Woman kicked off SW Airlines flight for wearing anti Bush shirt

[Caoimhe]

Oregon woman kicked off flight in Reno over offensive shirt

*snip* The shirt had pictures of members of the Bush Administration, and a phrase based on the movie "Meet the Fockers," but with one crucial vowel changed. *snip*

http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3939788&nav=8faO


:headbang:

[JanMichael]

1. You know what? I am glad. Not because it was anti-Bush but because

of the word "fuckers."

I am so sick of in your face bad manners these days....that shirt was/is offensive to many people even if they think Bush is a prick.

Stephanie

[Connie_Corleone]

3. On edit.

My bad. I thought it still said Fockers. Well, then I agree with the decision by Southwest Airlines.

[JanMichael]

7. "with one crucial vowel change."

I don't think it said "Fockers." I am aware of the movie.

[crispini]

9. Nope, it said "fuckers"

read the news story again.

[Debau2005]

12. Regardless

It is not up to the Airlines to be the morality police. I find the tight short shorts, with words on the ass offensive, but yet they are allowed to board and fly.

[JanMichael]

18. Did you complain?

This woman had complaints from other customers. It something is really offensive to you, complain about it.

Seriously--

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

250. Do you really believe what bothered them was the use of a curse word?

It was political. The cursing was just a pretext.

[Zhade]

281. I believe the same, but it can't be proven.

Too bad there wasn't another passenger wearing a "fuck the Democrats" shirt - then we'd know for sure.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

319. I concur. (nt)

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

352. Gee, what dya think would have happened if somebody

had a t shirt aimed at the Democrats?

:sarcasm:

One thing to send a school kid home to change over something like that, another to kick a paying customer off an airplane.

Were these folks as deeply offended by what FU said to Leahy on the Senate floor?

What a world.

Funny thing is the more you try to ban things in a self-righteous way, not referring to anyone here on the blog, the more many people want to rebel and do it.

I'm convinced that the quantity of that kinda language goes up everytime a right wingnut wants to ban it.

[Amonester]

402. Ummm... Just gave me an idea... A Golden Opportunity in...

making T-Shirts for a living... THX!!!

:evilgrin:

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

409. Good luck, hope it works!

[toopers]

480. The woman was given options . . .

she was told she could turn her shirt inside out and still ride the plane, or she could get off the plane. She chose to get off the plane and the bitch and moan that the airline kicked her off. I have young children that I work hard to properly raise. This kind of "in your face" vulgarity is not needed in public.

[JanMichael]

291. Baloney. You just WANT it to be that way, so that's how you "read" it

The t-shirt was deemed offensive, other passengers complained....it's not that big of a freaking deal for an adult to say "Oh! I AM wearing a shirt that could be offensive and cause a fight!" and put on a jacket.

This is a load of shit, and a stupid fight to pick.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

315. Let me clarify my position:

It is my firm belief that anger at the anti-Bushness of the T-shirt came first, and the realization that the person could be kicked out of the plane based on the "fuck" came later.

Why does THAT idea bother you so much, I ask?

[JanMichael]

320. And let me clarify mine: Neither you nor I have ANY idea what the real

problem was with that t-shirt. It's purely speculation.

I don't give a rat's ass if it was the message, or the curse word. The shirt was MEANT to be offensive, and when people complained...the person should have had the decency to put on a jacket.

My t-shirt says "Sweet Jesus, I hate Bill O'Reilly." I DO NOT wear it EVER where I think it might offend anyone.

It's called "manners." We could use some more of those on public transportation.

[IowaGuy]

349. hmmm, hysterical rant full of cursing...

preaching that we need to have more manners.....
uh....do you have a mirror?

[Megahurtz]

350. I think you hit the nail on the head. n/t

[JanMichael]

356. It's so nice that you can tell the difference between different public....

...places.

Of course most people are oblivious to propriety and how the space that they occupy at different times, places and mediums, dictate certain changes in general attitudes and behavior.

Sort of like the difference in atmosphere that one experiances at a strip joint versus a Library.

I applaud your superior perception and good graces:-)

[readmoreoften]

412. Yes you certainly are superior, aren't you?

Propriety and gentility is important WHEN YOUR COUNTRY HAS BEEN OVERTAKEN BY A GREEDY, IMCOMPETENT, BLOOD-THIRSTY CABAL. Good to know you have your priorities in order.

I have different priorities.

[BlueIris]

414. Hee. I think I love you.

GOD. Some people really need to toughen up.

[JanMichael]

418. I agree completely that we've been taken over by troglodytes.

Or fascists, or assholes, or theocratic corpos, that is, my fine feathered friend, not the point.

My priorities are the complete and thorough over-throw of crony Capitalism and I'm not a "Fabian" if'n ya' get ma point.

My priorities are fine, yours however seem in need of tune-up. Wait not your priorities, your sense of proportions and relativity.

Ciao.

[CAcyclist]

486. What I want to know is - where do I get that t-shirt?

Because I'll wear it in public, too.

[dhaight]

502. Ditto!!!!

:wtf: is the problem with wearing a t-shirt with foul language. People use the word. People use the gesture. It's not like kids haven't heard it before. Turn it into a learning experience, explain to your kids that the t-shirt might not be the best thing to wear in all public places, BUT that everyone has a right to do what they want in this country, for now, that is. What's wrong with someone wearing their feelings on their sleeves? If you don't like what it says, well, don't look at it again. I don't care what anyone says, this was politcally motivated ... it wasn't the "foul" language that got this lady booted off the plane.

[IowaGuy]

506. Perhaps I'm an oblivious inferior simpleton in your eyes, and I'm..........

not disputing your perception. Your entitled to it...my perception is (if it really mattered to you) the manners you display at the worst of times is who you really are....everything else is phony manipulation, time and place are irrelevant.

[readmoreoften]

411. That's a hoot.

If you don't EVER wear it where it MIGHT offend someone, what's the point of having an anti-conservative shirt? So other liberals will pat you on the back for how liberal you are?

People who aren't afraid to STAND FOR SOMETHING... now that's something we need even more than manners in America.

[donheld]

454. "I DO NOT wear it EVER where I think it might offend anyone."

So you only preach to the choir?

[Speed8098]

474. "The shirt was MEANT to be offensive"

Yes, yes it was. And your point is???

You see, that's the whole premise behind free speech. What you find offensive, I may find funny. What you find funny, I may find offensive.

Who would you like to have make that decision for you?
An airline, a mall security guard, maybe a waitress/waiter can tell you what's offensive.

"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
I don't know who said it, I think it might have been Thomas Jefferson, but I may be wrong.

Anyone who tries to oppress free speech needs to visit someplace like Saudia Arabia, or some such country where freedom of speech or expression is not allowed.

Here's a thought. If you see something that offends you, LOOK THE OTHER WAY!!!!!!!!

Jeez, some people just don't get it.

[Speed8098]

475. "The shirt was MEANT to be offensive"

Yes, yes it was. And your point is???

You see, that's the whole premise behind free speech. What you find offensive, I may find funny. What you find funny, I may find offensive.

Who would you like to have make that decision for you?
An airline, a mall security guard, maybe a waitress/waiter can tell you what's offensive.

"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
I don't know who said it, I think it might have been Thomas Jefferson, but I may be wrong.

Anyone who tries to oppress free speech needs to visit someplace like Saudi Arabia, or some such country where freedom of speech or expression is not allowed.

Here's a thought. If you see something that offends you, LOOK THE OTHER WAY!!!!!!!!

Jeez, some people just don't get it.

Click here to go back to the main forums.

[toopers]

481. Yes, but you can be offensive to the right . . .

and not be vulgar. There are many other ways to deliver the message and actually attract dissenters. The reason this bothers me is that there was no regard for the unintended audience, children. If she wears this shirt to an adults only event or place, more power to her.

[misternormal]

507. Hello!!!!!!!!

It got press... Maybe... just maybe that's the point... That people will go to that length to get the word out that bush IS a fucker.

[Speed8098]

476. "The shirt was MEANT to be offensive"

Yes, yes it was. And your point is???

You see, that's the whole premise behind free speech. What you find offensive, I may find funny. What you find funny, I may find offensive.

Who would you like to have make that decision for you?
An airline, a mall security guard, maybe a waitress/waiter can tell you what's offensive.

"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
I don't know who said it, I think it might have been Thomas Jefferson, but I may be wrong.

Anyone who tries to oppress free speech needs to visit someplace like Saudi Arabia, or some such country where freedom of speech or expression is not allowed.

Here's a thought. If you see something that offends you, LOOK THE OTHER WAY!!!!!!!!

Jeez, some people just don't get it.

[marshall]

483. Purposely offensive

I agree that the shirt was meant to be offensive, and the wearer got exactly what she wanted. When I was teaching school I always wondered why kids who wore strange clothing or had a freaky haircut would take umbrage at being stared at. I always asked them, didn't you EXPECT to be noticed and stared at when you put that on?

[Klapaucius]

385. Offensive....

If you find something so offensive that you have to pick a fight because of it, you have anger issues....

Whatever happened to minding your own damn business?

K.

[donheld]

455. Your correct. This is a stupid fight to pick.

There's no proof whether the F-bomb or the Bush bomb was the problem. Until we get that proof i'll side with the airline.

[Realityhack]

457. "and cause a fight!"?!?

WTF? If some idiot started a fight over it they would be commiting assult.

I actualy agree on it being a good idea to go along with covering it up/whatever...
Aparently she DID but whatever was used 'fell off'

but "cause a fight" thats way over the top.

[proud2BlibKansan]

496. I believe you nailed it

This is not about the word but the 'theme' of the shirt, IMO.

[readmoreoften]

387. Yeah, lets complain about every thing that offends us!

Why stop at short-shorts with the brand name JUICY written on the butt? Maybe we can ban low-rise jeans and ostentatious jewelry, political t-shirts of all stripes. Let's the public display of offensive book covers and books with offensive titles. Let's ban brightly colored clothing, stockings with seams up the back, women with too much cleavage (children might be watching! gotta protect the children!) Can't forget about those FCUK (french connection brand T-shirts! Ban those too, they're too close to the f-word. Let's ban the f-word, come to think of it.

If people offend your delicate sensibilities, it is important to report them to the authorities at all times!

Personally, I'm more concerned about the Indonesian or Latin American 13 year old girls who are, most likely, paid slave wages and live in slave conditions to produce all of these t-shirts and low-rise jeans and short-shorts. Or maybe I'm just too busy to call the cops on someone who uses profane language to describe despicable fascists who abandon their countrymen during a time of crisis (Katrina, if you haven't forgotten) or who drop depleted uranium of children.

But what do I know? I'm just one of those INDECENT PROGRESSIVES. Clearly, I don't have my priorities straight.

[nvliberal]

395. If not allowing obscene slogans is in its regulations,

there's not jack shit anybody can do about it.

Sorry, this isn't a "free speech" issue.

Some people clearly don't understand common sense.

[readmoreoften]

410. How does that relate to the post I'm responding to?

My response is to the poster who is encouraging someone to 'complain' about people wearing short-shorts with words on the butts. Are shorts with words printed on them also not a 'free speech' issue?

What? Is this a fawning gesture towards the infinite wisdom of corporate censorship on DU? Does banning the word 'fuck' (in a non-sexual context at that) make you feel safer as you fly?

Frankly, I'm not as shocked by SW banning the word as much as I am by how many DUers are bending over backwards to pat themselves on their morally righteous backs for their condemnaiton of the 'naughtiness' inherent in a fellow progressive's political speech.

[crispini]

19. It's an interesting question.

Who judges what is offensive to whom?

There's a real slippery slope here IMO.....

[tx_dem41]

32. It is up to the Airlines to determine who can fly on their planes.

They made the correct decision. They tried to handle it correctly by having her cover her offensive shirt. She refused.

[me b zola]

383. I see.

The airlines can deem me appropiate if I wear pearls and say please and thank you.

What if I wear tye-dye and say please and thank you as I fly to march on DC? What if my T-shirt calls bush* a murderer, but I say please and thank you???

Bullsit. All of the apologetic responses to big business and THEIR BAD BEHAVIOR. I still live in the United States of America, even if it doesn't feel that way anymore. :(


My thought is that we aren't acting out *ENOUGH*!

[nvliberal]

396. You choose to fly on an airplane,

you are supposed to abide by the airline's rules and regulations.

You are wrong, and I think you know it.

[me b zola]

415. LOL

"You are wrong, and I think you know it." You gave me a morning laugh. No, I am dead serious, but thank you for telling me what I believe, mom.

The article did not say that wearing a profane word on your clothing was against the rules. Additionally, you & I both know that the complaints were not about the word 'fucker', it was about the political commentary that the shirt made.

I am often offended by what other people are wearing, but I am not so arrogant as to demand that they remove what offends me. What if it had been a "club gitmo" shirt? Me, I would have publicly shamed the person wearing it by mocking them. I am offended by "W" hats, and bush/cheney t-shirts, but who am I to demand that they be removed?

"Feel free to move about the country" is a slogan that Southwest uses. Obviously you are free to do so as long as you fit the "right" mold. Pfft. I'll be using another airline for my next trip.

[okieinpain]

324. I don't think they let them on if the clothing is offensive.

[nvliberal]

398. Of course it's offensive,

and not because of the anti-Bush nature of the shirt.

The woman clearly doesn't any goddamned sense whatsoever.

[jarnocan]

388. Overall it's great though! NICE TV news clip!

the article and the TV news clip -are quite nice. she comes off as a very pleasant opionated, NOT brash, a positive image.
I saw that shirt on people in WDC. I wear by Impeach Bush shirt (I sell them at no or very little mark -up on Cafe-press base price)
I am sure some people who attended the WDC thing must have worn political shirts on flights. Has anyone else had a problem?
It is to bad the shirt didn't just have a line through the o and the u above or something.
Her shirt has been seen by lots of people NOW and IMHO that over all is a good thing.

Oh I was asked to remove the bullpic once on-line because of the BS (actually DS)http://www.cafepress.com/nobszone

[Ladyhawk]

400. People who are offended by use of a "curse" word are offensive to me.

Perhaps we should kick those people off airlines?

Debau2005 is correct. Airlines are NOT the morality police.

[Moochy]

Give me a fucking break

Oh those poor people who had to endure the shirt.

Give me a fucking break.

thats right a fucking break.

[tx_dem41]

76. Profound witticism.

:eyes:

[Moochy]

87. Snarky Linguistic Puffery + similar snarky emoticon

:wtf:

[insane_cratic_gal]

90. LOL

I got that yesterday.. Snarky Linguistic bravado. I think it's tx's trademark

[slor]

82. Amen!

was she walking around, pushing the shirt into their faces? Anything short of that, and it was a wrong decision. Maybe the offended parties should have changed planes. This is total bullshit!

[FiveGoodMen]

112. I second that!

The idea that words like that can hurt people (even children) is proof of insanity in my book.

[Mike Daniels]

162. So it would have been fine if she yelled "fuck, fuck, fuck" throughout

the flight? Same general principle if you consider that anyone walking by her probably would have been exposed to the language on the shirt.


I initially sided with the woman when I read the article but then again, businesses should be able to dictate that certain decorum be followed in their establishments.

If you choose not to follow said decorum you can find another business to patronize.

[Moochy]

186. I see a difference between written and shouted words

There is a difference between a written word on a shirt, and yelling an offensive word. At least it seems that way to me, to be a wholly different issue.

I'm not saying that she couldnt have capitulated but to be thrown off seems extreme and not to mention stupid PR.

[Zhade]

202. What if the woman hadn't worn the shirt, but quietly said "fuck bush"...

...to a friend on the flight in the middle of a political conversation?

What if two people talk throughout a flight, quietly but not whispering, saying "fuck" this and "shit" that?

