Cindy Sheehan arrested at white house

[Stinky The Clown]

Still breaking ...msnbc has the headline at their website, here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

[flamingyouth]

1. Here's a link from our local ABC affiliate:

http://komotv.com/stories/39428.htm

[aion]

61. I wonder if porta-potties were available? n/t

[AllyCat]

69. "who has used her son's death in Iraq to spur..."

USED her son's death? Nice spin ABC. Good job. Why don't you go after Aaron Broussard in NOLA while you're at it.

You jerks.

[merwin]

75. Well, it's true isn't it?

If she had sat outside of Bush's ranch and just said 'stop the war' rather than 'what noble cause did my son die for?', she wouldn't have gotten any coverage.

[AllyCat]

105. She asked a legitimate question.

How many of us have lost someone dear to us and asked "why?". Is that using their death? I don't think so. She wants some answers and frankly so do most of us.

I hardly think that is "using" his death.

[merwin]

226. She's definately doing it in a way desgined to instigate a rebellion.

There's many ways of asking a question, and if she didn't want it to turn into a mass protest, she would have asked people that came down to Crawford to leave.

I'm not saying that she's wrong or anything. I applaud her for what she's doing, however I do think it was characterized correctly.

[Seabiscuit]

238. "designed to instigate a rebellion"???

Sounds like you're trying to equate what she's doing with saying something that's "designed to incite a riot", behavior not covered by free speech.

IOW, you'd like to believe that her speech is somehow illegal???

Pretty friggin' lame crap, if you ask me.

BTW, the phrase "designed to instigate a rebellion" is not featured in any court cases addressing the First Amendment.

[merwin]

306. I didn't say she was doing anything illegal. She's not.

I said that she's doing it in order to gain support for the anti-war movement. Since the majority of congress is pro-war and will never vote to stop it, it is indeed a rebellion.

re·bel·lion (rĭ-bĕl'yən)
n.
An act or a show of defiance toward an authority or established convention

[AuntiBush]

379. So, You would Agree "John Welch" USED his son's Death

And went on to create "America's Most Wanted?"
http://www.amw.com/

Same equation, either way you look at it, "except" for 2 major factors:
1. Ms. Sheehan hasn't made millions doing so, rather lost BIG-TIME
2. She's not "in" w/the major networks

I'm sure there are plenty of other juxtaposing one could do here, but to even suggest, or state she "used her son's death," is despicable!

[merwin]

395. No, he didn't. If he had gone on America's Most Wanted every day and

talked about his son, then it might be a justified characterization.

Since when does making money or being 'in' have anything to do with an attempt to further a cause? Obviously what she believes in is worth far more than money.

[Seabiscuit]

386. What an evasive pile of disingenous crap.

rebellion as used in the context you used it is historically and politically more than the cute definition you offered.

And the way you used it made it sound like an act of sedition.

Sorry, no dessert for you tonight.

[merwin]

396. You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

Just like the word 'hacker' can mean a completely thing to someone who's been in the computer industry for 20 years compared to some teenager (or the MSM) today.

[The Doctor.]

411. Merwin has a very correct and objective view on the line;

"Used her son's death".

At first I was not inclined to agree, but after reading the article and recognizing no directed malice, I would say they were correct in doing so.

It was perhaps unnecessary, but it was perhaps a judgment call by the writer or editor not to appear directly sympathetic to her cause with a statement like, "Whose son was killed in Iraq" thus lending credence to her 'grieving mother' persona and maintaining what could be considered empathy for her and her cause.

Yes, this is a ridiculously fine line, but Merwin is correct.


{oe}typo

[Sterling]

427. lending credence to her 'grieving mother' persona

WTF is that? Last time I checked she still a grieving mother.

[VegasWolf]

247. "Designed to instigate a rebellion?" Well, Good For Fucking Her!!!!

It is about FUCKING time. The WHOLE world is watching!!

[PurpleChez]

286. Advocating that people think for themselves is not advocating rebellion.

That's the mentality of the freepers who think that *'s every word should be regarded as holy writ. We have the right to say NO!

[merwin]

307. You must have a different definition of rebellion than I do.

re·bel·lion (rĭ-bĕl'yən)
n.
1. Open, armed, and organized resistance to a constituted government.
2. An act or a show of defiance toward an authority or established convention.

I'm putting her in the 2nd definition of rebellion.

[VegasWolf]

We KNOW that you are Merwin!!

:toast:

[Kailassa]

397. May we still vote?

By your definition everyone who votes against the government is committing an act of rebellion. Because she has never advocated any sort of violence, only legitimate support of legitimate ideals.

[PurpleChez]

429. And this is bad...WHY?

Are you some sort of Freeper mole or what? Maybe I'm reading too much into your choice of words but it sure as heck sounds like you think independent thought is a bad thing. Was I engaged in rebellion when I voted for Kerry last fall -- or when I logged onto DU five minutes ago? This idea that we as progressives (or should I say "I as a progressive"? -- 'coz you're sounding pretty damn reactionary just now...) that we as progressives must be docile and polite, trying to find common ground with fascists and religious fanatics, should have died in 2000. If you think it's naughty to bad-mouth our phoney president you need to find a different website.

[PurpleChez]

435. I am always perplexed by self-hating liberals

I don't know whether or not the writer falls into that category, but his/her statements reminded me of many others who self-indentify as liberal/progressive but who seem uncomfortable with the idea of agressively advocating -- or even just openly advocating -- for progressive causes. I first began to notice this last summer in the hooplah surrounding Fahrenheit 911. I'm certainly not suggesting that liberals should never criticize Michael Moore (for there are valid criticisms to be made), but I was disgusted by the crowds of supposed liberals who were eager to let their republican overlords know that us lefties hated Moore just as much as they did. I see a lot of the same dynamics surrounding Cindy Sheehan. For four years we've been complaining that no one pays attention to *'s atrocities. Cindy MADE millions of people pay attention and now we're trying to discredit her for becoming a media figure. I'm not trying to liken the two individuals, but could Dr. King have accomplished what he did for civil rights if he had not become a national personality?

[AllyCat]

343. But is she "using her son's death"?

Sure, she is trying to make a point. A point that if made well enough, might prevent other parents and families from losing their loved ones.

Using her grief? Maybe. Directing her anger and frustration in a positive direction. Definitely. Using her son's death? No way.

[The Doctor.]

414. "Using her grief from the death of her son"

That's a very fine distinction, but a syllogism nonetheless.

Indeed, 'using her grief' hasn't nearly the impact, nor the 'appeal' that an editor looks for. "Using her son's death" both impacts the reader and describes her grief indirectly.

"Son's death" conveys her motive far more effectively than "Her grief" does.

Now if they had said, "Whose grief over the loss of her son in Iraq has spurred the anti-war movement..." They would be imparting empathy to the reader.

While I can certainly agree that she deserves our empathy and support, we should take care to understand their position.

If anyone feels so strongly, they should write KOMO News and cordially inquire why they chose that particular phrase, then perhaps suggest some more neutral alternatives.

I can't think of one right now.

[AllyCat]

420. I agree with you Dr. E, but I replied to the wrong post...

...I was trying to figure out why merwin feels "using her son's death" is an accurate description of Ms. Sheehan's "motives".

Yes, your way of putting it is much better than what the AP wrote. Since they were the original propagators of the story, I emailed them yesterday and told them what I thought of the comment and suggested something along the lines of what you said as an alternative.

Thanks for the suggestion and I hope others write them!

[LisaL]

333. I think she would rather have her son alive and well

than sitting outside Bush's ranch.
:eyes:

[DollyM]

356. A father I know . . .

started a center for supporting sexual abuse victims who are children, after his 10 year old daughter was brutally raped and murdered by a convicted sex offender, out on parole. That center now serves several 100 children a year as well as their familes, going to court with them, encouraging them, helping them through their pain so that they can be strong enough to see the perpetrator procecuted. I know, because I worked as a Victims Advocate for the program. Out of this father's grief, came a program that helps hundred's and makes our area a safer place for children. I can't imagine saying that he "used his daughter's death". He used his anger and his grief but "using his daughter's death" makes it sound like he is a cold heartless bastard, which obviously he was not. HE loved his daughter and in his rage and grief, he turned those feelings into a way of doing something positive about getting the scum off the street that harm children in this way. Cindy loved her son and this is her way of making something positive out of the pain and suffering she has endured. She wants to prevent any more parents from going through the pain she has had to endure, by seeing an end to this unjust war.

[Don1]

378. You're right.

The word "use" most often carries a connotation of doing something immoral. It easily can mean devious manipulation, especially when applied to people or tragedies.

Here is an example:
Her ex-boyfriend was using her.

[catcookie]

94. ""who has used her son's death in Iraq to spur...""

that is just discusting.

[ticapnews]

115. Voice your displeasure with the AP at the addresses posted below.

I wish I could say I was surprised by this, but it's becoming common...

[Trevelyan]

350. Where is the address? I tried to send webform on MSNBC and couldn't

though I have before and the Tim Russert webform that I used to blast him for his trying to smear Aaron Broussard also wouldn't work.

I finally found the page to send email to head honcho at MSNBC, did get an email form instead of webform and it did go through.

That was for Russert/Broussard did notice the smear on Cindy at bottom of article and will try to find AP address to protest.

Live links are appreciated. Did manage to send an email to MSNBC on this page:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3303518 /

Kick, Nominated

:thumbsup: :dem: :kick: :banghead: :banghead: :think:

[donheld]

334. Welcome to DU Catcookie

:hi:

[CrispyQ]

150. A more accurate comment would have been

She questions why the current administration 'used her son's life' for a war based on lies.

My bad. Our press is not accurate, but rather 'fair & balanced.' :puke:

[BlueCaliDem]

162. "...the antiwar movement,..."

It's clear the corporate owned, rightwing biased media is still attempting to discredit the validity and sincerity of Cindy Sheehan's quest to support our troops' safe return from an immoral and illegal war concocted with lies.
The WAY it was written clearly tells me, that although loathed to give Cindy Sheehan any publicity, they are (The Washington Post) forced to write about it, perhaps in hopes of angering the bunch of bigoted, blind, bullheaded Bush apologists to counter Sheehan's successful, growing, and most definitely morally sound anti-war protest, or even to defuse the anger among the majority of Americans who are increasingly against Bush's war of profit and convenience (which ain't good for Republicans--and some idiotic Democrats in government--and therefore, not good for corporations and their quest to ensure continuation of the fascist America we now live in).
What they could've written was something like:
"Cindy Sheehan, the California woman whose son's death in Iraq spurred her to carry-on her anti-war protests,..."
The word "used" carries a negative and disrespectful connotation, and I surmise, it was the WaPo's intent to do so.
Yeah. The corporate-owned, rightwing biased media are a bunch of sick jerks.

[Amonester]

211. "rightwing biased media is still attempting to discredit"

They R in their last throes...

(The more they'll attempt to discredit Cindy, the more their chimperor will go down in polls, IMHO.)

Fitz! Where R U?? :smoke:

[BlueCaliDem]

232. Polls-Schmolls--* Really Couldn't Care Less!

He won't be running for reelection, and the Repubs in power will steal one election after another to remain in power with the help of ineffective Dems in Congress who aren't pushing for REAL Election Reform--the kind we have in California--so polls don't matter none!
What matters is getting REAL Election Reform so we can get REAL ELECTED government leaders back.
Otherwise, they'll just "fix" the poll numbers around the fraudulant tallying of our votes like they did the last election, and not unlike how they fixed the facts around the Bush Regime's policy to invade Iraq.
Remember, the corporate ruling class (fascists) are now in complete power and anyone who still believes we can have fair elections under the current situation, is only fooling themself.

[Amonester]

359. I agree with you about everything you wrote.

I was just thinking about maybe - and I have an idea that's what's mostly going on these days - the fact that ** numbers are going nowhere but lower each time a poll is published is really making them (PNAC'ers) hesitate in creating any other mayhem in the ME (Syria or Iran, or both...), and that a majority of public opinion is against them more and more each week. So unless they'd MIHOP, and even then, they're not certain at all that such another treason would not produce a bigger downfall for the GOP (for 2006)...

"Fixing" the vote when exit polls are less than 5% apart ain't too hard for them to "justify" but if exit polls (AND pre-vote polls) would show some big gaps (10% to 20%), commiting such FRAUD$ again would be much too "embarrassing" for them, on both the domestic AND international levels.

I know they are pure ev~o~il bandits, but they don't really WANT to be recognized as such... In the sense that, they WANT to be rude criminals, but being the chickens**ts they've always been, they want to keep their hypocrisy "intact" also.

[BlueCaliDem]

372. "MIHOP"? What does that mean?

Although I'd love to agree with the notion of your post (and yes, perhaps even hope in private it's true), you overestimate the morality and ethical pride of the current Republican (mis)leaders in Congress who are up for election in 2006.

Keeping power in a system they say they detest (government) is too sweet and precious for theirs, and their friends' pockets to bother with being righteous and fair no matter what the American people think and/or say!

Fact of the matter is, if your contention is right (and I'm increasingly afraid, it's not); that the PNACers and Republicans alike are silently wary about *'s falling poll numbers, why in the heck are they still doing his bidding at each and every chance by unifying their votes en masse and in lockstep with the rightwingers with closed-mouth Roberts as our latest example?

And although you could be right about the small percentage points of "difference" in exit polling and the final count of votes in the coming elections, what stops them from utilizing their favorite weapon of discrediting the messenger (in this case, the pollsters) with the all-too helpful assistance of the corporate-owned rightwing biased media, or even dusting off that old excuse they used back in 2004 that some Republicans only say they voted for the other party to avoid trouble at the voting stations (cuz Dems are dangerous, huh?)? Remember that one?

With the Republican controlled Congress showing polling numbers even LOWER than the little chimperor's, can you still believe they give a damn people ain't buying their hypocrisy anymore?

In all good conscience and common sense, I really can't.

[Why Syzygy]

407. hiya

:hi: You've been here almost a year and MIHOP is a mystery?

This place is cool. Let me explain.

MIHOP = Made It Happen On Purpose
LIHOP = Let It Happen On Purpose

Very fine line of distinction there.

These terms are most frequently used in reference to 911.
But, you know, the door is wide open as far as the current criminals in charge are concerned.

I think we should have made a much bigger deal of Iran/Contra.
If so, we might not be facing the current world wide disaster known as George W. Bush.

[BlueCaliDem]

423. Heya! Back at ya!

:hi:

I've been a member for over a year, but I haven't been here on a regular basis (see my low count of postings) and that's why I missed the LIHOP and MIHOP new chat-jargon definitions.

