Young women lead the way in tearing down sex taboos: new US survey

[bemildred]

All phasers on stun, Mr. Scott, warp factor seven.
This has to drive the fundies bonkers.

LOS ANGELES (AFP) - Young women are leading the way in tearing down sexual taboos in North America, where teenagers are having more sex at a younger age than their parents and grandparents, a new survey showed.
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Freewheeling young women in the United States and Canada first have intercourse at the age of 15, partake more in oral sex than previous generations and are far less prudish, according to a landmark new report by researchers at California's San Diego State University.

---

"Oral sex has become so popular. In previous generations, oral sex was considered disgusting. Now young people see it as another way of being sexual," Twenge said.

"It's also part of the general trend of sexual behavior moving away from marriage and reproduction and toward pleasure."

YAHOO

[Barrett808]

1. I don't know -- seems like a welcome development to me

As long as they're playing safe. If not, well, it could be really bad.

[Triana]

3. It does contribute to the spread of some STDs...

...just like regular sex does.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

77. 15 yr old girls walking around with painful SORES on their faces- also HIV

Victory for our side!!!!


???

WTF?

[DFWdem]

18. Why is this a welcome development?

Unless you're a teenage boy, it appears to be a rather unwelcome development.

"...teenagers are having more sex at a younger age than their parents and grandparents..."

"...Freewheeling young women in the United States and Canada first have intercourse at the age of 15..."

Again, if you're a 15 year old boy I imagine this is great news. But if you're someone who doesn't want to see a rise in teenage pregnancy or STDs this is bad news.

[northzax]

25. on the other hand

the teenage pregnancy rate has been dropping for a while. Girls who are comfortable having sex are more likely, I would think, to have protection and insist on it, that girls who are talked into it by boys.

[Centered]

172. actually I believe

the pregnancy rate is going down because I had heard of the increase in anal sex and oral to completeion.

But I am not an educator and I don't really know if this is accurate.

[Lindacooks]

35. Thank you!!

I just don't understand why people thinking it's a good idea for teens to have sex. Most aren't ready for it emotionally, and in the age of AIDS and other STDs, it's NOT a good thing to be 'freewheeling'.

[NashVegas]

"Not Ready for It, Emotionally"

The younger you are, the less baggage you bring to the table. JMHO.

[prayin4rain]

53. Gross.

The younger you are?????????????:puke:

[Lindacooks]

71. That's insane. There are reasons why statutory rape laws are in place.

I'd bet that you're a guy, which explains a lot. Also, if you think it's okay for 12, 13, and 14 year olds to have sex, that is sick.

[NashVegas]

104. You Bet Wrong

Do I think it's okay? Hmmm, hard. As long as you've got a situation where there's no noteworthy age differential, no one is controlling anyone, no one is manipulating anyone, no one is engaging in emotional blackmail or bribery, and everyone is generally respecting the boundaries of those they are engaging with, I'm not getting my nose out of joint over it.

[ray of light]

129. Crisco, I'm sorry to disagree with you but it's not ok. (more below)

Here's why:

Teenagers do not have the intellectual and logical balance and hormonal balance that adults do. They have intellegence...don't get me wrong, but they do not have the impulse control that is developed as you age. Therefore the decisions made at that age are a cross between an 8 year olds and a 15 year olds.

One example of this is the rising "cutting" behavior that is going on in the teen world. (I'm assuming you know that cutting is the impulsive decision to "cut" oneself when anxious, depressed, or seeking attention.)

Another reason why it's not so good is of course the spread of diseaces that kids really don't understand are longterm and life threatening. They are busy "revolting" and showing the world how smart they are and trying to gain independence. Instead of doing what they hope to do, their actions often have the opposite effect.

Next, the girls (particularly) often set themselves up, unwittingly perhaps, for being raped. This is another consequence of rampant over-sexuality out there. Not only that, but given the widespread adoration of violence in the media and in movies, young 5-6 year old boys are raping girls as young as 3-4. (Don't tell me it doesn't happen because I know a specific little three year old who was raped by a six year old. I also know a nine year old who was raped by a 12 year old-repeatedly!)

Maybe 15 is too young for the sexual revolution to hit. And this very 'sexual revolution' is the same outrageous behavior that feeds into the right-winged, religious view points that all liberals are promiscuous and will lead to the end-like the city of Rome and like the biblical story of Sodom and Gomorrah's destruction by fire and brimstone.

Thanks for reading my whole thing and I certainly hope you don't consider this as "flaming you" since it wasn't my intent.

[NashVegas]

132. Sexual Play vs Sexual Violence

The points you raise on that subject are a far cry from what I explicitly laid out above. A 6 year old raping a 3 year old is an obvious case where the 6 year old either has no sense of boundaries, has not yet developed a conscience, or has been subject to an atmosphere where boundary violation is acceptable. The idea that a 6 year old would have the mechanical knowledge necessary to commit a rape tells me there was something very, very funky going on in his own situation. Any case of rape is a violation of boundaries.

[Lilith Velkor]

119. Those laws don't apply to consenting children.

There's a reason for that, too.

[Lindacooks]

124. Those laws absolutely DO apply to even to consenting children.

Where on earth did you hear that?

http://www.loveandlearn.com/questions5/statrape/default.htm

Statutory rape is where the government has passed laws (statutes) saying that in certain situations, even if both people consent to sex, it is still against the law.

"It doesn't matter if:

...in some locations, anyone presses charges. If someone over the age of consent has sex with someone under the age of consent, even if no one but the arresting officer presses charges, the older person can go to jail.


...a girl or boy, who is under the age of consent, says "yes" or even initiates sex with a man or woman, who is over the age of consent; the law says it's statutory rape because that younger person has NO LEGAL RIGHT TO GIVE CONSENT.


...the younger person lies about his or her age before having sex. It is the older person's responsibility to make sure that their actions are legal."

[Lilith Velkor]

126. Those laws apply only to adults.

I have never heard of any law concerning sexual interactions between minors less than four years apart in age. That is what I meant by, "consenting children." In some states, the four-year rule also applies to partners straddling the age of consent.

[Lindacooks]

140. WRONG!!

If both people are under the AOC is it OK for them to have sex?

No! You can not consent to have sex if you are under the AOC regardless of the age of your partner. Conversely, if you have sex with somebody who is under the AOC you are committing statutory rape. If two people under the AOC decide to have sex, they are actually breaking two laws; the one limiting their ability to consent AND the one limiting the age at which their partner can consent. If you and your partner have not yet reached the AOC, neither one of you can consent to sex under the law.

If one or both of my parents say it is OK for me to have sex, do I still have to obey the AOC?

Yes, the AOC can not be over ruled by your parents. Even if your parents give you their OK and buy you your birth control, you still must abide by the AOC. While your parents may not have a problem with your being sexually active before you have reached the AOC, they still do not have the ability to put aside the law. Parents can not give you the right to vote early, they can not give you your driver's license early, they can not let you drink alcohol at your discretion early, and they can not remove the legal barrier of the AOC.

I heard that there is some sort of "three year rule" in regards to the AOC. Is this true, and if so, how does it work?

Yes, in some, but not all regions, there is a "three year rule" in effect. Contrary to popular belief, this "three year rule" does not mean that a person can legally have sex with somebody who is 3 years older or younger than they are. It does not mean that if you are not yet at the age of consent you can still have sex with somebody so long as they are not more than 3 years older than you are... this is NOT what it means. Where it exists, the "three year rule" applies only to people who have reached the AOC, but who have not yet reached the age of majority (the age at which you become an adult who is legally able to enter into binding contracts).

http://teenadvice.about.com/library/weekly/aa090701b.htm#q5

[Lilith Velkor]

145. OK, so the link you provided in #124 was wrong, then.

Thank you for correcting yourself. Since you seem to have both sides of this argument covered, I'll leave you to it. I maintain, however, that even if it's illegal for two fourteen-year-olds to go down on each other, you cannot prove the charge without committing a sex crime against both children.

[Name removed]

153. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[readmoreoften]

155. So would both go to jail for statutorally raping one another?

Four year age separation, far as I know. If two 13 year olds have sex, I don't think the state gets involved unless one is assaulting the other.

[Lindacooks]

161. They wouldn't necessarily go to jail, but they might be charged

and there would definitely be a file opened on them in the social worker's offices. This could be enough to tip the balance on any other laws they broke.

And yes, the state will get involved if children are having sex.