Kids can hear that - even kids who can't yet read. Does the airline have the right to kick people off for speaking a swear word, rather than wearing it?

Should airline passengers learn to "watch what they say"?

See where this is going?

[Moochy]

207. Agreed, if someone is screaming "FUCK" however

Thats different than impolite conversation. I swear on planes.

Noone's ever thrown me off before.

But if someone's *screaming* "fuck" the way the other poster was indicating, then I think thats actionable by airline staff, and reasonable to expect some reaction.

[Zhade]

217. But that's the fine line - when someone get offended...

...by words and sentiments in a conversation they shouldn't be listening to anyway.

If this woman had repeatedly said "fuck bush" in a normal tone, not to anyone specifically or perhaps to a friend, and a rightwinger got offended, could it lead to the airline censoring the passenger's speech because of the swears?

What would happen if the speech was altered to say "bush is a focker" (to use the given example)? Someone could (willfully?) misinterpret that as "fucker".

I just don't like where this could lead.

[cascadiance]

339. What if this image was on the t-shirt with photoshopping...

to say "Impeach the Fockers!" and with Bush admin faces put on instead of movie actors. It might be a copyright violation, but I can't see that it's any more offensive than if they wore a "Meet the Fockers" t-shirt with the original picture on it:



... except for bruised egos of some RW'ers out there!

[FlaGranny]

269. Never could understand the

love and fascination for that word. I use it occasionally, but only when I'm really, really angry, and usually in private. If I use it constantly, what do I do if I really get angry?

Why do people love to use that word? Because they LIKE to shock and insult people. That's why.

My cousin was once married to a man that used the word several times in every sentence that left his mouth. He was a total embarrassment to be around.

Mmaybe I'm just old fashioned.

[Zhade]

290. *I* use the word, andf I DON'T do it to shock or insult.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't assume things about people that you aren't correct about.

[LanternWaste]

330. Something my grandfather told me once...

Something my grandfather told me once...

"You see a person who uses foul language and you can safely assume that person is either ignorant or wants to be noticed"

Maybe he's right, maybe he's not... but I usually assume that a person who uses foul language in public as a habit doesn't really or care about tolerance and respect (unless it's convenient).

There's simply a lack of civility that pervades our culture and course language is but one (of many) indications of that.

[petronius]

227. The airline would have every right to ask them to moderate their language

Hopefully, where this is going is a more courteous society. :)

Personally, I feel strongly about free speech, but freedom of expression doesn't mean 'anything, anywhere, anywhen'. Logical or not, there are cultural mores that dictate what behavior is or is not acceptable in various circumstances, and the airline and other passengers have the right to expect customers to live up to at least the bare minimum of polite behavior...

[Zhade]

233. Let's push the example, then.

Suppose the woman DID whisper "fuck bush", so only her friend could hear it - but a rightwinger happened to overhear it by chance, in a lull in the normal cabin noise or something?

Suppose he then reported the "offense" - which he shouldn't have really been able to hear, and was in no way his business or directed at anyone but her friend. Would the airline be justified in asking the woman to not WHISPER a swear word?

Seems ridiculous, but think about the implications.

[petronius]

260. The airline would have a right to request that passengers

not expose other passengers to speech and behaviors that are generally considered obscene or inappropriate. The airline has the responsibility of judging when a passenger crosses the line, and the airline's decision is certainly subject to later scrutiny. If the airline over-reacts, then the passenger who was treated unfairly would/should have legal recourse, and the airline would also likely be punished in the market (court of public opinion, so to speak).

I'm not really sure what the point is of 'pushing the example' - are you just wanting to define a line where behavior becomes socially inappropriate? You're example isn't what happened, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that any flight attendant would laugh at your hypothetical RWer. In fact, I'd bet that the airline (or any business) would err on the side of not interfering with a person's behavior (until it became dangerous or particularly egregious). In this case, the airlines first choice was not to expel the woman - that was her choice after she rejected several reasonable compromises.

Really, I don't see the "implications" that you are worried about...

[Zhade]

266. I'm obviously not explaining it well, then.

How does the airline decide that a *private* conversation is "obscene" or "inappropriate"?

I think the implications are clear: if a flight is freeper-heavy, and maybe a flight attendant or two is freeper-friendly, a case could arise wherein an overheard anti-b*s* conversation could be turned into a kick-the-liberal-off-the-flight situation.

[petronius]

312. I understand what you're hypothesizing

but I think that is the kind of case that I was referring to when I said that the airlines actions would be subject to scrutiny and censure.

I think there is a constant tension between over-regulation of behavior and the tolerance of 'inappropriate' behavior - it is out of this push and pull that community standards are created and modified. When parties err to far in either direction, then other societal mechanisms (like the courts) come in to play.

In the current situation, I think the passenger erred and the airline was correct to act. In your situation, I would consider that the airline erred in the opposite direction, and I would expect later review to correct the mistake.

(This may be a bit incoherent, but I have to run to class...)

[Klapaucius]

386. How did she err?

The airlines function is to transport people from point A to point B, in exchange for money. It is not to monitor for things which could be offensive to the little old lady in seat 15b, and kick the offender off, nor is it to take offense at a political statement that people disagree with. That's what I find so completely appalling. That being said....I have found that of the folks that I know, the democratic ones, seem to have a live and let live philosophy. The right-leaning ones, they tend not to be quite as tolerant.

That woman paid for the right to travel from point A to point B, she paid her money, she took her seat. That should be the end of it. If she were being disruptive, running up and down the aisles and shouting 'fuck' at the top of her lungs, then I might be inclined to agree, but I would think if she was just going to sit in her seat and maybe go to the restroom once or twice, then there is no reason for her to be removed from the plane.

Also, for those of you with children..... ( and I am a father, btw, who up until the past year, has spent rather large amounts of time and money to spend time with my son, who now lives primarily with his mother, and is putting down roots there ). You cannot protect your children all the time. If you completely protect them or dominate their lives until they're 18, they will be completely unprepared for the world. Children need to understand that there are differences of opinion between people, and that it sometimes makes other people angry. They also need to understand that it's not worth getting into a fight over.

Here's my point...... You *DO NOT* have a right to not be offended. I find things offensive every single day of the week. I spent several years in tech support and corporate helpdesk work, so I am rather sensitive to what I would consider polite and not polite. That being said, I think people have gotten more and more rude in the past decade, and probably for far longer than that. Retail people, especially, but I understand that's likely in response to everyone else being rude.

Also, as an aside....I tend to be rather outspoken in some of my views, amongst my friends. In particular, my disgust with organized religion. I have one friend who's waiting for the earth to open under my feet one of these days. While not being quite as in your face as AAR's Marc Maron regarding religion, I do understand and share some of the frustration that he has regarding the behavior of folks who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus. I can count on the fingers of one hand the people who I know who seem to walk the walk, as opposed to just talking the talk.

If you truly want to support equality for all people, then you have to take the good with the bad. Otherwise, this puts you in the position of determining who is a first class citizen and who is a second class citizen. Is that a distinction that we want to be making? I was a second class citizen for a while, I did my time in the service. I find nothing wrong with the woman's shirt, and I probably would've chuckled when I saw it, because I agree with the sentiment. Maybe even asked her where she got it... Yes, I know that the person is on this thread, and I'm late to the thread, anyway.



K.

[nvliberal]

403. What a strawman "argument."

This isn't a free speech issue. The woman chose to wear a shirt with an obscene message, and the word "fuck," contrary to some posters who obviously use it as part of their daily vocabulary, IS obscene, and it was in violation of the airline's regulations.

You make a choice to get on a plane. By doing so you agree to abide by the airline's rules.

The airline has the right to serve whoever it wants (except in cases where it is clear discrimination) and can deny people using their services when the regulations are violated.

This isn't rocket science, people. You don't need to be a lawyer to see that there is no "case" here to be made.

[TX-RAT]

210. but to be thrown off

That was her decision.

[DiverDave]

353. My 7 year old can read

and I'd prefer that he doesn't read that sort of language.

So what do you think of that?

I should just let it go?

I think not, I applaud SW.

[Obamarama]

389. At 7 he's probably reading it and/or hearing it at school....

He might even be using it. SHOCK! GASP!

[DiverDave]

392. So, you know my Son?

He wouldn't use that sort of word.

A good kid, in spite of my failings as a dad.

[Obamarama]

417. No, I don't know your son.

But I'm not so deluded to think that if I DID have a kid that I would actually use the phrase "My kid would never do that."

I was one of those "my kid would never do that" kind of kids....quiet, obedient, colored within the lines. And man, did I ever do a lot of things my parents never thought I'd "never do."

[Caoimhe]

419. yep

Me too.

Don't think your kid hasn't heard or seen the word before. You can't protect them from the world. Best to teach them that it is an offensive word to many and not to repeat it. But to tell others they can't say it or wear it because your son might see it or hear it, is weak. Perhaps you should teach your child that there are all kinds of people in the world, many who speak with colorful language that you yourself don't use, but it is THEIR RIGHT to say what is on their mind, and that is the most important thing of all.

[DiverDave]

426. OH bull!

There is a time and a place for everything.
Yes, he knows of that word, and knows we disapprove of it's use.

So, her right to show her ignorance trumps MY right to not have my children exposed to it?

Taking this a bit far IMO.

[Megahurtz]

443. "Time and a place for everything"

like maybe if someone is riding an airplane they may be on vacation and want to relax and dress comfortable and casual and be themselves?

The "my children exposed" thing is a little overboard.
Your kid will hear "fuck" in school, from the other kids, down the street etc. whether you like it or not.

It's not another person's responsibility to revolve their world around your children.
It's your responsibility.:think:

Jeez, if you don't like what you see then cover his eyes! Or tell him to look away!

Also in my opinion the more you hammer it into your kid's head that "it's such a dirty, dirty bad word"
the more he may rebel and say "fuck it" when he get's older, if you catch my drift.

[DiverDave]

465. Then, by your reasoning (?)

We can just walk around with our private parts exposed, right?

You don't have to look, you know.

Another ridicules answer.

Wearing the shirt infringes on MY RIGHTS.

So, I want to protect my children from the crap in real life.
Pretty hard for you to understand, I guess.

[Megahurtz]

489. Isn't THAT the point?

No one was walking around with their private parts exposed,
so what is the harm being done?

Think about it. You said it.:think:

[dhaight]

504. If you want to protect your kids from free expression ....

move to Kansas! :) Why in the world does someone want to protect their kids ... don't you want to expose your kids to everything imaginable????? As a parent, that's what I consider my responsibility .... prepare the child for the path, not the path for the child!

[dhaight]

503. Let It Go.... would you please

So, explain your feelings to your kids ... but do you really want your kids to experience life in a lock n' step society????

[thecrow]

357. I know of many level headed people who would be offended

if not for themselves for their children who might be flying with them; maybe they have a seven year old who has just learned to read.
Should this family's rights be crushed by another person wanting to express their freedom of speech?
I am a parent of grown up kids who might get a thrill from this now, but I doubt I would find it funny or acceptable behavior when my kids were growing up. I would find it egregious, and I'm a person who has no qualms when it comes to using a bit of vulgar language.
But I wouldn't wear a shirt like this in a contained public space.

I think the airlines made the right call by requesting the shirt be covered by a jacket and when the tee shirt person refused, to ban them from the plane. Who needs an invitation to an onboard fight at 35,000 feet? I wouldn't. They gave her an option, and she didn't take it. End of passenger.

Some people tend to get fired up after a couple drinks and that mild mannered man in A23 could become violent if that tee shirt was sitting next to him or a child. Or even if he saw someone else wearing it on his way to the loo. The airlines is a business that has to recognize and contain these issues. They own the planes; they own the liability for what goes on in the planes.

********************

~The toughest challenge of living in a democracy is to respect the freedom
of other people to live according to values that are not your own.
~David Batstone

on edit: spelling.

[Klapaucius]

425. can I steal that quote? I like it!

n/t

[KyndCulture]

146. It's THIS shirt... and I sold it to her.... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[crispini]

154. SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!

That is TOO AWESOME! :rofl:

[KyndCulture]

163. This made my damn day!!! I'm sending her a free shirt of her choice!

I confirmed the names on my credit card slips, it's her alrighty and a I made it. ooooh I'm dangerous with photoshop! lol

My graphics got someone kicked off a plane.. OMG.... :rofl: I can't stop laughing...

[Spazito]

181. Way to GO!! Congrats!

I agree, a free t-shirt is a great idea for her, she has earned it, no question about it!!

[Lone_Star_Dem]

212. Congratulations!

I like the T-shirt.

Mine doesn't look exactly like that. It has large red lettering across the top that says "Meet The Fuckers" and a pic of bush* and Cheney below smiling and waving.

I like yours better. :)

[understandinglife]

314. Simply rocking!!! Congrats!!!

Peace.

[indigo32]

323. ROTFLMAO

Good Job!

[Megahurtz]

158. Hahahahahahaha!!!

:spray:

"Oh....ooooooooooo........my virgin eyes!"

:sarcasm:

[darkism]

223. I hope you sell many more with this newfound publicity!

:headbang::applause:

[cascadiance]

340. I would like to see if "Impeach the Fockers" could be acceptable...

Keep the "o" in the name so it's not too obvious, but by having "Impeach the Fockers" with a row of Bush people in a similar pose as that on the movie poster would be a cool parody of the movie and send out a very cool message about what we want to happen!

[Caoimhe]

6. um...

Last I knew.. there was no "right" not to be offended.

Seems pretty harmless to me.

[tx_dem41]

16. Last I knew there was no right to fly on a Southwest airplane.

Given the word on the t-shirt...I support their decision.

[sui generis]

33. who cares about poo poo words

good grief this isn't kindergarten

We routinely say "that sucks" and can proudly wear it on a t-shirt, referring directly to the act of participating in a kielbasa gobbling contest.

We are SUCH prudes.

[tx_dem41]

40. Wearing a shirt that says "fuckers" on it is kindergarten.

It says a lot about the person that wears it...especially around children.

[JanMichael]

48. I was agreeing with you right to that point. Please leave the "precious

children" argument out of this one. I don't have kids, and don't give a damn what the little darlings see or don't see.

We are talking about adults that can't figure out how to dress.

[sui generis]

56. agreed. So why do we get to treat them like children

and tell them what they can and can't wear? Why do words concerning reproductive processes elicit more passion than words concerning supporting illegal wars in which real people are really killed?

You're entitled to your opinion about that person, but I find the W'04 sticker and Support Traditional Marriage stickers 100 times more offensive than the use of the word FUCK as either a noun, adjective or verb.

I'm all in favor of hitting those cars with a swiveling gigantic laser cannon in traffic and vaporizing them on the spot.

:P

[Moochy]

88. get with the repressive nanny-state program

It's working in TX i guess right?

[sui generis]

98. I confess in addition to cursing like a sailor

I also skinny dip in my pool, and answer the door to Jehovah's Witnesses completly naked, and occasionally somewhat excited.

I thought it would make them go run screaming away but I just got even more coming now.

:evilfrown:

[Moochy]

107. Jehovah's Witnessed your Johnson ??

:evilgrin:

[Judi Lynn]

129. Don't make them resort to lobbing a rock with the Watchtower wrapped

around it through your window. That could get costly.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

187. THE WATCHTOWER? hmmmmm n/t

[petronius]

234. EEEwwww...

sounds like they got a little more tower than they bargained for.

[JugDack]

216. Amen!!! Bravo! Exactly!

Not sure about the laser thing, but I'm really getting sick of the "we must protect children from everything" nonsense. Good grief! You think they haven't seen/used that word already? What does it teach them that we're okay with them seeing all kinds of brutal violence, but not normal body functions?

There is no such thing as a bad word.