Thanks for helping me out there! :-)

Yeah, I like the Democratic Underground; found solace here when my last surviving young sis's National Guard Unit from Tennessee was called to "serve" in Iraq last October.

People were kind in offering their support, and I'll never forget it.

I think we should have made a much bigger deal of Iran/Contra.
If so, we might not be facing the current world wide disaster known as George W. Bush.

I really don't know that much about the Iran/Contra scandal since I was living in Europe at that time, but I only know that from what I've been able to read about it all, Dems didn't put up much of a "stink" then, and were pretty much as complacent back then as they are today, which, in my book, is encouraging bad behavior and corruption among Repubs even to this day.

Dems need to STOP playing "push-over" to Repubs who had no qualms in running roughshod over everything, and everyone.

How else will Repubs (and I mean here, the less educated that make up the Republicans' base and who vote regularly for these scheisters!) learn anything?

I don't understand why the Democrats have gone from the spirited party they once were, to the Republican lapdogs they try so hard to remain?

Were it not for progressive groups like NOW, ACLU, People for the American Way, Common Cause, Working Assets, etc., our Democratic leaders in Federal Government would've been more than happy to just sit back and do, and say nothing--with clear exceptions among them, of course--like my Senator Barbara Boxer, and just about everyone in the Black Caucus--and let the Republicans go all out without a hitch!

[Why Syzygy]

446. Iran/Contra

You know, trading drugs for ammo and vice versa. Reagan pardoned all of them, just about. One guy, Chuck Colson, went to prison and became a "born again" and now has a prison ministry thing going on.
Oliver North, the paper shredder ala king, ended up on MSM, doing some kind of stupid commentary. Business as usual.

I agree. Great to have you here!

[PurpleChez]

456. Chuck Colson went to prison after Watergate

and did indeed become some sort of minister. I don't remember who did prison time for iran/contra. I'm always amused to see how the Zero-Tolerance Law and Order folks of the Right Wing love and adore would-be felon Ollie North

[question everything]

163. It is from the AP story

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/antiwar_movement

[aresef]

207. I noticed that too.

Liberal media my ass.

[AuntiBush]

380. Agreed AllyCat!

I'm left without words... "USED her son's death."

I'm so sick of the Neo-Con agenda and their bought and paid-for MSN, I am literally ready to shut down cable since I can't bear to watch the lies even for a few seconds anymore. If it were not for some of C-SPAN, I'd turn it off complete.

[merwin]

70. KOMO got that one really quickly

[jobycom]

Love the anti-peace mom who tells protestors not to be lemmings.

""I would like to say to Cindy Sheehan and her supporters don't be a group of unthinking lemmings. It's not pretty," said Mitzy Kenny of Ridgeley, W.Va., whose husband died in Iraq last year. The anti-war demonstrations "can affect the war in a really negative way. It gives the enemy hope.""

First, it has nothing to do with the story, so KOMO opens and closes by revealing their bias. Second, lemmings blindly follow the herd off a cliff. That fits the mother who who cheers on the man who murdered her son for a pack of lies, not those of us trying to stop him.

[Why Syzygy]

117. "Affect the war in a really negative way"?????

Would you call that a fucking oxymoron? Or a double negative?

War/Negative ... hmmm .. lessee .. what's the difference?

F.U.C.K.! We need the brainwash police on duty.

Bring Them Home.

[jobycom]

133. Well, it might ruin people's overall good feelings about war, you know.

Then how will we convince people to wage it?

[Why Syzygy]

197. Well

Just exactly HOW could it get any worse? ya know. More "bloodshed"? How much blood does it take, George? When is enough enough?

Bring Them Home.

[markbark]

130. That was a Disney Rodent Snuff Film

Lemmings DON'T blindly run off a cliff, they were THROWN off.
Much like our brave soldiers who are being thrown off the cliff called Iraq.

--MAB

[jobycom]

152. The legend existed before the Disney film

Many animal legends are completely false, and have to be faked for films. Female animals are as often the sexual aggressor as the males, for instance. I remember reading a guide to raising box turtles which claimed that the males always initiated sex. My female box turtle didn't know this. She would jump the poor male... wait, no sex threads. But that's turned out to be true of many animals.

Anyway, I didn't care that the woman get the facts about lemmings wrong nearly as much as that she was blindly following Bush. Although, there is an irony in her mindlessly following old, debunked animal myths without knowing better, too...

[PassingFair]

332. I KNEW you filthy liberals...

were into sex with box turtles! I KNEW it!
;)

[Why Syzygy]

389. now that's sexy!

A female box turtle "jumping" a male turtle?

Just how is this determined to be de facto?

I thought they laid eggs or something? Then the guy comes along and impregnates them?
I really don't want a lesson on turtle mating.

Let the chicks rule. That's all. Don't ask questions. Just enjoy.

[jobycom]

436. Well...

She would crawl towards him and bump his shell with hers until he complied. She was insatiable, too. She would charge halfway across the room when I had them on the floor, just to bump him into a corner. In fact, when I first brough him him, that was her way of greeting him. They were going at it within ten minutes.

[Why Syzygy]

447. I need to take lessons

:D .. bump into a corner. Okay, got it. :D

[trogdor]

139. Must not have liked her hubby much.

Liked the $250,000 insurance check plenty, though. Got her a new truck and a new double-wide, and now she's working on military hubby #2, I'll bet.

[jobycom]

159. You know nothing about that woman, and that's just cruel

despite being hilarious! I can just picture scanning military personal ads, looking for the one who that says "Shipping out to Iraq, looking for wife."

Dammit, now I'm doing it! Not funny. Not funny! (slaps own hand!)

[trogdor]

171. Turnabout is fair play.

I'll remind you that THIS is what we have to deal with re. Cindy Sheehan, so I reserve the right to throw whatever shit I want at her detractors.

[renabear]

354. Cindy and right wing moms

I am sorry, but that's just wrong. I don't like when the war mongers make fun of Cindy and I don't think it's right to say ugly things about these moms or wives who have lost loved ones for nothing. That woman who made the lemming remark is misguided and obviously bought a pile of hooey, but to sit here and be like the other side and say ugly things about her personally is wrong. My whole family is against this war, including a cousin who joined the Marines after 9/11 thinking he was going to defend his country, not invade someone else's who had nothing to do with it. But what you said is ugly and mean. Let the other side have take the low ground. I know I don't post much, but wanted to say this. Thank you.

[TankLV]

363. Use your sparcity of posts to just scold us, I see.

The poor deluded bitch deserves what comments she gets.

Cindy doesn't.

It's that simple.

[renabear]

374. Still not a good excuse

I wasn't aware that scarcity of posts meant you could not express an opinion contrary to one with more time here. I suppose it is a way to intimidate newbies, but I'm too old to cower. Again, respectfully, I disagree. Neither woman "deserves" to be called bitch and whore, and some of the other sexist awful things I've seen thrown at Cindy. I won't sink to that level. You are, as you know, of course free to do so.

[Kailassa]

400. She doesn't deserve those

apellations, yet you have the audacity to come here and repeat them? Something smells, and it sure aint the roses.

[renabear]

410. No she doesnt deserve them

That was my point.

[renabear]

428. It's not audacity to dislike calling women names like those

Perhaps it is your paranoia. I never called either woman names, I don't like it when women are reduced to sexist stereotypes, I never did. If you choose to willfully misunderstand me, that's your perogative.

[bliss_eternal]

394. Welcome to DU...!

:hi:

[renabear]

412. Thank you kindly

Nice to meet you.

[Gnostic]

392. LOL

Too funny

[Cha]

342. And just who is that "enemy" ..

Mrs Know-it-all from West Virginia?..you've got freakin' koolaid on your chin.

[miss_kitty]

123. Quote from the KOMO story

"I would like to say to Cindy Sheehan and her supporters don't be a group of unthinking lemmings. It's not pretty," said Mitzy Kenny of Ridgeley, W.Va., whose husband died in Iraq last year. The anti-war demonstrations "can affect the war in a really negative way. It gives the enemy hope."

God where did this moran get her Kool-aid?
"...unthinking lemmings..." Really. I guess she doesn't look in the mirror.

"...can affect the war in a really negative way. It gives the enemy hope..." Who knows what began this sentence, since it was paraphrased by the 'News' 'Service' But let's just say it was "The anti-war demonstrations..."

People trying to stop the war don't give the majority of the country and the armed services hope? that no more will have to die in this obscene imperialistic action perpetrated ostensibly on behalf of the American people by a coup d'etat. Mine is not actually an 'unthinking lemming's' point of view, like Mitzy Kenny's is.

[Why Syzygy]

213. She might want to think about

exactly who is the "enemy"?

What's the MISSION, George? What?

The ENEMY? He squats.

[Cha]

346. I'll tell ya what gives the "enemy hope"

you twit..When bush and company can't even save an American City and many of its inhabitants from going under water..that gives a lot of HOPE to the terrorists cause they know what an idiot son bush is and his handlers aren't any better, it turns out.

Cindy Sheehan wants the killing stopped and you, missy, want it to continue cause you're drowning in koolaid and can't come up for air and think for yourself.

[AuntiBush]

381. Yeah, Like "OSAMA BIN-FORGOTTEN!"

You can say that again.

Certainly the terralists have enjoyed plenty of warm "fuzzy" moments 'round the ole' mid-east campfires building-up tons of hope!

Thanks for tons of nothing, GWB!

[Bassic]

143. What a crappy fucking article

:puke:

Standard MSM crap I guess

[skoppa]

405. This whole situation makes me feel so shitty...

...that I almost want to cry. By the way, I can't believe you have to have a special permit to demonstrate. What happened to freedom to assemble peacefully? SHITTY SHITTY SHITTY!!!:cry: :cry: :cry:

[azndndude]

2. They should be arresting BUSH!

[Blaq Dem]

320. And His Momma, Too!!!

For giving birth to such roguish children. Evidently they don't understand the concept of "freedom of speech."

[MaggieSwanson]

3. Well done, Cindy

This is civil disobedience. Cindy stands with Ghandi, with MLK, with all the great dissenters. I'm so proud of her, and so proud to have stood with her yesterday!

[MuseRider]

10. Oh how I wish I was there

to stand or sit with her. I hope she is OK and goes right back out there when they release her. Somehow I think that is exactly her plan.

[AZBlue]

141. Ghandi and MLK were both peaceful and lawful.

[Solon]

205. LOL, they both defied the law to send a message...

plenty of times. Hello, sit-ins, Ghandi sifting salt etc? None of that ring a bell? Brush up on your history before spouting BS, so you don't look like a total idiot.

[info being]

209. ok let's go a little beyond the high school history books

MLK didn't wait for a permit to make things happen.

[Rose Siding]

4. A banner!

She got a banner. :loveya:

[KansDem]

5. So where's the story...?

Is this what MSNBC does? Give a headline but no story? They should say "Breaking Headline" rather than suggest there's a "story."

OK, I'm hooked. I'll wait....:boring:

[Squatch]

6. WTF for?

Was she trying to break in to the WH?
Was she inciting riots?

[genius]

27. She sat down on a sidwalk and didn't move on.

[AllyCat]

72. She broke the law, but interesting they arrested her first. nt

[cyberpj]

121. Yeah. And they asked her 3 times, too! What's wrong with this woman!?!?

:sarcasm:

[NVMojo]

107. they probably used this presidential order that Bush renewed last week

to arrest her ...

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20051800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2005/05-19157.htm

[YOY]

113. as far as I can tell: Loitering

n/t

[SteppingRazor]

7. Again, mass arrestss and civil disobediance were planned for today...

Check it out here:

http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=3087

[MaggieSwanson]

8. MSNBC right now!

[ticapnews]

9. Dallas Morning News

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/092705dnnatsheehan.a7d9b65.html

WASHINGTON - Cindy Sheehan, the California woman who has used her son's death in Iraq to spur the anti-war movement, was arrested Monday while protesting outside the White House.

Sheehan and several dozen other protesters sat down on the sidewalk after marching along the pedestrian walkway on Pennsylvania Avenue. Police warned them three times that they were breaking the law by failing to move along, then began making arrests.

Sheehan was the first taken into custody. She stood up and was led to a police vehicle while protesters chanted, "The whole world is watching."

[Initech]

18. So they're breaking the law by exercising their first amendment rights?

What the hell? This is going too far!

[ticapnews]

28. She should have stayed in a "Free Speech Zone"

:eyes:

Bob Kur (MSNBC) reporting live from the White House...

[Lugnut]

118. I have a newsflash for Bob Kur

This whole country is suppposed to be a Free Speech Zone. :mad:

[ticapnews]

148. That wasn't Bob Kur saying that...

that was me being sarcastic... :) Sorry for any confusion...

Bob Kur was just reporting from the White House, he didn't put any spin on it either way, just said what he saw...

[Initech]

179. Yeah, but we have the "dont ask questions" administration in charge!

Ugh, the Bushistas make me want to :puke: :puke:

[rodeodance]

129. story says they were arrested for demonstrating without a permit.

[doni_georgia]

156. They had permit for protests eom

[Initech]

181. I... I think that's bullshit!

*walks off interview*

Actually, it is bullshit. When did you have to have a permit to protest in Washington DC? Is it a requirement now or are the rethugs using any excuse in the book to have her arrested?

[BlueCaliDem]

182. In Bush's America, there's NO SUCH THING...

...as Freedom of Speech, aka, American's Constitutional 1st Amendment Rights--unless you wanna bash Democrats, Progressives, and their all time fav--Clinton!
Any speech uttered with the goal to improving the lives of ALL Americans no matter their race, creed, gender and financial status/class is a huge "no-no" in Bush's fascist America.

[Initech]

188. Exactly! We have the "dont ask questions" adminstration in charge!

I hate to recycle a post, but it is the truth. God forbid anyone exercise their first amendment rights or anything!

[LynzM]

21. Sitting on a sidewalk is now illegal?

What are they arresting her for, loitering? :wtf:

[TahitiNut]

50. They hate her for her freedoms.

:shrug:

[El Supremo]

11. "The whole world is watching" - Yahoo News link

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050926/ap_on_re_us/war_demonstrations;_ylt=Amk3Sxnjb9CaFP42YIQrhXBI2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

[mwb970]

24. KInd of funny to hear this phrase again.

Especially since I just listened to Chicago's first album last night - they have a whole song synchronized to people shouting "The whole world is watching!"

[tyedyeto]

218. I saw Chicago last night down here in the desert

That was one song I was hoping they would play, but they didn't. Good concert tho.

