guarantee that only THEIR agenda gets discussed, or take the report and pull out the good things and focus on that. Because ALL the necessary reform is recommended, if people would actually read the report and not the commentary about the report.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=1376
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #42
50. Yea, just don't try it at home
After having to download the new 27+ mg Adobe 7.0 Reader to find out none any of part of links for the report works anyway, like isn't that the same ole thing.

A 7.6 mg report, is a lot of stuff is it not? Sure sounds like someone is trying erect mountains to me anyway :shrug:

COMMISSION ON FEDERAL ELECTION REFORM
http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/

Btw maybe I will try them links again later, but any rate thanks for the links :-)
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #50
72. Why'd you do that???
Just click on the link to each section, they open right up. Why would you download the whole thing???
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
58. Will changes be made BEFORE 2006 elections...?
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cramerica Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
66. Exactly
Urge, little committee! Urge like the wind!
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. Photo IDs disenfranchise the poor, knowing the social and birthdate should
be sufficient.

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Tiggeroshii Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
62. How do they disenfranchise the poor?
I haven't quite understood that notion. Is it because people get their photo id's mostly through driver's licenses and such which typically cost money? I'm not sure how it would disenfranchise them.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. Duh, the poor don't drive, they get evicted, move often, use checkcashers
don't have checking accounts. They are also the victims of crime more often.
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Tiggeroshii Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
63. I get it... poll tax
I saw O Liely's thing on it and I was sure something was missing, as always. And it was! They don't mention they were being charged for voting!

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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #63
73. When you have no ID it is very hard to get ID. When you hane no $
and no car it is even harder. The GOP does not want po folks voting period.
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Tiggeroshii Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Yeah...
I have never really thought about that enough I guess, but it's really true....
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. When I call someone who needs to make sure I am who I say I am
all I need is my last 3 digits of my social and my birthdate.

Beside poll books have signature comparison and polling places are in the neighborhood. Voter fraud is not how elections are being stolen in 2000 & 2004. It is through suppression of the black vote.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
70. While the poor maybe cannot afford a drivers license
they always need ID for other things. To get almost any of the social programs both fed/state/county they need to prove their ID. If they require photo ID this can be used for all these other things. The state should provide this ID for little or nothing if it is required.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
7. Be careful with photo IDs
Look what's happening in Georgia. Photo IDs are required and not all citizens have one. The state is requiring those without one to purchase a state ID which costs around $20. This is, in essence, a poll tax.

This is a subject that needs a lot of inspection.
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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Free ID
As part of the suggestions, ID's would have to be provided free.

That being said, I know they will still take time and effort to get.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. That's a better idea (nt)
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. It's the right thing to do. Absolutely. n/t
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
48. National Identity Cards. I'm against them in any form.
Your papers, pleaze! Ve must see your papers!

No way, no how, in no form.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #48
71. As one of the poor in the US it is obvious that
except for the cost this will be nothing new to us. We are asked for our birth certificates, baptism forms, social security cards, drivers license every time we apply for help and we are asked for bank and wage info every month. It is the middle class that should be worried about ID cards, far too late for the rest of us.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
65. And what ID would the poor use to get their free ID. How would the poor
find out about the free ID and how would they get there?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. On the other side though
It also recommends provisionals be counted where many precincts are in one building, state voter databases, and numbered registration cards with receipts. A free photo ID is a good trade-off for some of these other things.
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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
8. NYT: Panel Will Propose New Calendar for Primaries (ele reform)
WASHINGTON, Sept. 18 - A private commission led by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James A. Baker III is proposing new steps to strengthen state election procedures and recommending that Congress require the political parties to hold four regional presidential primaries in election years rather than allowing states to hold primaries whenever they wish.

....

"The American people are losing confidence in the system, and they want electoral reform," Mr. Carter said in a statement.

....