[Lilith Velkor]

167. Yeah, and they can get raped in juvie

Or get put in foster homes with pedophiles. Over a fucking blowjob. That's pretty goddamn evil, eh? I don't know how often it happens, though. I've known of a half dozen cases (just me personally) where a girl's parents tried to have her bf arrested and the cops couldn't do anything because of the problem with proving such charges. Ah well, soon enough we'll have Fundie Taliban Morality Police to make sure all the children are pure and chaste....

[loyalsister]

169. question?

How is it that a child who cannot legally give consent is held responsible for the lack of consent of the other child?

Isn't this kind of like saying that the legally insane person was obligated to stop his partner in crime despite having been ruled unable to understand that what was happening was wrong?

[uniden]

190. we need more "criminals"

as long as no one is forced to have sex, let it be. Now if you want to be "popular" or well liked and feel that having sex is the way to achieve that, how is that anybody's fault? Do we need to have a psychological analysis of our partners before we have sex?

[nemo137]

74. and the more baggage you bring to later relationships.

so meh, what about it?

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

49. Not ready for it emotionally

But wouldn't the so-called heavy emotional investment in sex be linked to the tendency to see sex as much heavier than it is? And doesn't the notion of "free-wheeling" young women indicate that the very structure of sex in our society is changing, and thus all the emotional weight lent to it by previous generations (for a few generations at most, really, if you look at the history of sexuality). That is to say, the very emotional resonance you attribute to sex is a symptom of the old way that sex was organized in society. If sex is being reorganized (from below, hardy har), then it would develop different emotional resonances. You can't argue "not ready emotionally" in that case, since the emotional valence is completely different than the one you're used to. Unless your so ignorant of basic anthropology to believe that the emotions attaching to sex are universal - the same in all times and places!?! I hope you wouldn't be making that lame and easily debunkable argument?

[phusion]

69. Well said!

I agree completely.

[Lindacooks]

72. First of all, it's spelled 'YOU'RE', not 'your'.

And with two college degrees, no, I am NOT ignorant of basic anthropology.

Sex is a big deal, especially for females. There are powerful hormones (vasopressin and oxytocin) released during sex that can actually affect the chemistry of the brain. Most young teenagers are not emotionally developed enough to be able to handle that.

[alcibiades_mystery]

123. So you are claiming universality of emotional response

Though masking it in dubious biological shenanigans (as if hormones directly determine identical emotions!) and psychological evaluations that are built on our current organization of sexuality! In other words, ignoring everything anthropology has taught us about the social organization of sexuality.

The psychological stuff posted below is utterly irrelevant. It is nothing but a measure of how humans respond within our current sexual organization. So, for instance, thirteen year old girls who are molested by some uncle-figure have very real trauma, but similar trauma would be unlikley in former regimes of sexuality in which getting married off to some uncle-figure was the norm. Psychology is well aware that trauma and other emotional responses are socially invested - they are determined in large part by the specific social conventions. Boys of the Sambia tribe of New Guinea are initiated into masculinity, for example, by drinking the semen of various male relatives. No anthropologists studying the Sambia have noted any psychological difficulty among these boys, but could you imagine the real trauma that would affect a Western boy who had to do the same? Transposing psychological responses from one regime of sexuality (our current regime) on to others is ridiculous, in other words. Since my argument is that the sexual regime may be in a process of transformation, the psychological evidence related to our current regime of sexuality is pointless. Are all those things true of the current regime? Yes. Of course they are. Does that mean they are true of an emerging sexual regime. No. The psychologists would have to gear up a whole new set of empirical studies to understand how the new social regime affects people. Studies from the old regime would be comparative pointers at best.

ON EDIT: I almost forgot, since I'm trying to be serious here. But "your" and "you're." Are you kidding me? You'RE attacking the spelling in a 60 second internet post? Puh-leez. Pretty pathetic.

[bettyellen]

164. well, you run in different circles than some of us....

and i handled it damned well, thank you.

[Darth_Kitten]

80. oh, come on....

if 15 year old girls are really so emotionally dead that they could put any guy's penis in their throats and think nothing of it, then I will worry about what kind of messages we are teaching our young.

This is not some sexual revolution, just some cloying, emotionally immature girls who want to be popular with some horny, emotionally immature guys who will probably dump them after they get want they want.

[raccoon]

106. You said that right, Darth_Kitten,

especially your second paragraph.

I don't see this as anything positive.

One thing about articles like this, they make me glad I'm not in high school.

Any of those who think this is so great, would you feel this way if it were your daughter?

It's always galled me the way many men think women are just there to be used for their sexual pleasure, but if some other man did the same thing with their sister, or worse...their daughter, they would feel very differently about it.

[JerseygirlCT]

195. Yes, and from what I've read

the oral sex is mainly one-way. That is to say, girls are giving blow-jobs, but boys are not reciprocating.

I'm firmly in the "not emotionally ready" camp. I'm fortunate my teenaged son recognizes that's where he is, as well.

I don't like the idea of sex being divorced from emotional connection. I don't wish to instill that idea in my children. And while a certain amount of comfort with discussing sex is a very good thing (we're definitely talking to our teenagers far more these days), I disagree that what we're seeing is a new freedom that should be celebrated. It's a continuation of a trend in our society to push our children to grow faster than they need to grow.

[funflower]

99. Let me guess.... You're a, um, male, right?

:eyes:

[Lilith Velkor]

111. Yeah, only a male would mention anthropology...

...as if it had anything to do with the discussion. :eyes:

[Andromeda]

127. This is fine---IF you live in the jungles of Peru.

Sexual moors do vary with culture but even though some people call N.Y. a jungle, the only kind of animal girls are in danger from are the less hairy kind that walk on two legs.

Nothing much has really changed. Men and women are different physically and emotionally--even their brains are different.

The brains of teenagers aren't fully developed yet so it's kind of a dirty trick that nature played on them because their hormones are raging.

Girls still get pregnant, have babies at 15 yrs., get STDs and multiple abortions.

I wouldn't say that is progress. Early sexual promiscuity can mess up your head if you're a young girl.

[Lilith Velkor]

138. Will it mess up your head if you're a young boy?

If not, why not?

[Andromeda]

151. Look at the boys molested by Catholic priests...

or any other adult. People in a position of power who force children into sex can inflict a lot of damage.

Boys start having sexual feelings at a very young age and it's not uncommon for them to masterbate several times a day (in private). If they are taught that it's bad or abnormal they can develop some serious sexual problems.

The same can be said for some girls so it's important that both girls and boys get the right sex education so they can learn how to protect themselves against STDs, pregnancy and rape.

A lot of things can happen to kids and they need to be armed with facts, that's all I'm saying.

[Lilith Velkor]

154. Molestation is not promiscuity

Although sometimes promiscuity happens as a reaction to molestation. I totally dig what you are saying about the facts. I'm glad I had them before adolescence. I just wish it were less socially acceptable for parents/adults to be completely irrational about teenage sexuality. A lot of fucked-up, tragic shit happens because kids have to be secretive about it.

[Andromeda]

168. Most kids are secretive...

and don't talk to their parents about personal stuff, especially sex. They're more comfortable talking to each other rather than an adult so it's not always the parent's fault.

When you have your own children you'll learn why parents worry so much about what their kids are doing and who they're doing it with.

[Lilith Velkor]

170. Oh, come on.

I didn't say it's always the parents' fault. It's just that there's a rather large sector of the population, mostly wimmin AFAIK, that is conditioned to go bugfuck insane at the mention of sex, and I don't think that is conducive to parental guidance. Speaking of which, did you know I had to have my uterus removed last year? Please think about that before you say, "When you have your own children you'll learn" to somebody you don't know. Or don't. It's a free country.

[okieinpain]

133. then you're in favor of taking a shit in the middle of the street. you

know seeing how basic anthropology dictates that values will change over time.

[alcibiades_mystery]

198. My post doesn't indicate favor one way or another

I'm simply pointing out that the emotional effects of sexuality are related to cultural norms about sexuality, so if the article is claiming that these are changing, then we can't impose the old emotional responses on the new organizaqtion of sexuality. Seems like a pretty obvious claim, but then the opposition to that claim here is comically fierce, if incoherent.

As for taking a shit on the street, the analogous claim would be very simple. In a society where taking a shit on the street was the cultural norm, few people would feel any compunction about it - nor, and this is the key, would they respond with the same disgust that we do in our current organization of defecation (we have developed very specific rules for when one can and cannot take a shit, and violation of these rules is not merely acknowledged, but is felt physically - that they are more or less arbitrary rules make them no less powerfully felt). One need not support taking a shit on the street to assent to that obvious claim.