[KyndCulture]

331. AGREED!

People trying to shelter little susie and johnnie from the word fuck are sorely out of touch with reality... if they are in school guarandamnteed another kid has said the word FUCK to them at least once and probably explained how it all works too!

[Nostradammit]

95. How'z about "Go fuck yourself" on the floor of the senate?

Should Dick be kicked out of there for that?

He wasn't, was he?

[Cha]

143. HEY, thanks for the reminder..

it's okay for the goose but not the gander.

[mbperrin]

178. Nope, he wasn't. In fact, the next day, he said it made him

feel good and it was the right thing to do.

So Southwest Airlines is now officially more decorous than the US Senate?

The fuck you say!

[petronius]

239. But thinking back to that episode

didn't most of us feel that he should have been censured for his piss-poor behavior? I know I did...

Cheney was out of line, and so was this woman - the difference is that SWA has more spine than the republican leadership when it comes to standing up for common courtesy.

[Moochy]

294. Do you recognize any difference

.. between the two separate environments social expectations?

The Senate Floor

SW Air flight

[petronius]

299. I recognize lots of differences between the two

but I also recognize that there are behaviors that are unacceptable in both environments. An SWA flight (in my mind) would call for a much lower level of decorum than the Senate, but it would require more decorum than, say, a locker room or a bar. For example, last time I visited DC I was told to remove my hat on the tour of the Senate chamber (or maybe it was the House); that's never happened on SWA...

Just because Place A has higher standards than Place B, we can't assume that Place B has no standards.

[Moochy]

306. Now if Cheney had opened his dress shirt

and revealed a "go Fuck yourself Leahy" T-shirt..

Sorry I know that wasnt relevant :) and thanks for that thoughtful response.

peace

[petronius]

344. That post title gave me an awful mental image!

Cheney flashing his goodies...:puke:

I am so glad you put a T-shirt on the Dick in your example! :)

[enlightenment]

322. Decorum in the Senate? hmm.

More like no one is ever there.
Have you read "Affairs of Honor: National Politics in the new Republic" by Joanne Freeman? An interesting look at the decided lack of decorum in Congress -- and I think it made for a much better political process.

[Sin]

145. So do you say.

White meat or dark when you are talking about the breast,thigh of a chicken or turkey around children who knows they may just start saying it one day in public or give them wicked ideas about parts of the anatomy.

What makes words dirty is the public perception of them eventually to take the power from them they will be used all the time. there all just words all equally dirty so you might as well start to ban dictionary's

[tx_dem41]

185. Whatever.

:eyes:

[Moochy]

211. I used to get in trouble for saying "whatever"

I'd get smacked by my parents for saying "whatever" it was offensive to them. I got kicked off a plane once for saying it.

Another valuable contribution!!

[Caoimhe]

272. I just snarfed a bunch of my soda across the room...

laughing at that post!

My mom used to get really pissed if we said "pissed". I never understood why.

Other bad words/phrases from my (lower) middle class childhood:

-I'm SO SURE - (mom hated that one with a passion)
-BFD (mom found out from someone at church that the big logo shirts her oldest son was so fond of.. meant BIG FUCKING DEAL)
-SHIT (this was okay for adults but only if they hurt themselves somehow)
-PUSSY (cats were called cats, NOT pussies)


:headbang: I say, in tribute to my awesome oldest brother, BFD! :headbang:

[Terran]

57. A lot of people care

and it doesn't make them Bush supporters, automatically. It's simply rude to be sporting that word on a t-shirt to a captive audience on a plane. If people complained they had every right to do so, and the airline had the right to eject her if she refused to abide by their rules. If it were my airline I'd have the same rule.

[sui generis]

62. I really don't care about poo poo words

sorry to put it in those terms.

It's slang for our reproductive processes - again, I repeat, we are SUCH prudes.

If it were my airline I'd ask her to wear a cover up, as I would to someone who wore a Support Bush T-Shirt, and someone who had an Eat Bush T-shirt.

[Terran]

74. It's not about prudishness

It's about civility and consideration for other peoples' feelings. As a progressive I'm sure you can relate to that, can you not? It's the original definition of "politically correct". "Poo poo" words are in the same class as racial and ethnic epithets--using them is, at best, rude.

[sui generis]

91. oh now you done did it

I am offended by your hair / nose ring / green eyes. Please remove yourself from my august, easily offended presence.

:P

We are ONLY responsible for our own "feelings". My progressiveness is not and never will be in question. Rudeness is in the eye of the beholder. If I wear an "I love queers" rainbow t-shirt, it would be TASTELESS but that's not a crime. It would offend some uptight "family" people, and probably some of us too, and some loon would think throwing me off the airplane was justified.

I completely disagree with "fuck" being in the same class as racial and ethnic epithets - you're a bit off base there.

There are lots of "rude" things I can find to be outraged at every day. Wearing white after labor day for instance. Lacey butt floss and flab sticking out of some guido's dark root blonde gal's low riders on the White Trash Cannonball to Vegas offends me.

"I support George Bush" is qualitatively worse than "Meet the Fuckers" with a picture of Bush & Co. on it. Why do we have to cater to prudes who think sex and anything that refers to it is the only bad thing in the world?

(rotates head on neck, vomits green glorp, cackles madly)

[Zhade]

171. And that's the thing - *I* wouldn't find the "queers" shirt offensive.

I wouldn't even find it tasteless - I'm queer, and I would love that kind of shirt.

Yet others would think SW would be justified in throwing you off the plane for that.

Who gets to decide what is offensive?

[Moochy]

183. Glad you brought that up

I don't find the word queer offensive either, and was going to bring up the "community standards" part of this question of what's offensive.

Who gets to decide is who owns the plane I guess. :shrug:

[Zhade]

204. See post #194 downthread.

It's another take on the "offensive" issue.

[tx_dem41]

205. In this case, SWA does. Its their plane. n/t

[Terran]

298. There's us foul-mouthed left-wing pinkos and then there's the rest

of America. Come on, now, I think you're trying to paint this situation as a lot more relativistic than it is. Not all rudeness is in the eye of the beholder. Some things are simply not considered polite by the standards of the vast majority, irrespective of party or cultural affiliation, and "fuck" is one of those things, and so is calling someone a "wetback" or a "kike" or other similar words. I never meant to imply that racial epithets are in the same "class" as profanity, I just meant that for most people, you simply don't go around uttering such words in public. In that sense, they have something in common.

There's a huge difference between what you say you find distasteful (which is really what you're talking about, not what is "offensive"), and what is considered unpardonably rude by the vast majority of Americans. I'm sorry, but you may, as an individual, find lacey butt floss and Republican bumperstickers "offensive", but that's nothing like the consensus of tens of millions of people on the word "fuck". Believe me, you are outnumbered.

[Zhade]

166. Are you seriously arguing that "fuck" is as bad as "n*****"?

NT!

[Terran]

284. No.

That word, IMO, is in a class by itself, and has no truly analogous insult in the English language. And anyway, I'm not really "comparing" profanity with racial epithets at all, except to the extent of saying that neither are acceptable for public use. I think there's a strong societal consensus on that at this point.

[Zhade]

288. Really?

As I noted elsewhere, "ass" - once banned from tv - is now on prime-time network shows.

I hear all manner of swear words at sporting events - and LOTS of kids are around at those.

I don't think your societal consensus is as strong as you paint it.

However, I am glad you don't consider "fuck" to be the same as a racial slur. That would have worried me.

[Terran]

311. Well, the consensus is certainly changing

Only thing, these days it's driven by what's on TV. I often find myself asking the TV, "When did it become okay to say 'ass' on the tube?" But you have to admit, there are many many more situations where a level of civility is demanded, where you will never hear the word "fuck". To me, an airplane is certainly one of those. Captive audience in a constricted space, people already maybe in a bad mood for any number of reasons related to flying. In such a setting, there's a certain rigidity of behavior that has to be, and is traditionally followed, to maintain the peace in what is really a somewhat precarious situation, if you think about it. A sporting event could not be more different from that--loud, chaotic, full of testosterone, it's made for cursing.

[SusanF_CA]

84. So what you are saying

is if I get on a plane wearing a shirt that supports progressive/liberal causes and it just so happens that the plane is full of neo-cons and the airline is owned by conservatives and there are complaints that I should be tossed off or is it only if one of the 7? bad words is on the shirt. Gee I love living in a free country!

[JugDack]

224. There is no such thing as a "bad word"!

What is rude about the word "fuck"? Haven't you heard it a million times? Why does it trouble you so? The very fact of your discomfort is why people use it. It only has the power you give it.

[Moochy]

229. Exactly

The discomfort is socially conditioned puritannical bullshit.

How about these poor victims of profanity explain to their children that they dont like that word, and dont use it. Their children, being smart little people like them, will understand that if they use the word, their mouths will be washed out with soap.

[blueintenn]

437. In a perfect world, yes

But we don't live in one. I would not subject a homosexual person to a 'faggot' shirt, a Jewish Holocaust survivor to a 'kike' shirt, an African-American to a 'nigger' shirt, etc.

Yes, I am aware these are all racial slurs and not run-of-the-mill expletives like 'fuck'. But if "there is no such thing as a bad word" (your quote) then are you ok with the three examples above? Because I am not. And if it were my airline, I would have told her, "Look, to me, the shirt is funny as hell. But we've asked you several times to do something about it and you're apparently hell-bent on making a statement. So you can make it, but not on my plane. Now here's your money. Get off."

BIT

[blueintenn]

434. So all words are ok to put on a shirt and wear in public?

What if I wore a shirt that said "Meet the Niggers" on it and had a picture of Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell and Rod Paige? That wouldn't be too well-received, nor should it be.

People are too quick to dismiss manners as outdated anachromisms that are no longer relevant. I disagree with that notion.

BIT

[Book Lover]

177. You buy a ticket, you have a de facto contract

Where in the back of the ticket is there a dress code?

[tx_dem41]

208. You wanna make a bet that on the back of that ticket it states that..

SWA reserves the right to remove you from a plane for infringement of their rules? You're right...it is a contract. Better read that fine print you agreed to when you bought it.

In fact, here is what you agreed to (look at the top of page 10)...

http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/coc.pdf

Thanks for bringing up the contract concept.

[Zhade]

242. Scenario: person with Tourette's syndrome who can't control his swearing.

Can he be denied flight?

What if he WHISPERS all those swears?

[tx_dem41]

248. Ummm...that is covered in the "NOTE" related to item 1 that I ..

referenced. It pays to read.

[Moochy]

Just to facilitate the discussion

and not to add to the FUCKING snark factor...

I've copied from the PDF, the section that SWA is probably using to justify her being booted from the plane.

F. Comfort and Safety - Carrier may refuse to transport or remove from the aircraft at any
point any passenger in the following categories as may be necessary for the comfort or
safety of such passenger or other passengers:

(1) Persons whose conduct is or has been known to be disorderly, abusive, offensive,
threatening, intimidating, or violent, or whose clothing is lewd, obscene, or patently
offensive;
NOTE: Carrier will not refuse to provide transportation to a qualified individual with
a disability solely because the individual’s disability results in appearance or
involuntary behavior that may offend, annoy, or inconvenience crew members or other
passengers.
(2) Persons who are barefoot and over five (5) years of age, unless caused or necessitated
by a disability;

[tx_dem41]

259. Thanks for doing that...

:)

[Moochy]

262. hey any time

Alot of people's computers crash when they click pdf links :)

[Arkana]

329. OK, so they won't throw a 500 lb woman off a plane

for wearing neon pink hot pants, but they'll throw off someone wearing an anti-Bush shirt that says "Meet The Fuckers" because some puritanical blowhard was offended????

Edit for grammar.

[Zhade]

270. I read it. Clearly, I missed it.

Your snark is not required when a simple oversight happens.

[tx_dem41]

271. You're right. I apologize.

Sorry. You didn't deserve it, and I shouldn't have added the snark, regardless.

[Zhade]

275. It's okay, thou art forgiven.

:P

[dretceterini]

358. You don't have the right to forgive.

Only George Bush (AKA God) does }(

[nvliberal]

381. Send that link to Bernie Ward of KGO.

He thinks this is such a huge deal.

I can't believe how dense he is sometimes.

[kikiek]

20. Unless they were concerned that a fight would break out in flight.

Those RW'ers tend to be pretty expolosive. I think she should be able to wear whatever she wants, but if safety was the issue I'd understand.

[sui generis]

68. lowest common denominator

And if Bushistas decided they were offended by the color blue we'd all have to wear red? I don't think so.

I'd just add that all political messages and national brand logo t-shirts, backpacks, stickers, ball caps need to be covered up. Kind of like some elementary and highschools require these days.

[hamsterjill]

64. They need to look away

If they have a "right" to be offended, then they have a "right" to look away. The airlines don't need to start being the morality police.

Aren't there more important battles in the world as it is than something this lame?

[RedEarth]

17. I agree.....

[Midlodemocrat]

29. I agree with you, Stephanie.

I myself have a pretty foul mouth at times, but some people are really offended by that word and if I were on that plane with my kids, I would definitely be offended. I think an adult wearing that shows a little lack of judgment.

[JugDack]

230. WHY?????

C'mon, please tell me why that word offends you so? Is it really your plan to try to prevent children from hearing it?? Good luck!

[Midlodemocrat]

238. Oh, C'mon.

It isn't my place nor yours to introduce profanity to anyone's child, and wearing on a tee shirt in public does just that. Not just kids, either, there are plenty of people who are offended by profanity of any type. My next door neighbor has never uttered a curse word in his life.

The 'in your face' profanity is ridiculous and frankly profanity of any type lowers the caliber of your argument.

[Zhade]

243. See post #202 upthread - what about that situation?

NT!

[Midlodemocrat]

254. I don't think that is the same situation.

If two people are whispering and someone overhears their conversation and overhears profanity, the effort to keep their voices low and refrain from anyone overhearing is a polite gesture.

Wearing a shirt on a plane with profanity is just OTT to me. You could easily get your point across without that word.

And, believe me, I have said that word plenty.

I wonder how the people who are defending her would react if their four year old read it and started saying it? Would they be okay with that? Using profanity in public is a crime in some states. What if the four year old read it and then asked at dinner "what does fuck mean, mommy?". How would they react then?

Some people prefer to avoid all cursing at all, and it seems to me that a shirt with 'fuck' on it would definitely be offensive to them.

[Zhade]

274. I'm aware that is not what happened.

I was asking about a hypothetical.

And just so you know, I'm not defending anyone - I'm exploring the topic.

If my son asked me that questioned, I'd be honest: it's a word grown-ups use. MOST use. To me, it's not offensive unless as part of a larger verbal assault. And no, he couldn't say it until he got older, because when it comes to him and swearing I'm a bleeding hypocrite.

:P

[JugDack]

264. C'mon what?

First of all, what's profane? Who judges? Does your neighbor say "darn"? "Fudge"? "Shoot"? Do you have an approved list we all can follow? Is "hooters" on it? How about "Christian Soldier"? Talk about offensive!

No one is "introducing profanity" (I love the sound of that - like we're sticking them with a profanity-laced syringe) to anyone. I guarantee if those kids can read that shirt they already know that word. More importantly, how is that child harmed?

[Midlodemocrat]

277. Here's an idea.

The words that can't be said on network TV are considered by a lot of people to be offensive. Just because you don't consider that word to be offensive doesn't mean they don't have the right to be offended.

A great many elderly people are offended by that word. And, frankly, I think it is simply common courtesy not to wear items with that type of profanity on it. Wearing it at the march is one thing, but wearing it around the general public could be construed by some as offensive.

[Zhade]

280. NYPD Blue had some of those words.

And "ass" is now prevalent on prime-time.

Standards change.