[rodeodance]

30. move along folks-not much to be seen--Rita still at center of radar.

[tainowarrior]

31. look at this comment!

""I would like to say to Cindy Sheehan and her supporters don't be a group of unthinking lemmings. It's not pretty," said Mitzy Kenny of Ridgeley, W.Va., whose husband died in Iraq last year. The anti-war demonstrations "can affect the war in a really negative way. It gives the enemy hope."

THE IRONY of this comment by a pro-war supporter.

Who is the lemming when all justifications for the war have fallen apart? It gives the enemy hope? they don't need hope. They are assured victory as long as they continue their present course for decades to come, and seeing as Iraq is their country, they ain't going nowhere.

Where do they find these cavemen Americans?

[KyndCulture]

39. I hated that article.. typical AP horseshit...

[AllyCat]

78. Great how they made sure to mention the "counter-protesters"

in an article that was basically unrelated to that part of the story.

[genius]

The pro-war person doesn't speak English.

Clearly not an American.

[fudge stripe cookays]

99. Yeah--

I posted that comment on the other big thread about the march. The concept of irony is completely foreign to this woman.

FSC

[Why Syzygy]

224. They KILLED her husband for gawed's sake!

Did that give them HOPE? This poor pitiful woman. Very sad.

[renabear]

357. Pity the woman

I do pity her. One day she may realize the truth and the needless slaughter that killed her husband and it will be like killing him twice. These women are victims of * too, whether they know it or not and I just think it wrong to trash them personally because they don't know it yet. Thank you.

[TankLV]

364. Her husband WASTED HIS LIFE and was KILLED for a LIE!

Someone should tell her how he was certainly not fighting for anybody's "FREEDOM"!

It was a wasted death.

Just more cannon fodder.

A sacrificial lamb to the slaughter - but definitely not an "innocent".

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

46. They had the freepers have the last word in this story

after inflating the number of pro war demonstrators who were there on Sunday. One of them said that our demos were aiding the enemy-and that's how the story ended. Any way we can contact yahoo and complain?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

119. Someone has to have the last word. You think a non-fweeper believes it?

Do you really think they convinced any non-fweeper that the demonstrations are "aiding the enemy"?

[KansDem]

153. This paragraph confuses me...

"I would like to say to Cindy Sheehan and her supporters don't be a group of unthinking lemmings. It's not pretty," said Mitzy Kenny of Ridgeley, W.Va., whose husband died in Iraq last year. The anti-war demonstrations "can affect the war in a really negative way. It gives the enemy hope."

"Unthinking lemmings?"--sound like any socio-political group we know?

"Gives the enemy hope"--who the hell is the "enemy?"

I'd like Mitz to explain this to me...

[oldcoot]

300. We are all suppose to be cheerleaders

I think that many of the pro-war people view war as a high school supporting event. In high school, students are often told that they must support the team (i.e. cheer the team on) so the team can win. Unfortunately, many people like Mitzy think that the only way to support the troops is to serve as cheerleaders for the war. They do not understand that war is a bit more complicated than a sporting event and the motives of the enemy are a little more complex than those of a sports team.

However, I suspect the arrest of peaceful protesters will do more to hurt the U.S. efforts in Iraq than the mere existence the anti-war protesters. One of the reasons that Bush gave for invading Iraq was bringing freedom and democracy to the Iraqi people. One of the characteristics of a democracy is the right to protest the actions of the government. If we as a nation decide to arrest peaceful protesters than we really do not believe in our rhetoric about democracy and freedom. And if we do not believe in freedom or democracy, then why should the Iraqi people?

[Why Syzygy]

408. I'm pretty sure

they are running for their lives at this point.

They cannot go ANYWHERE in safety. Thank you USofA.

Bush is a psychopath. We know that. He has brought his insanity to bear upon not only our nation, but another as well.

Someone help his soul. It won't be me.

[rodeodance]

47. Average (294 votes) 3.7 stars

[rodeodance]

67. Average (448 votes) 3.4 stars

[Stinky The Clown]

12. Reporting on the air, but still no website story other than the headline

She and others were arrested after being told three time 'move along'.

[rainy]

13. Now they will pay attention.

We should start a vigil outside of the courthouse until she is released.

[Pirate Smile]

14. Police asked them to move along, they didn't, Cindy was the first arrested

reported on MSNBC.

[Stinky The Clown]

15. From another source .... with a short story

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/092705dnnatsheehan.a7d9b65.html

Sheehan arrested during anti-war protest

12:51 PM CDT on Monday, September 26, 2005

Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Cindy Sheehan, the California woman who has used her son's death in Iraq to spur the anti-war movement, was arrested Monday while protesting outside the White House.

Sheehan and several dozen other protesters sat down on the sidewalk after marching along the pedestrian walkway on Pennsylvania Avenue. Police warned them three times that they were breaking the law by failing to move along, then began making arrests.

Sheehan was the first taken into custody. She stood up and was led to a police vehicle while protesters chanted, "The whole world is watching."

[ticapnews]

22. I hate the way the AP words that...

She hasn't "used her son's death" for anything. :mad: :nuke: :mad:

[ElectroPrincess]

38. Oh Yes-Um!

The blond bimbo on CNN's Headline News emphasized, She was warned *THREE TIMES* before the police arrested her! Warned about WHAT? Oh, yes can't be on the sidewalk by our "Dear Leader's House"? That's a good little media whore - spout the corporate approved blather. :puke:

[MADem]

87. Warned to stay away from the House WE PAY FOR WITH OUR TAXES

What a load of shit. Bush could have defused this had he met with her. He said "BRING IT ON" and never anticipated that a tiny mother would be the one what brought it.

Reap it, chimpy, reap what you have sown!

[Roland99]

52. WRITE the AP! We shouldn't stand for subjective crap like that in news!!

[ticapnews]

65. AP Media addresses

[e-mail] [e-mail] [e-mail] [e-mail] [e-mail] [e-mail] [e-mail] [e-mail] [e-mail] [e-mail] [e-mail] [e-mail]

Copy and paste into an email. Couldn't be easier....

[AllyCat]

89. Done nt

[Roland99]

144. Works better with semicolons:

[e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]


:)

[acmavm]

344. Thanks!

.

[Trevelyan]

351. Thank you for the links. My letter:

Object to AP's BLATANT BUSH PROPAGANDA - Cindy is not "using" her son's death~~~~Why don't you print information on the Downing Street Minutes and Memos showing bush "fixed" the evidence and lied to Congress and the American people to get them to go to the War on Iraq to steal their oil and that Blair and Bush started bombing Iraq 6 MONTHS BEFORE THEY WENT TO THE UN AND TO CONGRESS AND PARLIAMENT.

THIS IS TREASON. Why aren't you reporting THAT!! It resulted in 7,000 to 9,000 US soldiers' deaths and 20,000 maimed for life not to mention hundreds of thousands of Iraqis including women and children murdered by bombs, napalm and house to house executions and turning our young people into the worst kind of Nazi criminals in the torture, torture and more torture scandals.

Cheney started negotiating for the building of a 100 torture chambers like Gitmo with Halliburton Burn and Loot in 2000, a year before bushco engineered the atrocities of 911. The US military is even using Navy ships to torture innocent people.

WHY DON'T YOU REPORT ON THAT???

"I find it incredible that the media assidiously scrutinizes the words of a grief-stricken mother and not the words of a lying pResident."

The Bush Regime is causing the deaths and maiming of hundreds of thousands of human beings. Cindy's question is more than Patriotic, what about your cover-up of Treason against the people of the United States of America? http://www.AfterDowningStreet.org

[Roland99]

161. This is what I just sent to the Associated Press ->>>>

To whom it may concern,

I am writing to express my dismay at the subjective rhetoric placed into an article from your news service. The Dallas Morning News is running this article:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/092705dnnatsheehan.a7d9b65.html

which contains the passage:

Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Cindy Sheehan, the California woman who has used her son's death in Iraq to spur the anti-war movement, was arrested Monday while protesting outside the White House.


Is it the place of the Associated Press to inject reasons why Cindy Sheehan is engaging in her anti-war protests? It would seem to me that that would be the purview of the TV and print pundits, not a news source.

Please remedy this situation by editing out the subjective and pointed rhetoric "the California woman who has used her son's death in Iraq to spur the anti-war movement"

Thank you.

[abelenkpe]

250. no worries

While I agree it is a good idea to write asking for a rewording of the sentence saying Sheehan used her son's death, it may be wrong to suppose that author of the article was trying to say anything derogatory. It could have just been lousy, uninspired writing. Dontcha think? I think letters that aren't accusatory but asking for rewording might be well received.

[Roland99]

258. It's had the desired effect. The subjective rhetoric is gone now.

I never said anything in the email about it being derogatory. I called it what it is: subjective and pointed rhetoric.

[Kailassa]

406. LOL

People who use words for a living on public media have no right to not know the implications of what they write.

[PegDAC]

415. This is just like in Crawford,

The AP wrote that the pro-war camp was "Patriotic", as if to imply that Camp Casey wasn't.

x( :mad:

[WinkyDink]

187. It's the way of the Fascist police everywhere

Outside the TODAY Show, e.g., police force pedestrians outside the gated area of the plaza to keep walking. Absolutely NO stopping for a "look-see" at Al Roker and company, if you haven't secured a place on the correct side of the barrier. I realize this example is a superficial one; all the more reason for police NOT to be heavy-handed. Anti-Bush, anti-War demonstrators, by comparison, don't stand a chance.

Forget "freedom of assembly", people. That went buh-bye with the first "loitering" law, whenever that was.

[grateful581]

276. Associated Press Reporter

"California woman who has used her son's death in Iraq to spur the anti-war movement"

was written by
JENNIFER C. KERR
Associated Press Writer

I did not see the reporters name anywhere on the posts.

Go CINDY !

[speedoo]

16. MSNBC just showed some video...

Cindy was clewarly visible, appeared to be handcuffed, surrounded by cops, etc.

No signs of any struggle or any others being arrested.

[rodeodance]

34. so, they only wanted the 'ringleader" ?--even if others were not 'moving

along" !! um...

[JuniperLea]

17. After having a son murdered in a terrorist act by BushCo

Going to jail ain't nuttin.

Go Cindy!

Ok, so where are the vigils going to be held? We need a shit-load of silent vigils every night until she is released.

[hardrainfallin]

40. the Magistrate is right. This was one of the stupidest fucking

things BushCo could do.

And I'm sure Cindy will be fine. Better than a ditch in TX. She's moving up in the world.

THANK YOU CINDY!

We wish you well and we got your back!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

155. Where did he say that? Not in this thread, he didn't post here. (nt)

[hardrainfallin]

169. sorry, it was on re-direct, and no he didn't put it

in those words. Have since lost track of the thread. Sorry.

The point remains, imo: it has to come down to this, unfortunately; and I believe Cindy is doing us a great service by making YET ANOTHER sacrifice.

[MADem]

95. Maybe she can get the truth of out Judy Miller!!!!

Brave gal, that Cindy!!!!

[hobbit709]

19. He just doesn't get it

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, AND TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES.

[catmandu57]

20. We have to keep the heat on

Push, push, push we've gone past the point of ignore, so let's push a littke harder to show America what these fuckers are scared of. Arrest today at the Pentagon, arrest Cindy, hell, they'll have to arrest many more people in the coming days.
It's things like this that lead to regime collapse, watch them swing a sledgehammer in hopes of stopping whats already out of the bottle.

[Mr_Spock]

23. Go Cindy GO!!!

I'm with her - I wonder if they will arrest a hundred thousand people.

[emrenz]

217. That would be PERFECT!

Trying to arrest and detain 100,000 people would get this the media coverage it deserves!

[Mr_Spock]

353. Wouldn't that be beautiful?

I really think a message like that is long overdue.

We are too well behaved - we are ignoring our duty as citizens.

[Career Prole]

25. When the Cindy Sheehan Defense Fund starts collecting, I'm in!

And with the change left over, we can start our own space program. ;)
(Thanks, Lewis Black!)

[suffragette]

26. Give that woman a Jailed for Freedom pin

http://www.smithsonianlegacies.si.edu/objectdescription.cfm?ID=233

"Jailed for Freedom" pin, 1917

Between 1917 and 1919 suffragists, demanding votes for women, picketed the White House, and many were arrested and jailed. The women later wore pins representing a prison cell door to commemorate their imprisonment and call attention to the injustice of being "jailed for freedom." The National Museum of American History has collected several of these pins. The first was donated in 1963 by Lucille Agniel Calmes, a government secretary who served a five-day term in the District of Columbia workhouse for picketing in 1919. This pin belonged to Alice Paul of the National Woman's Party, who led the first picket in 1917; it was acquired in 1987 from the Alice Paul Centennial Foundation.

Visit the website to see the pin.

[bigbrother05]

29. give details, please

All I have is Fox, so could someone please post details, as they come in. Thanks

[QuettaKid]

43. uhm, I am not a lawyer

but I sometimes play one on the internets. The move along thing probably relates to the fact that it is illegal to sit in front of the WH...loitering, etc? what say all of you....

[FVZA_Colonel]

32. All she did was sit down, and she was arrested?

That just does not make logical sense.

Also, "I would like to say to Cindy Sheehan and her supporters don't be a group of unthinking lemmings. It's not pretty," said Mitzy Kenny of Ridgeley, W.Va., whose husband died in Iraq last year. The anti-war demonstrations "can affect the war in a really negative way. It gives the enemy hope."

I am deeply sorry for your loss mam, but Cindy Sheehan and her supporters are not lemmings. They are acting as their conscience tells them to.

[rodeodance]

134. see this.

.Others who were arrested also cooperated with police. Sgt. Scott Fear, spokesman for the U.S. Park Police, said they would be charged with demonstrating without a permit, which is a misdemeanor.

[FVZA_Colonel]

149. If they were there with out a permit, that would be a problem. eom.

[WinkyDink]

208. demonstrations don't need permits

As IF MLK ever had a PERMIT!!!!

Such laws are unconstitutional. Moreover, they allow the police to arrest people for MOTIVE. what if they claimed just to be TIRED, a la Rosa Parks??

FASCISTS, all of them.

[athenap]

377. Wouldn't want to make *the war* feel bad now...

"I would like to say to Cindy Sheehan and her supporters don't be a group of unthinking lemmings. It's not pretty," said Mitzy Kenny of Ridgeley, W.Va., whose husband died in Iraq last year. The anti-war demonstrations "can affect the war in a really negative way. It gives the enemy hope."

