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JackieO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 02:33 PM
Original message
Animal Rights Group Sneaks Onto Chicken Farms, Makes Video
Animal Rights Group Sneaks Onto Chicken Farms, Makes Video

Business Says Group Broke Laws, Endangered Animals

SUSQUEHANNA VALLEY, Pa. - An animal rights group based in Philadelphia has targeted a major egg supplier in the Susquehanna Valley. The group, called Hugs for Puppies, conducted an undercover investigation and then sent out a DVD and a press kit to media outlets, including News 8. On Your Side investigative reporter Susan Shapiro says it has raised concern about the group's tactics.

Long, low chicken houses dot the landscape in the Susquehanna Valley. An animal rights group wants the public to see what it considers the dirty secrets inside. "Obviously (you) can see very, very cramped conditions," says Chris Price of Hugs for Puppies of a video the group says it secretly taped at night inside Kreider Farms hen houses. Kreider is one of the largest egg producers in the state, selling to stores and restaurants.

The activists saw thousands of chickens crowded into wire "battery" cages they consider unsanitary and inhumane. "Each chicken has about half the size of a piece of copy paper to live their entire life. Their feathers are ripped off from their necks to push through the bars," said Lisa Levinson of Hugs for Puppies. "Because (they) stacked three cages upon each other, feces drops from one to the other."

"The smell is horrible, revolting from all the feces," Price said.

http://www.thewgalchannel.com/news/5058801/detail.html

Slideshow

Video




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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yep, chicken farming is pretty nasty
I guess the question is, given that most people are not vegetarians, and hence already accept that we raise animals specifically to kill and eat them (and eat their eggs), are these conditions outside of the ethical boundaries already set by the fact that we're voluntarily exploiting them in the first place.

I'm a non-vegetarian. I eat eggs, chicken, etc., etc. I'm ambivalent about this treatment, given that non-factory farming would significantly reduce the availability and raise the cost.
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Kashka-Kat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. cost of organic/ humane not THAT much...
Edited on Wed Oct-05-05 03:17 PM by Kashka-Kat
dont know about where you are, but a doz eggs from chickens raised more humanely & w/ organic feed can be had for about two or three $ per doz here... & meat about 2.50 on up per lb. no not talking about gourmet food stores but farmers markets direct from farmer and/or regular supermarkets in cities where there's enough consumer demand.

yes i've been unemployed at times & know that for some people the extra dollar is a lot- but for others of us--it's a choice we can make and i think is worth making... & thinking "can i not spend that extra dollar somewhere else in my life"... we have seem to have very little power in this world except where to spend our money ... cumulatively that can be some power at least...
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. and don't forget the massive agro subsidies, as well as the
negative externalities of chemicals and antibiotics and pollution and gods-only-know-what-else
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Kashka-Kat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #27
44. YES- and the eggs taste so much better !
Because the chickens are healthy and not fed toxic waste, the eggs taste like-- well, eggs... with great flavor, like we used to have in the 50s-60s growing up on farm. Thats gotta be worth a few extra cents in anybody's book. Same with the organic vegs and meats for that matter... they have FLAVOR.
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
62. AUSTRIA has BANNED the caging of egg laying chickens in just this manner.
They've also outlawed aesthetic dog mutilation.

Austria seems pretty progressive about animal's rights. Good for them.
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shockra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #62
66. Peter Singer has written that they're the most progressive.
In the editorial Un-American about Animals:

Nevertheless, it is not Britain but Austria that has the most advanced animal protection legislation. In May 2004, a proposed law banning the chicken ''battery cage" was put to a vote in the Austrian Parliament. It passed -- without a single member of Parliament opposing it. Austria has banned fur farming and prohibited the use of wild animals in circuses. It has also made it illegal to trade in living cats and dogs in stores and deems killing an animal for no good reason a criminal offense. Most important, every Austrian province must appoint an ''animal lawyer" who can initiate court procedures on behalf of animals.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4412070
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. My uncle raised chickens and eggs when
I was a kid. I spent a lot of time at his farm. He did not cage his chickens. They were free to run about and interact with each other. Although they were kept in long buildings and inside, they did have access to any juicy bugs that came inside. They were fed cracked corn, oats, barley, and other grains. I used to like to eat the nibble the grain, especially the oats. There were nest boxes, made of wood, with straw bedding where the chickens would roost at night and lay their eggs, and lights were always kept off at night. I think just about every egg and chicken farmer back then used the same method. It wasn't until the huge "factory" farms that things really started to get bad for the chickens.
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kostya Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. I think you are assuming that most people are even really aware
of the conditions in which their meat/egg/dairy products are produced. You may be ambivalent, but a lot more people would likely reduce their consumption if not curtail it entirely if they knew the truth of the cruelty of factory farm animal care.

