Rasmussen: 54% Say US Troop Withdrawal Will Make Things Worse in Iraq

[sabra]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2005/Perspectives%20on%20Iraq_September%2026.htm

54% Say US Troop Withdrawal Will Make Things Worse in Iraq

Most Americans (54%) believe that withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq will make things worse in that troubled nation. A Rasmussen Reports survey found that 20% disagree and say that troop withdrawal will make things better. These numbers are identical to the results of our August survey.

Republicans, by a 78% to 10% margin, say that withdrawing troops from Iraq would make things worse in that county. Democrats are evenly divided on the question, with 30% of Harry Reid's party saying the troop withdrawal would make things better and 33% taking the opposite view.

As for those not affiliated with either major party, 49% say withdrawing troops now would make the situation worse. Twenty percent (20%) of unaffiliateds say bringing U.S. troops home would improve the situation in Iraq.

A measure of the country's polarization concerning Iraq is that Republicans overwhelmingly view the U.S. troops as a liberating army. Democrats, by a 2-to-1 margin, see the U.S. forces as an occupying army. Unaffiliateds are evenly divided.

Survey of 2,000 Adults

September 22-25, 2005

If the United States withdraws all of its troops from Iraq, will that make things better or worse in Iraq?

Better 20%
Worse 54%
No Impact 14%

[ChowChowChow]

1. take off 15 to 20 points

This is a ReTHUGlican run polling outfit!

[cantstandbush]

41. Was Viet Nam worse after we left?

I don't think so.

[clintoncomeback]

42. Actually.........

Vietnam did get a lot worse after we left. Communist forces completely overran Saigon. It was a bloodbath.

[cantstandbush]

44. Are they worse off now? That's what I meant by after we left.

Of course there was a blood bath. But there is a blood bath going on in Iraq right now, only we are responsible for it. Was "shock and awe" any less than the communist forces in Saigon? Not to mention the number of innocent men, women and children we killed in Viet Nam and the number of our own soldiers that were killed. Just because we use a resource that another country has is not a justification for waging war based on a "strategic interest" to us. It may be more of a "
strategic interest" to us to come up with an alternative fuel. I would rather put 200 billion in that basket than the war basket.

[clintoncomeback]

46. Well, now they kind of live in abject poverty.

Hopefully that is not the outcome in Iraq. I wholeheartedly agree with the alternative fuels comment. That is an issue that should be a much stronger strategic interest to us.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[clintoncomeback]

56. What in the world does that mean? Could someone please tell me

what "freep" means.

[mccoyn]

63. Perhaps no one told you how we do things?

freep is short for freeper, the nickname people on this board have for people on a right wing board called free republic. Its meant to be an insult, suggesting that your low post count is because you can from that site to disagree with people on this site. Its well known that only people with 1000+ posts are capable of independent thought and anyone else who breaks the line is an enemy in disguise.

Welcome! :toast: Do try to be less cynical than me. There are some great people here, but others ruin it with baseless close minded insults.

[Bark Bark Bark]

64. "Freep"

As a noun, it means a member of FreeRepublic.com. See also freeper; freeptard; freepazoid; inbred redneck idiot.

As a verb ("freep this poll") it means to focus one's partisan brethren in order to influence the outcome of a vote or poll. Adopted by all parties.

Welcome!

EDIT:

*looks more closely, sees accusation*

McCoyn is correct; that's why I don't visit these boards very often anymore. Elitist dicks will attack anyone who deviates from the groupthink at the drop of a hat; newbies and anyone with less than 1000 posts are considered fair game, although anyone can quickly post over 1000 chunks of pure crap--as evidenced by those very same elitist dicks.

[clintoncomeback]

84. Thank you two for your responses! I was really starting to think that

everyone here was not too nice! Ha ha ha....No, definitely not a "Freeper". But I do have 2 dogs AND a pickup truck........but I live in the city...so I CAN'T be a redneck!:-)

[Roland99]

71. That's a complete lie. Unless you're just ignorant

Cambodia is where the bloodbath was.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/whos/whos-pol_pot.html

[clintoncomeback]

83. LOL!!! Are you saying that Viet Nam was not a bloodbath?

And I'm the ignorant one? HEY EVERYONE---Here's someone who thinks people only died in Cambodia!!!!---I would not have responded this way if you hadn't been so quick to call me ignorant, or a liar. Let's be friends now.............