Yes, because the war needs to feel good, and loved, doesn't it? And because people wanting to stop the lies, and exercising their first-amendment-given rights to express themselves is gonna do a lot more damage than, say, watching your buddies die on the battlefield, or getting your arm blown off.

[Labdad95]

33. GREAT NEWS!

Now, everyone will take notice. Even bad publicity can be good publicity.

[MADem]

101. Nothing bad about this publicity at all, this was planned

Today is CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE DAY...but hey, they don't read the paper in the WH, so how would they know???

[BR_Parkway]

185. hmm, making the MSM pay more attention to the DC rally -

very astute move.

[BlueCaliDem]

189. Only bad publicity for Bush...

...NOT for the American people and our Constitution, I say!
Not even the wingnuts believe Sheehan is guilty of any wrongdoing by exercising her 1st Amendment rights in the face of an elected government head.
I mean...this country isn't a dictatorship...right?

[derby378]

35. Link to KWTX report out of Waco/Temple/Kileen

http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/1752361.html

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

36. I hope this isn't the "democracy" we're allegedly spreading...

[Shine]

37. Keep on raisin' the ante, girl!! More power to her....

This arrest will only work in her favor and bring even more attention. Duh!

They're so stupid, it's shocking sometimes.

~Shine

[KyndCulture]

41. Played right into her hands, didn't they?

This is BEAUTIFUL!


Cindy and the others were also Praying btw.... this is even better.

[mcscajun]

71. Yup! Anyone who thinks these folks didn't want to be arrested this

afternoon, raise your hands.

Nothing gets more publicity than some arrests in front of the White House.

This will be all over the evening news! :woohoo: Oh yeah, Chimpy will score a lot of points with veterans by arresting a Gold Star Mother. Uh-Huh. :sarcasm:

[fooj]

122. Oops!

O8)

[cyberpj]

125. getting arrested was just about the only way to get some news coverage. nt

I think that's what she's learning.

[Why Syzygy]

308. The slammer is no fun place to be

But her message Saturday was upbeat, full of hope and gratitude.
She has a good attitude going in. That will help her stay the course. Did I just say that?

[rodeodance]

42. kick

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElectroPrincess]

51. "Now I am not here to start a name calling fight with fellow posters"

You could have fooled me?

[crispini]

53. Hey, tokenConservative.

:hi: Um, welcome, but you might want to consult the DU Rules:

If you think overall that George W. Bush is doing a swell job, or if you wish to see Republicans win, or if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals, please do not register to post, as you will likely be banned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

A lot of people on here do enjoy a good discussion, but this isn't the place for conservative-liberal debate. And voicing opinions like that here is very likely to get you into a full-on flamewar.

[ElectroPrincess]

59. You have finesse crispini ... very well put :-) n/t

[Chicken George]

104. Better Yet

Go straight to the nearest recruiter and Enlist...go fight the "good fight" elsewhere...

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mcscajun]

55. This should be good...

:popcorn:

[Maeve]

63. Nah, short show

[mcscajun]

That's okay...I usually don't have a front-row seat...

...I usually find out after the curtain rings down.

:spray:

[Maeve]

108. This one was more like "Bambi meets Godzilla" for length

:nuke: :applause:

Yeah, it IS fun to watch!

[mcscajun]

124. You remember "Bambi Meets Godzilla" too!?!?

Wow. So few seem to know it.

:)

[Maeve]

146. Well...I can think of one reason many wouldn't remember it

Many weren't in "memory retension" states when viewing it...

:smoke: :hippie:

[mcscajun]

174. Ha!

:rofl:

So very true.

[ms liberty]

128. Just like me, right now, as usual...

Wondering what I missed!

[iconoclastic cat]

142. Why are the tombstones gender-specific? n/t

[mcscajun]

177. 'Cause tombstone engravers charge by the letter?

:hide:

[iconoclastic cat]

199. *ba-doom-cha!*

[ticapnews]

56. 37% is a vast majority? (eom)

[Bridget Burke]

57. As long as the War in Iraq continues, Cindy's "agenda" won't go away....

Where's your proof that most of the USA is tired of her?

Goodbye!

[NVMojo]

120. the freepers in my buttscrew elbow of a rural town out west think Cindy

is nutts, they faithfully follow the Ann Coulter/O'Reilly brain tank and do not think for themselves.

[dionysus]

60. um, "VERY vocal minority, nowhere near a majority"

read the newspaper please, 60% (= vast majority) do not support this illegal bullshit excuse of a war. Enjoy your short stay.

edit for typos

[speedoo]

66. Are you or any of your family able to enlist?

If so, why haven't you yet?

Get your ass over to Iraq now and put your life on the line, asshole.

[domlaw]

68. 15 Mins

If I had a dollar for every time I've heard that tired old phrase, I'd be a rich man. Do you really believe that she would rather have her son or your so called 15 minutes?

I'm selfish when it comes to my son, I want him to have a happy, productive life and NOT to die for someones lies.

You are tired of the rhetoric? I bet you cringe every time you hear there were no WMD's, that Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11, that the war is illegal.

Rant Off

[The_Casual_Observer]

73. now, back under the rock please.

[Shadder]

74. I wonder

If this were 1776 would you say the same things about John Adams? Or Thomas Jefferson? Or Ben Franklin?

[rainy]

77. Cindy is the face of the anti-war movement.

She has earned the right to dissent. She speaks for many. Did you see the anti-war march on sat? She is not alone. Further, this whole war machine thing cannot be sustained. We cannot continue to arm the world (US biggest export and Bush family source of wealth) and kill people so that huge oil conglomerates and arms makers can profit. Our rate of growth is unsustainable. There is a better world possible and we the people need to bring it forward. No more wars. War is a racket.

Pollution is killing us and we need to find a kinder more intelligent way of living and sharing the remaining natural resources instead of killing to control other countries resources.

[Voltaire]

79. Just leave now

For my sanity and yours, just go. The only people in this country who can be tagged as self-serving are conservatives and Republicans, such as yourself. Your conservative opinions are like conservative assholes...everybody IS one.

[Call me Deacon Blues]

81. I honestly hope you'll stay a while

and I hope you don't get banned. Sit back and listen -- maybe you'll learn something.

[Call me Deacon Blues]

85. Yikes! That was quick

So much for proselytizing...

[mcscajun]

90. That's why you need to keep your popcorn handy...

...there's hardly ever a main feature...just a short cartoon.

:rofl:

[mcscajun]

84. Show's over.

:)

[ticapnews]

98. Line up! Sign up! Today!

http://ticapnews.freeservers.com/signup.html

I know how much you support President Bush and the war effort in Iraq, but
have noticed you haven't signed up to fight yet. It might be because you are
too busy, or maybe you just didn't know how easy it is to join! I know you
probably feel guilty about sending other young men and women off to die in
your place, so I am sure you'll take this opportunity to do the right thing:
Sign up for a tour or two in Iraq today!

And I’d gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land God bless the U.S.A.

Below are the links you can use to sign up to join any branch of the armed forces.

Air Force!
http://www.airforce.com/contact/locator_fr.htm
Navy!
http://www.navy.com/
Marines
http://www.marines.com/request/contact_recruiter_request.asp
Army!
http://www.goarmy.com/contact/find_a_recruiter.jsp
Coast Guard!
http://www.gocoastguard.com/offices/recindex.htm
Enlistment Form
http://www.dior.whs.mil/forms/DD0004.pdf

Line up!
Sign up!
Today!

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[AllyCat]

102. Dangit! I always miss the Freeper posts before they are deleted! nt

Nice smackdown as always y'all...in a nutshell, what did the neo-con say?

[mcscajun]

131. Oh, nothing terribly original or enlightening...

...just the usual "I don't want to start a flamewar, BUT..."

and then he went on to bash Cindy.

Nothing left of him but a smear on the PC monitor now...

[Roland99]

138. Said something along the lines of:

Cindy was a self-serving woman whose 15 min. of fame were up.


Typical troll.

[LSK]

109. the hurricanes have not stopped soldiers from dying

This war is illegal. Go read the IWR for yourself.

[ticapnews]

45. She asked for a meeting with *

Bob Kur reporting from the White House. He was there when she talked to the officers at the gate.

When Cindy asked for a meeting with the president, the officers said they had to check with the White House office of Legal Affairs... Legal Affairs sets the president's schedule and decides if he can take a meeting?

:wtf:

[Judi Lynn]

48. Cindy Sheehan arrested during protest in front of White House

Cindy Sheehan arrested during protest in front of White House

The Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Police arrested Cindy Sheehan during an anti-war protest in front of the White House.

Sheehan and several dozen other protesters sat down on the sidewalk after marching along the pedestrian walkway on Pennsylvania Avenue. Police warned them three times that they were breaking the law by failing to move along, then began making arrests.

Sheehan was the first taken into custody. She stood up and was led to a police vehicle while protesters chanted, "The whole world is watching."

Sheehan is an anti-Iraq War activist who attracted international attention in August for her extended demonstration outside President George W. Bush's Texas ranch. Her public activism began as a reaction to the death of her son, US Army Specialist Casey Sheehan, in Iraq, according to the community encyclopedia Web site Wikipedia.
(snip/...)

http://159.54.227.3/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050926/NEWS/50926014

[Liberaler]

49. Not surprising really...

If you have read FOURTEEN CHARACTERISTICS OF FASCISM, you will see why it is not unexpected.

Here are a few relevant ones:

2.. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights – Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to ‘look the other way’ of even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

7.. Obsession with National Security – Fear is used as a motivation tool by the government over the masses.

12.. Obsession with Crime and Punishment – Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses, and even forego civil liberties, in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

When you can't even protest peacefully outisde the center of power but end up arrested, it's wrong on so many points that it is just disgusting.

[cindyw]

58. We should demand the firing of the officer for denial of const. rights.

Now I know, he was doing his job. But guess what...he wasn't. There can be no authority for the police to demand that she "move on". Its in the constitution. Now since there is no doubt that the man was ordered to arrest her, the only thing that will spotlight the chain of command, will be to attack the officer. He will either defend himself by outing who ordered him or his fellow officers will come to his defense and put a rift between the no doubt political orders and the police. Win/Win

[Trevelyan]

360. ACLU is focusing on First Amendment Rights on their homepage

They have a 2 page downloadable pdf flyer. They do say that many police officers think protesters have to keep moving but that is not in the law. But blocking people's access to stores etc. is. Many homeless have been arrested or ticketed for lying down on sidewalks when there is no grass or benches available and one said to media, how heartless can the police (those behind them who have even shut down homeless shelters, women escaping with children from abusive spouses now have to have all kinds of paperwork even to get into shelters according to Spanish Law Center which was later closed for lack of funding) be, if someone had a better place to sleep than the sidewalks, why wouldn't they be there. Shelters throw people out at 7am and don't let them back in the shelters until 6 or 7 pm and libraries throw the homeless out due to their "smell" no matter what the weather or how sick the homeless are and some have advanced AIDS and other diseases.

I am proud of Cindy for being willing to be arrested to gain publicity for the 600,000 US citizens who showed up for this antiwar demonstration despite the "repairs" being done on Amtrak, Metro Rail subway and Metro buses, conveniently timed with this ANSWER initiated and 6 months of planning to keep people save.

Thank you to http://www.Answer.com Go to their site and participate in demonstration by using their form to write to your Congresspersons, Cheney and * with one form supporting the bringing home of our troops NOW!! Please sign up for their updates too, ANSWER did a good job for all of us - 6 months planning and the work they did should be acknowledged.

[seafan]

62. Now in WP:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/26/AR2005092600143.html

[rodeodance]

96. Sheehan Arrested During Anti-War Protest (WP has the AP story)

[rodeodance]

106. Average (581 votes) 3.4 stars

[awoke_in_2003]

157. Holy hell...

they admitted over 100,000 anti-war demonstrator and only 500 war supporters. This story will get yanked soon.

[thereismore]

64. she was told "move along" and she did not. The whole nation was told

"move along, nothing to see here" for years, and it did. Until now.

[rodeodance]

83. yahoo story Average (492 votes)

Average (492 votes)

[jmatthan]

76. Why are the people today with balls - WOMEN?

Cindy Sheehan is the second historic arrest today.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/4280040.stm

[rainy]

93. Because it takes ovaries not balls and I have a nice set of steal

ones.

[jmatthan]

80. What is each of you going to do about this?

Something?

Nothing?

Just chat on DU about it?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

151. No

I just called my Congressman asking him to support HJ 55, a resolution to create a timetable for withdrawal of troops. I encourage everyone to call their reps right now.

[Trevelyan]

361. I like what Pelosi is doing - getting tough.

I like what Pelosi is doing - getting tough. Whack these bastards with every legal, ethical, procedural manuever you can. Do not waste your time being polite and when charges are filed - by all means, ake sure every effin' applicable one is piled on.

The republicans respect nothing but like cockroaches they are not invulnerable. Make them squirk, make them scatter, make it public, and make it loud at every opportunity.

If the House has to boycott every committee meeting, do so. Get in their faces on CSPAN and cable. Whining and covering one's ass is not a winning strategy. There is nothing wrong with Democrats forming independent committees like many exiled foreign leaders do. The Democrats need a shadow government body that discusses these affairs publicly. Let Current TV sponsor such round table discussions.