[alcibiades_mystery]

47. Because girls don't enjoy sex?

Seems to be the underlying assumption of your argument here. Girls who have sex are being victimized and get no benefit from it. Speak for yaself, sister. And if you're so worried about STDs, don't those affect boys, too?

Weird, prudish post. Lucky the trend is against you.

[Lindacooks]

73. Actually, she's right and you're wrong.

Far more girls are victimized from sex than benefit from it. And the hormones released in romantic love 'activates parts of the brain associated with addiction'.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/printerfriendly/science/1e05359b9fa84010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html

And then, of course, girls respond to stress (breaking up, arguments, relationship problems) much differently than boys do:

"...women's bodies respond to stress differently than do men's. They pour out higher levels of stress hormones and fail to shut off production readily. The female sex hormone progesterone blocks the normal ability of the stress hormone system to turn itself off. Sustained exposure to stress hormones kills brain cells, especially in the hippocampus, which is crucial to memory.

It's bad enough that females are set up biologically to internally amplify their negative life experiences. They are prone to it psychologically as well, finds University of Michigan psychologist Susan Nolen-Hoeksema, Ph.D.

Women ruminate over upsetting situations, going over and over negative thoughts and feelings, especially if they have to do with relationships. Too often they get caught in downward spirals of hopelessness and despair.

It's entirely possible that women are biologically primed to be highly sensitive to relationships. Eons ago it might have helped alert them to the possibility of abandonment while they were busy raising the children. Today, however, there's a clear downside. Ruminators are unpleasant to be around, with their oversize need for reassurance. Of course, men have their own ways of inadvertently fending off people. As pronounced as the female tilt to depression is the male excess of alcoholism, drug abuse and antisocial behaviors."

If you understood that, it means that girls are much more likely to have difficulty in relationships, especially when they don't have the life experience of relationships that begin and end, in other words, when they are young. To assume that sex at a young age is okay and not affecting girls AND boys is simply ignorant.

[mongo]

88. We'd better ban romantic love - quick

It's "addicting"

:sarcasm:

[readmoreoften]

156. Sigh, so glad I'm a dyke.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah too young blah blah blah blah blah sex is good blah blah blah no its not blah blah etc.

My biggest problem as a kid was worrying about getting gaybashed if I acted on my crushes. If the 13 year old tomboy that I crushed on in sixth grade would've liked me back, I would have had a much happier adolescence no matter what we did.

[Darth_Kitten]

81. I'm sure if most women fake orgasms, even more girls would...

I doubt that really young people are having really good sex.

Not a weird, prudish post, and no, the "trend" isn't against her. :eyes:

[Matariki]

125. why do you think sexual enjoyment is just for boys/men?

i had raging hormones at 15 (way back in the 70's) and first had sex at that age. i have a wonderful happy sex life and have never regretted a moment of it.

as far as pregnancy & stds - i think that's the point in the increase in oral sex. plus better sex education. before the 90's condoms were considered quite nasty, you could only get them in places like truck stop men's rooms.

i think this is great news. it means that women are getting transcending fear of their sexuality that has been foisted on us for god knows how long and being more proactive in getting what they want.

[Le Taz Hot]

178. Outstanding points

But it is a mixed bag, isn't it? Some young women are having sex because they WANT to have sex. As Molly Ivins would say, "Good on 'em!" As long as they're using protection against unwanted pregnancy and STD's, it's about time they feel the freedom to do what the males have been doing from time immemorial.

OTOH, girls ARE different than boys, particularly emotionally. For whatever reason, we seem to want to attach emotions to the sexual experience more so than males. (A disgusting practice we desperately need to eliminate.) I have to ask myself if the girls are having sex because they WANT to have sex OR are they having it to please their "man" or some other nefarious reason. Most don't have enough life experience to be able to make that call. OTOOH, I can see that same argument being used to continue to repress women's sexuality.

It's not an easy issue.

[AX10]

55. Why is this welcome? Children should NOT be...

having sexual relations. At such a young age, children don't know the important value of the act yet.

[funflower]

98. Oh, please! Do you think they're using condoms? This is a win for HIV.

25 years after the start of the AIDS epidemic, we're seeing an INCREASE in risky behavior? We are doing something really wrong.

[underpants]

2. "This information is encouraging but dammit WE NEED NAMES!!"

-NYC Mayor Jimmy Walker on a survey, back then, that said that 2/3 of women would have sex on the first date.

[Poll_Blind]

5. LOL! Loved that! n/t

PB

[gulfcoastliberal]

68. Ah, it only took 2 posts for the quote.

I knew it would be whipped out.

[kath]

76. "whipped out" - BWAH!!

[lovuian]

4. You can't get pregnant if you have oral sex...

The kids this generation figured it out!!! Past generations thought it was evil...

Yes and those freewheeling girls are the ones who are in control here...

and yet you can see the Republicans trying to interject there rules and regulations here!!!

[Lindacooks]

7. Sigh. Not this again. You CAN and DO get STDs from oral sex.

Plus, it's far more likely that it's girls giving oral sex to boys, which is just another way for boys to coerce girls into having sex before they are ready.

[Coexist]

8. they said "you can't get PREGNANT from oral sex"

there was nothing in the post about STDs. And if you read all of the press this has been getting in the past few years, the oral sex is mutual. Which (and I have a teenage daughter and son) is cool with me. Oral sex is usually more pleasurable for women than intercourse. A lot of women don't ever have orgasms from vaginal sex.

My kids know how to be safe, and they know I don't prize their virginity - it is up to them. As long as they know they could trust the person they are with, with the most personal secret they had, and they use protection and don't feel pressured.

[Lindacooks]

11. Uh huh. Right.

Where did you get the idea that girls enjoy giving oral sex?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_binks/20040217.html

What's become evident in the past couple of years is a frightening new trend: teenage girls are being pressured at an earlier age than ever to have sex – more particularly oral sex (which by the way can be just as risky for many sexually transmitted diseases) – and when they do, the double standard of the 50s still applies.

Noon also talks to the boys. She says most of them find the idea of providing oral sex to a girl disgusting, so she challenges them about why they would expect a girl to do it for them. As well, she asks them how they would feel about their sister being asked to provide it.

She feels that boys aren't directly telling females to do this, but rather that girls feel an indirect pressure, that they must provide oral sex to keep a guy. It seems the old attitudes are still alive.

How sad that a generation of little girls raised with Girl Power are being treated as nothing more than "snap-on" tools. Wasn't Girl Power about letting young females know they could be anything they wanted to be when they grew up, that science and math could be tackled successfully by girls, that hockey was a sport for girls and that a career and family was do-able? Where did everyone go wrong on this one?

[Coexist]

12. Are you deliberatley misreading the posts?

I said girls enjoy oral sex - meaning GETTING oral sex.

[Lindacooks]

14. Are YOU deliberately misreading the posts?

My link above said boys think giving oral sex is DISGUSTING.

[TroglodyteScholar]

32. I'm 25...

...and in high school I only knew maybe 2 guys who were disgusted at the thought of giving oral sex. Everyone else was jumping at the chance.

[Coexist]

38. How many boys did they interview

because I knew several in high school who enjoyed it very much!

[DS1]

41. I just got pregrant and contracted herpes from your post

:scared:

[podnoi]

121. I am glad I was able to enjoy a gradual introduction to sex

I am so glad that sexuality came gradually in my young life. There is nothing wrong with innocence as a child. It is a gift.

There is a huge difference between making someone feel ugly or inhibited vs parenting to allow them to maintain their childhood away from artifical societal pressures to give it up prematurely.

In this society our children experience too much sex and violence at too young of an age. There is nothing prudish about wanting to give Children childhoods. In fact it is necessary to civilized societies.

[Kaylee]

162. Thank you.....

This is my exact feeling about the Victoria Secret windows. I'm not a prude, but I want my daughter to be a kid as long as she wants to, without the pressures or exposures that cause them to grow up too fast.

[MarsThe Cat]

149. LOTS of them do...

granted, there are exceptions- some people are raised with an unhealthy aversion to sexuality, and view it as "dirty"- but that's really their problem.
as long as there are guys who like getting blow-jobs, there will be girls who enjoy giving them- thank god.

[mongo]

24. Oh boy...

just another way for boys to coerce girls into having sex

Because girls don't have any hormones or anything that would make them WANT to have sex...

[Lindacooks]

34. Oh come on.

It wasn't that long ago that I was a teenager, and teenage boys are mostly a mass of hormones, FAR more so than girls are.