[Midlodemocrat]

282. At 10PM.

Fuck has never been on network TV. Ever.

Standards do change. There is no such thing as the 'family hour' for prime time TV anymore. Friends was certainly not child friendly, even though I absolutely loved that show.

[Zhade]

296. "Fuck has never been on network TV. Ever." Sorry, you're wrong.

http://research.yale.edu/lawmeme/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1249

The Golden Globe Awards ran on NBC in 2005.

[Midlodemocrat]

346. You know what I meant. They simply couldn't edit it out of the live

show.

[Zhade]

360. Live shows have a built-in time delay for such things.

(I should know, I work in broadcasting.)

[Midlodemocrat]

365. Then you should know that they didn't catch it in time, or

else they didn't have a delay.

Do you really think they would risk a hefty FCC fine just to say fuck?

[Zhade]

471. They had a delay, AND didn't catch it in time.

My only point was to show that you were inaccurate in saying "fuck" had never been said on network tv.

It has.

That's all I wanted to point out.

[Realityhack]

450. I totaly dissagree...

Some people are offended by me saying the president is an idiot... you going to outlaw that too? How about if some idiot says black/white/yellow/purple/whatever people should be enslaved? You going to say thats offensive so they can't say it in public?

You can chose to be offended to chose not to be just as easily as I can chose to say something or not to.

We protect freedom of speach specificaly BECAUSE people are sometimes offended by things and we want to protect the right to say those things reguardless of someones personal feelings about what is being said.

Meet the Fuckers with pictures of the administration around it is Clearly political speach.

[Megahurtz]

447. I'll answer the question,

what I think it really boils down to is a lot of people here have "issues".:crazy:

[DefenseLawyer]

37. You know what?

I don't need you to dictate for me what is and isn't offensive. Seeing someone in a shirt doesn't harm anyone. Your particular response to words on a shirt, which you are of course entitled to, may cause you discomfort but words on a shirt cannot.

[JanMichael]

42. I am not dictating to you...where in the world did you pull that from?

You are an attorney....go ahead...twist my post, and let's see if you can really do this.

How would your firm feel if you wore something innapropriate to court? ahhh you say....that's different; I am representing a corporation that hired me, or a client who hired me...a more formal setting....yada yada yada....

Uh uh.

This woman needs to grow up; and if you think wearing a t-shirt on an airplane that reads "fuckers" is OK then probably you should take a nap, have some lemonade and then call your mother and ask her to explain it to you.

[Zhade]

174. This post has several personal attacks, Stephanie.

I think you're better than this.

The crack about lawyers was unfair, too.

[Name removed]

235. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brentspeak]

189. You should change you nick to "DefensiveLawyer"

;) Not meant to be nasty. It seemed an appropriate time for that joke.

[Realityhack]

451. Extreamly well put.

Well put. Thank you for reminding everyone of that FACT.

[Kikosexy2]

105. They...

needn't go to that extreme...they could've asked the person to cover it up with a jacket or sweater or wear the shirt inside/out or given the person their blanket to cover it on the flight. Fascism on the rise!

[melody]

123. I'm offended by a lot of crap shoved in my face but I prefer free speech

...be protected than my own personal sensitivities.

[Megahurtz]

137. I Agree 100%!

[powwowdancer]

128. Fucking fuckers!!

There, I said it!
1) You can't convince me that this word is SO offensive, that someone need lose their flight privileges. Most R rated movies abound with it's usage.
2) If it were me wearing the questionable shirt--when asked, I would have promptly removed it and boarded the plane sans clothing.
3)I've been on a plane when Christian mission teens SANG Jesus music together, and no one threw them out the door. Talk about fucking offensive!

[Caoimhe]

135. You know.. I wonder

Don't they show some "R" rated movies on airplanes? What if you wore a tshirt with dialogue from a movie showing on the plane? Would that get you kicked off too?

I have no idea, I try not to fly. Being married to someone who is 6'9" and being 6'1" myself, I would much rather drive than be subjected to idiots who don't realize that the reason their seat won't recline is because my KNEES and FEMURS are wedged behind their seat. I find THAT to be offensive, but I don't ask that people who slam my knees repeatedly be TAKEN OFF THE PLANE. Perhaps I should.

It offends my sensibilities, and it hurts too.

[powwowdancer]

479. harmonious agreement

I'm 6'5" and am in total agreement with you... Viva Randy Newman!

:dem:
powwowdaner out

[ryanmuegge]

218. So-called profanity is a social construction.

I'm more worried about tax cuts for the rich than someone saying "fuck." All of this concern about "morality" is just part of a larger diversion from real concerns. It is a violation against the core American value of individualism to even CARE one way or the other if someone is using profanity. Furthermore, citizens in an evolved society are aware of the subjective nature and trivial significance of such things as "profanity" or "obscenity."

[JugDack]

237. Exactly!!! -nt

[marshall]

484. Language is a social construction

It's not just the vulgarities that are only given meaning by what we give them. Words represent ideas, things, and actions and if we take away their meaning by saying they are just social constructs then communication itself is meaningless and we might as well each go and live alone in our own dark cave.

[ryanmuegge]

490. Fair enough

I agree with the idea that words and ideas have meaning. What is vulgar and what is not, though, is highly subjective. You know good and well, however, that I wasn't downplaying the value of communication or words. I was criticizing the disturbing contemporary trend of killing dissent against the government and corporations under the guise of protecting "morality" and "decency."

[marshall]

499. What if the two collide?

In this case the two issues of morality/decency collided with dissent against the government. Dissent is protected, but only insofar as it does not violate other laws. Surely even those who lobby for flag burning as a protected right would not endorse somebody stealing a flag in order to burn it. Shinnying up the flagpole at the Whitehouse and tearing down the flag in order to burn it would make a dramatic and no doubt well publicized act of dissent, but it would be stealing nonetheless.

Oftentimes such collisions make for strange bedfellows--thus you have the ACLU on Rush Limbaugh's side of the doctor shopping issue, and you have many liberals uniting with conservatives to deride the recent SCOTUS decision to let companies such as Wal Mart (to pick the most egregious example) confiscate property from citizens in order to generate a higher tax base for the community.

[Caoimhe]

372. ln-yer-face-bad-manners

sure sounds llke a good republlcan MORAL DlLLEMA


stop belng one of them


up er down
shawk n awe
skool buses
baby klllers


wah wah

ls YOUR moral flbre lRONED?

[Realityhack]

452. You scare me.

I supose that the KKK having a rally should be baned as well because its 'in your face' bad manners?

Get over it. The words on someones shirt are phisicaly in-capable of hurting you. You are chosing to be offended, which BTW means you actualy PREFER being offended to the alterative.

And for the record I hate the KKK... but I beleive in the right to free speach.

[Piperay]

467. I agree

I am sick of rude insensitive impolite behavior.x(

[Gnostic]

500. Who cares what your....

....interpretation of "bad manners" are? Who made you the word police?

Shall we all just become akin to a bunch of stepford wives, all looking and acting the same, towing the line and making all nicey nicey? Shall we all stand around in public and hold hands and sing nursery rhymes?

I for one applaud people like that who practise their free speech rights and don't care who does'nt like it. There should be MORE people like that who wear such things that catch the eye and attention of others and make them think. See, that's the key word here.....think.....which is something your stepford wife world has trouble with. When we all start looking and acting the same and according to your approved dress and manner code then thought itself will become obsolete and unnecessary, won't it?

Now, that said, I'll let you fall back into lockstep with the rest of the "wives" and bots.

[opihimoimoi]

2. My Family and I will never use SWA in the future...never....

[MadHound]

4. Gee, I think it is time that SW Airlines was paid a visit

By this woman's attorney. How dare somebody criticize the Great and Mighty Bush:eyes:

Seriously, this has lawsuit written all over it, and hopefully this woman will follow through in protecting her free speech rights.

[TX-RAT]

44. Oh for piss sake.

It's not a freedom of speech issue, it's a profanity issue. In TX and many other states she could be arrested for disorderly conduct.

TX Penal Code 42.01

[Caoimhe]

46. Yet one more reason

I would never live in Texas.

[tx_dem41]

60. Thank goodness!

:eyes:

[Caoimhe]

69. Yes I am sure you wouldn't want

more people who oppose the Bush Administration to move to Texas. As a blue stater, don't worry... I have no desire.

[TX-RAT]

70. Might want to check your own state laws.

[Moochy]

89. Sodomy anyone?

Remember the Michael Moore Sodomymobile?

Did it ever make it into Texas?

[MadHound]

80. And many other states have actually joined the 21st century,

And gotten rid of such profanity statutes, if they indeed ever had them. Just because it is the law in Texas doesn't mean that it is, or should be, the law everywhere else.

And yes, it is a free speech issue, even though it concerns "profane speech". Sometimes one cannot adequately express one's utter hatred of someone without profanity.

[sui generis]

106. god dammit is profane too

so arrest me. I'll pay for the goddam fucking ticket and tell the judge what I think too, in proper "French".

:evilgrin:

[Zhade]

180. Arrested for a swear?

That's fucking insane.

[TX-RAT]

214. That's fucking insane.

No thats fucking law in some states.

[Zhade]

222. Yeah - a fucking insane law.

I mean, I'm still entitled to my opinion, right? Or would you like to censor that, too?

[TX-RAT]

226. Don't believe i've tried to censor anything.

If you don't like the laws, talk to you legislators.

[Zhade]

240. Then why did you feel the need to "correct" my point...

...about how being arrested for a swear is insane?

[TX-RAT]

249. People need to understand, words can get you arrested.

Law vary state to state, we may not agree with them, but we must obey them. I personally don't find the printed word fuck offensive, but the state of TX does. What are you gonna do?

[Zhade]

256. And there are laws in parts of the country that horses can't wear pants.

You and I both know that not every law on the books even applies to this society anymore.

That a word like "fuck" can get you arrested is, IMHO, completely and utterly insane.

[Moochy]

258. My horses are all freeballing it

They wear pants but no underwear.. is that offensive? :D

[Zhade]

276. *SNORT*

Good thing I wasn't drinking anything!

[Caoimhe]

287. your horses play pocket pool?

You should be arrested for contributing to this behavior.

:rofl:

[Moochy]

292. they are actually bloomers

I'm only trying to follow the letter of the law, I'm an originalist you see. Now if only I could find a good bottle of sasparilla.

[TX-RAT]

295. LMAO

Mine are no balling.

[Moochy]

308. Then they can wear the really tight pants

hehe this tangent needs to stop, darn your pants-wearing horse laws zhade!!

[TX-RAT]

393. Had to laugh

When i was out feeding yesterday, 2 of my bulls were walking down the road in front of me. I looked over at my wife and said they were Low-Balling. She didn't get it, guess you had to be there.

[TX-RAT]

267. completely and utterly insane.

I agree.
They just choose to continue to enforce this one.

[Zhade]

278. Well, good that we agree there.

NT!

[Moochy]

279. Woo hoo

This thread has turned the corner and is cruising down civility avenue.

It's a great thing to see!

[Zhade]

297. Civility? Fuck that!

:evilgrin:

I kid, I kid!

[TX-RAT]

300. I'll buy the drinks, what ya having.

[Realityhack]

446. WRONG.

You do not have to obay an unconstitutional law you just have to be prepared for the concequences.

A good lawer would get you out of an arest for wearing that in a hartbeat especialy as that shirt is clearly political speach. Someone mentioned a similar case had been decided by the SC and the conviction was struck down.

As for South West I emagine they have a lot more leyway as they are not a government entity.

[CAcyclist]

492. Oh, fuck that ! nt

[LynneSin]

54. It's not the anti-bush statement it's the profanity

A reputable lawyer wouldn't touch this with a 10-foot pole ESPECIALLY if the airline asked her to cover up the offending word.

[wrathofkahn]

102. Wouldn't ever be winable

Part of the "conditions of contract" that's in the extremely fine print of an airline ticket (actually not on the ticket, but in the airline's "conditions of carriage") says that, basically, the airline can refuse transport to anyone for any reason. The reason that's in there is primarily for the opportunity to deny boarding to drunks, but it's also what allowed overbooking to begin as a practice.

Like it or not, legally, Southwest had the right to put that woman off the airplane. By the same token, you would have all the right in the world to refuse to allow someone to ride in your car if they were wearing, say, a "W04" shirt or something.

[BlueEyedSon]

5. Lawsuit?

[Freddie Stubbs]

231. On what grounds?

:shrug:

[BlueEyedSon]

236. First amendment? Equal protection? Basic consumer stuff???

[Freddie Stubbs]

257. Have you ever actually read the 1st Amendment?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This applies to the government, not private individuals. As does the equal protection clause.

I'm not sure what "basic consumer stuff" law it is that you are referring to.

[BlueEyedSon]

268. Im not a lawyer. But since when do Airlines regulate the clothing of the

ticketholders? Does the FAA (a govt org) impose any dress code?

[Moochy]

289. since they updated their conditions of carriage

check out the PDF that has the "conditions of Carriage"

It's upthread a bit, tx-dem has posted it.

I guess I feel it's a rule that I dont agree with, and its too bad she didnt just cover up her shirt with some black tape or a jacket or something, I'd have done that rather than leave the plane.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

8. I don't think our freedoms

include wearing T-shirts with inflammatory messages on long tube-like conveyances that fly thousands of feet in the air.

Maybe the analogy is shouting FIRE in a crowded theatre.

You never know when that kind of thing leads to a brawl. They should have told her to just turn it inside out. We do that in schools if we feel the shirt will distract students from learning.

[Caoimhe]

13. These aren't students

These are adults, who bought a ticket just like anyone else. Can you explain to me where anyone has the right not to be offended? I mean, I am offended by GOD BLESS BUSH shirts but how far would I get if I tried to have an airline force people with a similar shirt to turn it inside out?

Freedom of speech means protecting unpopular speech too.

[tx_dem41]

24. "Freedom of speech"....can you please tell me how this is a

freedom of speech issue? Do you even know what the 1st Amendment says?

[K-W]

302. The freedom of speech isnt restricted to the first ammendment.

The ideas of freedom and rights existed before the US Constitution and are not derived from it.

It is wonderful that the constitution protects our freedom of speech from government suppression, but freedom of speech is a right that belongs to individual people, not a clause in a legal document. If you dont have the ability to express yourself freely, it doesnt matter who is behind it.

[K-W]

303. dupe

[LynneSin]

59. It's not the anti-bush statement they were finding offensive

it's the word 'fucker' on a tee-shirt.

You can't use fucker on TV unless it's late night or pay.

You can't use fucker in most mainstream newspapers

Most people won't say fucker around their children

But I suppose we're progressives and we're suppose to overlook the obvious and assume it was the anti-bush statement

[TX-RAT]

66. exactly right

It's a profanity issue, nothing else.

[kostya]

How do you know for sure it wasn't the anti-Bush message?

Fuckers was just an easier target. Had it been a picture of prominent Dems, would the result be the same? I'd bet a small wager that it wouldn't have been. - K

[TankLV]

101. I'm not so sure as you are.

I'd say they wouldn't have made it such a big deal if the object of the derision wasn't bunkerboy and the repuke criminals.

The "fuck" was just a convenient excuse.

So much for "freedom" they seem to want to spread all over the place like some bad baby shit!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

We will never know for sure

whether it was the anti-bush or the profanity. I'm inclined to think it was the profanity, but I wasn't there and don't know the political inclinations of that airline.

But, I do think they have final say on whether you can wear a profane T-shirt on their conveyance. Same as in a restaurant: no shoes, no shirt, no service. My husband was refused service once because he didn't have on a tie.

And finally, despite the fact that the sentiments are spot on, I wouldn't want to be the middle person in a row between the T-shirt wearer and some big bruiser who thinks GWB hung the moon!