Think and act for the future. Ignore the bastards
~~~~~~

Appalled to read that you voted to give Bush a blank check, but very pleased you're doing what you're doing now. We simply need more millions of Americans doing more millions of things (talking to friends and neighbors. writing their representatives, joining the protest in Washington, D.C. on September 24th, - http://www.ANSWER.com to join even staying at home - writing letters to the editor, etc.). This is the only way we can restore integrity to our government

http://www.AgitProps.org Please distribute leaflets whether you can come or not by leaving them in your grocery cart when finished shopping or on benches in shopping malls, restrooms, get out the word!!

http://unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=2872#24natl~leaflets

http://www.democracycellproject.net/

[lakeguy]

82. you know, for how smart this group is "supposed" to be for

"winning" the election and blah, blah, blah, this is about the least intelligent thing they could have done. who would have know that she was sitting on the sidewalk on Monday? no one, because the msm wouldn't report it. but, now that she's been arrested, the flood gates will open. it's like we are living in China for christ's sake. f'in fascist retards!

[rodeodance]

86. Average (492 votes) 3.4 stars

[The_Casual_Observer]

88. This isn't going to make any points for jr.

jr can't smear Cindy. Cindy seems to be smarter than all the kings horses and all the kings men.

[rodeodance]

91. Is jr. back at the WH?

[The_Casual_Observer]

362. He sure was.

[cassiepriam]

92. Profiles in Courage. We see living history. nt

[savemefromdumbya]

97. "Cindy the brave" will be in the history books in years to come

This brave woman like Rosa Parks and Ida who stood up for their rights will not give up. The more they arrest her, the more interest by the public and the media! Bush can't win on this one!!

[fooj]

100. We've got your back, Cindy!

TAKE A MINUTE TO LOOK AT THIS...

http://www.meetwithcindy.org/gsfp/GS05-107.mov

Peace

[leftchick]

103. Photo from Yahoo

Anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan is arrested by United States Park police outside the White House on Monday, Sept. 26, 2005 in Washington. Sheehan's 24-year-old son, Casey, was killed in an ambush in Sadr City, Iraq, last year. She attracted worldwide attention last month with her 26-day vigil outside President Bush's Texas ranch. (AP Photo/Evan Vucci)






http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/wl/102602iraqprotests/im:/050926/480/whre10109261610

[dhinojosa]

110. Hmm, she looks like she is having fun....

?

[rodeodance]

111. as far as I can tell Cindy was the only one arrested at this place?

[iconoclastic cat]

135. Is it just me, or is she *smiling* in that first photo? n/t

[ticapnews]

136. She's smiling, and other people are laughing and applauding...

Lots of people taking pictures too.

The whole world is watching.

[loudsue]

302. Looks like that policeman has his hand up her skirt...

:rofl: Funny picture! :applause:

[Megahurtz]

347. PppfftttHahahahaha!!!!

:spray:

[DemInDistress]

388. Is it me or does that cop

have his hand up Cindy's crotch? Look at all those happy faces in the crowd,guy on the right in a black shirt seems delighted.Its sad arrest
ing a mom who only wants an honest answer from our prez.it must be those damn downing street memo's {too hot to handle in public}.I support her from NYC.She has many fans here and we support her...

[Binka]

222. OMG LeftChick 15 days without a word from Ben

I can not imagine what it must be like to hear "Your son is dead."

But I will tell you what if I get those words Cindy will not be the only one arrested.

[redwitch]

304. I hope you hear from him really soon.

The waiting must be terrible for you and I am so sorry you have to go through this. Big hug from Redwitch to Binka! I will keep you and Ben in my prayers ( hope that is not offensive to you), if it is I'll send good vibes instead! :-)

[Binka]

310. Of Course No Offense

Love shared is love welcomed. Thank you.

[leftchick]

330. Binka

:hug:

He WILL call. Or Email.... :)

[Trevelyan]

371. Bless you and your son Binka, I will keep both of you in my thoughts

We have to stop this illegal war now. My heart goes out to all the families who have loved ones in Iraq and Iran.

:grouphug: :hug: :grouphug: :hug:

[Singular73]

112. Awesome

Excellent Publicity.

[Stinky The Clown]

114. MSNBC has the story up now - same AP story as is shown elsewhere

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9493139/

No new news from MSNBC

[rodeodance]

116. anyone know if Bush is back at the WH?

[rodeodance]

127. I see now --that others were arrested also.

.....Others who were arrested also cooperated with police. Sgt. Scott Fear, spokesman for the U.S. Park Police, said they would be charged with demonstrating without a permit, which is a misdemeanor.

[UpInArms]

145. here's a pic up at Yahoo!

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050926/480/dcev10109261800;_ylt=AsPLLrSYlf7usVAWprkEyIhH2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3bGk2OHYzBHNlYwN0bXA-

Anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan is arrested by United States Park police outside the White House on Monday, Sept. 26, 2005 in Washington. Sheehan's 24-year-old son, Casey, was killed in an ambush in Sadr City, Iraq, last year. She attracted worldwide attention last month with her 26-day vigil outside President Bush's Texas ranch. (AP Photo/Evan Vucci)

[hobbit709]

198. I don't recall anything in the Constitution

about needing a permit to exercise your 1st amendment rights.

[Why Syzygy]

318. She doesn't have to go to Jail!

Sheehan, 48, was the first taken into custody. She smiled as she was carried to the curb, then stood up and walked to a police vehicle while protesters chanted, "The whole world is watching."

About 50 people were arrested in the first hour, with dozens of others waiting to be taken away. All cooperated with police.

...
Park Police Sgt. L.J. McNally said Sheehan and the others would be taken to a processing center where they would be fingerprinted and photographed, then given a ticket and released. The process would take several hours, he said.

...
The demonstration is part of a broader anti-war effort on Capitol Hill organized by United for Peace and Justice, an umbrella group. Representatives from anti-war groups were meeting Monday with members of Congress to urge them to work to end the war and bring home the troops.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Bush is "very much aware" of the protesters and "recognizes that there are differences of opinion" on Iraq.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1160779

"Very much aware". Um. No, don't think so.
http://www.unitedforpeace.org

[American Infidel]

126. How many other mothers like her are out there?

I wonder how many other mothers are out there that feel the same way as she does? How many more people have to die before we pull out of Iraq and let them determine their own fate? And how many more mothers are going to be left childless as a result of this foolhardy adventure into the Middle East?

Peace

[bluedog]

132. wait a minute.thought our soldiers were fighting

for our freedoms.....one of our freedomsis the right to protest.....right......

[AZBlue]

137. This hurts the anti-war movement - Cindy should know better

MSNBC.com has updated the story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9493139/

According to it: "Sheehan and several dozen other protesters sat down on the sidewalk after marching along the pedestrian walkway on Pennsylvania Avenue. Police warned them three times that they were breaking the law by failing to move along, then began making arrests."

This doesn't make anyone look bad but the protesters and only fuels the fire for the war supporters. I support the anti-war movement and used to support Cindy but now I don't know about the latter - just because George W. Bush broke laws doesn't mean we should start breaking them too. Protest should be peaceful and lawful. Cindy and the others have gone too far if this story is correct.

[American Infidel]

154. That's what civil disobedience is

Civil disobedience implies that you are disobedient and that you break the law in a peaceful way as opposed to an armed conflict to arouse sympathy and spur change in a society.

[AZBlue]

166. Thanks for the definition...

...but I already knew that.

"...arouse sympathy and spur change in a society." -- you really think that this is going to do either? There are much more effective routes to take, ones that would actually educate those in the dark and gain both sympathy and support for the cause. I'm not arguing against her battle - I support it. I want to see it succeed. And, I don't think this is the way to do that.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

190. What are the "more effective routes" that we should take?

I would like to know.

[AZBlue]

210. Off the top of my head:

Blast the media. Educate friends. Attend protests and rallies yourself and don't push Cindy to this extreme - she's just one woman, she can't do it all herself. Get involved in the upcoming elections - make it clear that you won't support Sens and Reps that support the war and donate to or volunteer for those that don't support it. Distribute flyers. Attend meetings for groups that oppose the war (I'm sure everyone has them in their area if even Red Arizona does!). Even just put an anti-war bumper sticker on your car to counter all those stupid yellow ribbons - I've got a ribbon magnet that says "Support the Troops. Bring them home!" There are SO SO many things, some big, some small, that can be done. Just give a little time - maybe get off the DU blog every now and then (where we're all really just preaching to the choir) and DO SOMETHING. Get involved. And, encourage others to do the same - there are many people out there that don't support the war but are afraid to do something or don't know where to go - show them the way! That's just a start but I'm sure you get the idea.

[American Infidel]

216. All of those things are great but...

Why not add civil disobedience to that list? I don't see how it detracts from the anti-war movement?

[AZBlue]

315. Time and Place (a further explanation of sorts)

I just wrote a very long response to this but my computer froze, so I'm going to short-hand it now. This further clarifies what I meant previously - it's for you and the others on this board that understand the need for intelligent conversation. If you're into name calling, give it up - I'm not responding to those kinds of attacks anymore.

So here it is:

I thank God for those who have gone before us and did what they had to do to settle this country, create an independent nation, fight for civil rights, earn the women's vote and more. The list is long and I admire and respect them - and yes, they broke laws and "practiced civil disobedience" and that was important and vital to the fight. Without their bravery and heroism we might live in a very different country today.

Civil disobedience in and of itself isn't wrong. But, the goal here is to further the anti-war movement and gather support and strength. I don't believe that this will have that effect. We live in a conservative society - by that I'm not referring to politics. The prevailing thought right now is to be good and follow the rules (just look at the Gen Y'ers). That combined with the fact that we are a "news in 60 seconds society" makes it important that we look at the big picture at all times. Getting arrested will energize those who already support the anti-war movement but will turn a lot of people who may be undecided or unsure of the movement against it. How is that furthering the cause? We have to educate those who don't know what we who are on this board have taken the time to find out - that this war is wrong and we were lied to. A sound bite about someone being arrested at the WH is going to have just the opposite effect.

It's the same issue liberals face in elections and political battles on the Hill - the Republicans own the media and the government and until we learn to beat them at their own game we will only give them fuel for their fire. It's absolutely horrible that this is the way it is, but until we accept the reality of it we can't change it. They own the game but they don't play it that well and are beaten by it when we try (as evidenced by Katrina) - their own arrogance makes them extremely vulnerable. Once we use their own game against them, we can get out of Iraq, support the poor, boost our education system and whatever else we want. But, we need to be smart about how we go about it.


Like I said, this is the shorter version - it leaves out some details, but you get the idea. I'm sure some of you will disagree with things I've said (or everything I've said) and that's fine - you're entitled to you own opinion. Just remember I'm entitled to mine too though - I've been very saddened by the nasty and juvenile responses some have posted. I really thought that we were allowed free speech in this country. What happened to debate and discussion??

Anyway, I have got to get back to work - I'm sure my boss would die if he knew how much time I spent on DU so far today. Have a great day everyone!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

326. Thanks for your response

I couldn't answer sooner because I was at work and actually had to work instead of read DU :)

What I have found happening in my little part of the country is that folks fall into one of three camps: informed and mad about what Bush has done to this country; Kool Aid drinkers who have told me to my face that Bush is the Second Coming; apathetic people who don't really have a clue what is going on.

I have found that the Kool Aid drinkers lie fluently about who we are and what we are doing; I have been called a drug taking jobless hippie, when in truth I have worked since I was in college, have never taken illegal drugs, and tend NOT to wear tie dye :) It seems that no matter what we do, we're lied about by these people, so I've given up on them.

The apathetic are the ones who can be awakened and pursuaded. But what I find is most effective is films. F911 changed a LOT of minds in the red state where I live.

What I'd like to see is MORE DVDs made and distributed that tell the truth about Bush, Iraq, and the military.

[AZBlue]

329. Excellent point!!!

I'm still at work and still on DU - must be that commie-subversive-hippie side of me! :hippie:

You are so right about the power of film - I remember when I saw F911 I walked out of the theater smiling because I felt someone had finally figured out a way to get the message across to that group of people who don't want to read newspapers or go onto blogs or dig deeper themselves. Here was all the info that was important presented in an "entertaining" way. Easily understood and readily available. And, it did change the way a lot of people thought about the war and Bush. Finally, they saw the light! We need more Michael Moores!

I agree - the Kool Aid drinkers are lost - at least for now. But, I also think - or I guess hope - that they are in the minority. They are loud, but are not the majority.

Those apathetic ones are what I'm after - maybe just getting them a little more info, a slight push, a nudge in the right direction....maybe, just maybe, we can get them to finally DO something! Wouldn't that be something!? :applause:

[American Infidel]

337. I agree but...

I agree that the public needs to be educated, but Cindy is educated and she is acting. She is doing what she thinks is best to gain attention so that people will listen to her. I have no problem at all with educating the public and engaging in debates with pro-war people as you have advocated, however, I also see no problem with civil disobedience in the face of injustice and applaud Cindy for listening to her conscience and standing up for something even though she may be standing alone.

[AZBlue]

448. Even if you're losing more than you're gaining? (n/t)

[CAcyclist]

349. I think you're projecting a bit

"If you're into name calling, give it up - I'm not responding to those kinds of attacks anymore."

Love it, just love it. :sarcasm:

You are so transparent. I hope you wasted a lot of time on this, 'cause ya ain't fooling anyone.

[jbm]

382. I hope you keep on posting here,,,

I found a lot of wisdom in your post. I think we have to be real careful to do the things that are truly effective, even though a lot of times there are things we could justify doing that would feel better and give us more personal satisfaction.

anyway, thanks for the post!

[AZBlue]

431. Thank you!

I appreciate your post!

[Why Syzygy]

393. What is your solution?

I do disagree with your assessment of civil disobedience.

How do you think women won the right to vote?
Minorities gained civil liberties?

If you have a better solution, please spell it out.

I've missed the parts where people were "nasty and juvenile".
Do you have examples to represent those accusations?

Debate and discussion run rampant on DU. Pay attention.

If you don't like it here, why are you?

[NashVegas]

352. I Think You're Wrong

What was inspiring about people like Ghandi & MLK and their followers was that they were taking genuine risks; risks of being physically harmed, risks of arrest. They showed us the importance of true bravery, that standing up for your beliefs in the face of abuse has power to affect change.

There is no risk attached to sending an email blast. The only risk you run with bumper stickers is the risk of pissing off a Freeper. Now, if said Freeper wants to pick a fight with you, and you manage to get some publicity for that, yeah that might inspire someone.

It's our fear of taking risks that has sidelined the left. Maybe not just the left. More like the whole country.

[PinkyisBlue]

402. Idealistic

I have read all of your posts, and I find your thoughts to be almost annoyingly idealistic. It would be nice if we could put a magnetic sticker on our cars to change people's opinions about the war, but it just doesn't work that way.

You state that there are so many things that can be done and that we should get off the DU blog and GET INVOLVED, yet you're critical of Cindy Sheehan and others who are doing just that. Which action is getting more attention and demanding more discussion about the war, driving around with a magnetic ribbon on your car or peacefully protesting in front of the White House and getting arrested?