[Roland99]

88. You obviously don't know your history very well.

You're the one that said Vietnam post-pullout was a bloodbath. Or, perhaps, you define bloodbath a bit more liberally.

[Goldeneye]

67. This point Is one that should be hammered home.

Domino Theory and Pre-emption are two dust bin whack-nut ideas that the Right used to start wars. Vietnam has forgiven the U.S. but we as Americans should never forgive or forget who benefits from wars and what lies are used to support them.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. and?

Do those who think it will 'make things worse' think that we should stay or leave?

What? They forgot to ask that question, didn't they?

[buff2]

7. That's a good point

Phuck these repukelican skewed polls. If all these people are FOR keeping the troops in,then why is it the FReeptards only had about a 100 people in their little pro-war/antiCindy rally? No,they can't ask the REAL questions,never a choice except yea or nea. It's pure bullshit.

[0007]

18. 100 is streching it! I counted 54 freepers, and they were all on

d0pe.

[buff2]

20. and supporting a dope

:thumbsup:

[Inland]

13. Yes, I myself wondered how many CARED how much worse it got.

That's the qeustion: not that it will get worse, but if we care, and if we care enough to try to make a better result, and the chances that THIS crew can make a better result in the long run no matter how hard we try.

I put the chances at this crew making Iraq good at zero, therefore I say pull out.

[enlightenment]

3. It is entirely possible to believe that the US is an

occupying force and still believe that withdrawing all US troops will make things worse in Iraq. One only needs to look at other "exercises" in imperialism (think of all the African states that began as colonies) to see that total and abrupt withdrawal is socially, politically, and economically devastating to the oppressed region.
I'm not sure what to do -- I'm not that smart -- but I also believe that total, rapid withdrawal is the wrong thing to do FOR IRAQ. We created this mess; we need to figure out the right way to fix it.

[txaslftist]

12. We've only been there for 3 years, though...

...I don't think that comparisons to colonialism are apt. Any time you take out the autocratic head of a rigid, totalitarian system, you are going to have a rough patch of adjustment.

Your position assumes that the US is a stabilizing force in Iraq, and I don't think that is necessarily true. The Kurds, for example, have essentially run their own, semi-autonomous region in the north of the country ever since Gulf War I. Barring Turkish intervention that third of Iraq is probably going to continue to be stable.

The Sunni and Shia regions in the south will probably experience some "adjustment", and there may be civil war. The relevant question is whether our forces there are an instigation to violence or a check on violence. I think strong arguments can be made either way.

A more relevant question might be, what stake do we have in Iraq's affairs that justifies the sacrifice of more Americans? I don't buy "we broke it, we own it". That rationale assumes (1)that the Iraqis are incapable of self-governance, incapable of self-policing and incapable of establishing their own security; and (2) that we, the enlightened, more educated, more efficient and better governed Americans are better qualified to do that. I don't think either of these assumptions can be taken as proved or even likely.

Furthermore, immediate withdrawal from Iraq is not a question of what is good for Iraq. It is a question of what is good for us.

[buff2]

14. Have you ever given a thought as to what is good for OUR country??

Why do we always have to worry about other countries when our own is so screwed up? The troops can stay over there for decades to come and it will never be any better. You can't invade someone else's country and expect to change it from the way it has been for thousands of years to the traditions and beliefs of THIS country.The billions being spent over there could be put to better use HERE...taking care of the hungry and the homeless,universal health care...the list goes on and on. I am sick of our tax dollars lining the pockets of Halliburton and all the rest of the big corporate buddies of bu$h and Cheney.

[leesa]

17. We CAN'T fix it. We can only leave and pay reparations

WE are the problem. WE are the bad guy in this one, without a doubt. Get out NOW.

[K-W]

26. We cant fix it, we are just breaking it more.

That is why the colonial withdrawls were so devestating, because the occupations were so long. The longer we occupy it, the worse things will be when we leave.

We cant just sit around destroying Iraq waiting for our military to turn into some magical nation building force.