[nvliberal]

382. Sorry, it's in the airlines' rules.

Can you imagine if this moron took the airlines to court over this?

She'd be laughed out of town on a rail.

[shamanstar]

401. yes it is

if someone had a shirt on the said fucker in any other context, i would bet that they wouldnt have kicked her off the flight. other passengers may have been offended but they probably wouldnt have thrown a big fit about it if it wasnt for the fact that it was directed at the idiot king.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

170. But what about

when I go to a restaurant and can't get served because I am not wearing shoes?

Is flying on an airplane our right? Is eating in a restaurant barefoot my right?

[nolabels]

404. In a normal world the person wearing a "GOD BLESS BUSH" teeshirt.........

wouldn't be seen in public, but living the country with the worst president in the most brainwashed country ever has it's privileges :banghead:

[JanMichael]

14. It's sad when grownups can't figure out what "appropriate clothing is."

nt

[crispini]

15. She was told to do that

"I was told that basically that I had to cover my shirt, or I was told if I cover the shirt I can basically stay on the plane."

I'm not quite sure what to think about this yet.....

[DBoon]

22. Why stop with t-shirts?

I think anyone with gas should be kicked off flights.

Anyone with small children that are not thoroughly sedated.

Loud people should be required to wear gags.

and lastly, life insurance salesmen should be banished from all sir travel for life (on edit: as should anyone who ever proselytizes passengers for their favorite religion. )

I would gladly take a quiet, polite, non-gaseous passenger with an abscenity on her t-shirt over ANY of the above. And I'm saying this as someone who has flown lots of business miles.

[DU me]

36. Anyone with small children that are not thoroughly sedated.

I had to laugh at that one, because I totally agree. BUT I ended up having to take a flight with my 4 young grandchildren and all I could think about was that God was teaching me a lesson for all of my negative thoughts about young children flying.

[MADem]

61. Actually, if someone STINKS, they can be refused boarding

The woman could have turned the shirt inside out, and not had a problem, or put a bit of masking tape over the offending word.

SWA has refused people boarding for profanity that is non political as well.

[Megahurtz]

132. Lol!

Perfect!:D

[Qibing Zero]

377. Damn straight.

I just had a horrible flight tuesday that included both gassy people AND kids which cried for about half the duration. In normal circumstances I would have high-fived the person wearing that t-shirt, but if they were filling in for someone on that flight I would have hugged them.

[raysr]

35. If RW'ers can't

control themselves, throw them off! It's about * disguised with the "F" word as an excuse.

[Demeter]

47. Would You Care To Think That Through Again, Please?

While I check to see which country this is....


Maybe it's because as a woman, I have had to deal with all kinds of clothing taboos all my life. It is the hypothetical Rwinger who throws the punch that gets thrown off the plane, not a person dressed in a fashion that another finds displeasing.

And as for children, unless you are going to poke out their eyes, or never teach them to read, they are going to be very familiar with all kinds of words in English and other languages. If a child asks, "What does that shirt say or mean?" The reply "It's an insult and not a nice word" is sufficient.

And here I thought people had to be grown up to some degree...

[Caoimhe]

53. THANKS!

EXACTLY my thoughts. Seeing dead bodies floating in New Orleans = ok. Seeing the word FUCK on a tshirt... NOT OK.

I am more offended by this administration and their crimes than any four or 7 letter word could ever offend me.

Where do I go to get Bush&Co kicked off the planet? They OFFEND my sensibilities!

PS IT'S MY 200th POST!!!!

[sui generis]

93. right there with you

funny topic here on DU, especially to see people defending SW airlines on this, HERE of all places.

This must be a conservative progressive thread. :silly:

[Debau2005]

10. Did she get refunded for the ticket?

So the next time I have to sit next to someone with their "Church" shirt, I can complain? As I don't want to be hit in the face with their brand of morality!

[TX-RAT]

103. I can complain? If it says fuck on it, you sure can.

[Zhade]

194. So if it said "Come to Jesus and be fucking saved, heathen"...

...they would be kicked off the flight if they refused to cover it or remove it, but without the swear it would be fine?

I think it's offensive either way. Would I be sued if I were the SW employee making the demand to remove the non-swear version?

After all, isn't "heathen" a swear word to many people?

[TX-RAT]

206. After all, isn't "heathen" a swear word to many people?

Not in TX or any other state i'm aware of, but fuck is, in many states.

[Moochy]

215. but fuck is

butt fuck is illegal in many states too.

[Zhade]

228. Way to miss the point.

I'm talking about the perceived offensiveness. I, for example, don't find fuck/ass/shit to be offensive.

Many older people do.

So who gets to decide what is offensive? I understand that "community standards" appears to apply in SWA's case, but what if a passenger comes from a place with different community standards?

And I ask again: would the airline be justified in throwing someone off a flight if they said, in a normal conversational tone to a friend, "fuck bush", instead of wearing a shirt that said the same?

[TX-RAT]

241. Only one missing the point is you.

(I, for example, don't find fuck/ass/shit to be offensive.)
And neither do i, but we don't matter.

Legislators in many states do find profane words offensive.

[Zhade]

247. Can you respond to the last part of my question, please?

That's the more interesting aspect of situations like these, and I'd like to know your take on the matter.

[TX-RAT]

263. To make it real simple.

It's their airline, they have the right to refuse service to anyone they choose, for any reason they choose. I would urge them to use extreme caution, but it is their right. You don't like their rules, don't fly their planes. You don't like your states laws, move to another state.

As i said before, i don't care, but then i don't matter.

[Zhade]

301. Ah, but I didn't ask if they had the right...

...I asked if they would be justified.

No need to "dumb it down", I can follow along just fine. :)

I do take exception to the "move to another state" line - if I lived in a state where, as an atheist, I would not be allowed to run for office, would the onus be on me to move because of the state's unjust law?

But I digress.

[Caoimhe]

293. I see a business opportunity here

"Jesus (FUCKING) loves you!"
"Fuck me, Lord Jesus"
"I've been a fucking sinner, now I'm fucking Jesus"
"Christ is the fucking way"
"I -heart- fucking Jesus"


and my own favorite

"I fuck with Jesus's permission!"

[Zhade]

304. Oh, that's offensive.

But damned funny!

[mattclearing]

11. Does this mean everyone is going to JetBlue and Independence Air?

:D

[Zhade]

209. JetBlue gave away passenger info to the FBI willingly.

On the other hand, they hired at least one excellent-under-a-crisis pilot...

[Cha]

21. I'll say that woman had

brass cajones for wearing a tee-shirt out in public that stated her anti-bush views so forcefully.

I remember when a mall in upper-state New York wouldn't let anti-war tee-shirts go through their sacred mall.

[tx_dem41]

30. I think she also had incredible gall to wear a t-shirt around

kids that said "fuckers" on it.

[Cha]

34. Yeah, FOCKERS would have

been so much better.

[Moochy]

92. Incredible Gall??

If you really consider it *incredible gall* then you dont get out much to experience true *gall*.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

99. I have this T-Shirt

I wear it with a peace sign pinned over the U when there's any chance I'll be around kids.

It gets quite a bit of attention and I always tell anyone who asks what letter is hidden under the pin.

[TankLV]

104. God bless people with gall!

I wish we had more of them!

[Zhade]

251. Is it the WORD, or the INTENT?

"Fockers" - everyone knows exactly what that word is referring to.

If the "u" had been an "o", would they have thrown her off?

[dflprincess]

23. I wonder if they'll show this on "Airline" on A&E?

Be interesting to see the spin they put on it.

[Caoimhe]

25. LOL that show is funny

along the lines of Reno 911.

[stopbush]

26. Meat The Fockers?? :)

[Rowdyboy]

27. Its tacky, crude and vulgar, and children should not be exposed to trash

like that in public. People have no class anymore, no idea of how to behave appropriately in public. Thats why idiots blab away on cell phones while sitting on the toilet in public restrooms and 8 year old girls wear slutty clothes proclaiming themselves to be promiscuous.

Free speech does not mean all speech is appropriate everywhere and at all times. There are limits. Most mature people understand that.

[TankLV]

109. Behave like ladies and gentlemen. I hear my mother in there somewhere.

But I'm afraid that the thought police are over the top, as this action is.

I'm greatly offended by the "jeebus" t-shirts - but I live and let live.

Fuck.

[Rowdyboy]

141. Of course you hear your mother.....I'm becoming my parents more and more

as I mature. And I'm channeling your mom....

Best example I can give of what I mean. A few years ago, at Southern Decadence Days in New Orleans, I saw man-to-man oral sex on a major crowded street in broad daylight. I wasn't offended and no one else around seemed to be. Would I do it myself? No, but it didn't bother me and certainly there were no children anywhere in blocks. No harm no foul.

That same behavior would be TOTALLY unacceptable on the street in the small southern town where I live. Wrong time, wrong place, wrong behavior.

In the words of the immortal Mick Jagger...

"What a drag it is getting old..."

http://www.keno.org/stones_lyrics/mothers_little_helper.htm

[sui generis]

115. well then we should give people license to be in public

based on their score on a maturity test.

That ain't very American. We do "understand" a lot, as mature people, including the fact that it is a word intended to offend.

A real mature person would not "take" offense voluntarily, knowing that.

So probably half the plane shouldn't have flown that day based on "maturity".

[Rowdyboy]

155. Basic civility and respect for children and the elderly is a very American

behavior. Once upon a time, mature dress and behavior were actually expected by adults and practiced by children. Its only very recently that people have found it necessary to express themselves by wear vulgarities in public.

I don't know why I'm still surprised. What can you expect from a society that thinks movies about farting, vomiting, shitting and masturbating are the epitome of humor.

[readmoreoften]

413. Yes, there must be limits to free speech!!!

Let's start with banning everything that makes anyone uncomfortable in any way shape or form, or any speech or clothing that is bad for 'the children.'

We must always think of the children.
Won't somebody think of the children.

Oh, wooooe to the children! No no... Not the children in sweatshops or dying in Iraq from depleted uranium poisoning or dying of starvation. No, no, not the children who lost their parents in Katrina. Not those children.

WOE TO THE CHILDREN WHO ARE EXPOSED TO THE F-WORD. WOE WOE WOE.

I am heartily outraged at this woman's randy political pun!

[blueintenn]

435. I will ask this again

What if I wore a shirt with the N-word on it? Would that be ok? (No, I wouldn't do it, purely hypothetical)

BIT

[readmoreoften]

468. Hate speech is different than political speech or profanity.

Not even the same argument. Fuck is a work that has zero meaning.

Still, I'll play your poorly-constructed ball game. People are permitted to wear ONE MAN + ONE WOMAN= MARRIAGE shirts, I guarantee it.

I consider that hate speech even though that contains no profanity.

[blueintenn]

477. "Hate speech" is nothing more than a phrase.

Speaking of poorly constructed ball games. :eyes:

If I understand you correctly;

1. Profanity words are ok.
2. "Hate" speech (whatever that is) is not ok.

Under your policy, the woman would have been kicked off the plane for "hate" speech (calling * and his cronies "fuckers") rather than for violating the CoC that both the lady and SWA recognized when the transfer of sale occured.

BIT

[peacetalksforall]

28. I am one who hopes that the fad of saying fxxxx passes, but if I had

seen the lady with the t-shirt, I would have clapped in approval.

So does this have more to do with the regime, the lady, or SW Airlines. What rule did they apply to take that action.

Reclaim the laws for the people. Which applies to Bush flying all over the country on our dime, but only letting a few select people into his 'public' speeches and now allowing dissenters within his eye and ear distance - because marionettes are fragile.

[enlightenment]

55. My question, too. What rule did SW Airlines apply in this case?

Like most of you, I am not fond of tacky messages on t-shirts and the back end of shorts. Actually, I'm not fond of what passes for "fashionable" these days -- but no one is forcing me to wear it, so I just spend a lot of time shaking my head and telling myself that "this, too, shall pass."
I am more concerned with what appears to be a violation of a rule that this woman knew nothing about. "Appropriate dress" is a sort of unspoken rule on most airlines; there is probably something in print to that end -- but if she was breaking the rule, why did they allow her to board? Flying from LA to Portland via Reno, it's doubtful she was wearing a coat, so someone probably saw the shirt before she got on the plane (I live in LV -- it's wonderfully cool at the moment, about 64 degrees -- but the temps have been in the 80s).
If SW wants to control what folks wear on their planes -- and personally, I don't think that's altogether a bad idea (people really seem to think civility doesn't apply in LV. shudder.) -- then SW needs to clearly stipulate what is appropriate and what is not.

[wrathofkahn]

136. They applied their Conditions of Carriage

The fine print that everyone agrees to when they buy a Southwest ticket.

The scary part is that Southwest's CoC is pretty simple compared to that of most airlines.

[enlightenment]

321. Knew it had to be written down somewhere. Thanks.

It didn't occur to me to look for it online (silly me).

A frighteningly vague document, to be sure -- though the part about "lewd, obscene, or patently offensive" clothing is pretty clear. Have to wonder what the difference is between offensive and patently offensive, since you're not allowed to behave in an "offensive" way. Is patently offensive worse?
I digress . . .

It still doesn't answer the question of why they allowed her on the plane, though -- and if they're going to apply the rule, then they should start with the "lewd" part first. About all you can say for a late Sunday night flight out of LV is that most of the lewdly dressed, homeward bound "what happens here stays here" types are passed out from their weekend excesses.

:eyes:

[wrathofkahn]

441. If I read the article correctly...

"It still doesn't answer the question of why they allowed her on the plane, though...."

I understood that she originally agreed to cover up the shirt after boarding, and then either removed, or allowed to be removed, the cover, thus re-exposing the shirt once they were underway. The flight was direct (meaning single-plane service, as opposed to non-stop) LAX-RNO-PDX. Reno would have been the first opportunity for the crew to enforce the rules of the airline. That is, unles they intended to give her a crash course in skydiving over the Sierra Nevadas. :D

[Zhade]

261. Good luck - "fuck" has been around for hundreds of years.

I doubt it's going anywhere.

But I agree with you overall - what would happen if "fuck bush" came up in a quiet conversation on the plane? Would the airline be justified in kicking the person off the flight?

[DURHAM D]

31. What I find most offensive is a couple flying with two lap babies .

It is dangerous for the babies and dangerous and annoying for passengers. I could care less what anyone is wearing, including some sort of crazy for christ t-shirt.

[DemBones DemBones]

369. I've never seen babies become drunk and loud on a plane. nt

[txaslftist]

38. Hey we gotta be free.

If I want to go onto an airplane holding my d*ck with no pants on as an expression of my individuality, who are they to say no?

Those prissy prudes.

[TX-RAT]

58. Might want to hang on to it while in jail also.

Thats a class b Misdemeanor here.

[tx_dem41]

63. Note to self....

don't fly on a plane with txaslftist.

:)

[TankLV]

116. Note to self - don't go ANYWHERE with tx-dem41.

It's against my fragile "sensibilities".

[txaslftist]

151. I'll let you have my bag of nuts.

[flordehinojos]

39. the cultural revolution has begun:

Condoleezza Rice said: "In a world where evil is still very real, democratic principles must also be backed with power in all its forms: Political and economic, cultural and moral, and yes, sometimes military,"

Repressive measures against freedom of speech, thought, religion, morality...are taken to the end-all purpose of ensuring the ideology of the dominant party.


one way of thinking.
one approved religion.
one approved morality.

all in support of the bushist regime...and ordinary people become snitches, moral authorities over other people...the repression has begun and America is not fighting back. How very sad!

[mongo]

157. Yep and the authoritarian left is jumping over itself to help them

"win" the culture war. See it here on DU all the time.

[flordehinojos]

397. i am not really sure what you mean ...