[Darth_Kitten]

82. If girls WANTED sex....real sex

then wouldn't they have boys give THEM oral sex? But it never seems to be that way. ;)
Come on, I was a teenage girl, I had teenage girls as friends, trust me, when teenage girls are having sex, it's to PLEASE boys, period.
;)


No empowerment, no revolution, no nothing. :)

[mongo]

90. If what you say is true...

Come on, I was a teenage girl, I had teenage girls as friends, trust me, when teenage girls are having sex, it's to PLEASE boys, period.

Then it's no wonder there are so many anti-sex andorist women on DU.

I'm sorry that you and lindacooks had such bad experiances as teenagers,
but somehow I don't think you speak for ALL young women...

[Dora]

94. That's a good one!

:rofl: I hope you don't think that your male wishful thinking is a better barometer of adolescent female sexual behavior than women's actual experience.

[Darth_Kitten]

112. Hold on, you are SO off base about me...

Anti sex? Why? Because I don't agree with you? :eyes:

please don't project onto me. No, I didn't have a bad experience as a teenager, I was one of the smart ones who DIDN'T choose to get knocked up or get any manner of STD like so many girls I knew did.

And I'm just giving my opinion, how come when some people give their opinions that aren't liked by some people, they are suddenly claiming to speak for all? Again, don't project onto people.

[Lilith Velkor]

109. That's crap. Sexist too.

I was also a teenage girl, I had teenage girls as friends, and some were prudes, but others were not. The prudes always assumed that all girls were like them. There was just no talking to girls like that. I was too busy having boys give me oral sex, anyway.

[mongo]

116. Thank you!

I asked my wife if she knew that she just had sex to please boys as a teenager. Ha! And here she thought she wanted it...

I was too busy having boys give me oral sex, anyway.

Did I used to date you in high school?

[Lilith Velkor]

117. Probably not

I went to HS in the mid-'80s, but the social atmosphere wherein it was expected of boys still lingered. Even the preppy boys associated it with manhood status. One might even say you all were coerced and exploited. You poor poor men :cry: (I kid, of course. Everyone knows males have no feelings, and never, ever get victimized by females, delicate, fragile flowers that we are.)

[Darth_Kitten]

175. I said that most girls in my experience do have sex to get/keep a guy...

Not that they all did it. :eyes:

Honestly. :sarcasm:

[muriel_volestrangler]

180. No, you didn't say most

You said "trust me, when teenage girls are having sex, it's to PLEASE boys, period."

Or when you say 'period' do you mean 'mostly'? If so, it's a novel use of the English language. That no-one else would understand.

[Darth_Kitten]

182. Okay, I should have clarified that....

MOSTLY.

:)

[Darth_Kitten]

174. It's not crap, and not sexist, thankyou.

It's my opinion, I'm not calling YOUR opinion garbage, huh? :eyes:

[Lilith Velkor]

181. It is sexist to presume all girls are alike

It is my opinion that sexist assertions are garbage. You may call my opinion whatever you wish.

[Darth_Kitten]

183. I don't presume all girls are alike....

And I'm hardly sexist. :eyes:

[Lilith Velkor]

185. So when you say:

<trust me, when teenage girls are having sex, it's to PLEASE boys, period. No empowerment here> you are not making a sweeping generalization about girls? How exactly does one infer that? I am not accusing you of being sexist, but if you post a grossly sexist and insulting statement like that one, a reader might come to that conclusion.

[bettyellen]

193. many of us had the opposite experience...

but i was raised to have a backbone and didn't put up with any coersive behaviour or feel pressures do the same things as my friends or have the same reactions as them.
yeah, i saw some girls having sex to keep guys, never enjoying sex, never getting (or caring) about what might get them off. guess what? i know 40- 50 year old women still doing it now, and society accepts them more than the women who are enojying themselves. i hope you came to terms with your issues not enjoying sex feeling unempowered, etc, but please don't hang that crap on your sisters. we didn't all succumb to the peer pressure like you did.

[Dora]

92. A girl's motives for having sex are not the same as a woman's. TMI Alert!

I'm generalizing here, I know, but I'll throw it out anyways.

Women fuck for pleasure, girls for acceptance. I was sexually active for four years before I understood that 1) yes, a woman can have an orgasm with a partner, and 2) no, sex with a man does not constitute a relationship.

A woman is not as responsive to sex at 16 as she is at 23.

(And at 33? Keep a fire extinguisher in the bedroom in case the sheets catch afire.:blush:)

Oh, and boys? Just because she says it feels good doesn't mean she's telling you the truth.

[mongo]

100. And whose problem is that?

Oh, and boys? Just because she says it feels good doesn't mean she's telling you the truth.

And thanks again for projecting your personal experience onto all women.

[Dora]

101. Wish much? n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

110. No, you do. n/t

[Randers]

120. I'm surprised that isn't discussed more...

Sex getting better for women. Though it is mentioned from time to time that that women's whatever peaks at 30something or other and mens at closer to 18?

The general society meme seems to be that sex with a virgin is the ultimate thing. I don't buy it.

[Dora]

131. "Society meme"

I think that meme is atually predominant in male culture.

I've never known any women to talk about how HOT it would be to get some nice, fresh, virgin boyflesh.

I also did a fair bit of research into women and sexual fantasy as an undergraduate, and male virginity just wasn't one of the common themes. S&M, D&S, bestiality, coercion, incest, exhibitionism, toys and accessories... yes. Virgins? No.

[Randers]

136. I think society would be greatly improved

if there were a new meme.

That women with sexual experience are the hot ones. (And leave the virgins alone until THEY are ready).

As you say - that is the meme for boys/men. The more experience - the better (supposedly... I don't think it's necessarily the case - esp. in the case of males who are only thinking of themselves and how many females they can enter).

There seems to be such a drive for women to be like men - for girls to act like boys.

I think we just need to get the memes on track.

Maybe that is what is happening... "It's also part of the general trend of sexual behavior moving away from marriage and reproduction and toward pleasure."

[Conservativesux]

163. Wow, some people here really have problems, dont they ?

"Oh, and boys? Just because she says it feels good doesn't mean she's telling you the truth."


And you are assuming that the man cares, are you not?

[superconnected]

29. somethings got to be done about that.

These girls need to learn that you don't do anything for someone, that they wouldn't do for you. Especially in sex.

I hate the idea the girls would be bowing to the boys without equal pay.

.... Back to my prude generation role.

[Dora]

96. "W/out equal pay"

We do it all the time, whether it's in the bedroom or the boardroom.

[superconnected]

30. .duplicate post

.

[Conservativesux]

157. "Before they are ready"? What does that reall mean?

When the sex drive hits you, you are ready, like it or not!

[mongo]

6. And yet sex education in our schools is a joke

When are we going to start giving teenagers good sexual education so that they can make informed choices and act responsibly?

Vows of abstinance break more easily than condoms...

[rkc3]

9. Vows of abstinence break more easily than condoms -

very nice indeed.

As a father of a nine year old daughter, I'm torn between educating her about sex and locking her up until she's 35. Your comment might come in handy in a week or two.

[mongo]

15. I found that on a bumper sticker at the DC protest

and it's now on my car.

I hear ya on your daughter. Mine's 20 now and she turned out all right, though getting through 14 and 15 was rough. Her mom dumped her on me with 24 hours notice when she as 14, but she was already smoking, drinking and having sex at that point.

We drew a line in the sand. You can't close pandora's box, but we could keep her from falling over a cliff.

So, harm reduction became the main goal. Once we came to terms with each other, she calmed down and is an honors student in college now.

Harm reduction is what it is all about. Give them the information they need to make better choices.

Good luck!

[rkc3]

28. That's the path I've been taking - harm reduction.

Since I can't (legally) lock her up or go out on every date with her.

I agree the best that can be done is education - let her know about the consequences and she'll use her head.

[TahitiNut]

10. "In previous generations, oral sex was considered disgusting"????

Well, as a member of a "previous generation," nothing could be further from MY 'truth'. :eyes:

[mongo]

19. Really, and in the late 70's

It was a young mans duty to munch carpet. Back then it was more common for boys to perform on girls - because we were expected to give our ladies an orgasm.

[TahitiNut]

22. Indeed. And to whatever degree it was regarded as "unpopular" ...

... that was SOLELY (imho) attributable to (secret) feelings of ineptitude (abysmal ignorance). I remember being intimate with gals who actually thought the word "blow" (as in "blow job") was somehow accurate. (Ouch!) I remember guys (including ME!) who didn't have the slightest idea what was where, and who didn't know a clitoris from a urethra. (Ouch!)