The commission said it was worthwhile for Iowa and New Hampshire to continue to vote first because "they test the candidates by genuine retail, door-to-door campaigning." But four regional contests afterward, the panel said, would "expand participation in the process" and "give voters the chance to closely evaluate the presidential candidates over a three- to four-month period

NY Times Article w/ Specific Suggestions
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shoelace414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. excellent
perhaps we can change the general election voting day to a weekend too.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
32. Or a special holiday could be made.
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. I like regional primaries because they will force the candidates. . .
to deal with specific problems endemic to specific areas, instead of mouthing simple platitudes for general consumption.

Also, focusing on a particular region cuts down on the amount of travel required, costs less money, and will hopefully give a closer look at the way a candidate thinks and acts, aside from the "flutter by" look we presently get as candidates hop, skip, and jump around the nation.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
14. This is a private commission trying to act like a public one, and which
...gave itself a mandate to "report to Congress." Its origins are murky (American University). It's headed by a guy who hangs out with neocons and pushed the Iraq war. It was stacked with electronic voting interests, and excluded other testimony--in the couple of poorly publicized "hearings" that it held in DC and Houston.

They call themselves "commissioners." They are nothing of the kind. There is nothing official about them, and Congress did not solicit this "report"--although the Bush Cartel probably did. Grand self-written title: "The Commission on Federal Election Reform"; "under the auspices of American University's Center for Democracy and Election Management."

For further info, see: DU's "2004 Election Results and Discussion Forum," where considerable work has been done on this private "commission" that sprang out of nowhere with James Baker co-chairing with Jimmy Carter. In particular, see today's notices at:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x394051

And see the web sites listed below.

James Baker is a snake in the grass--a major Bush Cartel player, who engineered coup I, in 2000. I'm still not sure what to think of Carter's role. He sometimes puts himself in pretty dicey situations to help warring parties reach a peaceful resolution. I'm not ruling out that he may be trying to do good. Just don't know. And I'm very, very, VERY suspicious of this group.

My major concern is that what is happening here is federalization of our elections under Bush Cartel (and Diebold and ES&S) control--in order to head off real reform in local/state venues, where the power over election systems still resides (as per the Constitution) and where ordinary people still have some influence.

The Voter ID is chilling and extremely scary. But what is equally scary is the call for uniform standards. I completely disagree with this. I think the variety we have in our states is our strength--because what's to stop this very terrible Congress from forbidding paper ballots (our best guarantee of all votes being counted) as "not uniform"? And what's to stop them from MANDATING paperless electronic voting, or half-assed "paper trail" voting, or even designating Bushite electronic voting machine companies as the only ones who "meet the uniform standards"?

They're doing it with Halliburton in New Orleans (as they did in Iraq)--only Halliburton was ready, only Halliburton was qualified, i.e., no-bid, no competition contracts, with profits guaranteed and no performance conditions.

As for Congress doing anything positive on this matter, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha....

I'm sorry. It's just too funny. Bush "pod people" in Congress are the ones who set about deliberately to corrupt our election system forevermore, by appropriating $4 billion to the states--back in 2001-2002--for the purchase of electronic voting systems from major Bush donors and campaign chairs and far rightwing billionaires (Diebold and ES&S, mostly), with no ban on "trade secret" vote tabulation, no ban on corporate partisanship (like head of Diebold being Bush/Cheney campaign chair in Ohio), no auditing controls (Tom Delay blocked even the minimal accountability of a "paper trail"), and no controls on lavish lobbying and "revolving door" employment.

It was made to order for fraud.

What they created was a boondoggle, with these Bushite companies selling shoddy wares to the states--extremely unreliable, insecure, hackable computers, that no one in officialdom (let alone most voters) understood--with contracts that permitted SECRET, PROPRIETARY vote tabulation, and that hogtied the states to expensive, long term servicing contracts, which, among other evils, permits on-going access to voting machines and voting data by private company personnel, and even internal modems by which the company can access the voting machinery.

Absolutely, mind-bogglingly corrupt, in every way. And most of the Dem election officials fell for it, too--or loved that lavish lobbying!

Check out this hogfest at the Beverly Hilton this August--a week of fun, sun and high-end shopping for election officials from around the country, sponsored by Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia. It'll burn your eyeballs.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340


Our former Repub Sec of State in Calif, Bill Jones, and his chief aide Alfie Charles, who authorized electronic voting systems including Sequoia systems in Calif, now work for Sequoia.