I can personally attest that education doesn't always work. The last time I discussed Bush and his policies with a Republican "friend" was a year ago, and I was called a Communist. I have found that many conservatives do not want to rationally discuss Bush's policies; they prefer to stick to their talking points and aren't open to facts that don't support their viewpoint.

Cindy Sheehan is a grown woman and knows what she's doing. Noone is pushing her to do anything she doesn't want to do. If "W" had talked with her last month, her mission would be over. His refusal to meet with her does make me wonder why he's refusing, what he is hiding. It also angers me that he feels he's not accountable to the people of this country to answer Cindy's questions, our questions, about this terrible war. He has put himself above all of us, the people, and that's wrong. Cindy Sheehan is representing all of us.

[American Infidel]

192. Can you give me some examples?

In answer to your question, I think that if Cindy inspires others who've been affected by this war to stand against it, then yes it will arouse sympathy and spur change in our society. What exactly did you have in mind as to what would be more effective routes to take?

[AZBlue]

212. see above please

[donheld]

335. Welcome to DU American Infidel

:hi:

[American Infidel]

336. Thanks

Thank you.

[TankLV]

367. Umm - SURE you do!

Keep telling us all that!

We ain't buyin' whay you're sellin!

[laureloak]

158. Oh no it doesn't. It spurs the movement on. n/t

[iconoclastic cat]

160. AZBlue, I respectfully advise you to educate yourself

on the concept of civil disobedience. It does occasionally involve breaking laws.

Edited for typo

[AZBlue]

172. NO KIDDING?!

Of course it does - would it be called "civil disobedience" if it didn't?? Please read what I have to say and think about it before you jump on someone else's bandwagon.

[iconoclastic cat]

186. Yep. I re-read your post very carefully, and now I absolutely know

that I do not agree with you in any way whatsoever.

[AZBlue]

214. and that is the wonderful thing about this country (and this site)

We don't have to agree.

And we are both allowed to express our differing opinions.

That is what this board is for, right? Otherwise it's just a bitch session and that's not exactly productive.

[Why Syzygy]

398. Then why

are you downing Cindy? And her method? Differing, ya know.

Bitch sessions are very productive. Have you ever had one?

[leftchick]

164. you must be a rookie at protesting

it is called civil disobedience. It is how you start a revolution! And on the contrary, it makes the crawford impostor look like the COWARD that he is.

:eyes:

[AZBlue]

175. Been in several including CRAWFORD...

...where were you?

[leftchick]

225. DC all weekend

with several hundred thousand others.

[AZBlue]

301. That's awesome!

I had planned on being there but had to work and couldn't get out of it. I gave my ticket and hotel room to a friend though so I was there in spirit! I'm kind of jealous you went - that must have been amazing. I would have given anything to go!

[Why Syzygy]

403. which side of the ditch were you on? nt

[redwitch]

167. Oh for goodness sake.

Sitting on the sidewalk praying, going too far??!!! Go away, get some gumption or something.

[Name removed]

183. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[0007]

229. Catch a dummy man and while your at it get a gold star.

[redwitch]

261. Me? A republican?

Now you're really pissing me off.

[AZBlue]

281. Right back at 'cha

Why am I not allowed to express my opinion?

[redwitch]

298. you are.

and I told you how I felt about your opinion. Seems pretty damned American to me and very democratic.

[Why Syzygy]

399. Must be something about "persecution" ..

poor thing. Get a hard coat. It works better.

[AZBlue]

434. I love debate, discussion, conversation and hearing differing opinions...

...and arguing different ideas. What I find disappointing is name-calling, nasty responses and the like. I thought DU'ers believed in free speech? Seems like a lot of them do but some (and it seems you may be one of them) don't want to hear anyone say anything that might not be right in step with their thoughts and ideas. That's not a democracy and I thought upholding a democracy was why we were all here. You're entitled to your own opinion and I respect it. What I ask is you show the same respect to me. I have yet to see it.

[doni_georgia]

168. This is civil disobedience - been used since the infancy of this country

Boston tea Party was act of civil disobedience. Why would this HURT the anti-war movement. MLK was arrested for civil disobedience - did it hurt the Civil Rights movement? Gandhi was arrested for civil disobedience in India - did it hurt India's bid for freedom? Get real.

[ticapnews]

170. 1st Amendment (which was posted above as well)

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances

This is exactly what Cindy did. She tried to get a meeting with Shrub (ie: petition the government for redress of grievances). When the Legal Affairs office (and I'd still like to know why THEY were involved) said no, she and her friends decided to make a peaceable assembly outside the people's house. AFAIK, they were there peacably, not doing anything disruptive other than breathing.

[awoke_in_2003]

178. Excuse me...

to quote your post:

"Protest should be peaceful and lawful. Cindy and the others have gone too far if this story is correct."

The sit-ins at the white cafeterias in the south during the 60's were also unlawful. The law made those white-establishments. So by your logic, what MLK and everyone else did was wrong? Just because something is unlawful doesn't make it wrong.

How has Cindy done wrong? Did she violently resist? No, first she protested. After 2 months of no results, she practiced a little passive, peaceful civil disobedience. She sat down and would not move, that is it. Did it on a sidewalk, endangered no ones life. Hopefully this has similar results to past historic sit-ins. Time to shake it up a bit.

[mcscajun]

180. Civil disobedience doesn't hurt the anti-war movement. It defines it.

Violent protests would hurt it, but not continuing in the tradition of Gandhi, Susan B. Anthony, Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, the Berrigan Brothers, and many others, including Martin Sheen.

[earth mom]

260. Agree with you 100%

Edited to add:

GO CINDY! Kick some A$$! In a peaceful non violent way of course! O8)

[LSK]

195. what law was broken??

The whole basis of your argument hinges on an unspecified (so far) law.

[Shakespeare]

240. You are wrong.

That is all.

Good night, and good luck.

[Name removed]

289. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Shakespeare]

292. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

My reply was not immature. It was concise and to the point.

It certainly got under YOUR skin, however. Wonder why that is.

[AZBlue]

299. You think it's funny not to allow free speech - that's scary!

You got under my skin because I don't like people who don't allow free speech. Why can't I express my opinion? (and if you respond, don't avoid the question - that's another right-wing tactic)

[Shakespeare]

323. Wanna talk rightwing tactics? How about putting words in peoples' mouths.

Did I say you weren't entitled to your opinion? No. I just disagreed with you. I didn't tell you to shut up, I didn't tell you not to express your opinion; I simply disagreed with you.

There's a difference, you know. Of course, I'm sure you already knew that.

[Name removed]

325. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Shakespeare]

328. Wow...you have 45 posts, and you're accusing ME of being a freeper?

Well, that's new and different. I stated my opinion. My opinion is that you are wrong. If you view that as "no room for alternative views," that's your inference.

I'm neither sidestepping the topic nor avoiding the question. Perhaps you can specifically ask me whatever it is that's on your mind?

[Why Syzygy]

401. Free speach on this forum

is limited to non-freeper ideas. That's the way it is. And we like it like that.

Welcome.... kinda. Get some history behind you before you start taking on the old timers would be my suggestion.

[AZBlue]

432. Are you calling me a freeper??

You must be joking.

[Why Syzygy]

445. Of course not

that's against the rules. Something you might want to check into.
That is all. EOM

[TankLV]

368. Grow up honey. You've got a long way to go.

Get out of our way.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION.

You are an excuse maker.

You are a scolder.

And you just joined up to do that to add insult to injury.

No thanks honey.

Lister to all the other posters who've got you're number.

It is sure fun toying with one of these!

[ToolTex]

251. Maybe you are just a simpleton or haven't heard of the Bill of Rights?

I can't tell which.

[AZBlue]

291. Name calling is pretty immature - I came to have intelligent conversation

but obviously I can't have that with you.

[Richard Steele]

338. You don't seem able to have one with ANYONE here.

At least, you have failed in every attempt so far.

FYI, disagreement is a healthy part of "intelligent conversation".

If you continue to regard every disagreement
as some sort of attack, I fear your quest
for intelligent conversation is doomed to fail.

And, no, this post is NOT an attack either.
It is intended as friendly advice.

Anyone can get off to a bad start, as you have...
And anyone can step back, and try again.

Welcome to DU!

[TankLV]

369. Um, sure - accusing other's with a well earned long reputation of being

freepers and repukes.

Sure you do honey.

Want some cheeze with that whine?

[bklyncowgirl]

253. Civil Disobedience worked for Gandhi and Martin Luther King

It is a time-honored method for raising awareness and speaking truth to power.

I applaud Cindy Sheehan for her courage and commitment.

[fudge stripe cookays]

254. Bullcrap.

It's civil disobedience, and it was GOING to HAVE to come to this to get anything accomplished in this nation.

That's the way all major causes have had to happen. It's starting. The Pro-War people hate us anyway. Anyone who's on the fence that sees what lengths this woman will go to to prove a point will see that we're serious.

FSC

[fudge stripe cookays]

255. If Rosa Parks were here....

I hope she'd slap you silly.

FSC

[Don Claybrook]

322. We don't need you around anyway

Thanks for your tepid support, but you can move along now.

[TankLV]

370. Here here!

Step up to the plate or get out of the way!

I recommend GET OUT OF THE WAY!

[AZBlue]

449. You only allow those who march in step with you?

That's sad.

[Caoimhe]

324. and I have oceanfront property in Kansas real cheap

"I support the anti-war movement and Cindy"

Somehow I doubt the truthfulness of that.


"Protest should be peaceful and lawful. Cindy and the others have gone too far if this story is correct."

It's called civil disobedience. It is entirely peaceful. You aren't fooling anyone.

[TankLV]

366. You then don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Just joined up to scold us all with your "wisdom"? My. My. My. There are a lot of you lately.

Better get some popcorn then, and SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP AND GET OUT OF THE WAY, because it's gonna get worse.

Which side of the comming civil war will you be on?

I think we know.

And I don't know why you're suddenly all so "concerned" - you certainly are not a part of "we", honey!

[AZBlue]

433. Is this how you welcome new people to DU? Is is a clique?

Your post sure makes it seem that way.

"I don't know why you're suddenly all so 'concerned' " - I've been involved in democratic politics for over 10 years - just because I wasn't posting on this site doesn't mean I'm new to the game.

DON'T ASSUME.

[ToolTex]

140. Unbelievable! Here we go...

n/t

[Politicub]

147. Her arrest in an outrage!

I'm ashamed of our country.

[LizW]

165. Cindy will be fine. The can't "disappear" famous people.

Martin Sheen has been arrested over 60 times for protesting wars, various human rights violations and injustices.

Go Cindy!!

:thumbsup:

[rodeodance]

173. Most Emailed Politics News good related news.

from yahoo site


Most Emailed Politics News xml

1.
Anti war demonstrators hold up signs as they march in front of the White House Saturday, Sept. 24, 2005 in Washington. (AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)
Spirits High During Anti-Iraq War Rallies AP - Mon Sep 26, 4:24 AM ET Sent 296 times

WASHINGTON - Spirits were high during weekend rallies in the nation's capital, but that's where the similarities ended, as one demonstration supported and the other opposed the war in Iraq.

[aion]

176. Does sitting down relieve the urge to urinate?

Does sitting down relieve the urge to urinate? My grandmother has to do all sorts of things, including but not limited to sitting down and even wiggling her leg. I don't try to understand it, but I certainly have observed it.

If porta-potties were not available nearby, and if there are pictures to illustrate this fact, then this case could get very interesting very quickly.

[rodeodance]

184. my breaking news just now from abc.

I get this but nothing about Cindy arrest!!

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:

DON ADAMS, WHO PLAYED A BUMBLING SECRET AGENT IN "GET SMART," HAS DIED, FRIEND SAYS


http://abcnews.go.com?CMP=EMC-1396

[Dunvegan]

191. I wrote the AP...AKA..."A$$Hat Provocateurs"....

I strongly object to the partisan and "editorial" wording of the first line of the AP wire story of Sep 26, 2005, 2:35 PM EDT on the civil disobedience arrest of Gold Star mother Cindy Sheehan.

Link to article here: http://tinyurl.com/7g7vp

The line, "Cindy Sheehan, the California woman who has used her son's death in Iraq to spur the anti-war movement, was arrested Monday while protesting outside the White House." is editorial and partisan.

I object to the non-objective phrase "used her son."

If your son or daughter had been killed by, what was in your estimation, an act of negligence or mis-representation (drunk driver, lied to about safety of event, etc.) going to court and calling for accountability of what you believed to be the negligent party would NOT be considered "using your child's death".

In fact, it would be the polar opposite: defending the unnecessary death of your child by demanding accountability of the negligent parties.

Ms. Sheehan has consistently put forth the question to the administration: What noble cause did Casey die for?"

The world watched America during the days of Martin Luther King and his acts of civil disobedience when he asked "Why?"

AP: Again, the world is watching.

If Ms. Sheehan is nominated for, and perhaps wins, a Nobel Peace Prize, will you still comment in this manner?

Shame on you, Associated Press, for editorializing an act of civil disobedience. What ever happened to "reporting" the news?

Sincerely,
Leia Amidon CISSP
Partner, Sunstorm Security Group
First-Responder San Francisco CERT-NERT (Neighborhood Emergency Responder Team)

[lakeguy]

256. nice! the wording was horrendous!

[Imalittleteapot]

193. Look at it like this:

At least the article mentioned that 100,000 protested the war and 500 supported the war. This may be the only mention of the estimated numbers that many Americans will ever see.

Thanks Cindy for getting arrested. I suspect that you knew exactly what you were doing. So did MLK.

[kath]

348. But, there were well over 100,000 there. That piece UNDERestimates the

# of anti-war protesters and, from what I've read, OVER estimates the # of pro-war protesters.

[ToolTex]

194. National Public Radio finally has just gotten around to reporting it.

I just heard it on Dallas KERA-Public Radio. They did a fair job of reporting it. Short but not twisted with freeper counter-protesters.

[savemefromdumbya]

196. On international news - yes the whole world is watching - Dumbya!

Our friends at the "Beeb"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4284684.stm

[Name removed]

200. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LSK]

202. read the IWR

The conditions for military action against Iraq WERE NOT MET.

This war is illegal.

[trogdor]

203. So telling people to put up or shut up is wrong?

What universe do you inhabit? Remind me never to move there.

[Name removed]

221. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Binka]

230. Hey Mark The Mods Are On This And About To Boot You

Convince you? Who the fuck are you? We know this to be true.... BUSH FUCKING LIED! End of the mother fucking story. Fools you say? Got a mirror. C Ya.

[trogdor]

246. Uh, right.

How can we know the extent of all the issues involved in this War and how it came about. We think we know because people told us something.

It is only my point to say that Time will Tell if it was worth the effort.

Well, the President of the United States told us that Saddam Hussein had nukes, tanker trucks full of anthrax, and God knows what else. We were also told he gassed his own people (back in 1988 when he was our ally, but we weren't supposed to remember that), that he ran rape rooms (sort of like the ones we would run later), that Uday tortured the national soccer team, and all kinds of other shit, as if that had anything to do with us, and if that wasn't enough to convince us, there was a team of scriptwriters ready to make up some more shit that would. We were also told we would be welcomed as liberators that we could do the job neatly with only 150,000 troops, and that we'd be over there for a six months...a year, tops.

How much of that WMD shit actually existed? Zero. Was there ever any "imminent danger" of an attack by Iraq on the United States? Hell no. Saddam Hussein was just another blowhard tinpot dictator who was safely under our thumb, and could have been kept there for the rest of his natural life for a fraction of what our "nation building" exercise is now costing every couple of months, and that doesn't even count the cost in lives and our national honor. This shit wasn't worth even one American's life, and I challenge YOU to convince ME otherwise.

[lakeguy]

223. right!

"How do we know everything we need to know in terms of if this war is warranted or not? Who knows."

How do we know you are an idiot? Because, by all rules and definitions in the international court of law, this war was ILLEGAL. Of course I'm sure you think that international laws are for losers, right?

We need no time to tell what the truth is and the answer is obvious, except to those with blind faith...this war was illegal at the outset. Everything about it! There was no proof, only supposition. Suppose I think you are a murderer but have no proof. Doesn't matter, if we take the "Iraq" rule, you are executed (at least in states like TX). Too bad, so sad. But I "thought" you were a murderer will be my excuse. That's okay, right?

