Recruiter Recalls Being Splashed With Blood During Protest

[buzzsaw_23]

Recruiter recalls being splashed with blood during protest
War protesters decline chance to cross-examine first witnesses


By NANCY DOOLING
Gannett News Service

<snip>

  The four protesters, who live in Ithaca, said they'd each had four ounces of blood withdrawn by a nurse. They brought their blood — about two cups total, Clare Grady testified — in four containers to the recruiting office and splashed it on various items in the office. A small amount landed on the recruiter's hand while Burns was splashing his blood on a glass door in the office lobby, Montgomery testified.

Photographs offered by the prosecutor, Assistant U.S. Attorney Miroslav Lovric, showed blood on an American flag and a military banner. A few streams of blood were poured onto the walls and pooled where the wall met the floor. Bloody footprints were also tracked across the lobby's linoleum floors, the photographs showed.

Professional cleaners were hired the next day to clean the mess. The lobby smelled badly before the cleaners arrived, Montgomery said. He said he had himself tested afterward for blood-borne illnesses such as HIV and hepatitis. Though the tests came back negative, he said he was upset by the incident.

The protesters, who call themselves the St. Patrick's Four, said they protested with blood to stop the military from recruiting young men and women for the war. They said their act was not a crime because they acted to prevent a larger crime — America's plan to go to war with Iraq, they testified.

http://www.theithacajournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050921/NEWS01/509210336/1002

[ET Awful]

1. Hey Grady - Unless you had an open suppurating wound on your

hand, a little anti-bacterial soap would've been sufficient.

Blood isn't typically absorbed through the skin.

[Mairead]

2. It's a bit late to say so now, but it would have been better had they

not used real blood. People are crazy about blood-borne sickness these days.

[efhmc]

4. Made quite an impact but I am not for using real blood.

[Mairead]

5. Yah, me too neither. It's distracting at best. (nt)

[rodeodance]

8. not to smart to use real blood (whether is landed on people or nor).

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

50. Then they should think twice about shedding real blood for any reason

[ReadTomPaine]

54. Bingo.

If they don't want to see blood, they shouldn't be in the military. I'm sure the troops in Iraq don't like getting splashed with their friends blood either, but war ain't pretty - either abroad or at home.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

3. Those guys better stay out of Iraq. The blood's running in the

streets quite often there.

[Catchawave]

6. Recipe for fake blood w/minty flavor :)

http://www.shades-of-night.com/painneck/blood.html#mint

I realize it's not as symbolic as real blood, but safer, and tastier too :)

Using real blood's too Charlie Manson for me.

[sattahipdeep]

7. They were just doing their jobs.

Those people in the recruiters have nothing to do with the protest.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4798268#4807182

The protesters, who call themselves the St. Patrick's
Four, said they protested with "blood" to stop the
military from recruiting young men and women for the war.


They said their act was not a "crime" because
they acted to prevent a larger crime America's
plan to go to war with Iraq, they testified.

....
It would be like me running over a cop........then saying the reason I did was I
hate the color blue. This doesn't make running over the cop any better.

[IndianaGreen]

24. Any act that throws a kink in the war machine is a noble act

We are dealing here with murderers and liars that have made a career of oppressing and killing people throughout the world for the glory of Wall Street.

[trogdor]

26. I'd settle for full disclosure.

People are going to join the Army. As long as they do it with both eyes wide open, I have no problem with that. It's their problem, not mine.

You want to make sure people get ALL the truth before signing on the dotted line, fine. Beyond that, we're talking criminal, possibly treasonous behavior, and I'm NOT OK with that.

[BikeWriter]

48. Not if it includes fucking with our troops!

[buzzsaw_23]

49. 'Support Our Troops'

Anything that's totally vacuous and diverts, after all what does it mean to be in favor of .. suppose somebody asks, do you support the people in Iowa, can you say I support them or no I don't support them. It's not even a question it doesn't even mean anything. And that's the point of public relations slogans like support our troops is that they don't mean anything, they mean as much as whether you support the people in Iowa.

more on propaganda here;

http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/199201--.htm

[BikeWriter]

51. Fuck propaganda! I'm talking about our Sons and Daughters here!

Our troops in Korea and VietNam reaped the whirlwind of unpopular wars. We're still suffering for it. More victims are being lain before that altar every day!

