Teachers testify on refusal to promote intelligent design

[Judi Lynn]

Posted on Fri, Oct. 07, 2005

Teachers testify on refusal to promote intelligent design

Two Dover High School teachers said it would be unethical to present the idea in science classrooms.

By Amy Worden
Inquirer Staff Writer

HARRISBURG - Dover High School science teachers were so outraged by a decision to introduce what they said was Bible-based creationism into biology class that they refused to read a mandatory statement to their students promoting the idea, according to two science faculty members testifying in a federal trial over the teaching of evolution.

The teachers said the curriculum change approved last year required that students be presented with intelligent design as an alternative to Darwin's theory of evolution. They said it would violate professional ethics to teach intelligent design, which posits that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by an intelligent being, in a science classroom.

"I felt it was too close to creationism to be taught," said biology teacher Jennifer Miller.

Bertha Spahr, the senior member of the school's science faculty, said the board's decision was "railroaded" through without consulting the faculty or other experts and put teachers in the untenable position.
(snip/...)

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/states/pennsylvania/12839967.htm

[Hobarticus]

1. "Inherit the Wind", the sequel...

Get me George Clooney on the line.

[sasha031]

3. this is so nuts

American students are already so behind in the sciences compared to China, we must be the laughing stock of the world.

[QuettaKid]

15. uhm, we ARE the laughingstock of the world

ever spend any time on other boards beside's DU? I frequent a few others that have a broaderbased international appeal......they are laughing and it ain't pretty.

[wryter2000]

31. Ye gods

I've been flashing back to Nixon/Vietnam/Watergate for years now. Now I have to flash back to 1925? I'm not old enough.

[redwitch]

2. Last night at our high school's open house

My son's biology teacher was asked if evolution was being taught as only one theory- the implication was that this mother wanted to make sure other theories were being taught as well. Teacher sidestepped nicely because of the way the question was asked. I was floored. Upstate NY here. I know that they are not teaching creationism or intelligent design but I was troubled that this woman would even bring it up.

[havocmom]

7. We might wanna become well versed in creation myths from many cultures

and inquire of parents like that which ones we will and won't expose students too. And then ask if those who subscribe to myths the parents don't approve of might not consider failure to include them as some sort of persecution or discrimination.

The narcissist behavior of Judeo-Christian Creationists needs to be confronted head on. There ARE other belief systems out there. If we have to include their particular beliefs in science classes, we have to include EVERYBODY's beliefs.

[redwitch]

11. An excellent point

There are some great creation myths from native Americans involving giant turtles and talking bears that should be included. Why not add comparative world religions to the curriculum and leave the science classrooms alone?

[Sequoia]

14. And in the North West, Ravens!

There was a great children's book I would read to my daughter about how the sun came to earth. A madien went to draw water from the river and the raven turned himself into a seed or something and got in the water that she drank and she had a son. The people were so in love with this baby and let him do pretty much what he wanted. He went ga ga toddling over to the box where the sun was kept, picked up the sun, turned in a raven and flying up into the air flung it in the sky and the whole earth had the sun now.

Poor mom though, losing her son that way. I think we should introduce all cultures, Greek, Norse myths et al. They are so very interesting and make hollywood movies dull by comparison.

[tblue37]

24. What about the marvelous Hopi

creation myth? The People crawl up from the underground through a hole in the ground. Let's have that one is science classes. If fundies argue, we can say subways are too complex to be explained any other way. Obviously the first subway designers had a supernatural model to work from.

[kath]

54. And what about the Flying Spaghetti Monster? There's just as much evidence

for His Noodliness as there is for Genesis or any of the other creation myths...

[ihelpu2see]

16. No myths belong in a SCIENCE CLASS... Darwins Theory is not a myth

and time and time again Evolution is proven by genetics and by observations in the field.

[havocmom]

23. That's my point. ALL myths or no myths

And we need to pound that into a lot of thick skulls surrounding some pretty narrowminded people who think their truth/reality is the only truth/reality.

[wryter2000]

32. You're right

But other creation myths might make good talking points in School Board meetings where Creationism is brought up.

[Overseas]

18. Excellent idea !! n/t

[Tesha]

21. "It's turtles all the way down, young man!" (NT)

[redwitch]

22. In the words of Ember Swift's "Goldilocks":

"Fairytales will fuck you up!"

[Trajan]

46. Excellent solution ...

Much like the refutation of Pascal's Wager; it blows away arguments FOR a specific theology by providing the rationale that an infinite number of theologies are just as valid ....

Trust me: Christians would be quite offended to know their children were being taught the Hindu creation myth of Purusha. ....

Thousand-headed Purusha, thousand-eyed, thousand-footed he, having pervaded the earth on all sides, still extends ten fingers beyond it.

Purusha alone is all this—whatever has been and whatever is going to be. Further, he is the lord of immortality and also of what grows on account of food.