Here's my mission statement to you...if a relative of yours (or anyone for that matter) dies for a lie, it is your right to fight back. You fight back in any way you can, not just the ways your glorious leaders tell you that you can. If you can prevent just one death from occurring due to this monstrous lie, then you have succeeded.

PS-try using spell check freeptard!

PPS-you should sign up for service again, then maybe you will find the "truth".

[Name removed]

235. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lakeguy]

245. well, if you want to say that "no one knows" whether or not this war was

just, well, that's just plain ignorant. sorry if the truth hurts buddy. it's not my fault you refuse to educate yourself.

btw, no one wants you attention. it's obvious where it lies....no pun intended.

ps-i can spell freepturd anyway i want. it's not even a word smarty.

[K-W]

227. DU doesnt exist to impress people hostile to its cause.

I however disagree with people telling other people to go sign up for the War on Iraq.


So people who support the war shouldnt be encouraged to volunteer for it? Why not?


Cindy has her rights to protest and to get arrested for breaking the law. Which she did. For a long time, the law has been that u may not hang out outside the White House. It has something to do with the threat of terrorism and was in place long before 9-11.

I can only guess that she knew this befor doing so.

It was civil disobedience she was most certainly aware of the repercussions of her actions although I do not think you are correct about the reason she was arrested.

Her son, joined a voluntary military for his own reasons, knowing that he might have to fight someday.

When a person signs up, there is a contract to sign.
Everything is explained.

Im not sure what you are arguing with this point and the point about your service. Of course this is the case, but that has nothing to do with anything.

How do we know everything we need to know in terms of if this war is warranted or not? Who knows.

I know. Most people on this forum know. If you dont know I encourage you to educate yourself. Wars are not justified until proven unjustified anyway.

Only time will tell.

Time already told.

I appreciate the fact that DU is trying to get support for its cause.

I see nowhere where you state what your cause is?

It might help if you had a mission statement.

DU is a discussion forum, but the mission, which I am sure is on the site somewhere is to oppose the policies of Bush and the Republican Party. Since it is a discussion forum however, the main goal is providing people with a place to discuss issues, exchange information, organize etc.

Look thru your forums and you will see that 90% if what goes on here is just people running their mouths in anger with no helpful retoric to further ur cause.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, but that statement does not reflect my experience on DU at all.

It is a mistake to boot a conservative from your forums if you had convincing evidence that boost your causes for him to see.

Conservatives can see the forum without posting on it. It is not a mistake to boot conservatives from a site that exists for Democrats to discuss things amongst themselves. One forum cannot serve all purposes. The forum cannot both be a left-right debate forum and a Democratic discussion forum.

It is wise to boot him if all he can see is a bunch of fools with no purpose other than to pat each other on the back.

I suppose, but if thats your opinion of Democrats your analysis of DU is worthless.

DEMOCRACY is about EVERYONE.

Right which is why there are discussion forums all over the internet for all kinds of purposes, discussions, and groups, many of which contain debates between various groups. Democracy does not mean that every forum must be right-left arguments.

I hope this was not offensive. I see it as an independent looking at both sides , hoping that one day we can all work together for a lasting resolution.

Well, we will work together with anyone interested in peace, justice, and democracy.

[ElectroPrincess]

244. OK, then are you part of the following action - guilt by association?

"Look thru your forums and you will see that 90% if what goes on here is just people running their mouths in anger with no helpful retoric to further ur cause."

Yep, love that rhetoric ... but this is not a forum for conservatives and/or republicans. Sorry. :(

[Trevelyan]

373. Cindy Sheehan's son was lied to as are so many young people being recruite

Her son was told he could be a chaplain and instead was forced to fight. Many people who signed up with the promise of education in a particular field are told later to raise their hand if they ever did drugs and that is one way the military then tells them that they are not eligible for the training and section they signed up for.

One real veterans' site showed several men with severe shrapnel wounds who were given $3,000 to sign up and the military asked for the money back with heavy handed tactics since those missing limbs and with deep shrapnel wounds were unable "to keep their contract for the 18 months" or however long they signed up for. That was during the "elections" now they are promising $30,000 to sign up and I wonder how many debt collectors they are sending to soldiers and their families seriously wounded because they cannot go back to fulfill the "terms of their contract" which illegally means three or more tours of duty and slavery in refusing to let the soldiers leave Iraq when the time they signed up for is up.

Tell me more about "freely" signing contracts with the military.

Hilary ignored the requests of a military man and his wife who was dumped in a different state after he got off the plane from the one he lived in and did not have gas money to get home because the military took his last paycheck when he left the hospital. Hilary only got involved when another Rep from NY did and it hit the newspapers.

[ElectroPrincess]

237. Deja Vu ?

Oh, that's French, isn't it? :blush: :hi:

[RetroLounge]

239. Nice knowing you...

not...

RL

[Shakespeare]

242. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Uh....okay. :eyes:

[graywarrior]

201. Rock on, sister.

[peacetalksforall]

204. 21 st century leaders -

This mom's name will be added to a grand list of names.

Hope they don't beat her up.

Otherwise, this is a good thing - because of the publicity. Perhaps we shouldn't clue the WH on this or they will instruct their partners in propaganda to pull the news alert and coverage.

Then we will have only a few good souls in this country and the foreign press will cover it.

[Dunvegan]

206. Donations: Most Direct Route for a Donation to Cindy

Anyone know if the Crawford Peace House is the most direct route to donate directly to Cindy?

I'm thinking this hero might benefit from a legal defense fund as things go forward.

And my guess is that with Cindy things will continue to go forward.

[rodeodance]

215. 10 sec. clip on msnbc just now. Cindy carried then walked.

[WinkyDink]

219. The police saying something is a law doesn't mean it is.

What specific law is Cindy accused of breaking? Just because she "was warned three times" doesn't mean beans, if the police were simply being arbitrary a**holes.
You watch; she will be released ASAP. The D.C. police will be lucky not to be sued.

[jayfish]

234. I Read One Story That Said...

"protesting without a permit". Can't remember witch one though.

Jay

[brentspeak]

220. Probably not a good idea to enjoy getting arrested

Pictures of a smiling Cindy Sheehan being carried off by cops makes it look like she thinks the whole thing is "fun". There should be nothing "fun" about it, at all.

[Dunvegan]

231. Nothing wrong with Cindy smiling...

She's not the first to do so.

...Gahndi would wear a smile when he was practicing civil disobedience.



Aung San Suu Kyi from Burma who won the Nobel Peace Prize always smiled when being arrested or held to house arrest.



Martin himself was known to have a wistful smile play across his face when being arrested:



Standing up for American values, even in civil disobedience, should be a joyous event, actually.

(Edited to say: Smiling shows something else: That we're not afraid. Not afraid to speak truth to power.)

[ElsewheresDaughter]

294. Berrigan pics

[Charlie Brown]

249. I don't think the smiling conveys that the arrest is "fun"

It just gives reassurance to her supporters and patriots that the arrest is part of the plan and that they shouldn't be discouraged.

[Dunvegan]

273. Agreed...CharlieBrown

[usregimechange]

228. God Bless her!

[rateyes]

233. As I see it...

Cindy is part owner of that sidewalk in front of the White House. In fact, she's part owner of the White House...as are we all. She wasn't making any bodily threats against * or anyone else in the admnistration...she and those with her just want an answer to a simple question---a question * has yet to answer. "What was the noble cause?"

Why should she be arrested for sitting OUTSIDE the gate of the White House on a piece of property of which she is part owner, when she is doing nothing but requesting a meeting with the person who sent her son to die in a war of agression?

No one who is obviously not a threat should be stopped from sitting on the sidewalk outside the gate of the White House. This just goes to show you what kind of coward * is.

He is too dumb to realize that if he would take 1 hour of his precious time (for which we pay him) and talk with Cindy and these families and answer the question he's asked, "What was the noble cause," or admit the fact that there was no noble cause--she would go away.

[lakeguy]

236. agreed! this may be the mistake that brings bush down.....

"only time will tell" to quote the numbnuts a few posts above.

[Fluffdaddy]

243. Lets not go overboard here.

[redwitch]

314. Whose streets?

OUR streets! :bounce:

[rateyes]

331. OUR STREETS! Damned straight! eom

[Igel]

241. That was apparently the goal.

If you know X --> Y, and insist on X when it's not necessary, it can only be because you want Y. There's no sense being upset or outraged about it. If she didn't intend to be arrested she makes parboiled rice look smart.

[Name removed]

248. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElectroPrincess]

257. What is this friggin' "Daily KOS" onslaught ...

Hum ... since when did this get elevated to the "democratic talking points."

God Bless Cindy! And all you lurking FREEPERS? Go join the Army now! Many of us have already served our country. All pro-war persons should either join the active duty military or sign up with da CONTRACTORS OF WAR, i.e., Blackwater, CACI, Halliburton, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, etc. etc. :puke:

[Name removed]

259. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElectroPrincess]

263. OK, I'll play, what words? /eom

[Name removed]

265. Deleted message

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[rateyes]

269. In what military unit in Iraq are you serving, jimmyjay?

just asking.

[Name removed]

274. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rateyes]

283. Did you lose your leg in service?

And, BTW, thanks for your service to our country. And, if you did lose your leg in service, then you must know how disgusting it is to see people like Max Cleland called unpatriotic and a supporter of terrorism by people like Saxby Chambliss and other freeper types who "talk the talk" but don't "walk the walk."

It's not shallow, at all. I was asking you a question to find out if you were, like most freepers, a chicken-hawk. Just wanted to know something about the person who was doing the talking, since you give very little info in your profile.

[Name removed]

293. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rateyes]

305. I know that sucks, to lose a leg like that...

I had to go to a funeral of a 12 yr old on the day before thanksgiving, and then to the funeral of his father on Christmas Eve a month later, the result of an accident with a drunk driver---

You must know something of what Cindy Sheehan must feel like, then---to lose a son in a meaningless fashion--no noble cause, no WMD, and proof that Bush knew there was no WMD---

Loss is a terrible thing to have to deal with, and she has chosen to deal with it in a way that tries (much like Mothers Against Drunk Drivers deal with the loss of their children to DUI offenders) to make sure that no other families have to deal with the grief with which she deals every day.

I'm not going to criticize her for wanting a microphone, because that's how she is going to accomplish her mission. And, make no mistake, she will accomplish her mission.

[ElectroPrincess]

270. Yes, but not something to OBSESS 24/7 national news exclusives on

The sick-minded Corporate National Cable News Media WILL NOT focus on more than one event at a time. Why do you think that is? It's not because they are incompetent, it's because they are spewing PROPAGANDA. Only so much will play with the masses. The PEOPLE of the USA are beginning to WTFU.

It's time to tell the truth.

LOUD AND CLEAR!

[K-W]

271. Is nitpicking the best you can do?

Her point was that there are other important issues that deserve coverage along with the hurricane. A perfectly reasonable opinion.

[Name removed]

278. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[K-W]

285. let her go home?

Nobody is forcing her to do what she is doing. She can go home whenever she wants. If you dont support her thats your business, but many peopld do and I really dont see the point in discouraging the most dynamic segment of the anti war movement.

[trogdor]

262. But there ARE other things going on.

Rita is over. Houston still stands (thank God). The effect on our oil industry was minimized (kudos). Someone inform CNN.

The MSM covers stuff like hurricanes to excess. There is no way I need to sit there and watch hour after hour after hour of this junk. You'd think one of those news networks would figure this out and balance coverage of the Storm of the Week with whatever else is happening in the world.

Cindy wants what we all want - to not let George W. Bush get away with committing the nation to war over bullshit. Can't handle that? Tough shit, because Cindy's not going away, allusions by the pro-war minority of her fifteen minutes being up notwithstanding.

[Name removed]

267. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElectroPrincess]

275. She did NOT use the word trivial ... but I bet Rove will when he spins it,

don't you?

[Name removed]

280. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElectroPrincess]

287. No, not your point, my point is that she did NOT disrespect "Rita"

However, the ghouls in the Republican Noise machine will TWIST her words in that regard, just like you are attempting to do.

What you fail to realize is that it don't play with those who keep up with current events.

No, 24/7 obsession with ONLY ONE topic makes for State Sponsored Propaganda. Nothing more.

Cindy made a valid point. But like the way you disrespected a War Veteran, John McCain, you'll twist her comments into something diabolical.

How can you look in the mirror each morning is a pure mystery to me. Willful ignorance?

[Name removed]

290. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElectroPrincess]

295. OK, I'll opt for the "willful ignorance" choice without calling a friend..

Let it go please, this horse is dead. :hi:

[lakeguy]

264. haha, freeps don't even realize they are pushing cindy into the

spotlight everytime they whine. they just keep posting and bringing it right back to the top.

just like the bush cable doesn't realize how arresting cindy will keep the story on the front page.

how can such a bunch of friggen idiots be in charge?

[Name removed]

266. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lakeguy]

296. why don't you just type "bump" and save us all the trouble?

[Name removed]

297. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lakeguy]

303. almost there...you-can-do-it....bump!

[Trevelyan]

376. That was an embarrased smile. Cindy is shy and courageously standing up

and helping the victims of Katrina in Mississippi with Michael Moore since FEMA won't allow anyone to save the lives of those in NOLA.

Cindy seems like a shy person who is ignoring her shyness because of what she believes in and I admire her more than ever.

I think that MSM does need to cover the fact that tons of food donated by the UK, Spain, Israel, Italy is in warehouses scheduled to be incinerated and the other things FEMA did and is doing to murder those in NOLA.

And the "disappearing" of American citizens victims of Katrina and even before that in the confusion of Hurricane Charley. There is a missing person, a college age blond young man just the type that the MK-ULTRA Monarch and sex slave programs kidnap, See The Finders, the CIA admission that they run it out of Tallahassee and the FBI covering up this huge kidnapping of American children for sex slaves.

http://www.globalnewsmatrix.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2449

Refugees from New Orleans behind barbed wire in Utah
Posted on Wednesday, September 07 Utah's Governor Jon Huntsman has taken in some of the New Orleans refugees, at Camp Williams. Replete with barbed wire, armed soldiers with weapons at ready, police and sheriff with weapons at ready, and hell, they must surely feel right at home. In America yet.

What bullshit! I'm not done with this outrage, not by a long shot. I'm actually just getting started.

[VegasWolf]

252. YES!!! It is FUCKING time!!! Go Cindy!!

[TheVirginian]

268. How could anyone not see this coming?

Especially since the group's agenda today was to get arrested.

[earth mom]

272. GO CINDY! GO CINDY! GO CINDY! GO CINDY! GO CINDY! GO CINDY! GO CINDY!

Just had to say it again!

CINDY ROCKS!!!

:applause:

[goforit]

277. W stands for wimp at the WH. What a F#$king coward!!!

[rateyes]

312. How true...

one can't spell "coward" without a W.

[blue agave]

279. Go Cindy Go Cindy eom

[nankerphelge]

282. Finally that scofflaw is behind bars...

I can feel a wave of relief washing over the country now that she's been apprehended.:sarcasm:

[nigelthebrit]

284. Cindy Sheehan: "A free soul in jail".

Like Eugene Victor Debs in his day, Cindy Sheehan is truly "...a free soul in jail" - more than Bush will ever be.

If the day comes when I have to make a stand on principle, I pray that I'll have as much courage as Cindy has shown today:-)

[Trevelyan]

365. The Courts Upholding the Never Charged Jose Padilla Without Trial for Year

How many years has Jose Padilla been held without charges?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20050918&articleId=969