The biggest problem "my generation" confronted was the almost total ignorance of eroticism ... and genital anatomy. This was compounded by the "silence is golden" presumption -- that somehow it "comes natural." Almost without exception, the most sexually frustrated (and correspondingly puritanical) gals were also the gals who were verbally as well as orally repressed. "We don't talk about those things" was the motto of the chrome-huggers.

[sendero]

23. I get the feeling...

... they are talking several generations back.

[ninkasi]

56. I don't know your age, TahitiNut...

but I'm 62, and never considered oral sex disgusting. Quite the contrary, as a matter of fact. I've also never had a partner who balked at the oral sex being mutual. We had hormones back in the 50s, too.

[TahitiNut]

59. We're the same age, ninkasi -- and of the same mind.

What's your sign? :silly: (I became eligible for early SS in July.)

As one of those (purportedly unusual) guys who's never been inclined to 'make love' when it wasn't about love, incapable of being other than serially monogamous, I've also never hesitated to be intimate in that way. I did, however, know a couple of women who just weren't comfortable receiving such attentions. In hindsight, I'm now quite confident it wasn't about me -- a confidence I didn't have as much of at the time, being younger when such self-confidence was rarer.

Also for me, sex has to be mutual. The very idea of being 'serviced' (or 'accommodated') is something I find repulsive - a turn-off. I've never been able to use a woman as some substitute for masturbation -- it's somehow never been a part of my make-up for some reason. If it ain't mutual, it just ain't.

I sure am glad that young folks are better educated than I was, and more open with each other - I think it can make all the difference in attaining some emotional maturity regarding sexual relations. Despite the repressive wishes of the reich wing, it's a wonderfully rewarding part of life.

I still have a very soft spot in my heart for one former lover -- we were perfectly matched in our reciprocal zeal and (fairly mainstream) interests. The. Best. Sex. Ever. ... Electric. Alive. (Wow.) And very 'tasteful.'

[ninkasi]

60. That's so good to hear...

I am a Gemini. I can count one or two former lovers as being very good friends now. At the time, we had exclusive relationships, but people can change, and grow. Yes, sex absolutely has to be mutual. One of my sons,by the way, was in love with, and lived with, a woman for several years. Even though they severed the sexual aspect of their relationship, mutual respect and common interests have kept them close friends for years.

She is now married to someone else, and when my son goes to visit, he stays with them. She was at Camp Casey, as a volunteer, and she and I still communicate. They will always share a deep and abiding respect and affection.

It's truly a shame that the radical right-wing fringe tries to make something which can be beautiful and spiritual into something sordid. With me, there was always a deep affection, and respect. i get along very well with my present husband's former wife, and she with me. What a shame that some people are so repressed, and petty, as to consider sex dirty and sinful, and condone leaving our most vulnerable to starve, or die of exposure to heat or cold, or lack of medical care. What a topsy-turvy world that is to me.

[tabasco]

58. Yeah, what previous generations are they talking about?

Like when people didn't take showers and stuff?

[Lindacooks]

13. Do you really think that oral sex is mutual? You KNOW that it's girls

performing fellatio on boys. This is just another way for girls to be pressured into having sex, even more so because boys can say 'it's not really sex.'

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/transitions/transitions1203_10.htm

Some clinicians say that they are seeing new types of STD infections and new types of patients —young teens who have not initiated coitus but who come in with fears and anxiety over having acquired an STD orally. Many researchers believe that young teens who have not initiated coitus may be especially reluctant to seek treatment for orally acquired infections. Moreover, adolescents virtually never use condoms or dental dams to protect against orally acquired STD infections.

Experts believe that the oral sex practiced by younger teens is mostly fellatio, not cunnilingus. This also raises questions of exploitation of young teens if the young women are performing oral sex to make boys happy or when alcohol is involved. Deborah Roffman, sexuality educator at The Park School in Baltimore, related the experience of a guidance counselor who, after bringing up the topic of rape in the context of coerced oral sex, was told by female students that the term did not apply since fellatio 'is not really sex.'

[kostya]

26. I think you need to look at the survey more closely.

I read an earlier expansive article on this survey, the first of its kind (which says a lot about our prudish society in itself), not sure what's covered in this instantiation.

One of the interesting facts is that the girls were MUCH more likely to have same-sex experiences than the boys, something like 1/3rd of them. Also, the boys reported a pretty significant rate of giving oral sex to the girls. So, I'd say your trying to pin all the oral sex on the boys might be a little off base.

- K

[Lindacooks]

33. Uh uh. I've seen research studies (see my other posts) that

clearly state boys receive oral sex FAR more than they give it. And this is just another way for teenage boys to coerce girls into sex before they are ready. This has happened since the beginning of time, and the perception that oral sex isn't 'sex' can only make things worse for teenage girls.

[Coexist]

40. this study had12,000 teens and belies that...

THURSDAY, Sept. 15 (HealthDay News) -- About 12 percent of males and 10 percent of females aged 15-to-19 have participated in oral sex with a member of the opposite sex, possibly to delay sexual intercourse, a new federal survey has found.

The findings, released Thursday by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, disclosed that these teenagers had not had vaginal intercourse.

<snip>
"This is the first time we've had data on use of oral sex by teenagers, particularly teen females," said the study's lead author, Bill Mosher, a statistician with the CDC's National center for Health Statistics (NCHS.) "It appears that the levels of oral sex are higher among white teens than among Black and Hispanic teens. That's one possible reason for the somewhat later age of first sex among white teens."

These findings are just a small part of the research that involved more than 12,000 participants interviewed in 2002 across the United States.

http://www.healthfinder.gov/news/newsstory.asp?docID=528010

[marshall]

93. A heterosexist approach

Everyone is approaching this from the standpoint that this is only about boys/girls having sex with girls/boys. Can we broaden our horizons a little?

[Coexist]

39. This NPR survey says it BOTH boys and girls

Survey Details Teen Views of Oral Sex
by Patricia Neighmond

All Things Considered, September 15, 2005 · A new survey shows that about 55 percent of teens report having had oral sex. The researchers say the study shows that teenagers who say that they abstain from sexual intercourse don't necessarily abstain from oral sex. According to the results, the rate of oral sex is about the same for boys and girls. The study was done by health experts from the Child Trends independent research center, who analyzed new federal health statistics.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4849463&ft=1&f=1001

[Qibing Zero]

64. That doesn't mention who is performing what

If they just asked them if they have participated, without making note of whether they had personally been on the giving or recieving end, of course the numbers are going to be around the same.

[Qibing Zero]

63. I'm with you on this one

I just have this thing where an unequal amount of pleasure on both sides really bothers me. I guess it's just a personal preference, but it really does piss me off, both having friends who talk openly about their experiences with the subject being one-sided, and being told by society in just about every aspect that I'm supposed to want women to be subserviant like that just because I'm male.

[Conservativesux]

158. Really? So you KNOW that the boys arent carpet munching just how?

Sounds like you are a prude to me.

[soothsayer]

16. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think this is positive for women.

They're just doing more to please men. Even the dabbling in lesbianism is done to please boys. Feh!

[ECH1969]

17. I also don't like women pleasing men

[superconnected]

31. I think it's fine providing the girls demand the boys do the same for them

Without that, it's not fine in my book at all.

[Darth_Kitten]

85. But they won't....

because they aren't that mature to really to handle sexual relationships, REAL sexual relationships. :)

[soothsayer]

43. Me, I like sex to MEAN something special. An old fashioned les-

bian I guess.

[Qibing Zero]

70. Exactly.

If you're old fashioned, so is this 21 year old, athiest, straight male. I personally think the way our society views sexuality is insulting to both sexes.

[Darth_Kitten]

84. I totally agree....

:)

[Whoa_Nelly]

20. Geez Louise! This sounds like a headline redux from 1968 n/t

[bemildred]

21. One should not assume the kids are all being promiscuous.

Just that they are doing it. The article says nothing
about number of parthers, or frequency of "activity".

It says, roughly, that they try it younger, are more
pragmatic, and find oral activities more acceptable.

Since it talks particularly about girls, it is reasonable
to think that its girls that are having more oral sex. Boys
have alway been fairly enthusiastic about it anyway.

IMHO.

[Gormy Cuss]

27. Oh, this should get the author on the talk show circuit...

This survey was a meta analysis of 530 studies (~269,000 respondents) cross-temporally, covering a period from 1943 to 1999.

Meta analyses are good for gleaning general findings but can be quite tricky because the output is only as good as the quality of the studies used for input. This team used over 500 studies. I wonder how many had methodological reports for reference.