And I for one do not measure the "cost" solely as a matter of the change in my pocket.

- K

:think:
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pushycat Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
47. Your ambivalence to the treatment of these chickens in return
for low cost and ready availability may prove to be a health issue in the long run of things. The produce from these unhappy, unhealthy, unfortunate creatures cannot reasonably be considered a high quality food.
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. and by "endangered animals" they mean "profits"
I believe the Great Dictator went after Hugs for Puppies previously for something innocent
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ecoalex Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Organic production is coming
Edited on Wed Oct-05-05 02:52 PM by ecoalex
Part of Organic conditions are no cages.As more farmers convert to organic prices will come down.

I raise chickens, meat, egg and hogs on ground alfalfa and open pollinated field corn, plus kelp. Nothing else.They are raised on concrete, and have access to an outside pen where they can dig in the dirt, eat dirt, and grass.The feed has no french frier oil, or added GMO soybean meal, or meat meal,like commercial feed, a totally vegan diet.My eggs are the same as the famous low cholestrol eggs; Eggland's Best.

High quality needen't cost an arm and a leg, just some new thinking.
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Kudos to you!
We have one of those nasty chicken farms a few miles away. Thankfully, it'd downwind.

I have six chickens that we keep for eggs. They are free range so the yolks are so orange and tasty but I've been giving them regular chicken feed. I've been trying to find organic chicken food and can't find it anywhere! One internet site had it but the shipping was actually more than the food!! Where can I get these ingredients you use for food and do you have a "recipe" for organic chicken food? I live in southern California and any suggestions would be appreciated.
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. See my post #12 - that's not new thinking.
:-) That's the "old" way.

I buy most of my chicken and eggs "organic." I also buy organically raised bison meat.

Nothing tastes quite like an organically raised chicken. Makes supermarket chicken seem tasteless.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
32. I have two chickens
that I keep for eggs and because I love watching them. I can't find organic feed either. I'd also love a recipe for a mix of grains that is appropriate for egg laying chickens. I know they need a certain percentage of protein etc...Mine are rhode island reds.
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Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
34. yay - keep up the good work
we need to return ag to agriCULTURE and get away from agribuisiness.
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JackieO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
43. yep
I believe the Great Dictator went after Hugs for Puppies previously for something innocent

Hugs for Puppies has totally been given the domestic terror treatment by homeland security goon squads over the last year. On three separate occasions that I know of doors have been broken down, houses raided, stuff stolen, activists and roommates illegally detained, no charges, no rights.

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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Some "factories" trim beaks, etc.
Corporate farming is destroying the environment and our health.

Whether it's pigs, cows, chickens, and now fish, I have essentially boycotted meat for many years now.

The media, again, plays a role in the lack of information the public has about this. In the Carolinas, private farming of pork has been all but eliminated due to the strongarm of corporate pork "factories". And since that has happened, the rivers in the area are polluted.

There is another problem associated with highly concentrated corporate animal farming that is quite bothersome. Our dependence upon few large corporate farms, versus dispersed communal farms, is that we have set ourselves up for failure. Failure of one, can affect many more. And the greater potential for disease. There are scenarios of disaster that are magnified by the concentrated type of farming that would be completely eliminated by returning to the saner types of farming of yesteryear. For example, when oil becomes expensive, or scarce, or when we are making a transition from one type of energy to another, such as we are in the beginning stages of doing now, we are much more vulnerable than if our farming practices were confined to local communal farms.