The man who succeeded him, Dem Kevin Shelley--a leader among the few honest Sec's of State in the country--was driven from office, on trivial, unproven charges of corruption, after he sued Diebold and decertified the worst of their election theft machines, and provided Californians with a paper ballot option, prior to the 2004 election. The corruption? He was accused of "misusing" HAVA funds. And what was that about (upon investigation)? He refused to release HAVA funds to county officials for the purchase of shoddy, unreliable, insecure electronic voting machines that could not produce a paper trail!

A total railroad, it was. I think black ops by the Bush Cartel.

One of the people who drove him from office was the Dem head of elections in Los Angeles, Connie McCormack, who is an advocate of Diebold and paperless voting, and whose best friend--who she wines and dines and vacations with--is Deborah Seiler, former chief salesperson for Diebold in Calif.

So, if you're wondering why Dems would be SO INSANE as to permit BUSHITE CORPORATIONS to get SECRET CONTROL over vote tabulation, this is why: corruption. (--and I think there are some other reasons, connected to the grass roots antiwar movement that elected John Kerry--some Dem powers did not want a prez who was beholden to the antiwar grass roots.)

When computer expert Kim Alexander--who runs a public education web site on electronics in government--challenged McCormack's faith in these electronic systems, McCormack's reply was, "She's not a professional."

So that's what it comes down to. A snobbish elite of lavishly lobbied election officials lording and ladying it--with the esoteric gobble-de-gook of electronic voting--over the dumb voters who haven't a clue any more how their votes are counted. And unless you're "one of them" (bought and paid for), you're not "a professional."

Connie McCormack was a featured speaker at the hogfest at the Beverly Hilton. (One of the things she said about Shelley, in a CA leg meeting, was she wanted to "bulldoze" his office, to get at that HAVA loot..ahem, to get him to release the funds for the election theft machines...)

This phony report, assembled by this phony private "commission," says nothing about the secret, proprietary programming code owned and controlled by Bushite corporations, according to the news reports. Nor did the recent DNC report (written by pre-Deaners, the people who threw the election).

I mean, WHAT ELSE IS THERE to talk about? Phony election, "tabulated" by Busites behind closed doors. Phony commission, with phony, official-sounding name. Phony reports. Phony Democrats. Thieving, murdering Republicans, and rampant fascism, with the poor and the weak and the black left to rot and die.

It's not that there were PROBLEMS in the 2004 election (as this phony private "commission" is apparently saying). It's that the election SYSTEM itself was FRAUDULENT going in. It was non-transparent, and unverifiable, and the Bushites obviously used that non-transparency--intentionally set up beforehand--to steal another election.

What will happen when Bush's "pod people" in Congress gets its hands on this report, is that they will use it to require a uniform Voter ID across the country, by which they will centralize voter data and purge large numbers of Democrats from the voting rolls. A few good Dems may squawk, to no avail. And that will be the end of our democracy.

They don't even have to do anything further. But they probably will go further, and lock the thing up hard and fast, by requiring electronic voting and eliminating paper ballots, in all states. And that will be the end of hope for our election reform movement. The only remedy then will be secession from the union.

Theoretically, the Constitution protects the states' right to control elections. But this Congress is capable of, literally, anything--and might just ignore that provision, too (along with the Bill of Rights, and the balance of powers--and laws against torture and preemptive war). Some Sec's of State might object--it's their bailiwick, after all. And, in that case, they might try to do it under the "uniform standards" banner--claiming that they are not changing the Constitution.

I fear the worst.

I am not surprised by it, though. This report was as expected. Some on the DU elections thread thinks it's hopeful that they're even talking about a "paper trail"--because that wasn't in anyone's consciousness a year ago. And the call for non-partisan election administration is good. Yeah, well. They'll cherry pick this report--just as they did Iraq intel--and take the bad (Voter ID) and ignore the good.