The quote from the author "oral sex was considered disgusting" sounds like it was written for the 'wow factor' in the press release. An article was published in the Review of General Psychology but it only a brief abstract is available on line.

[Lindacooks]

36. Read this:

In the U.S., approximately one in four sexually active teens acquires a sexually transmitted disease (STD). Infectious syphilis rates have more than doubled among teenagers since the mid 1980s. One million teenage girls become pregnant each year.

<snip>

This “wholesome, nice-girls-like-sex” message has also helped change the “nice boys’” attitudes toward sexual violence against “nice girls.” In fact, rape is now often euphemistically referred to as “rough sex.”

In May 1988 the Rhode Island Rape Crisis Center asked 1,700 sixth- to ninth-grade students to share their attitudes about sex and rape. More than half the boys and girls considered sex to be acceptable after six months of dating—even if rape was necessary to achieve it.

http://www.contentwatch.com/learn_center/article.php?id=149

[lovuian]

45. 1 million teenagers become pregnant ! With Oral sex you can't

so that is a plus in the statistics!!!

You don't have to get birth control.

[brentspeak]

37. Wonder if this has to do with the "Internet generation"

Pornography is now available to practically any 10 year-old who wants it. All they have to do is turn on his/her family's computer, and voila! everything they really shouldn't know about or see until later on is right there in front of their face.

[alarcojon]

57. I think you have a point

Any porn experts out there know if mainstream internets porn shows fellatio and cunnilingus in equal proportions?

[mongo]

95. It depends on what you mean by "equal proportions"

Especially since watching women give oral is a huge turn-on for a large segment of men, and the fact that most porn is produced for men, and that blowjob only porn is a speciality that many comapanies have a line of, then - no in shear numbers of scenes in the 1,000+ releases every month it is not proportional.

But, if you look at some of the major companies like Vivid and Wicked, the companies producing more couple-friendly porn, it is about even.

Teens turning to porn for sex-ed in the abscence of anything meaningful being taught in our schools is a sad thing - but not the fault of the industry.

[Chovexani]

105. It's how I learned

Sadly, my sex ed came from late night Skinemax. But that's what happens when you're raised by erotophobic fundies. Even then I was lucky. An acquaintance of mine was raised by a psycho Pentacostal type, and this girl literally learned on the street.

That's what they don't understand...teens will find out one way or another. If you don't teach them then something--or worse, someone predatory--will fill the vacuum.

[alarcojon]

108. Thanks, that's what I thought

You're absolutely right that if kids are learning about sex from Internet porn, there is a problem with the home and the school; and I was not trying to blame the porn industry.

It makes perfect sense that most oral sex depicted online is fellatio - it is market driven. But I think that coupling the market pressures with poor sex education leads to the issue raised by brentspeak - much of a generation is coming of age thinking that it's normal for the guy to receive a lengthy blowjob and then to reciprocate briefly, if at all, before getting to the "main course."

[Scout]

102. not an expert....

but that's one reason I don't care to watch much porn ... we get to see her blowing him for like 20 minutes, then he reciprocates for about 1 minute and then she has a screaming orgasm. Uh huh, right. Or if there is a woman receiving oral sex it's from another woman, and the guy is getting off watching them.

So far, my experience has been that porn is BORING. And the music sucks (pun intended).

[Qibing Zero]

66. Well, that is a problem, but I disagree with one aspect

I think the problem is not that they are viewing something they 'shouldn't know about yet', but that they are viewing sexual acts in a representation of an unrealistic situation. We figure kids shouldn't know about things until certain ages, but we don't take into account that the vast majority of the time they find out about them through other sources. If kids are finding out about the human anatomy and sexuality from pornography they're finding on the internet, instead of a source more rooted in reality, that really explains how fucked up the last 10 years have been, especially in regards to pop culture and all the stories I have to hear about in schools. No, you can't expect kids to not have sex until marriage, but you CAN expect them to take it seriously, and understand the beauty of human interaction.

I guess I can thank my own generation for this, having picked up the internet 10 years ago at the age of 11, back when it was streamlined, straight information, and no one was selling anything.

[sendero]

135. Even though..

... I've been ridiculed for saying it here, I'm all but certain of it.

As far as whether it is a good or bad thing, I'm pretty much neutral.

I want my kids to engage in responsible sexual behavior. And I don't want them looking at hardcore porn, and they know what I'll do with their computers if I catch them at it :)

[Kailassa]

137. But, Sendero, that gives them the message porn is desirable.

When I found my kids looking at porn I sat down with them at their computers and discussed it with them. Can you think of anything more likely to put a boy of porn than having his mother there watching it with him asking him which bits he likes best and why?

Banning something gives them the message that you expect them to want to do it, which means to kids it must be worth doing. But if you don't raise your eyebrows over it they see it's no big deal.

It is possible for anyone to get addicted to porn, but that says more about a big empty space in the person's life than about porn. Face it, nearly all of us have seen porn, and, although it might seem interesting at first, the more you see the more repulsively repetitive it gets. Ignore it, looking at a bit of porn just means a kid is growing up. Make sure they are happy and busy and they won't bother looking at it much.

[sendero]

139. That's a nice theory..

... but one to which I do not subscribe.

There are lots of things that I don't want my teenaged (12,14,15) year old boys doing. I don't want them messing with drugs or alcohol. I don't want them looking at hardcore porn (I don't care about "titty pix" ). I don't want them stealing one of my 40's and the car keys.

My kids are for the most part mature and they understand that they are too young to be doing certain things. I have no evidence that they are trying to sneak around - I remember the natural curiosity I had about sex at that age - but they do know that if I catch them looking at hardcore stuff there will be consequences.

I'm anything but prudish BUT, there is some stuff on the net that teenaged boys just don't need to see, period. In fact, there is some stuff on the net that nobody needs to see.

I'd be failing as a parent if I didn't set limits, and enforce them.

[mongo]

144. Yep and the day the first turns 18

he will be in my store buying a movie.

Making something forbidden only increases its appeal.

[sendero]

147. The day he turns 18..

.... he will be old enough to watch whatever he wants, with my blessing. God, some of you just don't get it.

[NashVegas]

146. LMAO!

Can you think of anything more likely to put a boy of porn than having his mother there watching it with him asking him which bits he likes best and why?

Oh, that's deliciously cruel.

[Pryderi]

42. Jerry Falwell says it's Bill Clinton's fault.

Getting head from Monica has caused an oral sex epidemic among teens.

[Spinzonner]

44. Well, arguably it has made talking about it less taboo

[Kailassa]

91. ohhh noooo :-(

all us australians misunderstood the message

we started smoking cigars :yoiks:

[iam]

46. I can guarantee you one thing about this,

if those two boys at Columbine had been getting laid regularly, there's NO WAY they would have done what they did. Guaranteed.

[Scout]

103. most ignorant post in the thread, so far. n/t

[Bridget Burke]

48. Those crazy flappers, drinking bootleg hooch,

Riding around in cars with boys, wearing those short skirts! What about future generations? Like the generation that went from "I Want to Hold Your Hand" to "Why Don't We Do It In the Road" in a few short years?

Not to say that problems can't arise, but this generation did not invent oral sex.

Goodbye to "Abstinence Only"

[DerekG]

50. How could this be construed as a moral victory for our side?

Am I supposed to rejoice that more 15 year olds (ahem, children) are imbibing semen? Is this an advance for women's rights?

I guess I was never a fan of cosmopolitan liberalism, anyway.

[GRLMGC]

51. YOU PRUDE!!!!

;)

[last_texas_dem]

61. I agree with you

I know I'm more personally conservative (though just as politically liberal) than most of DU but I am surprised that this is seen by so many as a positive development.

[Darth_Kitten]

83. Bravo!

:thumbsup:

[xchrom]

52. shocked, awed, worried!

uh not so much.

i don't know -- the girls in my family were having sex by that age -- they didn't get pregnant or contract any stds.

i was sexually active with both boys and girls by the time i was 13 -- most often with people much older than me.

life has turned out ok.

i have friends{women} who were sexually active before 18 -- they're all fine.

predictions of ruin rear their ugly head with every generation -- yet we seem to keep going and learn that sex is not the great boogey man people keep saying it is.

as far as aids goes -- people in every generation are going to fuck -- and more than a few will be willing to have unprotected sex -- that's just being human and fallible.
what's needed for aids is a vaccine -- nothing short of that will ever really stop the epidemic.

[devilgrrl]

54. Oh. so it's about what girls do?

What a bunch of sexist bullshit.