[okieinpain]

37. I agree with you 100 percent.

[buff2]

4. It's really funny how these polls jump up and down so quick

There is NO WAY the majority of the American people can be AGAINST keeping the troops in Iraq,and then the next week be FOR it. What a crock of repukelican feces. :puke:

[geebensis]

5. Might make it worse for the Iraqis...

But I'm pretty sure withdrawing our troops will make it better for our troops.

[okieinpain]

38. sorry, but some of their blind support of bush has put them in this

spot. if more of them would pull their head out of their asses, and stop with the macho, gun will travel bullshit. bush would have a harder time pushing war to the sheeple.

[saigon68]

6. These idiots should volunteer to get their asses blown up.

But then, "LIKE CHENEY" most of them have better things to do.

[rodeodance]

9. The WH official line -and the press keeps repeating it-it that things will

get worse. Repetition has worked for them all along.

[saigon68]

19. GOOD POINT

A lie repeated long enough, becomes the TRUTH, in the minds of many brain dead "SHEEP"

[Amonester]

21. ** said ("someone" told him...) it's called:

TO CATAPULT THE PROPAGANDA

ummm, me wonder who told him that... NOT!!

[okieinpain]

39. yes, some of them are brain dead. but we just can't go pull out

if you were a babysitter and the kids started acting up. would you just get up and go home leaveing the kids to take care of themselves.

[reprobate]

50. They aren't children, and we aren't babysitters. We are criminals who....

...invaded a sofereign nation against the will of the people of the United States. Using language like that just obfuscates the situation. The choices are, stay there until the government of Iraq becomes fully Shiite like the Iran government, and is controlled by Iran. At that point we will either leave immediately or face a several million man Iranian army with another two million in reserve. Just how long do you think our 100,000 man army there would last. Remember, Iran is not an unarmed insurgency. It is an army with modern weapons that would make our troops mincemeat.

The second choice is of course to pull out before that happens. It would not change anything in Iraq, except perhaps to lower our KIA count.

I don't understand those who claim we have a responsibility to "fix" Iraq. Haven't we done those poor people enough harm by now?

[Cha]

73. Thank you! I think they polled

the Iraqis and they want us out. But, course, what they want doesn't count..only what the murdering bush crime family wants. For Now.

[ModerateDem05]

77. Actually, the war was supported by a majority of Americans

at the time of the invasion. And I think that most Iraqis supported the war immediately after Saddam was removed. Obviously, things have gone downhill since and we are caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

[okieinpain]

94. well iran is pretty well armed, but they would not make mincemeat

of our troops, we would win but it would not be another iraq. and on the second part well yes they are children, and yes we are babysitters, and no we can not just packup and leave. we have a responsiblity to iraq, and the world to complete what "WE" started. sorry but "WE" elected bush whether you voted for him or not and "WE" now have to pay for his sins.

The american troops will have to maintain some type of presence in iraq for years to come. I don't think they have to be there in the numbers they are now, but we will have to beg and pay to get others to help make up the numbers that we remove.

Sorry, but that is the down side of living in a democracy, when the other side screws up "WE" all pay in one way or the other.

:~)

[opihimoimoi]

8. The Guilt Factor...we are consumed w guilt and don't even know it...

So what do we do?? Stay the course till we Tire of the deaths/costs, or, Success in our mission?

And what if staying is making it Worse for the USA, and for the entire World?

Its a Mess/Quandry/Quagmire/Cluster F**K/etc for us as we pay the price....sometimes...the ultimate.

We should be looking for other options to garner success there...we are not looking hard enough.

[rodeodance]

10. I think many do have some genuine guilt--they know that we were lied

to -going in--yet there is something-some faith that says now that we are there we CAN make it better. I hear this from so so many people.

[opihimoimoi]

11. including Bill Maher... I agree...

[confludemocrat]

32. Agree but would add this is arrogance to the nth degree to think we could

now make it better. So we are like a wife abuser who after a particularly bad beating of the wife, and later with remorse breaks down and pleads, saying it will be different now, I will do better, but please don't divorce me, I promise, I'll do better now.

[leesa]

15. We just can't admit that the Iraqis are fighting us, can we?

[confludemocrat]

33. No, that's "radical", as truth is usually termed before most wake up n/t

[0007]

16. Fuck Rasmussen and his goddamn phoney poll numbers.

How come all the other polls say just the opposite?