It could be said that our democracy ended on Nov. 2, 2004. If so, the moment of its ending occurred late that day, when the TV networks, acting in concert, FALSIFIED their own exit polls (which Kerry won) to "fit" the "official result" derived from Diebold's and ES&S's SECRET, PROPRIETARY formulae (Bush won)--thus denying the American people major evidence of election fraud, and squelching protests and calls for investigation.

The war profiteering corporate news monopolies had never breathed a word about the secret programming or who now owns and controls our elections. They could hardly be bothered even to notice massive violations of the Voting Rights Act in Ohio. Nor did the Democratic leadership. There was a conspiracy to keep the Bush Cartel in power for more looting by the very rich, is all I can figure.

The election system failed us.
The Democrats failed us.
Journalism failed us.

What is left of our democracy?

---------

But it's not over yet, and never will be, as long as the dream of democracy is alive in some hearts. For those who want to help restore our right to vote, here are two good web sites for information and action suggestions:

USCountVotes.org: They have a plan to monitor the 2006 elections, and be ready with statistical info to help challenge any questionable results. They need donations!

VotersUnite.org: (Note: .org NOT .com). They publish an excellent pamphlet called "Myth Breakers," which simply and clearly explains the problems with electronic voting, and how to fix them. They urge you to send this pamphlet to all election officials and other reps.

Freepress.org, Bradblog.com and Solarbus.org are also excellent sites for election information.

-------

We need...

Paper ballots hand-counted at the precinct level (--Canada does it in one day, although speed should not even be a consideration, just accuracy and verifiability)

or, at the least...

Paper ballot (not "paper trail") backup of all electronic voting, a 10% automatic recount, very strict security, and NO SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code! (...jeez!).



-----

You know what the difference is between Venezuela and the United States? Venezuela also has electronic voting, but they have OPEN SOURCE CODE--so that anyone may inspect how the votes are tabulated.

Open source code = good president.

Secret, proprietary source code = bad president.


It's pretty simple, really.

(Transparent elections are a no-brainer--and if they'd wanted a transparent election in 2004, why didn't we have one?)

------

Note: The difference between a "paper trail" and a "paper ballot" is that a "paper ballot" has legal standing in any recounts or audits. It takes precedence over any electronic results. A "paper trail" has no such standing, and can be discarded in favor of the "results" produced by the secret electronic programming code.
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. A whitewash about paper trails, and photo-ID's are bad, bad news.
I just ordered a big bumper sticker that says

YOUR VOTE DOESN'T COUNT

We have seen it unfold before our eyes in California, with our Dem Secretary of State, who fought Diebold, being replaced by a Republican hack like Blackwell or Harris. Now Schwarzenegger is blatantly announcing his intention to run again, despite 35 percent approval ratings.

This commission is simply an attempt to "create reality." When they steal the next round of elections, they can point back to this and everyone will say shame, shame for doubting this administration.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
37. It's a GOOD report
This is fucking sad that far left ideology will prevent people from speaking out on the good in this report. Then it will be their own damned fault if the few tweaks that are needed don't get implemented, because people like you convinced them the whole thing was shit. It's not. Most of it is actually very good and addresses everything voting rights activists wanted addressed.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #37
59. After the House & Senate? - Don't hold your breath...!
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
51. Short reply to your LOOOOOONG POST
I live in a small town in CT. The law in Ct. states that in order to vote you must have a form of ID. I use my license. I have two Senior clients who no longer drive, but are allowed to use their library card, or medicare card as ID. We have had no problems with the system. I am member of the Dem. Town committee, and was a voting checker at our headquarters the night of the election in '04. We use the old fashioned voting machines (mechanical) we have never had any problems with over votes or under votes. Names on street lists are crossed off as they enter to vote. Lists are sent to headquarters to match names to registered voters, by street as each list is completed. It is very easy to reconcile the votes this way. We have two people (one from each party) that count the absentee ballots. I don't understand what the big deal is with ID's in order to vote! If someone comes in without one, they get a provisional ballot. Of course we only have one voting place in town which makes it a hell of a lot easier.
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Gnostic Donating Member (269 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-05 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #14
77. Awesome post
And VERY informative. Thanks.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 11:26 AM
Original message
Panel recommends paper trail for electronic voting
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-09-19-improving-elections_x.htm

Former President Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker, the panel's co-leaders, cited the loss of confidence in a report they were to deliver Monday to President Bush and Congress. Among the commission's recommendations:

• Congress should pass a law requiring voter-verifiable paper audit trails on all electronic voting machines.