Independence is much more than a document in Washington. Petroleum has made us more dependent than we ever were. Petroleum has given us the power to concentrate, and create unnatural practices. It's time to bring it home.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. PETA ARE KOOKS! Oh, wait...
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. LOL...I think you forgot your *sarcasm* thingy :)
But, but, I agree, Peta is/are "kooks" but "fun" kooks, as compared to the government that's trying to poison us, not to mention, torture our food animals :( DUer's should "get it" by now, CEO's of factory farms and fast food industries don't sleep at night because of my beloved PETA team :grouphug: The DNC could learn something from them, ya think?...lol.
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. The killing puppies to make a point business . . .
Took all the fun out of PETA kookiness. They've always been (seen as) edgy and creepy, now they're just creepy.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Huh?
Killing puppies to make a point? Who did that?
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I thinks that's from a story
a month or two ago about a group who picked up dogs at shelters to "adopt" them out. It was discovered that they were euthanizing them instead. It supposedly was a local PETA group (?), but the PETA organization said it was not them and not their policy.
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tatertop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. PETA is a BIG organization. They do a lot of good work.
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Demmygirl9888 Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
64. True....
They do a lot of good work. However, like any organization out there, they have done some questionable things (throwing blood on people who are wearing fur coats).
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
40. Good parody of a far right talking point. It's good of you to
remind us of the efforts these folks will go to swift boat an effective progressive organization.
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. So this story has been debunked?
It WASN'T PETA employees who were arrested? I must have missed the retraction, can you point me to it?

Even if this was a rogue group not formally associated with PETA, PETA's been out of control for years and are a prime example of a group that does their cause more harm than good by their extremist actions.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. You never established the truth of your initial claim. Can't really
Edited on Thu Oct-06-05 09:22 AM by Karmadillo
see the point of attempting to debunk it until you make more of an effort.
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. OK here's the link to the original story . . .
http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=87943&ran=155298&tref=po

If it was debunked following this report, I can't google it out.

Whether PETA's view of ethical treatment is valid or not, the fact is that their public face is one of easily-dismissed extremism that ends up doing more harm than good to the cause of ethical treatment for animals.

Precisely because they are absolutist true believers who have decided that anyone who disagrees with them is evil.

Does that point of view sound familiar?
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JackieO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. This isn't a thread about PETA
There's enough PETA discussion on this site without derailing a thread that has nothing to do with them. Thanks.

Here's a current PETA thread if you want to get involved:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4982591
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. "Derail"?
Sorry, I didn't realize my own power.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. I don't know if that's been debunked, but
it doesn't seem to support your original claim that PETA was killing puppies to make a point. What point does the article show PETA trying to make? Two employees who act contrary to policy would seem to be thin evidence for such a sweeping generalization.

Why do you think PETA members think anyone who disagrees with them is evil? I'm not aware of that. What evidence are you referring to?

Perhaps it's the carnivores and fur wearers who are the real true believers. Certainly the view that billions of animals should needlessly suffer for matters of appetite and fashion is an extreme one. Perhaps that explains why so many who participate actively or passively in such cruelty feel the need to demonize PETA and willfully ignore all the good the organization has done.

http://www.peta.org/about/victories.asp
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. One aberration does not a policy make...
If this were a reoccurring thing they'd have a point.
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Kashka-Kat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. Oh no, besides killing puppies they also stomped on several apple pies
Edited on Thu Oct-06-05 07:23 PM by Kashka-Kat
and kicked Mom and blew their nose in the flag! They are evil and vile and nasty and so we shouldn't listen to them and their dangerous subversive thinking--we can't have any of that ethical treatment of animals!!

(insert sarc icon here)
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. What's dangerous about their thinking is not . . .
That animals should be treated ethically -- you'll get a majority yes on that notion -- but that PETA is extremist and absolutist and convinced that only they have the truth of the matter.

According to them anyone who doesn't agree is not only wrong, but evil. Frankly, I've had a bellyful of that attitude from wingnutariat.

Left wing radicals are not only just as obnoxious as right wing radicals, but reflect badly on things that I, for one, happen to hold dear.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's too bad the public doesn't realize this already!
This is not news to me at all. Every mass producer of animal products, wether it be eggs, chicken, beef, pork or in my opinion, veal, does the same kind of things!

That's the main attractions of "organic" meat and egg products.
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RayOfHope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. They secretly taped video at an egg facilty near where I live and
caught live chickens being unloaded off a conveyor belt into dumpsters. It was horrible.
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Ayesha Donating Member (587 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. Buy organic and free range!
That is the way to stop contributing to this sick "industry." I always buy the cage-free eggs - they are only slightly more expensive and I know no chickens were crammed into cages with their beaks cut off to make my omlette.
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. Very disgusting.
I do buy free-range eggs. A few months ago, I bought some chicks. They'll start laying any day now. They have over a half an acre to roam, though they prefer hanging by their hen house.