[Amonester]

22. See my post (reply #21) above. - eom

[The_Casual_Observer]

23. Rasmussen predicted a big win for Kerry.

Rasmussen seems to be an outlet for disinformation.

[Amonester]

24. They were Right on that one... ummm, yeah, accidently... - eom

[Renew Deal]

25. It's a lose-lose situation

You stay and you're screwed, you leave and you're screwed.

[PATRICK]

27. When will someone blast these poor questions?

They aren't just loaded anymore, but dumb diversions. Any rational person knows the powerkeg created by us we would be leaving behind. THAT joined to the Bushnuts gives the poll an easy predictable "win". Many other popular opinion polls dealing with complex issues are similarly slanted and rigged, on purpose or not, to blunt and redirect opinions into unnatural molds suited to the ruling party's advantage. This bare poll question leaves the national forum iat the beginning stage of a losing argument because there is no response other than what hash the experts desire to make of it.

For example: "Do you think national health care would be terribly expensive?" Same structure, same argumentative no man's land where the establishment walks away with the reasonable concession.

Not so clearly the frame is the American people versus the entire policy establishment- which includes media and media pollsters, and it is filtered, reduced, mixed and boxed to be handled diffidently by people actually wielding the power of communication networks and political institutions.

Worse, the sound bite take the most egregious or odd titillating "result" even outside the poll context, one of the top ten abuses of polls. Polls, like focus groups are poor and treacherous substitutes for knowing the national mood or the feelings and thoughts of the people. Common sense, the common touch and the common cause are utterly absent in this divide. the poll is a commodity product and so the people polled become the same, their soul and minds lost as irrelevant, or a surprise when their will bursts through into the streets.

I suppose there are many candidates for the top ten dealing with poor questions, poor methods, poor sampling, push polling, cherry picking polls, ignoring results not matching "desired" results" or "recalibrating", substituting ephemeral truncated polls for national forums and voting(one vibrant the other effective).And especially the too easy use of the unreflective, unchallenged word "scientific".

[Stuckinthebush]

28. Let's do a crosstab, shall we?

How many of those that say it will become worse still say we need to get the hell out?

I'm going to say at least 10%

Many acknowledge that the country will spiral into chaos once the troops leave, but know that there is not a damn thing we can do by staying there.

[DuaneBidoux]

29. taking them out will make it worse--so will leaving them there. Shrub

should have thought about that before getting us in the mess.

[Mari333]

30. Time to send all those republican kids, then

anyone who continues to want the troops over there should be willing to send their own fodder..er..kids..

[Azathoth]

31. I can't understand how anyone would think things would get BETTER

I want to see our troops brought home as soon as possible just as much as the next guy, but come on. Bringing the troops home immediately will save American lives, not Iraqi lives. We're watching the beginnings of outright civil war in Iraq right now. The insurgents aren't even attacking us anymore; they're attacking other Iraqis. Things aren't going to get better over there any time soon, whether our troops are there or not.

[lebkuchen]

34. Especially when one considers we're torturing the people we're supposed

to be "saving."

How macabre is that?

[clintoncomeback]

43. Not that I agree with torture in any way shape or form, but the

Iraqis that were tortured were not the ones we were "fighting for". They were violent criminals being held there for previous offenses, like rape and homocide. That in itself, is somewhat macabre!

[lebkuchen]

54. How do you know?

And what about the Iraqi civilians Americans dropped bombs on...remember, when we bombed the most populated city in Iraq? Were those violent criminals, too?

Refresh my memory: what did Iraq ever do to the US?

[clintoncomeback]

58. I actually DO know. I spent 15 months in Iraq. And I was not over there

as a civilian. U.S. Army, Bco 501stSIG. 101st Airborne Div. I have many Iraqi friends over there that I still keep in touch with. Abu Gharaib was a horrible place, horrible things were done to the prisoners there by wannabe idiot soldiers.(Trust me, we hate them because they made all of us look bad) But don't kid yourself about the types of prisoners that were housed there. The Iraqis I spoke to were scared to death of them, and one even said he "wished the U.S. would just execute all of them!"