Such is his greatness; greater, indeed, than this is Purusha. All creatures constitute but one quarter of him, his three-quarters are the immortal in the heaven.

With his three-quarters did Purusha rise up; one quarter of him again remains here. With it did he variously spread out on all sides over what eats and what eats not.

From him was Viraj born, from Viraj evolved Purusha. He, being born, projected himself behind the earth as also before it.

When the gods performed the sacrifice with Purusha as the oblation, then the spring was its clarified butter, the summer the sacrificial fuel, and the autumn the oblation.

The sacrificial victim, namely, Purusha, born at the very beginning, they sprinkled with sacred water upon the sacrificial grass. With him as oblation the gods performed the sacrifice, and also the Sadhyas and the rishis .

From that wholly offered sacrificial oblation were born the verses and the sacred chants; from it were born the meters; the sacrificial formula was born from it.

From it horses were born and also those animals who have double rows of teeth; cows were born from it, from it were born goats and sheep.

When they divided Purusha, in how many different portions did they arrange him? What became of his mouth, what of his two arms? What were his two thighs and his two feet called?

His mouth became the brahman; his two arms were made into the rajanya; his two thighs the vaishyas; from his two feet the shudra was born.

The moon was born from the mind, from the eye the sun was born; from the mouth Indra and Agni, from the breath the wind was born.

From the navel was the atmosphere created, from the head the heaven issued forth; from the two feet was born the earth and the quarters from the ear. Thus did they fashion the worlds.

Seven were the enclosing sticks in this sacrifice, thrice seven were the fire-sticks made, when the gods, performing the sacrifice, bound down Purusha, the sacrificial victim.

With this sacrificial oblation did the gods offer the sacrifice. These were the first norms of sacrifice. These greatnesses reached to the sky wherein live the ancient Sadhyas and gods.



Hey .... Its as good as Genesis ....

[ismnotwasm]

56. In fact,

Doesn't that guy Atlas hold the world on his shouders? I forget what HE stands on tho'.

[DBoon]

9. what do you expect with all the creationist propaganda around?

Her preacher probably tells her that anyone who believes in science will burn in hell forever.

Even in the most liberal, bluest areas, there are many evangelical radio and tv stations peddling this nonsense.

[Hobarticus]

12. Teach your kids your backwoods mythology at home!

All you educators and parents out there, you have my sympathies. It must be nuts.

[OldCurmudgeon]

19. "maybe we'll get to it..."

"maybe we'll get to it, if we have time. We're awfully busy with 'flat earth' vs. 'round earth' and 'geo-centrism' vs. 'heliocentrism', you know. There's only so much time in the school year, and those darn epicycles take up a lot of time."

[Tesha]

20. "Well of course it's being taught as only a theory!"

"Well of course it's being taught as only a theory!" says the teacher,
silently adding "but you have no idea what a *THEORY* is, you stupid
fundamentalist twit!"

"It's a shame you don't go test the *THEORY* of gravitation by jumping
off the Empire State Building" she didn't go on to add.

Tesha

[markbark]

25. Point of Order...

Whilst Evolution may be a theory, Gravitation is a Law -- 4.9 m/(s^2) (on Earth, anyway) :)

Pedantically yours,

--MAB

[Tesha]

27. (That's why I said "gravitation")

No, "gravitation" is only a theory, and a pretty sad one at that.
We have no real idea how it works (e.g., the search for the
"graviton" and "gravity waves" continues) although we do have
some useful equations that describe its effects (as you pointed
out).

Tesha

[aePrime]

45. The law of gravity refers to Newton's equations

not gravity itself. It's 9.8 m/s^2, by the way.

Of course, Newton's equations don't hold up outside of our little human frame of mind.

Gravity itself is a theory, general relativity being the most successful theory on gravitation to date.

[Toots]

48. They also teach Nuclear Theory and Theory of Gravity

and a few more scientific theories but hopefully not religion. It is fine to teach about religion but creationism or ID is religion.

[9119495]

4. It's simple. Pull out the Enuma Elish--an old Mesopotamian story

of creation and teach that for a week. Then move onto the Norse Sagas of Viking myths. By week five, conservative Christians will be begging people to just cover evolution. If not, week 9 sacrifice a rooster like the Romans used to for the purposes of telling the future. Who's with me?

[slackmaster]

5. Nice to see some teachers with ovaries

:toast:

[cloudythescribbler]

6. who ever gave the right to the schoolboard to mandate what teachers teach?

Could they tell social studies teachers they have to teach about Abu Ghraib, or about the media lockdown after the election of 2004 or whatever the local government pleases?

You can be damn sure that if progressives ever used discretionary power over school boards that way, there would be hell to pay

[yellowcanine]

8. My thoughts exactly. School boards should hire good administrators

and teachers and give them the tools they need. That should be IT. Curriculum decisions should be made by educators, not politicians.