[H2O Man]

28. Actually, they do.

The St. Patrick's Four did it not to attack those in the recruiters, but because they are concerned that those people (mostly young adults), are not fully aware of what war is. I mentioned this in greater detail in a post on DU:GD. In the 1970s, many in the military discouraged the use of the word "kill." Rather, they used words like "destroy" which do not have the same impact. The action was intended to wake them up.

It is, of course, nothing like running anyone over. It was a nonviolent protest. Hopefully, we can all distinguish between what they did and running someone over.

[pop goes the weasel]

9. gad. idiots

If you were looking to discredit a movement, finding 4 idiots and giving them blood to go splash on people that represent their target couldn't be beat. If a bunch of wing-nut antichoicers did this to people at a Planned Parenthood clinic, we'd want their balls nailed to the wall. And with good reason. Anyone doing something so stupid and so potentially injurious ought to be put away where they won't cause further thoughtless harm.

[gratuitous]

10. Yeah!

How DARE those people protest the needless spilling of so much blood by . . . spilling blood.

Uh . . . er, hmmmm.

[LisaL]

13. They shouldn't spill their blood on other people during their

protests.

[ithacan]

22. the headline is misleading

it leaves the impression that the protesters splashed their blood directly onto that person. That is not at all the case.

We have to remember that relying on mainstream media reports of things like this are always very misleading, they report in very selective ways that seek to make uncritical readers think that the protesters are crazy. Just remember the reporting on the various anti-war protests. It was always like that...

[defiant1]

11. You said it....

It's nutcases like this that give our cause a black eye.

[slampoet]

12. yeah,

All i can say is read your history, protesters.

Use PIG blood or Stage Blood.

[buzzsaw_23]

14. these people are not nutcases

they are the salt of the earth. These "nut cases" do volunteer work every day in soup kitchens, in homeless shelters, in community projects etc.

They are the cream of the crop.

They have been involved in the anti-war movement their whole lives and have a DEEP understanding of how the military completely controls this country and how the notion of comfortable political solutions is fools gold.

Thay have also been to Iraq bringing medicines and food as well as serving as human shields. They also house indigent, needy people from all over the world all the time.

Oh that the world were made up of more of these type of "nut cases".


From Eugene Debs:
"Do not worry over the charge of treason to your masters, but be concerned about the treason that involves yourselves," he concluded. "Be true to yourself and you cannot be a traitor to any good cause on earth."

These words lead to a 10-year prison sentence and the stripping of his U.S. citizenship. At his sentencing, Debs famously told the judge:

"Your honor, years ago, I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it; while there is a criminal element, I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free."

<...>

The Espionage and Sedition Act is still on the books today.

[Earth_First]

16. Yes, they are.

I will not make attempt to try and discredit their deeds towards humanitarian efforts, however, this is exactly the type of activity that gives the right wing fuel to fire their hatred and rhetoric.

Dyed karo syrup makes a great substitute. We've been there.

[buzzsaw_23]

18. who cares what gives the right wing fuel

for their hatred. It's time to simply do the right thing. Do you know the history of these peoples deeds and acts?

This country just does war. These people have been trying to stop it for years. They walk the walk.

The right wing will find all manner of reason to hate. I do not ever consider an act with the fascists in mind.

The whole trial is a set up.

[ithacan]

21. buzzsaw, people who rely on mainstream media

are not going to see this in any other way.

They are not getting all of the facts or the context.

There is a reason that the first jury voted for their innocence by a large margin.

But as usual, too many people think they know all the facts of a case just by what the MSM portrays and how the MSM spins it.

Sad that that's true even here at DU...

Thanks for highlighting their case. You are right, these are really wonderful individuals who embody all the best of the progressive tradition.

[H2O Man]

30. "...that gives the right wing

fuel to fire their hatred and rhetoric." Think about what you are saying. Are we to quiver in fear that Sean Hannity might BEGIN to sputter hatred tonight? Oh, good heavens!