~~~Its Happening in Canada: Five Years of Detention on "Secret Evidence" and without being Charged MOHAMMAD MAHJOUB CLOSE TO DEATH AUTHORITIES REFUSE HOSPITALIZATION

On Day 75 of his hunger strike, Mohammad Mahjoub is very weak and in constant pain. After 5 years of detention on secret evidence and without being charged, he does not wish to end his hunger strike, saying that it is the only way left for him to fight for his dignity and that of his family.

Mahjoub has asked to be hospitalized and will accept an IV. There is an infirmary inside the Toronto West Detention Centre, but prison authorities are refusing to send him there. He is at imminent risk of permanent, severe impairment and, very possibly of death.

PLEASE ACT IMMEDIATELY TO SAVE MOHAMMAD MAHJOUB'S LIFE

1. Call and FAX Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty and Monte Kwinter, Minister of Correctional Services, to demand that Mahjoub be hospitalized, and that someone from the government meet with him, his family and his support committee to discuss his demands.

2. MONTREAL: Rally Monday, September 19, 11:45 am, at Paul Martin's office 400 d'Youville square (corner of McGill) metro Square Victoria. Keep up the pressure for Mahjoub's demands for contact visits with his children and proper medical care be met.

Premier Dalton McGuinty PHONE: [phone] FAX: [phone] email: [e-mail]

Monte Kwinter Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services Phone: [phone] Fax: [phone] Email: [e-mail] SAMPLE LETTER:

Premier Dalton McGuinty Queen's Park Toronto PHONE: [phone] FAX: [phone] email: [e-mail] (cc: [e-mail])

Re: 72-Day Hunger strike of Mohammad Mahjoub

Dear Mr. McGuinty

I am writing to urge you to take immediate action to save the life of Mohammad Mahjoub, who has been detained without trial in an Ontario prison for over five years and is now on Day 75 of a hunger strike (Sept. 19) to demand minimally decent conditions of detention. His main demands include proper medical treatment for hepatitis C (a prescribed liver biopsy has been denied), medical care for a knee injury, eyeglasses, and touch visits with his young children once a month.

Mr. Mahjoub is very weak and at imminent risk of death or severe, permanent impairment. He has asked to be hospitalized and will accept an IV. There is a hospital unit inside the Toronto West Detention Centre, but prison authorities are refusing to send him there, stating that they will not hospitalize a hunger striker unless he is in a coma. By that time, there is a major risk of irreversible damage.

Please intervene immediately to ask correctional authorities to hospitalize Mohammad Mahjoub without delay. In addition, please authorize a government representative to meet with Mr. Mahjoub's representatives, including his wife, Mona Elfouli (contact Matthew Behrens, at [phone] or [e-mail]) to reach a just and humane solution to this crisis.

A man's life is in your hands. So is Canada's international reputation with regard to human rights.

Sincerely,(name)(address)

CC Hon. Monte Kwinter Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services

[Megahurtz]

288. How can they arrest her?

What the hell would they charge her for???:shrug:

[Cult]

309. Heh, this thread sure bring out the plants.

There's a lot O' deleted posts on here. Thank you Cindy! That's a really powerful photo of her behind bars, with the Picture of Casey, R.I.P.


-E!

[demo dutch]

311. Good for her!!!! She'll get some media coverage now!

[Polethebear]

313. You guys have said everything there is to say....

I'll just say I hope she' Ok while she's in jail.

[Matariki]

316. what a manipulatively written article

first paragraph: "Cindy Sheehan, the California woman who has *used* her son’s death in Iraq to spur the anti-war movement"

used?

last paragraph - one of the "roughly 500"(!) pro-war protesters, Mitzy Kenny, gets the last idiotic word in: “I would like to say to Cindy Sheehan and her supporters, ‘Don’t be a group of unthinking lemmings.’ It’s not pretty,”.

[Teena]

317. Do you think...

that the MSM has figured out yet that this movement is important to the American people? They all seem to be dead from the neck up. Maybe it's that mind-control thingy that I've heard the Bushies have. Whatever it is, they have become increasingly unnecessary to me, that's for sure!

[Blaq Dem]

319. People heard being arrested LIVE on the Randi Rhodes Show

Madea called Randi Rhodes Show to tell what's going on at the White House. They too were eventually arrested. A cell phone was dropped and you could here people being arrested live on the radio.
http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/live/

"

More Protest Photos

[against all enemies]

321. Arresting a dead soldier's mother, I guess Freedom isn't free.

Bush should be so proud, if he were awake.

[janetle]

327. Wow! Your Post says it all powerfully!

[BiggJawn]

339. "Don’t be a group of unthinking lemmings."

“I would like to say to Cindy Sheehan and her supporters, ‘Don’t be a group of unthinking lemmings.’ It’s not pretty,” said Mitzy Kenny of Ridgeley, W.Va., whose husband died in Iraq last year. The antiwar demonstrations “can affect the war in a really negative way. It gives the enemy hope.”

Mitzy just described most Bush supporters who make less than $200,000 a year. "Lemmings".

I'm sorry for your loss, Mrs. Kenny, truly sorry.

I wish I could tell you that your husband died for nothing without it sounding harsh, but sometimes the truth IS harsh.

[trogdor]

409. He did not die for nothing.

Mitzy got a check for $250,000 plus death benefits.

[BiggJawn]

424. Oh.

I had an ex-wife like that. Used to tell her mom how I was worth more to her DEAD than alive...:eyes:

[Seansky]

340. This is just going to immortalize her in everyone's mind

[Voltaire99]

341. Hands off that American hero, fascist buttmunches!

One Cindy Sheehan is worth more than every one of those creeps on the other side of the White House fence.

And worth more than any fifty of our own useless politicians. How about Hillary Clinton getting off her damn pro-war ass to stop the bloodshed in Iraq?

[novak goes postal]

345. Well done Cindy. You are a true American Hero....!!!

[WhiteTara]

355. she was so beautiful

as they were shoving her in the van. It was so incredible witnessing the heroism of all those hundreds of people who were arrested for our beliefs.

[Matilda]

358. Cindy Sheehan - Bush's Nemesis

Dictionary definition:

Nemesis: (a) a source of harm or ruin;
(b) retributive justice in its execution or outcome;
(c) an opponent that cannot be beaten or overcome;
(d) one that inflicts retribution or vengeance

(Greek Mythology: Nemesis - The Goddess of tributive justice or
vengeance)

[Dunvegan]

375. Cindy = Nemesis...I think you truly...

...nailed it.

("Thank you," from one individual proud grass roots nemesis fighting the "power toolz" of injustice since 1969....)

[Independent_Liberal]

383. Go Cindy!

Keep the fight going!

:)

[Name removed]

384. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

387. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[w13rd0]

390. Do you have a problem with women?

One of those self-loathing types, eh?

What amazes me is you really do mean it when you say you "live on faith", because reality and facts don't seem to penetrate your thick skulls. Unfortunately, your faith is in false idols and you'll burn in hell for it.

[Dunvegan]

391. Okay, LabariDemocrati...enlighten me...

..."Cindy's Fellow Travellers."

I think I've totally missed the point of the post.

Could you elucidate?

Thank you.

[ladylibertee]

385. I cannot believe that.I hope she makes bail.

[Stockholm]

404. Best thing that could have happened!

* and his cabals keep making mistakes...

GO CINDY!

[Name removed]

416. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tripmann]

417. Really??

"If we stay, its they who will die; if we pull out it will be thay who bears the shame."

The shame has long since been allocated for this crime against humanity, and it will be carried for a LONG time.

There is no shame in walking away from an unjust war.

[Stockholm]

418. Welcome to DU

You might want to have a glander at this thread. I think you nailed 6 or 7 of the talking points.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4891467

[Solly Mack]

413. Better civil disobedience than cowering jellyfish

Yay, Cindy!!!!

Too many Americans are afraid to participate in civil disobedience - they think themselves law abiding - what they are is conditioned.

Sometimes, breaking the law is the only way...especially when those laws kill.

[saigon68]

419. TOO MANY POSTS HERE

[Name removed]

421. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[procopia]

422. media whore???

Cindy speaks the truth. How can there be harm in that?

[clintoncomeback]

426. I would not call her a "media whore" at all. But I do think that

people like her are the ones that make all of us look like we're lunatics. Esp. when her friends are trying to leap over the fence in front of the white house. That makes all of us anti-war protesters suspected crazies. I hate that, and I can no longer agree with Cindy Sheehan.

[Matilda]

430. Unfortunately, when fighting for rights, being polite doesn't always

get you very far.

From votes for women, through civil rights, to anti-war protests -
if you ask nicely and reasonably you will be ignored, as we have all
seen. It always takes somebody brave enough to go a bit over the
top to draw the attention of the public to what's going on.

The anti-war movement has needed someone like Cindy to focus
attention.

I have to question what two people with a few posts are really
about here.

[clintoncomeback]

437. I'm sure you do question me, I just joined this forum. To be honest

I didn't even know a place like this existed. If you read my profile you will see what I'm about. I am firmly in the middle. Democrat, but not "out there" I think there needs to be some balance if people are going to take us seriously. Esp. where I live.

[AZBlue]

440. to clintoncomeback - welcome to DU

I'm a newbie myself, so I kind of know how you feel. I made a similar comment: I think we need to think about what we may be losing vs. what we may be gaining by our actions and if the result is a net loss in support, is it really worth it? I got my ass chewed (pardon my language).

I've looked around and it seems most people on here are open to discussion and value opinions, even those that may be different from theirs. As for the others who are close-minded and want everyone to think the way they do...well, I've just chosen to ignore them for the most part.

[Why Syzygy]

450. how noble of you . nt

[Why Syzygy]

451. "Firmly in the middle", eh?

How quaint. Did your mother ever tell you what happens when you walk down the middle of the street? You get run over, darlin.

One side or the other.

I DID read your profile. You care so much about the "liberal" causes that you just go ahead and hide your true nature (if that's what it is)? "Career opportunities" and all? Might get lynched? Something like that?

Join the club.

[Bridget Burke]

442. When did you protest the war?

When did you ever agree with Cindy Sheehan?

[clintoncomeback]

453. I never did protest the war in person. I'm still in the military!

We aren't allowed to do things like that. We can't publicly speak our opinion either for or against our government. When you join the armed forces, from the Marines to the Coast guard, you willingly give up your rights to free speech(and a number of other things). We can disagree, if we keep our mouths shut.

[Why Syzygy]

454. hmmm... lots of enlists don't realize that

because it is not true.

have you seen ~
http://www.armytimes.com/

http://www.militarycity.com/

If you are in the military you are SWORN to uphold the Constitution and DEFEND our country from both foreign and domestic enemies.

Get with it. We have an enemy.

I, {insert name here}, do solemnly swear, or affirm, that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Military_Oath_of_Allegiance

[clintoncomeback]

457. Hey, thanks for telling me that

I almost forgot. I know what I am sworn to do. How does that pertain to what we were talking about? And what is it that you say is untrue? Believe me, anyone who has ever been in the armed forces knows that there are rules you do not break, lines you do not cross.

[Misunderestimator]

425. You've got a fucking lot of nerve. What utter bullshut you spew.

[Name removed]

438. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Misunderestimator]

439. So what if she doesn't speak for you?

Why attack her? And why use terms that the RW uses for liberals? As for getting arrested... so did a few hundred other people. What the hell is wrong with civil disobedience and making a statement against the war?

When the message can't even be heard, the messenger has to find ways to make it louder.

[tomg]

441. To all who posted: no matter where you stand on Cindy Sheehan's

arrest, if you go back to the op's original link and click on it today - Sept 28th - you will see something that will surely make you very joyous. Instead of Cindy getting popped, look who got indicted.
That just made my day, and the irony of the link is wonderful.

[AZBlue]

443. It is a BEAUTIFUL thing, isn't it?

:woohoo:

[tomg]

444. it's the best

and welcome to DU

[clintoncomeback]

452. That is actually really funny

I think we all knew that was coming! A little overdue, perhaps. Disgustingly, he will get bailed out......how do you say PARDON;(

[Why Syzygy]

455. Election fraud is "funny"?

I fail to see the humor. It is SAD!

What is happening here is called "JUSTICE". Which btw happens to be the foundation of our once great country and form of government.

"Funny". My ass. It ain't "funny". It is a SHAME!

[clintoncomeback]

458. I was actually referring to the ironic aspects of the whole situation

To me,irony is usually funny. Not funny strange, but funny "ha ha"