[Oeditpus Rex]

62. Related story at Salon

http://www.salon.com/books/review/2005/10/05/levy/index.html

(You know the drill: If you're not registered, y'gotta watch the ad.)

[progressivebydesign]

65. Well isn't that special.

Am I supposed to feel good about this? Am I supposed to feel great that girls are becoming sexual objects at a record young age? Is that empowering or something? Hardly. They are just buying into the media portrayal of pre-pubescent girls as sex object. Sexual pleasure at 14? Uh.. yah.

[Qibing Zero]

67. Contrast these numbers with ones from more sexually liberated nations

Having sex at a younger age has nothing to do with being less prudish.

The numbers dealing with pregnancies, birth rates, STDS, and other health issues are hideous for the US compared to the european countries.



Our sexual education is just complete and utter failure.

[madmark]

75. What's so new about this?

Young women have been pushing the sexual agenda my whole life.

[Solon]

78. Why is this surprising?

First, I strongly doubt that the general behavior of either males or females have changed all that much in the entire history of the human species. Just society's acceptance or condemnation of it, that's the only difference. Whether its you parents, grandparents, great-grandparent, or back all the way back a 20 thousand or more generations, and I bet that most females and males of those times did the EXACT same shit we do today. The only difference is how many would ADMIT it, plus the advancement of contraceptives nowadays, no more using *ahem* goat intestines for condoms anymore, they didn't work that well anyways. ;)

[Darth_Kitten]

79. OOOO, girls wanting to please men in any way they can....

nothing new, seems rather pathetic. :eyes:

When you are that young, you really don't know that much about real pleasure (but then I'm old school) just trying to keep and/or snag yourself a guy.

[bettyellen]

194. pathetic that YOU learned from your friends that this is what sex was for

and while it's initally awkward, i thought it was damned fun. but i wasn't prostituting myself trying to get something for it. that, to me, is twisted.
i had a few bouts of puppy love and learned sometimes i love the person, but the chemistry isn't there, or i liked the sexy part but the partner was lacking in other ways. i learned people ain't everything you always want them to be, and sometimes they suprise you and are so much more. just part of growing up, no big deal. i learned a lot about my own feeling, because i experienced them, and didn't shut them off as something i shouldn't feel.
but, i wan't in it to impress my friends or have a guy take me places, so what to i know? i knida looked at those gals as spineless.

[DemBones DemBones]

87. Twenty years ago, public health officials knew that

teenaged girls were having anal sex to please their boyfriends, avoid pregnancy, and "preserve their virginity."

It was one of our biggest problems in AIDS education here. (No doubt it still is, but I'm not working with teens anymore.)

Hanging on to "technical virginity" probably accounts for a lot of the increase in oral sex, too.

[VegasWolf]

89. Good for them, most people are way to anal about sex anyway! nt

[DerekG]

113. But is that what you'd want for your son or daughter?

I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't exactly swoon when I found out my 15 year old son had his mouth in genitalia instead of ice cream; nor would I wax rhapsodic if my daughter was fitting her lips over a phallus.

However primeval it may sound, I plan on teaching my children to fancy their bodies as temples.

[Kailassa]

114. I hope you'll forgive my cheek

in giving you unasked for and probably unneeded advice about how to do that.

1. Treat the children with respect as much of the time as you can; cultivate a basic attitude of respect towards them.

2. Use as little punishment as possible. Often cracking down firmly when something first happens leads to not needing punishment later, especially if you get it across to the kids when they are little that you know that they really want to please you.

3. Don't ever let them be made to cuddle and kiss other people, even close friends or rellies. Once a little girl gets used to having to kiss someone to make them happy even when she doesn't want to, the stage is set for doing the same for a boy later.

4. Give the kids so much love and attention they won't be desperately needing cuddles and love from someone else too soon.

I hope you have extended family to help, it can make things so much easier.

[VegasWolf]

141. Personally, I could care less!!! They live their own lives. It doesn't

bother me one bit.

[Kailassa]

97. Contraception has always been a 2-edged sword.

I'm all for contraception being freely available, for thorough education about sex starting before most kids are doing it, and for an accepting attitude to whatever the kids decide to do.

BUT

I'd be surprised if the situation in America is all that different to here in Australia, and here girls in local high-schools are getting pressured from day one to have sex with the older boys. From the time girls lost the: "I can't do it or I'll get pregnant'" excuse, some have felt they had to have sex if their boyfriends wanted. And this has expanded to a growing group of guys who won't date a girl unless she at least gives head. We just had to change my grand-daughter's school, at 12 she was being ridiculed for still being a virgin. Now she travels to one in a "better" area, and doesn't have that trouble any more.

If a girl, or guy, they can be sensitive and get hurt just as badly, really want sex, fine, but I really believe that kids need a special relationship class at school to help them work out what's right for themselves. This would need to be run by a teacher the kids could feel at ease with, who could get them to discuss the issues and learn from each other, rather than being a stand-at-the-blackboard teacher.

Kids are all different, what matters is that each is taught some responsibility, (many don't understand how the other person can end up hurt,) encouraged to think about what they are doing, and empowered to do what is right for themselves.

[bloom]

118. "being ridiculed for still being a virgin" at 12

That is depressing. I'm glad she was able to change schools.


I don't like the idea of younger and younger girls being pressured to "perform". It's another way our society is failing, IMO. Advertising/propaganda will be our downfall.

[phylny]

128. My daughter (16) definitely feels the pressure, and is struggling with

the number of girls she knows having casual sex. She feels "out of it" but wants to stick to her guns. Our 13-year-old knows girls who are sexually active in her grade as well.

We're rearing three girls in our family, and our message is clear and consistent: Sex is wonderful, when you're ready for the adult responsibilities that may come with it: Babies, decisions on what to do if you become pregnant which are not always easy to make, sexually transmitted diseases, possibly fertility issues from those diseases, and most importantly, the EMOTIONAL aspects that sexual relationships bring. We're clear on the importance of insisting that a condom must be used should they decide to become sexually active.

I have also discussed the fact that most (not all, but most) 16-year-old boys don't care that much about the girl's pleasure, and that an act which should be about mutual pleasure many times ends up being all about him.

We've been open and honest about sex and sexuality from the time the girls were little, and thus far it's paid off in empowering THEM to make decisions based upon what's best for them.

[Conservativesux]

159. There are no babies with oral sex. Thats what is so good about this news.

[bettyellen]

165. um, a condom isn't enough- no wonder you think someone who's

sexually active needs to be ready to deal with the "responnsibility". it ain't that hard to protect yourself, combining methods and free yourself of that anxiety... as for the the "emotional baggage" i'm not even gonna go there- at least men are alllowed to admit they ain't feeling it, but women have to fake broken hearts 24/7 to maintain their honor in a society that insists they will get all bound up emotionally. hysterical bullshit.

[Darth_Kitten]

176. Be careful!

You might be accused of being an uptight prude. ;)

Wow, best response I've read on this topic! :)

[Threedifferentones]

107. It seems alot of posters in this thread have

forgotten that teenagers are individuals just like everybody else. Whether sex is "bad" or "good" at a certain age depends entirely on the
maturity levels and personalities of those involved, although more people are unready at certain ages than at others. And I can tell you for a fact, having up till recently been classified as a "minor", that high-schoolers can be just as careful as adults when it comes to preventing STDs and pregnancy.

Just my two cents.

[robertpaulsen]

115. Thank you.

The Victorian prudishness I've been witnessing on this thread has really surprised me. Thanks for putting things in perspective.

My two cents as well.

[Eyeball Kid]

122. Just a moment here... ah!

:popcorn:

[Roland99]

130. It's the "Girls Gone Wild" generation.

[zanne]

134. Oral and anal sex IS for fundies!

How else do you think their kids are remaining "virgins" until their wedding day?

[umass1993]

142. The Culmination of the Feminist Movement

Has been to remove the taboo of women using their sexuality in order to empower themselves.


I'm 34 and I am really turned off by these women using their sexuality in order to get me to buy something, whether it's their album or a Mach 3 razor.

The young women, girls really, simply emulate what they think is expected of them in order to get what they want.

[uniden]

150. hmmm

"The young women, girls really, simply emulate what they think is expected of them in order to get what they want."

Those women shouldn't cry sexism when "they're looked at as sexual objects" then. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[bleedingheart]

177. Clearly you do not understand the Feminist Movement

It is about equal rights.

If you do not know the difference between an ad, designed by an advertising company to appeal to the basest instincts, from a movement to give women equal rights and pay....I feel sorry for you.

[VegasWolf]

143. The Puritan responses on this thread are really startling!!! Sex is good.

[Conservativesux]

160. I agree 100%! I didnt realise how many prudes there are here.

[Darth_Kitten]

173. So you must know what a quality sex life is and we "prudes" do not?...

ha.

Yeah, 15 year old girls are put on this world to blow. :eyes: Oh, I must be so uptight in thinking this is, well, wrong. :sarcasm:

[thinkingwoman]

148. Blame Eve first

Adam couldn't think of a damn thing on his own. :eyes:

[really annoyed]

152. Gee, guess I missed the revolution....

I'm a virgin, and I'll wait until marriage to have ANY kind of sexual contact, thanks.

I don't see anything positive about this.

Call me a prude if you wish.... I'll take it as a compliment.

[Kailassa]

189. I agree.

I said exactly the same thing until I became the first single mother in my college class. O8)

[DerekG]

201. Take the "prude" label as a compliment

Believe it or not, some of us progressives never subscribed to the "sex, drugs and rock n' roll" lifestyle. (Although I confess...I kinda like that last one.)

[conflictgirl]

166. Wow. The responses here surprise me!

I'm upset by the sexism in the way the original article is worded, blaming it all on the girls. It's never a one-way street.

That said, though, trying to get teens to remain abstinent is fighting against biology. That's why I don't understand all the arguments some made in this thread about how teens are "too young" to emotionally deal with sex. If teens were too young to deal with sex, I don't believe they would be biologically capable of reproduction at that age. I think the problem is that *modern society* makes the natural consequences of reproduction unrealistic, so adults need to try to get their teens through to the legal age of adulthood without things like pregnancy. Part of that is also artificially prolonging a sense of dependency in teens, too. In centuries past, teens were married, having babies, and taking care of households on their own. There's no reason teens are incapable of that today, other than the fact that it doesn't work with the demands of modern life.

I do agree that few teenage boys are focused on making sure their sexual partners are experiencing pleasure. However, I don't believe that girls are having sex because they feel coerced into it. I'm 31 and I was sexually active in my teens, and I didn't feel coerced into it. Most of the girls I knew were also sexually active, and it was because we liked it. It is indeed possible to acknowledge that teen boys are too rarely focused on their partners' pleasure AND that teen girls are having sex because they want it. The two are not mutually exclusive ideas. It is very DIS-empowering and insulting to young women to suggest that they are not interested in sex for their own reasons and that they're only doing it to keep men happy.

[loyalsister]

171. well said

I was also reassured to see the anthropological references. For those who assumed it was a sexist issue, I suggest looking up Helen Fisher. She is an anthropologist who has studied human sexual behavior for a very long time.
In her book, "The First Sex," she mentioned the fact that men and women both must be lying a little.
The female numbers come in on the low side, the male numbers come in on the high side. Ladies are probably modest and boys probably brag. This means that women have liked it and done it quite a bit more than previously thought, and the secret is just now getting out.
The emerging trends should not be unexpected. We can handle this cultural shift if we don't pretend it is something abnormal. I wouldn't encourage it, certainly, but we shouldn't kid ourselves either. I would hope that they stay within their age group, and the main priority IMO is to do what we can to keep them safe.

[NewJeffCT]

179. good post

I would also add to where you say: It is indeed possible to acknowledge that teen boys are too rarely focused on their partners' pleasure AND that teen girls are having sex because they want it. that it is not just teen boys that are too rarely focused on the pleasure of their partners...plenty of adult men are that way, too.

[conflictgirl]

191. That is very true

And I noticed that somewhere up in the thread, someone made reference to the fact that if the boys are not focused on the girls' pleasure, then there would be no reason for the girls to want sex. That is totally untrue. That assumes that girls have no sex drive of their own, which is a lie. The same is true for adult women. It's a trickier situation for girls and women because while they may have the desire to have sex, the payoff (so to speak) isn't guaranteed. Females need to learn to articulate what they want, and whether or not they can do so has little to do with age. I know that in my teen years, when I was sexually active, if I had *known* what would've helped me achieve orgasm, I would've been able to ask for it. Figuring out what I needed was something that took time, and that would've been true even if I waited until I was in my 20s to become sexually active.

Also, just because I'm married to a good man and am the mother of three boys and want to stick up for the male gender a little - I did encounter some boys even in my teen years who cared very much about trying to give me pleasure, too. It's not like I had a ton of partners (LOL) but I think it paints males with too broad of a brush to say that they're only interested in their own pleasure. Some guys are like that, some are not. I'm not sure this is entirely good, but I've noticed that a lot of younger guys I hear talking about sex place a lot of emphasis on their ability to give a girl an orgasm. The sexual conquest that most people associate with males isn't just about getting a woman into bed, but increasingly it's also about their sense of pride if they can give pleasure to a woman.

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

184. C'mon this is news? teens are having sex?

this is bad? gimme a break.

give em education and condoms. the other stuff can hardly be influenced anyway.

better focus on the economical situation forcing people (to stay) into rotten couples, the atmosphere of violence, and that they are wearing uniforms while shooting up civilians in other parts of the world.

what set of priorities you have...

[leeroysphitz]

186. Wow. What a typically AMERICAN set of responses...

Funny how these problems are so much smaller in Europe where teen age sexuality isn't treated with such puritan knee jerking. I guess it may have something to do with the fact that these societies actually take the time to realisticly EDUCATE their children. Hmmmmm...... What a novel approach.





sp

[DerekG]

200. No one here is averse to stronger sex-education programs

It's just that some of us aren't about to extend accolades to the 15 year-old children who fancy oral sex to be a kind of innocent dalliance, nor will we ever be in accord with those posters who think it's cute and harmless for said children to be partaking in these activities.

And this culture isn't puritanical--it's schizophrenic. On one end, we have the evangelicals, who threaten their children with hellfire; on the other end, we have the corporatists and the architects of pop culture, who liken our children to budding sex pots, and prostitute their images in the name of the almighty dollar.

If extolling such qualities as temperance and integrity is indicative of puritanism, then this socialist is resigned to taking the moniker, Cotton.

[VegasWolf]

187. Jeez! and the problem with oral sex is???? I don't see a problem! nt

[Lilith Velkor]

188. It leads to impeachment

:silly:

[VegasWolf]

192. LOL!!! Truly! What a shame for an innocent little activity! nt

[NC_Nurse]

196. Education and the right to get protection and contraception

PRIVATELY are the best ways to help teens avoid STD's and unwanted pregnancies. THEY will choose when to have sex for themselves, despite adults fantasies of control. Period.

Why give them a bunch of sanctimonious baggage to carry around about when it's proper or moral to have sex and how they should have it? What a crock!

If there is an element of force or harassment involved, then that is different...just like between people a few years older.

Why can't people separate the act from the possibilty of disease or pregnancy. You wouldn't tell someone not to breathe so they don't get the flu. Not to eat so they won't chance food poisoning or getting fat. You just need to educate them on how best to protect themselves.

Just for the record, I have three kids, all of whom have lived through there teens (almost!) and seem just fine without my preaching on when to start having sex. Sex is overcharged enough in our society without adding my pressure onto them about it. It's great stuff when you don't get all bent about it.
;)

[Jose Diablo]

197. I wonder if bovine growth hormone being used on dairy cows

to increase milk production could be a factor in girls maturing too fast.

[bemildred]

199. Yippee. Two hundred post thread. nt

[symbolman]

202. Somewhere in this world

there's a woman having a child every 15 to 30 seconds..

Now we have to FIND that WOMAN AND STOP HER...

Kids are going to have sex, if you think they won't you might as well tell them to stop breathing and then get mad at them when they don't turn blue and die.

EDUCATION is the key. Number one, STDs Kiddies. Scare the shit out of them, show them penises that look like a Turtle. Use a BIG SCREEN.

Number 2, HE just wants to get laid. As a matter of fact he won't give a shit about you once he's got what he wanted. Just works that way, sometimes for the big boys too.. "Well, hon, that was great.. could you make me a sandwich?" Usually in cases like this the sandwich making takes longer than the sex.

Number 3, Ever seen Cottage Cheese being made guys? Remember STDs take many forms and everyone can get them.

Number 4, One of your coaches is gay, can you guess which one? And the funny part is, everyone thought it was the Art Teacher!

Number 5, "Dear sweet daughter, can you do me a favor and take this pill so you won't get pregnant?"

"But mom, this is only an asprin.."

"Just hold it between your knees whenever you get the urge.."

Number 6, I could go on like this all night, but it all boils down to EDUCATION, physical/psychological..