(authoritarian and left don't usually go together in my way of thinking ...as left goes more with liberalism and freedom ... now authoritarian and right those two do go togehter and then subdivide into either fascist or communists, rich class, or working class etc.)

but if you care to explain ... i'll be happy to understand your point of view.

[mongo]

421. My prime example of the autoritarian left

is Andrea Dworkin - who got laws passed making pornography illegal as a civil rights violation against women. These laws have been overturned.

[seang70]

41. I always wear a Anti-BUSH

shirt on every flight I take...........although none have said Fuckers on them they do make people take notice..

[Catherine Vincent]

43. Someone should test them.

I don't disagree with what they did but if someone would have that same t-shirt on but instead of a pic of Bush etc., have it with a pic of Kerry, Dean, Pelosi and other Democrats.

[Caoimhe]

45. I agree

I wonder how much it had to do with the "expletive deletive" and how much it had to do with WHO the shirt was about.

PS.. didn't Cheney tell someone in the Senate to go FUCK himself?

Irony that this shirt just uses his own choice word.

[Zhade]

305. It would have to be the same airline and flight path.

But I heartily agree - a liberal should wear such a shirt under another shirt, and then remove the overshirt.

See what happens.

[Realityhack]

453. excelent idea. n/t

n/t

[LisaM]

49. If they won't allow fuck, they shouldn't allow "suck" either

I find that just as offensive, yet it's passed into everyday language and on a lot of clothes. I even heard it on a commercial.

And also, those jerks on United Airlines, who reclined their seats in front of me both coming and going last month, so I could barely read, and didn't have a place for my drink or room to do a crossword puzzle - DON'T DO THAT AGAIN. Worse, they pulled my hair when then were forced to incline their seat upon landing. I'd rather have someone with an anti-Bush shirt that someone who pulls my hair.

[LynneSin]

50. Was it for being Anti-Bush or because the word FUCKER was in it

I saw the tee-shirt. Tokenlib wore it to the protest in DC last weekend and it was funny as hell.

If the woman who was being banned was wearing an anti-bush shirt with non-offensive words on it - I'd be all over this.

But the 'Fucker' term is offensive. If it's about that I think many of us would agree that the shirt was in poort taste for in that situation.

[Catchawave]

51. Can we understand this *jiggy*....?

Some signs at the protest spelled out fu*kers, probably why msm didn't cover it/Cspan didn't cover it.....family sensitive?

If you don't believe me, check out your fav rw blogs/forums who have signs posted w/ fu*k the troops photos on their websites.

[Nye Bevan]

52. Bush and his cronies ARE a bunch of f**kers

HOWEVER it is completely inappropriate and crass to wear a T shirt with this phrase on a flight. If I had been on that flight with my children I would have complained to the airline staff had they NOT taken action against that woman. Southwest was absolutely correct.

[tnlefty]

65. What if the shirt had a picture of Cheney and the words "go fuck

yourself" depicted coming from his mouth? I mean he did break the Senate rules by saying this, and it would be an accurate t-shirt. Wonder how that would've been handled?

[NYCGirl]

133. I'd bet you good money they'd have handled it exactly the same way. NT

[Moochy]

67. this is ridiculous and sad...

I can't believe how many people think this is OK here at DU.
this place is really saddening me, how many people just dont even get it.

[Nye Bevan]

119. I absolutely agree

The inability to grasp the concepts of decorum and propriety is absolutely staggering. Or am I just too old-fashioned?

[TankLV]

120. Yes - the concept of "freedom" is so over-rated nowadays!

[DoveTurnedHawk]

71. Good for Southwest

There's too much crassness and lack of manners in our society as it is, IMO.

DTH

[Caoimhe]

73. meanwhile... Mr. Cheney

You mean.. like Cheney saying GO FUCK YOURSELF to Leahy?

Did he even get reprimanded for that? I forget.

Oh yeah.. nope.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

81. So What?

The fact that Cheney is a crass and undignified dirtbag criminal does not change the fact that this woman was crass and had no manners. Southwest did the right thing, IMO.

DTH

[sui generis]

77. Fcuk Southwest Airlines111!!!11!

sorry - I was having fun being crass at your expense.

;)

Seriously, they could have asked her to cover it up. Somebody was playing babysitter to an adult, and that's just as absurd as being an adult and requiring one.

There were better ways to handle it all the way around.

[donheld]

72. Your headline is misleading

It wasn't the anti-bush that got her kicked off. :spank:

[slor]

96. How in the world does anyone know that for sure?

Sure, they will say it was the word "fucker". But how do you know that was not simply an expedient way of dealing with a "freedom hater"?

[Gregorian]

75. The t-shirt is absolutely accurate.

It accurately depicts the vulgar and offensive nature of this administration.

Shouting fire in a crowded theater is WAY different. Scream fuck at the top of your lungs, and noone's going to get hurt.

This is well within our First Amendment rights, in my ignorant opinion.


However, in argument against the shirt, this is no different than getting stopped by the police for having the same word on your bumper sticker. But that, too, has always bothered me.

[FredScuttle]

85. No one will get hurt...

but scream "Fuck" over and over in a public place and the cops will have you for disturbing the peace in a heartbeat.

It's offensive and quite idiotic to wear a t-shirt with such a blatant obscenity on it in public, anti-Bush sentiment or not.

edit: I agree that the OP's headline is misleading.

[Nye Bevan]

113. The First Amendment does not apply on private property

As another example it is not unconstitutional for sex threads to be banned on DU.

[TX-RAT]

130. Thank You

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

505. How convenient

that more and more places are private property now.

[tx_dem41]

134. Please...go read the First Amendment and then tell me how

SWA is infringing on it. Thank you.

[KamaAina]

78. When they gave her grief about the shirt...

..why didn't she just take it off? :evilgrin:

[Megahurtz]

179. ROFL!!!

:rofl:

[Spazito]

79. Geez, Southwest just lost a potential customer for this

I would not choose to wear a t-shirt like that but to throw her off her flight for it is beyond belief. I find t-shirts touting the Christian right's beliefs offensive yet I would avoid looking at them while the flight lasted.

When the bush cabal is gone, I plan to start visiting the US again but I won't be flying Southwest, that's for damn sure! (Hmmm, bet I offended someone by using 'damn', should I be tossed from DU?

[Caoimhe]

83. I would fight

for your right... to say Damn.

Damn yeah!

oh I mean

FUCK yeah!

:applause:

[Megahurtz]

150. Right On Sistah! n/t

[Spazito]

200. LOL and thanks!!

[DarbyUSMC]

140. As has been mentioned quite a few times in this thread; it wasn't about *

Is that a hard concept to grasp? When in public, especially in a confined space, you can't dress as you would in your own house.

Here is an example:

A guy in his twenties wore a T-shirt that said "Fuck the world." He was asked not to wear it again. When he chose to come to the place where he wore it, he agreed to abide by the rules. His argument on that was that he didn't choose to be there, however he did choose. There were six other places that offered the services he needed but he knew they also would request he not wear the T-shirt. Profanity is what it is. It's embarrassing to see it if you are with children of reading age or possibly with family members no matter how liberated you yourself might be. Maybe you can get by wearing it to a concert where profanity is used on stage but in a setting where there are people from all walks of life? No, sorry, all it is, is an attention getter. "Look at me, look at me."

They gave this woman a chance to cover it up. I think any airline would have done the same.




This shirt would have been acceptable. Message gets across; no profanity used. Clever people can say things without stooping to using words usually associated with those who have less education or social experience.

[Spazito]

147. I said nothing about the shirt and it's anti-bush mesage being

the cause, profanity is in the eye of the beholder, imo. For example, I find the use of 'Jesus' on posters or t-shirts profane, offensive, yet I don't try to have people thrown out of a public place or off an aircraft because they choose to wear a t-shirt saying "Jesus Loves You".

If you would note my comment re using 'damn' in my post, I was aware that so-called profanity was the issue.

[IndyOp]

338. I get your meaning -- and I love the graphic in your post.

I would like to add, however, that my take on "Clever people can say things without stooping to using words usually associated with those who have less education or social experience" has shifted in the past few weeks (post-Katrina).

I used to look down on rap & hip-hop that used 'fuck' and 'n*****.' Post-Katrina I am finding KO's song "George * Don't Like Black People" to be as REAL an expression of my rage as anything else I can read/say.

Angry people sometimes use words that shock and offend on purpose - it isn't because they aren't clever or because they have less education or social experience. It is because they are ENRAGED and because sometimes breaking social norms IS necessary to wake people up.

I cannot invest serious energy in a debate about 'polite language' and possibility that I might offend someone's sensibilites or be judged as uneducated or uncouth when people are fucking being killed by this fucking immoral, fucking illegal government!

Peace.

[insane_cratic_gal]

86. To play devil's advocate

IF Cheney can say "Go fuck yourself" on the senate floor.. Bush can flip off a camera, I'm inclined to believe that someone is allowed to return the favor and say meet the fuckers with the administration on high display.

Now I have no issue with her wearing the shirt, I would of laughed and congratulated her. On the other hand, I would covered it up to not offend the general public. There are people who do get upset over the use of foul language.

After being a fan of Carlin's Comedy, I'm rather immune to the word myself.

[TX-RAT]

94. I believe it was an old Carlin sketch, 10 words you can't say on TV

[insane_cratic_gal]

160. And Yet that is exactly where I saw it

Irony eh?

[Zhade]

309. Seven words.

Some of which can now be said.

[MissMillie]

97. I wonder if they ask the guy w/ the hooters T-shirt to cover it....

Those shirts offend the HELL out of me.

[TX-RAT]

110. Did it say fuck on it?

[MissMillie]

111. no

but the owl has titties for eyes, and the name of the reference refers to a slang (and often considered derrogatory) term for female breasts.

What I'm saying is.... who decides what's offensive?

[TX-RAT]

114. States

[MissMillie]

117. states what???

????

"fuck" is offenseive, but "hooters" isn't?

Hell, I find "hooters" far more offensive than "fuck"

[TX-RAT]

122. Guess they forgot to ask for our opinions.

[Not_So_Right_Wing]

131. Hooters offensive...?

I have to disagree with you...I find them to be more arousing than offensive! :toast:

[MissMillie]

148. Way back when

I was prez of the town Little League. One of the men who coached (my son's team, in fact) used to wear a Hooters T-shirt to the games. I thought it was highly inappropriate and told him so, but he didn't stop wearing it.

[Not_So_Right_Wing]

156. Thats the stuff that bothers me...

have enough sense not to wear that crap around your own kids...if you can't handle that than at least refrain from wearing that crap around other people's kids.

[TX-RAT]

165. I thought it was highly inappropriate and told him so

And i agree with you. But thats not a violation of state law, fuck is.

[mongo]

192. Ever heard of Cohen v. California?

Paul Robert Cohen, 19, was arrested for wearing a jacket with the words "Fuck the Draft" inside the Los Angeles Courthouse. He was convicted of violating section 415 of the California Penal Code, which prohibits "maliciously and willfully disturb the peace or quiet of any neighborhood or person offensive conduct."

The conviction was appealed to the state Court of Appeals, which held that "offensive conduct" means "behavior which has a tendency to provoke others to acts of violence or to in turn disturb the peace," and affirmed the conviction.

The Court, by a vote of 5-4 and per Justice John Marshall Harlan II, overturned the appellate court's ruling. "Absent a more particularized and compelling reason for its actions," it said, "the State may not, consistently with the First Amendment and Fourteenth Amendment, make the simple public display of this single four-letter expletive a criminal offense."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohen_v._California

A t-shirt with the word Fuck on it is NOT violation of any legal state law.

[TX-RAT]

220. A t-shirt with the word Fuck on it is NOT violation of any legal state law

You are 100% wrong, sure hope your not an attorney.

[mongo]

232. Look up the case and tell me I'm wrong again

I hope you're not an attorney...

[TX-RAT]

252. Look up TX penal code 42.01, then get back to me.

[mongo]

422. How about penal code 21.06?

§ 21.06. HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an
offense if he engages in deviate sexual intercourse with another
individual of the same sex.
(b) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.

So, do you think that this is illegal too? Just because a law is "on the books" doesn't mean that it can be legally enforced. Overturned laws stay "on the books" unless the legistlature specifically removes them.

Are you in law enforcement?

[TX-RAT]

427. Are you in law enforcement?

Are you a Homosexual?

If you can dodge the original subject i can too.

[mongo]

428. Which original argument?

Am I an attorney? No.

But I think I've shown pretty clearly that even if there is a law against wearing a shrt that says "fuck" on the books, it is unconstitutional and therefore unenforceable.

[TX-RAT]

430. And i said 42.01 is still enforced to this day.

[mongo]

431. And anyone who could afford to hire a decent attorney could get out of it

But leave it to Texas to enforce unconstitutional laws...

[Name removed]

445. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Realityhack]

459. That wasn't a dodge.

He made a valid point that unconstitutional laws are on the books and some idiots try to enforce them. Thats totaly on topic.

[Realityhack]

448. President / case law...

typicaly trumps a law that happens to still be sitting on the books.

Sorry but it does.

[shamanstar]

399. hooters is very offensive

of course a man wouldn't understand...
the simple existence of such a place is offensive- much more than the word fuck.

[mongo]

423. And it's a damn good thing that you do not have the right

to not be offended...

[Megahurtz]

168. That's because he'd rather see those hooters

than the word "fuck"!!!

:sarcasm:

:rofl:

[tx_dem41]

139. Who decides what's offensive? SouthWest Airlines does in this case.

Its their plane.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

221. Yes, they do

And restaurant owners and grocery store owners can tell me I can't come in their establishment without what THEY consider proper clothing because it is their place. I don't have to let you in my house if I don't like what you are wearing.

But if I'm just walking down the street, or in a public park or something like that, then I have a right to wear what I want. And bad taste is my problem. I can scream to the world I am an idiot if that is my desire.

Now a library can throw you out because you are noxiously stinky, I believe. And they are right.

And about the word "fuck." I use it myself, judiciously because I don't want to wear it out. But I don't think it is an inoffensive word. It is NOT just a poo-poo word to me, however, because it really doesn't just refer casually to sexual intercourse. It is, to me, a rather violent word and reduces sex to the very basest of acts. Which sex sometimes is...base.

Unless George Clooney is involved.

Grannie now rocks away, mumbling into her beer.

[tx_dem41]

225. Lol...love ya', Grannie! n/t

[slor]

125. Would it need to?

Those shirts are offensive to many people, but I bet you would not get booted from a plane for it. The people that complained about this shirt were asswipes for not averting their eyes.

[TX-RAT]

126. yes

[arwalden]

100. Idiots.

[sui generis]

118. ...

nt

[Lone_Star_Dem]

108. I know what I'll be wearing next time I fly Southwest now.

I have the T-Shirt in question here. I wear it when I know I'm only going to be around adults as it's printed. When there's a chance that kids may be present I pin a peace sign over the U.

I need to find a nice big oil rig pin to put over the U, but so far I haven't had any luck.

[Caoimhe]

124. hehe I found something for you

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PETITE-14kt-14k-GOLD-OIL-RIG-PUMP-CHARM-PENDANT-247_W0QQitemZ5038837048QQcategoryZ15138QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It might not be big enough to cover the U but people would get the point.

[satya]

121. Should I wear my "Buck Fush" t-shirt on my next SWA flight? n/t

[Caoimhe]

127. PLEASE DO

and let us know what happens!

[satya]

138. Might be interesting to see which way the wind's blowing.

I've never set up a poll here; this might be a fun one to try after I get back to my computer later this afternoon. Maybe I'll do it for my 1000th post.

[superconnected]

142. I say change the u to an o and wear the shirt everywhere.

People will get the point and still be offended - especailly rw people :). And, they can't ban you for wearing a dirty word.