I just cannot imagine raising animals in those conditions. The people who do that aren't what I'd consider "farmers".
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Free range eggs aren't as easy as they sound.
Edited on Wed Oct-05-05 04:08 PM by TheWraith
Trust me, I know. Chickens like to lay their eggs pretty much wherever they happen to be, and they also like to hide their nests. Good luck, and have fun actually trying to find any of those eggs without fitting the chickens with GPS tracking harnesses. :)
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. GPS tracking harnesses! Great idea!
:rofl:

Now that the weather is turning, they seem to be spending much more time in their coop area, and in their hen house. Since they're just coming of age, I'm thinking the weather will be my best training device.

If nothing else, it gives the kids something to do in the late afternoon. Year-round easter egg hunt!
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Speaking of the weather, you should put a light in the coop.
Chickens egg-laying tendancies are most prolific with, I believe, about 14 hours of light per day. A good, bright light in the chicken coop will help them to keep laying through the winter, when normally they would slow down or stop. You can run the light on a simple outdoor electrical timer as sold at hardware stores.
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. Thank you
:hi:

Yep. I've been pestering the person around here that does that sort of thing around here (and it isn't me :) ). He keeps promising to get to it. Unfortunately, there isn't an outlet close enough.
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Lots of farms where I grew up,
Edited on Wed Oct-05-05 04:19 PM by FlaGranny
and, yes, chickens sometimes like to hide their nests, but every farm had their chickens for their own eggs, and most of the time the chickens were running free. Sometimes they would lay their eggs in their nest boxes and sometimes not. The kids living on the farms usually got to "hunt eggs" for the next day's breakfast and cakes. Sometimes those eggs contained little chicken embryos. What the eggs always contained, though, was the good nutrition from a chicken's natural diet (various bugs and worms), supplemented with some nice cracked corn and oats.
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. My kids tried raising some pet chickens
out behind their grandparents house. Unfortunately some critter got them, probably a fox.

When I was a kid myself, I had a pet chicken that I got from my uncle's farm. I raised her until she was close to full grown, right in the house. She was quite tame and fun to have. Then, somehow she got out and was hit by a car. I was so sad that my parents bought me a cat, which promptly got sick and died. After that I just took in strays and eventually had a dozen cats around.
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kostya Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. maybe a fox, but there are lots of predators that go for chickens,
including raccoons, skunks, cats, dogs, etc. You have to make a tight coop with some sort of wire/metal layer to really keep them out.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #37
77. You want to have a laugh
Edited on Sun Oct-09-05 12:39 PM by hedgehog
I was trying to figure out what was after my hens and I found a list of predators and their characteristic patterns. The last predator on the list was man!
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
42. 'a dozen cats around'.... LOL I'm half way there!!!
My retirement plan is to become the 'crazy cat lady on the hill'! We already own the a hill in CO. My hubby is a bit nervous.....
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
60. I have a pet chicken now- Henrietta
a lovely Araucana mix, who lays pale green eggs. She lives in a spacious cage outside and sleeps on her nesting box. When we are outside, we let her run around in the fenced yard. I have to say that we have few bugs. She also has a cage in the house where she stays when it is too hot outside. The inside cage has its own electric fan. She is a sweet pet, and loves to sit on my lap. I feed her treats to supplament her usual food.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. I've been to one of these fine establishments
They're all the same. Bit of a different situation, though. They were starving the birds. We took pics, as well.

We also made off with the birds.
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Caoimhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. good job!
It's like the movie "Chicken Run".. you are their savior :)
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
21. I'll give it the fifth rec and send to greatest.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. something like 90,000 chickens died in one of the California fires...
...last week. The fire started at the "factory." poor things.

and who can forget how the chinese took care of the "bird flu" problem when it last came up? Mass drowning, wasn't it?

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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
28. My great-uncle raised chickens (egg farm, really); I visited him
once or twice as a kid. Conditions weren't much different then, and I didn't think much about it until I was in college; then it bothered me. In reference to the pictures, I think it's unlikely PETA would choose the most flattering, or even the most representative pictures: not their style. If that's the worst they could find ....

Years later I would up farm-sitting. Had to feed the chickens and even clean their coop. They seemed happy with it--they had a choice of other roosts (I certainly didn't care where they roosted), and they stayed in the coop anyway. It was filthy. Nasty critters. And they pecked other, weaker or sick, chickens to death, eating them. It was also irritating to root and rummage all over the farm in search of eggs if I forgot to set out the fake eggs--not that the fake eggs always did the trick.