It's always important to know what you are talking about, before making such statements. First, most people would note that the right wing has been spewing hatred for some time. Watch Fox News tonight, if you doubt this.

Second, the history of the Berrigan brothers and the plowshares movement is very well documented. They have never increased the hatred in the USA, and never caused harm to any anti-war movement.

Please take some time to learn more about this. You may find that even if you don't agree with everything they do, that you respect their courage.

[TheWraith]

47. Don't act like an idiot.

You're making these people out to be some kind of dovish heroes when all they did was a silly stunt that hurt more than it helped.

Ordinary people see this kind of crap, and they view the people who did it as crazy--which is not an entirely unfair assessment--and by association it tarnishes anyone who's against the war, and it gives credence to the right-wingers screaming about how the left hates America. Sean Hannity probably wet himself in excitement when he first heard about this because it puts weight and evidence behind his asinine paranoid ramblings.

It's fine for you to blame every single thing that you don't like on a massive media conspiracy, but it doesn't necessarily line up with reality. The reality is that the media is essentially lazy--if you give them an easy stereotype story like this, they'll run with it. If, however, you show them a coherent, consistent, and realistic message, then you can get far. Cindy Sheehan's vigil in Crawford was a great example of this.

The idea in question is called "playing tight," the principle of working effectively, professionally, and providing your opponents with no opportunities to hit you.

What these people did really amounts to a feel-good stunt. They may have great humanitarian credentials, but it remains a stunt, one rooted in an unreal, idealized view of what a peace protestor is. If you look at history, these sorts of "demonstrations" have never carried weight. What does carry weight is convincing real people that the war is a mistake, and that's not something that's going to happen if they think we're all insane.

[MisterP]

15. of course, blaming every act on agents provocateur is an even better

method

[buzzsaw_23]

20. A bit off topic- For what it's worth

Strategy of tension

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


The Strategy of Tension (Italian; "strategia della tensione") is a way to control and manipulate public opinion using propaganda, disinformation, psychological warfare, agents provocateurs and terror. Coined in Italy during the trials of the 1970s and 1980s terror attacks and murders committed by neofascist terrorists backed by deviated intelligence agencies or NATO's secret stay-behind networks ("Gladio"). Other examples include Operation Condor in South America and events in Algeria during the 1990s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_of_tension


From d.a. levy
"Really"
                     the police try to protect
                     the banks - and everything else
                     is secondary"

[H2O Man]

29. Hopefully

you will reach a point where you can distinguish between a women's health center and the war in Iraq. These four took an action that is keeping with a long line of civil disobedience in America, that included the Berrigan brothers and then the plowshares movement. I would suggest that you have done nothing that could compare to their anti-war activities. Perhaps you should learn more about them, before forming an opinion.

[Centered]

52. excellent point about the anti-choicers

... too bad no one seems to care. /sigh

We NEED a military, I'm not saying it to be labelled a "warmonger" it's just a fact.

To those of you wishing to destroy the "war machine" please consider that the shunt in recruitment doesn't affect this war... but the next. And considerring that I personally believe the next 2 terms will see a Dem in the big chair... what will happen when we NEED our military?

To answer the question What if there was a war and nobody came... the opposing army (who did show up btw) will quickly march on the population centers.

I am opposed to any barring of military recruiters efforts to do their job. Kick them out of schools? Fine... then remove the school from Federal funding. Because even the Military has the right to free speech (they sure as hell earned it.)

Being a Democrat does NOT mean you hate the military... I've said it before and I will say it again. Dems are TOUGH AS NAILS when it comes to defending our nation and it's allies!!!!

Agree with this war or disagree... our troops deserve respect because they are doing what we are not willing to do....enlist!

To those of you DUers who served our country I want to say thank you for your service to me, my family and my country.

I would even say to any Republicans (or Greens or Libs or independants...etc) who served in the Military... thank you as well for your service.