• The presidential primary system should be reorganized into four regional primaries, held after the first-in-the-nation Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire primary. A regional primary would take place each month from March to June.

• All "legitimate domestic and international election observers" should be granted unrestricted access to the election process, within the rules of the election.

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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
15. wooHoo!
give us PAPER-TRAILS (VVPB) NOW :bounce:

peace
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In Truth We Trust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
16. NO! We NEED Paper ballots NOW!!! Hand counts NOW!!!
Nothing less and nothing more!
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. "voter-verifiable paper audit trails"
thats what they are talking about

peace
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. It addresses that too
While it doesn't require the paper be the ballot, it does say that issue should be addressed and states should clarify whether the machine or the paper is the official ballot. So that is up to us to demand that the paper be the ballot.

And forget the stupid hand count shit, it isn't going to happen and diverts needed energy from the important issue, having the paper be the official ballot.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Nonetheless, a SAMPLE of the paper ballots should be counted ...
... to assure the automated count is materially accurate with 95% probability. I won't go into the details of such a requirement, which would require sample sizes according to the margin of votes in each election or ballot measure, but such a check would offer a level of confidence close to that of a 100% hand count, at less cost.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. That's recommended too, in fact
Perhaps people should read the actual REPORT, not what the media chose to pick out. What a concept, get the facts before you rip it apart. Not that I don't think it won't be picked apart anyway, that's all some people live for.
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In Truth We Trust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #23
76. I resent you characterizing a demand for hand counts as "stupid".
Frankly my immediate reaction is trhat you must be stupid to not know that hand counts is the most tamper proof method and would certainly prevent widespread fraWd such as what we witnessed in 02 and certainly 04.

Canada with 30 million people do it in a matter of hours. Switzerlan and many intelligent progreesive countries with honest election histories do this way as well. Who the hell are you to decide whats "winnable" or "do-able". Yor position wreaks of dlc type pragmatism and that certainly has gotten us where we are today.

I prefer to stand upon principle and fair and honest elections. You can choose your own path but you don't speak for me and many,many more enlightend people here.
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BSDRebel Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
19. what about open source code?
This is not enough. How can we expect voters to keep all their rolls? Will there be multiple copies of the voter rolls distributed to several offices, including all the political parties participating, and maybe independent databases? What about open-source code, to be approved by independent elections commissioners?

This is not enough. I use BSD Unix with KDE desktop environment and a whole host of other open source software and it works. Why can't we develop effective, stable, open source, voting machines?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Not open source, but open to inspection
I would have preferred more specificity, but it does say the voting machine software should be in an escrow and open to inspection by testing authorities and independent experts. So that's something to build on. Here's what I quickly pulled out of the report:

To enhance ballot integrity, states should require voters to present a REAL ID card at the polls and provide non-drivers with a free photo ID card for voting, but during a transition, citizens without a card should be permitted to vote with a provisional ballot.

States should make voter registration and IDs accessible to all eligible citizens by using mobile offices and other means to register more voters and issue photo ID cards. States should oversee voter registration lists and verify the accuracy of the information produced by the counties. They also recommended numbered voter registration forms with receipts, so that voter registration can be easily tracked.

Congress should pass a law to require voter-verifiable paper audit trails on all electronic voting machines, and the EAC needs to take additional steps to ensure those machines are secure and accessible for people with disabilities. The states should also rectify whether the machine vote or the paper is the official ballot. In addition, voting machines manufacturers should be required to place the source code in escrow to be made available to testing authorities and independent experts. Local jurisdictions should also document every change to computer hardware or software.