I've seen 'em free-range, and in cages. The conditions they're kept in no longer bother me. (Now, the goats I had to milk tended to be kept in better conditions, and would be seriously unhappy if their stalls were too dirty.)

Later in the year, the family (after returning from an abortive move attempt back to Texas) got a couple hundred rooster chicks--the egg farm had hatched thousands of chickens, and the roosters were dumped in large barrels to suffocate and be taken to the dump. That fall three of us had a massive rooster slaughter: chasing them down, cutting off their heads and letting them run until they drop, spewing blood everywhere; chopping off their feet, skinning and gutting them. Truly, a bloodbath.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Well, that was the most grotesque post I've read yet.
A masterpiece.
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lynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
58. I've seen my grandmother wring the head off -
- of a live chicken with one hand. She would grab it at the neck, lift and then twist her wrist which would fling the bird in a circle and the head was off.

Certainly a quick death, I doubt that the chicken had any clue what was coming. Two hours later and dinner was served.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. The neighbor guy used to have us kids pick up the head
As the body ran away, the head would be opening and closing the beak, as if screaming, and the eyes would focus for a while. I still have nightmares about decapitation.

Tucker
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #28
74. ah farm life...it isn't the "pretty" world people think it is...
my family owned a dairy farm and kept chickens and pigs...

What you describe is very familiar to me...
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
29. I knew it was bad, but this is worse than I thought
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
30. I've seen the inside of one of these
I don't eat factory "farm" eggs. Absolutely disgusting.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
35. 7 - 10 billion animals a year are killed in the US for our bloody palates,
most of them chickens. Male chicks are frequently tossed, live, into a grinder, since they do not lay eggs.

http://www.madcowboy.com/01_FactsAR.000.html

snip...

“Agribusiness companies tell us that animals in factory farms are ‘as well cared for as their own pet dog or cat.’ Nothing could be further from the truth. The life of an animal in a factory farm is characterized by acute deprivation, stress, and disease. Hundreds of millions of animals are forced to live in cages or crates just barely larger than their own bodies. While one species may be caged alone without any social contact, another species may be crowded so tightly together that they fall prey to stress-induced cannibalism. Cannibalism is particularly prevalent in the cramped confinement of hogs and laying hens. Unable to groom, stretch their legs, or even turn around, the victims of factory farms exist in a relentless state of distress.” (Humane Farming Association) (“The Dangers of Factory Farming,” Consumer Alert, Humane Farming Association) <02.08.03:07>


===

What we do to one, we do to all.
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Dastard Stepchild Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
38. ahhhh....
I like being vegan. The pleasure of guilt free dining. :)
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
41. I raised chickens, hogs, cattle...
...and goats on some purchased grain, but mostly supermarket waste, along with bakery waste. All of this was on a 10 acre "hobby farm" in the mid-90's.

When I say market waste, I mean I daily got 2-3 barrels of lettuce, apples.... whatever people eat from produce departments. Outdated milk, cottage cheese, yoghurt.. whatever.... FREE!

A huge bakery nearby would sell me a pickup w/canopy full of outdated bread and rolls for $5. Often they had "overbake", which was perfectly good bread that was baked but not ordered by a store.

My family ate a LOT of stuff that I brought home in the pickup.

Was it organic? Not really, but at least all my animals ate human-grade food.

My animals all lived in Paradise for every day but their last one, and I put them down myself with no muss or fuss. (No headless chickens running around.) The last thing they saw was a pile of lettuce.
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toad12 Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
48. I saw a show on PBS a couple of years ago
that showed chickens at a chicken farm. My husband and I went out the next day and bought a couple of chickens, we now have 9. I would encourage any one who can have them to get them. Not only do they produce great tasting healthy eggs (are are organic free-range) they eat lots of bugs and they are just fun to have around. We only have 1/2 an acre and it's more than enough room for them.

Here's my daughter with our chickens:

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hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #48
56. I raise chickens too! And milk goats. Are your buff ones cochins?