[struggle4progress]

17. The Catholic Worker Movement

The Catholic Worker movement was founded in 1933 during the Great Depression by Dorothy Day at the urging of Peter Maurin. It is best known for houses of hospitality located in run-down sections of many cities, though a number of Catholic Worker centers exist in rural areas. Food, clothing, shelter and welcome is extended by unpaid volunteers to those in need according to the ability of each household. In 1995 there were 134 Catholic Worker communities, all but three in the United States. <snip>

Beyond hospitality, Catholic Worker communities are known for activity in support of labor unions, human rights, cooperatives, and the development of a nonviolent culture. Those active in the Catholic Worker are often pacifists people seeking to live an unarmed, nonviolent life. During periods of military consciption, Catholic Workers have been conscientious objectors to miliary service. Many of those active in the Catholic Worker movement have been jailed for acts of protest against racism, unfair labor practices, social injustice and war. <snip>

http://www.catholicworker.org/historytext.cfm?Number=78

[Jacobin]

19. A page from the Viet Nam protest days

The next step during the Viet Nam years was burning recruiting centers.

It happened then. If the draft comes back, it'll happen again.

[starroute]

35. And when did that ever happen?

Burning draft board files, yes -- but recruiting centers? Tell us where and when.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trogdor]

25. That's over the line.

Most military recruiters are career noncommissioned officers who have been selected (that is, drafted) for recruiting duty by the Department of the Army. The majority do their jobs honestly and to the best of their ability, like they've done throughout their careers, grin and bear it for the three year tour of duty, and get on with their lives. Like any other profession, you have some bad apples who fuck things up for everyone else.

Most Army people will tell you that recruiting duty sucks donkey balls. You lose the advantages of military life, such as the convenience of having a PX and Commissary (military grocery store) nearby, which make getting along on noncom pay possible. Sometimes you get stuck in some ridiculously high cost of living area, such as Washington, D.C., or New York, or southern California. More often than not, your CO is a complete "ends justify the means" asshole who will not accept "well sir, Army Regulation such-and-such says you can't do that" as an excuse.

Your evaluation report, and thus your future as an infantryman, combat engineer, or whatever it was you did before becoming a recruiter depends on whether you fulfill your mission. Fail in that, and your chances of continuing to pursue your career as an infantryman, combat engineer, or whatever it was you did before becoming a recruiter, and making it to 20 years' service so you can retire, send your kids to college, and not eat dog food in your old age, diminishes significantly. Never mind ever getting promoted again. So you do what you have to do to succeed, punch your ticket, and get on with your Army career.

I would STRONGLY suggest walking a couple of miles in your friendly neighborhood Army recruiter's patent leather shoes before calling him a war criminal. Have a nice day.

[Big_Mike]

27. Been there, did that, got the boot...

Tried recruiter duty.

Toughest damn job I ever had, and HATED every minute of it. Was too dumb to flunk out of Recruiter School, where I could have saved myself.

Find some other place to protest, folks.

Why not legislators' offices? They are the ones who vote the money and authorize it. Recruiters are the bottom of the food chain.

I applaud the Recruiter's coolness when splattered with the blood. I tinker with cars for relaxation, and always have open scratches or some such on the lower parts of my hands and arms. Someone throws blood on me, I would object pretty strenously, I believe.

FWIW

[BikeWriter]

41. War criminal? We don't need that shit here!

[tx_dem41]

31. IMO, this is counterproductive to the anti-war cause and is quite...

frankly a vile, disgusting act when considering that real blood was used. This is not an act of civil disobedience.

[buzzsaw_23]

32. The anti-war cause?

There has been no anti-war movement in America to speak of. A few grand but ineffective marches, all of which I have attended, and an incoherent, disorganized attempt at articulating various messages about "to leave or not to leave".

If it weren't for Cindy Sheehan and a few brave souls like the St. Patricks Four there would hardly have been a whisper in the last two years, at least in the public realm.

This is definitely an act of civil disobedience in the land of the very obedient consumer demonstrations. There is no way anything "nice" is going to get this administration to pay attention if any thing will.

The suffragettes got nowhere by being cordial. The Civil Rights activists had to get in the face of the Powers on a continuing basis to get what few crumbs they did.