[lebkuchen]

60. Well, we are executing them, aren't we? Even without a trial?

[Zhade]

62. Our new "friend" is mistaken.

I also find it unlikely he spent any time at all in Iraq, if he doesn't even know the fact that our own military concluded most prisoners were innocent.

Smells like just another chickenhawk to me.

[ModerateDem05]

68. I find his statements perfectly believable. T

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ModerateDem05]

76. Being in the military doesn't automatically give you knowledge

of all military actions. Someone's got to defend him from unfounded attacks.

[Zhade]

78. He's wrong on the prisoner situation. That's not an unfounded attack.

And surely he can READ, right? So he should be aware of what his alleged military is doing and saying.

[clintoncomeback]

85. Okay guys/gals. I told you my unit designation. That "sig" part

after 501st. means SIGNAL. We established a huge communications grid over the entire northern region of Iraq. Signal soldiers do not work as prison guards. We are not even privy to info on why folks are there. I did go on different convoys to re-suppy people at the prison, and talked with soldiers stationed there. Also, like I said before-Most of what I heard about Abu Gharaib came straight from the mouths of Iraqi citizens. You don't have to believe me, but I really was there. Ask me anything! There is a reason I'm here on this board, and it isn't because everything was rosy over in Iraq.-------

[Zhade]

89. Well...okay. I'll bite.

I take back my snarky remarks.

I hope you do realize the truth about the prisoners now, though.

Peace.

[clintoncomeback]

86. spot-on. Half the time I didn't even know what the rest of MY OWN UNIT was

[Zhade]

61. Not so - it's estimated that 70%+ were NOT criminals...

...but people rounded up when they couldn't find who they were looking for.

In fact:

GENEVA - Intelligence officers of the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq estimated that 70 percent to 90 percent of Iraqi detainees were arrested by mistake, the Red Cross said in a report that was disclosed Monday, and Red Cross observers witnessed U.S. officers mistreating Abu Ghraib prisoners by keeping them naked in total darkness in empty cells.

So sorry, but you're flat-out wrong.

[ModerateDem05]

69. Doesn't mean there weren't a ton of nasty folks in the prisons

Just because a lot were wrongly arrested, some were pretty clearly bad people. Surely you aren't suggesting that former Saddam henchmen are nice guys?

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ModerateDem05]

75. Wow!

That's not very nice! I didn't say it was ok to lock up innocent to get the guilty. I said that some of those locked up were pretty clearly bad folks and that a lot of Iraqis were probably glad to see them behind bars.

[Zhade]

79. Okay, you're right, I misread you.

I apologize for that portion of my statement.

Your strawman is STILL bullshit, though.

[ModerateDem05]

80. You are correct on the straw man thingy

[Zhade]

81. Wow, you owned up to it.

I have to say, my respect for you just went up.

Truce?

[ModerateDem05]

82. Works for me

[librechik]

51. so why leave the gas can near the fire?

let's get em out to help us here. At least someone will get helped. Cuz we aren't helping there.

[AllegroRondo]

35. Worse for who?

Certainly not worse for the kids who get to come home alive and in one piece.

[lakeguy]

36. 54% should get over there and help then!

i'm tired of all these people saying that we can't leave yet recruiting is down.

if you don't want to withdraw them, at least give them a breather. 3, 4, 5 tours of duty. what are your odds of being killed or maimed for bush's lies at that point?

[RaulGroom]

40. This is a false dilemma

Since the folks who want to keep troops in Iraq indefinitely realize that their position is becoming unpopular, they are starting to try to create the idea that there are two options in Iraq - stay the course, and RUN! RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN!

If you present people with additional options, such as withdrawing most US troops but keeping a force (mostly armor and air power) there that could prevent actual set-piece civil war from breaking out, you might see a very different picture of popular opinion.

[CAcyclist]

45. What do the Iraqis want?

Except for the Kurds, they mostly want us to leave. I say we get out and pay up for reparations. But that would mean giving up any hope of installing a puppet government and controlling the oil.

I'm beginning to wonder if people who say they are against the war but want us to "stay the course" really just are as obsessed with the oil as the Bush admin is.

[cassiepriam]

47. Repugs are brilliant at coming up with no win situations.....

[PurityOfEssence]

48. 85% say there's a god; so fucking what?