[yorkiemommie1]

10. our school board kicked Planned Parenthood out of the schools

which is why i am asking lots of questions of the folks running for school board here.

[sendero]

13. All "creationism" proves..

... is the fallacy of the concept of bibical inerrancy.

[Sin]

17. Look at the new ID science books lol.

If we let them get there hooks in any deeper they may try to publish science books that look like this. hehe :)

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5001/5001_01.asp

They want there faith so unshakable that they need to push science back to O id say the 10th century just so there wont be any cracks in it. and people will be so stupid they will follow and believe anything.

[yellowcanine]

28. Hey, that tract has the man/dino footprints! I thought even Hovind had

admitted those were bogus. Now I need to go check!

[VegasWolf]

26. Intelligent Design -- Creationism's latest evolution! nt

[Zhade]

29. Hey, you stupid IDers:

IT.

IS.

NOT.

SCIENCE.

Get that through your ignorant skulls!

[Dudley_DUright]

30. As a college level science educator, I can't imagine how much

I would resent some IDiot telling me how to teach my science courses. Bravo to the Dover Two. Take a bow Jennifer and Bertha. :applause:

[wryter2000]

33. Ditto that

:applause:

And I'll bet Americans United for Separation of Church and State will be in the courtroom with them.

[Zhade]

35. "IDiots" - that's perfect.

I shall henceforth refer to anyone who posits that ID is science as such.

[Dudley_DUright]

38. It is good, but I can't take credit for it

I saw it first used right here on DU. I wish I could remember which DUer I should be giving credit to, but alas, the absent minded professor syndrome has manifested itself once again. ;-)

[Zhade]

39. Do you have any Flubber on you?

:D

[Dudley_DUright]

40. Sorry, fresh out

Could I interest you in some dark matter?

[TygrBright]

34. Does this mean they won't teach about how the Flying Spaghetti Monster...

...created the world?

He's gonna be PISSED...

ironically,
Bright

[Zhade]

37. He also created every other religion. He told me so.

You can't prove He didn't!

:rofl:

[Pacifist Patriot]

41. Ahoy matey.

[Zhade]

43. Yar!

NT!

[Chovexani]

55. Ramen. (n/t)

[wryter2000]

36. Should public schools teach religion in science classes?

www.au.org

"Should public schools teach religion in science classes?

"The U.S. Constitution says no!

"An important case challenging the teaching of “intelligent design” creationism in public schools gets under way Sept. 26 in federal district court in Harrisburg, Pa. The lawsuit, sponsored by Americans United for Separation of Church and State and its allies, is the first of its kind. It will set an important precedent blocking the Religious Right’s crusade to force a particular form of religion into the science curriculum.

"Kitzmiller v. Dover challenges a decision by the Dover, Pa., School Board to promote intelligent design in the classroom and undermine the teaching of evolution. Attorneys challenging the school policy argue that intelligent design is a religious concept, not science, and it is intended to promote specific sectarian beliefs. Plaintiffs in the case include an array of parents who come from various religious and philosophical backgrounds."

[Infomaniac]

42. Off on a tangent here

But I would hope colleges and universities would start to assign lower admission scores to students who attend public schools that do not provide a solid science curriculum. Once people hear that this ID BS lessens their kid's chances of getting into a desirable college is when this debate starts getting really interesting. I think local turn-out for school board elections is something like 25%. Imagine the turnout if your local school district's policies lessen post-secondary opportunities. Housing values, which are tied somewhat to the local school district's quality, will take a hit as non-Fundie parents move to local private schools or to another school district. People would definitely vote in favor of increasing their house value over any bogus creationist nonsense.

[Pacifist Patriot]

44. Hmmm...excellent point.

It makes sense to me. If I had to choose between the admission of two students to a science program I think I would have to give weight to how ID and evolution are handled in their relative school systems.

Of course, I might be inclined to try to "save" the student from the idiotic school board but that's just me.

You have a very good point.

[VegasWolf]

47. We need to demand that schools teach Science in religious classes! nt

[hellbound-liberal]

49. I can't wait until we get to teach how the miracle of Jesus

is celebrated by honoring a giant rabbit who visits all of the good children of the world and leaves them hard-boiled eggs and chocolates!

[Zhade]

50. Or how the story of the alleged Jesus mirrors so many other myths.

I'm thinking of Mithra, in particular.

[Solon]

51. Also teach them in school that the Rabbit(Hare)...

is a fertility symbol for the Goddess Eostre, who also contributed the name, plus the date is no coincidence either. We also get to teach them exactly what fertility means in this context too. ;) That'll make the Fundies head spin. :)

[dkofos]

52. Good for them

Teach facts not BS

[zanne]

53. We're officially "backward" now

And we're not even quaint or interesting like most backward countries. We've chosen ignorance.