These people are the salt of the earth. I suggest you learn more about them and the context of this case. In this spirit I refer you to the following as a start.

Here:
Well known in the small town of Ithaca for their anti-war organizing and dedication to social justice issues, the St. Patrick’s Four – all members of the Catholic Worker movement – say they are part of a long history of nonviolent civil resistance to "government injustice," like the many abolitionists, suffragists and civil rights activists who came before them.

"We see ourselves continuing in that tradition," said defendant Peter Demott, "that we’re speaking out against genocide, against war-making, against the slaughter of the innocents, against the destruction and pollution and environmental degradation of the Iraqi landscape and of whole world really."

The use of blood in nonviolent acts of civil disobedience has a long history in the Catholic Worker movement, especially at US military centers and weapons factories. In 1967, Catholic priest Phillip Berrigan poured his own blood on Selective Service records stored in a customs office in Baltimore – an act for which was sentenced to six years in prison. In 1980, Berrigan, along with his brother Daniel, used blood again at a nuclear missile site in Pennsylvania. Demott himself, who has been arrested numerous times for his participation in civil disobedience acts, was charged with "depredation of government property" after pouring blood on the Pentagon to protest the Vietnam War.

Forty-six-year-old defendant Clare Grady said this symbolic tradition cuts through a simple conversation about war, and broadens the discussion to its ramifications. "It goes to a level that connects all humans, which is blood, which is the source of life," explained Grady. "It’s being shed wantonly and that part of the conversation is not present at all in the recruiting center."

<snip>

"To see blood running down their faces spoke volumes to me, which is ‘war is perverse.’ Because these are beautiful people, to look at them as human beings, and what we will see in war…. It was helpful for me to have the image and the visual to remind me about what was imminent," said Grady.

http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2384


Hope to see you in DC

[H2O Man]

33. Sure it is.

You may disagree with the use of blood, or with praying in a recruiter's office. But it is absolutely civil disobedience. It is part of the campaign started during the Vietnam war by the Berrigan brothers, and continued by the plowshares movement. It is widely recognized as one of the most significant parts of the history of civil disobedience in the United States. To say that it is not an act of civil disobedience exposes a lack of knowledge on the subject.

[Ilsa]

34. Using blood, thrown or splashed on items is practically the same as

using urine or feces. It is unacceptable. The health risks are too great. I'd rather see them using red paint or red jello or something else to make their point, but not human body fluids.

[brentspeak]

36. Lock 'em up

The way to protest is not to assault recruiters with real blood.

[TankLV]

37. Oh brother...

[Zodiak]

38. The title of the article says "Splashed"

And the recruiter got hit with a single drop on the back of his hand. Big whoop, love how the author made a mountain out of a molehill.

I agree there are health risks involved, but not for the protesters, who, no dubt, know their HIV and hepatitis status. Is it the best choice to use to avoid charges? No, but it made a statement, and proved to be ostensibly harmless.

Civil disobedience is neither perfectly legal or perfectly strategic. Such is the nature of people taking their representation in their own hands. I'm not going to argue shoulda, woulda, coulda on this one. The statement was made.

As for the recruiters, I understand the job sucks. This is an example of it, and I'm sure it wasn't personal. It comes with the territory when we are engaged in an illegal war.

Lastly, piss on the right-wing. We could descend from heaven with little cupids and fairies under the clarion call of 10,000 angels riding chariots of peace and contentment and the right-wing will STILL say we are traitors, unamerican, unpatriotic, dangerous, and evil. I do not walk in fear of the RW, what they say, or what idiots they dupe into following them.

[buzzsaw_23]

40. Amen

Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism... Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who had the fortune of being born on some particular spot, consider themselves better, nobler, grander, more intelligent than the living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill, and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all others.

-- Emma Goldman

[Doris32r]

39. No good comes from doing something like this.

It's like when people go after women in high heels and fur coats. Go after the biker dude in the leather jacket... then I would take you seriously. You want change... you address the politicians. Who knows what this soldier has seen or been through? No, don't think this is right to do. Hold a protest in the street in front of a politician's office or something. I think that would work better.