I sell a lot of eggs to people who are disturbed by the factory farm ones, and sell goat milk to a game farm and another lady. I love my animals. I love my goats but I always tell my wife, just for sheer utility and enjoyment, if I had to get rid of all but 2 species the kitties and the chickens would stay. I have a donkey too, good dem I am ;-)
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. I raised little chicks a long time ago.
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toad12 Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #56
68. They are Buff Orpington's
I wish we had room for more animals, I'd like to get a goat. With these gas prices a horse would be nice to have also. There is a bakery in Vermont that has started doing deliveries in a horse and buggy.
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hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #68
72. I used to have some Buff Orphingtons but I wasn't impressed with them

They dropped off really fast in egg production and many died early. I have six and eight year old chickens. Maybe it was just the strain of them I had.

My best hens have been Aracuana's and the hybrid egg layers the Red and Black Stars, those lay huge dark eggs and are super tame. If we have a big party they come down and hang out with our guests and hope they drop food. I have also had great success with barred rocks.

Goats are great but a major commitment. You have to milk them twice a day for 10 months a year. Goat milk is great though, and I love making cheese, yogurt and kefir.
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JudyM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
49. These conditions are revolting. We need to speak up!!
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
61. Please view the following link: http://www.wegmanscruelty.com/
If you can stomach the intolerance, please view the download available at:

http://www.wegmanscruelty.com/

Please cirrulate widely, especially if you are a "Tri-State" resident.
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NIGHT TRIPPER Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
65. VEGAN --no eggs no milk -
i can't stand it when animals are mistreated
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #65
67. My wife is vegan
I'm vegetarian (love the cheese).

But she has a great point about animal products. It is not just the consumption of animal muscle that produces horrific scenarios for animals, but it is also the production of food from animals such as eggs and milk. These animals are not treated well and live in appalling conditions.

Perhaps she is correct when she says that our world would be a much better place if everyone went vegan.

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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. but my chicken is not mistreated!
in fact she is sitting in my lap right now! (it does make typing difficult...) and she lays wonderful eggs for which I always thank her.

she is a spoiled pet and gets treats of fruit, vegies and cheese, and in the spring I give her worms when I am digging in the garden
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NIGHT TRIPPER Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. that is CUTE !!!!!-if everyone were so kind
the world would be a better place!!!
Give your chicken a kiss and a pat for me!!!
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hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #71
73. People buy eggs from me because they know they are not mistreated.

You have to give people an option.
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really annoyed Donating Member (650 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
70. We should treat animals more humanely....
Edited on Fri Oct-07-05 09:36 PM by really annoyed
But we can't use PETA for that objective.

Fanaticism isn't going to solve anything... And you are not going to get the general public (the majority being meat-eaters) on your side either.

We need to face up to facts here and stop being so idealistic about PETA.

Vegans also need to give up on the fantasy that we'll live in a world of treating animals with human ideals. It's not going to happen.

I eat meat, and I'm not going to apologize for it.
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #70
75. and some people have special diets
that require small quantities of "high-quality" protein not found in vegetable sources. Hubby is in renal failure, and high potassium foods, like beans, are right off his list of foods. People on anti-depressants should also have a larger quantity of protein to make the meds work right, and vege sources don't always cut it.

We should treat our food with more respect, whether from animal or plant sources. I am with the Aboriginal peoples- I like to thank the animal or plant for providing me sustenance.
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NIGHT TRIPPER Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. higher technology makes the killing of animals obsolete and reprehensible
If we are still living from the killing fields it's because we LIKE it.
Blood is addictive--in all senses of the word--from food to war---

Your post sounds absolutely ridiculous!--"special"diets? isn't that what church lady used to say on SNL?--well that's "special"!!!
Animals are not "foods"--
People can get "high quality protein" from a vast array of sources these days.
The current and past inhumane treatment and the unnecessary killing will have serious sociological repercussions in the future-
--In a world of Six Billion the rules have changed-
--Our future as a species and our ultimate survival on this planet depends on our development of one thing and one thing exclusively(everything else will follow)--and that one thing is compassion
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YouthInAsia Donating Member (806 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
78. they really need to stay away from chickens. What they are doing is
horrible, but the risk of getting bird flu and spreading it throughout the country is tantamount.
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American liberal Donating Member (915 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
79. thanks for posting this
I'm on a food plan that requires me to eat more protein in the form of eggs and meat. I have made a conscious decision to pay about $2.50/dozen to purchase eggs that come from free-range chickens that were not pumped full of chemicals and antibiotics. Seeing these horrific images makes me feel that much better about making this decision. And, as somebody else mentioned, organic, free-range eggs quite simply TASTE better! An extra 75 cents to $1 a dozen does my conscience good. It's worth every penny.

Peace,
AL
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