The U.S. Election Assistance Commission and state election management institutions should be strengthened and reconstituted on a nonpartisan basis and no member of an election commission should serve on any campaign other than their own.

The report reminds us that the public owns the air waves and some members of the commission recommended legislation to require free air time. They also recommended that projected winners not be announced into polls have closed across the entire country. Sadly, they have taken the position that exit polls are not reliable, without fully investigating how this phenomenon suddenly began to occur in 2000 and just in the US, not other countries where polls are used to verify election integrity.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=1376
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
46. If not open-sorce, not worth anything.
No way to ensure there are no backdoors unless ANYONE can see the code.

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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. Please explain to me how photo ID's help anything.
Perhaps when you first register to vote, but not thereafter.

Are we going to train poll workers on how to verify ID with a photo? How to detect a fake ID?

Is there a challenge procedure? A provisional ballot procedure?

Does a poll worker get to deny a person a ballot if they think they don't look enough like their picture?

It is a FELONY to sign the affadavit claiming to be someone you are not in order to vote.

If your name is on the voter roll, and you sign the affadavit and provide some kind of evidence that you are who you say you are, that should be plenty.
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PurgedVoter Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. Jimmy Carter got his start after seeing how bad elections were.
The photo Id, will strongly reduce the amount of dead people voting. As long as it's not a national ID, I'm ok with using a drivers license.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. Dead people voting is a problem of accurate voter rolls,
not photo ID's.
How do citizens get more updated information than the government anyway?

Dead people should not be on the voter roll. If the government can't even keep their voter rolls up to date, what makes us think they will be able to manage a photo ID program?

As usual, the solution here is to cast too wide a net and restrict the rights of legitimate voters with no chance of actually succeeding.

I love JC, but this part is BS. I heard him speak recently, and he talked about elections in China. Apparently they have local elections, just not national elections. Anyway, he told of how 800,000 towns and villages conducted elections on pieces of paper, and the counting went smoothly and quickly. He didn't say anything about picture ID's for all those elections.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Afghanistan's elections
You might say they went smoothly too, for a third world country. But they also know they had ten year olds voting, people who they suspect voted twice, and women who didn't know how to vote at all. And a few killings, warlords posting their campaign material all over, and driving people to the polls. Still, for a country that is just starting to vote, it went fairly smoothly. There's no comparison and people who try to do that would have a shit fit if they actually participated in an election in one of these other countries that they like to tout as fair and accurate, for any reason.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #27
69. How middleclass of you to think that everyone has a drivers license
The GOP is not stealing elections with dead voters. This is a red herring.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
24. Jimmy Carter and Jim BAKER?!
That's the oddest of the odd couples. Nothing will get done--they'll cancel each other out on every issue!
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
25. One more recommendation makes five.
Let's hope this helps... "erroneous" felon purges and hour plus waits are unacceptable.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Recommends felons vote
Just a little ditty in the report, but it's in there.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. So? If they've paid their debt, I say let them vote.
Keeping felons from voting was part of a plan to disenfranchise black people, wasn't it?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Yeah, the recommendation is in the report
That's what you would want, right? Felons should be able to vote.

How many people on the left do you think will even point that out? I'm betting none, because they might have to say something positive about something Baker and mainstream Dems were involved with and that wouldn't sit well with the fuck all the politicians far left agenda.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. What "fuck all the politicians far left agenda" are you talking about?
:crazy:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Let's just watch, mkay?
We'll get back together in a week or two and see if one good thing in this report is being backed by the far left, or whether all we end up with is pissing all over it and then complaining about the no-balls Dems because the right gets their agenda implemented, in full.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Sure...
whatever...
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Alizaryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
30. Please check out Rep Conyers' concerns.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
33. Divine Justice: This article is from the Houston Chronicle.
Experience with the non-plan to help NOLA evacuees may be making Texas a little more cynical of the present administration. :evilgrin:
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UDenver20 Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
39. HECK YEA....
Absolutely!

I'll trade you photo IDs for a verifiable paper-trail ANY DAY.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
44. Absentee voting vs. voter ID card
In California one can become a permanent absentee voter on request without the need to justify it. The article didn't mention absentee voting regulation. Does anyone know if it's addressed in the report? If you'd like to talk fraud, consider that the only proof offered is that the mailed ballot went to an address in the district and someone signed the affidavit. I doubt that all the signatures are compared to those only file because the rate of absentee voting here is very high.

Has anyone ever seen reliable data on fraudulent voting patterns at polling places? I doubt there's much in most areas. To the extent it exists it has been enhanced by the relaxing of residency requirements, a stipulation that was in place to prevent people from voting in more than one polling place. With the electronic voter registration information this sort of roll cleansing should be automatic. Election manipulation via disenfranchisement or passive discouragement (e.g. limited hours, long lines)on the other hand is probably more common.

Requiring ID at the polling place will discourage voting without fixing the problem of fraudulent voting. It's another piece of window-dressing to alleviate public concern and cloud the real problems with local regulations against felons, residency proofs, etc. If it is adopted along with recommendation to fix other problems, attributing the success to the appropriate reform measure will be difficult. Politicians can say election fraud was reduced because of voter ID cards without any evidence to back it up.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. replying to my own question re: absentee voting
the commission's only ongoing proof requirement is that the ballot signature be compared to a digitized signature on file. That ignores the coercive effect of others on people in nursing homes or other situations where someone else may control their food schedule etc, and it does nothing to stop fraud by buying votes, or signatures faked with a small modicum of skill. It also will cause problems for voters who have had health changes that affect their vision or fine motor skills.
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
47. kick nt
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
49. David Corn comments on Carter
Edited on Mon Sep-19-05 09:57 PM by realFedUp
www.davidcorn.com

snip from A STATESMAN AND A PITBULL

The commission needed two big poohbahs--one from each party--as its cochairmen. The Democratic side was represented by Carter, who has been an election observer around the globe and whose center has been involved in election monitoring internationally. The GOP side was represented by the fellow who led the party's partisan effort to manipulate the voting system to its advantage in the Florida fiasco of 2000. During that mess, Baker repeatedly showed that he cared about winning more than he fancied truth or fair voting. As I noted in The Lies of George W. Bush, Baker repeatedly mischaracterized the recounts in Florida in order to discount and undermine them. He also resorted to falsehoods when necessary. (For instance, he claimed a recount law signed by Bush in Texas was nothing like the one in Florida. Baker was wrong; the laws were quite similar, with both affording voter-counters in recounts wide discretion in assessing ballots.) I don't raise all this to remind people that Bush won under contested and shifty circumstances (though no one should forget). But think of this: the Dems main man on election reform is a former president who has not always been a party loyalist (look at how he freely criticized President Clinton), and the GOP's point person on election reform is the consigliore of the Bush clan. In Republican circles, one can be both a leading statesman and a high-class partisan hit-man. How nuanced.
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
53. Guess some states better stop using the "JIM CROW" law!
Edited on Tue Sep-20-05 09:05 AM by Tight_rope
For those states who have been enforcing the Jim Crow law, well..I hate to tell you...but your about to be busted. Those days are over and have been over for many years. Of course some of those state were hit pretty hard by Hurricane Corrina (oops I mean Katrina...I'm acting like Pickles now). :P
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
56. Carter and Baker on The News Hour last night. Almost no mention
of paper trail. I found it interesting that no questions were asked on that one. Guess if they discuss why we need a paper trail, they would have to admit that there were real questions regarding the security of touch screen voting.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #56
60. If repugs aren't sincere? - I wouldn't want it mentioned either!
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
67. Its the GOP that wants photo IDs because they know who won't have them
Poor likely Democratic voters
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
68. voting without choice
Freedom to vote for dictatorship as vanilla or chocolate,
yet the people's voice is trapped in a box,
strapped in a two party system, containing all choice
in a false paradox of lies.

And to vote "non" is not an option, but were it, would
how many million voters seek freedom from what
the constitutional republic has become.
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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-05 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
78. Will never happen....system works fine for the oligarchy nt
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