[hogwyld]

42. Idiots

To do this to the recruiter is abhorrent. The recruiters, as well as all members of the armed forces are the bottom rung, they follow the orders of the CIVILIAN government. This isn't HIS war. If you have a problem with the war, take it up your legislators. They control the funding. How frickin' asenine! FWIW, I served in the military for 6 years, and shit like this pisses me off.

[buzzsaw_23]

43. They did not splash the recruiter

with blood. If you wish look more deeply into this case for a deeper understanding of what happened.

For a start Here is a bit from what I posted earlier on this thread. For more look into the many posts H2OMAN has also posted. The reportage and the reality are, as usual, two different things.

Here:
Well known in the small town of Ithaca for their anti-war organizing and dedication to social justice issues, the St. Patrick’s Four – all members of the Catholic Worker movement – say they are part of a long history of nonviolent civil resistance to "government injustice," like the many abolitionists, suffragists and civil rights activists who came before them.

"We see ourselves continuing in that tradition," said defendant Peter Demott, "that we’re speaking out against genocide, against war-making, against the slaughter of the innocents, against the destruction and pollution and environmental degradation of the Iraqi landscape and of whole world really."

The use of blood in nonviolent acts of civil disobedience has a long history in the Catholic Worker movement, especially at US military centers and weapons factories. In 1967, Catholic priest Phillip Berrigan poured his own blood on Selective Service records stored in a customs office in Baltimore – an act for which was sentenced to six years in prison. In 1980, Berrigan, along with his brother Daniel, used blood again at a nuclear missile site in Pennsylvania. Demott himself, who has been arrested numerous times for his participation in civil disobedience acts, was charged with "depredation of government property" after pouring blood on the Pentagon to protest the Vietnam War.

Forty-six-year-old defendant Clare Grady said this symbolic tradition cuts through a simple conversation about war, and broadens the discussion to its ramifications. "It goes to a level that connects all humans, which is blood, which is the source of life," explained Grady. "It’s being shed wantonly and that part of the conversation is not present at all in the recruiting center."

http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2384

Everybody wants the easy solution to the sinister war machine. Few will stand up to it.

[hogwyld]

44. I agree with their right to protest

I am willing to defend that right to my last dying breath. However, in the battle to recruit more people to our side, perception can be overpowering. People my perceive this as an attack on the soldier. Something my father had to deal with upon his return from Vietnam. People actually threw urine, feces, and blood at him. I'm tearing up just remembering that.
I'm just saying that there is a better way to file our grievances than throwing real blood about. Personally, I would have used fake blood and gone to either my congessperson, the white house, pentagon.

[buzzsaw_23]

45. I'm just saying

get to know these people and their story as well as their history of non-violence. They would never do what was done to your father. The recruiter in question was barely touched w/blood that was being thrown on the flag for symbolic affect. They used their blood as a symbol of their own sacrifice.

Going to congressperson, pentagon and/or white house is also a good idea. That sounds more like I would consider also as they are at the source.

What was done to your father sounds awful. Deeply sorry about that.My best friend's brother had similar experiences and it was one part of what destroyed him. He committed suicide after suffering alot, mostly from his Nam experiences.

Peace

[BikeWriter]

46. Damned right! I was "welcomed" home with name calling...

and accusations. I hate the war, and it's a rare day I don't shed tears over it, but I will go to war on anyone I see abusing our troops!

[hogwyld]

53. Amen!

I'll in that foxhole right next to you!

[greblc]

55. There are more productive ways to protest....

These people have done more to hurt the anti-war efforts than help. Maliciousness towards our country and our military is just wrong.
Extreme protests cross the line when they harm others or their property.

There are Americans who want to serve. Let Recruiters do their job and find those people.

The alternative is a Draft.

[buzzsaw_23]

56. Property before life is the dictum of the Corporation

If you had been at the trial in binghamton you would have seen first hand the way many folks were impressed with the protesters and I don't mean those who already supported them. The dialogues in and outside the courtroom were impressive. They affected alot of folks. They were very effective.

Everybody in Never Never Land keeps on shopping as the world explodes