Personally, I think the rabble is right on this one; were we to leave right now, it'd be a nightmare. The repeated point I like to make is that popular opinion is important for elections and the broad sweep of assumption, but it's not fact.

[1932]

49. According to CounterSpin (from FAIR, on iTunes), about 80% of Iraqis

want the US out. That was in last Thursday's show.

Just one more stat to keep in mind.

[Catchawave]

53. Does Rasmussen realize that this part of the world

was killing each other for the past 2500 years, and will continue to do so for the next 2500 years, with or without our help?

It's a culture this administration just doesn't "get", ya think?

[struggle4progress]

55. Then why are the Iraqis asking us for a timetable to withdraw? eom

[iamjoy]

57. We Have A Wolf By The Ears

is one way of looking at it.

[indepat]

59. What would it take to make things right in Iraq?

[pelagius]

65. This poll does not in any way indicate support for leaving troops in Iraq

It simply asks people their opinion on whether or not withdrawal of US troops would make things "better or worse" in Iraq.

A question in a similar vein might be "Do you believe better public transportation would be good for your community?" A majority would probably answer "yes". But that doesn't translate into "Yes, and I will hop on that bus/train/hovercraft/whatever and leave my car behind."

[Peace Patriot]

66. Was a good withdrawal solution put to those being polled? Say,

a U.N. protectorate with a peace gathering of all the nations in the region?

The American public has been given so little information about possible withdrawal scenarios, and such incredible DISinformation about the invasion and the occupation--and about PNAC and everything else--that of course they would likely say that a precipitous withdrawal would makes things "worse."

What crap this poll is!

[raysr]

74. There WILL be a civil war

in Iraq whether we're there or not. I think everyone knows that. I think our presence is making things worse. The "insurgent freedom fighters" are trying to run US OUT! So if we pull out in some kind of planned out way the Iraqis are fully capable of taking care of themselves.
This poll is about the concept of "Winning" and nothing more. We didn't "win" in 'Nam and we won't "win" in Iraq.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

87. I don't doubt that...

...in the immediate wake of our withdrawal that things could destabilize further (become even bloodier with many more deaths) before some kind of stability is reached. I think the facts arguing for our pullout considerably outweigh this potentiality, and they are these:

1) We were not asked to go in to begin with.

2) Our invasion was illegal.

3) Our continued presence there is illegal.

4) We've killed many civilians, lost 2000 of our own and have
NOTHING positive to show for it. Iraq is much worse off than it
was before the invasion---we've decimated much of their infrastructure.

5) Our staying offers no hope for a solution---only more determined and perhaps effective insurgent attacks.

6) Iraqi's couldn't possibly have been more clear over the past
3 1/2 years in expressing their desire for us to leave.

But we're not leaving because we aren't there for the Iraqi citizens, never were, we're there for their oil.

[enki23]

90. well, of course. it will hasten the inevitable.

also equally easy to predict is that it would serve, at least in some measure, to make things better here, in the long view as well as the nearer.

[Strawman]

91. that's not a high number considering

1) that from day one the President and his people have peddled their unrealistic ideas about America's ability to unilaterally change things in Iraq (and everywhere) more or less by fiat and for the most part the media has accepted this as a legitimate view.

2) Democrats, especially high profile Senate Democrats have been too timid and too afraid of challenging the President's feel good, can do story of American power and influence. If anything, the story has been we can do it better, send more troops, manage the war differently. In other words, a different brand of bullshit. The American people have suffered an all out bullshit assault on the issue of this war from all sides. It's not surprising that this number is at 54%. Once elite opinion begins to shift and the argument for pullout is seen as a more "legitimate" option, this number will change quickly because deep down most Americans just want to get the fuck out of there.

[IndianaGreen]

92. Most Americans opposed withdrawing from Vietnam

The only thing that ignorant stubbornness accomplished was to put more names on the panels of the Vietnam War Memorial. This country has learned nothing from Vietnam and is eager to repeat the same mistakes in Iraq. What do people think? Do they think that Jesus is going to come down from the clouds and make everything okay?

[stickdog]

93. That is a question better put to Iraqis. The question at hand is if

the citizens of the USA would be better off if we withdraw our troops from Iraq.

[fshrink]

95. That was the idea. I call it "addiction model politics"

Thanks to the bunch of dangerous gang known as "PNAC".