Where do I get one.

[KyndCulture]

182. You can't say FOCKERS that's a trademark violation...

If you read down thread you'll see I sold her this shirt from my cafe press shop.



Here it is.

[bloom]

265. How about if you

turned the 'U' upside down.

Then it would say it and not say it at the same time.

[cascadiance]

341. Or used a zero with a slash through it instead of o

Make sure you are using a font that distinguishes clearly zeroes between O's...

[bloom]

343. It seems worthwhile

to have an alternative version that people could wear without worrying about getting kicked off a plane.

Plus I thought it was OK copyright-wise to use the titles of things like songs, movies.

Thinking about it - I like the asterisk option best. The intent would be the most clear.

[cascadiance]

345. But some people would miss the "movie" references with the asterisk...

If you point them to the "O" instead of "U" more directly, then you might avoid people saying that you can't have anything like

"FUCK BUSH" or "F*CK BUSH"

as they will interpret them as the same thing...

However if you can say "F0CK BUSH" (turn your fonts so that it points to a zero here), then you defeat both the copyright issue, and it would seem to point more to FOCK rather than FUCK, keeping the wearer more apt to be out of trouble with airlines than if you left it more nebulous and people more apt to assume it references FUCK...

FOCKAR would also perhaps do the same thing too.

I still want an "IMPEACH THE FOCKARS" parody t-shirt! That sounds cool!

[Amonester]

408. Or IMPEACH THE FAUXCOEURS (allright... too Frenchee...) ;-{ )

The 'X' ain't pronounced. LOL

OUI OUI OUI :P

OUATE DE PHOQUE! is :wtf:

[KyndCulture]

144. I just confirmed, this Tshirt came from MY STORE!!!!

Here is the Tshirt that the woman purchased... I checked my sales records against the location and yep, I'm almost positive I sold her this tshirt!!!!





I'm so proud! hahahahahahahahaha

[Caoimhe]

149. KUDOS!

Nice shirt btw

It isn't as if the lettering is huge.

I have seen BUCK FUSH tshirts where the letters were massive, and at first glance, well...

[KyndCulture]

153. I am absolutely LAUGHING MY ASS OFF!!!!

I doubled checked the credit cards and a J. Heasley in Oregon ordered this shirt 3 weeks ago... GOTTA be her husands name on the credit card.

This just made my day!

[TX-RAT]

161. That shirt can and will get you arrested in TX, and many other states.

Texas Penal Code 42.01

[KyndCulture]

164. Then don't buy it in Texas, jesus people. Freedom of speech.

I don't live in Texas!

[TX-RAT]

169. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

It about profane words, that violate states law.

[KyndCulture]

176. YOUR state laws... yawn.

she doesn't live there, and neither do I... so ain't nobody violating any laws.

[TX-RAT]

191. We're not the only ones.

I would recommend you check your own.

[mongo]

199. You might want to get an updated copy of your state laws

and cross check them against supreme court decisions.

In 1971 the supreme court struck down a conviction of a person arrested for wearing a "fuck the draft" t-shirt.

[TX-RAT]

201. Just seen it today.

Nothings changed.

[Realityhack]

444. Just because its on the books...

So? States often do not go rumeging though every law after each supreme court decision to see if it needs tweeking. Only the specific law that brought the case.

Fuck the draft
Meet the Fuckers (with picutes of bush)

Both come accross to me as political speach that would probobly be unconstitutional to infringe upon. Fuck You might be diffrent.

Unless there was another suppreme court case reversing the mentioned fuck the draft shirt decision (or something very close) thats the president.

[TX-RAT]

184. Might want to attach a disclaimer

Wearing this shirt in public, will get you arrested in many states, manufacturer not responsible, you know, that kind of thing.

[superconnected]

195. Have you considered changing the u to an *

or some other word than fuckers that looks like it.

or maybe an airplane/missle or us presidency symbol instead of the u.

Then people could get away with it.

[BiggJawn]

152. Remember when people used to get dressed up to fly?

No, damn it, it was NOT back in the Ford Tri-motor days...

I'm not bemoaning the lack of suits and ties, just the "travelling kit" that looks like it was grabbed off the bedroom floor or out of the laundry chute after one quick last romp down tonsil lane...

Jeebus, some of these people look like they're on their way to a 7:45AM college lecture...

[barb162]

159. yes; things have changed a bit, haven't they?

[BiggJawn]

203. Yeah, people dress better to go to WALMART...

Pretty bad anymore...
Pretty bad....

[democracyindanger]

167. Remember when people used to get meals on airplanes?

When even a two-hour flight merited a sandwich?

[BiggJawn]

197. I remember when you could SMOKE!

Sandwich......Mmmmmmm...
The AA Dallas-Honolulu flight had a nice meal. Real silverware, not plastique...

[barb162]

219. yeah I remember

[DemBones DemBones]

371. Yes, and I dressed a lot better for those

8 a.m. classes than most people dress to travel or eat in restaurants today!

[Qanisqineq]

172. I decided 5 years ago to never use SW again

My husband and I got married in Vegas and had to go back to our separate states (b/c of his job and my school) the next day. We asked for adjoining seats and they didn't give them to us and didn't really fucking care. And the lady next to me had the gall to say she wanted my seat so she could sit next to her husband. And my husband's neighboring seats wouldn't budge either. Maybe other lone passengers on the flight would have changed to let us sit together but the flight attendants wouldn't help.

So apparently lovely, unselfish people fly SW airlines. :sarcasm:

Plus, if you ever watch "Airplane" or "Airline" (?) on A&E, it is SW airlines. Somedays I wonder how they can want to be on TV and have potential customers view their behaviors.

[sui generis]

173. I am leaving, LEAVING I tell you.

too goddamn fucking much hot air in this thread. It's positively giving me the vapors.

And don't any one of you fuckers accuse me of being polite either.

}(

Oh the horror, the horror! A t-shirt with a poo poo word on it. The world is about to end. I must leave and have a mint julep. Or a turnip. Wherever shall I go, whatever shall I do?

OH MA GAWD. Does the word FUCK on my girdle make my ass look fat?



:evilgrin:

[KyndCulture]

175. LOL I agree!!!!

total lack of sense of humor going on... the shirt IS FUNNY and I don't give a fuck if it is profane...

I'd like them to prove to me that bush, cheney brownie and chertoff ARE NOT fuckers! Seems like the shirt i made is quite accurate!

:rofl:

[Megahurtz]

188. No please don't leave!

This is just getting too fun!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Moochy]

190. Take me with you!!

I been trying to leave this FUCKING thread for hours too!
}(

[Zhade]

362. A turnip julep?

NT!

[spacelady]

193. I am very glad this happened because it brought national attention to

the message--you can't buy great publicity like that. Oh and as for being offensive, why is rush limbaugh still spewing his schtick?

Kudos to KyndCulture--very clever play on words!

[superconnected]

196. So if I got one where bush is hanging from a noose

and it said war criminal justice, would that be offensive?

[Blue_Tires]

198. i'm kinda torn

because the shirt does fit the (legal) description of obscene, i guess...but i don't think the bush photo had anything to do about it...2 weeks ago, I was flying on delta with a stranger that had a "Worst President Ever" (with bush photo) shirt, and no one raised an eyebrow (i even complimented him on it

[lonestarnot]

213. Those scab fockers! Never fly on their crap, not that I would

have even before this incident!

[lonestarnot]

407. Damn on the fly read, thought I had read Am West! SW you freaks writing

letters!

[abbeyco]

244. The ranting on this is unbelievable

Within this thread, someone was nice enough to include the SWA Code of Carriage document.

So, go to the top of page 11 and it's addressed right there.

While some of you may not like it, and I'm not so sure I like it either, it's Southwest's choice...end of story.

If the woman wasn't smart enough to change or cover her shirt at their request, then that's her problem. Seems to me what she wanted was attention for her shirt and she damn well got it. So, she made her point, got a response and then should have covered the fucking thing up and told all her friends when she got off at her destination.

[Megahurtz]

245. In California.....

there was an art exhibit in the Department of Justice cafeteria recently,
and all of the Right-Wingers got their undies bunched over a certain artpiece........

At first AG Bill Lockyer said the painting wouldn't be taken down because
it was an expression of free speech.....

The Right-Wingers won, and it was removed.

I couldn't find a photo of the painting as it was in the cafeteria, but I am assuming that this one is possibly displayed at the artists home:

Photo and article: http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=15691



Now what are some people on DU going to say,
"At least it doesn't have the word fuck in it, or something?":eyes:

[Gregorian]

246. Noone is forcing anyone to look at that shirt.

Edit- See post 244. If the company has their own policy on this subject, then all of our arguments are worthless.

However...

This society ratchets down to the lowest common denominator of prudishness. Just because someone finds it offensive doesn't mean our entire society has to live by their standard.

It's the same as abortion, drugs, and probably a few other things.

If you don't like the music, turn off the radio. If you don't like the t-shirt, don't look at it.

Where does it end, I ask? When is society ever sanitized enough?

[LisaL]

255. I don't think I want to go around with my eyes closed.

:eyes:

[Selteri]

253. So much for freedom of expression. N/T

[Catchawave]

273. Can I rant here?

I know the shirt, saw it at the DC protest. Also saw several "fu*k the troops" posters, which are showing up on RW blogs and websites.

You bet, out of context and photo-shopped photos, but hopefully you all understand why the MSM didn't cover the peace rally !?!

Do we really need to use the F-word in our message?

[BrightKnight]

283. It is very offensive.

Sitting next to those fuckers for a few hours would really piss me off.

[KyndCulture]

285. buhahahahah best answer in the WHOLE mess here!

:rofl:

[Tight_rope]

286. Sticks and Stones!....I guess words do hurt!...n/t

[Megahurtz]

307. Holy Crap People!

:eyes: It's just a word on a shirt!
No one even verbally screamed it out loud!:eyes: (for those of you who are highly offended)

And if you want to protect your kids from this "naughty, nasty word" then good luck,
they're going to hear it in school anyway!

(Whoa, lot's of people must have been really offended by my regular swearing on this board)

I'm just FUCKING GLAD I can come to DU and be myself!:P

[Caoimhe]

310. nt?

still new here
what does nt or n/t mean?

[Catherine Vincent]

316. no text.

:hi:

[Caoimhe]

318. Thanks cat_girl25!!! NT

[Megahurtz]

317. nt or n/t means "no text"

and eom means "end of message"

[SharonRB]

313. Hey, that sounds like the shirt Token Lib wore to the March

It had pictures of Bush and Cheney and said "Meet the Fuckers." Everyone was stopping him to take pictures of it. He said he felt like a tourist attraction.

[xchrom]

325. not that i need another reason not to fly southwest,

but that gives me another one.

this is the 21st century -- grow the fuck up.

offended by the word ''fuck''?
i don't believe it
sorry, just don't.

[WinkyDink]

326. First of all, the movie title was disingenuous;

as IF we weren't supposed to think of what we all DID think of.
So the T-shirt was at least honest.

Having said that, I believe that a walking billboard with curse words is not something any private enterprise has to allow on its premises.

And airlines/planes are just that: private enterprises. You know, like "No shoes, no shirts, no service".

So too bad for that crude dame who thought she was oh, so hip.

[mudderfudder77]

327. Does not apply

1st Amendment & Freedom of Speech do not apply - those prevent the Government from limiting your rights. SWA is a private entity and does not act as an agent of the government. They may lay out whatever deceny rules they so choose. Just like many others have mentioned, a restaurant reserves the right to refuse service (no shoes, no shirt, no service) SWA spells out in the contract on the ticket they reserve the right to refuse service to you for whatever reason.

[dretceterini]

328. Doesn't change the fact

that they are still fuckers!

[savemefromdumbya]

332. what happens if on one given day ALL the passengers wear A/B teeshirts?

would be so funny. 200 passengers lining up at check in - in anti bush teeshirts. Would they cancel the flight?

[KyndCulture]

333. Now THAT would totally rock...

but I think someone has to complain... so if the people in line complained I bet they would!

[Caoimhe]

334. Let me know when and where

I have just the shirt to wear!

[savemefromdumbya]

337. LOL! nt

nt

[ocd liberal]

335. OMG, you read my mind

And think how lovely and polite we'd all be

[truth2power]

336. And that piece of filth, Cheney

can tell a congressman to go fuck himself.

I am definitely living in an interplanetary insane asylum! :evilfrown:

[nickgutierrez]

342. Meet the Fockars?

I don't get it. :shrug:

[Realityhack]

458. It wasn't meet the fockers...

it was Meet the Fuckers. and pictures of the admin.

Its a play on the movie title meet the fackers.

[Catt03]

347. I was surprised at this statement

Beth Harbin, Southwest Airlines, "We do get it occasionally. What someone is wearing, what someone is reading, what someone might be saying and it's very much a judgment call. But when other customers become concerned we do have to become involved in that and see what we can do to make everyone as comfortable as we can."

REading? Saying?

Southwest should get a grip

[Moochy]

355. Get a grip? how about loosen their grip

I think Southwest should loosen their grip, to be more precise. :)

[onenote]

367. this is the situation I think she is referring to

Woman travelling alone. Seat next to occupied by man. He pulls out Hustler or Penthouse and starts reading it, opening the fold out etc.

She is uncomfortable. Asks flight attendant who asks passenger if they could read something else.

Usually resolved without much fuss.

onenote

[Initech]

348. BWAHAHAHAHAHA... tight shirt!

More proof that Southwest Airlines SUCKS, though!

[AuntieM1957]

351. So, it's OK if they do it to US - but not if we acknowledge it? nt

[DiverDave]

354. Free SPEECH???, NOPE

I don't use that word around my kids, and I prefer that they dont see it.

How can ANYBODY defend this?

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

359. I say "Fuck SW Airlines." I'm with you, Diver Dave.

[Lorien]

361. 365 posts over a t-shirt??

why do the minor occurrences captivate DU so? Most services have the right to refuse service for just about any reason-boycott them...or not.This isn't worth getting one's knickers in a twist.

Now if we could just get 1/3 this number of posts on a thread about stopping the recent energy bill, highway bill, or extinction bill...

*sigh*

[YellowRubberDuckie]

363. Wow. We really have no 1st amendment rights anymore...

God, this place sucks.
Duckie

[wildflowergardener]

366. shirt on airlines

I think the person should have just turned their shirt inside out. I am offended enough to turn to another radio channel when Alex Bennett program is on, for example, when he starts to swear. But, in that case I am able to change the channel - a person can't do that on an airplane. I don't have children, but I can understand why a parent would be offended.

Why do people think it's just fine to be rude to other people - and I think wearing that shirt where people and their kids are forced to see it is rude. I think it would be fine if it was just a political T-shirt, but many people are offended by that word.

I was on an amtrak train recently, and a person was watching a TV without headphones and the conductor asked them to stop listeninig unless they had earphones. I don't see how that is much different - it was early in the morning, and people were trying to sleep. It was just rude.

Meg

[onenote]

368. self-delete

[podnoi]

364. What ever happened to WISDOM and TACT?

There are much more effective ways to make a point than to offend people by using language one knows will push their hot buttons. What Wisdom was there in this?

I am very progressive, but I also believe that part of what is destroying our country is the lack of civility, and that includes those who use foul language merely for the effect. "In your face" smack down liberal Pride is just the flip side of the same coin the arrogant right wing uses.

[onenote]

370. question for the "first amendment" absolutists

Here is a series of links to real t-shirts. I'd be curious to know whether the "first amendment" absolutists who are upset with SW Airlines for asking the women with the "fuckers" shirt to cover it would be equally outraged if one of these shirts was involved. Are they all equally okay? Are some not? What is the basis for the distinction? I'm not being snarky.

onenote



http://www.politicallyerectshirts.com/shirtpages/FUCK-HILLARY-God-knows-she-needs-it-T-shirt-Political-T-shirts.htm

http://www.wowfans.com/jimnorton/jn-rape. jpg

http://www.foulmouthshirts.com/designs/Attitude/pages/imagepages/I%27m%202%20drunk%202%20fuck%20How%20bout%20a%20BlowjobT-shirt.htm

http://www.foulmouthshirts.com/Pussy-t-shirts/Shaved%20Pussy%20T-shirt.htm

http://www.foulmouthshirts.com/New/Shirts/Theres-Nothing-Finer-Than-A-Fat-Womans-Vagina-T-shirt.htm

on edit: I didn't mean for the second shirt to actually display, so I put a space in url. To see it, remove the space before .jpg

onenote

[tokenlib]

373. Having worn the "Meet the Fuckers" shirt at the march.....

...I can really understand the comments on this thread. As much as I like the shirt (with Bush and Cheney on it)--I struggled with whether or not to wear it. Early in the day I had the "U" covered with a button--and thought that the right thing to do. But wearing a shirt to the march is like "preaching to the choir" or providing humorous relief to your fellow protestors. So I wore it and was happy that so many people enjoyed seeing it, but I still was uncomfortable when children were around.

However, I agree that the profanity is not acceptable on an airplane or in public settings where families and children are present. So I am not sure where the shirt will be worn in the future.. It is a bit of a dilemma for me...

[rodeodance]

374. petty is right

......Heasley, "There are bigger problems in the country, I can't believe people can be so petty."

Heasley boarded her flight Tuesday morning in Los Angeles, headed for Portland, Oregon with a stopover in Reno. But when Southwest Airlines employees asked her to cover her shirt, her stop over became a stop off her flight.

"I was told that basically that I had to cover my shirt, or I was told if I cover the shirt I can basically stay on the plane."

So she covered the shirt, but during a nap while passengers were boarding in Reno the cover came off. And Southwest employees insisted, change the shirt, or change flights. "I didn't feel that I should have to change my shirt, because we live in the United States, and it's freedom of speech and it was based on the move "The Fockers", and I didn't think it should have offended anyone."

But it did.

[Obamarama]

391. I'm ordering a "Meet The Fuckers" shirt so I can wear it in Grand Rapids..

Yup...I'm ordering it for the express purpose of wearing it out and about in Grand Rapids, MI (which is absolutely infested with right-wing, Christo-fascist Resmuglicans).

I want to taunt them into apoplexy.

[tokenlib]

394. That sounds like fun....

My kids found the shirt at Spencer Gifts in the mall--of all places.
As much as I don't want to offend families with kids--your plan is kind of appealing.

And my response to those mocking the importance of this thread is simply this... in a climate of free-speech "zones"wherein the Bush regime prefers to stifle dissent and even accurate reporting in the MSM--free speech is a very important issue. Our rights need to be defended--yet the question of limits in the interests of common decency needs to be considered.

[philb]

375. Was she kicked off because it was anti Bush or profane?

makes a difference

I see lots of interesting outfits and teashirt messages these days.
Is there a guideline I don't know about.
Do they just throw off; or ask to change shirt?

[onenote]

378. according to the story, they asked her to change the shirt

Actually, they first asked her to cover the shirt. She did, but didn't keep it covered so they asked her to change it. When she refused, she was ordered off.

onenote

[Geo55]

376. Whaaaa ! Whaaaaaa !

I wanna say what I want anywhere I want.....you people don't mean crap.
Whaaaaa !! I'm not gonna ! You can't make ME !

Some people never really make it past the "terrible two's"

[nvliberal]

380. Too bad, so sad.

The airline has rules against obscene t-shirts. The woman decided to defy those rules. Airline asks her to change her shirt, she refuses and goes elsewhere.

BFD.

Bernie Ward acts like it's a giant constitutional issue.

He can be so goddamned dense sometimes.

[GetTheRightVote]

379. What do you think, should we all get a copy of the shirt

and go around air ports ?? Maybe all Americans are terrist ??

:kick:

[Pepper32]

384. What the FUCK is wrong with that t-shirt?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Obamarama]

390. Memo to all the delicate Pollyannas who are siding with Southwest:

Quit sipping the freakin' Kool-Aid, and wake up and smell the FUCKing coffee.

This woman's first ammendment rights were infringed upon, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

The fact is, sometimes democracy is messy, and sometimes it makes people who don't truly understand what our constitution is, or understand how it's SUPPOSED to function to protect us, terribly uncomfortable.

I hope she pursues this with the ACLU.

[shamanstar]

405. patriot act got rid of messy 1st amendment

basically...
we dont have to worry about rights anymore.
"if you're not doing anything wrong, what are you worried about?"
/sarcasm off

[ozarkvet]

406. 1st Amendment

And all the protections of the Constitution, for that matter, apply only to government (state) action. That is, the 1st Amendment prevents only the government from censoring you.

Private citizens are free to censor people all they want on their property. This is why malls can kick PETA out from in front of the fur store, radio stations don't have to let you on the air, newspapers don't have to print your articles, etc.

And Southwest, assine or not, was legally entitled to do what it wants.

[rinsd]

424. memo to KzooDem...read your Constitution.

There is no right to transportation.

There is no restriction on private entities from enforcing what they consider decorum.

Free speech is not absolute and never has been.

[blueintenn]

433. No it wasn't.

What on earth does the First Amendment have to do with a private entity's right to maintain a standard of decency by prohibiting certain behaviors on their property? Especially when a contractual bond to that effect is established when buying the ticket.

Clue me in here.
BIT

[Caoimhe]

416. Yet another story but no link yet

Just heard this on my local news this morning. (KGW Newschannel 8 from Portland, Oregon) Still trying to find a link to it.

There is a guy with a waste disposal business in the Portland metro area. Instead of the typical HONEY WAGON type business name, he chose "SHIT HAPPENS" and that is emblazoned on both sides of his truck. Apparently, people are offended by it and they interviewed one woman in an SUV who said "As far as I know, this is the first time my child has ever even SEEN that word!" The owner said he'd been driving the truck for years without complaint, but suddenly people are offended by it.

Needless to say, I about died laughing, and it made me think of the tshirt deal.

People need to lighten up, that's for sure. And for the woman who said her child has never seen the word, LADY BURY YOUR HEAD A LITTLE FARTHER INTO THE SAND.. WE CAN STILL SEE YOUR TOES!

If I find a link I will post it here.

[nvliberal]

420. Yep, our "heroine"

plans to "cash in" on her newfound notoriety and file a "civil rights" lawsuit against the airline.

link

The ACLU is going to further sully its reputation when in fact the airline has written policies in place.

No case, dingbat.

[Megahurtz]

461. Instead SW should have kicked off all of those "goody-two-shoes" idiots

that boarded in Reno and had the gall to bitch about the shirt
because the woman who was wearing the shirt was on board first!:silly:

Make them take a FUCKING WALK!!!!!:P

[sakabatou]

429. I don't think it was the anti-bush part that got her kicked off

As many here say. I think it was a good move. A lot of kids re onboard in these flights, so I think it was a good move.

[ckramer]

432. Tell me you are joking

"no one from Southwest said anything about the shirt when she waited two hours near the gate at Los Angeles International Airport. And neither the pilot, nor other crew members, said anything when she boarded the aircraft, Heasley added.

After the plane stopped in Reno at noon Tuesday, she and her husband, Ron, moved to the front of the plane. Passengers began complaining about the T-shirt as they boarded."


Meet these Reno fockers!

[sakabatou]

464. Oooo...

>_< Note to self: READ ENTIRE ARTICLE BEFORE POSTING!

[Chovexani]

436. All this pearl clutching is fucking funny.

A good 80% of my t-shirts could be construed as offensive, but I'm smart and make sure they are obscure geek/fandom references that no one would get except people who don't find them offensive. :P

That "Hentai inside" shirt would get me in a lot of trouble otherwise. Not to mention all those filthy slash related shirts I have...oh man, am I lucky the pearl clutchers are completely ignorant of fandom.

[Caoimhe]

440. When you say pearl clutching...

I can't help but think of the monster Barbara Bush in the Astrodome. Sorry, hope you didn't just eat or anything. :puke:

[Megahurtz]

460. "Pearl clutching" hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

:rofl:That is fucking funny!!!

[cannabis_flower]

438. why couldn't they.....

just had her turn the shirt inside out there would be no problem.

[mudderfudder77]

439. Did you even read the article?

They did ask her, she did for a short period then removed the sweater and refused to cover the shirt.


Just a suggestion, try reading the entire article before posting.






edited: word sweater

[Caoimhe]

442. Welcome to DU cannabis_flower!

:hi:

[flaminbats]

449. ahhh..some well-earned publicity for SW Airlines

I remember being offended once by a Confederate flag on a passenger's T-shirt during an extremely long flight to Europe. Even worse I paid good money to sit with that racist, and he paid to sit next to me.

Those who cannot tolerate being around others in public just because they are different should try staying home!! Those who have the patience and temperament to be with people who are different should never have an airplane ticket stolen from them.

[McCamy Taylor]

456. Anyone who gets their panties in a twist over the word "fuck" is a twit.

There are mote important things to worry about than words. Like poverty and violence and bombs.

Passengers should be complaining to stewards about suspicious packages not words on T-shirts.

[MiniMe]

462. If they kicked her off because of the profanity, I could actually ......

understand it. I'm sure there were kids on the plane that didn't need to be seeing "The Fuckers". However, it sounds like they kicked her off because it was an anti-bush message, and the idiots actually admitted it. Thats an entirely different story.

I think the t-shirt is funny as hell, but I'm not quite sure I could bring myself to wear it in public.

[Catchawave]

463. ...and why the MSM didn't give the DC March

the live coverage it deserved. Lots of sensitive "free speech" posters and shirts. Where they wrong messages, no. Where they controversial, maybe. Is the MSM afraid of their corporate owners, yes.

Simple math, eh? :hi:

[Piperay]

466. She wanted a reaction

and she got it, you don't wear something like that without expecting some kind of flack. x(

[SlavesandBulldozers]

469. this isn't the headline to the actual article.

but nevermind that it made for great flames!

[Caoimhe]

488. You're correct!

Gold star?

Not many would have looked if it hadn't said "anti-bush". I probably should have typed it as "Woman kicked off SW Airlines flight for wearing offensive (happened to be anti Bush) shirt"

But, I am not convinced that the anti-Bush wasn't the impetus for the entire showdown. Misleading? Perhaps. Is it bad to discuss what the implications are when things like this happen? I don't think so. So, while I apologize for my "original spin", I have to say I admit I have enjoyed getting people's take on this. Good people can disagree.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

494. you're sick.

i like that about you.

:)

[The Animator]

470. Damn, I wish my cafepress site could get that kind of publicity.

Course, as a test, I wonder what would happened if we sent someone undercover in a profane ant-dem shirt. WWSWALD? (What would South West AirLines Do?)

You would be hard pressed to find a stronger advocate of free speech than I, however, there are certain situations that require a degree of restraint, and the willingness to compromise. Buisness are forced into these kind of situations everyday, customer # 1 has a dispute with customer # 2, in the place of buisness, and the representative of said buisness is forced to intervene. If the situation is not handled perfectly, (and by perfectly I mean the representative strikes a compromise in which both parties feel like they won.) The company is then forced to make a choice, and ends up pissing off at least one of the customers. Pissed off customers are always bad for buisness.

Did Southwest make a political statement by tossing this women off the plane? probably not.

Was Southwest trying to diffuse a difficult customer vs customer situation, with no clear solution? Yes.

The fact that this very thread, (on one of the most liberal message boards I have ever seen, mind you) has had so many back and forth pro vs con responses illustrates that there is no clear answer to this situation. Perhaps the fact that the shirts expresses a point of veiw we all agree with, (an Anti-Bush sentiment) is muddling our logic.

What if a customer walks into a busy kosher deli on a chilly New York winter day, and orders a sandwich. Sits down and starts eating alongside the other partons. Since the deli is heated, the customer takes off his heavy winter coat and relveals a large Swaztika on his shirt underneath. This being a kosher deli, several of the deli's other customers are Jewish, and are naturally offended by this new customer's shirt, amd complain to the deli's owner. The owner, informs the new customer of the situation and asks him to either put his coat back on, or flip his shirt inside out so that his other customers would not be offended.

Would you blame the buisness owner for kicking the customer out if he refused then?

The simple truth of the matter is that a private buisness is not interested in protecting the constitutional rights of its customers. It's only concern is what is good for buisness. I cannot speak for Southwest, I was not on the plane, I have not even read the article, but I can speculate that the decision maker for Southwest was weighing the inconveniencing of one politely un-cooperative passenger, vs. several bitchy passengers having an unpleasant fight experience and blaming Southwest for it's refusal to intervene.

The final decision probably just came down to, which party was more likely to cause Southwest more trouble. When it comes to causing trouble for service industires, nothing beats bitchy Republicans. Unfortunately for Southwest, this decision seems to have backfired.

[MyUncle]

472. "Fuck, shit, cunt, cock, asshole..." are not things I want my twin

9 year old girls reading on a tee shirt anywhere. Yeah, they'll grow up and hear/see it all but in the mean time, take your political profanity and flash it to those who you want to impress, NOT our kids or me for that matter.

I think giving her a reasonable option is fine. She is a gold digger looking for publicity and a meal ticket.

[Piperay]

473. I agree

and frankly I don't care to have to be stuck on a plane for hours with that kind of thing shoved in my face either. I am not a priss who is offended by bad language but I am offended by insensitivity from others who are so selfish and self-centered that they never give a thought to being insulting and impolite to others. and yeah what about the children (??) some people might not like their little kids to have to read obscenities on someone's shirt.

[survivor999]

478. She should sue the airline...

But I suppose they have the right to refuse service to anybody...

[MildyRules]

482. She'll lose if she sues

She doesn't have a case.

[wrathofkahn]

485. Yep.

I understand that the ACLU is taking this case now. They're going down in flames on this one. There's just no way in hell they're going to be able to get around the Conditions of Contract.

[zann725]

487. How absurd! Just ask her to put a jacket or sweater over it.

It's one thing when we censor what someone says, but when we censor their T-shirt or bumper sticker...censoring "thought bubbles" are next.

[tammywammy]

495. They did ask her

And at first she did, and then during the flight decided she didn't want to cover her shirt. Since she wouldn't cover up, when the plane landed she was kicked off.

[MadJohnShaft]

491. Wait a sec - do you really care if your kids see the F word?

i got a 5 and 7 year old, and while I wouldn't say it in front of them or tolerate them saying it - I don't recall being horribly scarred as a child because I heard the F word, I recall it being very, very funny.

As a parent now, at worse it would be an excuse to talk about how to decide if something is appropriate or not - a little life lesson they should learn anyway.

[Caoimhe]

493. I agree

It's one thing to yell FUCKER FUCKER FUCKER FUCKER in front of your children. It's quite another for someone to have a tshirt that says it. Your kids can't spend their life in a babyseat. At some point they have to realize that life doesn't revolve around them. I like your suggestion of making it into a lesson thing. "Yes, I see that word on the shirt. Yes that is a bad word. Do you think that lady has poor judgement for picking out her clothes? Would you or I wear that shirt? No way. Maybe we can read this book together instead of worrying about that word on that lady's shirt"

[Kralizec]

497. It's funny... I have resisted reading this thread for such a long time...

but I finally broke down after a few days, lol. Look , you all can argue about useless things. i don't have time to waste on arguing "bad words." Wow.

x(

[Caoimhe]

498. YET...

you couldn't resist posting

:toast:

[Kralizec]

501. got me there!! haha!

:hi: